Old Home Movies - Ruined Forever!

Here is a tale of woe that you've probably heard before. You come across some valuable home movies that you should copy off to a DVD and then, guess what!?!
It's happened to me! I'll show you the results of my first 16mm sound films from the 1960s that I recently discovered in my collection. Both the separate audio tape soundtrack and the 16mm film exists and I was anxious to bring them together again for KZbin viewers. The final result might make film collectors ill.
Taped: February 7, 2008

[@kq6up]

This damage is due to moisture. Too much humidity. The vinegar smell produced by cellulose acetate is caused by a reaction with water vapor, so cool, dark, and dry. I have some footage from 1961 looking as good as the day it was shot. The vinegar syndrome causes the film to shrink, and that is what you are seeing.

[@CassetteMaster]

Whoa...I hope that didn't happen to my uncle's 16mm films. He has a lot of films he made, although he said they had been transferred. He did lots of film and tape work back in the day, although alot of the equipment is gone..

[@TheRenard10]

Amateur/Professional Movie Makers, Including Me, This Message Is For You! If You Have Good, Brilliant Common Sense, Then You Should Copy All Your Created Home Movies On Your Own Time. That's One Of My Favorite Hobbies. Have A Day Off Work? How About Your Entire 3 Day Weekend? Start N The Morning, & Work Your Way Occupied Through The Night. Fall N Love With & Share Your Homemade Videos With Those You Care About. Good Luck.

[@KKD1247]

The acetic acid smell is the binder breaking down between the emulsion and the base. The problem often occurs when film is stored in tight cans, and is unable to breath in storage. This is also a big problem with old magnetic tracks in movie sound tracks which are often stored the same way.

[@choppergirl]

Before I would of thrown it out, I would of unwound some of it and seen if I could see through each frame. It looks like only the bottom edge or outside edges took most of the damaged. Kind of like how you throw a book into a fire, and then pull it out later and everything is intact one the printed page, only the outside edges got burned. Its actually pretty hard to burn a book quickly.

[@Musicradio77Network]

I always keep my 8mm and 16mm movies in place to avoid any vinegar smell or some damage over the years, I have a set of three 3 projectors including my 2 Kodak projectors including my Super Showtime 8 and Instamatic Super 8 projector along my latest find, my Bell & Howell Filmosound Specialist 16mm projector. I have a batch of cartoons from Castle Films and others. Kerry was a great user, and he died a couple of years ago, he would be missed. :(

[@KKD1247]

The film is gone. I haven't won the lottery yet to be able to undertake printing it step by step to a new film.

[@tfd92]

Sorry that you lost the movies. Hopefully you find that you recorded them on tape. I enjoy all of your videos and it is a shame that this work was lost.

[@therestorationofdrwho1865]

You could still attempt resurrecting the films by soaking them in a restoring fluid.

[@merrill1940]

Thank you for the warning. I had a Bolex P2 8mm purchased in 1964. The films have been kept in a dry cool place but I'm still going right now to check on them. I wish that I had purchased a 16mm instead because the definition is so much better than 8mm. It's almost like looking a video tape.

[@JamesBanner]

I have 16mm films that have been stored under normal conditions for 35 years and they're still fine. I might only project them once in a decade but none of them have ended up on rusty reels, rotting away like yours.

[@spencerjoplin2885]

The vinegar is a runaway chemical reaction, and it’s exacerbated by temperature fluctuations. Ventilation theoretically helps, but few places are consistently cold, dry, and drafty.

[@robertwmartens]

Yours is a very cautionary tale - kinda like those scary health movies we watched in high school! I have all the 16mm movies my Grandfather filmed from 1929 to the 1960's, and I've had nightmares of finding them all melted into goop. So far they're in OK shape - I keep them in a cabinet down in my basement, the coolest part of the house. I still worry for their safety, but what am I gonna do, rent a salt mine?

[@teendude16]

Hey, thank you for the lesson here. You are like a director, the camera likes you. I wonder if it is really not restorable at all?. I heard things, but it was for tape recorder tapes, like reel to reel, maybe it won't work for that. Thank you for posting.

[@samplesmasher]

oh man, that's such a sad story! I hope, you didn't throw away the film. i still would try by myself to safe some scenes of it, no matter how it would look like, just for some moved pictures of that time. Sorry about my bad english, i'm from Germany.

[@memahselfni]

I'm so sorry on your losses. Anyone who enjoys old films knows the annoyance and dismay of learning that the interesting film they read about (or in your case made) is no longer around, and can never be viewed by them. Some old Hollywood films, you may or may not know, are actually ticking away. The chemicals used to make the celluloid reel erode the film after a long time.

[@tiger175]

I have recently deposited my father's 8mm film collection with a film archive. Some of the footage was beginning to deteriorate but I know now that it will be stored at the correct temperature/humidity. I hope the memories stored in your head stay with you and are as vivid as the film itself.

[@kensims4086]

My disc's started to rot away already, thanks maxell.. Those films could be scanned one frame at a time and played back fine.. I got some films from 1920 that are perfect still on metal reels.

[@KKD1247]

Wow...those open reel tapes of yours look like many of my old "NightLife" shows from the 80s. Mold & "salt" all over them! What a surprise when you open them up years later.

[@KKD1247]

Hi. I would copy them to a DVD asap. Even if you do it yourself using a small setup with your camcorder. You won't regret it. (Several of my KZbin videos from the 1960s are from old Beta tapes I copied long ago. The films are currently unplayable.)

[@marktubeie07]

I know EXACTLY you feel at your 'LOSS' - & it is a loss, not only of history but in fact, your youth! Attached above is a short clip of the worst of my some 15 open-reel J-Standard B&W Video Tapes that I had created in my youth. I am yet to have them 'baked' so I can transfer them to Digital Format. I have lost 1/3 of these reel...

[@MisterEsoteric]

Wonderful stuff, Mr. Decker. So sorry you lost your past treasures. If you had known how to salvage the film, what' the latest you could have saved it before it was too late? When we're young we don't think about these things. Perhaps if you'd got it out more frequently it would not've rusted. Also, I thing being back east in more humid climates could have contributed. I am from Colorado and none of my old super 8 films have shown any signs of deterioration, perhaps because it's so much dryer?

[@rodneykingston6420]

Is part of the reason for deterioration the metal reel? Would it not have degraded less if it were on a plastic (or several smaller plastic) reel?

[@KKD1247]

Thanks so much for your thoughts on this.

[@KKD1247]

The expense would be excessive for their value - "zero" for everyone but me. It was hard to do but I already threw the 16mm in the dumpster.

[@okiegrown7412]

That's a shame. Storing in your laundry room probably did it, with the humidity. - Ideally, is to store them in a shoe box up in your closet. Never in plastic. Film needs some air.

[@RetroGamerVX]

Yup, that would have to be hand restored, even then, huge job if it could even be done successfully.

[@SamHarrisonMusic]

I think if you pay enough someone might be able to do a rough transfer of some of it for you... you can see what they do with old nitrate film!

[@Videogamehistorian00]

@EnerG15 Just try to keep it around 40-60 degrees F and 40-60% humidity

[@joeystromboli65]

I feel your pain. and thank you for the lesson. To back up my movie

[@EggMan9988]

what would happen in you put it in the projector as you would do with the not rotten one?

[@mikefromspace]

I don't see how it's ruined for certain without trying to unwind it. Soak it in formula 2001 and once it's flexible again, use a chemical bath of baking soda, warm water, and this will remove impregnated iron by moving it to the anode. If anything is left of the film it might be fixable digitally to improve color and contrast.

[@boyhey1]

oh my God, are those films can't play it anymore? oh no, its ruined. i really love old films!!!

[@KKD1247]

You are correct, sir! On all of the above.

[@MewtwoM]

I heard on KZbin that a user with a LaserScan type unit was actually able to scan some very badly deteriorated films to where they could be watchable to some extent. I suggest maybe looking up this user, if by now you have not tossed those old films. Yes, it is sad when a prized film like that becomes practically unplayable due to decay.

[@MewtwoM]

The user I was referring to in my above post is GammaRayDigital who uses the device I tried to describe that can scan very badly deteriorated film (as in the case of your ruined films caused by vinegar syndrome). What I have seen of the results of this user is very amazing. And yes, I see the point in storing these films in ideal conditions (namely a cool, dark place with relatively low humidity). I am so sorry for your loss.

[@alext9067]

Kerry, how did you get your hands on an anamorphic lens? That's pretty cool stuff to have laying around.

[@Onneff69]

I would make at leaset one extra DVD copies AND a copy on MiniDV TAPE. Also, store them in different locations, if convenient. It really depends on how important the film/video is to you - or on how much you think your descendents will care! :)

[@spencerjoplin2885]

I’m from the future. What’s a DVD?

[@Videogamehistorian00]

@Bobinti It would constantly go in and out of frame, and I'm pretty sure that this has melted together so I don't think you'd get very far in it. But most likely the sprockets are gone.

[@photomitch]

Well, I discovered a reel of some super 8MM film I shot back in the late 60's when i was in High School had gotten wet and ruined when in storage. Oh well....

[@MarkShannonroad_videos]

That hurts real bad! Now I have to wonder how DVDs will hold up over time. Will they look like this, all warped and smelly, or will they still play? Hate to see good film go yuck like this. History lost forever!

[@autophyte]

Strange. I have dozens of 16 mm films (not home movies) stored under my house in steel cans sitting in stacks on the rocky ground, which have been there for the last 40 years, but they are still in playable condition. The colour has faded in many of them but the film itself is still fine. These are release prints, not first generation prints. They are all on those blue plastic reels and cores. Maybe your films , as reversal first generation prints, had traces of developing solutions still on the film, which, in the sealed can slowly dissolved the emulsion and backing. A sad situation, definitely.

[@MRLOL785]

@KKD1247 It's a good thing that Beta lasts longer than VHS. I've got several from the late '70s that still play back with nice results, but I do have a tape from the early '90s that was a dud. Luckily it was mostly second-gen stuff and the originals are still working. At least you have the audio...

[@Videogamehistorian00]

Yeah you're problem is it looks like your conditions were less then "half ideal". That film looks like it's melted and the fact that the reel is corroding it seems there was a high humidity content.

[@KKD1247]

Images are probably there but the film is all stuck together and fused into a mass.

[@therestorationofdrwho1865]

at lot would be lost but please keep it you might be able to keep some small parts of it.

[@FlyingMitch]

I copied my old vhs tapes from 30 years ago to my computer back in 2015 been trying to digitally clean it up In fcpx can’t really do anything with the date stamp unfortunately because it was turned on and off on the camera constantly

[@KKD1247]

The film is oily & gummy and would not even thread into a projector. Besides, it would leave gummy residue all through the thread path and mess up the next film thru the projector. I know what you mean - but not worth it. :-(

[@TheGrindhouselover]

ive heard of companies that can restore old film thats been destroyed by the vinegar reaction, i dont remember what it was, but you can look online, they might be able to help bring out some of the pictures on it and transfer it to dvd

[@Juliannarox]

looks like i'd better start copying my films onto DVD's right now. yeah, mine are old video tapes but even video tapes dont last forever! if i ever lost any of them, i'd be down in the dumps forever! sorry bout your movie dude, i truely am, it must kill you that something so old and important has been destroyed by time. you have an awesome voice btw, just saying.

[@andrewbarnum5040]

This sort of problem is not an issue modern film. B&W film like this gentleman has is prone to vinegar syndrome which causes the film to melt. Film releases gasses over time which is normal. However if these gasses get trapped in an air tight film can it will causes the film to shrink and finally melt while admitting a strong vinegar smell. There are professional scanners which are able to scan film which has been damaged in this way. Film should be stored in cans with small holes drilled into them for ventilation or remove the lid ever 6 to 12 months to allow the gases to escape. Newer polyester based films don't have this problem and have an amazing shelf life of up 700 years if stored in perfect conditions.

[@bertskoi]

you can get it washed and preserved don't throw it out! it may not be destroyed. they can do a digital frame by frame

[@wilkes85]

aaaaw man, that must hurt!! Have you tried getting in contact with a company that could possibly restore the film? maybe they could clean it so that it can be playable. if not, I hope you find the rest of those beta tapes that you transferred the film onto.

[@fredroper398]

just take your films out every so often and do a rewind then wind them back that film i would have unwound it on another reek to inspect and see what can be saved and gently unstuck film

[@AmazingShoestring]

Don't throw it out just yet! If these films are very special to you, a chemical restoration by a professional could probably restore part of it.

[@teendude16]

Find those beta tapes, I heard they must be kept away from heat humidity, speakers, magnets. Thank you.

[@geekthinker]

@KKD1247 find 'em yet?

[@KKD1247]

No - not yet.

[@Onneff69]

This is definitely a MAJOR personal loss and I'm truly sorry for you. However, what happened to your film is definitely & emphatically NOT typical. Something(s) went wrong somewhere - and it could've been as far back as the day those emulsions were made to what was in the air in the garage storage. Contrary to popular mythology, film (movie and still) and magnetic tape happen to be VERY archival (nothing "amazing" about your audio tapes still playing) even without ultra-special storage.

[@jumentoasiaticopringao582]

The metal's reel fault😔

[@CodyLee6969]

you find all the beta tapes?

[@joeystromboli65]

Very Good Info thanks Kerry

[@michaelmcgee8543]

This is sad.

[@TheDeadDeadsons]

dude! that sucks.

[@miloklis]

rewind

[@tanello2]

DVD lasts only 30 yr after that it will allso start to skip and do some ohter ugly stuff