On 30 Rock and the Erasure of Ironic Racism

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00:00:00 Thank You Incognito
02:17:23 Intro
05:21:11 Put Them Back Up
10:12:26 Ironic Racism
16:45:01 We Gotta Remember Our Past
24:50:03 Posing

[@WillieMuse2]

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[@helenengberts8266]

I want everyone to know that, in the spirit of this video on reflection, I typed out a whole thing about my opinion on something, realized that it was only mildly relevant if we’re being generous, and that if I saw someone else say it, I would think that they are misunderstanding the whole thing! We can move on from our middle-school selves

[@dstarchild2549]

My personal best case scenario for how 30 Rock would continue to exist in the current understanding of racism, would be to put a short statement at the beginning of each episode. Saying that the contents include racist comedy and that, while they were trying to further the conversation, this was unintentionally harmful. This would actually do something to further the conversation. The biggest circular conversation that I see with people, when calling out racism(and other issues like transphobia) is that they can't be being racist because they "didn't mean to be". Part of being anti racist, is the understanding that we are all a part of a racist society, and it is really easy to unconsciously do harm, so we need to be conscious about it.

[@AoifeBheag]

Willie, I'm completely blind; and your monologging in the postscripts about your various physical characteristics frequently cracks me up. Your comment in this vid about you looking as if you'd dipped your face in dust because you hadn't shaved gave me a good chuckle. Your comment in a previous vid about your chin resembling a chicken bone draped with layers of biscuit dough has, I fear, scarred my mental landscape for life. :-)

[@elisquier5380]

🤣🤣😭 gotta love creating new horrors in your mental landscape

[@subtlegong2817]

Chicken mop blue hose assembly loom vase from jump kilograms thesaurus super Mario yes. Is dog mayonnaise? Your reading program is not broken.

[@AoifeBheag]

If I could paste the "confused face" imoji here, I would. What's the joke?

[@toyourliking]

@@AoifeBheag I think that user is just being a dick.

[@floraposteschild4184]

If there's one thing I've learned, is that no matter who you are, there will be things you say, do and think that you will regret. And if you believe you are the exception, your children, grandchildren and/or the younger generation will point out the contrary. Vigorously. You'll look good with a moustache.

[@peepeepoopoomimimoomoo]

i definitely think that the industry would benefit from more diverse writers rooms- especially in comedy. A lot of issues in comedy television is the overall lack of diverse voices. But a lot of anti-pc comedians dont understand is how are you supposed to be making the world brighter w laughter when so many people arent laughing. And the doubling down that takes place to push back against criticism only results in even unfunnier jokes. And as a black woman, my biggest pet peeve had been that they go so far to defend their right to be edgy- and the jokes in question, arent even funny. A huge issue with comedy as an industry is that it’s white laughs that ultimately rule. even among popular non-white comedians, the jokes are bird’s eye views into their cultures, explaining to white audiences what it is. Like Tyler Perry and the madea franchise. Those movies arent for black viewers. Black viewers may laugh, but you can tell its not the intended audience. I will always reference the Boondocks, because THAT was comedy made by black people for black viewers. It discusses issues within the black community in a way that only their peers could fully appreciate bc they are members and participants of that culture. I lament its cancellation every day, bc it really valued black laughs- it was something that was truly FOR us. and thats the huge issue right? comedy doesn’t prioritize non-white laughs, esp. when they feel the need to double down and defend themselves against the pc-police; which is really just non-white audiences saying “it wasnt funny, your just perpetuating more harm.” on that note: Comedy is supposed to evolve. People arent going to think the same things are funny for a lifetime, or even in the span of 5 years. Youre supposed to adapt with the culture, bc what is the point of standing on stage and making jokes if everyone isn’t laughing? you can’t champion yourself as a bringer of joviality when u arent willing to adapt and improve when people say your bringing more harm than good to the table? anyway, great vid willie! always appreciate and love your content. you definitely feel like my laugh is just as important as any other lol

[@whimsickels]

I've never seen the Boondocks or the other things so this was really interesting to read. Racist humor just doesn't really get me. When people send me a racist meme and ask me if it's offensive, I kinda panic. Especially when I know I'm talking to a person of color. Like why did they send me that? Anyway, I had one happen where the dude sent me pics of someone wearing watermelon hats and asked me if it was offensive.... my thought process went "To some people yes, but I'm a white person so taking offense feels like claiming a problem that isn't mine... and I can't really explain why this is wrong because I don't get the joke." 😮‍💨 Now they just think bad of me. It's hard to know how to communicate sometimes. I just didn't want to claim to know more than they did about such a topic, or act like it was about my feelings. I just didn't know if it was more appropriate to say yes or no, given my status as a white person... I've been yelled at for calling things offensive that don't apply to me and I just tried taking that criticism. But it feels weird not to call out bad things too. 😵‍💫 Thank the beauty of time that I'm not my middle school self anymore.

[@HoneyBeeFlanzman]

My (cis-white) husband and I (a white-washed Latina) always say "You can say whatever you want - as long as it's funny." I'll follow up with "If you could say it to a group of the people you're joking about" because often people are able to laugh at themselves - especially minority groups about themselves. AS LONG AS IT'S ACTUALLY FUNNY!

[@HoneyBeeFlanzman]

@@whimsickels you must be young… I’ve never heard of someone getting yelled at for calling something out as racist because they were a different race. An important part of being an ally at least and anti-racist at best (and the best of us still need to work on being actively anti-racist) is calling things out. But really- a big aspect is asking tough questions. “Do YOU think it’s racist? I feel like it might be, but could use more context. Do you know more about the history of this idea and why it’s racist? I want to know more because I want to have a better understanding before I say anything because I’m white and don’t fully get it.” Show you care, are concerned and invested, and explain why you don’t feel like you can comment.

[@Rossiuspossius]

That comment at the end about people seeing your facial hair and then hearing your voice, and being like “I didn’t think he could grow facial hair” same, very same

[@unicornbacon]

LOL I was literally just thinking, "I bet Willie would look good with a mustache" and not 3 minutes later...

[@CoatfullofOwls]

Aka "handsome willie"/"jojoshading willie"

[@kas5564]

You should definitely turn on memberships. I'm on a creator on hiatus and can say I deeply understand how you feel you feel about financial support. It helped me to know that some people set aside money for the purpose of creators, and by opening up other methods you let people from multiple countries participate. It's always that person's choice, and some people experience a lot of comfort and good feelings from supporting creators. You aren't going to alienate your core base, I don't think. The better your own financial stability the easier it'll be for you to create meaningful and nuanced videos like this one. I think it does matter to add your perspective on this issue. ☆ You're doing a good job.

[@mountainhorse9419]

I know it's anxiety-inducing to talk about sensitive subjects, but I think you generally do a great job of being cautious and open and not being dogmatic about your beliefs. Great video as per usual!

[@unicornbacon]

Oh yeah, the "changing ADHD meds" energy is so relatable.

[@shaihulud2977]

I have also rewatched 30 rock many, many times

[@FidgetThePepperTheGhost]

While I think Tina Fey learned the lesson that "literal blackface is a bridge too far", ironic racism and ironic offensiveness is still very much her bread and butter in the productions that have followed since 30 Rock, probably for the reasons that you said. It's the idea that comedy is meant to push boundaries and explore taboos and hold a mirror up to society, etc, etc. But I can't help but wonder how much of that is from an inflated sense of self-importance instead and how much the conversations sparked by these jokes actually help the people involved.

[@isabellec9444]

Willie you're one of my favorite youtubers! You upload and im there! I love hearing what you have to say and your knitting is super cool. You and Knit-cholas are very silly. I hope we can see more of him (and you ofc) in the future. I hope you have a lovely day! ❤

[@caitlinroyal2723]

I’m a big fan of the “improving my life through content” series, I fully encourage you to do the mustache video idea.

[@trexep]

I had a similar experience on my last rewatch of Community. At one point I realized that the first D&D episode wasn't there and wondered why. Then I remembered Chang's drow costume that included black facepaint.

[@Blue-hy2nw]

I started out crocheting while I watched your videos, and now I'm knitting while I watch! ^-^

[@randomeditor]

your ad reads are so good willie

[@maxaslagolis]

I have a lot of the same general feelings about the 2 episodes of scrubs that got banned for blackface 1. Of them was entirely unnecessary and could have been accomplished in a much less shitty way (instead of putting JD in blackface, you could just have his voice come out of Turk for the dream sequence) 2. The other one literally a flashback to JD being an insensitive stupid white college kid who PROMPTLY got his ass beaten for doing blackface in the show for doing it. What sucks about scrubs is as a show, it has a lot of actual running plot lines, and by banning the episodes entirely you have actually removed sorta important parts of the narrative.

[@pinkyhc4130]

The spiderweb sweater is perfection. ❤ Edit: holy shit you're funny I'm cackling 😂

[@EdwardAsk-qm3wt]

Well food for thought, but if you grow a mustache, then by the transient properties of para social relationships and algebra, we will all have a mustache.

[@DarkChildXXVII]

I love you, Willie!!! Good video. While I've never seen a drop of 30 Rock, I still found this video interesting. Also, YES, PLEASE DO grow a moustache! It would be interesting... 😁😍

[@goldensloth7]

noooo no one should have a moustache! unless it's with a beard. or on Freddie Mercury. i joke i joke.

[@pal5683]

Hi Willie, I just wanted to let you know that I enjoy your channel very much. I have been struggling with my health and was just diagnosed with cancer, channels like yours that are both thoughtful and entertaining are something that definitely improves my quality of life.

[@OshaVids]

I love a good analogy. Willie is very good at coming up with good analogies.

[@jenncha1477]

AP Racism got me 🤣you're so great. never stop making videos, please

[@How_Many_Monkeys]

20 minutes in and I just realized your sweater is a magnet P.S. I think the beard scruff looks good on you

[@HoneyBeeFlanzman]

I thought it was a compass

[@CollinGerberding]

@@HoneyBeeFlanzman would have a E and a W if if it were a compass. Although, I think a compass or a magnet are equally plausible objects to style a sweater on, so not trying to be rude or anything.

[@HoneyBeeFlanzman]

@@CollinGerberding well, considering how long it has been since I’ve looked at either a compass or the big blue/red magnets I hesitate to take any kind of strong stand lol! I think I’ll trust you, kind internet stranger

[@theminorthirds]

“Anyway, that’s my video” (NARRATOR: But the video had a third of its runtime remaining.) That was a reasonable opinion. Other opinions are also reasonable. I guess another question is, how much should Tina Fey have a say in this? Do the episodes belong to the fans now? To history? Does whassertoes who actually appears in blackface get a vote? Etc., etc. Culture is complicated.

[@Emileigggggh]

It's kinda wild to me that Tina Fey removed the blackface but thought it was fine to keep the second? episode where Rachel Dratch plays a Latina maid on that boat and is totally wearing a darker shade of foundation than her natural skin color. Also the Fred Armisen point you mentioned. Or like, my millennial roommate and I were showing our younger trans friend the show and Tracey says something super transphobic in the first episode. 30 Rock could be so funny and smart, but it's important to note these issues with it as well. Anyway - nice comment here. be happy lol

[@lazylistmaker]

Thanks for remarking on the issues with tackling racism that only exist as a personal abstraction. A good later example is from a later Fey project, The Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, specifically "Kimmy Goes to a Play!". In this a Mexican American director films a script by a white writer (who was not Fey, for what it's worth) about Asian-American activists from a group with the acronym RAPE protest a one-man show by a black character on the grounds of cultural appropriation. This was not only incredibly transparent as a reaction to the negative reception of Dong, a Korean character, and casting Krakowski as a Lakota woman, but scraped against some really complicated racial dynamics I don't think anyone involved in the episode had any awareness of. Asian Americans have been leveraged against Black Americans for decades as a "model minority", and anti-black racism and colorism is unfortunately a problem in our community. Watching the show use these two ethnic groups as proxies for their issues with critics without knowing about the actual dynamics was . . . not great.

[@pines3086]

it's so interesting having a comfort show that is, you know, deeply problematic in a lot of ways. i love 30 rock, i've watched it many MANY times and some episodes make my skin crawl here in 2024. i think your observations are extremely astute and i really agree that the best way to learn is to not ignore something, it's to address it.

[@ThePisceanDragon]

Willie, turn on the membership. There is no harm in making yourself more receptive to connection and support. ❤

[@theastralbard8280]

long time watcher, first time commenter. your cozy videos always make my day

[@kennethmuhleman392]

Willie Muse; you are an absolute delight.

[@augustburnsbread]

It's hard losing episodes, I feel your pain as an It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia fan. A good companion to this video is an older video from T1J called Tina Fey's Racial Humor.

[@emisformaker]

Your experience with 30 Rock sounds similar to my experience with Mystery Science Theater 3000. Though they didn't do blackface on any of the episodes they're allowed to re-air, they do quite a few riffs that are... ungood. The 'pit of the stomach' feeling you describe is very familiar. And yet, I rewatch the show, because of the bits that aren't that.♥

[@HoneyBeeFlanzman]

I have been watching a lot of movies on TCM and rewatching 80s and 90s movies for comforting nostalgia and man... it can really go from 0 to 100 quick and it feels like a gut punch every time...

[@emisformaker]

@@HoneyBeeFlanzman Oh yeah.

[@noaccount2494]

recently rewatched All Dogs Go to Heaven and oh boy I forgot the very racist song the main dog sings in the opening scenes, or the weird tribal mice

[@xero2135]

I remember a comedian effectively calling out movies from a certain era of ‘edgy comedy’ through an online sketch satirising the experience of watching one of your favourite comedies from your youth only to realise over the course of watching that not only was it not as good as you remembered but it was actually really awful.

[@willythewyno]

As a white guy, my opinion on race is also irrelevant. Thanks for the representation

[@elvinfp]

The stubble looks really good, Willie!

[@ermdracula]

It's funny, I am smack dab in the middle of another 30 Rock watch-through, too. Your words about it being an old show hit me hard. I was in my late teens to early twenties as the show was airing and I feel like it was a weirdly big part of how I became an adult. Anyway, good video! I always look forward to a new Willie vid

[@katiefletcher4129]

I hope you’re having a good day! Appreciate hearing your thoughts, thanks for the video!

[@nesurame]

IDK what to say but engagement really helps channels so I'm commenting anyway. The topic was insightful, and put into words what I've felt about a lot of decades-old edgy 'humor'.

[@ruthspanos2532]

I admit to having enjoyed her show Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, in spite of even more problematic episodes with attempts at ironic racism…and some plain old insensitive jokes that aren’t even ironic. I almost wish all problematic media could have mandatory explanations before you get to watch it. Which sounds like a terrible idea to implement. Basically we need more diversity…and creators who follow the code of not about us without us. So my opinions about racism are irrelevant for the most part, except to amplify the voices of people who know more than I do.

[@garrettrasmussen6894]

Thanks for video, Willie! I always appreciate your thoughtful analysis.

[@distortedcobalt]

mentioning vivance reminded me to take my meds thank you

[@magnetic_eye]

I kinda bounced on all Tina Fey stuff after a similar thing: the Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt episode on cultural appropriation of Asian things. The episode's conclusion is that Asians protesting Titus for cultural appropriation (he was holding a Japanese one-man show where he's dressed as a geisha in a vaguely yellow-face-ish way and recounting memories of being Japanese) are wrong to be offended, because Titus sings Japanese songs really well and thus he might actually be a reincarnated Japanese geisha. It felt like an insulting way to try and both-sides a pretty obviously racist thing mostly done by ignorant white people for music videos and frat Halloween parties (which makes giving the storyline to Titus a bit suspect at best), and Fey's shows have had so few Asians on main cast (or at all) in the first place. She only has character Dong Nguyen on Kimmy Schmidt, who's played by a Korean American actor putting on a bad Vietnamese accent whose Asian name, accent, immigrant background, etc are all played mostly for emasculating laughs with buck-tooth, zero-rizz anti-Asian stereotypes straight from Vietnam War and even World War II-era racism. To bring extra Asians who manage to not be ancient racist stereotypes on *only* to have them act as strawmen to defend cultural appropriation felt even more messed up.

[@faithgaudi6191]

This is gonna be a good one.

[@raspyraccoon6530]

😂 the throwing of the knitting was hilarious, especially if it was unintentional,

[@vapiddreamscape]

loved this one! i find your discussions about comedy among my faves of your videos

[@eyeofthebeholder_]

Dude, do not even get me started on Advanced D&D. I just realized... That makes two sitcoms Donald Glover has been a part of that have had episodes taken down bc of blackface.

[@tommycouncill4672]

As Tommy C, the opening of this video made my blood run cold

[@filmfreak42]

Really love the way you break down serious topics!

[@BunnyTsukino1999]

"It's not that old, I watched it when I was 14" Eleven years ago... when it had already finished!?

[@winrycarver7701]

I'm glad that you've added your thoughts about those subject, and I really hope that it helps to further discussion of it. Also, I like your polarizing content sweater. I think that it is one of my favoruites .

[@garrettbuell3172]

Always sunny has done similar for similar reasons. That case is a little interesting since the show is still running and they are acknowledging that they’ve learned since

[@AnxiousGary]

wtf there's 16 seasons of Always Sunny? I feel like I've only seen the first season or two I thought it ended at least ten years ago

[@JustJen1386]

Excellent take

[@joyofcookies]

Glad you posted this! I love 30 Rock and I love you!

[@sophiemyers1035]

I really miss Christmas Attack Zone, it was one of my favorite episodes. I get why it was taken down, but there are a lot of other problematic things in 30 rock that were never removed. For example when Liz Lemon says "There's no such thing as bisexual, that's just something they invented in the '90s to sell hair products." As a proud bi person, I deeply hate that this is said in my favorite show but having that episode taken down wouldn't help anything, and I'd miss watching it.

[@niki714niki]

Thank you for bringing this up!

[@JazzRaksha]

Never heard of 30 rock, but the point still stands. Good job Willie.

[@OzerYou]

Thanks for another interesting video!!

[@teresalawrence2673]

Awesome video. So cool to watch your channel continue to grow

[@rainbowpascal]

Uhhh if you ever need a quick review... might i suggest the little mermaid (1992) 😋 its like 48 mins long... i had the dvd as a kid & i recently found it here on youtube. I think it would be great hearing what you have to say about it lol

[@ChaoticWriterRising]

I took a break from spiraling to watch this video. Good distraction. 👍

[@CaptHoborg]

i'm not even mad about the ad read opening

[@misteraskman3668]

I really like your videos Willie.

[@Ironpanda]

I too love the show and I enjoyed listening to your perspective.

[@karmb1437]

Willie if you need a really bad movie to review that no one has reviewed on you tube before please look for the Maikol Yordan movies. They were the first thing that made me understand how bad I felt about famous/rich people making fun of poor people. The main character reminded me so much of the people from where my family is from but if all of their traits were taken to the most extremely offensive parody. But apart from that, production is not that good, comedy is bad and acting goes from like Christian church play to some of the best theater actors of the country.

[@paullynds2799]

I think your video was very insightful.

[@NovastarX]

I WAS actually really wondering about this when I saw the missing episodes way back when. 😐

[@CadyAnBlack]

Ooooh! Keep content up but with written/spoken statements of understanding and apology by the artists themselves? Much better at starting conversation than the memory hole.

[@cherissataylor1856]

Love the video Willie. Comment for the algorithm. ❤

[@freyabee819]

Good video on a show that I also love

[@Samba-vm2qf]

I use these videos to teach my students what to watch out for an cray cray (while knitting)

[@Gingrninja123]

First I want to thank you for giving us a space to discuss. Overall I agree with your main point; however I disagree that they should be put back up. The 30 rock episode’s content itself perpetuates racial stereotypes. Although it may have been intended to be ironic as a commentary on itself not everyone will take it as such, even with education. It’s always sunny in Philadelphia tackles this rhetoric in a much better in S12 ep 1 the gang turns black.

[@matthewc6752]

this guy can grow a beard?

[@lesaubergines]

All I know is I’m glad I own every season of 30 Rock on DVD.

[@jeano5325]

Your videos are my favorite

[@TheGoblinMogra]

30 Rock is my comfort show and I think this is a very fair criticism. There are jokes that didn't age well. Do I still love the show? Yeah. But part of that for me has to be accepting its faults.

[@UncaHyla]

Yes, absolutely do it: grow the mustache. One of those little skinny Maitre'd ones, if at all possible.

[@noaccount2494]

Glad you got your meds! I think the facial scruff is fine. If you want a mustache go for it. I think you did describe the white moderate opinion and how easy it is to cringe at the old material. I do not think they should bring the episodes back, but perhaps they have have something that addresses it did exist and why they removed it. I'm not of the demographic so my opinion on that isn't really the benchmark.

[@noaccount2494]

Also I'll never send money via youtube but I do via patreon. I just like supporting you

[@GreenVenus]

Aw man too early!!

[@MRsGamura]

I like your creativity.

[@taipolar333]

WIllie with a beard would be pretty snaddy. like a silver fox cub

[@DracoSelf-important]

I think it's important for white people to publicly acknowledge racism as a real problem. If only non-white people ever discuss racism they have all the emotional labor, and that seems unreasonable to me.

[@musakh8erable]

Setting notification

[@HoneyBeeFlanzman]

I 💚💚💚 dusty-faced Willie!!

[@5_fdlol]

Those pangs are so real.

[@willowdear]

Never seen 30 rock but i like the analysis. Also like the constant waffling for like 5 minutes about posting it.

[@jsmith9977]

I would love to hear your commentary on Veep.

[@paloma1348]

Are there any continental knitters?????

[@TheMrsarahanne90]

You should have a mustache for the feet video. Also, I love you too .

[@thetyrantx5782]

The facial hair looks good, lookin like a noir detective

[@honeybelle1203]

BUT WAIT .... WHAT DOES GLENN CLOSE HAVE AGAINST PATTI LUPONE!? How dare!

[@Over_cooked_egg_noodle]

Making dinner well watching 💪💪💪💪

[@JulesBiscuits]

Absolutely grow a mustache! If possible I also think you'd rock a walking cape.

[@JakAttack12345]

I rate this video 29 Rocks out of 30

[@ZackC]

My issue is less with pulling the episodes with blackface jokes, and more with the fact that Fey is apparently happy to stand by the plenty of other shitty racist jokes.

[@renfish]

Have you been enjoying the new seasons of the Simpsons? I've found the most recent two pretty good

[@dawnthegoblin]

Honestly i didn't realize you had facial hair or "dust on your face" 😅 Also! I wouldn't do memberships, better to do something like shopify merch messages where they buy your merch and get a shout-out instead of letting google take any more of your money than it already does from ads and copyright issues

[@synical13]

Censorship is wrong and you don't learn from mistakes by covering them up and pretending they didn't happen, how else will future generations know that we've improved? If you're going to delve into history then be prepared to find things you don't like, so don't do it if you can't handle it. We figured this out a long time ago, just add disclaimers. When I discovered how much i grew up with had been censored, I wasn't appreciative, I was angry and started wondering how many other pleasant lies I had been fed under the idea of "for the greater good". I want truth and reality, warts and all and I have a hard time respecting anyone who's willing to sacrifice that to spare people's feelings.

[@Spyderinagourd]

I had better be seein a video on milf manor after the tease with the lore of the sweater. Still appreciate the lens you have on the white lens on brown/black face. (Don't mean this as threatenin or tryin to corner the creator)