On Writing: Villains [ Zuko l Joker l Watchmen l Vikings l Game of Thrones l Javert ]

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[@HelloFutureMe]

Hey everyone (and welcome to the newbies sent here from Overly Sarcastic Productions)! Question of the day: Which is your favourite boardgame? Let me know down below. Also, feel free to tell me about your villains. GET ON WRITING AND WORLDBUILDING VOL II (the book with ALL the discussions we've had + tons of extra depth and detail) I linktr.ee/timhickson Stay nerdy! ~ Tim

[@damonormsby1851]

Hello Future Me great videos can't think of any KZbinr smarter than you and also funnier than you

[@tonym5736]

*not in order* Vegeta *before be was good* Cersei Haytham kenway Joker And darth vader

[@lotus1896]

Obviously "Settlers of Catan!"

[@damonormsby1851]

Hello Future Me board games how about chest probably misspelled it but I don't really care about spelling it correctly by the way I like your hair

[@damonormsby1851]

SandySaraSofie ShadowNight chicken is my favorite food

[@rachelespiritu4215]

I’m just a bit sad at the lack of Azula mention here. There’s something to be said about her in literally every section, but the part that stands out to me most is in the idea of a villain that viewers cheer when they see defeated. By all logic, the audience should be celebrating Azula’s defeat. She’s unabashedly, unambiguously evil. She’s not morally gray, she’s not honorably motivated, she’s not even particularly likable, she has literally no redeeming qualities. Even The Beach, the designated villain backstory episode that according to every law of fiction is supposed to give her a humanizing backstory, still refuses to give her a humanizing backstory. She’s JUST a monster. And yet, her Agni Kai with Zuko isn’t portrayed as some awesome rock’em sock’em epic battle. Instead it’s somber and quiet, underscored by an orchestra rather than action music. This isn’t some grand battle of good versus evil, it’s just two siblings pitted against each other by their megalomaniacal father. And in the end, no one celebrates her defeat, neither the audience nor Zuko and Katara. There’s only pity for the hollow shell of a person she had become. And that, to me, is arguably ATLA’s greatest victory in its writing- that despite everything, they somehow evoke sympathy for this ruthless, conniving monster by reminding us that she too is just a child and a victim of abusive parenting and the cycle of war.

[@ingusch3783]

THANK YOU!!!

[@lampad4549]

Damn but was she a victim of abuse or was she always like that

[@OceanoCosmico216]

Damn man agreed.

[@VelociraptorsOfSkyrim]

@@lampad4549 She's a victim of abuse. For as long as either could remember, their father pitted each other against each other. If she hadn't grown up in such an environment, it's very likely she wouldn't have been as she was.

[@lampad4549]

@@VelociraptorsOfSkyrim that's not abuse , she enjoyed being pitted against zuko it was zuko who didn't like it. Why do people call everything abuse nowadays? If that's abuse then I was abused as well by that standard.

[@Poisonedblade]

Snow White's entire story boils down to, "Do you think she's prettier than me?"

[@AaronMcBond]

does my ass look fat in this dress?

[@CrysJaL]

Villain's motivation to kill Snow white derived from narcisism and the "need" to be the most beautiful. It's established by the iconic mirror mirror... line from the story. Snow white being alive conflicts with that need and so the motivation fo the villain is established. It's kind of basic but it is establsihed very easily.

[@Poisonedblade]

aaron Mc Bond, "LOL." I can't remember, did the mirror have to be honest?

[@jefferyallen5030]

Hahaha the funny part isnt that its true. Its that its one of the most famous and oldest fables in history. Like this shits been around for centuries and had multiple books, movies, video games, parodies.

[@Poisonedblade]

Yeah, it could easily have been, "Do these pants make me look fat?"

[@julietagimenez8065]

"I just started to play Pandemic" Ah, that hit different

[@TrioArtsOfficial]

I was about to make this same comment! :D

[@Elminster-ln4yw]

I knew this would be here.

[@inioluwaadeboye9923]

I don't think I've met one person who has watched all of ATLA that hates Zuko

[@susan2299]

Did he say he hated Zuko?

[@wakerobin9215]

@@susan2299 No he didn't say that, I believe Inioluwa is just emphasizing how much people almost universally like Zuko's character

[@sanguine7616]

I don't think I've ever heard anyone say they disliked the show.

[@xzakuro]

@@sanguine7616 i've actually heard girls say " ew avatar how do you even watch this" when i asked if they liked it

[@adnanmumin252]

@@xzakuro you should have punched them in the face immediately

[@theanti-christ2842]

Zuko is possibly one of the best characters ever in terms of his arc and redemption. As a villain he was just another bad guy, but as an overall character, one of the greatest.

[@fox_2312]

The Anti-Christ maybe I’m misunderstanding the point you were trying to make but I didn’t think Zuko was just another bad guy villain do you mean his actions during the first couple seasons or his motivation being evil

[@lampad4549]

He is great but within the last Airbender the are plenty of characters better than him in fiction

[@bartoszkrol216]

He's clearly an anti-villain turned hero, guys

[@Anti-HyperLink]

Meh

[@darencolby1916]

I think I disagree. Even as a villain he was more than just a bad guy. We see depth as early as episode 3 and then of course the episode “The Storm” which was still just season 1. What makes you say he was just another bad guy?

[@caselimor]

I personally think your LOTR dark-lord rant was spot-on.

[@jamesfitzgerald1684]

We never truly see Sauron in the books, but his threat is ever present. It feels like at any moment he could when and we are taught to fear him in the books because of the impossible task given to frodo. You really feel like at any point frodo can fail and he does fail. If it wasn't for Sam and Gollem middle earth would have been subjected to Sauron's rule.

[@JessieWard33]

I think the best hero villain differences can be summed up in the Superman Lex Luthor dichotomy and the Batman Joker dichotomy Superman and Lex Luthor both believe the world is naturally ordered and they each take a means to make that order safer, Batman and Joker on the other hand both see the world as inherently chaotic and try to prove a truth, to Joker the chaos is the truth, but Batman while agreeing that chaos is the natural order argues that the truth is that we should oppose the natural order and make things the way they should be instead of the way they are.

[@johnohara4788]

Jessie Ward this is a very underrated comment it deserves more likes

[@Somber_Knight]

The way you explained the argument between batman and the joker reminds me of my arguments with my brother... I'm Batman, of course.

[@TriMarkC]

Jessie Ward I’m sorry, but while agree entirely with your point, I had to read it a couple of times. Please, punctuation would make it so much easier to get your points across faster.

[@Mahlak_Mriuani_Anatman]

​@@TriMarkC Seems fine to me, i read it without problems

[@cooldude56g]

When I write my stories and screenplay, I always write my villains with one simple rule in mind. _"There are no villains, there are only people who are trying to solve their problems the best way they know how, with the skills and resources that are available to them."_ As a result, many of my villains don't really come to light _as_ the villain until the climax of the story.

[@danieldosso2455]

I'd never really thought of a villain that way before

[@marscaleb]

That rule reminds me of something I heard recently about addiction. It's not exactly related, but it might inspire some more rounded character writing, so... On speaking about addicts, say for example an alcoholic, their drinking isn't actually the problem, it is the solution. It is in fact, the wrong solution, but it is in fact their solution to another problem. Often, an addict's problem isn't something they understand, but whether understood or not, their addictive behavior is a way to ease some sort of turmoil or issue they don't really know how to resolve otherwise, even if the effect is only temporary, even if the effect is actually making the issue worse. Drinking IS their solution; the real problem is something else that leads them to drink. To tie this back to writing, maybe the villain just doesn't know how else to solve his problem without taking all these "evil" actions. Or maybe the villain doesn't even understand his true motivation.

[@vivvy_0]

@@marscaleb coping mechanism

[@Timri3681]

@@marscaleb Scientifically speaking; alcohol *is* a solution (sorry, and nerd joke. I felt compelled...)

[@natesmodelsdoodles5403]

I was gonna mention an anime I've seen that follows this rule excellently, but I'd not like to out myself as a normally shameless otaku without someone else giving me an opening, so until/unless someone does I'll just say that I've seen this rule go places. and start memes. ALL THE MEMES!

[@felixrivera895]

Honor.

[@daisybrain9423]

HONOOOOR!!!!

[@sannylad9204]

Honour

[@jackphillips2785]

FOR HONOUR

[@dificulttocure]

Zuko, is that you?

[@user-ke9uu5qv8b]

Felix Rivera honor

[@ameliehudini9414]

I know that Anakin is hated for his sand speech, but I really related to it when I first saw it at the age of five - just saying. Great video by the way!

[@ismirdochegal4804]

I know Hayden Christensen is disliked for his sand speech, but I don't see it that way. What's often left out when quoting, is how on Naboo everything is soft and smooth. Not only reflects his former life as a slave on a desert planet to the better life he lives now, it also compliments Padmé. For a boy with next to no friends, who is discouraged from attachments and passion, this is probable the nicest thing he could say to a girl he adores. This is absolute in character. And when you tell me that this line was not scripted, but rather Christensen came up with it on the fly, then he understood the character Anakin more than most others.

[@HasufelyArod]

You are hating, I don't blame you, the lines George Lucas wrote. And that's fine.

[@Gnarlyboi]

I always thought the problem comes in the way it was delivered. If it was a nervous inexperienced teen fumbling over his words talking to a girl he fancied the same speech could be hilariously relatable. But its played too straight. Anakin speaks like he's revealing some inner secret about himself.

[@cameronjadewallace]

I STILL relate to it. quote it every time I'm on a beach. and I moved to San Diego. soooooo

[@autisticdancer]

Never seen star wars but sand is really annoying lol.

[@siraqx844]

hatred of sand 😂

[@vivvy_0]

Gaara would be sad

[@JBzucc]

Imagine if that was the actually motivation, like the reason he leaves to go to the lava planet is to get away from sand "You bought sand here to kill ME"

[@sambarham8887]

God I hate sand

[@claireindigo1200]

SiraQx 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

Sandman would be pretty pissed off by that.

[@Beamer1969]

A villain does not need to believe he is "good" but he can not just be doing "evil" for the sake of "evil" an effective villain must at least believe that his actions are justified by his goal.

[@ArthurRex131]

Maleficent from Sleeping Beauty did evil for evil's sake and she's one of the greatest villains in fiction.

[@Beamer1969]

Richard Weatherfield iconic I would agree with but greatest? Even if you could back that claim she may the exception that proved the rule.

[@AWhite-wo9pz]

I disagree. “Some men just want to watch the world burn” is a real thing, and is fascinating to explore. When analysing a villain, I’m personally less intrigued about their motives, (because in the end, there are only so many motives out there), than about the extent they would go to to induce chaos and pain.

[@ismirdochegal4804]

@@AWhite-wo9pz After mastering Dungeons & Dragons for years the 'he does evil for the sake of evil' villain got boring. I'm more interessted in WHY does he do what he is doing. Also: why was Thanos not mentioned?

[@AWhite-wo9pz]

Ismir Dochegal I stand by my statement. There are only so many motives out there that after a while all villains will be motivated by either greed, or love, or revenge, etc. But I never said that motives are not important in the making of a villain, it is their justification for doing evil deeds after all. But what truly distinguishes villains to me are the extents each will do to achieve their goal. All are malicious, but some are more cunning, and some are more brutal. Some love to create open chaos, whereas others rule quietly in the shadows. You mentioned Thanos, but to me he’s just another conceited villain who thinks he’s saving everyone and wants things to start anew. Even though evil for the sake of evil can be bland after a while, so can any other motive, but that doesn’t make the villain less effective. Sauron (LOTR), Ozai (ATLA), and the White Witch (Narnia) are some good examples of this, I think. Their desire to dominate other living beings is quite common in villains, but their approach is nothing short of fascinating to me. But just to reiterate again because I feel like I will need to: that does not mean that I think motives are less important, I am personally just less intrigued by them.

[@AliceDiableaux]

I'm a simple woman, I see Zuko, I click (Honestly though this made me rewatch ATLA for the first time in like 3 years. It's as glorious as ever of course)

[@elroyscout]

I saw Zuko in the title and clicked. What are we actually talking about?

[@rx500android]

Christopher OBrien Same😂😂😂

[@alex73217]

Yes! Zuko is awesome and the last airbender is the best TV show ever made

[@fernsbaronia1998]

honor

[@magiv4205]

@@fernsbaronia1998 hONOR HONOR HO-HONOR HONOR HONO-HONORHONOR _HONOR_

[@julietagimenez8065]

When you get notifications from a group chat and you keep ignoring them until one looks interesting and jump into the convo like:

[@lincolnbeckett8791]

Hello Tim (Hello Future Me). I just wanted to say I am a recent subscriber and I absolutely love your channel. Your work has seriously helped me with my story writing it's unreal. It's also nice to have met another hardcore Avatar fan.

[@thestopmotionpeople9774]

I'm also brand new, and I LOVE YOUR VIDEOS!! They help me develop my ideas so much.

[@pigpower1189]

Lincoln Beckett-Scott I found him from avatar

[@vicenteortegarubilar9418]

I only read villains, joker and zuko and knowing it's a hello future me video I knew I was going to love this video......I wasn't wrong.

[@callmedylan1955]

Vicente Ortega Rubilar i was

[@johnneil3612]

The Arttic Fox why?

[@jayw900]

readed...

[@mechcannon]

Readed

[@fionnaskyborn]

I can't write a comment that would expose how much I love this series, and this episode. HOWEVER, there IS something I can do... 10:54. *inhales deeply* "Sidenote on 'dark lord' villains and _The Lord of the Rings_ : many rightfully note that 'Dark Lord' villains lack character depth because their motivations are largely reduced to want power = take power. However, it should be noted that while Sauron was a 'dark lord' type, Tolkien's analysis was not on, 'what is good and what is evil?' as many 'complex' villains supposedly explore, but it was a meta-commentary on the nature of evil itself. Tolkien made Sauron evil, but designed him in that he was a 'being corrupted from good' - a commentary on his belief that evil cannot create nor is anything born evil. It can only be corrupted. The fact Sauron's magic worked most on Men was a remark on how the tendency to sin is innate to Men, especially those with power. Most importantly, the Ring is destroyed not by the forces of good, but by Gollum's addiction that the Ring ironically caused. Good may not always triumph over evil, but evil will always destroy itself. Likewise, Frodo succumbing to Sauron's magic at Mount Doom is meant to realise that no person is immune to evil thoughts, and no man can stand against sinful desire alone. So yes! Dark Lords CAN be useful for exploring theme. Sorry for the long rant!" *pants* OKAY, THAT'S DONE. Also, +12 points for the Star Wars villain themed music before this blink scene, it's one of my favourite villain soundtracks. 👌 Bye, and thank you for this! 💙

[@HelloFutureMe]

Good catch! Thanks. I'd include it in the video, but I felt that point should be reserved for a discussion of Dark Lords. ~ Tim

[@jackphillips2785]

Hello Future Me yes please power hungry villains are one of my favourites

[@lampad4549]

Doesn't change the fact that sauran is a bland character

[@karmiya-plays]

I feel like Sauron and Mordor are not really meant to be realistic or nuanced depictions of dictators or despotic regimes. They're just a metaphor for them, and the real story is about the struggles of the people fighting against them. LOTR is about all of the free peoples of Middle Earth coming together and overcoming isolationism and prejudice in order to fight against a common foe. It's also about ordinary people (the Hobbits, who are basically just rural English people) finding within themselves the determination to fight to defend others. Tolkien may say in the forward to LOTR that he didn't intend it to be a metaphor for the war, but...I feel like there are definitely some parallels. "Let's all overcome our differences in order to defeat Hit...er, I mean Sauron!"

[@rivaldovillegas3725]

@@HelloFutureMe Could you ask yourself in the Future to talk about real life "Villains" that's a perfect way to write a Villain in a story, from Pogo the Clown to Adolf Hitler, what motivate them to do what they do?

[@underfan5275]

Can you do a video about anti heroes?

[@HelloFutureMe]

This was nearly on anti heroes! So it's definitely happening. ~ Tim

[@samwallaceart288]

QUESTION: why do you put all your best insights into 1-second frames of text instead of saying it out loud in the video? It's not like you're bound by the 15-minute time limit.

[@HelloFutureMe]

Those little side-rants are just my thoughts, but they're not fundamentally integral to the discussion, and most people watching these videos wouldn't care to hear them. It's nice that people are interested, though! ~ Tim

[@blakethompson-dodd9874]

Some kind of audio cue would be helpful, if I'm not looking directly at the screen at the exact moment those frames pop up, I end up missing them. Which is a shame because I always enjoy reading them.

[@magiv4205]

@@HelloFutureMe I can assure you that many people DO care to read them. We're watching videos on writing tips and storytelling, what could be more enjoyable than more examples?

[@dirtywhitellama]

@@HelloFutureMe I like to read them too. It's annoying that they are gone too quickly f or me to hit pause and I have to stop the video and go back and find them. But worth it

[@annakilifa331]

...I've been listening to thise videos while cleaning my bathroom, doing the dishes and so on. There are frames with text with good insights? ...damn, now I have to rewatch some stuff... 😲

[@projectnostalgia5427]

Death note explores the good guy villian alot. Where the protagonist of the story is actually the villian and the antagonist is the hero. Light Yagami the protagonist believes that justice is something that needs to served and takes it upon him self to excute the criminals which eventually leads to him killing innocents to achieve his goal. L the antagonist is the dective who sees what L is doing in itself a crime his goal is to stop him.

[@DeckKnight]

@Azarello in Light Yagami's case the protagonist you follow is the villain in the series to most of the world. His antagonists are literally the public authorities, and it's made clear they are not "dirty cops" or otherwise morally compromised in their duties. You as reader / watcher don't want Light to "win" but are consistently surprised by his tenacity, cunning, and deviousness. Watching him get further twisted and corrupted - and the end which I won't spoil - is fascinating in its own way.

[@DeckKnight]

@Azarello to me, anti-heroes are closer to something like grittier versions of Batman or The Punisher and Iwatani Naofumi from Rising of the Shield Hero. Anti-heros take actions that generally defy a traditional moral code in some way, but are fundamentally moral characters with an understandable broader moral compass. What makes Light a villain protagonist rather than an anti-hero is that even from the outset his actions require vigilante murder and set him explicitly against the police and society. The justifications and web weaved to continue these actions become increasingly more extreme as Light goes down the rabbit hole.

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

@Azarello Well, the difference between anti-heroes and villain protagonists is that most the villain protagonists challanged the obstacles for the sake of their their personal gains like wealth and fame whereas the anti-hero who lacks of heroic traits and/or tried to struggle from their flaws in order to become a hero. Yes, Light is the villain protagonist who did the right thing to do but he ended up suffer from his downfall once he is no longer who he is and the consequence is getting written to his doom. Even for Walter White, he is a villain protagonist who is a science nteacher who becomes a drug dealer, with the help of his intelligence of chemistry, who wants to help his family. But he succeed as he died to a place where he actually started: his lab.

[@Ignasimp]

@@DeckKnight i didn't like the end (I'm talking about the anime) it felt really rushed. And he made very stupid mistakes he wouldn't have done against L.

[@StarSage66]

So Future Me and Comment Section let me ask you this. Is a hero truly only as good as his villain? Can a story be saved by having a well developed and entertaining hero despite having an awful villain? Or is a good villain essential for a story to be enjoyed? ( **Marvel breathing heavily** )

[@HelloFutureMe]

Absolutely, in my opinion. Although, those are two different questions. Yes, a story can be saved despite an awful villain (though I highly doubt you can ever make a *great* story - it's just that writing is not a binary test of success or failure on any given factor in the story), and no, a hero is not only as good as his villain. If a hero was purely defined by their relationship with the villain/their conflict, then you've probably written a pretty empty hero. ~ Tim

[@StarSage66]

Good insights, I'm inclined to agree that while a *great* story needs at least a solid villain you can make a story enjoyable with just a powerful hero. For instance I'm not the biggest fan of the later Disney villains (tangled, toy story 3, etc) I don't have a problem with these villains, but I'm not wowed by them the way I am by older Disney villains. But these movies have such well done heroes that these are still some of my favorite Disney movies.

[@jackphillips2785]

Well I think that depends heavily on where your story focuses, say if you have a hero as your main character but they are stronger than your villain then the story may be boring. But if it is written in the villan's perspective then that may be quite interesting, at least in my opinion

[@ThePsiGuard]

Eh, you don't need a good villain honestly if you have compelling conflicts elsewhere in the story. Villains like Sauron, the Fire Lord and Hela are pretty basic and we know very little about them except they're evil and want to kill people to gain power. The reason stories like LotR, AtlA and Thor Ragnarok work is because the story isn't really about the hero vs the villain. LotR is about war, long journeys and temptation. AtlA is about Aang coming to terms with his past and mastering the elements. Ragnarok is about Thor recognizing his duty to his people above everything else, including his home. I love LotR and AtlA above nearly all other works of fiction, but their main villains are probably the worst parts of those stories. Sometimes all you need is a simple bad guy on the other side of the conflict so you can focus on the complexities of the rest of the story.

[@summonerstripclub4840]

while a story can stay perfectly afloat with just damn good well developed likable characters alone a damn good complex villain/villains NEVER hurts & can only improve said story

[@draconisthewyvern3664]

what makes a good villian: a good character who is in direct confrontation with the hero. competent villians are a good way to show competence or incompetence in your own hero and help create development scenarios.

[@nathanaelsallhageriksson1719]

Ah. Sand. The most powerfull of driving forces

[@alocalweeb151]

I, too, hate sand

[@Manostion]

10:54 *Hello Future Me:* "[...] realize that no person is immune to evil thoughts [...]" *Samwise Gamgee:* "Am I a joke to you?"

[@CrazyHand7894]

He wasn't immune. He was affected by the Ring when he held it, but he had it for a far shorter time than Frodo. It'd contradict Tolkien's philosophy otherwise.

[@ArcaneKeyblade]

Meruem, Hisoka, and Chrollo are all some absolutely incredible villains.

[@jeffrysmoovew2179]

Avatar is just the best story telling ever in a kids show

[@soultheconfusing9563]

Ikr greatest cartoon ever!

[@kada713]

"Good-guy" Villains AKA Anti-villains are my favorite type of character. My favorite boardgame is Clue, because we all race against my dad to find the answer.

[@wesley6594]

Ahhhhh, I love your narrative construction videos so much! I'm currently learning how to write effectively, and these are really useful.

[@shiningdawn865]

Valjean, at last! we see each other plain. Monsieur, le mayor! You'll wear a different chain.

[@rx500android]

I clicked because I saw Zuko and thought to myself "Zuko? A villain?" And then laughed out loud. BUT THEN I STAYED FOR THE I-DON'T-LIKE-SAND JOKE. And the honor ones, of course. Edit: AND FOR SHEROCK.

[@johanandhira5429]

"I hate sands" "Then you gotta love my friend, lava"

[@CodyJancaric]

Ahhh! The most helpful series for writing on KZbin. Great video as always!!

[@ZBoy-rc8zf]

you either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain

[@isitnotwrittenthat1680]

I'm living and eviling

[@peynnep6483]

or: you eihhter make a great story and becomes it's hero, or keep writing on it long enough to see your self becoming it's villian

[@peagod4925]

why does literally everyone quote this

[@nathansequeira182]

@@peagod4925 Because Harvey Dent said this. If u watched Dark kinght, u would know

[@SymphonicRainChannel]

@@nathansequeira182 It's an overrated quote

[@kaylal4926]

Dude, I have totally been struggling with my villain, so your timing is impeccable! Great video as always :)

[@diegoescobedo637]

Can you do a video on what happened to the two dragons in the last Airbender

[@lucasthompson6983]

I love that you do videos like this. I have been thinking about writing a story for a while. Just for the fun of it. I had a general idea of the how the story would go. You did that video a whipe back about the beginning of a story, and that helped me work out that part. Now I have a foundation on building the villains opposition. Thank you for these.

[@HelloFutureMe]

Best of luck with your writing! ~ Tim

[@IWoSITheDirector]

7:00 Honestly, I think that KOTOR 2 did the grey morality thing much better than "Last Jedi". Darth Traya's ideology is a great example of this.

[@kestrel7493]

Glad you brought up Waters of Mars, one of my absolute favourite dr who episodes

[@nikkilengyel]

"What's your favorite board game? I just started playing Pandemic". I guess it has become everyone's favorite board game now. That's dark, I know.

[@KingAzi-tw8nq]

I'm creating a story where the villain was the best friend of the protagonist's mentor. He wants to get revenge on the mentor for betraying him. The protagonist also has the same power as the villain and there are similarities in their childhoods. Basically, in the beginning, you hate the villain because you don't understand but through backstory, you start to understand him more and question whether the mentor was really a good guy after all. Is this a good basis?

[@hassannur9325]

👀👀 If you ever want a beta reader let me know, that sounds like a great plot

[@krgood9008]

I would add one more villain example to this, Gaunter O’ Dimm. A “good guy” Villain. Goal collect a debt Motivation unknown, could be boredom, could be showing people thier true selves Resolution help olgierd complete his tasks and lire him to the moon, or bet your own soul. The twist is he’s an npc that shares all the traits of something we take for granted, in this case a reflection.

[@StarBoundFables]

"Honour" I enjoy how you described the 5th element in writing better villains. To paraphrase: 'If the conflict's grand-scale... ensure there are important personal aspects as well'

[@WEWatch]

Love your On Writing videos Tim! You've inspired me to make my own discussing writing and storytelling :) and as you've explained, I've realized what makes either great heroes or villains is the relationship they have with each other. It's important to ensure their conflict is meaningful and that your villain isn't simply a hurdle for the hero to get through, but an experience that challenges them on a number of complex levels (e.g. ideologically, decision making, strengths and weaknesses, and lasting effect on the hero etc.).

[@jjjm7322]

I love your writing videos! Please keep at it!

[@HelloFutureMe]

Will do! Thank you so much. ~ Tim

[@stellaluna6421]

One of my favorite series is Henry Neff's The Tapestry series. It roughly follows the heroic journey of Cuchulain, an Irish hero. The first book, while enjoyable, is largely unremarkable and follows a typical middle grade story (boy finds out he's special, goes to special school, wonder, bullies, saves people from villain, etc). What makes it remarkable is what happens from the second book on. One of Cuchulain's legendary feats is one of failure. Even though he is a fantastic warrior, the men of his land are cursed at a crucial time, and he cannot defeat an entire army. Serving as a champion, he fights for his army, but the enemy army is allowed to advance while he fights, night after night until they steal the prize they came to win. In the Second Seige, the freed villain from the first book wages war to take over the world and he wins, despite the best efforts of our main cast and their undeniable power. Demons win, and the world is magically re-written. Only certain people can remember the past, most modern technology is destroyed, and humanity largely enslaved. Much of humanity lives in fear of the bloodthirsty demons and monsters that rule over them. And that's never undone. It was really amazing to watch the world fundamentally altered, because the villain really did win and the heroes lost. All the heroes can do is win better terms for humanity through negotiation, and defeat personal enemies. I was really impressed because it was a "save the world story" that failed, yet the villains were still very personal and terrifying because they played up the hero's weaknesses and hurt those he cared about.

[@panbrzoza5920]

One of the most informative videos I've ever watched. You opened my eyes on a whole new scale. Im ready now to start next draft. Thank you so much!

[@leonard-gq5eh]

I agree! Catan is so amazing 😍 Oh, and thank you so, so, so much, as always, for being for amazing and sharing your precious, precious thoughts on villains 💛

[@Wolfphototech]

*Need more photos of are glorious leader .*

[@onijester56]

"What is your favorite board game?" A lot of tabletop games utilize a board, to the point that some games which have the same form and mechanics and genre as typical 'board games' either provide each player their own board or outright lack a physical board. As an example, there's a Social Deduction game called "Secret Hitler"...each X-player 'board' is composed of two smaller double-sided boards. It's undeniable that "Secret Hitler" is a board game since it's a game with a central board. However, I absolutely love "One Night Ultimate Werewolf"...which lacks any physical board. Sure a central table-space is used most times I play to highlight the roles in the 5-minute round...but the game doesn't need this, it can be collection of the guessing-chips, doesn't have to be organized in any manner, and could be ten feet away on a different table because the table everyone is sitting at is too small to have both each player's identity-card face-down and the role-guessing-chips present. Similarly, I really enjoy the resource-collecting/management game "Istanbul" which has a central board composed of smaller tiles in a 5-by-5 square...but "Compounded" is on-par with it despite the 'tiles' being cards instead of tiles, each of which gets replaced with another from the deck when a player completes it (as opposed to Istanbul's grid being permanent). "Splendor" is a game I view as better than both "Istanbul" and "Compounded" because it integrates elements of engine-building with resource-management. And yet I actually find "Century: Spice Road" and its related "Century: Golem Edition" much better in resource-management and engine-building than Splendor or Istanbul or Compounded. However, "Century" has a single "River" of cards that a player picks up cards from...everything else centers on the player's personal board...which merely has the spots for 10 resource-amounts (i.e. spice cubes in the former, gems in the latter). If this counts as a "board game", I would strongly say that even if your dog ate the player-boards (and thus you have no boards at all) it should still count as a "board game" (despite there being no more board for the game). And this doesn't get into the likes of the deck-builder "Legendary" (which has a general layout, on a foldable mat that isn't necessarily necessary and also can be different for each theme; the Marvel and Firefly sets use different names for parts of the layouts, and have slight differences in where things are or where things go...and cards in the theme-sets often reference the specific things on the associated map. But using one map for a different theme or not using a map at all aren't against the rules as far as I remember) or party-type games such as "Bang" or "Cash n Guns" with a central stock of things between the players but few to no actual boards/mats/etc. ----- The net result being that sometimes what some people call or consider board games don't actually have boards...which leads other people to not consider them board games because, duh, no board. So do you refer to the purist "it must have a board" or the loose-leaf interpretation of not necessarily using a board?

[@mskiptr]

6:45 This is why i love so much 'The Incredibles 2'. Not only the main villain motivations exist, but they also make perfect sense - when you watch it you can actually agree with the villain what's good and should be done. Even further, every single time when government/antagonist/police/the agency/... take a decision that feels nasty to the main character(s), it's explained and justified so well that it starts to feel right.

[@davidbergfors6820]

I am a fan of "Risk" I've had many hours of fun with friends thoughout the years with that one. You have given me things to ponder, thank you!

[@viperblitz11]

Number 6. You don't need a majorly complex and sympathetic/understandable villain. It's perfectly alright to have a Disney villain if it's appropriate to the plot. There's beauty in simplicity.

[@rachelm9046]

well researched and well done

[@DarienSmartt]

Every single one of your writing videos teaches is me something new about how to approach storytelling. They are so well done and enjoyable. Thank you! I have a great love for the game Mysterium. It's like Clue, but with ghosts and abstract art.

[@Sir_Ahno]

Also with the "Waters of Mars" episode the "villain" if it can be called that is a water based virus. While it shows some level of understanding once it has taken over a host it feels throughout the episode more like a force of nature than some sentient being, and we are only occasionally reminded that this thing has the sense to direct the hosts toward its goal of making it to Earth. (I haven't seen the episode for a bit so I could be off on that but as far as I remember that was the impression I had of the water virus).

[@andrewpowell2418]

Risk is my favorite board game

[@greattower1650]

X3

[@greedyb45t3rd2]

1. If you like Risk I highly recommend axis and allies and diplomacy. Both are really great games. 2. Boardgame is one word

[@NiRudraws]

I ain’t gonna lie. I came here for Zuko and it’s cracked me up to hear the HONOUR part 😂

[@nuclearshinigami7743]

Solid thoughts. Also THIS is why I love Prince of Persia Warrior Within so much. Under all the high-octane action there is a really layered hero-villain dynamic with the same goals driving the Prince and Kaileena against eachother. With the gray morality and the question of wether fate can or cannot be changed.

[@tymki]

Just wanted to know that both me and my mum really love your stuff - and this video really helped her out. Thanks for everything. :D

[@Janoha17]

10:54 is also incredibly applicable to the Sith in Star Wars. Every time the Jedi and Sith go to war, the Sith inevitably destroy themselves with infighting. Naga Sadow was attacked by a rival at a crucial moment; Freedon Nadd had his spirit destroyed by Exar Kun; Malak attacked Revan while the latter was in the middle of a duel with a Jedi strike team; In Star Wars The Old Republic, the Sith Classes spend more time killing other Sith Lords than they do fighting Jedi, leaving the Bounty Hunter to carry practically the entire Empire (Of the final bosses for each act, the Sith Warrior fights a Jedi Master in Act 1, a member of the Dark Council in Act 2, and their former Master in Act 3; The Inquisitor fights their own master in Act 1, a member of the Dark Council in Act 2, and takes down said councilor for good in Act 3. Meanwhile on the Jedi side, all their final bosses are Sith Lords/Possessed Jedi/Sleeper Agents/The Sith Emperor) Long story short: Good wins because evil is too busy screwing itself over to spite their rivals (hell, the Bounty Hunter's story on Balmorra involved actively helping the enemy to make the clients' rival look incompetent).

[@excusezmoi9823]

Hey I'm pretty sure that's one of the morals in lord of the rings

[@Little1Cave]

One video game villain I’ve recently started to appreciate more and more is the villain of Trigger Happy Havoc: DanganRonpa. I’ll try not to give away their identity or the specifics of their motivations since this is a murder mystery game (think of Saw if it played like Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney. Lol) so I’ll refer to them as the robotic mascot they control and speak through named Monokuma. So basically Monokuma has trapped these highly talented high school students and forces them to participate in a “killing game”. By committing a murder without the other classmates exposing them in a subsequent investigation and class trial, they get to be released from this prison. Otherwise, they are brutally executed. So it’s easy to see that Monokuma is a very active villain as they are the one who put you and the other characters in this situation, often manipulating character’s actions through various “motives” when bored. One thing Monokuma doesn’t do however is impede the characters’ investigation about their identity and why they’re doing this to begin with, sometimes leaving little breadcrumbs towards the right direction. Why do this? Well for one, Monokuma’s motivations are based on a selfish desire to cause and spread misery. That’s what gives Monokuma’s life meaning and would otherwise be overwhelmed with boredom, suggesting severe psychological issues. Monokuma also believes that the worst kind of despair comes from having your biggest hopes crushed. Monokuma wants to slowly lead these students to the truth of their situation because he/she knows that it will devastate them and leave them hopeless. I’m not going to go into what this truth is as I want others to play this game though, but it really works from a thematic standpoint. From a game that encourages you to get to the truth by solving every murder that happens, it would make sense that the villain would be someone that believes that, sometimes, you might not want to know the truth. So yeah... I highly recommend playing it. The characters are great, the soundtrack is kickass, and it’s absolutely bonkers and insane and I love it. XD

[@LeBingeDoctor]

Again a masterclass in writing. Thanks you Tim!

[@BinkyvsBunson]

I learn how to write my skits when you publish videos like this. And I literally wear the one ring around my neck... you use examples that I relate to when writing, examples in film I’m drawn to like the Dark Knight or Lord of the Rings and Game of Thrones... you put into perspective WHY I’m drawn to these stories and for that, I thank you 🍻

[@obviouslyPSM]

Excellent “dark lord” aside. And I’m fairly new to the channel but I love the inclusion/juxtaposition of various stories. Also, avatar and GOT for the win!

[@Baggythebeast]

I think for as long as I live I won't see something that disturbed me as much (coming from a tv show) as that FullMetal Alchemist episode.

[@epicwalrus7183]

Still not over that, don't think I ever will be either. Arakawa is such a damn master.

[@waywardkrow2731]

Another great vid! ^_^ I love those 1-second-image-rants, btw!

[@d.l.232]

Love your videos!

[@vigilantsycamore8750]

As a fanfic writer, this is a really useful video to me. I've managed to make some of my villains more compelling, but not many. I get the sense that this is going to come in useful once the conspiracy stuff gets started. Thanks for making this video, Tim. I have one question, though: What about using villains to show what the hero could become if they're not careful? Like if they started out as a hero similar to the protagonist but got more villainous over time? I've started doing that with my Batman fanfics: I reimagined Falcone as someone who got into crime as part of a plan to take down a mob boss, but ended up having to become a mob boss himself just to keep order; Falcone warns Batman to be careful not to turn out the same way and also compares Batman to a different vigilante who's willing to use guns and lethal force. Said vigilante shows up later. I'm bringing the same theme up in the sequel with Two-Face, and further down the road it will be my approach to Batman's conflict with Ra's al Ghul as well.

[@kaiavery6027]

I'm a simple girl. I see Zuko, I click.

[@thesunforest5178]

This is SO INCREDIBLY good story telling advice, I cannot stress that enough! Everyone who wants to write a story, a book, a movie, a theater play or whatever can learn SO MUCH here. I‘m writing a fantasy novel and I have more than just one villain - which I acutally just realized by watching this video. And the antagonists I use also are very different in terms of motivation and similarity with the hero. OMG I‘m so hyped right know I just LOVE storytelling xD Thank you for the awesome work, this is literally SO GOOD and detailed informtion (and I need to calm the f down right now :D)

[@matthewcummings1300]

Love the content in your videos! Just now discovering your channel as I’m writing my villains’ and heroes’ motivations into my epic fantasy. My personal favorite board game (for two players) is War of the Ring by Ares, and for more than two players my favorite board game is Blood Rage by CMON.

[@kimathitalton8709]

Reminder: Zuko alone and the southern raiders

[@lonelyaura]

"the best villains are the ones the readers cheer when they see defeated" It's pretty easy to think of plenty of opposite examples. Azula from Avatar: The Last Airbender is a good one! Another is Marlene from The Last of Us.

[@MyGamerView]

My favorite board game is Go, also. Loved the topic of discussion. Thank you for making these videos.

[@Mrsuperguyinasuit]

Loved the rant

[@GeassStudioR2]

Favorite board game is life

[@johnneil3612]

i like flat earthers

[@Vensris]

It's got to be Betrayal at House on the Hill for me

[@noodlepudding3464]

Thank you so much! This helped my DnD campaign a whole lot! I felt like my villain needed something. Now I feel like I know my villain on a personal level. This will make them so much easier to write!

[@gethbond]

That's a great video! Thank you! It's been a while since I last played any board game (a month), but we usually play Terraforming Mars + expansions, Scythe + expansions, Wingspan, 7 Wonders + expansions and now, The Climbers.

[@Kareszkoma]

I like multi-dimensional villains. I like deep, but also wide spectrum characters. I like to know that a villain, likes ice-cream, and hates crime when in civil. Because crime disturbs his good time. But when he is in villain mode, I like how they are the Villain. It's like the villain has a duty, a job, a motive. He becomes this 1 dimensional character to get to the end of his doing. But that 1 dimensional character, shouldn't rob him of his personality, or his humanity.

[@ghostofdeath7388]

One dimensional villains can be good written as long they are written properly such as johan liebert and joker they're simplistic but still good villains

[@Kareszkoma]

I wouldn't say it like that. The joker has a way of how he does things. It would be like saying he is 1 dimensional, but with a width.. which is just 2 dimensional.

[@ghostofdeath7388]

@@Kareszkoma watching the world burn and killing for fun aren't motivation that's typical villain shit and certainly not best motivations he ain't bad but he's simplistic in the golden age he was just evil the comics code authority cut off joker's balls in the silver age in the bronze age he was nuts in the modern age he's more flat than round he does it for entertainment.

[@Kareszkoma]

I'm not sure about that. I was really not there, and I'm certain I have not read that much comics about joker. I mean more like his generality as a person. Lex Luthor is a villain with a suit, strong character, and a businessman. Thats who he is. The joker is none of that. He likes style and class, but that is more for his entertainment than for business. These little things, sometimes bigger things, that make a character round.

[@ghostofdeath7388]

@@Kareszkoma gimmick doesn't make a character round johan is stylish and succesuful politician yet still flat

[@liliallen6439]

One of the villains in my story is definitely more of an active villain, in a way, where she's thinking "I know I'm a "bad guy" but I don't really care. I deserve to be a "bad guy" because they were all "bad guys" to me." So she knows she's being "evil" in a sense, but she thinks she's justified. I'm looking for thoughts and tips for how to improve this.

[@demonicanna7191]

I'm not an expert either, but we can discuss about our villains because I have written a book with the protagonist being a villain but redeeming themselves. She has pretty much the same motivation as yours and there's also one "big" villain (another kind of villain), so I would be interested in hearing more of your character and story :) Maybe that'll help both of us to optimize our characters (I have to edit my book though, it's only the first draft lol)

[@raphaelrodgers7407]

@@demonicanna7191 I have the same type of main character in my story.

[@kezran4976]

I’ve needed this since I’ve been stuck on a villain’s motive in my third book. Good refresher and got me out of my writer’s block

[@Strashoy]

This is totally amazing. Thanks for all.

[@caribou3692]

any board game is my favorite board games.

[@hockeater]

Disagree. Sorry is a terrible game.

[@Volosous]

Ah, game of thrones, my favorite villain

[@shadowofdancingleaf]

Hi, Tim. Been watching your videos for a while and enjoying them greatly, especially your "On Writing" series. This video particularly was really good, but I wanted to say specifically that you had a great side note there on how the "dark lord" trope in Lord of the Rings worked to bring about a larger theme on the nature of evil. I'd never considered it that way before (maybe because I've only read The Hobbit and LotR, not the Silmarillion), and it was a really brilliant bit of analysis that added even more depth and appreciation for Tolkien's worth. Well worth pausing for!

[@derekhogan9685]

A great villain with depth that left an impression on me was Vergil from Devil May Cry 3. His motives neither filled with malice nor necessity, just his drive for power.

[@dificulttocure]

The point of all this is that Zuko is the best villain ever written.

[@oneofnine9831]

I just saw that episode of Full Metal Alchemist, and that villain shocked me to the core! I was so disgusted and saddened. R.I.P little four year old girl/happy dog

[@lotus1896]

Great video, Tim!

[@gabriellehonda3379]

That title card aside about Sauron as a Dark Lord in LoTR is excellent! Don't apologize for the "long rant", that's gold right there!

[@nanalove3819]

One of the best example of "good guy villain" I see is in the game Fire Emblem : Three Houses. We can play four path in this story, and everytime I think "well, this character isn't wrong", no matter if it is a "villain" or a "hero" (except with Rhea maybe, but I can't stand Rhea, some other people agree with her so...). Sometimes their goals are in conflict, sometimes they are similar but the method differs, but everything is understandable. And that makes the game heartbreaking when in the end, one path has to win on the other. And I think this is interesting because of what you say in this video : it is beyong the concept of good or bad. I don't think the "villain" in this game think she is good, but surely she think she is right. And that's how the game works : not a battle between good or bad, but a battle between different vision of the world ans of justice.

[@chongwillson972]

Hello Future Me hey , can you take a look at a certain "magic" system which is the nen system of hunter x hunter .

[@karlazeen]

Yeeeeeeeeeees!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@Moonstar79]

Really, the best kind of villain is just the one that makes the viewer/reader think and feel, just like any other type of character.

[@JollyRancherGeno]

I appreciate your use of The Waters of Mars as an example in several of your videos. To me, it is (with exception of the obligatory running scenes) one of the best-written episodes, and is my favorite episode.

[@tonym5736]

Amazing video i love ur channel keep up all thhe awesome work 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👌🏻👍🏻

[@boredfangerrude]

You're an author right? You have too much knowledge on writing to waste it.

[@sporeham1674]

I’m pretty sure he’s writing a book!

[@shen_jiunong]

My favorite game is the black eye (similar to D&D) and I use your tips on writing to better my adventures for my group of players to enjoy. Thank you and keep up the good work

[@myhandle365]

The commentary @ 10:53 was wonderful. Thank you for adding it. :]