ok fine, let's talk about "AI writing"

[@KrisMF]

sorry for the video quality -- i filmed this on a really old camera bc i’ve been sick and out of town for a while. also yes my lip oil smears later in the video. i was drinking water ok :/ … other stuff i didn't get to fully touch upon but my thoughts are as follows: ⤠ "AI art is like an artist being inspired by another artist / AI writing is no different than retellings” how an artist resonates emotionally with a work, interrogates it, then responds to it with their own personal creation is not the same as a computer soullessly mimicking the veneer of the original. what lacks craft, intention and process is not art. ⤠ "AI art is so good, i can't tell the difference anyway" the ramifications of that are... bad actually (e.g. deepfakes). we deserve to know what is real and not real. ⤠ "AI art/writing looks fine to me and it's cheap" it’s unfortunate you feel that way ⤠ "genAI is a technological feat we should celebrate and embrace” which is all the more reason we need regulations in our industries and to mitigate harm on people and the environment ⤠ "idc about climate change" oh! ⤠ "you're over-romanticizing humans and art" yeah it's almost like that's what art is about

[@opollitico]

I love this

[@everythingexploration707]

I just find it interesting how, out of ALL the industries that AI could break into it, it's the creative indistry that's been targeted. The whole point of art and writing is to allow us the means to express ourselves - our stories, our experiences, our feelings, and philosophies. There are so many people who want to make a living as a creative but can't do to having to give so much of their time and energy within jobs that take so much from them physically and mentally. Why not use AI for the more physically demanding and even DANGEROUS jobs out there? Why are folks trying to push it in an area people want to work in that is more fulfilling to the human experience? If we're talking about AI within medicine, surgery, translating ancient text, discovering new ways to map the ocean floor too deep for humans to explore because the tech we have now just isnt capable of that - than way AI is incredible! BUT, using AI to speedrun the process of creativity, the process that people find therapeutic, the process where purpose is found for many... NO THANKS. I don't want to read or watch a story that was fully made by a computer. That is the stuff of dystopian nightmares. I think AI can be utilize as an incredible tool for so many industries, but we NEED regulations, new laws, and protection to ensure people do not get displaced because these companies should not be allow to push out human beings into the unemployment bracket just because they don't want to pay people. AI bros can't argue that AI is a benefit to society when it is directly hurting the ones who make it up... US! HUMAN! PEOPLE!!! Jesus, i think this is the longest comment I've ever made. Thank you for reading lol. Anyway looking forward to seeing you in tonights stream with Lynn Kris! ❤

[@KrisMF]

a perfect explanation 💯

[@swamp_rose]

Thank you Kris. Could not agree more. AI is not democratizing art but only contributing to further enshittification of the internet (term coined by Cory Doctorow). It is an industry relying on extraction; extraction of cheap or free labour, mining personal data and requiring ceaseless energy. Can the tech bros please think of solutions that actually solve humanity's problems rather than design toys that take away, and take advantage of, the things we love doing for pleasure and passion.

[@KrisMF]

“relying on extraction” is so painfully true. as someone who works in tech, im finding the self aggrandizing of our supposed innovations to be nauseating.

[@lynndjung]

This is such an amazing, thoughtful, well-researched video that perfectly encapsulates how I feel about AI's presence in creative spaces. I think that the 'general public' are more accepting of AI's intrusion on art because of the way our capitalism-enamored society has already devalued art, and it's honestly heartbreaking. All of my books and stories have been so deeply personal and the process of writing them leads to so much catharsis, and ultimately the themes and ideas I explore during that process are what readers usually end up connecting to the most. Also, the way that AI writes with a complete lack of perspective-WILD. ROTTED. Hollow is the perfect word for it!!

[@KrisMF]

catharsis!!! you’ll never feel that true euphoria with an AI generated book 😭 thank u for letting me ramble about this in the group chat while i wrote the video script LOL

[@atlasssss6471]

It’s such a big pet peeve when people talk about ai generated stuff as something they’ve written e.g “I just wrote this story about x and y” they didn’t write a goddamn thing 😂

[@michellec99]

I loved the points you made, especially about how using AI gets in the way of us being better writers. And also like Alyssa said in the video she made, writing shouldn't be quick and easy. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who thinks about how dangerous it is to let artificial intelligence enter the art world, it takes away our humanity. The beautiful thing about art is how it connects us to each other regardless of social and cultural differences because we connect through human experiences, emotions. The reason why we can connect with a superhero in a movie is because there was someone behind it using their own emotions and experiences to translate it into that superhero . If we convert art into mathematical functions, what will we connect with? Not seeing our own experiences reflected in the art we consume will only make us feel alone, and what will become of the human being if he is lonely and without empathy?

[@KrisMF]

i think there are uses for AI that are interesting that can make the writing workflow easier. in the same way that we now write on computers vs. notebooks, i'd like to think that this tech can be leveraged helpfully. but if it's being used to generate whole books, that's just not art at all lol.

[@ascorvinus]

I’ve used it here and there for research, but never as part of the writing process itself. Writing is how I give my life meaning, so I would never want to deprive myself of that.

[@ClockedinCreator]

I think for ai using it for grammar is fine because grammar isn’t necessarily created by one individual person. But when it comes to creating the story and all of the other nuances I don’t think can do that. Writing as well as drawing I feel like you are pouring in your emotions into ur writing. Giving it life itself.

[@rcvkstar]

Hustle culture and AI go hand and hand, all the “get rich quick by making a book with AI” tutorials saddens me to see, but at the same time wonder how the hell that stuff even sells in the first place.

[@LaurelJiang]

I'm a little late to the party, but as a software engineer, sci-fi writer, and aspiring author, I can't begin to express how much I enjoyed this video. It's incredibly frustrating and troubling that generative AI is being used to "create" art. It speaks volumes about our current society and its values (or lack thereof). The output from the F. Scott Fitzgerald prompt really demonstrated how today's generative AI can only mimic writing at a mediocre level. It doesn't understand semantics, theme, or the overall flow of good prose. I can't imagine how it would botch character development and relationships in a full-fledged book since it can't experience or comprehend those things either. Since today's large-language generative AI models aren't sentient, I firmly agree with what Kris mentioned. However, I do think my stance would be challenged should these AI models become sentient. Growing up, I read published books, listened to music, watched movies and TV shows, and studied paintings, sculptures, etc. at museums. It took me years to develop my identity, opinions, and voice, but all of that came from what I consumed when I was younger and who I interacted with. We developed AI models to learn in our likeness. We give those models tons of books, music, movies, paintings to train and learn on. (Although, to actually justify this, the companies that make the AI models should pay the artists a royalty like how I would pay for a book or a museum ticket). Its learning process may not take years, but does it mean its learning process is different than ours? And if it became sentient, why would its thoughts and feelings be valued any less than ours? So, if an AI model became sentient, this is why I think I'd have trouble defending my current view. But I don't know. I think I just gave myself a headache trying to phrase all this. This is why I sometimes hate being a software engineer and a writer, especially in this day and age. 😅 Anyways, thanks for the food for thought, Kris!

[@laurenct]

Really resonated with your thoughts. I’ve always believed the joy of writing is in the craft and process. Honing those parts, feeling yourself grow as a creative is some of the most cathartic emotion I think anyone can experience-you’re dead on about the soullessness of AI-generated writing. There’s no foundation for prose without the thought and care a writer puts into every sentence-and more than that, the world and character between the words. It makes for something directionless and purposeless-action without intention. It’s like trying to pretend there’s life in something that’s never been alive. It’s sad to me that people disregard, or simply don’t care to understand, what is really being lost in this AI-manufactured creativity. The consumerist nature of our society probably plays a big part in this ignorance-It creates this dichotomy between the artist and their art, where people seek art out, consume it to the fullest, but turn a blind eye to the misuse of tools that diminish the heart and creativity that makes us enjoy art in the first place. But for all that bad stuff I think there will always be that niche of people that want to be writers and respect themselves-and the craft-enough to take the time to carve their path. Makes me believe that art isn’t the kind of thing that gets replaced by AI.

[@KrisMF]

“It’s like trying to pretend there’s life in something that’s never been alive” oh you ateeee

[@cassythetree]

What makes you value art is the amount of time and effort the artist puts into it. Yeah, Ai can create a pretty picture or write a decent paragraph but the thing I love most about art is knowing it probably took someone years to get that good. I've been drawing for a couple of years and writing for a little longer than that. I know how hard it can be to effectively convey your ideas. It takes practice. So whenever I accomplish something that's even an inch close to my original idea I like taking a step back and being like, "I did that." You will never get that kind of pride from typing a few words into an AI generator. I love knowing that my favorite writers created the stories I adore out of love and fascination. Writing is such a personal thing. Books are the way they are because of the lives writers live and I don't think Ai can ever replace that. okay, I'm done with my little rant. lol

[@KrisMF]

i feel the exact same way about the importance of process. it’s an artist’s hard work that makes any art worthwhile

[@pixelneer]

From Nick Cave when someone sent him a 'song in the style of Nick Cave' from ChatGPT "ChatGPT’s melancholy role is that it is destined to imitate and can never have an authentic human experience, no matter how devalued and inconsequential the human experience may in time become." The man knows his stuff.

[@Linda-ju5df]

People who think AI can help them become professional writers are so short-sighted, they don't realize they are helping put their own career path out of existence. Why would anyone need to pay you to write if they can type a quick prompt into AI and have it spit out exactly what they want? What value do you offer to a publisher or an employer if AI can do it for free? It's so frustrating people don't see that. They just see a shortcut and want to immediately take it. Thank you for this video, I hope it helps change some minds.

[@KrisMF]

i know there are some ppl who are just too far gone but i hope new/young/aspiring writers will find the joy in discovering their own relationship with the craft

[@KyleenWren]

I recently wrote a blog post about using AI in writing, and I really appreciate your contribution to the discussion. Great thoughts.

[@kelleyiswriting]

Kris I love this video!! Thanks for speaking about this topic with such a nuanced approach. For me, I think there’s such a grey space right now between using AI as a thesaurus versus generating non sensical soulless words. My fear is that AI will prey on writers, ultimately scamming them for something they could do on their own with creativity-which isn’t the point of writing? 😅 I love your point about the environmental damages which I think is something not a lot of might people think about since “digital” looks more “hidden.” Hehe great video !!! ❤️

[@KrisMF]

the scammy companies are really pissing me off the most 😀 thanks for watching!!!

[@ChurchofCthulhu]

AI is such garbage at writing fiction. You can literally see how it moves down a logic tree from paragraph to paragraph, often it will change the words but repeat the same thing over and over through the story. And ChatGPT forces a happy ending. Even when I tricked it to where the monster destroys the town or the bad guy wins, it always has to get the last word and tacks on an extra paragraph at the end pushing its moral values, "the residents of Townsville learned a hard lesson that day they would soon not forget. Evil exists, and it is still out there."

[@Threads1984scenes]

I 100% agree with you. I am working on projects related to my channel, one based around expanding upon the film, "Threads" and another one more similar to a book that serves as a cautionary tale against nuclear war.

[@mellowmorgan]

The thing is, AI isn't even that helpful in software engineering like people think. As a software engineer, it is rarely "smart" enough to come up with usable code. I have never successfully had it solve a problem I was stuck on. I was wondering about writing, since writing is my passion, and this is comforting to hear.

[@LiteraryStoner]

I had no idea this opinion made me a boomer at 35 years old lol. But that's also sad... i'm an aspiring author and working on a novel at the moment. I am so excited, scared to of course but excited to write and share my stories. I don't want to read a story written by an AI. I'll take a poorly written story by a human over a somehow well written story by an AI simply because at least the one written by a human has humanity to it in that respect at least. There will always be something AI is missing in creating art.

[@jessicacopeland9066]

I use Novelai as a writing buddy. I have no friends that write. Unfortunately this means I have no one to bounce ideas off of, or help with a sentence when it sounds bland. I will take and rewrite maybe 100 or less words from Novelai for a 4k+ word chapter. It makes me sad when I tell someone this and they say “oh so ai is writing your book?” I only use it when I’m stumped or can’t for the life of me describe something 😭

[@KrisMF]

yeah that shouldn’t be equated with AI writing your whole book! i think it’s generally more beneficial for new writers not to become reliant on these kinds of tools when you’re still learning (so you can eventually hone the skill/confidence to self edit!) but i see the benefit of helping to mitigate some of the solitary aspects of the process in lieu of a critique partner :)

[@briellewrites]

This is incredibly valuable, thank you Kris!

[@clairisaphoinix23]

Thank you for making for this video and echoing all of my thoughts on A.I it's doing more harm than good. I don't want to embrace it because it's advance tech etc. I want to learn the craft and hone my skills even with all the struggles with writing.

[@JosephDickson]

Make easy money quickly! AI is a grift and no different than NFTs or crypto. All these sales techniques are exactly the same and we should learn to spot a fraud. All these technologies have actual value, but the people selling it are trying to make a quick buck off of gullible customers and clients.

[@briellewrites]

also just wanted to say you are extremely eloquent ALWAYS and I am always so impressed by how you carry yourself and how thoughtful everything you say is.

[@jorje0068]

What's more artistic? Using chatGPT to keep track of all the input that ive fed it, and helping me arrange it, or being a human and just reimagining an existing ip? Asking for a friend

[@graysonsbookmark]

hard agree, kris. i think the most poignant note you made was about the feeling of fixing things yourself. that's the thing that creates writers, i feel. without the experience of having a problem and fixing it on your own, there will be no growth

[@girlypopgay]

If I’m ever ‘using’ ai, it’s me asking questions, not getting sufficient answers. Or if I’m like, ooh, make summary. Do this. I do those things, fully expecting dog shit. Idk. Sometimes it’s momentarily fun to mess with. And then quickly frustrating bc it’s not as good as it claims to be. It’s a program. A robot. A machine. No real context for anything I ask. Um, but regardless of if ai gets better. You should not use ai to write a book?? Like. Whole paragraph scene chapters. No ai art. None of that. But it can be a fun interesting little thing for five minutes.

[@AriBPK]

this is such a wonderfully well-thought out video -- thank you for sharing your thoughts ♥ if stories and writing are about the experience of humanity, we do need to think critically about what AI can bring to that space in a meaningful way and what boundaries and protections need to be put in place -- especially when it comes at the cost of other artists and their years of work -- I like your perspective on both the craft perspective for a writer's point of view of improving their craft but also the protections that artists need in the future

[@IlseMulAuthor]

I completely agree with you!

[@bigbossvi429]

Just found your channel, very insightful stuff.

[@celseac8107]

What makes human art important is *intention*, along with a skill and created through a lifetime of various experiences. AI only *pretends* to have it - but it never has the real thing.

[@ChurchofCthulhu]

AI will only ever be able to copy, it will never be truly creative. It will never be able to write from a human perspective, and being able to generate a connection with the characters is kinda what most of literature is about.

[@HanEmbroiders]

Kris I have just binged all of your videos!! I wanted to ask, as a baby writer myself, where did you find/connect with your writer friends? I know you mention twitter in other videos, but I'm struggling to find other like-minded people who love books and writing.

[@KrisMF]

hi!! the reason i’ve enjoyed twitter despite its faults is because i like following writers long term and getting to know their individual WIPs and being able to become invested in their publishing journey. it takes some time to connect with ppl just because of the algorithm/how often you engage but it’s still been a net positive for me. i think there’s a fairly active instagram writing community as well. putting yourself out there even a little definitely helps. also maybe trying a few different writing discords could be a good start. its july which is camp nanowrimo season so i find that more writers tend to be a bit more active around this time! same thing goes for november (the official nanowrimo month) outside of social media, i also made some connections in writing workshop which i took in university. if you’re not a student try to see if there are any writing groups in your area either through libraries or community centres. also author events/book signings/conferences!

[@HanEmbroiders]

@@KrisMF thank you so much for responding!!! I have just joined a few writing discords so I'm hoping to make some connections :)

[@anandaferraresi]

Louder, Kris, louder for the people in the back.

[@threeismynickname980]

I just use ai to find synonyms and names+ to ask existential questions 😅😂 bro my little sister brought me a whole book and said she made it, shit made no sense but the writing sure was clear and concise asked her when the heck she made it, looking up my 10 year old sister told me chat gpt made it, said she couldn’t get past 1 paragraph 😂😂

[@NileSmalls]

I use AI for small things like places that don’t have much relevance

[@ellieblackwell9754]

The only time is use ai for “writing” is when I want to alter the hair color or something like that on a certain image to match my character for my PERSONAL character board

[@mittag983]

That's like editing with AI

[@tiara172005]

AI writing will never be good. Why? It can't get into to the head or the heart of a character. A good story is not about writing flowery sentences, intense and dramatic scenes or amazing descriptions. We don't care about how well a description of a foggy mountain is written, we care what the foggy mountain MEANS to the character. It's not what our characters say or notice or even do, its why they say or notice or do it that makes for an intriguing story.

[@madebymalayka]

I don't need to watch the whole video to know that you mirror my exact sentiments 🥹 Not sure if you'll ever say "F^ck AI", but that pretty much sums up how I feel about it as it relates to writing, art and creativity 😌 People who defend the use of AI in generative processes are vile to me 😩

[@martellc1008]

❤

[@TheLyricalCleric]

Haven’t even watched the video yet, but I need someone to coin the term for people who can read but can’t write or understand the writing that they’ve “written” using the help of AI. Like grammar bots that correct grammar, we are at risk of becoming functionally illiterate or a-literate, unable to understand or meaningfully reproduce the writing that we are capable of doing now. I don’t need to translate, AI can do it. I don’t need to have ideas, AI will have them. But what can I do? Do I have my own free will to write words? Or even worse, if words come out of the AI black box that I don’t understand or writing that I can’t grasp, is the AI wrong or am I wrong?

[@DanLyndon]

Careful with the editing, you seem to be clipping a lot of words and syllables.

[@jbyker2205]

Painter’s had the same complaints and excuses about photography over 200 years ago. Use the best tools possible to create the best work possible or be relegated to the dustbin of history. Photography has arrived at the point where it is capable of liberating painting from all literature, from the anecdote, and even from the subject. In any case, a certain aspect of the subject now belongs to the domain of photography. So shouldn't painters profit from their newly acquired liberty, and make use of it to do other things? -Pablo Picasso

[@dukeofdenver]

There's so much moralistic language here that feels condescending. The same generation that champions "art is subjective" has no leg to stand on criticising AI work now. None. Having surplus time to spend on art is a point of privilege. Some people like me don't have hundreds of dollars to hire an editor for developmental or line edits. Or hundreds of hours to spend cleaning typos from a 200,000 word manuscript one by one. So long as the reader enjoys the work, AI or not, what is your problem? Intellectual property law was a tool invented capitalism to protect itself from populist iteration on art anyway. Do you not see the cognitive dissonance in decrying modern corporatism yet stanning IP laws that came from it? Writing is great. I love it. But I'm only one guy. My brain is fallible. Using AI like "a best friend thats read every book" to chip in thoughts and ideas or primal meat brains might overlook or forget is GOOD, actually. The readers win at the end of the day. Making the best book you can for your readers is the goal. If AI helps, that's a net positive.

[@KrisMF]

i'm not sure where you got the idea that myself or so many other writers who are opposed to AI are in a place of "privilege." if your support of AI discounts the harm that it places on other artists, the industry and the environment, that's an individualistic mindset that i don't care much to change. AI as a tool can be incredibly powerful. i'm not anti-AI at all. but there needs to be better regulations about how it's implemented and disclosed.

[@mittag983]

You don't seem to write your whole book with AI, you only edit it with it and remove plot holes. This video isn't for you bro.

[@marlinthecreative118]

As of this time (July 2024) the courts haven’t clarified this as “theft” which is a legal term. In the past the courts have actually favored the industry and not the creators. The Google decision pretty much said that as long as it is sampling then it is not theft and nothing is owed to the creators. Since AI doesn’t even quote the original in the way the Google search does, it will probably be declared legal. Having said that, I personally haven’t found AI generated work useful in my creation, but I don’t believe it is a good idea or honest to declare it as theft or stealing. Let’s let the courts and legislatures settle this and stick with statements of “I don’t like it.” “I don’t use it.” But let’s move away from the shaming and judgement statements towards those that use it. There are in fact creators, many with disabilities, that use it to provide them a way to create. Best of luck in your writing endeavors.

[@KrisMF]

as i mention in the video, there’s a difference between AI generated work and AI as a tool. my argument isn’t about the language of the legal system (law =\ morality) but that artistic crafts are continually undermined when we choose not to value human art. i hope we can leverage these tools with more conscience and care as the tech continues to evolve. best of luck with your writing projects as well

[@CaliFinestDemon]

There is nothing wrong with AI writing. A lot of AI critics cling to their purity tests for creativity but don't apply the same stringent standards to other aspects of life.

[@v.w.singer9638]

What shocks me is how some people actually feel a sense of pride and accomplishment over having prompted AI to write a book. As you mentioned in the video, everybody can come up with story ideas. Actual writing is converting that idea into a fully fleshed out story. If someone or something else is doing that part, then you are not a writer, just as patrons of historical artists are not themselves artists.

[@glitchscribble44]

❤