Old vs new. Tactical differences in historical cut fencing.

[@Mr.56Goldtop]

Interesting! I'm happy for the subtitles though!

[@mateuszurban1019]

Śmieszy mnie troszke fakt ze wczoraj zapisalem sie poraz pierwszy na pańskie zajecia a dzisiaj pański kanal pojawil mi sie w polecanych na Youtubie :D

[@RODRIGAOBARRETO]

Fantastic! Look foward to learn from you.

[@Elbinger]

Dzięki za wyjaśnienia! Czy można gdzieś zobaczyć osobę walczącą takim stylem tureckim bez zasłon?

[@rafalsamek1486]

Super 😁👍👍👍

[@skomorohroker]

very interesting, thanx !

[@esgrimaxativa5175]

I can see you are talking about something of great interest to me but I don't speak Polish. Can you make this video with subtitles in English? Thank you kindly. I'm sure this would help you reach more people.

[@jurekmiklaszewski7027]

done, the subtititles are published

[@esgrimaxativa5175]

@@jurekmiklaszewski7027 Thank you. very fascinating stuff. I hope to meet and train with you one day. Saludo from Spain!

[@deadshotxdd1480]

Polecam zajęcia :)

[@szybkilewyprostyf231]

Dobry materiał ale poprosiłbym o więcej pokazania krok po kroku czym się to rużniło.

[@jerzytelepko1389]

Polska sztuka walki szabla byla walka indywidualna, wschodnia stadna. Tam musieli zabic w tlumie jak najwieksza ilosc wrogow, w Polsce indywidualnie obrona i atak. Jak najmniej strat.

[@Sk0lzky]

Palce jak najbardziej były narażone czego dowodzą chociażby opisy najczęściej odnoszonych w pojedynkach ran Co do wschodnich (bliskoazjatyckich, indyjskich) systemów tam prawie zawsze dla osłony stosuje się jakąś formę tarczy czy puklerza bądź w ogóle się nie zastawia, raczej stąd bierze się brak rozwoju osłon dłoni

[@СергейМ-я2е]

2.42-43 Правый ставит защиту почти на прямой руке. Потому для ответа он вынужден сделать движение назад и только потом переходит на боковой удар. Что и позволяет противнику (левому) успевать ставить контр защиту. Ну и конечно хотелось бы увидеть удары не в пустоту перед "противником" а в "противника". Пусть они будут медленнее, но ближе к пониманию

[@jurekmiklaszewski7027]

you absolutely miss the aim of this presentation, the idea of the exchange examples were performed for the viewer to clearly understand the difference between those actions. You have many examples of bouts I perform with that kind of mechanics in full contact combat on my Silkfencing page on FB.

[@СергейМ-я2е]

@@jurekmiklaszewski7027 спасибо за ответ. Удучи

[@nicholasw777]

I am having a hard time finding the kind of gloves you guys use. Which brand are they? Thank you!!

[@ZdzichuRaczka]

Śliczne rękawice! Hokejowe, bramkarskie?

[@ZdzichuRaczka]

Dobra już nie trzeba! Jakby ktoś szukał to "lacrosse gloves"

[@ОгнестрельныйМетод]

Przeprszam, gdzie możno kupić taki szabli ? Tekstolyt ? (mój polski bardzo żle, przepraszam)

[@Chrzysztof]

Można kupić na silkfencing.shop.pl

[@krisowicz2957]

Witam, gdzie można nabyć oręże jakim ćwiczycie?

[@jurekmiklaszewski7027]

Dzień dobry, Tutaj jest wszystko dostępne: www.silkfencing.shop.pl/

[@krisowicz2957]

@@jurekmiklaszewski7027 Dziękuję bardzo :)

[@tvlad]

which equipment do you use? Can I order the same from Ukraine? Currently, I use the Cold Steel katana but this staff is very unbalanced.

[@paweburda8910]

Witam a czy to nie niszczy Główni nie wyszczerbi jej?

[@jurekmiklaszewski7027]

w każdym ztych wymiarów wszystko zależne jest od ilości akcji na ostrzu. w nowym systemie, dasz zaslonę wiele razy, to się wyszczerbi. W starym zbijesz wiele razy to sie będzie szczerbić. Przewaga może być, że ścinajac cięcie można trafiając nie bezpośrednio w ostrze tylko gdzieś gdzie kąty są bardziej optymalne, co mniej szczerbi głownie, zarówno zbita jak i zbijającą. Ale przeważnie wiele tej wymiany nigdy nie było, zresztą na turniejach też jej za wiele nie ma. Bardziej dodaje to dramaturgi na pokazach.

[@pey7759]

What are your trainers made from and where do you get them?

[@jurekmiklaszewski7027]

www.silkfencing.shop.pl/synthetic-polish-sabre-p-4.html

[@darijanr5704]

Would you mind posting a review of these and the longswords please?

[@jerzytelepko1389]

Mnie kolego uczono czego innnego. Gdy ktos atakuje, bronie wchodzac w niego i zadajac cios i natychmiast powrot z obrona, bo nawt ranny moze oddac cios, i potem natychmiast atak drugi nawet na trupa.

[@nazcret22]

Can anyone msg me when the subs are done :D ?

[@jerzytelepko1389]

Ja jestem z polskiej starej szkoly szermierki rodzinnej

[@imasped2731]

espaneol

[@zbigniew463]

za dużo gadania za mało wiedzy

[@szybkilewyprostyf231]

Wiedzą jest tylko przydało się więcej pokazać i to w rozbiciu na kolejne sekwencje.

[@seannewton3480]

So... You're making some very broad generalizations about European fencing, some of which I don't believe are backed by documentary evidence. Primarily, Fabris is an Italian master and therefore also puts counter actions and stesso tempo counter-attacks as the best sort of response. This actually remains true of the Italian system until... Well, now, frankly. It's a defining feature of the Italian tradition of swordplay. The Italian tradition is my focus, so I'm most knowledgeable about that. But, most of the comparisons you are making to later European systems of fencing are, to my knowledge, incorrect. In this and others of your videos. Stesso tempo, after all, is an Italian concept. Even the phrase is in the Italian language. I don't see how the influence of Italians could possibly have resulted in an abandonment of the idea of in-time actions, stesso tempo actions, whatever you want to call them. Also, the staccato start-stop/parry-riposte model you're saying is typical of later, European cut and thrust fencing styles also isn't actually typical of most of those systems. They all use circular, continuous motion to move from one action to the next. The start-stop of modern fencing is... A modern thing. As in, dating to the 20th century. Some of what you are saying may apply to the French tradition. They definitely prioritized the defense-offense model over the counteroffensive model of the Italians. And I can't say I know much about French saber. My understanding is that it was generally considered substandard and therefore never made it too far outside of France. That's what was passed down to me by oral history (from Italians), however, so it may not be accurate, I will admit. But, the English also used uninterrupted circular motions for attacks and defense, as did the Spanish... Germans, certainly. The entirety of the mensur style of fencing revolves around rapid, wrist-centric circular cuts for attack and defense. While the French won the political game and managed to define European fencing for the 20th century, their fencing systems tended to be idiosyncratic and not representative of Europe at large. Additionally, Italian fencing had a far greater impact on European saber systems than the French ever did. Italian Masters taught in Hungary (Luigi Barbasetti) and the US (Santelli and Nadi among others), and an Italian Master's system was adopted by the British Military (1895 - Ferdinand Masiello). An Italian was even made the head of Brazil's national fencing academy, though I can't remember his name off the top of my head, unforunately. If we were to talk thrust fencing, it would be a much different discussion. At least as far as saber goes, however, Italy never really gave up its primacy. You seem to be a knowledgeable guy and you obviously have put a lot of practice in on technique. I would be wary of generalizing outside of a specific system. Also, there is a difference between understanding a text and understanding the system the text describes. It seems like you're assigning motivations to authors based on conjecture. I have fallen into this trap as well, but unless someone somewhere actually gives their motives for constructing a technique in a particular way, we can't know what they are. Even then, they are only speaking for themselves. I apologize if this seems like I am attacking you, which is not my intention. Someone on the internet is WRONG, however, and I simply cannot rest until I shout about it a bit. :) Good fencing and best wishes.

[@jurekmiklaszewski7027]

Nice to see, someone who has some knowledge. So if you want to know fir sure stresso tempo and dui tempo are a thing. I do noy understand what you mean by circular fencing, but in regards to what you say. It is well documented that fabris system doninated the german fencing of 17th century. You can see starting from books like heussler or schefferi. Who use his method fir thrusting but still retain the older method in cutting. While later Pascha, Henning, Schmidt are using a new developed cutting method relying purely on parry riposte or rather dui tempo mechanics. Later i cannot find a good example of stresso tempo movement except for few cavalry treatises. The circular fencing if you mean the moulinets, you are little bit wrong, as the ueberhieben is the most common swinging actions. Moulinets are more 19th century French nethod. You can see that when comparing Behr, Werner, Roux and Valville or Thallhoffer.

[@jurekmiklaszewski7027]

Also it is not my intention to attack here as well. But it always kind of triggered me that the german tradition of the Renaissance and medieval era is so extensively studied, while the baroque or even later are most often neglected. To explain the issue of the circular cutting, academic fencing does not rely on it at all. It has it but it is rather an additional action instead of the basic action like in case of radaelli, Valville or even de saint Martin. The idea of circle movement in academic fencing is due to the fact, that the motion starts from a hanging parry but the point goes up instead of down, which is a grand difference. Unless you meant something else by this term ;)

[@seannewton3480]

@@jurekmiklaszewski7027 You could very well be right about Pascha and the other authors you name there. I'm afraid I am not as well read in that area as I could be. Fabris certainly did have a large impact on German fencing. German fencing may have moved to a defense-offense model as time went on, I'm afraid I'm not too knowledgeable there. My objection is connecting Fabris to that change. Fabris, as an Italian, definitely thought counter actions were better than dui tempi actions (when done well, of course). I guess I will stop there regarding that, though I will say that I agree later traditions of fencing get neglected, which is a shame. As to the moulinet being an exclusive French thing, I am afraid you are mistaken there. It is very much a part of a lot of fencing systems. Radaelli, of course, centers his entire system around molinelli. Prior to that Italian saber was based on 'rotazione' which were wrist-centered circular cuts also. I'm planning on putting up some videos going over my Radaellian work soon, if you would be interested in seeing them. Radaellians also used the guard of 2nd in a fight. It's not a hanging guard, but it does share some characteristics. I'm afraid I'm not sure what you mean by academic fencing? Also, are you discussing a specific circle, coming from the hanging guard? When you mentioned the point going up instead of down, I'm afraid I didn't follow. Always fun to have a good conversation. Thanks! :)

[@jurekmiklaszewski7027]

@@seannewton3480 I never said these were exclusive. I said that these were the basic actions of the French system. Also you are mantioning the second half of 19th century. Earlier you had either Bartelli, who has no direct information regarding his method of cutting and Contrapunta and then you have the entire tradition you mentioned, that is the late 19th century, the elbow molinelli. BTW. an interesting aspect I have found earlier book than the Radaellian tradition that use the elbow moulinets.it is Timmlich of the late 18th cent Austrian cavalry system. Either way, is the guy who caused a major transformation in German systems of both thrust and cut in 17th century. I am not saying that he was the author of these changes,as I am aware that his method of tempo with the rapier is based upon stresso tempo. The issue comes with the fact that his system is what basically made the German degen come into fruition. Dui tempo methodology is a consequence of that. But it is his system that the aentire "art of fencing" is based upon in german traditions of 17th century. The simplification Imake is directed towards the person of Fabris is due to the fact, that the receiver of that does not need to read through the tons of manuals to understand what I am saying. I also point our what he should read to understand why this change happened.