Oligarchs Are Ruining This Country | Ash Sarkar Meets Sam Bright

Who exactly are the ruling class? The conspicuous top hat and tailed Bullingdon Club still exert dominance, but their era is waning and new folks are in town. They can't beat the obscene wealth of petrostate oligarchs, so they've joined them - ransacking the country.
Ash is joined by Sam Bright, author of: 'Bullingdon Club Britain: The Ransacking of a Nation'.
Episodes of Downstream are released Sundays at 6PM on KZbin.
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[@galwhite7011]

The British class system disgusts me.

[@ashleyupshall7641]

Exactly it’s a cancer in our society.

[@galwhite7011]

@@ashleyupshall7641 America is starting to become like that too unfortunately

[@pipster1891]

It is THE worst thing about Britain.

[@twoforty252]

No it isn't...@@pipster1891

[@Lizard11ify]

​@@galwhite7011It is already is.

[@laundryday9511]

Living in Portugal. People here could not give a fart about the UK aristocracy. Coronation was a 10 sec footnote on news. The world now thinks the UK is just backward . There is zero envy of the aristocracy and class system.

[@s.semanas]

I think people do care. There’s a certain belligerent and entitled hipster and FT-reader class going to Portugal from England, inflating the Portuguese economy… especially post-brexit… they are being offered ‘golden visas’ and tax breaks… from what it looks like, just feels like they are there on vibes/blissful ignorance… an unconscious entitlement has worked its way through a lot of English classes, not just the upper class (is it a coincidence that the idiom ‘Brits Abroad’ is even a thing… or that the English decided that being called an immigrant wasn’t in their good taste, instead insisting that they be called ‘expatriates’. it’s a new soft corporate colonisation under the guise of ‘digital nomads’ or ‘surfing’, and it’s eye-opening to see how blind some are to this - I swear, much like the upper-class spoken about in this video, they don’t even think about how arrogant it is - and just use anything as a utility to serve their own interests and cognitive biases, probably justifying it as “oh well it’ll be good for the ‘economy’ if not anything else. Complete detachment from the reality of most ordinary working people and the impact it has. Go on an airplane to Lisbon or Faro and you’ll see a select few with their pink Financial Times broadsheets, spread eagle, sitting in the expensive seats at the front of the plane - it’s comical, Patrick Bateman/American Psycho type dystopia. you think they put their money into anything that’ll help the Portuguese infrastructure - they probably don’t speak a word of the language and buy their food from Lidl (not Portuguese) it’s laughable how ignorant humans are - I say humans because this caste/class-type thing is all over the world -

[@TheSlinkyinky]

Portugal 🇵🇹 shot their king for a start! Even though the son of the king survived and became king for a while - it was the beginning of the end. Portugal became a republic and hasn't looked back. The Portuguese don't really do aristocracy or class in 2023. Monarchy is outdated, and also one of the reasons the UK still continues this extreme class nonsense....

[@s.semanas]

@@TheSlinkyinky the zombie hipsters are coming to gentrify

[@TheSlinkyinky]

Funny you say that about the news and Coronation- as I chose to go to Portugal in May to escape the UK dribbling, bowing and fixation on two oldies in ridiculous costume! 🤣

[@twistedsteeltv6130]

British and I agree with you. Couldn't give a hoot about the "Royals". They're just all the same rich people to me.

[@davidmcculloch8490]

I encountered a similar thing in the past, when an ex-boss described people from the so-called elite schools as more confident. After experiencing and analysing this phenomena, I believe it to be an inflated sense of entitlement. Often this manifests itself as a deficit of critical thinking and a surfeit of bullshit and bluster.

[@nk-gp1ml]

Absolutely correct. Bullshit, bluster and entitlement. Useful qualities for the empire, not so good for modern Blighty.

[@joegaffney8006]

Of course they are more confident they have allot less to worry about.

[@watamatafoyu]

They're more confident and capable because they've had less challenges and more privilege. It's a weighted scale.

[@jamesregiste960]

Poverty is violence!

[@oldishandwoke-ish1181]

@@watamatafoyu More confident yes, more capable ... not necessarily.

[@mayabaranova2178]

I remember when I really upset a colleague in work when I was asked whether I watch Downton Abbey. I answered that, after long years of recommendation, I watched one serie and found it very disturbing as the show is a kind promotion for feudalism. There is a glorification of inequality in it. As to work 16 hours for a day for most of your life and never able to afford your own house or struggle to have decent clothing is somehow the only one decent way of living. It promotes a society without social mobility where everyone understand their place and no one desire to move up on social ladder. The society where a wealthy minoriry rules base on their birth right while majority pursue living is to be in their service and depending on their generosity. It was one of most depressing thing I was unlucky to see. Especially because so many viewers love it and never understanding how subconsciously are brain washed to believe that this desirable way of living.🤦‍♀️

[@oldishandwoke-ish1181]

Absolutely. I have long considered it propaganda for the class system.

[@cerealflakes12]

Gosford Park >>> Downton Abbey

[@wendwllhickey6426]

People that have so much are so unhappy cause they don't have it all and want people to be surfs .

[@lorraine7960]

@@oldishandwoke-ish1181 It was written by a Tory in HoL I watched it for a while, then there was an episode where everyone was panicking because there was no one to dress the 'ladies'.

[@themsmloveswar3985]

I was once asked the same question I answered that I stopped w watching television ten years ago. That shut the question down immediately. TV is a waste of time.

[@cadenza3210]

I like how Ash does not just ask a series of pre-planned questions in her interviews. She actually listens and engages in a conversation.

[@cadenza3210]

@@DonTavvit And uses "like" too often.

[@shanemcgloin3615]

​@@DonTavvitgb news??? Are you taking the piss??

[@Andrew-su7vd]

Novara-Media news.

[@benmacloughlin2612]

I just like Ash full stop. She’s mint like. Completely lush. The geordies love her like. She’s started a fire within me 🔥 & when it’s cooled down I’d love to have Ash in my mouth like. Ash I love you. We need you. Loved this interview. Dismantle toxic educational apartheid yesterday ❤

[@SuzanneO707]

Yes its very organic, free thinking. It can be done, to a certain point.

[@joncumberbatch852]

Richard Wolff "we used to have King's now we have CEOs"

[@scepticalsaint]

I remember being stunned in my third year of university to find many of my friends had received this weird thing called “private tuition” at school. Post-grads had taught them maths and science throughout their exam years (GCSE and A-Level). And fully qualified, practicing teachers had prepared them - in one to one sessions - for their exams. Frankly, I was happy when my family could afford shoes and trousers without holes in them in exam years. But it never made me angry. Now I had a good idea of what I could achieve on my own.They didn’t. The trade-off seemed worth it (although, I concede I thought that way because I was working class.)

[@ciaranryan5265]

Why didn't it make you angry?

[@scepticalsaint]

@@ciaranryan5265 I suppose because I knew I’d earned what I’d achieved; or, at least, earned more of it. They’d always have to wonder if their high grades were down to them or their parents’ income. (And now I’m a teacher, I can tell you that one-to-one tuition makes a massive difference. I refuse to accept money from individuals for teaching.) Also, we don’t want all the bright, capable people grouped at the top of the system. And, as long as everyone gets what they need to be healthy and happy, I’m ok if some get more than they deserve.

[@CC-hx5fz]

In another post, I said that my Aunt got into Cambridge, in the 40s, through the state school system. That's not strictly true. My Grandmother was forced to give up teaching when she married, but they had a shop. So, she could work and look after my Aunt, who was very ill with TB and missed entire years of schooling at times. My Aunt had dedicated teaching from an extremely clever woman. Apart from passing on knowledge, my Gran gave her total attention and a sense that she couldn't possibly fail. Most kids don't get that.

[@HABLA_GUIRRRI]

pls make sense

[@Darkwasthenightcold]

This is spot on! I wish more people we're talking about this!!!

[@SuzanneO707]

Its like banging your head on a brick wall.

[@gaspode505]

Establishment don't see money laundering as a problem. Just as opportunities for profits. There is army of lawyers consultants and accountants ready for oligarchs in UK 😂 They run the show not those crowns from Westminster

[@frankshailes3205]

The Big Four accountancy firms were asked to wrote the tax code. They inserted backdoors and loopholes for their clients. Labour don't point this out.

[@chickenfishhybrid44]

​@frankshailes3205 probably because some of them are in on it or stand to benefit from it themselves.

[@leviathon2]

Very glad others are paying attention to these characteristics of British society. I’ve been observing them and lamenting them my whole cult life. Until things change we will never become a responsible modern nation that can be taken seriously.

[@andreaclarke2745]

Discussed areas I hadn't given a lot of thought to. Quite unpleasant class system and now ruthless oligarchs .

[@shanemcgloin3615]

Snap

[@davidthomas5990]

an arstocrat is a norman descent, an oligarch is more democratic he can be anyone with the money

[@cleonawallace376]

Great interview on an important topic. I went to Oxford University from a state school back in 94, and it was a total eye-opener for me about how the elite really see us normal people, and especially people from the North. I never came across Bullingdon people, although I have witnessed horrible behaviour in restaurants and in college. I'm writing a solarpunk novel set in 2050 and I'd love it if a follow up would be where is this all going, and how badly will that part of society try to hold on to their inflated wealth and power. Will they push it until people are back living like the slums of the 19th century?

[@lovejusticepeace1935]

The short answer to your question is yes, they will push it until people are back to living like the slums of the 19th century.

[@view1st]

​@@lovejusticepeace1935 Or the wattle and daub mud huts of the Anglo-Saxons of the Norman conquest.

[@oldishandwoke-ish1181]

Yes, they will.

[@mimiayako]

@cleonawallace376 Fingers crossed you end up writing your Solarpunk story. I strongly believe in a passive world, kind of for the movie Wall-E, nothing will change positively and our society will regress back to worse times for the masses (we're already seeing this happening).

[@ZubairAhmed-od2xv]

Most definitely.

[@stevenredpath9332]

The aristocracy has seen its power and influence decline over the last century. They have reacted as any power-bloc acts under such circumstances.

[@ConstructiveMinds100]

Have been saying this for few years. Oligarchs, billioners are the new Royals.

[@johnmightymole2284]

The British ruling class puts aquiring wealth above creating wealth. Cash for gold. Buy to let. Bet 365.

[@swarming1092]

Really identified with Sam's final comment. Like, going abroad and just thinking "why can't we be like that?" I'm not even asking for like a communist revolution or anything. Just like a basically decent social democracy in which the poor and vulnerable are looked after and people are support to work hard to raise and support their families etc. It's not radical

[@rachelpettet2818]

5:14 in a word..revolution.

[@o_o8203]

Capitalism requires an impoverished class. Maybe you don't want a communist revolution but you're basically calling for an anti-capitalist revolution.

[@user-lo3er3th8g]

What about the rest of the world who's exploitation is relied upon in order to "just take care of the poor" in social democracies

[@NeonNion]

You see, the problem is that social democracy is still based on an exploitative growth-dependent imperialistic capitalistic system. I'm telling you this as a Finnish person.

[@petrus_red]

One of my colleagues was saying Jeremy Corbyn would be considered a soft left politician in most places in mainland Europe. In the uk he was considered on the extreme left

[@premierexterior8720]

"£8bn needed to keep pace with demand for social care in England over the next decade." The Financial Times. "Abolishing inheritance tax is an unfunded tax cut (for the wealthy) of £7.2bn per year." The Independent.

[@alancornes8916]

Excellent discussion. Sam, try and say ‘like’ a little less.

[@KatieScarlett2353]

I've never heard an interviewee say "like" so often! It did become a little irritating.

[@PhoebeMostafa]

There is nothing wrong with saying 'like' if you belong to a society which uses 'like' as a filler as well as its former meanings. Sam and Ash both belong to this society, like millions of others in Britain today.

[@lorraine7960]

@@KatieScarlett2353 Sorry, it's probably because he didn't go to public school or grow up in the north.

[@missieclassy]

My only criticism of this brilliant conversation... "Like" and "You know". Sam!

[@lorraine7960]

We do that here in the North.

[@jessicaw8682]

Great discussion! You have explained why our government has made idiotic policies with disastrous consequences one after another.

[@TheEndo2012]

I find it so curious when brits say things like "we shouldn't associate with such and such country because of their human rights abuses". Um sir do you know what your country is and has been up to?

[@HABLA_GUIRRRI]

what i love is when the english say ''sorry'' when someone steps on their toe or just happens to be even slightly in someones way in a street. In Spain u hear it every day. So shit scared of a vengative world coming to rip ones toys away in a rage and put one on the world naughty step for eternity. Hypocrisy up to 11.

[@007nadineL]

I'm laughing cuz I had the exact same thought

[@oldreprobate2748]

This is happening in every capitalist country. Here in the USA the oligarchy has nearly dominated any democracy we might have.

[@cfofana4502]

Exactly, you are right !

[@johnmoorefilm]

Sams brilliant insight that the oligarchy replaces the aristocracy has an echo in the 1900-1920 period when great swathes of the manor-house set lost their cash and went to New York to snag a Vanderbilt - its coverd exhaustively in that multi-part documentary “Downton Abbey”. 😮‍💨

[@margaretgreenwood4243]

Brilliant observation all round. I totally agree. Respect to you both

[@juliahartshorn2473]

Interesting discussion - I do wish that the constant repetition of, 'like', could be edited out, it's REALLY grating 😬

[@lorraine7960]

I come from the North and I find it very difficult to not say 'like' and 'you know' in long conversations. Have tried, but just can't. Should have gone to public school and had it trained out of me.

[@BIGCOLINable]

@@lorraine7960I, like, come from, like, the north, you know, but, like, you know, never say ‘like’ or ‘you know’ when I, like, am, you know, talking. I, you know, wonder, like, if he, like, writes, you know, as he, like, speaks. So, like, irritating. Pity, as, like, otherwise, you know, it, like, would have, like, been, like, so interesting, you know. Even, like, you know, the predictive text, you know, has, like, joined in. Well, I, like, managed, like, to resist, like, the urge, you know, to, like turning it off, and, like, got, you know, to the end. So important that this subject be discussed though, you know.

[@wolfboy.]

I had a drink every time he said "like". I am dead now.

[@ConstructiveMinds100]

At least the world would be DEFINITELY better place to live. Go for it.

[@harryb451]

Another great Ash interview.

[@davidcarr2216]

The best one yet. Well done Ash. The GOAT new media interviewer.

[@larryodonnell9320]

Old Canadian here. I was offered a football scholarship ( N.A. football) to attend Lakefield College which was a top 10 school in the country. I turned it down because I didn't want to go with all those moronic snobs. My factory worker father was quite upset. The next year Prince Andrew attended and my dad renewed in his anger as I 'could be going to school with the Queens son. Trying to explain that he wouldn't have anything to do with me anyway was pointless. Being a poor scholarship kid, they would have brutal to deal with

[@larryodonnell9320]

@@keithparker1346 I went to my local high school and lived (and continue to live) a life of working class poverty. I've sometimes felt I should have bit the bullet and gone but....

[@chickenfishhybrid44]

​@@larryodonnell9320should have gone. But such is life, onwards.

[@007nadineL]

I feel like you should have gone. Why are you judging these people before they've even met you

[@markniblack7160]

Terrific conversation!

[@trepicks]

Very interesting and informative. However the filler use of “like” began to grate after a while. Sorry.

[@mdjnsn]

Durham was like that when I attended fifteen years ago and I'm totally unsurprised that it hasn't changed a bit.

[@JustJanitor]

This was really enjoyable to watch and listen to, thank you

[@johnmoorefilm]

I do wonder why, at some point, a restaurant owner didn’t lock the doors, call up his mates and the 300lb East German chef and hammer the Farrow & Ball out of them….

[@gitteholmen8156]

Here in Denmark The politicians and their friends in The EU and their Friends among BIG business have in fact - in a period of +30 years - reformed our society into a more and more freemarket neoliberalist country with all public institutions imploding (done in purpose of cause), less and less people being able to get social benefits, public housing being more and more difficult combined with all sorts of public spending that does only benefit The Rich and middleclass people (also more and more tax cuts among The rich)Which is all very different to The socialdemocratic State with great social welfare for all that We had not so many years ago. And most people are stil not aware if These changes and still believe that it is all business as usual - except from the poorest and socio-economic bad-off people that have indeed felt it on their own bodies, also due to more and more privatized health care. I have always felt very fortunate to be born and raised in Denmark but now a days it stinks. Greetings from Copenhagen

[@TheSlinkyinky]

Interesting.... and how is it for middle workers>? How is pay rate in line with cost of living? x

[@gitteholmen8156]

Still good, ok, but it is a very slow process so many middelclass people have not yet realized what is going on and many are still not affected.

[@davepand]

Exactly the case here in Australia

[@Gumardee_coins_and_banknotes]

This is also happening in Australia, our gas companies get half their gas for free, they make billions. It is a worldwide thing.

[@julianshepherd2038]

At St Andrews they dress up and wander the town with champagne bottles. They dont do that in Glasgow.

[@ABUTARI70]

The arrogance of now and of us, to think we know way more than those in the past

[@DrDanWeaver]

Great stuff. Thanks for introducing cool people. Have to watch this in sections as I might throw my phone out the window.

[@sstarklite2181]

Thank you for writing this book. I wish every single person, poor and rich, would read it.

[@ishtiaqkhattak7528]

Same as Aitchison College in Pakistan. The Students considered themselves they are to rule the country.

[@concernedpatriot7694]

Enlightening and enjoyable discussion, though the number of times 'like' was mentioned was a tad irritating. However, that did not detract from the courage and candour of Sam Bright and his delightfully down to earth interviewer. I bought his book a few minutes ago, based on this interview and wish him well.

[@wrmty56413]

I hope the editor of the book took the 'likes' out

[@paulk9184]

Part of his accent, like.

[@lorraine7960]

@@paulk9184 I think it's a northern thing, like. As a Northerner I say it a lot myself, you know. Can't help it, it's in my northern DNA, like.

[@danielc6106]

I read your comment about halfway through, and realised I had been filtering "like" out, the whole time. After that, it became extremely annoying. ☹️ Nevertheless, the interview was very interesting and simultaneously saddening.

[@concernedpatriot7694]

😂@@paulk9184

[@j.p.9669]

I always feel like people mistake the merchantile class for the aristocratic class.

[@karenmerrin3824]

Thanks for incisive commentary and for never backing off!

[@007nadineL]

KZbin says thank you for that 2:50 donation

[@utredutredson1686]

Fascinating, excellent work

[@wovokanarchy]

How is English classism any different from India's caste system?

[@csharpe5787]

It isn't

[@ryanseddon4800]

It’s not different because India’s caste system is a British colonial product…. So well done for spotting that

[@KatieScarlett2353]

@@ryanseddon4800 Gosh, is it? Did British colonialists invent brahmins and all that?

[@GaudiumEssendi]

@@ryanseddon4800 I think your knowledge of Indian history is sorely lacking, Ryan. The Rig Veda only predates the British Empire by around 3,000 years!

[@HABLA_GUIRRRI]

water is wet, salt is salty ----- some will always find reason to object if it helps their victims' entitlement

[@xikano8573]

Ash is a little bad@ass...she runs an interview like it's nobody's business! Sam, thanks so much for your work, dude! 👏👏👏

[@joshuacunnigham]

Seething with contempt watching this. Great interview.

[@ian2armannduccio]

Sam, if I may interject, and I'm coming from a supportive angle here, I'd 'like' to say that you have a bad habit in your spoken (not your written) language. The word that you uttered, very very much more frequently than any other in this entire discussion, is "like". It's distracting, and tends to make listeners, well, me at least, develop an aversion to this tendency. Like, I hope you don't mind, like, my pointing this out? (there's another thing - uptalk? which makes every statement? sound like a question? you could cut back on that too as you get older [i appreciate that you're young yet] and I believe that would enhance the transmissibility and reception of the message. It's a great message. Keep plugging it.

[@Skembear000]

Love what Sam says, but crikey, I wouldn't like to play a 'like' drinking game, you'd end up with alcohol poisoning

[@christophernicol5266]

That was ...LIKE...a good conversation 👍

[@TheBigBangkokTheory]

First time i have heard of and listened to Ash, but wow ,great intelligent articulate interviewer,great podcast.

[@adamwatson6916]

She doesn't want to end the oligarchy. She just wants different oligarchs on charge.

[@stevenhunter5799]

Good interview!! 👍

[@annchristine47]

As a septuagenarian,I am realizing nothing has changed.There remains a lot of antipathy between the Scots and the English also.

[@nickowen5310]

Cut "like" from this interview and it would be 15 mins long. Like it all the same 😊

[@cadenza3210]

It was annoying after a while though what he had to say was interesting so I stuck with it. By contrast, Ash speaks in coherent paragraphs and I could listen to her all day.

[@pipster1891]

I don't believe in Saatchi's comment about Thatcher (40:10) that she would have hated today's monopolies and lack of competition in the market. I think she would have been absolutely fine with it.

[@maddang1797]

Ditto. Rose tinted specs. If she believed in Competition then why did she gift british satellite broadcasting to sky tv When they were both performing so badly

[@CC-hx5fz]

I can't agree. I think she was sincere (but deluded) about meritocracy. One area of competition was education. As soon as Thatcher showed the aristocracy that Grammar Schools were educating their replacements in political power, the Grammar Schools were abolished in a relatively short amount of time. Can you think of any other social change that was choreographed to move so quickly? The left got behind that because they also have their elites to protect.

[@VortexMotiveVision]

Great stuff!

[@erikolsen6269]

Thanks for your videos. Youre the best Ash

[@martinhammett8121]

Oh the irony of the adverts that play in this !

[@timlambert6058]

I like "like" this. Very good content, love hearing these interviews

[@louislorenzi-prince3842]

A feeling as strong as "hate" will need to be felt in order for radical democratic change to occur; without that, it's all just talk and finger-pointing.

[@nabilfreeman]

This interviews are getting *really* good

[@TheBurdenOfHope]

Amazing interview.

[@csharpe5787]

It seems to me very simple, if you have money you can exploite the systems.

[@ltmund]

True, but there's a bucket load of nuance. If the system is designed to promote success by awarding money, and money leads to influence then the system is working. Corruption isn't part of the system. If influence leads to more money via corruption then the system is broken. Capitalism is a complex beast.

[@northyorkshirechris5735]

Fascinating interview. We definitely need more Sam Brights in UK journalism.

[@citygasbatteryriot964]

_ the english forced their language on us, and we made it beautiful", said an Irish Settled to to an Irish Traveller, both great singers.

[@foofkanon]

At least the empire gave us Ash, a true English Princess.

[@guenzburghdcl7637]

I have been saying the same things for ages , nice to see people are waking up - tax the rich to death take your country and your homes back , close the borders

[@erinaltstadt4234]

Yea, rough justice is better than nothing

[@willsetchell4222]

Rough justice is practically essential

[@shanemcgloin3615]

Only good politician is a d#&! one, fact...

[@derekwhite2929]

There was no good old days and now things are much worse than Victorian Britain's dire history; it's much much worse than that now!

[@rlmtrelomatt7390]

Read Burmese Days By George Orwell. To understand how ingrained these ways of disgraceful expression is so natural to certain upper classes.

[@nemian618]

"........ like".

[@michaelstamper5604]

If we could have done away with "like" every three seconds and "y'know" every ten seconds, it would have sounded significantly more as if Sam was fully in command of his subject. Other than that, though, an interesting interview with some very salient points.

[@paulwebster4499]

I would never criticize you, Ash, However, Brexit was a protest vote by the lower and middle classes due to financial malaise

[@cfofana4502]

Interesting analysis of the situation in UK

[@EricaFiore]

"One simply must, mustn't one". This person making sure they were heard by all present. Thick as box of rocks ... despite a privileged education.

[@Stef.OmegaD]

Thanks

[@watamatafoyu]

It's hard to find people like these two in the US to have conversations like this. The ones that exist aren't as sophisticated or educated.

[@chickenfishhybrid44]

Because most of the sophisticated, educated people in the US have more opportunities in the private sector to make good money. Or they're often in the government or some part of the bureaucracy blob.

[@catherinesengupta4699]

Like, like, like....omg!

[@Big-Campbell]

Like, like, like, like, couldn’t finish this because of the like, like, like.

[@scooble]

I also recommend a book called 'Wounded Leaders' by Nick Duffel on the same subject of private schools and entitlement

[@twogsds]

I would also recommend Sad Little Men, by Richard Beard he was educated at the same time and in the same kind of boarding school as Cameron and Johnson, you would see how their characters are formed and the disinterested attitudes that you witnessed are down to disassociation, developed to protect their vulnerability when they become stressed, it's a form of armour.

[@katadam2186]

@@twogsdsIt a form of NPD narcissistic personality disorder, it can be inflicted on rich kids or from a poor parent to influence the child to conform to what they say and think

[@twogsds]

@@katadam2186 that's interesting, thanks for telling me. As a boarding school survivor I have only really found out about the effects of being sent to boarding school.

[@BabelSongs]

I enjoy Sam's contributions to Novara, I hope you have him on loafs more. This may be partly cos I'm a northerner

[@juliewake4585]

It is nice isn’t it? It dues seem that most of the contributors (I do love them of course) are from the south.

[@samdegoeij6576]

I think what he's highlighting here is disgusting and I feel sorry for the British working class as a Dutchmen, we have an ultra-light version and our royals are way more PR-savy and engaged (it helps that their control over the press is very direct and if anything is reporting they don't like, there's multimillion euro lawfare, which is always massively tilted in its favour) but, except for the royal family and their direct relatives there are no aristocrats in the original sense of the word left.

[@antoinettekankindi6807]

The "like" in the conversation is distracting, very interesting discussion though

[@bobbygardiner6840]

Selling of the country, Taymount Castle project is an outstanding example.🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[@stephenhickman304]

My parents were in the Armed Forces and continually had to move with the regiment so I was sent to boarding school to give me continuity in my education. Many of the lads I was at school with came from a similar background - it certainly didn’t affect me or other in any adverse way . Too many sweeping comments and perceptions here - you need to get out more , talk to people as most of us weren’t in the Bullingdon Club.

[@DecMurphy]

I agree with almost everything that was said here, but I don't think that social democracy shouldn't be our aim, it's not enough. We had social democracy here for 30 years and the reason the neoliberal counter-revolution was able to destroy it was that social democracy still fundamentally retains the capitalist mode of production in most of the economy, even if it rolls it back in some places, which is what allows a ruling class to exist in the first place. As long as you allow capitalist business practices to be legal, they're going to keep exploiting, corrupting and centralising power until we're right back here again. The European countries are experiencing the same thing in many ways, and then there's the issue of economic imperialism, so they're far from perfect, even if they're not yet as bad as here. Even with a more interventionist state, stronger trade unions, stricter regulations, renationalising public services, etc., it's at best a temporary decentralisation of power. In order to address the multiple overlapping crises of our time we need to be even more ambitious than that. We need a permanent decentralisation of power which requires that we do away with market allocation, the private ownership of capital and wage labour entirely and transition to a socialist mode of production i.e. the democratic ownership and planning of the entire economy. Such fundamental economic change, as Thatcher understood, can only be achieved with an accompanying cultural change, without which the popular support for it won't exist. Which is why we need to break out of this self-defeating bourgeois mindset of individualism, social mobility and temporarily embarrassed millionaires and work to restore proletarian consciousness and solidarity. We can do this by rebuilding the power base of the working class through things like unions, co-operatives, mutual aid networks, community ownership and local government, which foster class consciousness and give ordinary people a means through which to assert their collective power, and by challenging bourgeois narratives through independent media like Novara.

[@kriegfaust]

@@JeffPietersen Put a dot on this circle O, rotate through one revolution and you will see you are back where you started. A paradigm shift is what is needed and sadly I don't see human consciousness moving in that direction much at all.

[@browncow7113]

The thing is that you have to answer the question of how, practically, you are going to get from A to B without invoking unrealistic levels of commitment on behalf of people. I mean, take, for example, the Preston Model, which is a good example of the sort of approach you advocate. So, we would need to get this model adopted by groups of councillors in a large fraction of UK counties and towns, even those rich Southern councils where the majority of residents probably would oppose this. I think Social Democracy is a waystation, on the path to something more comprehensive. The strategy basically needs to operate on multiple fronts, and be very flexible.

[@browncow7113]

@@JeffPietersen I think it is pointless to talk about "revolution", because contemporary Western countries are not in remotely revolutionary situations. It is just a prescription for wasted effort to think in these terms. With regard to Cornwall, basically it is the same as all the other similar areas of the country like the West Midlands and Wales, and loads of the north: the government has not taken active measures to develop these areas with high-tech industry, investment, location of good universities, and so on. Its the same as in many Western countries, where you have pockets of wealth, and then large deserts of deprivation. All it would take to turn around, would be to invest heavily in these regions.

[@browncow7113]

@@JeffPietersen I agree, but with one big exception. The ABSOLUTE level of material wealth of all poor people in the UK (same with other Western countries) is still high. Even the poorest people have houses, have food, can watch movies, often drive a car, can wear nicely-designed clothes, etc etc. You won't get anything close to a revolution while that is still the case. Look at e.g. the Russian revolution - people were starving and huge numbers were dead, due to WW1. So, the result is that people in, say, the bottom 30% or 40% might be angry, but they don't experience a sufficient level of hardship to actually make them switch off Netflix, knock on their neighbour's door, and organise a rent strike (for example). Some do, but most do not. So, the Left can't rely on this. Instead, the Left needs to cobble together a coalition of the middle classes and the poor, and this requires some subtlety.

[@asielnorton345]

the problem is this. people assume democratic principles are the norm, and therefore we are safe in them. one, people fail to fully understand the fact that we actually now live in an oligarchy, and what that means. secondarily, the vast, vast, vast majority of human history has been with despotic rule of one form or another. most of europe has only consistently been a democracy since after ww2, and much of europe has only been a democracy since the 1990's. england and the usa have been republics (or oligarchies) for a few hundred years. we are very much under threat of becoming new feudal states again.

[@warrendavies73]

Genuine humans....like.😊

[@warrendavies73]

Passed the 11+...constantly told we were amongst the top two per cent. Brainwashed. Still happens in places such as Kent. 50 to 70 per cent of kids written off by total dickheads.

[@FlorinBaci]

The discussion is amazing... But a milion "like" in this conversation... 😅 Great journalistic stuff!

[@SL-sd3sg]

Very good discussion, except for the constant use of the word “like”. Very annoying!

[@bexiboo1981]

I’m so glad other people noticed! I’ve had to stop watching, I thought I was being a bit over sensitive.

[@JohnWesleyBarker]

This impoverishment did renew entirely with Thatcher.

[@dblissmn]

The house-of-cards thing in Westminster with politics and journalism is a big thing. Basically they go to one of the publicly subsidized bars in the Palace of Westminster that's accessible to both MPs and accredited journalists (not all of them, some like Moncrieffs are strictly for journos and others like the Smoking Room are strictly for MPs) and hang out and exchange not-for-attribution tips while increasingly drunk. You don't have a comparable thing on Capitol Hill in Washington; fewer, larger, less clubby catering outlets, not subsidized, you have to go off site to buy a drink there, serving alcohol even at private events is strictly regulated and requires advance notice to building management, and while it's much better set up for politicians' staff in terms of office and meeting space it's not as well set up for journalists.

[@KC-lc8dx]

The less we give attention to outdated systems, the better

[@brucehunter8235]

Hate is wildly underrated. The renowned journalist the late Alexander Cockburn used to ask new interns "is your hate pure?" If they hesitated he wouldn't hire them.

[@freddibnah1830]

I thought so little they rewarded me by making me the ruler of the queens navy, still true today

[@ario7865]

What book are they talking about?

[@stellar22323]

Wonderful content. But, please stop saying "like" all the time, Sam. Ash is great, as always.

[@DavyJonesSimRacing]

Is it just me or does the shape and shadow cast by the plant in the background over Ash's right shoulder look a bit like the mask from V for Vendetta / Anonymous 😁

[@adamrose335]

Say ‘like’ more

[@johnmoorefilm]

Re: insulation and fossil fuel companies : “I’d like to buy a bucket please…Okay: here’s a sieve….”😮