Omar (ra) and the pen and paper incident | Shia allegetions debunked

Guests on this episode:
Mohammed Hijab @mohammedhijabofficial (instragram)
Hani (founder of twelvershia.net)
Farid @farid_bhr (twitter)
If you enjoy this episode, remember to like, share and subscribe.

[@zolfagharali9143]

By not bringing the pen "Umar " disobeyede Allah and his messenger. Who is he to block messengers command. This should be a big sign of his intentions and evil mind.

[@Anskurshaikh]

idk why your rafidis cant think. Prophet issued a genneral request for pen and paper. People of the House i.e. Ahlul Bayt should have complied regardless of one man's (i.e. umar) suggestion of asking Prophet to rest. Ahlul Bayt also blocked the messengers command because instead of giving the pen & paper they started bickering. Prophet was angry with all of them. Have an honest open mind, but I doubt rafidis can do that. Imam Fakhar Ad Din Razi famously said that "An ant in the valley of ants has more intellect than a rafidi (shia)''

[@kingmo118]

@The Sunni Defence. Assalamu Alaikum Akhi. I wanted to know if I can come on the panel inshallah in the future. May Allah bless you bro.

[@aa1izera488]

If Umar 's (RA) purpose of obstructing the giving of the writing tools to Muhammed (SAW), was that he wished for himself to be the Khalifa. Then why DIDN'T he fight Abu Bakr RA for the position of 1st Khalifa. Surely if that was the motive, the position was well within his reach!! It makes no sense at all! Only diseased hearts can extrapolate this as a motive for his actions. Besides if you don't know the motives then don't assume since Umar (RA) is not here to defend the motive behind his actions. Your just accusing therefore accumulating sins for yourself.

[@bonusbertambah112]

Okay, so you are on Umar side to reject Prophet SAW. Good for you then...

[@aa1izera488]

bonus bertambah your a drama queen!! Ok good for you then!!

[@bonusbertambah112]

A few months prior to his death, the Islamic prophet Muhammad gathered all the Muslims who were with him and delivered a long sermon. The sermon included the famous statement, "to whomsoever I am Mawla, Ali is also their Mawla." After the end of the sermon, the Muslims were commanded to pledge allegiance to Ali. According to both Shia and Sunni sources, Abu Bakr, Umar, and Uthman were all among the many who pledged allegiance to Ali at the event of Ghadir Khumm. Muhammad passed away a few months after the event of Ghadir Khumm. As Ali buried Muhammad and led his funeral prayer, a group of Muslims gathered at Saqifa. At Saqifa, Umar pledged allegiance to Abu Bakr,[9][10] despite the sermon that the Prophet had delivered at Ghadir Khumm, and despite Umar's pledge of allegiance to Ali. A group of Muslims supported Abu Bakr, and became known as the Sunni; another group of Muslims kept their allegiance to Ali, and became known as the Shia. After the gathering at Saqifa, Umar and his supporters went to the house of Fatimah; Ali, his family (including Fatimah), and some of his supporters were in the house. Umar went to the door of Fatimah's house and said, "By Allah, I shall burn down (the house) over you unless you come out and give the oath of allegiance (to Abu Bakr)."[11][12][13][14][15] Zubayr ibn al-Awam, who had been in Ali's house, came out of the house with his sword drawn but reportedly tripped on something, after which Umar's supporters attacked him.[16][17] Umar, who was then in front of the door to Fatimah's house, said to Fatimah, "I know that the Prophet of God did not love any one more than you, but this will not stop me from carrying out my decision. If these people stay in your house, I will burn the door in front of you."[18] According to another narration, Umar asked for wood, and then told those inside the house, "I swear by Allah who has my soul in his hand, that if you do not come out, I will burn the house." Umar was then informed that Fatimah was inside the house, to which he responded, "So what! It doesn’t matter to me who is in the house."[19][20] It is reported that when Fatimah heard the voices of Umar and his supporters threatening to attack the house, she cried out, "O father, O Messenger of Allah, how are Umar Ibn al-Khattab and Abu Bakr Ibn Abi Quhafah treating us after you and how do they meet us."[4] The house was then attacked. Umar and his supporters burned the door of the house; they crushed Fatimah between the door and the wall of the house, they killed Moshin, the baby in her stomach, and they forced Ali out of the house against his will.[21][22][23] According to some narrations, a rope was tied around Ali's neck.[24][25][26][27][28][29] The famous historian Abul Hasan Ali Ibn al-Husayn al-Mas’udi wrote the following in his book Isbaat al-Wasiyyah: They surrounded ‘Ali (as) and burned the door of his house and pulled him out against his will and pressed the leader of all women (Hadhrat Fatimah (sa)) between the door and the wall killing Mohsin (the male-child she was carrying in her womb for six months). Another Sunni historian, Salahuddin Khalil al-Safadi, wrote in his book Waafi al- Wafiyyaat that "Umar hit Fatimah (sa) on the stomach such that child in her womb died."[30] Umar and his companions dragged Ali away. Fatimah urged them to stop, saying, "I will not permit Ali (a.s.) to be dragged with such cruelty and injustice. Woe be upon you, O people! How soon did you usurp our rights in relation to Allah and His Prophet (s.a.w.)." Umar then ordered Qunfuz to whip Fatimah. According to some narrations, Qunfuz whipped her back and her arms;[31] according to another, he struck her face;[32] according to another, he pushed her so hard that he smashed her ribs.[24] According to another report, Khalid bin Walid struck Fatimah with his sword; another report states that Moghayrah Ibne’ Sho’bah struck her with his sword.[24] Jump up ^ History of Tabari, Volume 1. pp. 1118-1120. Jump up ^ History of Ibn Athir, Volume 2. p. 325. Jump up ^ Ibn Abd Al-Barr. al-Isti’ab, Volume 3. p. 975. Jump up ^ Ibn Qutaybah. Tarikh al-Kulafa, Volume 1. p. 20. Jump up ^ Ibn Qutaybah. al-Imamah wal-Siyasah, Volume 1. pp. 19-20. Jump up ^ History of Tabari, Volume 9. pp. 186-187. Jump up ^ Madelung, Wilferd. The Succession to Muhammad. pp. 43-44. Jump up ^ Kanz al-Ummal, Volume 3. p. 140. Jump up ^ Ibn Qutaybah. al-Imamah wa al-Siyasah, Volume 1. p. 3. Jump up ^ Ibn Qutaybah. al-Imamah wa al-Siyasah, Volume 1. pp. 19-20. Jump up ^ Buehler, Arthur F. (2014). "Fatima". In Coeli Fitzpatrick; Adam Hani Walker. Muhammad in History, Thought, and Culture: An Encyclopedia of the Prophet of God. 1. Santa Barbara, California: ABC-CLIO. p. 186. ISBN 978-1-61069-178-9. Jump up ^ Sulaym bin Qays al-Hilali. "Hadith 4". Kitab Sulaym Ibn Qays al-Hilali. Al-khoei.org. pp. 48-67. Archived from the original on 6 July 2010. Retrieved 4 March 2012. Jump up ^ Al-Shahrastani. Al-Milal wa al-Nihal كتاب: الملل والنحل **|نداء الإيمان (in Arabic). Al-eman.com. Retrieved 4 March 2012. That a troublesome theologian called al-Naẓẓām (d. 231 AH) "increased his lying deception" and said: "Umar kicked Fatima's stomach on the day of allegiance until she miscarried and he yelled: "Burn her house and whoever is in it" and in it were Ali, Fatima, al-Hasan and al-Husayn."

[@aa1izera488]

bonus bertambah Cool story lol. I didn't bother reading it. I don't live in a fantasy world 🙄🙄, whatever floats your boat

[@bonusbertambah112]

why didn't you reading it? can't stand the truth? LOL . Allright then, Assalamulaikum

[@rubymunday3557]

i know that we are supposed to love Rasulallah sallu alai wasallam more than our parents and simply everyone who loved him would have been heartbroken to see him so ill. i remember how excruciatingly painful it was when my mother was dying and in so much pain, all the children knew she had made no official will but it would have been really selfish to bother her with that seeing as she was half in this world and half in the next and in agony. nobody would be that cruel and selfish and without human decency and remember this person was the most loved and revered of all people to his people so whoever was forcing or expecting him to write things out for them would have been very selfish and self obsessed in the first place. to my mind everything that had needed to be said had already been said at Arafat at the time of the farewell pilgrimage. and i myself would throw out people making noise and being disrespectful and rude and demanding in a very small enclosed space as was the house of Ayesha RA.I would have expected all of them to wait quietly outside and be very still and sad and praying for the wellbeing of Rasulallah. s.a.w. i dislike intensely the shia who always side with the haters of islam at every opportunity in opposition to sunnah islam even to the point of supporting people like Tan and Raj and baboon worshippers titans t.v. which is shameful. before seeing their tactics i thought the differences were only in name and did not know how far they have deviated away from orthodox islam. in any case the shia of today cannot carry on blaming sunni muslims of today for everything they feel happened in the past without any concrete proof or evidence. they reallyy do diq out conspiritorial theories out of everything.

[@baazal]

Isn't it depth of ignorance and height of mere hatred of Shias when they blame Syedna Umar Farooque RA for not bringing Pen and paper or preventing others of bringing Pen and paper , There are few points for Shias seeking truth, 1- It was not house of Umar Farooque RA, Where he would be responsible to provide pen and paper, in first Place. 2- It Was house of Prophet PBUH where His cousin Syedna Ali RA and Syedna Abbas R A and other members of Bani Abdul Mutlib were in position to provide Pen and paper on demand of Prophet PBUH. 3- House of Umar Farooque RA was far away from the House of Prophet PBUH. 4- Considering the discomfort of Prophet PBUH in that condition, Umar Farooque RA referred to QURAN , Which Prophet PBUH always taught throuh out his life to stick to and find solution for issues from. 5- If providing Pen and paper was significantly important then, Syedna Ali RA and other Members of Bani Hashim would provide Pen and paper at any cost, being AhlulBait they were supposed to comply the demand ignoring the suggestion of Syedna UmarFarooque RA. 6- If demanding pen and paper was interpreted as the intention of the Prophet PBUH to nominate Syedna Ali RA as next leader of Muslims then Prophet PBUH lived days after that and never mentioned his desire or advice to Muslims about nomination of ALIRA as next leader. 7- while Being physically unable to lead the Prayers in Masjid He PBUH rather called Abu Bakr RA and appointed Him as imam of Muslims to lead the Prayers in presence of Syedna Umar Farooque RA, Syedna Usman RA and SyednaAli RA which explains The legitimacy of AbuBakr RA as 1st Khalifa of Prophet PBUH after his death.

[@aa1izera488]

ShiaMuslim another lie!!

[@aa1izera488]

ShiaMuslim don't come at me with questions!! my comment was regarding your accusation. attributing a belief to people other then that which they hold. Hence your a liar Quote: For them, sahabas are better then prophet" Bring the evidence if your sincere. show me one place where they say that! Fear Allah!

[@aa1izera488]

Yusuf Best another lie.It is clear what he said as his comment is still there for everyone to judge for themselves. Then you have the audacity to say "he didn't say that you did". still awaiting evidence for that accusation! defending the prophets companions against slander doesn't constitute thinking they are "better that the prophet! Try again. Try to be honest I know it's difficult but just try.

[@aa1izera488]

ShiaMuslim yup same warped mentality so ofcourse you would have said the same. You are the ones who worship ali RA "ya ali" "ya ali madad" Ali (RA) is free from you all and he isn't helping you either. Just because you worship people you think the rest of the world does the same. News for you i worship Allah alone and don't invoke anyone other than Allah!! Now unless you can't provide evidence for your lie leave me alone!!

[@aa1izera488]

Yusuf Best miscomprehension lol is that what you call it. Like I said the message the guy wrote is still there for everyone to judge for themselves. Besides why you butting into this conversation I wasn't talking to you. i am sure he is capable of talking for himself and providing his own evidences. I have no interest in talking to you!!

[@HasanAhmed-tk7vy]

Brother Fareed's voice hypnotises and puts me to sleep 😂

[@mrmuwahhid140]

Assalaamu alaikom ikhwaan. With regards to the book of Allah is sufficient for us. The book of Allah points to the sunnah so to say the book of Allah is sufficient, Umar radhiallahu anhu is correct because it circles back to the Sunnah as well. Allahu 'aalam. May Allah bless you brothers. Aameen

[@muad6987]

@The Sunni Defence, Assalamu Alaikum Warhamtullah. May Allah bless u akhi. How does someone come onto your show?

[@muad6987]

loooooooooooooooooooool

[@ramteluk7888]

may Allah bless you all brothers

[@followerfollower8818]

is this really a replay to allegations

[@muhammadmalik2449]

How would anyone know what muhammad pbuh was going to write.? Why only fixation on the khilafat of Ali ra.

[@ahmedahmud5281]

Most apologetic excuse i ever heard about this incident:" They wanted for Prophet s.a.w.s. to rest so they don't interrupt him by writing will he asked to dictate to them", few moments later, they start arguing and YELLING, making NOISE to the point where Prophet in pain has to kick them out... 😂🤣😂🤣 I am sunni, but i accept that that was not right from Umar, even tho it is not his first time to yell in front of prophet, when he argued with abu bakr may Allah have mercy upon them. Be realistic and fair to sahabah, don't go to selefi fairytale about romance of sahabah, neither do do takfeer as shia do... Say what is wrong and what is good about them... That is it, be sincere.

[@alameri563]

If the profit was willing to write a well or something, how Shias believe that was only for Ali? it could be a fever of other Sahabas too, why not?

[@daudfw8440]

Pound for Pound the best place to learn of Sunna amd shia, the biggest red flag of shia channels appearing intellectual but rather vulgar.

[@muhammadmalik2449]

Muhammad pbuh was, moadhallah, of such a weak courage and personality that He (pbuh) did not declare the Ali ra to be His KHALEEFA.

[@XxFiQxX]

Denial is amusing to watch

[@XxFiQxX]

my name is my name there is enough light for those who wish to see.. At the end of the day, we answer for our own deeds at the day of judgment. You have your way of deen and we have ours. Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh.

[@guccibase]

Abu Ali you're eyes are closed. You can't even see the light

[@XxFiQxX]

Tahir Nasri alhamdulillah I left sunni hypocrisy and embraced the path of Quran and Ahlul-Bayt as mentioned in your own books. If I am misguiding to you, then as u often mention to those who have done worse (hypocrisy towards Rasulullah sawa) may Allah forgive me and I get 1 reward for ijtihad. If however I am on truth and the sunni path is on falsehood then may Allah be Merciful to those who love Rasulullah and at the same time love his enemies and the hypocrites. Salam.

[@guccibase]

Abu Ali so following the Quran and sunnah of the prophet SAW is falsehood? No buying into your propaganda and conspiracy theories is falsehood? Believing RasulAllah conveyed the message completely before dying is falsehood? Loving the people who gave the life, soul, family,properties and fought and died for Islam is falsehood?? Not choosing between the Sahaba and ahlul bait but loving them all and taking religion from both of them is falsehood? May Allah guide you brother.

[@XxFiQxX]

Tahir Nasri 1) following sunnah is already warranted by the Quran. 2)the only propaganda is from Sunnis who taught me that Shia were mushriks but I was wrong. When I learnt about them I found out I was lied too, especially about Ghadeer, about hadith of 12 Caliphs, about Battle of Jamal, Siffin and finally, Karbala. Why were these topics hidden in madrasahs? 3) yes, Rasulullah conveyed it completely and finished off at Ghadeer Khumm. Imams never brought anything new they are all the reflection and paths towards Rasulullah sawa and true Islam. 4) we revere those sahabah who were just and were not hypocrites to Rasulullah and obeyed his orders. For those who after Rasulullah sawa death disobeyed him, as per in sunni hadith thy will be dealt with accordingly. (Book 60 hadith 29) 5) when ahlulbayt fights again sahabah den who is on the Haq and who is in the wrong? Taking from both the righteous and the wrong is mixing truth and falsehood. May Allah guide us all brother.

[@jahangeerbhat1581]

U celebrate gadeer and weep at calamity of thurday, so strange, if shia believe that announcement of appointment of hazrat Ali r.a at gadeer happened, than why are they still discussing and mourning and speculating about calamity of thurday as appointment will of hazrat ali r.a as khilafat.

[@muhammadmalik2449]

This Hadeeth is concocted in the age of the availability of paper. Whoever concocted it did not realize that in days of the Prophet's death, there was no paper ;Moreover, all his life muhammad pbuh never said anything to anyone in writing. It was always verbal. So, this is a made up Hadeeth, no doubt.

[@harisabbasi8396]

This is in sahih Muslim I think. Or bukhari.

[@wkhan5]

@@harisabbasi8396 it is in both Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari

[@ultramannoachn.8522]

Paper exist in Rasulullah s.a.w time

[@hadinajjar9800]

May Allah strengthen our knowledge

[@benberhane838]

I didn't know prophet Muhammad could write..

[@atizaz-ali]

That proves the hypocrisy of Sunni school of thought. Didn’t understand what is meant by امی (Ummi). The prophet of Islam was taught by the Lord Almighty, he didn’t get educated by normal means. Your case can easily be destroyed by Non-Muslims who claim that the Prophet of Islam was God Forbid ignorant.

[@alsdyall]

I'm neither Sunni nor Shia, but looking at this incident, it is a calamity and a tragedy. There was clearly a coup that took place by Umar and Abu Bakr..This event doesn't conclusively prove it but it is clear evidence of it when looking at the larger picture. 1 Ghadir 2. Muhammad sending Abu Bakr and Umar away with Usama's army. And their refusal of that command! Prompting Muhammad to request pen and paper. 3. The abandoning of Muhammad's burial to secure the leadership (without Bani Hashim present). 4. The forced Bayah, 5. The denial of Fatimah's inheritance without cause. 6 And finally bullying Ali into accepting the Saqifah administration. Anyone looking at the big picture can see what was going on and what did in fact happen. Denials and apologies can't change these facts. The Quran says obey Allah and his messenger. His messenger requested a pen and paper to write something to keep his people from going astray and Umar denied him of his request.

[@Anskurshaikh]

youre a shia doing taqiyya. Stop saying you are '''neutral''' its a classic rafidi tactic. Ali, Bani Hashim and Ahlul Bayt were present in the house, they had more responsibility to give pen and paper, why are you putting all the blame on Umar. Ahlul Bayt also failed to comply to Prophets order so they also denied him of his request.

[@ZeeshanAhmed-gh5lm]

@@Anskurshaikh Not a request. As the Shia put it, Disobeyed the order. These Raifdis aren't the followers of Ahlul Bayt (R.A) I guarantee you that.

[@talalaijaz7875]

ali ra ibn abbas were also present there and also prophet as do not inherit

[@alsdyall]

@@talalaijaz7875 Allah says prophets do inherit. Qur'an 27:16 Sahih International: "And Solomon inherited David. He said, "O people, we have been taught the language of birds, and we have been given from all things. Indeed, this is evident bounty."

[@talalaijaz7875]

@@alsdyall quran says solomon inherited the knowledge of david

[@ajempire9156]

At 15:25 you just compared Omar to other prophet's people but brother you get half of your deen from this man (omar) who caused a nonsense in the last days of prophet Mohammad, yet u still get half of your deen from him by Allah I don't know how to accept your deen if u don't know Omar's innovations in Islam when he is the one who's changing tradition like my brother it's not as white and black it's crystal clear to me when prophet said 3x don't forget my household

[@ZeeshanAhmed-gh5lm]

Who forgot the Ahlul Bayt (R.A)? The Shias are not followers of Ahlul Bayt (R.A).

[@mrahman2897]

Hang on, was the Prophet (pbuh) not illiterate??

[@mrahman2897]

Isnt it commonly known the prophet saw could neither read nor write?

[@abuhanzalah5321]

He was. Established by the Qur'an and yes he asked for a pen and paper same as he asked for it when he get Wahhi.(Revelation)