On the Wrist, from off the Cuff: WristWatch Rambles & Rants - Episode 07

On this latest instalment of WWRR we will once again talk about the hot button topic of Seiko, as I continue to see a lot of false narratives spread about their pricing and market strategies that are just plain reaching. As a specific example we'll preview Seiko's new SRPD97 / SARY147 from their Presage line, it's in the 38mm scale many fans have been clamoring for over the years but of course as soon as it's released, people decide to chime in on how it's another example of Seiko losing their way. So essentially after complaining about 40mm watches in the $750 to $1000 range being too large and expensive, Seiko answers with a 38mm in the $500 range and fans comeback saying the watch should only cost $250... seriously guys? There's a lot to unpack here, so buckle up, enjoy the ramble and don't forget to let me know what you think in the comments below, thanks guys!
This Segment Brought to you by Wrist Candy Watch Club:
wristcandywatchclub.com/

[@1watch2watch3watchmore5]

Holy Schmolly... Best rant I've heard in a looooong time. Loved every bit of it bro.

[@AverageBros]

Thanks Tony!

[@SecondHourWatches]

Excellent points on homage watches and I think they're points that needed to be made. Another great video. Cheers

[@AverageBros]

Appreciate it, thanks.

[@frazierriver]

beautiful watch and great value... I own the SARB 033 and 035 and love them both.

[@azizhusseinz2083]

Don't forget that Seiko even the master of producing mainspring. Something that only few company in the world that able to do that.

[@Munki]

I'm gonna get this watch. I was tossing up between the SRPD97 and the SRPD39, but the 38mm size just sounds more appealing.

[@sdjohnston67]

Great insights!

[@squirrelmurphy2855]

You hit the nail on the head!

[@Yos115]

Love this video you're speaking sense! Seiko watches are still great deals and I absolutely love them. I just bought the SARY147 today!

[@EnemyOfGod007]

I totally agree with you! You cannot compare apples with pears... That said.. I am actually looking for a new Seiko watch and this is the one I'm also considering. I have a hard time choosing between the new SRPD97/99, (450$) the SARB033/035 (500$) or the new alpinist in black/cream dial (650$) - those are local prices in Germany btw. All of those above are really similar to each other. 38-39mm cases, black or white/cream dial, sapphire crystal, exhibition caseback and: all of them are strap monsters.. Which one of those would you recommend? Cheers!

[@herebarian]

Seiko is upgrading its image, especially with the presage and prospex lines. In the Indian economic context, it is considered a premium and well regarded brand. Hardly anyone in India views Seiko as a 'budget' watch, since people here can already get far cheaper quartz and mechanical watches from homegrown and Chinese brands.

[@UnNamedTrucker]

It would be very cool if Crown & Caliber let you take over the currently defunct Watch and Listen podcast. You did a great job when you appeared on that show. I hate perlon watch bands though. Ick.

[@El-AYE-Ra1s3d]

Is that 38 size a solid white? Or does it have like a blue tint?

[@timmcdonald5335]

Great rant and Seiko is a great company. I bought the PADI 62mas modern version at a great price. Love the watch. Now I see Invicta are copying this design. What people are perhaps complaining about is that it is difficult to understand the difference in price between this 62mas PADI version and the more recent Seiko model (which came out about a year later) has identical specifications but is $200 to $300 more expensive.

[@jimwashington860]

Is this bracelet pin and collar on the sary 147?

[@dararohan1209]

Some good analysis here. Hard hitting points.

[@BryanO92]

It's the most common economic misconception that price is linked to cost: it simply isn't, unless it's a necessity product for which there are limited alternatives, and the prices are being set by a cartel (e.g. OPEC). Any good or service in a competitive market will sell for what the consumer is willing to pay for it, full stop. If that's less than it cost, then the seller will lose money. See the beautiful Calvin Klein ETA 2824 pieces now going for $130 gray market. That's not much more than the movement itself cost them. They absolutely got rinsed, and I would be surprised if CK ever makes an automatic watch again.

[@josephgelo686]

does the sarb bracelet fit the srpd97?

[@canonyeo4286]

Damn funny video. Enjoy it very much. That Zen garden is real nice, but, it's a bit too small for your wrist.

[@dararohan1209]

I think they might reissue the Sarb like they did the Cocktail Time and Alpinist. I live in hope at least.

[@dwiesengrund577]

What brand is that great looking Jubilee on the Sarb? Looks far better proportioned than the Angus Jubilee. How about the end links? do they fit well?

[@AverageBros]

Cheapo Alpha brand, fits well and scale it nice but nothing special quality wise

[@dwiesengrund577]

@@AverageBros Thanks man! So of the Alpha bracelets, since they don´t sell a specific one for the Sarb- I guess it´s the one for the Vintage Datejusts?

[@porschephile2k3]

I think I saw them once on eBay. Definitely nothing special with a friction clasp that might come undone with a vigorous arm movement. I did email the Strap code guys about producing a Super Jubilee for the SARB line. I got a response that they will send my request to their marketing guys. I would suggest doing the same if you want to see a good quality Jubilee bracelet for the SARBs.

[@R8Prototype]

I thought Seiko made all their dials, but when I was researching a watch - Kurono by Hajime Asaoka - they mentioned using the same dial manufacturer as Grand Seiko. So now I'm unsure. Maybe it's that they get their unfinished dials from a manufacturer and then finish them in house?

[@jwags24]

This is a good discussion that I happen to disagree with you on. Seiko production is more streamlined now than it was 15 years ago thanks to technology. It is probably less expensive now to create a watch or movement than it was then. Seiko made 136 million dollars in profit last year. This is all about profit, not necessarily costs going up. It’s about pleasing shareholders. Which I don’t fault them for. Capitalism says we can vote with our wallets if we don’t like it.

[@AverageBros]

So you believe they've paid their employees less over time and their machinery doesn't require any cost associated with maintenance or replacement?

[@keresadministratum5008]

I love the new watch the size is perfect the price is fine, just has that darn presage word on it. Why couldn’t they just have it say seiko.

[@A_Dude_And_His_Watch78]

It's an interesting perspective, but people are still going to vote with their wallets.

[@Super3xtr4]

I really like the sary147

[@markmaier2503]

100%

[@12and60]

I agree with you 100% on this. What you were saying reminded me of a FB argument I inadvertently got into- people were trying to tell me that the Heimdallr homage of the Christopher Ward Trident was just as good as it. 😂 I politely disagreed!

[@anthonyjack1859]

Could you give the link to the Alpha bracelet?

[@AverageBros]

alpha-1993.com/collections/watch-steel-bands/products/jubilee-stainless-steel-bracelet-20mm

[@anthonyjack1859]

@@AverageBros thanks

[@brett2396]

If they could just add sapphire to the Seiko 5 SNKL45 or snx79 and charge $200 that would be perfect 👍

[@gdesatyavrata]

Just bought a SNKL45, amazing watch, totally agree with you, but hey we can change the crystal using third party parts? Not planning to change mine till it scratches tho

[@crBudgetWatches]

They could add it and just charge 20 usd more. I changed mine for 30 usd so they definetely can do it for way less but won't because it would cannibalize their mid tiers.

[@scottparis6355]

Yah, No. I would buy your argument about how much Seiko spends on design if all Seiko dress watches didn't look exactly the same. From $150 to $1500, you can buy a whole family of Seikos that have leaf or dauphine hands, stick markers, no lume, date at 3. If you hold up a $150 SUR quartz and a Grand Seiko, from 5 feet away, it's not easy to tell which is which. Seiko is a monster corporation, like General Motors. More than likely their designs are worked out in team meetings. Somebody says, "We need to design a watch for the $600 slot. So we know it gets a 4R36 movement, Hardlex crystal, 50 meters WR. Now we need to chose the hands and dial finish. Raise your hand if you want Dauphine. Good. Now here are the three dial finishes we have on the shelf this month." "Oh, hands polished or brushed?" Even if they have a real designer, his salary is divided into the million watches they will make this year. Seiko could easily compete with those Chinese brands with their 100 meter WR, sapphire crystals, etc, etc. Seiko choses not to.

[@johandebondt5749]

If you like this, check out the Sary055... same styling, modern size. My fav dress watch on tan ostrich. Gets more wrist time than my black Visodate or champagne dial KhakiKing. This being said, I got a Sarb033 for my teenage son for Xmas, while they're still around new. The perfect (auto) 1 watch collection for his wrist size. NB: kinda jealous of him now ;-)

[@ElijsDima]

Dude, you cannot talk about chapter ring alignments and "cheap watches" when any of seiko's divers between 500 to 1000 (6rmas, new sumo, etc.) also have alignment issues exactly as the cheaper models do. Idk what world you live in, imo an $800-$900 msrp does not equal a cheap watch.

[@matttheoneonly6617]

Seiko is an amazing brand. The people who complain these days are so annoying

[@tacohans2262]

Well said mate, totally agree.

[@hyperlingg7608]

It's the old problem: humans have a hard time getting inflation and interest especially those that are in a paycheck-to-paycheck mindset.

[@bobcrane812]

This is a disingenuous argument. The very first thing that needs to be address is Seiko is asking more for less on a non essential item, when has that ever been an easy sell. You also never address the fact that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the original sarb line, i.e. why do they need successors? And lastly you make the case that microbrands have significant manufacturing advantages over one of the biggest watch makers in the game, think about that. You really think seiko but a lot into R&D on an inferior version of a previous watch? Love the channel just disagree.

[@AverageBros]

Love the feedback Bob, but your taking some of the commentary too literally. The SARB line is discontinued and an perfect example of if it were to be revived would be the Alpinist, it's a more expensive watch now, than what it was. If the brought back the SARB035, it'd surely be in the $750 range as well. This new Presage is actually more akin to the old SARB due to it's place in the market. Yes, it's a lower spec but at a lower cost vs. What it would be today, yes higher than yesteryear but of course it should be, it's been over 15 years now.

[@AverageBros]

As for Microbrand manufacturing advantages, they have the advantage of near zero overhead. No machines, maintenance, operators, to pay for, they just order the parts. Nothing to develop or improve, they just order the tier of item available in their budget. The smaller market alone makes pricing infinitely cleaner, think about how easy it is for Lamborghini to price a new supercar vs. Audi having to figure out where a new model fits into their range in price vs. Value, you want to be competitive to the outside market but cannot risk cannibalizing your other products.

[@bobcrane812]

@@AverageBros Fair enough, microbrand smaller sizes does reduce the overhead cost but they still have to pay the manufactures to make all that stuff reducing their profit margins. And I understand inflation but thats not really gonna fly on watches when everyone has a phone in their pocket. Finally, the 5kx line is dangerously close to fashion watch territory and thats not a good thing imo

[@f0o0rest]

Disagree. Phones for example that's not fair. Technology is developing tremendously. Imagine computers get hardware from 10 years ago and companies starting to charge more then 10 years ago. Machinery is superior then 10 years ago it's easier and faster to make same watch. These are created by machines not by hands. Seiko is charging more for less product.

[@michael_g3726]

F all the Feiko and Folex trash homages.

[@zzxxenith]

The fact that this watch doesn't have Saphire is a complete deal breaker I would have paid a lot more if it had. They can put whatever they want as a movement no use if its going to look like crap in a few years and NO they are not listening to the Market this watch doesn't even come close to the original SARB

[@LMac-ot5xb]

It does have Sapphire ;)

[@ret01101]

I have a SARB-035. It is a nice watch. Dot. I will not buy more Seiko watches because they're not worth their high price. There are a lot more watches to buy instead of Seikos. Alooot. Seiko downgrades specs and increases prices. So if you are a brand snob go with new Seikos. If you like value for your hard earned money avoid new Seikos. Just my 2 cents.

[@alexs7758]

gp sx what else could you get better than a Seiko (let’s say from a Presage line)? Please don’t say Hamilton, Tissot, Certina 😣

[@varghejo]

meh

[@praetor47]

this is NOT the SARB successor we've been waiting/asking for! why would you pretend that? yes, they're similar size, and made by Seiko, but the new one is INFERIOR in pretty much every single way, AND MORE EXPENSIVE! there are Tissots (just to name one out of a million other examples offering significantly better value for money than Seiko... and no, i'm not thinking of San Martin and other "replica brands") out there that are more "Sarb successors". an very, very dishonest from you to try and justify the price hike (for AN INFERIOR PRODUCT) when the original was discountinued last year, not 20 years ago. easily your worst video so far, by a LONG shot, and the first one i disliked. and that "ramble" of yours when you mentioned Porsche and Corvettes... ugh. that was painful to listen to. it's like you don't even understand what you're talking about and what you're trying to say. neither Porsche nor Corvette have much diverged from what their niches for like 30 years, and their prices have roughly followed inflation. none of them have tried to offer an inferior "successor" for DOUBLE THE MONEY. not one successful brand has done it. this really sounds like the ramblings of a fanboy who's trying his hardest to find excuses for his beloved's bad decisions yeah, microbrands don't have to pay for the manufacturing facility for crystals etc... that's why they pay HIGHER PRICES than Seiko does for those components. do you not understand the very basics of economy and manufacturing? that's absolute insanity, and fans are all well within their rights to be upset. glad i sold mine, and i won't be buying another Seiko ever again. pathetic

[@AverageBros]

Lol, you're a funny guy. I enjoyed reading that.

[@jefftaylor0620]

Dude.. if you can’t see that Seiko is moving it’s brand away from the economy brand to more towards the luxury tier.. you’re an idiot. And you’ll notice they’re doing more to compete with the micro brand market .. bc they’re feeling the pressure. I’m a seiko fanboi for sure.. but the value just isn’t there anymore.

[@jonirwin7316]

Meh ... Boring watches.

[@gabzy3264]

Yet clicks the video :/

[@DM-rc4yu]

@@gabzy3264 How does one know it's about boring watches without clicking :/

[@gabzy3264]

@@DM-rc4yu the thumbnail is full of text. He knows what he's clicking