⌚OMEGA 321 - Omega 321 vs 861-OK Movement |

[@pedrosaenz2800]

321 is a way to make noice. The new old moon watch movement is an anouncement from Omega that screems: We are and were the ones in the MOON!! Hopefully they would build them real watertight.

[@JohnPWatches]

* movie set

[@antonyduc990]

Nice video! I feel this 321 release fuels the hype needed by Omega to balance their very poor brand image management in the recent years. I always wanted to own a non reduced speedmaster but my wrist doesn't allow. It is beautifuly proportionned and probably worth waiting for the legendary 321 version, but when I look at all the limited editions from Omega, I just lost belief in their market understanding. Meanwhile brands like Mont-Blanc seem to totally get it. I guess we will see how it goes. Back to the speedy, the only one fitting me would be the reduced versions but they seem so overpriced. I recently went for a Sea-gull 1963 with in-house column wheel (visible) movement as my 38mm chrono and my love for it is growing everyday. This is so fun!

[@JohnPWatches]

If you can swing it, the old speedmaster (some) cases are smaller. Theres even a 40mm reference or two :) ... also FOIS modern is smaller

[@jasontoms2859]

As you suggested, If Omega will distribute spare parts to their service centers, then the importance of this reissue is greatly enhanced, being that both vintage and new markets benefit. I'm afraid that the premium over the current movement will be considerably beyond my reach, but I applaud their decision because of the time and effort it has taken them to return the 321 to production.

[@JohnPWatches]

I am not sure if they would do it, I doubt, but I wish.

[@Barmeester]

These 321 parts cant be put into the vintage 321 movements so the drought stays the same

[@ListerMotorsports]

I have vintage 321s and 861s, and several modern pieces 1861,1863. All awesome ! I love all Omega pieces equally ! Great vid John.

[@JohnPWatches]

Thanks lister motorsports!

[@freedomvan2970]

Lister Motorsports As an owner, can you speak to any love or hate between the 3 digit movements vs the 4? I know you said there’s no hate, just curious of your perspective since I don’t know anyone with your collection.

[@Jsong1]

Agreed. Def will end up on limited/special edition & it should be very successful. Omega has been practicing making (thousands of) limited edition for this very moment.

[@markleblanc3995]

John, I enjoyed your video. I think it’s great for watch enthusiasts that Omega is bringing back the 321. And I hope this gives those with vintage 321 movements an avenue to keep them running. My gut feeling tells me that they will still have to manufacture the 1861. It’s still their cash cow for the Speedmaster model. It will be interesting to see how this all works out. Stay tuned. :)

[@JohnPWatches]

I agree

[@oxysoxos]

I totally agree with you at 6:54. Please, get Hans to talk about technical things. So, educating and interesting. I always appreciate the videos that include actual watchmakers. You are pretty good too, btw. So keep it up.

[@domokun938]

Great points you made about 1861 VS 321 reliability and production costs. I agree with you on the fact that 321 is in a way moving backwards from the super modern and impressive co axial watches. Side note: I have a seagull chronograph with column wheel and it cost 250 usd. It's basically a reproduce Swiss venus chronograph movement probably using the original machines. It's amazing and works great! Makes you question how difficult it is to really make that column wheel. I also have the 1863 speed master and both feel equally good in hand.

[@JohnPWatches]

Yes there are some affordable column wheels. It becomes more expensive to work on them to a certain level of standard like Omega, finishing, long term maintenance, etc.

[@paula5482]

I have a newer Moonwatch (1863). Tempted to get one with 321. Depends on price and design. Will have to wait and see.

[@mtbone4945]

Why?

[@paula5482]

M Tbone why what?

[@janbeggebeen]

why.... does not get better than 1863. IT is extra decorated. plus you have a see-through case back i

[@JK-qm1nz]

NOOOOOO I don't see the dead clock on the top right of the video !!!!!!!!!!!! and keep up the good vids John, thanks for all the watchucation you're teaching us.

[@amundbjerve]

I compare the coaxial Speedmaster to a modern Porsche 911 with water cooled engine, fly-by-wire steering, rear wheel steering in corners, sequential gearbox, double clutch, stability control etc. The Speedmaster Professional is like an old air cooled 911 with manual gearbox. Yes, they are simpler and slower, but they are very sought after in the market, and the prices have increased dramatically lately. A new 321 Speedmaster will be as if Porsche started to produce brand new vintage air cooled 911. By the way, Porsche did make _one_ brand new 993 last year to be sold for charity. It sold for $3.1 million...

[@jangazi2742]

Nice video John P as always, honestly I don't care much about the new 321, or 1321, It is a great historical movement, but in this case I would like to own an original vintage one, if not than the 861 or 1861 is a better choice for me. And I think that they will make a limited edition of course, but in the future they will put the 321 in other series and somehow depreciate the original one. I hope that they will not but this is what I fear.

[@JohnPWatches]

Ahh thanks for coming through :)

[@jangazi2742]

@@JohnPWatches omega is a greedy company :/

[@7rslender]

Great topic. Thank you for pointing out the possible complication with a 321 compared to a 861. My guess is too, that they will at first put them only into special editions. And I am kind of fed up with all those special edition Speedys. If the 321 is still produced by Lemania for other brands ... why the heck do they need to build it themselves? Could you or Hansi explain us in what way the Lemania 321 differs to the Omega 321?

[@JohnPWatches]

I’ll ask him :)

[@freedomvan2970]

Okay John, this is your best vid yet. Sorry if you’re not trying to do this but this is awesomely cheesy (StarTrek sweater, white wall and colorful art). Also, the title is awesome. I probably would have watched the vid anyways since I subscribe but it def caught my eye.

[@freedomvan2970]

Oh, and AWESOME content!!

[@JohnPWatches]

@@freedomvan2970 Thanks Van! Actually it's not a stark trek sweater, not even sure what that would look like- it is Scotch and Soda ;) hehe

[@BoogurTWang]

Good to hear your well-reasoned issues with the re-re;ease of the 321. Well done.

[@JohnPWatches]

Thanks!

[@redatticus7606]

Great thoughts on the topic John.....The Omega cashing in when the sentiment is hot is spot on.....They will release it on a very limited edition and a very very very special limited edition.....sorry super duper fantasmogorical limited edtion.........Glad they learned something from Rolex....

[@CleverSmart123]

Especially since Lemania is still producing the 321 for Patek and others

[@dingdongfiel5504]

Psyched! Can’t wait to get one!

[@david.9633]

Great episode 👍🏽 I'm happy that you covered this topic

[@tdubnrae]

Cost of production is always quoted as why Omega moved away from the 321. I have an early 70s Column wheel chronograph. It’s an automatic not hand wound so even more complicated. Keeps outstanding time. Only $250. Not $5000. It’s a Citizen 67-9119.

[@Ranghocsing]

Yes and I would love to have one yeah... nice video jp... so painful seeing you 861.. it hurts me aw....

[@VersedNJ]

Now a days, sending products for service or buying, transporting international isn't a big deal like in was a few years back. If Omega has to send it back to Switzerland from the US, the most it will do is hold things up for a few days.

[@JohnPWatches]

Little issues become big issues at scale. There is additional cost, tracking, international regulations for customs, etc and the customer will get passed the bill in higher retail prices :(

[@light1531]

I have a nice vertical column wheel chronograph (related to Valjoux 7750) in my Omega Speedmaster Mark II reissue, modified to be coaxial with a silicon hairspring and the racing dial. Very accurate and modern tech? I do like running the chronograph as if it is a second hand, which is fun, because there is an extra wear compared to the lateral clutch. Just a point of view.

[@springinfialta106]

So some collector has an authentic vintage 321 Speedmaster. But it's been serviced because it broke, and now it no longer has the original vintage parts. Has it lost value? Also, the new 321 movements, are they made of better materials? Maybe a different grade of steel or other metal/ceramic that will last longer without breaking?

[@maximilianmohre1886]

The jumpy start in some chronos is less related to Cam lever vs column wheel but horizontal vs vertical clutch...

[@MJagger89]

My guess is 321 goes into some production watches that are limited production but not numbered.

[@lenpowell6647]

Fascinating ref ,Buzz Aldrin's original! It was owned of course by NASA? Then it disappeared in the post? Enough stuff there to chew on? Cheers.

[@richardbaptist5080]

Great video. I'm excited! Don't say 321 special edition! I'm hoping that the 321 would not be that much more expensive than a regular movement. I guess the materials and the technology have improved to make it more robust? Just a guess on my part. I've been wanting a speedy so I'll wait to see what's the pricing is on the 321. No not double retail. 1k more than a regular speedmaster. I want a sapphire case back to see the movement.

[@marctavo5288]

i have a vintage 861 and several limited edition, if I wanted a 321, I would buy an original one. I love aviation too and specially spitfire, knowing that to let them fly they had to change all the rivets because of corrosion the material is not the same are they still real spitfire ???

[@alekpd2940]

Thanks, very informative

[@wika1984]

I'm just sitting here waiting for omega to remake the 562 movement and get a watchco type seamaster.

[@j.burgess4459]

I've already registered interest (i.e. gone onto a kind of pre-release waitlist) for this watch at my AD. What would I be willing to pay? Hmm, 10,000 USD simply _has_ to be the absolute upper ceiling, I think. Damned Omega with their must-have limited editions...

[@nec4608]

Excellent video, thanks for talking about this subject the “321”. Imagine you love Jaguars, and they in 2019 make exactly the same Jag Type e from the sixties, if you love it and have the money and are over 50 years old and it is a part of yours memories when you was a kid...... you will try to get it, no matters if you have to service it with a mechanic coming from the Island no matters how much will you pay, no matters how long it will take. Also as you said, it will be good for the owners of old “ Jag” they will get spares parts and you will keep the flame of the legend.... in this case ours memories when we ( older than 50) were kids and dreaming with the moon, the rockets and “ The right stuff” , after all there is no rational thoughts it is all about passion, feelings and memories of the old good times. Thanks again for this video I really appreciated

[@JohnPWatches]

Great point :) thanks for the info.

[@tomlucas4269]

The parts will be pvd gold plated not copper plated like the old once, so not so much interchangeable parts..

[@jamiemcneil9462]

This is what I know .. The vast majority of people do not know what watch you are wearing, let alone what movement is inside of it. I own an 1861 Speedy-Pro and it is one of my favorite watches. May be the best strap watch ever, and the performance of the 1861 has been fantastic, absolutely no problems. Personally I do not want a pre-moon watch, but even, and I think this is a sure bet, when Omega puts the new 321 into a Speedy -Pro and wants 14K US for it, I will not be a buyer. For me personally there is no more value because of the re-issued movement. Of course this is just my two cents.

[@real_fjcalabrese]

Nice JLC. That would be a good subject for a video.

[@JohnPWatches]

It's a fun one.

[@PiersC]

Yes, but which model? Trying to learn here.

[@starman8551]

Well in 2019 it's 50 years anniversary of the first lunar landing. I'm quite sure there will be "limited" editions coming this year. Maybe with the "vintage" movement for better or worse...

[@JohnPWatches]

I am starting to cringe. If you miss a limited edition speedy, just wait 3 months and they release a new one 😂😂😂

[@SpilkersKompass]

There‘s the opportunity to get on the waiting list for the 50th anniversary since several months in the Omega Boutique in Zurich. Same for the Bond Seamaster Edition this year. So you can be sure that these editions will come.

[@Alexander-hk6mb]

Rumors are that the steel version of the 321 speedy will be about 10k.

[@tomlucas4269]

I will sent my 321 omega speedy to patek. Little more finished after servecing;)

[@bekomollla]

Good vid! As always nice topic!

[@pedrosaenz2800]

Prices might be going up. The Rolex price point are, so far, higher...

[@tods.9947]

It’s interesting with the 321. As much as I respect the Lemania movement heritage, Seiko invented the automatic, column wheel movement when they introduced the 6139 Speedtimer. There is no problem with the column wheel design even to this day. It’s not a weak part of the movement at all.

[@erne75]

What would make the "new" 321 so complex that the current service centers cannot handle it with training and spare parts inventory?

[@JohnPWatches]

They could but it would be bad logistically unless the 321 was at scale which it wont because it is expensive in all regards. Troubleshooting is complex I am told by watchmakers when there are problems.

[@valengreymoon5623]

It would probably work best in a new Speedy Reduced.

[@marcoasoto4419]

I will buy the new cal. 321 what ever it cost

[@kevincorkery6292]

Can you get Hans to speak about co-axial, silicon spring. I am thinking of buying an Aqua terra.

[@bubbab7792]

Good vid, good descriptive, kill the echo though. Background spice. Spend a little on good sound. 👍 😉

[@roamy3605]

What are you talking about? ,321,861, 1861, Give use something, WHAT THE HELL! Yes i have lots of

[@danielribeiro2113]

MR P we need to teach you how to make it rain that's not how u do it

[@JohnPWatches]

Please teach me mr wise one :) lol

[@danielribeiro2113]

Hold the stack in one hand and use other hand to flip each bill out . Think broken ATM lol. I'm only messing with ya man .

[@giorgiodelpalatinato6718]

I wear a Moonwatch since more than 20 years: The movement was never very accurate (...not even directly out of the OMEGA service) and sometimes the stop time hand won't move after pushing the button! Technically it's very outdated and the price of the watch is all about marketing and demand, at least not about technical value. But there is the design value too - and the design, the architecture of the movement is very beautiful, even more beautiful in the 321 column wheel version. The difference between the lever and the column mechanism, the related movements is small, so OMEGA should give the more beautiful version for free, i.e. without charging a surplus, to their customers. A bit of humility from OMEGA's side was nice to see having in mind that there is an equally beautiful Seagull St 1901 on the market that costs pennies... I just hope that this new 321 will technically be much better than the 861, with new materials, new technologies? Since I'm quite sure that they will try and charge the hell out of us poor customers :-) :-)

[@johnamg2133]

I would get one if it’s priced right and I think that should be under 3K USD but that will probably not happen:-(

[@tomlucas4269]

if I sent my Speedy to Omega for service it will cost me 1200 euro.

[@donning9948]

I'm just hoping it's NOT going to be super limited release and MSRP +9000.00. I really would love to get one for my collection.

[@JohnPWatches]

I bet it will be :(

[@JohnPWatches]

Omega wishes they were Rolex.

[@donning9948]

@@JohnPWatches Come on Happy Thoughts haha

[@stevenuk]

👏🏼 👍🏼

[@robin2thek]

I like long videos. Stay in topic.

[@pablowolf6453]

This movement is supposed to be handmade and one watchmaker, one watch. Omega can not use the 321 massively

[@JohnPWatches]

True. We call this managing expectations

[@pablowolf6453]

I’ll appreciate a lot if you could follow me on Instagram @watches_and_food_mx I’m just starting and need the help

[@android61242]

They should have never changed it to begin with. They should sell a moon speedmaster with the 321 and just always leave that as a model while also selling new watches with their coaxial movement. Maybe use the same case and put a brand new movement in there? Maybe make a reduced auto coaxial model again? They also need to fix all their designs. How do they go go from making the original seamaster 300 to what they have now? Omega's on average look disgusting and it is one of my favorite brands. Rolex on the other hand went the Porsche 911 route making incremental changes over the years refining their design. Rolex is a lot more successful than omega for good reason.

[@dominickcolasanto6582]

I'm not saying but the art may suppass the kimono

[@JohnPWatches]

Thanks :)

[@vincentong4852]

Omega is brokus phucktus. Their last card is out now, break or make now. If break, omega as a prestige brand but not so great in modern era, they can flush down to drain. Stormy days ahead. Never ever use the last card in any gambling.

[@cashau2965]

...I just can't understand the hype about the 321...the guys at hodinkee are probably responsible for all this...influencers...influencers...OMG

[@brucemiller8744]

Too much echo ! The echo spoils the entire presentation

[@tl4238]

No, a very short answer.

[@JohnPWatches]

?

[@real_fjcalabrese]

1st

[@JohnPWatches]

nice :)