On LCS being crap and Constellation being US Navy's answer to China

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Why is LCS, ship that promised a lot, is getting prematurely retired?
And what future Constallation class frigate brings. This video will explain it.
It will Compare the two ship types and showcase Constellation’s capabilities.
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[@yeasashikder3704]

I Love USA 🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲

[@yeasashikder3704]

🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

[@yeasashikder3704]

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[@TheRezro]

The idea behind LCS was good. Cheap modular ship for coastal operations, separate from needs to the deep water navy. But like usual execution failed. Costs overruns and technical problems lead to simple question: If something is as large as Frigate, cost as much as Frigate, but can do less then a Frigate. Why not buy a Frigate?

[@TK199999]

Its also expected that Constellation class ships will eventually be upgraded to have DE defense systems.

[@Yaivenov]

LCS: The armament of a corvette, the size of a frigate, the cost of a destroyer, and the staying power of a politician's promise.

[@lolasdm6959]

Oh yes designing ships for gun bombardments like it's the 1800s is just what a modern navy needs!!!

[@johnpjones1775]

cost of a destroyer...they run about $500m, that's less than 25% the cost of a FIII burke...which is sitting at approx $2.4b nice try though. also most modern FFGs (ya know those designed in the last 10-15 years) are much bigger. just look at the FREMMs as a perfect example roughly 6-7k tons upcoming constellations over 7k tons even the british duke class FFGs designed in the 80s are 5k tons china's type 054 FFG design is pushing 30 years old and still roughly 1k tons larger than the indys and 400tons larger than the freedoms sure there are a few examples of FFGs in the size range of the LCSes but they're mostly in 2nd and 3rd rate navies that simply don't have many if any large surface combatants at all.

[@KungFuWizardOfJesus]

@@johnpjones1775nd the Chinese Type 055. A superior counter to the ancient Arleigh Burke. Point is the US is trying to catch up to that destroyer which is evident where the next US destroyer is practically a copy and paste of the Type 055

[@johnsilver9338]

@@KungFuWizardOfJesus Only superior in terms of number of VLS tubes. But in terms of sensors specifically its radar and BMD capability Burke is definitely better. For instance, SPY-6 with 24 RMAs for Burke Flight IIA has a max range around 4600km comparable to THAAD’s TPY-2 radar’s 4700km max detection range. SPY-6 with 37 RMAs on Burke Flight III will even be more powerful. DDG(x) on the other hand with 57 RMAs if not 37 would be insanely powerful. Then their is also SPY-7.

[@KungFuWizardOfJesus]

@@johnsilver9338 the DDGx is a copy and paste of the Type 055.

[@gelinrefira]

Using the LCS for mine warfare is not about having a better capability mine warfare ship, it is using a screwed up design for a lesser role than intended to salvage a shitty situation.

[@hooks4638]

Absolutely. However, both things are true. They are most definitely salvaging a really bad situation but, they will be a more capable mine warfare ship than the ships traditionally use in that role.

[@logicplague]

"The more they overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain." - Montgomery Scott, Chief Engineer USS Enterprise

[@francescoboselli6033]

As an Italian I'm proud to see an Italian design having such a success

[@shadownor]

Italian lines and American munitions, match made in heaven.

[@arvypolanco]

@@shadownor Like a ferrari with a javelin mounted on top! I love democracy....

[@shadownor]

@@arvypolanco Poetry!

[@SpruceWood-NEG]

In World War II, except for paratroopers, only the Italian navy was normal.

[@elijah_9392]

@@SpruceWood-NEG England sank half of the Italian Navy in a day lol.

[@MadSpectro7]

After hearing about the design philosophy of the LCS, I'm pretty sure that whoever envisioned the concept expected LCSs to be used against Iran and the real reason the Navy is abandoning it is because China is finally considered a bigger threat.

[@dmrr7739]

I think you’re right. The ships seem like they were designed for the Persian Gulf. The story that the ships’ transmissions ‘just can’t be fixed’ sounds questionable.

[@MadSpectro7]

@@dmrr7739 Oh make no mistake, when someone says that a product "just can't be fixed," what they're really saying is "We've reevaluated our cost-benefit analysis of this product and have decided it's no longer worth the money."

[@vlhc4642]

Fighthing Iran in the 2020s is actually a more realistic assumption than Constellation assuming they'd be fighting 2010s China in 2030.

[@dauzlee2827]

I think the US might deploy their remaining LCS in Persian gulf

[@zachjordan7608]

@@dmrr7739 to be fair, engine issues in ships are often really hard. fixing anything post design may requires increasing the size of the hull around the engine, increasing displacement, and fucking everything else up. I'm partial to believe procurement has grown so bad a mistake of this nature was made

[@pahtar7189]

When the Navy tested the two LCS designs, one was noticeably better at two roles and the other was noticeably better at two other roles. So of course they bought both and required that they each do all four missions rather than the two they were good at.

[@shawnmiller4781]

That was Obama trying to appeal to the most voters he could by giving both shipyards jobs. Crappy procurement to support a non-military politics

[@grygaming5519]

The LCS was sold as a over-glorified Patrol Boat to a blue water navy. It was a ship built for a war that never existed. It was if anything a very expensive test bed for other programs that can be implemented elsewhere. Oddly the LCS and Zuwalt program brings up a now favorite quote of mine. "Sometimes its better to build what you want, instead of what the customer demanded." The LCS and Zuwalt ships are more or less warships built by Admirals whom sat at desks for far too long and with little to no practical experience out at sea. They are thinking far too ahead or in some cases...being heavily paid off by lobbyists who just want a blank check. The Connie looks to be a ship made for practical blue water warfare. However I would argue overall this purchase of a new warship overshadows the real issues with the US Naval forces. That is the lack of funding for overhauling and reactivating its repair and refit docks. In a fleet of 428 boats, we only have enough dock space to refit, reload and rotate a quarter of that fleet. There's a long list of ships that need refits, repairs and just general maintenance. The Navy's penchant for buying shiny new toys is what's going to hurt its overall combat power. Its as if they forgot the lessons that won them WWII. The US Navy won the war because it was able to outbuild, outrepair and had superior damage control procedures. The only lesson that seems to have survive after the war is US Navy's Damage control....but then again after 5 Ship Fires and the loss of Bon Homme Richard even then I'm suspecting issues are slowly creping up on that front as well.

[@oldkid8811]

ya idiot politicians will kill us all

[@Joel-ew1zm]

Been excited since I first heard of this program a couple years ago. A BADLY needed return to sanity for the Navy. I just hope it isn't too late. This program should have been initiated 20 years ago to replace OHP instead of the wild goose chase LCS program

[@edkrach8891]

The Freedom class should be converted to mine counter-measure and mine laying ships. That would fill a large capability gap in the USN. Sell the Independence class and use the money to buy more Constellation class frigates.

[@nancykoernke1514]

The LCS units should be transfered to the coast guard. Their lowest configuration would work as a coastal patrol/defense and be on hand as active auxiliary. Short range service and perfect gulf of Mexico upgrade in defense.

[@ProfessorKlamp]

The Coast Guard doesn't want them. They know how crap they are.

[@7ElevenTruther]

Lol what did the Coast Guard ever do to you to make you suggest they be forced to operate the LCS with their extremely tiny budget? Did you have a shithead ex who was a coastie or something? 😂

[@davidradich9342]

Oliver Hazard Perry class veteran here. It was a good platform, prematurely cut for the LCS. I think it was a mistake.

[@ewetho]

NO thinking necessary, It was a HUGE mistake…. Should have made a new block upgrade of the OHP class..

[@Random_Canadian00001]

No one remembers or cares that the LCS was designed around the cancelled NLOS missile and after the missile was cancelled they were redesigned to replace the Avenger class Minesweepers. The first 10 ships are also test and design platforms with the first 4 being prototypes.(3 retired). The first 10 are part of the FORD, Burke FLIGHT III & Future Frigate development programmes along with US Navy cooperative engagement capability and Rotary wing autonomous command & strike... And the weapons development programmes for the very light, light and heavy torpedoes. People don't understand that without the LCS ships ... The US Navy would have come to a complete halt. No new torpedoes, No new 3rd party/remote targeting, No SPY 6 Radar software, No SEWIP 2, 2+ or 3 Electronic warfare systems, No MQ-8B or C Firescout UAV's No remote deck installation of Naval Stroke Missile packs to deck using open software solutions, No Swarm targeting using Sea rated Hellfire missiles, No refresh of the AH-1 using new the new Hellfires developed for the LCS, No New Hellfires on the MH-60S & R No new open arc. Sidescan radars for submarine and Mine warfare ... This list hasn't even touched on the Constellation class development. People have no fucking clue about the LCS and how it was the FOUNDATION OF THE ENTIRE NAVY ... And still is. Quirks with the SPY-6 are still being run out and verified on an LCS now, even with FORD sailing (you can't just shutdown and fuck with its radar while it's launching planes and sailing with other ships)

[@Caseytify]

LCS == Little Crappy Ship. Informed individuals accurately predicted the LCS would never work. Most of them advocated a less "revolutionary design", like the FRAM. P.S. Loved the frog!

[@williampaz2092]

The LCS was SUPPOSED to operate in Littoral Waters. It was SUPPOSED to be used as a Blockade/ Quick Strike & Raid vessel. Deployed in packs of four and backed by a Perry Class Frigate they would have been the Perfect Blockading Squadron. But by the time the LCS were built we had NO Frigates left, so some genius tried to have the LCS’s do both roles……

[@SaneGuySports]

Excellent and objective reporting with very good visuals. You can tell how hard the narrator has worked on his English; the production is outstanding!

[@TK199999]

LCS class ships was the US Navy overlearning lessons from the War on Terror. Thinking the days of peer or near peer naval warfare were gone. That has changed and so limitations of ship meant to fight low intensity conflicts against low tech, low resource terrorist's or commercial insurgences not economically viable current environment. In order words the US Navy wanted money for fighting terrorist's, as the US Army was getting all the funds during the Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. So they came up with counter terrorist's ship to fight terrorist's in rivers or coastal areas. The idea was doomed from the start and is thankfully being abandoned before any more money is wasted. In the future, its expected the US Navy will either return to building light cruisers, destroyer escorts and other lighter blue water combat ships. Or start upgrade programs for older ships in mothballs that would fill the role perfectly if just given upgraded technology. I suspect both will happen so the US Navy can inflate ship numbers and keep the media happy. But this is classic 80's Cold War style arms build up, when old battleships were brought out of retirement and had cruise missile launchers attached to them.

[@shaun469]

And that's why the us is crap

[@Legion617]

@@shaun469 The Sub fleet demands Chinese blood.

[@rohanthandi4903]

the days of peer or near peer naval surface warfare are gone. In the next war hulls will be targets. Its all gonna be airpower and subs

[@panpiper]

I just wish they'd have gone for a 48 cell VLS system. The hull stretch would have been minimal, the cost similarly small, but it would seriously expand the ship's capacity.

[@The_Lone_Aesir]

perhaps, but how much of a delay in development are we willing to accept? IMO if they already have a solid design they should focus on finishing that first and then they can work on tweaks and variants. Congress is like that customer that constantly wants to add and change things midway through a project and then gets irate about why its taking a lot longer and costing more than the initial quote.

[@stupidburp]

Combined with the box launchers they have a lot of missiles. Far more than previous US frigates.

[@rgloria40]

More missiles and a laser system which they did not specific mentioned....

[@panpiper]

@@rgloria40 A laser system would require a MUCH more robust engine system likely including a turbine to generate sufficient power. Very likely it would turn into a hybrid propulsion system to capitalize on the expensive batteries. It would be a completely different, and much more costly ship. I would have loved to see a CWIS gun above the bridge though.

[@panpiper]

@@The_Lone_Aesir Doing it now while they are still laying steel would be almost trivial compared to doing it later. Retrofitting them later will be VASTLY more expensive.

[@razrose2380]

The Constellation class has been vastly changed from the FREMM ships leading to delays and cost increases. It has a completely new propulsion system, never used by the USN before and with no shore testing facility to iron out any bugs. The enormous time it will take to build them means the Chinese will probably have produced about 4 times the number by the time the last one is commissioned..

[@EvaExplores-x2x]

Which means sailing a frigate into western pacific is suicide. The U.S. navy at this point is just desperate to fill in the numbers gap. This ship is not even that survivable in a chinese confrontation

[@20chocsaday]

Was the Nautilus power plant land tested?

[@lynnjensen150]

The contract for Constellations point blank requires that the power plant be land tested first. The ship yard is dropping the ball in many ways right now on this ship.

[@Cris-xy2gi]

The Littoral combat ships are utter garbage capability wise, and a complete procurement disaster. Glad to see them go.

[@VanBurenOfficial]

They look so cool tho

[@drk5orp-655]

​@@VanBurenOfficialI see them and they look like a platform to invade any island.

[@bennysoper1517]

Maybe they could cancel the A-10 while it's at it.

[@dave_riots]

The LCS ships would've been right at home in the coast guard.

[@randbarrett8706]

Weren’t they supposed to be a response to the actual missions the US navy has been tasked with recently? i.e. shooting up pirates

[@TheAmbex]

Canada's next frigate will use the Mk41. ESSM, SM2, Tomahawk, and Naval Strike Missile all work. Bigger frigates are quite potent.

[@blackfrost300]

The Type-26 is basically a destroyer. The Canadian Type-26's will sit at around 8,800 tons but can be pushed up to 10,000 tons and 500ft long, like that's a big frigate lol

[@grumpynerd]

When George W Bush came into office, the Navy operated about 570 ships, but with post cold war cutbacks that was slated to drop to 300 over the next decade. Bush promised in his campaign to retore the size of the US Navy to a full 600 ships, but he also promised to cut taxes and reduce the deficit. The LCS was the answer to two political needs: to build a lot of cheap ships to inflate the Navy's number of hulls without breaking the budget; and to find a role for the US Navy as the American defense establishment shifted from superpower confrontations to the Global War on Terror. Since this was being driven by politics, that raised the question: what are these things supposed to do? The answer was the politically simplest: they'd be able to do everything and anything needed to secure coastal areas and project US power far onto land -- where the bad guys lived. To be fair the idea of modular mission loadouts was not an obviously bad one at the time; the Navy does all kind of amazingly complicated things, it's all in a day's work. But it turns out asking a crew of less than a hundred with limited space to be that flexible was too much. Of all the problems these ships had, running them was the biggest; they were just too small and complicated. Now take everything about how the LCS program was conceived and run and do the opposite, and you've got the Constellation frigate program. It is building ships to address an identified probelm and to perform a traditional role for the US Navy. These "frigates" are very generously sized, larger than most current operational classes of destroyers, with plenty of room to add new systems and increase crew. And they're being built entirely with proven technologies.

[@Mahbu]

Long story short, we got complacent and assumed globalism and the spread of democracy would make the world so safe we wouldn't need the big ships. The only concern was terrorists, organized crime, and. . like. . two rogue nations that were barely worth the attention of a single carrier group. Unfortunately things can change. . they do change. Obviously, they did change. We keep forgetting we need to prepare for the NEXT conflict.

[@lolasdm6959]

@@Mahbu What do you mean assumed globalism? More like assumed domination of globalism.

[@Mahbu]

@@lolasdm6959 Sure, to some extent. But ignoring that cynicism for a moment, most everyone believed the world was too interconnected for any major power (like Russia or China. . or even the US) would do anything bananas like starting a major near peer war. It was believed the threat to international economies would be too daunting. But the mistake made is that we all assumed we all value the same or similar things. Not everyone cares about the economy. Not everyone cares about global image. Sometimes they just wanna feed their own egos. Or right some perceived wrong.

[@gups4963]

@@Mahbu U.S. peace time procurement has always been a shit show

[@Mahbu]

@@gups4963 Unfortunately. The show Future Weapons basically shows that.

[@Mittens_Gaming]

Same shipyard that kept fucking up the Freedom LCS is building the Constellation Class....so if you expect it to not also have issues, you might be disappointed.

[@Real_Claudy_Focan]

Constellation ; for the price of 7 Bergamini/FREMM frigates, USN got ... merely a keel ! GREAT SUCCESS !

[@glennjohnston2267]

This was very informative. Your content keeps going up in quality. Keep it up!

[@rvail136]

GIVE all the unwanted vessels to the Phillipines. They can use them in ASW and surface warfare hulls. Being free, and stripped down to their basic mission they could be quite useful for the Phips.

[@rohanthandi4903]

you cant just give them a bunch of ships and expect their 5K man navy to be able to operate them bruv

[@Priinsu]

15:46 I've been in the navy for 9 years now and I've served on an LCS for a short time (TAD) and two DDG's. Hearing the crew size of the new FFG's being 160 gives me some serious anxiety. We're already stretched really thin on DDG's as it is. DDG life is nothing to play with. It's HARD! DDG life already demands that each sailor wear many hats, and be everything to everyone, all of the time. We're already over-worked and undermanned as it is. It's sounding like the work-life balance on these FFG's will be almost non-existent and the OP-Tempo will go from crazy to down right absurd. What the Navy and these shipbuilders need to realize is we're human, we're not demi-gods. Yes, military service is not supposed to be "easy" but it doesn't have to be absurd either.

[@aurorauplinks]

could you tell me what the unclassified chores are for life on a naval ship? why is it that so many people are required? I would love to understand just why so much manpower is required for what amounts to (as i view it) a couple big guns, missile launchers, a bridge, and a engine room, (plus kitchen and bunks and showers toilets)?

[@Idahoguy10157]

@@aurorauplinks… spent time in the navy on sea duty. Four years. It’s not a forty hour week. More like eighty unless the ship is in a stand down. Don’t pretend you know better than the men who’ve served on ships. For comparison I did the rest of my career with the air force. A hard week was sixty hours. Plus after work I normally went home. When I was deployed living accommodations was better than on ship.

[@aurorauplinks]

@@Idahoguy10157 dear idahoguy. if you actually read my sentences, it was a series of questions. At no point did I claim to know any of it. I simply stated it seems like the focus of the ship maintenance should not require that many people actively working. I did not say, that I know it doesn't need that many people, nor did I claim I don't think it needs that many people. I asked... WHY... why it requires that many people. I do appreciate the answers you did give though. But... I was literally asking for information. not declaring things were one way or another.. and thank you for helping protect the country.

[@rgloria40]

So what is new in the US NAVY.....

[@cisco5400]

Great info. I was thinking of air defence, more ships switch from gatlin guns as air defence to 40mm or 57mm Bofors or similar. 57mm can shoot 4 rounds per seconds where each round create 400 m2 wall made of 2400 titanium pellets when in airburst of course. Thats at 7600m or something like that. Not sure if the 57mm here is Bofors but i guess this is the same. Thx

[@Marcellogo]

Man, the 57m is intended as the main gun not the CIWS system... Note that the ships from which the Constellation are derived (actually being less capable of them): the Italian version of the FrEEM spot a 127mm as main gun and a 76mm cannon as a Ciws system.

[@WTH1812]

Contractor: We have a innovative untested ship design. Congress: Will it work? Contractor: Hell no. DoD: We have to have 32. Contractor: We can build 32 in 5 years then upgrade them after sea trials. Congress: We need 96 in 4 different modular designs. DoD: Perfect. Sign the contract.

[@ncleasure94]

The freedom class might find a home in the coast guard as a cutter. At least someone will get some use out of it.

[@namyun2743]

That idea was floated before the pandemic and the Coast Guard refused. They don't want the Navy's hand-me-down headaches. They're getting their own custom-designed cutters

[@johnstevens6865]

Phenomenal detail! I learn so much from your videos!!

[@Jollyman2117]

Was proud to work under Admirals Hill. Small and Okano at IWS. I remember working on the Constellation class back when it was the FFGX program. Hang tight, more good Navy news coming in the next 2 years

[@granatmof]

Yeah but if the announcements of new ships not reach full deployment until 2035, it will not be enough if a deterrent for China to invade Taiwan by 2030. And this is the issue: China's been worked for 20 years in a plan to take over Taiwan. They've had some setbacks, but generally they won't reach combat strength until at earliest 2027 (it's been a while since I've lined up dates so I could be off). Even if their missile command corruption issues deadly then 5 years, it still leaves a 3 year gap of the US Navy is targeting 2035. And the US has plenty of setbacks, especially if Republicans are in charge of any part of government.

[@namyun2743]

@@granatmof The fight with China, if it happens, will be with our old platforms and new weapons systems. Because new weapons systems are much cheaper to develop and make compared to new platforms. Look at what we have developed over the past decade: LRASM, NSM, Rapid Dragon, Quick Sink, etc. There's probably quite a few items I missed out on. The platforms we have developed: F-35, B-21 and Constellation. Only the F-35 will make it in time to make any significant contributions in a war with China. US Navy surface combatants have a less significant role in deterrence and combat than the carriers, subs and the Air Force. The Chinese narrative of "we have more ships than the US" doesn't work out once the missiles start flying.

[@Shloomy_Shloms]

What a failure of procurement in the last couple decades. Zumwalt, Independence, and freedom. I hope the constellation can finally be something good.

[@desserted5446]

Not to mention FCS.

[@Random_Canadian00001]

No one remembers or cares that the LCS was designed around the cancelled NLOS missile and after the missile was cancelled they were redesigned to replace the Avenger class Minesweepers. The first 10 ships are also test and design platforms with the first 4 being prototypes.(3 retired). The first 10 are part of the FORD, Burke FLIGHT III & Future Frigate development programmes along with US Navy cooperative engagement capability and Rotary wing autonomous command & strike... And the weapons development programmes for the very light, light and heavy torpedoes. People don't understand that without the LCS ships ... The US Navy would have come to a complete halt. No new torpedoes, No new 3rd party/remote targeting, No SPY 6 Radar software, No SEWIP 2, 2+ or 3 Electronic warfare systems, No MQ-8B or C Firescout UAV's No remote deck installation of Naval Stroke Missile packs to deck using open software solutions, No Swarm targeting using Sea rated Hellfire missiles, No refresh of the AH-1 using new the new Hellfires developed for the LCS, No New Hellfires on the MH-60S & R No new open arc. Sidescan radars for submarine and Mine warfare ... This list hasn't even touched on the Constellation class development. People have no fucking clue about the LCS and how it was the FOUNDATION OF THE ENTIRE NAVY ... And still is. Quirks with the SPY-6 are still being run out and verified on an LCS now, even with FORD sailing (you can't just shutdown and fuck with its radar while it's launching planes and sailing with other ships)

[@bradleywoods1999]

Who ever allowed this program to move forward into full mass production needs to be held accountable. How you could allow a program to move ahead with so many issues is insane and I can't understand. These ships are so expensive and are basically no threat to other warships. They cost far more than frigates and destroyers of european nation's, it's honestly a joke.

[@wjhung2]

Good video. Informative. Keep up the good work.

[@stug77]

I was not, in fact, wondering why the LCS is getting sidelined. I thought that was clear to anybody who had heard anything about the LCS ever. But yes, I would like to hear about the constellation class. :P

[@valianttmt8044]

I’ve been watching your videos and your knowledge of the military never ceases to amaze me. Thank you for this particular video as I really didn’t have much information on the Constellation class frigates.

[@papatango2362]

FINALLY, AN ACTUAL UPGRADE IN CAPABILITY

[@mrp8488]

I wonder what happened to the procurement officer(s) who approved the LCS, sadly they were probably promoted, or are lobbyists. Also the Independence-class ships were having problems with hull cracking. The aluminum structure was too weak to handle the stresses imposed on them.

[@leojohn1615]

to be fair it does kinda seem that its not so much the procurement officers fault as it was politicians for approving both competitors for the LCS program rather than 1 and also the force structure analysts who said we would need that kind of ship in the first place when we dont.

[@dwwolf4636]

Nahh they're still effing up the Constellation class. The Gravy train is all that matters.

[@Followme556]

Keep in mind some of the VLS cells of the Constellation will be used by ASROC VLS. Probably as many as 10, given that this is an ASW ship. That would still leave a lot of tube left for quad packed ESSM though. Quad packed ESSM at mach 4+ 30nm range absolutely blows away the 20nm range SM1 single launcher of the Perry class frigates, which had a 40rd magazine.

[@paulmasters1181]

LCS was a fine concept, we were just too incompetent to execute literally any of the mission modules, pick a single hull design or any other basic management function. On the other hand, the FREMM has been the best pound-for-pound warship in the world (IMO) for a while. It was a good choice to for us to bag the LCS and just pick something that works rather than screw something else up.

[@DuskFox14th]

Any good videos on FREMM?

[@rgloria40]

Constellation needs to carry more attack missiles....I notice no provisions for laser weapon, softkill weapons and etc...

[@paulmasters1181]

There's a few on youtube that are pretty good but I haven't seen anything I'd 5-star recommend, most of my FREMM experience is from 'the wild' so to speak via Navy service. If you haven't already figured this out, the Wikipedia articles on military assets generally are about as good as you can get for public information. Do some poking around for the AAW and ASW variants of the FREMM. IMO, the ASW variant is where FREMM makes its money. Our Constellation class will differ significantly from the AAW variant due to using our (much more capable) radar and combat information suites. @@DuskFox14th

[@paulmasters1181]

ASCMs are pretty a la carte and can be bolted on to pretty much anything, softkill stuff as well. I think practicable laser defense systems are still pretty far away, I think the instantaneous power requirements for such systems (and railguns) have proved impracticable thus far for conventionally powered ships. I think you'd have to strap a metric butt-ton of modern batteries to them. @@rgloria40

[@Caseytify]

@@rgloria40 ... And just who is paying for all these fantasies?

[@richardmeo2503]

As always a solid show and info. Navy would be stupid to retire those LCS hulls with war possible. Though they may not be "the best ship", any ship will be needed. They could use them for coastal patrol around Guam, Hawaii, Gulf Coast etc. And Navy should be looking at their mothball fleet and figuring out how to get them into service. Once the SHTF, the modern weapons that China has will decide the outcome within weeks.

[@cliffordnelson8454]

Constellation class is about the same displacement as 3 pre-WW2 ships, and about the same size as most destroyers. And as far as modularity, I believe that has been tried before and failed before

[@grahamstrouse1165]

Denmark worked it out but they had a more realistic approach.

[@Odin029]

I'm late to this video, but one glaring thing I learned is that the US allowed its ship building capability to wither on the vine.

[@inscrutianaII]

Unless Congress intervenes and keeps a shipyard and all of those trained workers up and down the supply chain busy building ships the Navy doesn't want... like the LCS. They may not be survivable in a near peer conflict but they kept highly skilled ship builders paid and sharp.

[@metal_bassist]

Hull for FFG 62 won't be launched in 2024. Also, there will not be a second shipyard for the time being as the engineering design is still being developed and there are constant revisions even though they are already constructing the first vessel. There are also 4 MMSC vessels that need to be completed in order to open the full shipyard to production of FFG. The parent design for the most part has been redone completely as the US navy has hundreds of requirements that are different spanning from distance between pipe hangers to redundancy of propulsion and mission critical systems. The weight of the ship is also an issue as adding large systems such as Aegis, Captas, and VLS brings the weight up. This will lead to slower top speed and maneuverability. The navy wants a destroyer for the cost and build time of the LCS.

[@bobbuilder9143]

Anyone else have the issue when playing World of warships or any of there versions that when you team up and try to que it says you cant play this event? we gave up and couldn't really find anything about it. Love the Content Binkov!! keep up the great work!

[@imkeerock]

The US needs a lot of reliable good ships. Not a few great ships that are high maintenance and don't do what their supposed to do half the time.

[@jasonbose3507]

I'm so glad that the Department of the Navy is thinking clearly now when it comes to ocean battle demands and going with the Constellation Class Frigate, I laughed and cried when the Navy was building garbage for war. Thanks for making this video!

[@hunterwolfe8737]

So they’re spending more of our money picking fights with other countries and you’re happy?

[@NickCorruption]

​@@hunterwolfe8737You realize it's the "other countries" that are invading their neighbors, right?

[@phil20_20]

Think of all the Corvettes we could have had for the price of those LCS. That's even sadder that being replaced by frigates.

[@billballbuster7186]

Constellation will support the new much larger and more capable DDG-X Destroyer due by the end of the decade. No doubt some the new weaponry and sensors being developed will trickle down to the Constellations.

[@user-mm1nt1it5v]

The most ironic part of the whole “swappable mission module” concept from lcs is that the vls system achieves basically the same thing in a much better design that is much more integrated with the rest of the supply chain/fleet. Instead of having to swap out whole modules you can just choose different ways to pack the cells according to need. Need more anti submarine capability, pack more vl-asroc into the cells. Need more anti air capability, quad pack essm into vls cells. Need more surface strike capability, pack a bunch of tomahawk missiles. Need a little bit of everything, put a little bit of everything in the cells. Vls solved this exact problem a long time ago and does a great job at it.

[@bamagrad99]

From what I've read, when it comes to the modules, the two that caused problems were the towed sonar for hunting subs and the minesweeping module. The towed array module never worked right and having a ship the size (and cost) of an LCS just sweeping mines was hilarious overkill. They could've bought 4 or 5 purpose built minesweepers for less than what we had to pay for one LCS.

[@CoolCraftCool]

LCS would be a good idea for europe for the Mediterranean, the Baltic and North Sea maybe even the Norwegan sea and Atlantic between Ireland and Portugal. you need the hull numbers to patrol so much cost line while sometimes needing more man power than most potrol boats can offer the LCS which for me is a heavy Potrol Boat with a mission module than can give it some utility at something beyond would be the ship type for that kind of job. Shame about the lack of crew space though that really limits a ship.

[@johngodden4363]

I’d like to see a comparison between the US Constellation Class and the future Australian Hunter Class frigates.

[@Kishanth.J]

I would like to see a comparison between the Type 26, Hunter Class and Canadian Surface Combat ship. Their all based on the same hull but have different sensors and weapon load outs.

[@arakami8547]

The Hunter is the more capable vessel, especially so for ASW, though is much more expensive. That's not to detract from the Constellation, she is a fine class of ship for the USN, possibly even more-so than the Arleigh Burke were the Constellation afforded a theatre BMD capability. Between Hunter and Constellation, the Hunter has available to her a hull sonar and acoustic tilings, as well as torpedo launchers, all items that the Constellation lacks. Hunter as well has greater hangar/mission bay space, plus a gun with prospects to fire the kingfisher munition. For topside combat the Hunter should have a superior radar suite, whilst the Constellation has about 8 additional VLS cells. The Hunter should have a comparably capable, if not superior CIWS and point defence capability to the Constellation too. I also expect living standards aboard the Hunter to be far greater than that of the Constellations, USN ships have always been purgatory to live on - worse than on even Russian or Chinese vessels, surprisingly.

[@mrspaceman2764]

I'm pretty sure the Constellation will be getting the Aegis system. It's not able to fit the newer and larger version but it would still be installed.

[@sheldon7979]

*Maybe* in future flights but not initially, and it's not hard to see why. AEGIS is a very expensive system to install on a ship, and for a ship to perform the roles that a frigate would is rather unnecessary in most situations. Most basic patrols and escort operations a frigate would perform wouldn't require a system as powerful as AEGIS, and in the rare situation that it would it'd be highly likely that there is an AEGIS equipped destroyer or cruiser already with the fleet its with that it can slave its own missiles to if need be. Definitely not something worth spending several tens of millions of dollars over if it doesn't really need it.

[@johnsilver9338]

Problem is it don't have an illuminating radar if I'm not wrong so it can't use SM-2 anyway. Maybe with SM-6 but those will go immediately to Burke. So mostly it will carry VL-ASROC and ESSMs. Maybe future flight will get one.

[@jiasunzhang8001]

LCS was originally design to patrol at enemy coastal and counter small ship guerrilla warfare, that's why it was installed such a huge engine to reach 33 knots high speed so they can hunt on the sea. However, PLAN has changed.

[@Leon1Aust]

I see what you did there 🤣

[@metaphysicalArtist]

Greece is getting 4+2 Freedom ships, lets see you make a video, about their upgrade possibilities to Corvette standards for the Greek Navy

[@4343-o8l]

What turkey does to a mf

[@TheHunterOfYharnam]

Greece is going to produce 7 constellation Frigates with the United States in Greece.

[@MechBandit]

Yup with friends (and leadership) like this, who needs enemies.

[@ΓεώργιοςΜαυροειδής-χ8μ]

​@@MechBandit😮 British 🇬🇧 slaves always

[@frankschmidt2303]

Greece have no money

[@elijah_9392]

Why does it seem like the US is struggling to build modern ships? Zumwalt and LCS are failures. And the Gerald R Ford class is over budget and full of corruption. The ship is amazing, but $100 per bolt? Easily jammed plumbing? This does not look good.

[@bearsausage8599]

It looks like a golden opportunity to make money. Which is good to me.

[@rungfang27]

Only failure on Zumwalts was the price tag, both for ship and for its ammo. Everyone needs a 50k hammer!

[@elijah_9392]

@@jacobculliver8324 We're paying $100 for every regular steel bolt on the Gerald R Ford. That looks like corruption to me.

[@elijah_9392]

@@rungfang27 There were issues with the propulsion system being unreliable and weapons failing.

[@ryuukeisscifiproductions1818]

if the bolt is a very large diameter structural bolt, that's also stainless steel to resit corrosion, of course they are going to cost $100. There is a very big difference between your garden variety 1/2 inch bolt and a 3 inch diameter bolt designed to hold massive steel I beams together. Just as an example, a bolt with a 2 inch head and 8 inches long designed to hold steel I beams together retails for $36 each. So its absolutely believable that even larger bolts designed to withstand the stresses of holding a 100,000 ton ship together and resist salt water corrosion is going to be more expensive.

[@sharrukhin]

I'm curios if we'll see cruisers again. Those giant designs to accomodate large radars looked impressive

[@z3iro383]

Once they retrofit the Zumwalts with hypersonic missiles, I hope they're also equipped with flag facilities and redesigned as cruisers, since they're absolutely colossal compared with any other "destroyer." Probably not gonna happen but I can hope

[@jonathanpfeffer3716]

maybe, but modern Navy doctrine is looking towards a “distributed lethality” concept which would deemphasize investment into cruisers. can’t predict the future though.

[@fredlandry6170]

Little Crappy Ship is very accurate.

[@jakerocinante1133]

I keep wondering when the first frigate will debut and thought I saw it on google earth in the shipyard, but after a closer look it’s a retiring freedom class LCS.

[@andymontemayor175]

I wish we could keep the Ticonderoga class cruisers, nothing like a ship with 122 vls cells!

[@thetrademarkclan]

Yeah but this new constellation class is rather lethargic in the launcher category with supposedly only 32 VLS and 16 Tube launch strike for NSMs. It will be crap....once again.

[@alexanderjones7196]

Why not build a better one with like 150 modernized vls cells and fewer crew? Tico is great, but the hulls are aging to the point where if any more new tech is added the system decreases overall efficiency same with the Burkes.

[@oldkid8811]

navy is migrating away from having too many eggs in one basket and greater modularity. Say 3 burkes = 2 Ticos on firepower, but burkes cost 5% less because of common parts, Navy will pick 3 Burkes all century long.

[@kevinbryer2425]

The most egregious issue with the LCS program is the expensive outsourced maintenance regime that requires contractors to be flown into the theater instead of having the crew maintain it, like every other warship in history. This is exacerbated by the high speed mission concept that beat the hell out of the hull, and required complicated, and, it turns out, flawed propulsion systems. Which required a hell of a lot of maintenance. The lack of generalized weaponry makes one wonder what's the point. But I don't think that invalidates the need for smaller, scaled surface combatants. For a navy with global commitments, there is a great need to balance capability and coverage. It makes sense to create ships with roughly half the capability of your mainline destroyers for half the price, like the Constellation, and ships with half the capability of those for half again the price, like the LSC, only more like a proper corvette. We could stand to go the other way with cruisers and battlecruisers too. The question then is how to turn the LCS into a proper corvette. Start by ditching the outsourced maintenance and high speed requirement. It doesn't need to go any faster than the carriers to provide an extra layer of escort in high intensity engagements. Simplify the propulsion system with proven gas turbines and screws. Update the sensor suite to Aegis standard. For a primary armament, we can borrow a page from the equally troubled Zumwalt, and employ Mk 57 PVLS cells along the helipad. It would probably have to be sized for the self defense role, like the Mk 41s before them, but that would still net 16-32 cells capable of hosting ASROCs, NSMs, ESSMs, and SM-2s, which is plenty for a corvette. The Independence class probably has the most potential, with it's vast mission bay. This is begging to be converted into aviation facilities, with an elevator to move helicopters to and from the flight deck. It would also make a great patrol boat tender, as such craft are much better suited for the high speed prosecution mission.

[@Soravia]

Poor execution with too narrow focus and unproven techniques doesn't mean the original idea isn't sound, Orr the mission set isn't valid. I'd outfit them for various close defense needs and sell them off to countries like Vietnam. So long as main parts are made to be maintained by the buyers capabilities

[@cgmason7568]

It's a navy thing the Coast Guard does 90% of everything for the Mk110

[@edl617]

The constellation frigate first build is on hold. The changes NavSea did to the FREMM design actually made a completely different vessel. Dumb move

[@knowsmebyname]

The US navy has a miserable design history it seems.

[@deanfirnatine7814]

Geez the Pentagon cannot make any correct decision

[@namyun2743]

IIRC, they wanted to put a 'Burke's equivalent worth of gear on the Constellation with 1/3rd the VLS silos. Expect costs to balloon.

[@knowsmebyname]

@@namyun2743 they are in a tough position facing swarms of missles. The Navy needs a defensive measure beyond missile on missile. The latest Burke, I forget the name, has this bulging midship of defensive warfare. They need this technology to mature. To be effective.

[@namyun2743]

@@knowsmebyname Oh yeah, I just saw an image of that yesterday on a news channel.. Fat Burke with ALL the EW systems, lol. Seriously, I agree, we need to invest in more sofkill systems like this.

[@CaptainQueue]

No one seems to recall that both LCS types -- Freedom and Independence -- were originally competitors and only one was supposed to win the LCS competition. The US Government, most likely the White House, permitted both to win to bolster employment numbers in two problem states and therefore look good to the media. As a result we lost economies of scale and raced to complete two designs instead of one, while doubling training and complex logistics required to sustain two completely different ships. The LCS failures fall squarely on the Pentagon and WH, not the manufacturers or Naval officers and sailors.

[@Random_Canadian00001]

No one remembers or cares that the LCS was designed around the cancelled NLOS missile and after the missile was cancelled they were redesigned to replace the Avenger class Minesweepers. The first 10 ships are also test and design platforms with the first 4 being prototypes.(3 retired). The first 10 are part of the FORD, Burke FLIGHT III & Future Frigate development programmes along with US Navy cooperative engagement capability and Rotary wing autonomous command & strike... And the weapons development programmes for the very light, light and heavy torpedoes. People don't understand that without the LCS ships ... The US Navy would have come to a complete halt. No new torpedoes, No new 3rd party/remote targeting, No SPY 6 Radar software, No SEWIP 2, 2+ or 3 Electronic warfare systems, No MQ-8B or C Firescout UAV's No remote deck installation of Naval Stroke Missile packs to deck using open software solutions, No Swarm targeting using Sea rated Hellfire missiles, No refresh of the AH-1 using new the new Hellfires developed for the LCS, No New Hellfires on the MH-60S & R No new open arc. Sidescan radars for submarine and Mine warfare ... This list hasn't even touched on the Constellation class development. People have no fucking clue about the LCS and how it was the FOUNDATION OF THE ENTIRE NAVY ... And still is. Quirks with the SPY-6 are still being run out and verified on an LCS now, even with FORD sailing (you can't just shutdown and fuck with its radar while it's launching planes and sailing with other ships)

[@riskinhos]

@@Random_Canadian00001 bs. that would have been one in any other ship

[@grandgao3984]

The problem really dates back to Wall Street genius deciding to ship the industries and jobs overseas. The loss in the economy of scale really started back then

[@HamannGeorg]

Sorry, but the Freedom Class has serious Design Flaws and what i hear also the Independence (the prototype started to degrade really fast as the aluminium alloy did not hold up as expected. But they seem to have fixed that - but they still are vulnerable). Also a large Problem is that the navy is not allowed to maintain them on their own. Only the contractors are allowed to do that wich increases the running cost of the class quite a bit.

[@CaptainQueue]

@@grandgao3984 both these ship variants are built in the US

[@Hamsteak]

I live near the Welland Canal. I can't wait to see these warships in person going through the canal

[@Trebelsi]

My great grandfather John was master of the locks.

[@capn82]

The Connie’s are work horses that will free up the burkes. While I don’t expect the ABM role filled, they should have close to the flight one Burke capability against air breathing targets. I hope the triple torpedo tubes will be added, as well as a few with a five inch gun for coastal bombardment. If the NSM was replaced with the new GMLRs or GLSDB, these could do a lot of coastal damage combined with volcano rounds in the 127.

[@namyun2743]

No need for separate torpedo tubes, they're not as good as VL ASROC. But that obviates the need for more VL cells. I hope the navy opts for 48 cells. A 5-inch gun is too much for a frigate. It's too specialized for surface warfare. The Italians have a 76mm gun that splits the difference between 57mm and 127mm in capability. Can even outrange the 127mm in surface fire mode.

[@onebridge7231]

Give the LCS’s to the U.S. Coast Guard and let them start sinking illegal fishing trawlers. No boarding, just target practice.

[@bambam144]

sounds for me like rough sea (bad for the independence class ), or u should be drive faster, than a sailing fregatte (freedom class).

[@arakami8547]

Certified America moment.

[@phil20_20]

Just out of curiosity, I tried my hand at designing a good corvette for the U.S. Navy for use in the Western Pacific region. When I finally compaired it to the Constellation Class, which is a Corvette by Fincantieri standards, I realized it's right within the standards I came up with. Not my ideal armament or size, but the compromises I reached anyway. I would have made it shorter for ports in the area, but under 500' was the limit. They want it Blue Water worthy so that's good. I would have put a 76mm, 105mm, or even a 127mm main gun, but the cyclical rate of the 57mm is hard to beat for close-in air defense from a main gun. The range is minimal though. One Seahawk, check. Better propulsion system than the LCS, not hard to do. The rest is spot on. 😊 We just need a hell of a lot more of them! Like, 120 of them. That's the 80 optional, plus another forty, but maybe another 40 would be good if not complemented by something else like a new destroyer class. Oh, one question: is it an aluminum hull? And if so, I hope it's a better alloy than they used on the LCS! Also, they under engineered it for the material they knew they were going to use. Tsk tsk - it's pointless to go modular. You get more coverage from a multirole platform.

[@definitelyfrank9341]

Thing displaces nearly as much as the Type-072D destroyer and 2,000 tons more than the Admiral Gorshkov which is already considered to be a super-sized frigate, and you're calling it a _corvette_. Dude, the 2,200 ton Steregushchiy-class corvettes are classified by the U.S. as frigates.

[@Marcellogo]

WHAAAT?? The FrEEM from which the Constellation derive are classified as Fleet Frigates in both MMI and M i.e. an equivalent of a fleet Destroyer, just specialized for ASW/ASUW roles. In a certain sense the Constellation seem a derated version of it, being destined mainly to escort roles, akin to the old Knox and Perry Class. To made a comparison the same role in the MMI is covered by the PPA of Thaon De Revel class,

[@dwwolf4636]

There would still be a valid case for the NSC derivative patrol frigate 4921. Long range escorts of convoys....which will be a problem. It has enough range and fighting power for it to fight off raiders and lone subs. While being cheaper and requiring less personel to operate. Cheap and sturdy hull form and decent speed without being excessive.

[@lucianorosarelli-xr5lr]

@@Marcellogo le nostre fremm oltretutto possono essere armate con lanciasiluri come i PPA ( light+ e pesanti ) considerabili fregate leggere 16 celle un po pochine ma sicuramente con molto spazio per aggiunte per esempio moduli pallettizzati

[@ashvandal5697]

When exactly are we as netizens going to agree that ship classification by displacement is an outdated concept and stop caring what country calls it’s ship this or that? The Constellation class is smaller than existing and future US destroyers, and larger than USCG cutters, since we don’t actually use corvettes. Thus, in USN nomenclature, it’s a frigate. Other navies have other requirements.

[@ramonpunsalang3397]

No torpedo tubes on a ship whose primary mission is ASW? Penny-wise, Pound-foolish.

[@sheldon7979]

Eh, torpedo tubes are more of a last ditch effort against a submarine these days. Helicopters are often your primary method of detecting, tracking and attacking an enemy submarine. If the helicopter can't attack for whatever reason, than you can use something like a RUM-139 fired from the VLS launchers. I agree that it probably should have some torpedoes in any shape or form, even if they're hull-mounted like on the old Forrest Sherman class destroyers or the Visby class corvettes. But I also don't think its the dumbest decision in the world.

[@johnsilver9338]

It will mostly carry VL-ASROC and ESSMs anyway. It can't carry SM-2 as it don't have an illuminating radar. And SM-6 will immediately go to Burke destroyers.

[@AChannelThatDoesNothing]

Good video. I always felt a bit bad for the LCS. Great concept, so cool-looking (especially Independence), but plagued with so many problems they're heading to the chopping block. Time to say goodbye. I'm glad the Independences won't go away to continue the legacy of LCS. Sure hope the Zumwalts won't go away.

[@squgieman]

the problem is the navy wanted a corvette to do the job of a frigate, it was always bound to fail

[@alienclay2]

@@squgieman I Agree. The initial crew layout for LCS was an 8 man engineering team. That made no sense whatsoever. It was as if the ships ops designer came from the school of building intermodal cargo ships not naval ships.

[@AChannelThatDoesNothing]

@@squgieman Corvettes are 1500 tons. Search up China's. LCS are over twice that size. The LCS weren't supposed to replace frigates, because the frigates were overkill after the Cold War. Of course you only need a smaller ship when it needs to do less. And the other requirement, minesweeping, doesn't require large ships either. Of course, we need, big powerful ships again, hence the Constellation class.

[@kermittoad]

Zumwalts are staying for quite a bit with it's upgrades in 2025.

[@AChannelThatDoesNothing]

@@kermittoad Agreed. I still hope that the guns work someday and that more are built though. Maybe someday.

[@DoDar]

That was a great video, thanks.

[@mattBLACKpunk]

I prefer figurative combat ships

[@cjthebeesknees]

That’s what we’ve been getting for decades, the slack is apparent.

[@danpatterson8009]

The "highly modular, many roles, small crew" bullet points will sound familiar to anyone who has watched a PowerPoint presentation for the design of a new system as presented by some cluck who won't be around to actually make it work.

[@Walterwaltraud]

Not really, you simply gotta ask realistically, when is the technology mature? When did most fighters become fighter bombers/ attack fighters post WWII? Took a while to get rid of reconnaissance planes specialized at that, but the similarity of requirements went into - a pod in the end. You may want precision guidance BVR missiles but Vietnam was too early. In 2023 we are moving towards DE, which would have been ridiculous in 1972. The NSM is small, beatifull and thus great, but older ASM that were not air breathing had very short legs. So the timing is essential. Any Soviet cutter could only be a KGB lookout, but imagine how small microelectronics have become and how small and modular CIWS, sonar equipment, VLS, APKWS and RAM have become over time. No one would put a Tartar on a 150 foot ship, but today, you can come up with crazy combinations. If the USN wanted to fight pirates off the horn of Africa and fight small littoral ships in the Persian Gulf, imitating a concept that works in the Black and Baltic Sea per se is a good idea. The problem is - execution. In short, you are not wrong, but demanding small, flexible, all in one, modular, larger production volume per se is a valid approach. It simply shall not be exaggerated.

[@VisibilityFoggy]

The best plan for the LCS ships is probably to come up with a minimal "fix" for the combining gear issue and sell them to the Philippines, where a Pacific war would actually be largely focused on littoral combat. You're never going to truly solve the combining gear issue, but there are workarounds that would work for navies other than the USN.

[@ex0duzz]

Philippines can probably afford 1 ship if they are lucky. Lmao.

[@rigelkent8401]

The Philippians would be far better off with the visby class corvette .

[@rgloria40]

Shore Bombardment or Sea based Artillery is a mission not fully understood. Another is brown water capabilities to go up the rivers of China. Yet, another is hotel and taxi service for Marine to the beach, up the river, and special operations. This is the size of platoon or Company.

[@15halerobert]

The US navy needs to rapidly and urgently build ships to support 14 - 16 Aircraft carries battle groups. This includes more Ticonderoga class antiair cruisers if necessary

[@gelinrefira]

The US does not have the industrial capacity to do that. Or it will have to expand it by using money it doesn't have. The ongoing de-dollarization will ensure that doesn't happen, which is great for everyone.

[@AdurianJ]

LCS could be a great patrol vessel especially its two helicopters is a great asset.

[@arvypolanco]

I wouldn't be surprised if these get handed over to the Coast Guard eventually, it almost seems they were designed more for them.

[@bamagrad99]

except that both designs are complete junk. Nothing on them works as advertised, Freedom class has unresolved engine problems that greatly limits their speed and Independence class literally fall apart if the waves are too big.

[@kommandantvhs4994]

LCS (little crappie ships) made some congressmen a lot of money

[@someoneinasia]

constellation looks like a mini arleigh burke.

[@History_Coffee]

Excellent overview as always

[@wearebecomedeathstar2658]

Does the LCS's speed matter? Presumably, it's not designed to leave the littoral area of the coast, hence the name. It's not exactly a blue sea ship, is it?

[@charlesmaurer6214]

Constellation is at least a fair design but the construction while still redesigning is ruining the budget and completion dates. The design needs frozen to build and combine the ideas from it and the UK equivalent to begin the design process for the next class.

[@JerrySeriatos]

I do not want to command a battleship ; I want to load the guns of a battleship. Any game you can do that?

[@0Defensor0]

I never understood what exactly these LCS ships were supposed to do. There were intended for littoral waters right? You know, close to shore? If it ever needs anti-submarine capabilities that would mean the rest of the navy has failed at everything. And mine cleaning too? Are you afraid that the enemy submarines are going to mine your shores? And if I remember correctly there was also a part where they were supposed to keep up with the carrier groups, because apparently a carrier's defense area in the middle of the ocean also counts as US littoral water. The entire idea is a mess...

[@lolasdm6959]

no it's also to operate offensively in South China sea, where there are lots of shallow water.

[@austinyou2757]

Yeah I work at Marinette Marine and I'm pretty sure they're done with the boat launches with the LCS sold to the US but we're still building a couple and selling them to the Saudi's

[@gleitsonSalles]

But the Saudi version is bigger no?

[@brunol-p_g8800]

@@gleitsonSalles yes, the Saudi version is bigger and fitted with different sensors and armament. What you need to remember is that what a shipyard offers isn’t what the countries shipyard use: I mean that they have catalogue of armament an sensors, but then the country chooses if they want that or that, if they want the full capability of the ship or if the just want the minimal,… It is the case for the Lafayette frigates for example: the French chose minimal armament for cost cutting, the others chose VLS launched aster missiles, full ASW capabilities, etc.

[@osea5000]

0:00 No, I have never wondered this.

[@bamagrad99]

The LCS program, from design to production, is the worst-case scenario for how the military industrial complex and greedy politicians can combine to do grievous harm to the nation. Everyone in the Navy and Congress who had a hand in it should at the very least be investigated for corruption and required to forfeit their taxpayer funded salaries and pensions for the rest of their lives. The Constellations at least look like they will be good, capable ships that won't fall apart in anything other than a calm sea. However, due to how much time, money, and shipbuilding capacity was wasted on LCS, our fleet is now way, way behind the 8-ball for where it needs to be. Edit: Just to give an idea of how staggeringly stupid the LCS program and everyone involved with it is, it seems that we are STILL BUILDING Freedom class ships (even though the Navy has told Congress that they don't want them) just to keep the Wisconsin shipyard workers busy until they can start making Constellations. Someone needs to go to prison for this sh!#

[@MikeDarr61]

As a U.S. navy vet I agree. The Navy doesn’t need to except no more gold plated garbage scowls. Maybe if our Pentagon and politicians would stop worrying about arming Ukraine with every weapon we have and spend the money on rebuilding our military and weapons stockpiles.

[@rgloria40]

If I was in charge I would cancel putting some of the advance weapons, communication suit and etc... All they need is one gun, one basic HF, UHF/VHF satcom, and taxi some Marines around with basic supplies/Fuel...Return to the basic LST missions set. PS Speed up the Constellation Class, Destroyers, AA Missile building (SM6, Stinger, AIM120 and) and Make Super Hornet MACH 2 plus capable....

[@bamagrad99]

@@rgloria40 the ships themselves are junk. They literally fall apart if the waves are too big.

[@rgloria40]

@@bamagrad99 It is not like they did not know that high speed craft like wooden tall sailing ship would not get cracks if it travel faster than 10 knots... That has always been the nature of ships... Would General Mathis call you a Snowflake...Maybe

[@bamagrad99]

@@rgloria40 WTF are you talking about? "high speed" wooden sailing ships? 10knots? You do know that this is the 21st century and that steel hulled, diesel/ turbine powered warships have been a thing for over 100 years? Would General Mathis call you an idiot? Probably.

[@Dog.soldier1950]

From a shipbuilding view having two types for a single mission adds costs

[@GRIGGINS1]

If they make future flights for the Constellations. Built-in sonar could be added

[@jorehir]

Built-in sonar was already present in the original FREMM design. The US Navy specifically took it away.

[@GRIGGINS1]

@@jorehir blame the bean counters for that.

[@dfoley6389]

Great analysis.

[@NigelDeForrest-Pearce-cv6ek]

Excellent and Outstanding!!!!

[@scottjuhnke6825]

Whoever designed the LCSs played too much Battletech in the 80s. The Constellation Class are not a new ship. They are French/Italian FREMM Frigates. We'll simply be equipping them with American gear.

[@brunol-p_g8800]

They are Italian Bergamini class derivatives, they have nothing to do with the French Aquitaine class. Don’t insult the French..

[@scottjuhnke6825]

@@brunol-p_g8800 They are still FREMM.

[@brunol-p_g8800]

@@scottjuhnke6825 sure, they are still Multi Missions Frigates (FREMMs), but they have nothing to do with the class of ships that is recognised around the world as being the most advanced and lethal (the Aquitaine class), that win the competitions for anti submarine warfare year after year, that successfully launched land attacks through cruise missiles in Northern Africa, that always fail to be detected by submarines and ships in allied exercises, that is recognised as the world’s best electronic warfare surface ship,… it is like if I sell you a soviet Lada car and a Bugatti, their are both automobiles but the difference is huge

[@scottjuhnke6825]

@@brunol-p_g8800 Yep one is grossly overpriced. LOL. I see what you are arguing, and we can agree on that.

[@Idahoguy10157]

The navy needs 50 plus Constellation class frigates. 100 would be better

[@rgloria40]

as well as more missile cells to match an Arliegh Burke...

[@Idahoguy10157]

@@rgloria40 … the Constellations need to be qualitatively and quantitatively better than both the Perry’s and LCS combined

[@rgloria40]

@@Idahoguy10157 LCS replaced the LST and Knox class frigates...while the NAVY was ramping up the Amphibious Naval Mission Sets... Still need a 5 inch gun....as 50 cal mounts

[@Idahoguy10157]

@@rgloria40 …. The Knox class left in the 1980’s. As the Perry’s were coming in. I can’t speak about LSTs. Except I don’t see how as an LCS can’t land on a beach?

[@billwhitis9997]

So the design and engineering flaws can be fixed at the expense of the manufacturer... but instead, the Navy wants to get rid of them. However the Navy has not been captured by their contractors. Ummm ... yeah.

[@MrDecelles]

It's an exageration. The ships are cracking, engines are blowing and is not able to host the modules. The current constellation program is a total mess.

[@neutronalchemist3241]

Much of the early problems had been fixed. Simply LCS had been conceived in the '90s for police work. The thing other navies do with corvettes. Only a little more heavily armed. A war with China was not contemplated. Result. Too expensive to be corvettes, and almost useless as warships. That's why the program is being redimensioned.

[@Deltarious]

I've looked over the LCS program and the requirements a lot, and I really don't think the initial concept or even the requirements when they downselected were too far off the mark, I think they were relatively good sets of ideas. However the project really seems to have suffered massively from mismanagement in all the worst ways, and there seems to have been some real shortsightedness with trying to save costs *now* without considering consequences. The modularity was also a shame, in theory I still think it could have worked if it were faster to swap out, but in practice the navy typically wants to have a ship do one thing because it puts people on the ship who are good at doing it. The navy probably would have had to have *many* LCS operating in an area for the modularity to make more sense since that way you can tailor the force composition as a whole, and the price of modules would also need to be relatively cheap with storage for them being planed and smart...Basically what I am saying is the navy probably should not have asked for modularity because they were not organized in a way they could have taken advantage of it, depsite on paper it being a reasonably good idea if LCS' costs were under control and it deployed en masse. LCS does seem to have been designed with a 'gap' in armament though at a base level, sure you could slap a module in there to fix it but the 'base armament' seems to be lacking to be honest, it really should have had at least some kind of compact VLS/launcher built in. I will say though that the aircraft capacity and flight op capabilities particularly of the Independence class do seem to be genuinely good for the size of the hull, that's a large force multiplier. It's good the navy is taking steps to correct LCS now but it's probably a case of too little too late since the project was so damn expensive already

[@xanthosparashis8819]

Some 32-cell combinations for the Constellation Class · 32 essm, 16 sm2, 8 rum-139 · 64 essm, 8 Tomahawk, 8 rum-139 · 24 sm2, 8 Tomahawk · 64 essm, 16 sm2

[@Pushing_Pixels]

As it doesn't have any torpedo tubes mounted it's going to need those 8 rum-139s. No torpedoes or hull mounted sonars is a pretty baffling choice for something that's meant to be doing ASW independently.

[@lucianorosarelli-xr5lr]

@@Pushing_Pixels torpedo anti-submarine Italian Freem: 2 x triplo WASS B-515/3 per siluri MU90 variante GP 2 × triplo WASS B-515/3 per siluri MU90 e 4 x Milas missiles variant ASW

[@Pushing_Pixels]

@@lucianorosarelli-xr5lr Yep, my country uses the MU90 as well. Best light torpedo in the world. Can be used as a point defence interceptor against incoming heavy torpedos.

[@TwilightMysts]

I always thought the Independence class was sexy looking, but the Zumwalt and both LCS designs ended up complete wastes of money. I also like the idea behind the LCS. A smaller, cheaper ship intended to be put out in larger numbers and used for patrolling medium threat regions (low threat being safe waters; high threat being places where you are likely to be attacked by near-peer warships; medium threat is pirates, non-governmental combatants like terrorists, and low capability governments). I was also a fan of the swappable mission modules. The problem was they decided to build the ship before they had effective modules, which crippled the ship. They should have spent 5 years creating effective modules, THEN designed ships to use them. Perhaps in another 10 years they can give the LCS's another shot, after the tech has matured a bit more.

[@groomschild1617]

swappable mission modules are kind of pointless for small ships like these. The extra money needed for storing the extra modules and making the equipment and training the personnel to do the modules changes could just be used to make more ships

[@TwilightMysts]

@@groomschild1617 I disagree. Larger ships will have the capacity to hold most (or all) of the systems they need. Smaller ships will have a much more limited loadout, so will benefit a lot more from being able to change mission modules to fit their current operation.

[@thehumus8688]

LCS was just "fancy" corvette - which expected to be frigate

[@memonk11]

Lack of hull mounted sonar, and no torpedo tubes, are HUGE mistakes .

[@angelograffigna3003]

Hard to believe that constellation lacks the bulb and Toledo sonars present in italian antisub FREMM’s

[@memonk11]

@@angelograffigna3003 Except for the Burkes, the US seems to be dead set on underarming it's surface ships.

[@merafirewing6591]

​​​@@memonk11 I think the Navy should revisit in making modern designs out of the Kidd-class Destroyer, Spruance-class Destroyer, Ticonderoga-class Cruiser and the Oliver Hazard Perry-class Frigate. Also Leahy-class Belknap-class, Bainbridge, Virginia-class, California-class, and Truxtun. And also a more modern version of the Long Beach Nuclear-powered Guided-Missile Cruiser.

[@rgloria40]

China has more destroyers and aircraft than the US NAVY now. For example, they have more J20 than we have F22. Another example, they have more destroyers which carry more missile now. Yet another they have combat robotic dog which can carry/use rifles, shotguns, mini chain gun, missile and etc....

[@lynnjensen150]

Towed array and towed sonar are much superior to hull mounted. The math for torpedo tubes on surface ships no longer makes any sense. Virtually all modern submarines have 21 inch torpedoes or very close to the metric of that. Surface ships have 12.8 inch torpedoes with less than half the range. An enemy sub will have fish in the water long long before a surface ship has a chance to launch torpedoes from its tubes. Surface ships attack submarines using ASROC or helicopter/drone launched torpedoes.

[@KarolMcDonskee]

Currently Poland is on the shopping :) I bet ifd they get a nice deal, they going to buy as much as they can