Ojo and Their Little Friend - ...and Their Forgetful Friend

[@aGoshDarnTravesty]

The laziest of Amnesiac abilities: "DIY. Your guesses are always warm or hot, and become true. When you guess a complete and functional ability, you get a bingo."

[@heylolp9]

Saw a Homebrew rule on a No Roles Barred script The Tom You decide your ability, the ST may balance it basically walks into that ball park just without inherent certainty

[@falsnamae3511]

This would be a Quantum-variant Clocktower Amne ability, almost by perfect design. Quantum-lock Amne by asking amne clarification, but you're still quantum in what ability you have, but the storyteller must answer your question in the affirmative if possible in a Quantum script.

[@TheMoosle1]

Alternative: Night one choose a player. Whenever you guess your ability, your ability will become what you have guessed. When asking a question, the dm makes your question true. You can never bingo but will always get very warm

[@ElusiveEel]

@@TheMoosle1 that one's just impossible

[@TheMoosle1]

@@ElusiveEel firstly, did ya take 9 months to confirm that, secondly it wasnt like I expected it to happen, but sure, im sorry for commenting

[@q-tuber7034]

So impressed by the level of play all around the board (including Jams, game-solving undercover Cannibal, … not getting arrested by TSA).

[@q-tuber7034]

Richie: “I drank with Reznora last night.” Kat: “ok, that’s good.” Me, shaking tablet: No Kat, that’s not good! Rez was confirming you!

[@matroqueta6825]

Now that Sam mentions it, "All minions think they are a different minion." would be a really fun Amnesiac ability in the right situation and with the right script.

[@confusion3773]

How would the Amnesiac guess that though, that's the problem I got because it's a cool ability but practically unguessable

[@lukas-lr6zt]

​@@confusion3773I mean, it is helpful. It doesn't matter if they guess it or not.

[@AUMOTmusic]

​​@@lukas-lr6ztin terms of making the game fun for the Amne (and the evil team) it is helpful. Making the ability guessable gives the Amne something active to do as a player and it gives evil an opportunity to play around it.

[@RavenGlenn]

​@@lukas-lr6zt It does matter. It's a key part of the Amnesiac ability to guess each night and try to figure out what they do so they can properly make use of it. This would be impossible for them to ever learn or make practical usage of.

[@ZekeBittersweet]

I think a good fix for this is on the first night informing the Amne that they have a set-up ability, or if you want to get less specific, tell them it's a passive ability. That cuts down the guesses they have to make, while still giving them some information to use if they don't guess the ability.

[@shavranotheferanox7809]

Interesting idea for amni ability: each night* you learn who died, if you guess their role correctly, they dont die If that is too easy to figure out then you could do: each night* you learn which role died, if you correctly guess who that is, they dont die

[@BloodontheClocktower]

This is a great Amnesiac ability. It's simple, powerful, but difficult to guess. - Ben

[@alchemicpink2392]

I'm gonna use that second one

[@whocares2277]

@@BloodontheClocktower How would you run it? If you tell them "Bob. Please pick a role" then picking their role (if known) is a pretty obvious option. You either get it right and (likely) get no night kill as visible result, or you get it wrong and learn that you get to know the demon kills as part of the ability. Same for the other option. I think either way it's not too hard to guess with single-kill scripts. It's more difficult when multiple night deaths are common.

[@ZekeBittersweet]

​@@whocares2277 I think it could work well on a script where there are a lot of high stakes in revealing your role, such as any madness related characters, Fang Gu + Outsiders, Damsel, Choirboy, very powerful roles, etc. If more people are lying then you really have to get their trust or make particularly informed guesses

[@MordredMorghul]

@@whocares2277 I would not say "please pick a role" and instead say something like "you learn [Name of a player that demon killed that night], What would you like to do?" That way they know enough to know they shouldn't just leave the conversation, but not know exactly what they are supposed to do.

[@Whopperle]

Makes sense that the lil monster doesn't get drunk. Would be underage drinking otherwise.

[@miguel7888]

Spoilers. "Don't worry guys, the good team is not out of the running since the Amnesiac is basically an Empath and a Tea Lady" *Amnesiac turns evil*

[@aquietdarkness]

And then "it's fine, we can always kill the evil amne" *Proceeds to hold the baby for the rest of the game

[@SigmaJump]

Makes me wonder if there's a possible Amnesiac ability (or heck, a homebrew or something) with a Poppy Grower-like "The Evil team know each other, but all think they are the same role."

[@JoeySoul]

If somebody wanted to make that an Amnesiac ability for a game they could.

[@omegonchris]

Tricky to do in person

[@SharienGaming]

how about "minions think they are good characters, but they are not"? XD

[@23Zakira]

​@@SharienGamingSo Marionette?

[@Benusr]

​@@23ZakiraI assume they wouldn't be beside their demon...

[@evaos12]

"What is going on!?" -Malakai Samantha is evil is what's going on! How is she getting away with this?!

[@nsnick199]

Nice solve at the end there by Jams

[@stevenokeefe2681]

3 minutes in and I’m laughing. “You can tell this was made in Sheffield.”

[@altrivotzck6565]

My favorite part was figuring out in the middle of the game that, apparently, Sam and Richie just went to eachother and simultaneously claimed the other's role on the first day.

[@CrystalblueMage]

Haha, somehow Kat isn't lying right away - she really is the grandmother of a "Tealady"

[@MrCole308]

I see Ben, I click

[@VivBrodock]

Amnesiac: [+three pixies] Each Night* Choose a player, if you choose a pixie and they are still mad, they gain the ability of the character they are mad about.

[@DragonTuba5159]

You should make a game with an atheist and an amnesiac ability is that they chose who dies

[@nregames8447]

Love it! They might get suspicious if everyone they choose dies though

[@eggstraw]

I can’t for the life of me remember which channel it was on, but I distinctly remember a lil monsta game where an amne was told to choose a sequence of numbers that use the all of the numbers from 1 to 12 once and that sequence determined deaths and they had to figure out that their ability was determining the order of night deaths and get the baby to safety I also think the amne was evil in that situation. Patters has also run an atheist game with a lunatic but accidentally gave the lunatic the lunatic token so he had to get their seen minion to choose lunatic kills and made a deal with the seen minions that if they could convince the lunatic that they’re actually the demon they win which isn’t exactly an amne choosing deaths but it’s case of a good player who is in charge of deaths.

[@AlphaAxle]

⁠​⁠​⁠@@eggstrawthe amne game you are remembering was a Patters game

[@Dragoninja26]

@@eggstraw yes that was a bounty hunter turned evil amne, and it was a bit different from what you said, 1-12 was used on grim to note the order, but what happened was on the first night the amne got to see the grim, and then picked all players in whatever order they wished And if you've seen an amazing amne game on youtube and can't remember where it was, patters is always a safe bet, fun atheist games could be patters but I don't think he has as many of those on his channel. Of course safe bet doesn't mean you'll always be right, but if you have to guess - that's your best chance.

[@jakubgorka1165]

Your beer choice for the day was the only thing that made me remember I already watched this game 😂

[@vaultdweller64]

This was a very fun balancing act to watch

[@ValHyde72]

This is the only game ive watched that I think I would have been actually pissed to have been playing in it

[@kylelake5848]

Imagine an amnesiac "pick a player. your first question will always land a warm, and your second will always be bingo

[@jchagasla]

Best day 1 ever. Edit: and night 1. Edit2: and day and night 2. I should finish watching before posting a comment..

[@williamherbert2901]

I would just delete and repost 😂

[@nathanlefrench]

I loved this amnesiac ability: The coffee woman

[@Klondike1000]

Poor Richie was just trying to die the entire time just to prove himself

[@Sten43211]

That! was amazing!

[@segevstormlord3713]

Giving it to Malakai on the night the DA protected him would've been _amazing._

[@picturesintheair]

I’m about 15 seconds into this video on my TV and I had to stop and jump on my iPad to comment: Consternation is rude. 😂

[@eGG-pi2qd]

what a beautiful game

[@DyrianLightbringer]

I know Ben is used to saying "X of your living neighbors are evil," to an Empath, but a Cannibal is never told what ability they gained. They just get the info, so Ben gave Jams more info that he should have by confirming she gained the Empath ability.

[@BloodontheClocktower]

It's been a while since this game, so I don't actually remember this, but it's certainly possible I messed up. It certainly wouldn't be the first time, haha. It looks like the only characters that would learn such info on this script are Empath or Chef though, so I doubt it really gave anything away to Jams. - Ben

[@DyrianLightbringer]

@@BloodontheClocktower In this particular instance, you're probably right. I just wanted to point this out as more general advice for any other potential STs that watch this.

[@ElusiveEel]

@@BloodontheClocktower 1:47:30 In this case Malakai was open with being the Empath so it didn't matter, because Jams would know what the number was meant to be anyway

[@ab-mc2nq]

that beer can is amazing

[@ElderonAnalas]

Was a little confused about the amnesia ability. It sounded like. "pick an alive player. If they would get an empath 1 or 2. The neighbors of their neighbors can't die. (ie 2 spaces from the picked person, and the picked person themselves)"

[@ElderonAnalas]

Yeah, it was confusing for the wording. Like, when he picked Jams. I thought it meant since Sam was evil, then that would make aggie, Kat, and jams immune to execution

[@armech2911]

That amnesicac ability should be called Twisted Tea Lady

[@cheesiestmaster879]

Amne Idea: All players except you retain their abilities when they die, you learn you have a passive ability

[@Pauavi]

So if Amne dies, players who died before the Amne no longer have their abilities?

[@itchy7879]

Hilarious game, ty Ben

[@nazmussaadat5593]

I wish Sam didn't just come out as evil at the end after Jams' info dump and immediately claim DA. I feel like evil could have sold the world where Ellen, Malakai and Richie were all evil together, and Jams was the evil turned cannibal or even the last outsider hiding to make Samantha look evil.

[@Crimson_Rogue97]

I think Samantha had already come out as evil at that point tbf

[@omg2manyusers]

I recently came up with an ability, though I'm uncertain of its power. I call it the Herbalist, though its working name was the Doctor (renamed to avoid confusion with the Plague Doctor). I intend it as a Townsfolk or a Traveller. "Once per game, at night, choose a character. If in play, that character is healthy and sober for two nights (including tonight) and two days, during which they receive correct information." Jinxes I spotted include... * Courtier - the Herbalist's ability supersedes the Courtier's if both are applied to the same target. * Drunk - the Drunk does not learn they are the Drunk and cannot receive reliable information. (This is less a jinx, more a clarification) * Lleech - the Lleech's host cannot be made healthy by this ability. * Pukka - the Pukka's poison can be prevented from affecting the ability of the afflicted, but this does not protect the afflicted from dying when the Pukka chooses another target. * Vortox - the protected player ignores the Vortox's misinformation power. There's plenty of roles already so I don't anticipate this being particularly required, but hey, it's an option.

[@cariboumaker2452]

I like it. I think I prefer it as pick a player, but I am unsure! Nice idea.

[@omg2manyusers]

@@cariboumaker2452 The main reason I have it as "pick a character" is to serve as a parallel to the Courtier. Picking a player could offer more balance, though, having it serve as a way to fuel or undermine a bluff... there's advantages to both options.

[@ganema9]

I don't really think the Lleech's poison should supercede this character's ability, specifically because that could help in masking the Lleech, especially if this is a traveller.

[@omg2manyusers]

@@ganema9 I understand with that reasoning, but one of the Lleech's only tells is its consistent poisoning. It's important to leave that tell for the good team - if you have a Lleech host getting provably good information, how can you know what demon's in play? It's that very reason I now wonder if it serves better as a townsfolk than a traveller. The original draft for the Herbalist had its ability work for three nights and days, specifically to match the Courtier, but I worried that that might be too potent as just a townsfolk, hence the initial townsfolk/traveller proposal. Writing it for this post, however, I realised that even that duration might be a bit much so I toned it down to two days, which you now see.

[@alchemicpink2392]

Honestly putting this amne ability in a flippin Chef 0 game was amazing Edit 4-5 months later: The night you struggled with your decision: I think axing Kat after the Mez turn helps more because that way Kat is allowed to think that maybe she was drunk? It is less mechanical confirmation for the Mez-turned grandchild at the very least while also bolstering Kat as good due to night death. Also makes sense in an Ojo world who might want to get a grandmother out of the way to not accidentally hard confirm 2 players when the one player who definitively wasn't an outsider got executed.

[@RoderickEtheria]

So if the Amnesiac gets to the final three, Good loses?

[@Moleoflands]

No, they said it wouldn't work in final 3

[@q-tuber7034]

Like Witch. The ability has a failsafe to keep it from ruining the game at the end

[@RoderickEtheria]

@@q-tuber7034 Failsafe was added at the end. I saw the potential issue at the beginning.

[@Crimson_Rogue97]

If it hadn't have turned off Evil would have automatically won so its a good thing Ben added that bit on after a while

[@Gufnorkian]

No, he could have just pointed at the player he wanted to kill (the one holding little monster) and it would be fine. The issue occurred when the Amne turned evil, which made the addendum necessary. So the issue that you apparently saw didn't exist at the beginning.

[@SuperLb14]

So i can never play this game (need friends for that x.x) but i LOVE the design of lil monsta so much when i first saw it i wanted to get a tattoo of it it's just so cute!

[@dragonangl2161]

A jester acrobat who's evil. You mentioned Cicero from Skyrim, I'm not familiar with Ultima 7, but I'd also suggest Hisoka from Hunter x Hunter.

[@SharienGaming]

also what about kafka from final fantasy 6?^^

[@dragonangl2161]

@@SharienGaming True enough. Possibly also Magilou from Tales of Berseria, even if she's more Chaotic Neutral.

[@nmgirl84]

I'm a little late, but when the amne turned evil, should the grandmother have gotten a new grandchild?? their ability states that they know a good player...

[@BloodontheClocktower]

It does not, it states "you start knowing a good player" and that distinction is important, because "you know" would indeed necessitate a new player, whereas "you start knowing" means that it happens on night 1 and that's it. - Ben

[@darbyl3872]

If Cannibal has the Pixie-Chef ability, and the Chef is executed, shouldn't the Canni get the Chef number at the first opportunity (beginning of the night), since Chef is a starting info role? I thought Pixie becoming something is a new instance, and Canni is secondary.

[@Benusr]

Would (hypothetically) an evil klutz picking their demon in final 3 make evil lose, or would the evil team win before the klutz got to choose?

[@Lunaraia]

Whichever team the klutz is on loses. The Klutz ability says, "Your Team Loses" specifically to prevent auto-wins if the klutz turns. The same goes for Saint and Damsel."

[@Benusr]

@@Lunaraia But that doesn't really answer my question...

[@Lunaraia]

@@Benusr it does, though, an evil klutz causes their team (in the case of your question, Evil) to lose. In fact, in the case where the klutz dies in the final three, is evil and for some reason chooses their demon, good still wins since that causes a Tie, and Good always wins ties.

[@Benusr]

@@Lunaraia Yes I know... That's why I said "making evil lose"...

[@Benusr]

@@Lunaraia That's not always true, a character ability is almost always the one who breaks the tie (in favour of whose win con it was) For example, Boomdandy situations... Evil wins ties here...

[@Centrifuze]

1:35:38 Oh Richie... You did not just call it an "Ojoe"... 🤦🏻‍♂🤦🏻‍♂🤦🏻‍♂

[@djdoit31]

Did Ben ever tell the pixie they were the tea lady after the tea lady died?

[@BloodontheClocktower]

The Pixie doesn't learn when they acquire their ability, they just acquire it. - Ben

[@LioLemur]

I have a question, why did the godfather not get to pick a player when the Klutz died there?

[@BloodontheClocktower]

The Godfather's ability specifies "if 1 died today". The Klutz died at night. - Ben

[@CuttingWords]

Hello KZbin! So many folks double claiming my role that game!

[@albert_vds]

Isn't it a bit unfair to tell Ryan at the end that his ability won't protect him, because he is the one who needs to figure out his ability?

[@BloodontheClocktower]

Hey. it's been nearly a year since this game and I remember nothing about it. Any chance you could timestamp what you're referring to so I can take a look? - Ben

[@albert_vds]

@@BloodontheClocktower 1:57:10

[@BloodontheClocktower]

I think Ryan was actually referring to being protected by the Devil's Advocate. However, even if that weren't the case, allowing your players to be aware of the basic limits of how the game works is always good GMing practice IMO. - Ben

[@ForBlow]

whats the bootleg fable doing this game if anything i mightve missed it

[@emc246]

He said at the beginning it looked like it was used to add the Ojo before the Ojo actually existed.

[@Lunaraia]

Demon idea, please give me your thoughts on it: Name: Corruption Powers: Each Night, including night 1: Choose a living Good player, they wake, turn Evil and learn who you are. Evil Townsfolk ALWAYS register as minions. If the number of living Evil players outnumber living Good players, Evil wins. No starting Minions. Jinxes: Hate Jinx: Magician, Mayor and Snake Charmer and Raven Keeper, and any other role I can't recall right now that relies on the demon killing them at night. These roles won't really do much in a Corruption game, with the Magician and Snake Charmer being potentially outright harmful to the town and the Mayor having an impossibly low chance for their ability to ever come into play. Poppy Grower: Becomes poisoned if turned evil, until then, turned townsfolk do not learn who the Demon is, but all of them learn it immediately if the poppy grower becomes Evil. Bounty Hunter: Does not learn of an evil Townsfolk until after Corruption has turned a townsfolk on night 1. Note: Evil Outsiders still register as Outsiders like normal, Recluse also function like normal even when Evil, this is deliberate to allow Balloonist to function normally.

[@stevenokeefe2681]

Richie, WTF? You drank with Ryan when there was 4 left. Make the nom regardless! What are you doing? You drank with Mal when he was nominated and didn’t even vote to change it to Samantha. Richie is the worst

[@Crimson_Rogue97]

Personally, I think that Amnesiac ability was more evil leaning for a starting Good Amnesiac. I see Ben's Tea Lady + Empath reasoning but in reality it put more suspicion on Good players and didn't benefit the good team at all. Still a great, fun game, but yeah I think that Amne ability really helped give evil an extra leg up early on even though the Amne was still good at that point

[@Gufnorkian]

I mean it didn't help good because the Amne turned evil. Had he been good he would have outed that he most likely was the reason Samantha survived. He also didn't figure out his full ability so he only created tea ladies, the empath part never saw the light of day. Again, probably because he was evil and didn't really care about that. This game would have been very different if the Mez had turned someone else.

[@Crimson_Rogue97]

@@Gufnorkian I think the ability didn't help good before the Mez turn though. Like I said before I understand Ben's reasoning I just don't think it would have helped as much as I think he foresaw it would. Mez turn aside you are essentially giving the evil team a second way to survive with a DA already in play. I just think the protecting evil players part isn't outweighed enough by the "Empath" side of the ability

[@Gufnorkian]

@@Crimson_Rogue97 It didn't. I personally don't think it should until the Amne figures the ability out. Had the Amne figured out the full ability and stayed good, it would have been really powerful. Protecting an evil player isn't an issue if you know who you are protecting. You can just inform town that the execution would be wasted, let's execute someone else.

[@Crimson_Rogue97]

@@Gufnorkian I think that still gets to the point where good have to execute Ryan unless Ben kills him in the night because then with the alive count getting smaller there's a high possibility he could protect someone holding the baby without necessarily meaning to. You also as I say have a DA around and can just spin a world where Ryan is evil (possibly the DA) and Kat was poisoned N1 seeing an out of play role. I really enjoy having Clocktower debates and talking through things. I think the "What if" scenarios are fascinating and we'll never really know how it would have turned out any of the other ways. I just think generally overall when you have a Sailor, Tea Lady, Pixie Tea Lady and a DA also having essentially an Amnesiac Tea Lady (with Spicy Tea) probably isn't the helpful Amnesiac ability town needed in this game

[@Gufnorkian]

@@Crimson_Rogue97 So my assumption for the evaluation of the ability is that people believe he is good. How it would mess up the tables ability to determine who is evil is beyond my ability. It's quite possible it would make things harder to deduce for town, I'm not at the level of the players in this game so I don't know.

[@jaypham3393]

41:26 😂

[@SceneTurkey]

Kat absolutely deserves the Politician win even not as the Politician

[@dlew1110]

I was saying this the whole game until the end. She really helped evil win. More than Ryan did I think.

[@brockmarie]

Isn't the jester from the Ultima series just really really annoying? 😂

[@BloodontheClocktower]

I think he turns out to be some sort of villain in one of the later games. I just remember him from the old Spoony Ultima retrospectives. Classic KZbin content right there. - Ben

[@GeminiJake]

The tea lady could not have died because he was protected by the amnesiac pick.....

[@q-tuber7034]

A very entertaining Amne ability (and not overpowering for either team, since ST got to pick the night kills), and a very entertaining game. Ben, your instincts are great.

[@joshuadrew5223]

I haven't finished, but the good guys deserve to lose. This is pathetic reads from the good team.

[@TheFizzster]

I’ve become less and less impressed with Ben’s amne abilities

[@BloodontheClocktower]

Sorry about that chief. - Ben

[@TheFizzster]

@@BloodontheClocktower it’s OK, this one just didn’t hit right. Amnesiac is a very difficult role for the storyteller to balance properly and I don’t think I could do it any better.

[@SpanishBloodontheClocktower]

I love Mez games! Evil Amne is one of my favs 😈