OK, Dragon Ball? This Is Getting Awkward.

[@MasakoX]

Part 2 of this discussion: kzbin.info/www/bejne/poLMenWmrcZ0gbs

[@NEORandomMan]

4 likes

[@SullivanDLuffy]

I love Team Rocket

[@Mavr1ckhunter]

I only know the durombo gang cause of tatsunoko vs campcom

[@HaveYouTriedGuillotines]

Glad I didn't click on this video before. Didn't expect you to be the sort to participate in moral panic, MasakoX.

[@gae_wead_dad_6914]

ffs Mai WASN'T trying to hit Goku black's head She was trying to hit the POTARA EARRINGS. No, not even when caught by surprise can bullets hurt Goku black... How can you get that sooo wrong?

[@Darkflo23]

To be fair to Mai, i'm pretty sure Toryiama said she had her memory of beeing grown up, but not the maturity that came with it, kinda like Goku in GT beeing a lot more dumb and carefree than in the Buu Saga.

[@oldmanjesus9855]

Goku has always been carefree, the American dub made him look like Clark Kent for whatever weird reason, but tense moments aside when he is always serious, Goku has always been a very playful and easygoing guy, OG, Z, GT or Super.

[@calebcardinal3867]

Yeah but if gt Goku left chichi to date someone in middle school that would be weird

[@CecilTheDarkKnight234]

@@calebcardinal3867 fanfics like that already exist.

[@MotherLover1984]

@@azuresaiyan9005 No, he is not nearly as mature

[@Darkflo23]

@@calebcardinal3867 It's clearly explained that Bulma forced her to go to school, and she has showed zero interest in Trunks or other schoolboys, she just has a slight crush on a superhero that remind her of Future Trunks, that is all, people are blowing this out of proportion.

[@happyhatebot]

Mai just feels like a huge example of the "She's really older!" problem in her relationship with Trunks, though with a bit more of the existential horror of what that actually means when you're not someone with a built-in eternal youth factor or that WON'T continue aging. The trope has existed for a while, but the realities of it are often not explored or dealt with... and while hopeful, I'm with Masako that I don't quite see it happening much this time, either. Maybe a fun creative writing experiment? Hmm.

[@Xylospring]

Fun indeed. I'd love to see Masako give it a crack at writing a background of the Pilaf Gang, how they formed, leading up to this.

[@SoupCanMafia]

That kinda reminds me of the Immortality Tropes Talk Overly Sarcastic Production's Red talked about.

[@reggielacey2235]

It's not even bad foreal. It's anime

[@MugiwaraPhoenix]

So if master roshi makes the same wish a mai and becomes the same age as pan, and they start dating than it isnt werid

[@happyhatebot]

@@MugiwaraPhoenix I have no idea how you got to that conclusion based on anything I said. But, to clarify - no, it's equally as bad if the situation is entirely the same (wishing for youth and using that as an excuse) regardless of gender. Potentially worse depending on if the intent (in either case) suggests creating a "grooming" scenario.

[@Starman_Dx]

Future Mai was so popular because, in my opinion, she actually did something. She was involved in the story, and for a bit, the fighting as well. They actually developed her. They need to repeat that again with present Mai. And Pilof and best ninja boi Shoo! Otherwise... Mai is getting Chi-Chi'ed.

[@Xylospring]

OH GOD NO. DEVELOPMENT NOW. NO HOUSEWIFING HER. NOOOO. BREAK UP THE SASAUGEFEST.

[@Ethan-San_x]

@@Xylospring faxs

[@ninyaninjabrifsanovichthes45]

@@Xylospring Plot twist: Trunks becomes Mai's boywife.

[@Xylospring]

@@ninyaninjabrifsanovichthes45 Househusband Time. World Threats Appear and Mai rips out an Uzi and Rocket Pack.

[@Xylospring]

@@ninyaninjabrifsanovichthes45 Househusband Time. World Threats Appear and Mai rips out an Uzi and Rocket Pack.

[@newgirlde]

It was pretty unsettling for me until I asked myself "who can she be in a relationship with that wouldn't be problematic?" And... Really that answer is no one. And that is just infinitely sad. Maybe Mai herself has kinda realized this too. With that in mind I think how they are handling Mai and Trunks is the least uncomfortable.

[@Xylospring]

They really should have nuked her memories.

[@NateTmi]

I would think pilaf or the other member of the pilaf gang, that dog. They are all ruffly the same age I thought & they have each been put into a younger body. So the best relationship where no one would be asking questions is someone else that made the same wish that she got.

[@miguelnewmexico8641]

@@NateTmi im not sure banging a dog is the answer to this question.

[@WolfXGamerful]

@@NateTmi But even _that_ is also kinda sad because one is/was her _boss_ and the other is a _dog_ so...yeah. Besides, neither seems to land in the ballpark of her type.

[@I.Am.Terrible.At.Usernames]

@@NateTmi except Pilaf is basically a Gremlin and Shu is... well a dog. So that also would raise a ton of questions

[@okuigokublack]

After Vegeta got an entire family on Earth after committing mass genocide, this feels tame in comparison.

[@SuikaNine]

Violence is forgivable but sexual deviancy is not. That is the mentality of the West while it is the opposite in Japan.

[@okuigokublack]

@@SuikaNine Then I guess the West will forgive Frieza but not Master Roshi, lol

[@xelestial_sky]

@@SuikaNine oop, how dare you be right on the internet

[@xelestial_sky]

@@okuigokublack weirdly enough seems like most of them forgive master Roshi just fine. I feel like the issue here is that Mai is an older woman tbh

[@okuigokublack]

@@xelestial_sky It's not helped by the fact that her self-awareness is cloudy; meaning, there's no clues whether she knows she's a 50+ woman going to high school and has a minor crushing on her.

[@RyuseiiTheCrimsonKing]

I just see it that Mai never really had a normal childhood or adulthood, like she thought handholding was the most adult thing a person could do in DB, she did not have the mentality of an adult. With this reset I see it as her having a chance to properly become a real proper adult but still has to actually go through a normal teenager's growth as well first. But my mindset is of someone who doesn't really see a big deal with things like this in fiction, so take it as you will.

[@Xylospring]

Fair point. What if Pilaf and Shu just found her as a Kid ages ago and she's been by their side since?

[@Kurotaisa]

@@Xylospring Shu is a dog, ain't he? Can't be that old, right?

[@RyuseiiTheCrimsonKing]

@@Xylospring Yeah they're pretty much the only people she's ever really interacted with, and they're both not people I would consider mentally adults, especially not pilaf.

[@Xylospring]

@@RyuseiiTheCrimsonKing Kinda makes me wonder what would happen if someone held Mais' hand in OGDB. The look of pure panic on her face in the artstyle would have been funny.

[@Xylospring]

@@Kurotaisa I mean...fair point. I wonder...

[@KHmaster523]

Personally I've had a suspension of disbelief about present Mai. Yes she is "technically" in her 40s but they did turn themselves into babies using the Dragonballs. The clock has been turned back and they are now in their teens. Trunks for decades now has only been the counterpart to Goten and that has pretty much been it. Now we get to see him in a new light and Mai serves as the catalyst for this change. She's a kid now, this is comicbooks, things get wacky, lets move on. And lets be honest, no one batted an eye when Wolverine was dating Jean Grey 👀.

[@jamminmonkey100]

'Manga' please and that was a controversy between wolverine x jean within and amongst the comic community. Wym no one batted an eye 💀😂 db has always been like this. Roshi giving bulma the dragon ball or the flying nimbus.. Forgot lmaooo during the original db and all bulma had to was to show her pantaloons but bulma wasn't wearing a bra lol Roshi was wildin!! 😭

[@TetsuDeinonychus]

Yeah, I think it works in a "cartoon logic" kind of way.

[@annedrieck7316]

F ur headcannon

[@dontmisunderstand6041]

Thing is... that's not how the story has been treating Mai. It's been treating Mai as if she actually were an adult stuck in a child's body. She is by far the most mature character in the cast so far. She acts her *real* age, not her visible age. And that has also extended to the way she interacts with the kids.

[@TetsuDeinonychus]

@@jamminmonkey100 Manga falls under the category of comic books, it just means the comic is from Japan. Saying "It's not comics. It's manga." (or "It's not cartoons. It's anime.") is like saying "It's not food. It's sushi." (or more accurately "It's not food. It's Nihon-Ryouri.") (Unless, your beef is the strict definition of "comic book" as short single issue booklets in which case, you're right because manga is published in anthology magazines.)

[@SpammytheHedgehog]

After all these years Mai finally receives Character Development.

[@AnIdiotsLantern]

I think this is the best take. I can’t pretend the age factor isn’t uncomfortable, but personally, the fact it’s uncomfortable is something Mai ALSO realizes. Remember in CoG when Trunks suggests they hold hands and she blushes up a storm. This isn’t the reaction of a 40 year old woman who has already had mature relationships. Whether we like it or not, Trunks represents her best chance to have a life of her own, and maybe at last be happy.

[@DADRB0B55]

Calm down Diddy

[@MasakoX]

Thanks for watching. What do you think of the present situation for this character? Do you feel that the present version could lead to something more...wholesome?

[@SpammytheHedgehog]

Remember when Mai had blue eyes?

[@UnwantedGhost1]

Maybe, but I'm hoping it doesn't get weirder. At this point, I'm ready for the rebooted "End of Z" story so we'll see what happens afterwards.

[@UnwantedGhost1]

@@SpammytheHedgehog Me. But that's just typical reconning/forgetting things from the creator.

[@Xylospring]

I feel it's like a second chance at life.

[@callanadamwilliams8200]

18 and Krillin is much more problematic ship since 18 has the body of a teenager

[@Tay-xj5ud]

MasakoX: Present Mai will not date Present Trunks Me: You must be new here.

[@MasakoX]

Do not deny me my copium...

[@Tay-xj5ud]

@@MasakoX lol

[@valentds]

it's actually sad. mai: i love the future version of you, the saiyaman, but not you again, "kid" trunks is the waaay less cooler version of himself

[@Tay-xj5ud]

@@valentds yeah but I'm betting this Arc would be about her falling in love with present day Trunks. I'm not saying I'm in support or not in support. I just know from a narrative view. but who knows maybe they might pull a "screw the audience" move.

[@TheODLawson23]

@@Tay-xj5ud Yeah. Toyotaro said in an interview that a developing romantic relationship between Trunks and Mai in the manga will happen. I remember watching the end of Z, Trunks mentioned it to Goten that he had a girlfriend in the crowd watching him fight his opponent at the tournament. His girlfriend might be Mai.

[@solidskullz5736]

Oh God dragon ball is turning into the seven deadly sins

[@MasakoX]

Somebody needs to tell Trunks...

[@UnwantedGhost1]

@@MasakoX Chris Hansen?

[@alexanderstavroulakis335]

Haven't seen that. What happened?

[@TakeshiInazuma]

@@MasakoX not really... Again, she's not doing anything.

[@X_Blake]

I need context.

[@burningshadowsoul]

I don't understand why this is such a controversial issue in the dragonball fandom. Mai wasted her life running around with Pilaf and Shu for the dragon balls. We never really see her live her life as a normal person. To me, I believe she got a second chance to live again. Whether she dates Trunks or even an older man, people will have problems with it. I think a lot of us Westerners make a bigger deal out of this than we should.

[@reagenlionel]

Well said

[@miguelnewmexico8641]

other than making about "westerners" i agree.

[@burningshadowsoul]

@Miguel NewMexico I only made that comment about 'us Westerners' because we seem to be the most vocal about this.

[@alastorthedemonslayer4257]

@@burningshadowsoul most definitely and can get quite annoying at times especially when the situation ain’t that bad

[@bigounce8549]

I dont mind her dating/ having sexual relationships with someone in her actual age range (or at least someone over 18). But sexually assaulting a 13 years old is definitely without a doubt not a way to go.

[@eleven2614]

Present Mai: "You know what? I'm starting to have feelings for..." Chris Hensen: "Welp. Time to get out of retirement. Take a seat."

[@miguelnewmexico8641]

that's stupid.

[@oguzhangungor9117]

Considering Toriyama's track record....Vegeta might get to be a grandpa one day.

[@ShmeengusDingus]

Mai was at youngest twenty something in DB. The whole relationship is weird as heck

[@Etticos.]

Goku in GT “oh yeah you’re the Pilaf gang”. This reminds me of one of my favorite changes in DBZA where Goku says, “and that MONSTER Pilaf!”. I always took that to imply that since Goku was a kid when dealing with Pilaf, Pilaf’s threat to kid Goku seemed more sinister, and now adult Goku has this idea that the ultimately harmless Pilaf is the incarnate of true evil.

[@LucidPhoton]

My, oh Mai ;p. A surprisingly complex character. I Like that Toyatarou is trying to focus on the characters from a more personal and emotional perspective. Toriyama never really did that.... Even if it is being done through this... Odd narrative.

[@Eldoofus]

Honestly, Mai's dilemma is pretty bad already... her maturity got wished away and she even forgot a lot of stuff she used to know... but it's not like she had a normal life beforehand... now she has that chance she never had, and... now she's just sad. it's depressing.

[@MugiwaraPhoenix]

So if master roshi makes the same wish a mai and becomes the same age as pan, and they start dating than it isnt werid

[@SpammytheHedgehog]

Toriyama forgot that Mai had blue eyes.

[@lonewolf9578]

The guy forgets entire characters, are you surprised he forgot her eye colour?

[@TakeshiInazuma]

Were they Blue in the manga or just the anime?

[@XJSPlays02]

@@TakeshiInazuma her eyes were black in the Manga

[@CateSaturn]

I don't see the relationship as problematic. Usually the older person is manipulative, or the generational gap makes it hard to connect with each other so you have an awkward power dynamic. In a case like Mai, she's in a weird place. A part of me thinks she understands it too. Which is why she shuts down the possibility and just goes with the flow, thus creating her own little protective bubble. It was only in the Goku Black arc that future Mai broke out of her bubble and really became a character rather than just some supporting henchmen. So the problem becomes, how do we break her bubble? When you look at it from a human perspective, she deserves happiness too. Sending high school is a fantastic idea, it breaks down that generational gap. This allows her to have that second chance in life.

[@thejest69]

Same. With a relationship age gap, issues come less from the exact number of years, and more from the POWER IMBALANCE between the individuals (hence why many fans don't take issue with the relationship when they're both adults, there are in a situation where they are able to be equals). Even common uses of the "she's actually older" troupe are done with the younger-looking character being more vulnerable or needing to rely on the older-looking person for something, which isn't the case here, Trunks and Mai appear the same age, and Mai being "actually older" doesn't give her any particular advantage/disadvantage (she acts childish, writing makes it clear she has a kid's brain, and even though she's able to remember her old life, it isn't especially useful to her now), or anything else about their situation that'd cause a power imbalance between the two.

[@bigounce8549]

How can people rationalize hebephilia is absolutely beyond me.

[@ArclightLuna]

@@bigounce8549 I mean wtf Mai finna do lmao anyone who would get with her that’s “her age” (mentally) at best is probably a creep lmao

[@bullettime1116]

@@bigounce8549 so do we allow her to date a 60+ year old creep with a teens body or..... your choice

[@akiraasmr3002]

@@ArclightLuna thank you for sticking up for maps they deserve love too.

[@johnnyd3158]

Honestly, this kinda makes me miss Trunks and Mai’s relationship from the Battle of Gods film as it was implied that Mai reciprocated Trunks’ feelings by the end of that film as she even referred to him as her boyfriend in the Resurrection F film.

[@Xylospring]

It's still cute to rewatch those movies and see Mai annoyed and blush.

[@kylepeters8690]

I forgot about that.

[@autumbreeze1129]

Just another reason why the movies are the only good thing that came from Super

[@johnnyd3158]

@@autumbreeze1129 What’s funny is that Battle of Gods and Resurrection F are actually Z films, not Super films, lol.

[@spartanAXA]

​@@autumbreeze1129ToP was amazing.

[@MercuryAlphaInc]

Mai was actually aiming for Goku Black's Potara, since Goku Black needed the Potara of a Kaioshin to stay in that timeline since only Kaioshin can use the Time Ring. Without the Potara, the Time Ring would stop working and Goku Black would've been shot back to his timeline. As with Mai and Trunks'... Inner age-gap? Meh, I don't mind. It's not like Mai is going full Master Roshi over Trunks and is going into deep disturbing territory. Lemme put it like this: One day you wake up in your 15 year old body. You have all your memories of your older self, all of your experiences, etc... Would that stop you from living your life as a 15 year old? Would that stop you from developing crushes or love interests? No. Because you'd start behaving your age again. You'd realise you have a second chance at life, you could... Do things differently. It's not "Mai is 45 and Trunks is 15", it's "Mai is 15 and Trunks is 15" while Mai is just... Much more mature mentally. And, honestly, if there's someone that Trunks should end up with, it's someone who is mentally mature, cause the poor kid inherited his fathers bravado and his mother's emotional outbursts, he needs someone to ground him a bit.

[@maverickturner9584]

Mai had no knowledge of Potara and you can clearly see her aiming for his head, she was just too far and couldn't fully account for bullet drop and sway while aiming; she even goes as far as to comment that their distance is unsure for her aim and target, that's why she took the shot instead of the rebel soldier she had accompanying her.

[@OnlySayori]

she doesnt even act mentally 45, thats the funniest part, she is also mentally younger which makes it better, and less weird

[@OmegaShadeslayer]

Mai is 50, trunk is 13.

[@bleh6809]

You don’t magically not become a Kai if you lose the potara lol

[@Dr_Mundo]

@@OmegaShadeslayer Hoiw tf is trunks 13

[@shadow3746]

To be honest I thought about this, but then I realized that there are plenty of stories where things like this happen. Stories of young men falling in love with an immortal goddess, humans loving vampires, people dying and reincarnating into the body of a younger person, etc. I'm perfectly okay with Trunks and Mai being together since she got her second chance at youth.

[@darrienjones8917]

Yeah it's not really that weird

[@bigounce8549]

@@darrienjones8917 exactly theres nothing weird about a 50 year old woman having a sexual relationships with a 13 year old. Even if you reverse the roles theres nothing weird that comes up in my rational brain that makes me think mais a hebephile or anything. Its not like those other stories like wonder woman for example where she over 5000 years old and dates a 30 year old grown man.

[@BeingOfEvil0]

@@bigounce8549 The dragon balls makes (almost) miracles lol

[@gerardonavarro3400]

@@bigounce8549 what?? I'm sorry, bit how is a 30 year old woman dating s 13 year old boy okay in your eyes? She must me a fully mature and developed adult while the boy is JUST entering puberty, it's just common sense

[@OPMack]

@@bigounce8549 These people are pedophiles.

[@mar.k.4983]

With the Pilaf’s Gang I have been really curious every time they have an interaction with other characters. With everything they did with Mai and Trunks I was even more invested. It gets weird sometimes when you think about it, but if they give some depth to a character I’m all in for it. The only thing I don’t understand ( or don’t remember) is if any character at all actually realized that they are the Pilaf Gang 😂

[@Xylospring]

I really want some kind of backstory to the Pilaf Gang and their formation. Sadly I do not think we will ever get one. And boi where does one even Start? Hell. It's kinda hurting my head. How do you make a Fan idea? Where to start? So much further back...

[@mar.k.4983]

@@Xylospring I guess it could start with the one who told Pilaf about the Dragon Balls, whoever it was

[@retrogamer6403]

I think Bulma at least did.

[@EndoScorpion]

Bulma calls Mai by name, and explains Mai is only going to school so that people don't start asking questions; implying that Bulma knows full well that Mai is an adult in a childs body. Goku and others have recognised the Pilaf gang in other instances such as GT. There's no doubt that Bulma knows exactly who she is.

[@DarthSears]

The Pilaf Gang stopped being a threat after the singular arc they existed in during OGDB. They literally laughed when Mai held a gun to Trunks' head. They likely all know who the Pilaf Gang, they just don't care.

[@ZeothTheHedgehog]

I never understood why Mai, of all characters, was chosen as Trunks' love interest. It's such a random and nonsensical decision to me, like why not just make someone completely new for Trunks to be with? Why does it need to be Mai? Like is really such a tall order to make a completely new character to be Trunks' girlfriend instead of matching him up with a woman whose (mentally) multiple years older than him?

[@JazzyReShawn]

I can’t believe I’m saying this, but GT did something else right by making a new character to be Goten’s girlfriend.😑 And that’s the series where we see Mai as an old lady while Trunks is young and in his prime - which makes the situation more eww.😱

[@Xylospring]

If you constantly make new Characters you end up with eventual Scraps. And canonically Mai is already pretry cool and fun due to the Future Counterpart rather than just farting out a one off Future character. "This is Doug. He helps me in the future."

[@ZeothTheHedgehog]

@@Xylospring bringing back an old character to do something new with them isn't my problem, it's the fact they decided to pair her with Trunks is what's bothering me. Again, it's such a random decision that doesn't seem to have any reason behind besides "just cause."

[@TakeshiInazuma]

It's not about GT or Super doing anything right or wrong... It just started as a joke for reintroducing the pilaf gang. With her using Trunks as a hostage, and then being his crush. She decided to grow up normally. In Trunks's mind, I'm sure even if he found out, it's not like the girl before him is in her 50 year old body, and actually will just write it off as the past. If he finds out after Z when he's or even later when he's 21, he most likely won't care.

[@dmitribrutus5543]

Yeah, I always find it weird that Trunks and Mai are a couple

[@Pioxys]

For me, Future Mai & Trunks work because they're both adults. They also work very well together, and Mai isn't the typical Dragonball woman. She's more like 18 where she actually does something, and help out throughout the story. The present variants is just weird. It's not a deal breaker for me though. This arc been pretty fun to sit through. Just they're forcing this ship a bit too much, without really knowing Mai's backstory all like that. Leaving us with this situation.

[@EndoScorpion]

I could argue she is like the typical DB woman, assuming you're referring to the likes of Chi-Chi, Videl and 18. They all started out as kick-ass females who could hold their own in a fight, but the moment they got into relationships they became nothing more then wives. Same could easily happen to Mai.

[@devilmikey00]

Yeah, future trunks must have met mai when he was older given he was already 19 during the android era and he was in his early 30's in Super. So yeah, there is still a mental age gap but they are both still adults when the relationship starts.

[@ssjgotenks2009]

@@devilmikey00 ther eis no 19 or beng audlts lame there fic charaters there paper there not eal and apper has no age the courlt rueld ont his and even aid you can dow hat you want with them japen even said so this do you think yuo know mroe about fic charaters then japen no you dont

[@derman1907]

@@ssjgotenks2009 Do you know how to spell? At all?

[@mamaspasta7285]

@@EndoScorpion In all fairness, 18 did a lot more than Krillin it DBS when in came to fighting.

[@kryptoknightmk1]

The whole situation with present Trunks and Mai is somewhat unsettling. I think they probably should have left it at the whole awkward crush on the future versions of themselves for a bit. Trunks should have gone on to get involved with other girls his age as a result of Mai pushing him away due to her own concerns about it all. Then when they are adults they can bring it back around and revisit the relationship because its easier to swallow when they are both adults in mind and body. Also, I feel like Super needs to at some point put a measure of distance between the current Pilaf gang's personalities and the originals. Maybe find a way to point out that while they remember their earlier lives reverting to younger bodies and less developed brains put made it so the memories are more like remembering a book you read or movie you saw. Where you feel a disconnect from it and you are more shaped by your experiences since. I dont expect any of that though. I'm sure Super just expects us all to ignore the weirdness and not think about it. I'm honestly not sure it even occurred to them why it might have been problematic. I really hope her and Trunks both get some decent progression in Super because honestly I've always felt like versions of main timeline Trunks when he gets older just aren't as interesting as Future Trunks. GT Trunks was especially disappointing to me. Without the trials and hardships of the future timeline he just fell flat for me.

[@ivanvelasquez9398]

I think it would have been cool if they lost their memories when they were turned into kinds. So what we’re seeing happening in the story is how the Pilaf gang turns out when growing surrounded by the dragon team. Maybe some of their less than perfect traits still surface, but they become overall good characters who we the audience know about their origins but they themselves don’t. Also that fixes the controversies surrounding Trunks and Mai since they both are physically, mentally, and emotionally teenagers who go to the same school.

[@casteanpreswyn7528]

But why do non-creepy relationships in a manga, that seems literally impossible for the art firm.

[@strifenineteen]

So I've said this before and I'll say it again, if mai had seen trunks and said "that kid is going to be a hunky when he gets older, I'll make myself younger so I can get his attention now so I can pluck that fruit when it's ripe" that would be creepy. But that's not what happened, she was turned young by her boss and is making the best of the situation. Plus she isn't interested in current Trunks even knowing there is a future where they are together, it's Trunks who has a thing for her which she isn't reciprocating.

[@xelestial_sky]

Yeah exactly 💀 If that had happened, it would be been truly disgusting. But the situation that occurred is through no fault of Mai's. She hasn't done anything wrong and she didn't even try to hang onto present Trunks and put that expectation on him even after she fell in love with his adult self. Mai is completely innocent here. If I were in her shoes, I too would only become interested in him once he became the person I fell in love with or similar to him. And at this rate, he will need to gain a lot more maturity for that.

[@carso1500]

and this entire arc is probably made so that trunk matures a little bit and mai gets interested in him

[@strifenineteen]

@@carso1500 and that's fine honestly

[@CuppaGi]

If Mai got with someone her own mental age, people would riot. If Mai gets with Trunks, who is her own physical age, people will riot. Mai literally isn't allowed to find love without people being upset over it. The way I see it, she's been turned into a kid. Therefor, she is a kid. If people wanna argue that the 900 year old Dragon girl can't have an adult boyfriend because she looks like a kid, then they can't be mad when she gets a kid boyfriend.

[@xelestial_sky]

Them double standards people really be trying these days

[@Echo-nn8dt]

And the thing is it almost seems like she’s aware of that dilemma just from how different present mai acts with future trunks, she’s more open to her feelings for him because they have a mutual adult relationship. Present Trunks is just too immature for Present Mai mentally even though they are both physically the same maturity.

[@adxre0]

Considering minors can’t consent

[@MugiwaraPhoenix]

She could always wish with the dragon ball her real age

[@MugiwaraPhoenix]

So if master roshi makes the same wish a mai and becomes the same age as pan, and they start dating than it isnt werid

[@TacticalLeo]

I think Mai right now is leading a better life than her previous goings. She was a criminal in her past life from a young age and that’s all she knew. The wish made her have a re-do and now look at her. You (in general wording here) mean to tell me she hasn’t gained anything while working at Capsule Corp? She’s probably gained more knowledge now than she did before. She has a complete new life and is prospering. In the manga she’s a teenager again and life will open its doors to her in due time

[@carso1500]

we even see that pilaf and yuu are also around and working for capsule corp too and seem happy with their lot in life (even if pilaf is still trying to get the dragon balls) just as an example we see the usually childish and lazy pilaf work fixing robots and stuff and taking his job very seriously, they had a second shot at life and seem to be growing better than the first time

[@LordMalice6d9]

I wish I could have a redo for my life.

[@Shorai_3]

This is a special case, so the age gap shouldn't be an issue here. When I hear the whining of "ick" all that comes to mind is, "Charlie Brown, you're the only person I know who can take a wonderful season like Christmas and turn it into a problem".

[@SpiritOfSpite]

Mai's situation is an even worse version of the lonely immortals dilemma

[@RejonMunchausen]

Her (and the Pilaf gang) were always written as being emotionally stunted and kinda alien to adult relationship stuff...so in-universe its almost more sad than creepy...but as an audience member it always feels a little off when the Japanese use those tropes quite so regularly

[@MagicCardboardBox]

I mean, they're not actually together right? Doesn't trunks just have a crush on her? Unless she reciprocates with kid trunks, there's not an issue. Hell, if they just wait until trunks is like, 18 or something, it's chill. All that exists on her end now is her having remembered that she had a crush on future trunks, and he's more than old enough for her to like. Although I haven't seen superhero because it's not out anywhere, are they together in that?

[@blueflare4139]

She isn’t in it and seeing how this takes place 6 months and no mention of her no

[@jahnaviketha6300]

If trunks is in second year or third year of high school he should already be 17-18 (since goten's a year younger a he's in high school too)

[@MagicCardboardBox]

@@jahnaviketha6300 yeah, I guess Japanese high school does start at 16 right? After graduation he should be fine to date if she wants to.

[@xelestial_sky]

@@MagicCardboardBox I mean, what's the difference between right now and in a year? Not a significant one.

[@carso1500]

mai isnt interested in present trunks she is more interested in the more mature and brave future trunks but chapter 89 is a very clear set up to make mai see trunks in the sam way that she sees future trunks, so its going to happen also no mai doesnt appear in superhero but thats more because trunks and goten only really appear near the end and 99% of their screen time is fights

[@dinosoid2000]

I don't mind it. There's infinitely more bizarre relationships in manga than Trunks and Mai. Besides I'd imagine most people who found themselves in Mai's position would start dating other teenagers.

[@Diamondr11Blue]

@@SilkenLuna ew

[@nosinsnolights9319]

Aside from how icky that sounds, do you ever talk to teenagers? Don't you feel they're too immature for that? There's a reason Mai was more interested in Future Trunks than in the teenager one.

[@xelestial_sky]

@@nosinsnolights9319 Mai was far less mature than Future Trunks when she was an adult in OG DB and when she was around 7 years old in Super. Would it have been okay for Future Trunks to date her then because she was mentally in her 40s? What you are saying makes no sense. Mai may prefer a mature adult man like Future Trunks, but that doesn't mean if she falls in love with Trunks later that there's anything wrong with that. He's still the same person, just shaped by time.

[@nosinsnolights9319]

@@xelestial_sky please don't put words in my mouth. Like the rest of comments here, I was merely answering to the "anyone in Mai's position would just start dating other teenagers" part.

[@dbc7476]

Hell naw

[@dbzfangirl2654]

No matter how badass Mai might become, if she and trunks actually DO get together she’s just going to be a housewife and a mom like all the other women in the show

[@blueflare4139]

Eh idk bout that bulma is constantly working and involved in the action i could see Mai doing the same

[@dbzfangirl2654]

@@blueflare4139 that’s what I hope, but seeing the ratio…it doesn’t look good for her

[@djtwister6997]

@@blueflare4139 also lazuli was in Top and Moro arc and does plenty of fighting

[@gokulrenjith2738]

Only Chi chi is really a housewife. Bulma and Videl has jobs. 18 actively involves in battles.

[@djtwister6997]

@@gokulrenjith2738 yeah Lazuli fought in TOP arc and Moro

[@Coid]

The Pilaf Gang always gave the vibe of being pretty immature for their ages from the get-go, and that certainly doesn't help with judging what's going on with them in their de-aged forms.

[@gokunenn4243]

That's hardly a excuse...You really think the 42 year old was as inmature as the girl body she had? Not to mention she has proven that before. She was literally drooling everywhere for the Future Trunks.

[@ZeoViolet]

In the context of Dragon Ball, I don't really think this is too weird, any more than it would be weird for Mai as a toddler to realize she'd forgotten how much fun it is just to play with _toys,_ like a toddler, even if she still has all her memories. The Dragon probably has some weigh-in on how to interpret a wish, even if he isn't a total Literal Genie each time. The Pilaf Gang is a trio of "Minions with an F in Evil" so the Dragon decided to interpret their wish as giving them a second chance to get it right, since they aren't that capable of going hardcore in their attempts. That and the whole timeline sagas probably really fricked with everyone's feelings, so the best way to interpret this isn't "weird", so much as "monkeying with godly powers makes tangled knots of people; just go with the flow". And leave it at that.

[@xelestial_sky]

Werd. Trying to apply our normal average logic we would use to have a hypothesis about what it would be like for a situation that's literally impossible in our world is just not gonna work.

[@ZeoViolet]

@@xelestial_sky Hence my prefacing comment, _"In the context of Dragon Ball"?_

[@MugiwaraPhoenix]

So if master roshi makes the same wish a mai and becomes the same age as pan, and they start dating than it isnt werid

[@ma_junia]

There's an ad I saw for for a reality show about a 23 year old woman with a disease that makes her look 8 years old and she mentioned her frustration over her love life/romance

[@Mcgrnwlf]

you literally brought up every conflicting idea I had about that...then again no one brings up how Tuxedo mask was in colledge trying to pick up a 143 year old Usagi

[@theatlascomplex2052]

Okay, I didn’t hear one person complaining during the Goku Black Arc, so why is this such a major issue now?

[@MasakoX]

Because people could dispell it as some kind of awkward 'crush' that would go nowhere...but now it's going somewhere and it's incredibly vague.

[@spartanAXA]

I don't think it's weird, she has never felt like this for anyone. She's getting a normal childhood and a normal teen life for the first time in her life. She deserves to be happy, I won't mind if Trunks & Mai get together at all, they're great together.

[@donttalktomeyoureannoying8736]

I hope they have babies and get married. I love that Mai is reinvented

[@joezar33]

It's a canon ship isn't it ? We all know that Trunks woman in the future now Goten & Yamcha needs to find a GF no 1 bring up the shape shifting Cat lol

[@just_a_rebel8261]

She's living the pedophiles dream

[@M_Alexander]

I said this in the other video but I didn't get the impression that this reignited her emotions, just reminded her of the past crush

[@jahnaviketha6300]

Masako should prolly read the chapter again

[@M_Alexander]

@@jahnaviketha6300 the last two because he got some really weird ideas about them

[@carso1500]

@@M_Alexander he seems to seriously not want mai and present trunks to happen despite the story clearly going on that direction

[@M_Alexander]

@@carso1500 I mean, on the one hand Mai is three years older than Trunks' mom. On the other hand, nobody even mentioned that with the Future couple

[@gokunenn4243]

@M_Alexander Because the Future couple were two adults completely unknown to each other? I can't believe you are seriously comparing a relationship where the youngest is in his 30s to a literal minor.

[@msbkaioken136]

This nontroversy is a prime example of failing to separate fiction from reality to such an egregious extent people must be mentally unwell

[@Xylospring]

For some people, Fiction is reality. I remember when was 6 or 7 and tried to roll down the Stairs like Sonic the Hedgehog.

[@JesaCasarez]

@@Xylospring Yeah but that is you being a kid at 6 or 7 which is normal. If someone is an adult but still can't separate fiction from reality that's a actual problem.

[@Xylospring]

@@JesaCasarez Sadly it's a lot of people nowadays. And they're a growing breed. I still hope that one guy on Tiktok is joking...Man Thinks Bankai and Super Saiyan are real and the Gov is trying to hide them.

[@JesaCasarez]

@@Xylospring Wow, that's uh, yeah. I also hope that's a joke because that is a bit sad if that person is serious about Super Saiyan and Bankai being real.😅

[@xelestial_sky]

While I do think this is a non-issue. Fiction and reality cannot be altogether separated because it is part of culture and does influence people, especially kids and their actions perceptions of what's right and okay and what's not right and okay. Fiction inspires and informs many people.

[@MsDarkz123]

10:33 I'll argue that Pilaf himself can be more interesting than Mai. The dude seems kinda of an eccentric genius seeing how well he can handle technology specially regarding to the Dragon Balls I don't remember right now if we ever see his own version of the radar but as many times as he has collected them I'll say his precision is better than the one the Red Ribbon Army had so he could maybe even rival Bulma's radar efficiency and then he even invented a suitcase that made the Balls undetectable! Shame you never give a good idea more than one try... Then there's Mai and Shu's loyalty towards him he certainly must treat them well enough and with respect to stick with him til the end maybe they saw a side of him we the audience never have or maybe admire his eccentric genius and genuinely want him to succeed on taking over the world and that his rule will be more beneficial in general than just personally to them. Honestly I always had in mind that it would be a pretty good Toriyama style joke if some kind of ending for Dragon Ball revolved around Pilaf finally fullfilling that old wish of taking over the world and Shenron conceding it in the more mundane way possible just giving him magically the charge of King of the Earth and people treating it like if it was normal and throw in the twist that he would actually be a pretty good ruler for the planet.

[@KavinCatastrophe]

is Mai going to just be alone forever because of her circumstances? Almost anyone she dates she going to be older than them. Even if she waits and dates a grown Man. She still technically Way older than that Man. And I’m pretty sure other anime’s has done this whole Character is a 1000 years but still get into a relationship thing.

[@xelestial_sky]

Yeah Inuyasha is one of them. I felt like THAT was ick for various reasons.

[@R.J.Godzilla81]

I think Mai not recognizing Trunks was done on purpose, it’s a Superman/Lois Lane reference

[@Gigabarto]

saying that the pair of maiXtrunks is weird is kinda dumb, mai's body is that of a teenager, frankly i find this more normal than the typical 1000 year old immortal that fall in love with the protagonist in any isekai manga.

[@Orurandokun]

I honestly believe that the idea is that a kid will always be a kid, and a teenager will always be a teenager, no matter what. So the brain will behave depending in your body maturity. Meaning that there will be always a connection between the two.

[@noguard8528]

As someone who doesn't really have much knowledge on the Pilaf gang having only watch DBZ and reading Super I don't mind. I'm only attached to the current younger Mai and her relationship with Trunks feels like an Elf and Human relationship. Like Aragorn and Eowyn from LOTR. Considering it's a Shonen I don't think it will get explicit and make it weird.

[@EmilioReyes_97]

....i had no idea/forgot you were the same guy who voices abriged Goku and i was NOT expecting it 0_0

[@Topgunnder]

I feel like a lot of the fandom overlooks the fact that mai is older than Bulma dating a minor- it feels weird as heck - I don't know if anyone else feels the same

[@MasakoX]

I think that's why it's all getting awkward. But at least right now, Mai in the present isn't into Trunks.

[@saadsami8860]

I really don't ever feel like it's weird at all

[@msbkaioken136]

I feel like a lot of the fandom overlooks somehow that she was turned back into a kid this is such a stupid nontroversy

[@Xylospring]

@@saadsami8860 Feels more like a second shot at life without being a villian. Though the memories should be obscured. I'd find it more interested if Seeing Beta 2 caused some weird Deja Vu.

[@sootythunder3111]

@@MasakoX I put it more in the category of things like jobless reincarnation and other stories where someone dies and gets reincarnated as an infant in another world while still maintaining their inner dialogue from their adult life it’s so far clearly in the world of fantasy and fiction that all I can do is shrug

[@WWalton1996]

Here's a question, the additional years she lived but has now returned to youth, dating someone about the same age, would that be a problem if she was a vampire character rather than wished young again? With vampire romance it's always much older people being into INSANELY younger people by their own standard, but at least with Mai the character has physically and clearly at least SOMEWHAT mentally devolved due to the transition to youth and having to grow up all over again. I feel like somehow this is LESS creepy than vampire fiction, and yet even in vampire fiction it doesn't tend to bother me (if you don't overthink it lol).

[@nosinsnolights9319]

Kind of like what happened to Royal Pain on Sky High.

[@Coid]

To be fair, part of that is that because you expect vampires to be predators in some ways, you don't really pay as much mind to them being predators in other ways.

[@xelestial_sky]

@@Coid Which shows its just a problem with our perception if we're fine with watching predators be predators in a relationship. And the power imbalance is so much worse there because they're literally more powerful and literally preying on the human for blood.

[@bigounce8549]

Thats why vampires are considered monsters and the only reasons these stories were appropriate is because they were written 1800 were it was appropriate for a 13 year old girl to marry a 40 year old man. Even still alot of people have problems with the twilight series because edward is not only a controlling psychopath but hes also 100 years old dating a 17 year old

[@hitsurei]

People debating about fictional things that doesn't really matter still makes me laugh tbh. Especially something that understandable, but people keeps twisting the story like reality comes into play on those fictional situations.

[@dustiiyork3907]

I don't rlly look at it that deep, it's kind like twilight where the 100 year old vampire goes to highschool looking for girls , but I think toyo setting it up to where she's not interested in trunk's because he is childish but will develop feelings for him probably when he matures , say what you will of that whole situation, but It doesn't sour my dragon ball experience at all

[@noob_jr_2sjrkc]

I think Masako misread the current present Mai situation somewhat. It's not that she "couldn't feel anything" for these past few years, it's that she carried a crush on future Trunks all this time he was gone. She was attracted to the hardened future warrior, not the present childish goofball. It's only when he acted heroic that he started resembling his future self. So if present Trunks matures into a more serious adult, she will probably redirect those feelings to him. And then what would be the difference to the future Trunks/Mai situation? The ages would be the same they were then, present Trunks just takes longer to mature. Japan does seem to have a trend of making mental/physical ages differ and it can be weird when those characters get into relationships.

[@jahnaviketha6300]

Not Masako misreading dialogues lol

[@xelestial_sky]

Tbh. She just wants her adult husbando from the future and that's fair.

[@_Tzer]

@@xelestial_sky Who doesn't want future trunks he has a cool sword.

[@AL7249]

Yeah it was odd hearing how much this was overlooked tbh. But it's nice knowing how passionate he is about it.

[@broopont2239]

The deal was sealed on Present Trunks and Mai ending up together when we found out their Future-counterparts ended up together. We shouldn’t really expect a deviation from that. And as weird as it def is, Mai and the Pilaf gang can really only have relationships with people around their biological age. Them dating people their mental age that are biologically way older would be even weirder i think.

[@MagicCardboardBox]

I mean, why have them date at all until they're biologically over 18 or whatever? No moral dilemmas after that. Just wait a bit and you're good.

[@KingKeanuTheFirst]

@@MagicCardboardBox, no one is really comfortable with an 80 year old dating an 18 year old, Mai is at the very probably 60 years old, she's nearing 70 at this point.

[@TheODLawson23]

@@KingKeanuTheFirst She is in her 40s, not 60 years old.

[@lizard1255]

@@TheODLawson23 there is absolutely no way Mai is in her 40s. Goku is already almost 50 himself and Mai was already at least over 18 when Goku was 12. So at minimum she would have to be mid 50s, but even potentially older.

[@AstraFulminous]

@@lizard1255 The actual truth is we dont event know that to begin with. Her birthdate is speculative not actually confirmed. However using age 737 as a guide they are correct with thinking she would have between 46 - 47 if she aged normally. But she didn't. In fact most of the z crew haven't age normally due other world shenanigans and the hyperbolic time chamber. Which due to spending some time with Goten in the chamer with Trunks should technically already 18 - 19 himself anyhow. This arc takes place 8 months before super hero which in 782/3 - 784 depending on wherever all this low and high ends. And yes by the power math and knowing the series I just proved Mai and Trunks current age

[@jamses4532]

Unfortunately, I'm in the camp that if the creators don't care about the real world consequences, I shouldn't either. Dragonball's romantic relationships have always been an afterthought. Most of the couples got together off screen, and that might be another reason this couple makes people feel awkward; we're actually seeing it happen. If people feel awkward about it that's fine, just don't accuse the creators or readers that don't mind it of endorsing morally reprehensible acts.

[@xelestial_sky]

No fr. Especially because the storyline is not literally an actual 50 year old woman and 16 year old boy getting together. I will say that as a writer I absolutely don't agree with your view on not caring just because the creators don't.

[@Danganraptor]

@@xelestial_sky A reminder that 16 is, in most places, the age of consent, Japan included. For what it's worth, while it *is* an awkward situation, it'd be a LOT worse if Mai reciprocated Trunks's feelings from the get-go. As it stands, the romantic sub plot is, at best, in flux. Maybe it'll happen when Trunks starts maturing, but as it stands, I'm generally not into Dragon Ball for the romantic sub plots, and Mai/Trunks doesn't seem like it's going anywhere beyond teasing from the writers.

[@reagenlionel]

This doesn't bother me. Looking back on her actual age prevents her from actually living. Its arbitrary at this point. Its basically reincarnation but keeping the body she knew. Who else would she have a relationship with that wouldn't be problematic? The best case is someone around her near biological age, which is the important part here anyway.

[@gokunenn4243]

Literally having a relationship with any adult would not be problematic. No one finds the Future couple problematic. The problem is starting a relationship with a minor who you have 30 years old of age gap. If you don't see how that's a problem, that's more on your morality.

[@Ms.FortuneTeller]

What makes Trunks and Mai's relationship weird to me isn't the age gap, but how long Mai has been around in Dragon Ball (she was introduced when Bulma was only 16) and how long they have known each other. Trunks met Mai when he was 11 or 12 and I guess they have lived together since. Also, does Bulma know who Mai really is? If she does, isn't it out of character of her to not be bothered at all by Trunks having a crush on Mai? She is a traditional woman, isn't she? Future Mai is a good character, but all of this could've been avoided if she was just a random woman, not Mai. It's not like she needs to be Mai for the story to work.

[@TheZephyrsWind]

Actually, to me, Mai was one of the most likeable characters in the original DB.

[@PlusUltraMan]

I'm personally hoping this will all end with Mai very maturely turning Trunks down or at the very least if it just has to happen ask him to wait until they're older so it can be at least a small bit less problematic..

[@R.J.Godzilla81]

Also doesn’t Bulma keep using the Dragon Balls to make herself younger? How is that much different from Mai?

[@ms.trashcan8187]

She uses them to keep a youthful look but she never went as far to change her age

[@R.J.Godzilla81]

@@ms.trashcan8187 What do you think you’re doing when you keep a “youthful” look? And the things she’s fixing ARE making her look younger than she is. Just not 35 years younger (which would make her a toddler). She just changes herself up to the point where everyone would notice. That will change in time. It’s like someone who starts getting plastic surgery. Sure it starts off as a nip here, a tuck there, but eventually they just go crazy with it. And that’s what she’s using Shenron as, a mystic plastic surgeon.

[@SmashSSL]

She's not abusing minors, perhaps?

[@Darkflo23]

@@SmashSSL Mai is ? She clearly show no interest in current Truniks.

[@Darkflo23]

@@sanabanaqt Meh, it's more like a minor has a crush on her, she clearly don't.

[@DJSkywalker716]

I don't really understand what the difference is between the present and future versions of this relationship? It's the exact same situation only a few years younger. Does the situation suddenly change when they turn 18 (physically in Mai's case)?

[@RingtailGaming55]

Mai. Is. Over. 60. Years. Old. Trunks is a teenager. Why is this hard to understand

[@Krolus]

@RingtailGaming so what should a physically 16 year old girl only date 60 year Olds? Should she remain alone because she is out of time with everyone?

[@SionReaver]

@@Krolus Its a interesting question. Because if she was stuck that age physically, some people would say yes she should.

[@miguelnewmexico8641]

@@RingtailGaming55 where. did. you. get. that. number?

[@EndoScorpion]

The difference is that future Mai met and dated future Trunks when they were both adults - but present timeline, Trunks was 12 in Battle of Gods, Mai was 41. The problem is a 40-something being interested in a pre-pubescent teen. Even if she waited until he was an adult, it's still creepy grromer vibes. In the future timeline, he was already an adult before they met, so not an issue.

[@doctorkimochi]

they remembered Mai, doesn't bring back Lunch unless it's a hidden cameo when Vegita's brother came to visit.

[@SoranotRoxas]

I don't think present Mai will end up with Trunks like his future counterpart did. I just have a feeling they are setting Trunks up to be with someone else, and to feeling his first disappointment with Mai rejecting him.

[@fnspidey3825]

I don't see that happening

[@xelestial_sky]

I personally think they will end up together. There just may be a detour or delay.

[@carso1500]

this entire arc is basically just a set up to get mai to see present trunks in the same way that she sees future trunks, and for trunks to grow a little bit to impress mai

[@ntrntzmb]

We often forget one thing when discussing rejuvenating someone to a previous stage of development and/or outright changing species; brain chemistry and development. That would bring way more nuance to the subject and could lead to interesting exploration of the psyche...

[@xelestial_sky]

I have been waiting for someone to say this. The brain literally is not the same from age 01 to 99. It develops and changes

[@pedanticat9479]

I will never understand this decision to hook up Mai with Trunks. Like, why?

[@TheODLawson23]

Eiko Yamada is the Japanese voice of Mai and Future Mai. It was her idea and she was the one who asked Toriyama to pair Mai with Trunks. Toriyama agreed with her. Or it was Toriyama's idea.

[@xelestial_sky]

@@TheODLawson23 source

[@TheODLawson23]

@@xelestial_sky A few years ago, I remember what from I've read that someone posted the interview on the DB forum blog...it was posted in 2013 after Battle of Gods movie came out.

[@fnspidey3825]

I really think people are blowing this out of proportion

[@MasakoX]

I reckon that the main reason this is blown up again is that it's getting a little too real and Trunks is down bad. Somebody needs to tell him...

[@fnspidey3825]

@@MasakoX I'm pretty sure that's going to happen and what happens after will show where it'll go

[@PrinceVega]

I agree with you. We, as westerners, tend to obsessively overanalyze such details. It's really not a big deal for Toriyama or Toyotarou, especially since Toriyama has the habit of forgetting that certain characters even exist. *cough* Lunch *cough*

[@monsunoguy19]

Honestly, Mai doesn't carry herself as her real age or atleast on screen. The whole pilaf gang came off as children just a bit more clever. Even future Mai carried herself as someone around Trunks' age at the time. No late 70 year old mindset.

[@jmantime]

Makes me wonder how Android 18, Videl , Chi-chi and other female side characters are feeling in their day-to-day lives off camera. we saw Launch getting drunk at a bar in early DBZ, i wonder what the other girls do when we aren't looking.

[@xelestial_sky]

Well, from the little bit we have seen in various content, 18 seems very focused and devoted to being a mother atm, but concerned about money. She seems otherwise very satisfied with her relationship. Videl seems extremely happy and satisfied with her family and works as a martial arts teacher. Chichi is probably the most stressed as she has Goku who is a crazy crackhead who runs off at any interval. But I also see that she usually enjoys being a housewife and mother and finds it fulfilling, and really genuinely is happy with her husband. We have seen her helping out with farming, cooking, shopping, cleaning, etc.

[@timbomb374]

Watching through the original dragonball I always wanted Mai to have something nice happen to her lol

[@andre-o-city]

mai going to high school, while looking good for capsule corp and the story, makes no since?? like do shoe and pilaf just cease as soon as mai hits her growth spurt? i get they look weird together with tall mai, but like, thats how they started??? edit: and for that matter, why arent pilaf and shoe in school?? i get it human teen drama city but the people of earth are just super cool with dinos and the dragon Sheron and zombies and demons but not monster type earthlings? what kinda crap is that? and i think the pilaf gang couldve been a cool teen bully group

[@KraigZero]

I think Mai can be a catalyst for Trunks to stop being so immature at one point at start to act like he should, not so much as his future counterpart but rather his own version of a grown up, and even if Mai doesn't end with Trunks it seems that is heading that way in some regards but we don't know if it is for sure.

[@carso1500]

im just going to say this, trunks and mai are going to end up together the whole story is shaping up for that and its dropping hints like crazy by starting to do some comparisons between future trunks and present trunks and mai's crush on him, the way bulma looks at both mai and trunks, etc its going to happen, i would be surprised if it doesnt since this has been the case since battle of gods like if present trunks matures and becomes more of an adult then what would be the diference between their relationship and future mai and future trunks, both have the exact same age gap

[@_Tzer]

can't believe they had to write a whole comic explaining how future mai was made in the first place because of the whole dragon not being around and her not being an old bag.

[@johanstenfelt1206]

Hm, honestly, I think Mai is a very interesting Character, at least more interesting than Pilaf and Shu, i really hope we get to see more of her moving forward and that she’s handled well enough, i think there’s a lot of potential here, But i guess we’ll just have to wait and see. Also, how do you think a Saga “where Pilaf makes a Comeback to Being a Legit Main Antagonist again” would play out and be like?

[@TRAILLER]

I was thinking more along the line that Mai was experiencing a Midlife Crisis, despite her teenage body, until Saiyaman X 1 reignited her hearth.

[@gokunenn4243]

Why would she get a midllife crisis at 50 mental years?

[@seanread5556]

as far as present Mai being as badass as Future Mai, that's unlikely, they AREN'T the same person. Future Mai, just like future Trunks, had a much harsher life that left them much more serious and militaristic. That changed them as a person. And for the elephant in the room, the present pair's relationship? On a meta level, i dont think you are supposed to think about it too much. At the same time, while to our cultural sensibilities it is pretty icky I want to play devil's advocate and say its perhaps not QUITE as weird as you would originally think, due to the very unusual circumstances. A big part of the issue of an age gap in a relationship comes from problems that can be caused down the line , such as a partner dying of old age far before the other as well as the moral concern of a far more mature person effectively taking advantage of a person who is too mentally immature to understand what they are getting in to. The first one is a moot point because the dragonballs made them the same age. The second is a lot harder to parse, but it seems to be implied that Mai's mind has been somewhat 'aged down' as well. That combined with her relative unwillingness to pursue Trunks, with him doing most of the chasing, makes an argument for the idea that she's not REALLY taking advantage of him in any way. yes, the circumstances of them pairing up are certainly very unconventional, but I could argue it's not quite as FBI-OPEN-UP as you might originally think?

[@gokunenn4243]

You clearly don't understand the problem at all. It's just not morally rigjt for someone to date a literal minor with 30 years of age difference. It has nothing to do with the older part dying early or anything. Mai has also not been shown to deage mentally in literally any way, that's pure headcanon. She was also drooling for the 30s yeat old Future Trunks. It's clear she still has her adult mind. That's how they survived as babies to begin with.

[@PastaB01]

my headcanon is that when pilaf, mai, and shu got turned into babies, because they were made so young, they all almost immediately forgot everything they knew about their past lives, and just grew up chasing the dragon balls because they found a radar from some shopkeep who started telling stories, like that shopkeep in early dragon ball who sold fake dragon balls

[@Xylospring]

I love it! Memories mostly gone leading them to funnily enough sorta fall down the same path sorta, but as kids, and a different environment leading to better circumstances.

[@suohd.sunking6964]

Well the whole "lost their memories" thing doesn't really work, especially since Pilaf stated himself that he still had this memories when he talked about making the wish to be younger.

[@Xylospring]

@@suohd.sunking6964 They should really retcon that. One of the few times I will actually support one.

[@Diamondr11Blue]

No they didn't. Battle of God's said mais 40th bday was next week. Yall dum af

[@Diamondr11Blue]

@@Xylospring hell no. Nobody would be supporting this pdo ship if it was a man

[@shawnleeguku]

I'll be honest, I tend to fall on the "everyone's overthinking this" side of this discussion. It's not a situation that's ever going to be a moral issue in the real world, at least in our lifetimes, and I don't think anyone who "ships" these two is in any way condoning this. It's the kind of circumstance that can only come about in a universe with fantastical elements like the Dragon Balls. The relationship doesn't come across as predatory in any of their interactions.

[@xelestial_sky]

1000%

[@ezanawright7971]

ok saul goodman

[@kennethcarloscomar6900]

Wsp saul

[@maxgrubb4758]

To be fair at some point in their story Mai's reset will start feeling equivilant to saiyans slow aging....maybe. Goku and Vegeta in their upper 50s looking 25 has ChiChi and Bulma depressed.

[@maxgrubb4758]

Bulma is wishing to be younger bit by bit keeping her old mind. She just does in single 5-10 year bursts.

[@Xylospring]

@@maxgrubb4758 I really don't like that she did that. I kinda hope that just speeds up the Shadow Dragons.

[@maxgrubb4758]

@@Xylospring There should definitely be consequences at some point. But I don't think it'll be for those wishes. Gotta think about some other frivilous stuff mortals would wish for if they found them. Money, power.......underwear.....😆

[@Xylospring]

@@maxgrubb4758 Fair point. But DAMN. It would be good in a Vain situation. Hell, even Goku seemed disgusted at the Wishes. I'd find it interesting if revoking those wishes would weaken the Dragons in a battle. Though how it would be done is curious...

[@vianjelos]

@@maxgrubb4758 Bulma makes no sense..why couldnt she wish to simply stop aging physically? Like for her to retain her youthful apperance the whole time or at least to match saiyans aging so her and vegeta can match age wise?

[@PabloHernandez-gl5ij]

Honestly I for one hope they give her more character and not forget about her like lunch the character not the meal. 😂

[@mauridelb]

I always hated the idea of Mai and Trunks pairing

[@theclown5763]

Trunks and Ranch are way better!

[@geomejia8946]

they could def have that “romance” in dbs…imagine mai continues to reject trunks, he realizes this and stops trying but saves her from something maybe even going ssj2 and mai realizes and crushes on him

[@SttudDioPierrot]

The most important thing to remember is that Toriyama hates romance, so Trunks' and Mai's relationship is more than likely being played as a Gag. Also remember that Future Trunks and Trunks are 2 Completely different characters. Mai was attracted to the Mature, Humble, Selfless Future Trunks. Present Trunks is immature (Wants danger), Cocky (Brags to Mai about being a better Basketball player than the kid he lost too) and selfish (was willing to reveal his identity for clout)

[@MasakoX]

Should love and healthy relationships be reduced to gag material?

[@ragingguts]

Toriyama doesn't hate romance he just hates writing romances because hes not good at it.

[@SttudDioPierrot]

@@MasakoX when the 15 year old has a crush on the 40 year old (In the body of a 15 year old) yes. Absolutely should be played as a Gag. It's not meant to be taken seriously because they shouldn't have a relationship until he's an adult. And that in itself is trunks character arc. Mai isn't gonna fall for him until he becomes as mature as Future Trunks.

[@TheODLawson23]

@@SttudDioPierrot She should know Present Trunks and Future Trunks are different personalities. She should accept that Present Trunks is immature. She waiting for him becoming as mature as Future Trunks is a waste of time.

[@SttudDioPierrot]

@@TheODLawson23 It's not about accepting his Immaturity, it's about attraction. At the moment Mai has Zero romantic interest in present Trunks...Because She's 40 and he acts like a kid...because he's a kid. That's the Joke. It's literally the dbz version of Brock confessing his feelings to Officer Jenny/Nurse Joy.

[@JeanneFeisont]

I mean, she’s done nothing with Trunks, and now Trunks is close to being a legal adult, and they haven’t even begun doing anything remotely romantic even in their High School days. There’s no issue at all if they actually become a thing at some point.

[@X_Blake]

It's a mixbag. On one hand she's the same age as Trunks so technically it's no big deal. But on the other she's still a grown woman in her youth form. It's understandable why some people sees this as a YIKES moment for Toriyama and Torotaro.

[@Xylospring]

I mean, Does Toyotaro even have a choice?

[@X_Blake]

@@Xylospring Whether he has a choice or not. It's still a technical yikes moment he's never going to erase.

[@xelestial_sky]

@@X_Blake I think he's handling it just fine. It would be yikes to me if he had Mai be all over Trunks all their lives. But that isn't the case.

[@pilloeglade5463]

I don't really understand why Mai is so sad and soulless. Like I'm more interested in what is causing it? Depression? A chemical imbalance? And to think the only way for Mai to be happy is to remember Future Trunks is already pretty bad...and stupid. But right on the mark for this franchise and a lot of Japanese fictional media when it comes to how women...operate.

[@jahnaviketha6300]

Masako just misread the dialogue lol

[@legendarycryptid2629]

At least Future Trunks was an adult when people shipped them... Present Trunks ain't in his 20s yet, so it can get kinda squicky for most since he still has a few years before adulthood.

[@MasakoX]

Yeah, that Future Trunks/Mai relationship was fine...but this present version is problematic.

[@methos4866]

Maybe they'll set it up but only pull the trigger on it when Trunks is 18 in the story. I have no idea how old Trunks is at this point though.

[@callanadamwilliams8200]

@@MasakoX but nothing has happened yet. Trunks is almost 18 so maybe they are saving the relationship for when he is a bit older, which is perfectly fine as they would both be adults.

[@Doyoueverwonderwhywerehere]

Japanese culture Legal age of consent is 14 Please do some research and stop using western ideals and stop making it such a big deal on the time of Goku black arc present trunks was 14 now he's closer to 19 given the super hero movie takes place five years after super

[@thefanwithoutaface8105]

Here's a question is it any weirder than Krillin having a relationship with Android 18 who based on what we've been told was turned into an Android when she was a teenager and has been kept in statis most of her life?

[@miguelnewmexico8641]

i think she can still age.

[@thefanwithoutaface8105]

@@miguelnewmexico8641 Nope, Toriyama himself confirmed that 18 can't age her body is never gonna age or grow old, because well why exactly would it. She's designed to be an ultimate lifeform and as we saw in History of Trunks despite decades passing neither she nor her brother looked any different.

[@xelestial_sky]

Yeah their relationship has always kind of bugged me because it's shown at end of Z that Krillin looks like an old man and 18 still looks barely 20

[@iced2594]

Honestly I'm not holding my breath for this because they have a history of forgetting about most of their female characters if anything they might reduce her character to head scientist or in charge of R&D to replace Bulma

[@blueflare4139]

My thoughts exactly even though trunks is supposed to be good with tech 💀

[@Xylospring]

@@blueflare4139 I'm still confused how he's bad with it. It's either they forgot, or tried to do a Pun that went over my head or fell Flatter than 16s- Head.

[@blueflare4139]

@@Xylospring me too that left a weird feeling it’s not a pun at all . I just don’t understand it

[@TeamTowers1]

Honestly they could pretty easily dial down the ick factor a good bit (although not eliminate it entirely), by establishing that Mai was turned back to a kid not just in body but in mind and sole. Yes it would contradict earlier stuff, but it would hardly be the first casual retcon in DB.

[@fernandobanda5734]

What does it mean to turn back to a kid "in mind"? There's not a lot of palpable differences except our memories and experiences. Unless you meant completely reverse her memories and everything.

[@TeamTowers1]

@@fernandobanda5734 "Unless you meant completely reverse her memories and everything." pretty much that.

[@rya3190]

I just viewed it like a vampire: they deserve love (Not Twilight...he basically groomed and stalked her). While I probably would feel a bit creeped out with a teenage relationship, if she's actually in love and not lusting after him (and potentially still going through the growing up process), I can't see it being the worst thing...

[@dontburstmybubble686]

Hey MasakoX! I've never heard your real voice. Thank you for acting as TFS goku. I've been rewatching all of the TFS dragonball stuff because life is hard and it gives me nostalgic comfort. Also thank you for discussing this. I never watched Super but when I saw clips, I was very confused because I didn't watch the original series but I knew Mai was in it as Pilaf's minion. This means that she was not only older than Trunks but probably his father as well and that just did/does not really sit well with me. And when you brought up the present mai situation, that seemed even worse.

[@callanadamwilliams8200]

I actually like the whole Trunks and Mai dynamic. I must be one of the few people who likes this ship. Dragonball is a silly series, this isn't the weirdest relationship in Dragonball. Hell isn't 18 technically in the body of a teenager? So wouldn't the Krillin and 18 relatioship be weirder? How about Tarble and the little green alien, that is far weirder. People are overthinking things, Dragonball isn't a super serious series and people shouldn't overthink things.

[@ABoredGod]

nah shes 18

[@nosinsnolights9319]

We don't know what age 18 was supposed to look like. She essentially has the same height as other adult females. Problem is, with Mai we know she's at the bare minimum the same age as Bulma. I'd say it's likely she's older. And for us who were raised with DB, it's hard to ignore.

[@CaptainQ2607]

I just want to know if Bluma at least knows that they are the pilaf gang. Maybe that's why she employed them, keep them out of time. The age thing doesn't bother me though.

[@tylercoon1791]

Honestly, the best way for the whole Trunks x Mai situation to end is just as Mai is about to confess to Trunks, Pilaf manages to get the dragon balls and wish him and his gang back to normal age, and it’s played off as a gag, and that’s where it ends.

[@Satepin]

and then she dies of old, what a gag

[@tylercoon1791]

@@Satepin she’s not that much older than goku though

[@ShiiroHasu]

idk I feel at this point in time they wouldn't really care about returning to their original ages anymore

[@bigounce8549]

@@Satepin shes 50, not 150 years old

[@carso1500]

@@ShiiroHasu yeah, at least pilaf and shuu seem to have adapted to the whole "young again" so i doubt they would want to return to their old selfs

[@lostsoul2158]

All im gonna say is imagine if Goku was in his 40's being turned into a kid and got with Chi-Chi when she was Dragon Ball age... weird isnt it?

[@machbass]

After nearly a decade of being aged back, spending that time as a kid, and growing up with Trunks essentially, I think it makes sense. On paper and with ambiguous time skips, it does sound and seem bad. But I bet if we got a side Manga about Mai growing up on a daily basis, we'd be more understanding. At what point do you decide this is just your new self? Admittedly, the right answer here is for her to just wish herself back to normal..

[@xelestial_sky]

What would be the point? She was immature and emotionally stunted in the first place. She was a grown woman that acted like a middle schooler. And if she aged herself back up after growing up again, I can't even imagine how screwed up she'd be mentally.