Once More Doubting my Sanity in this Lovely Hobby - Advice Needed.

[@paulflyer8891]

Hi Paul, just to let you know, I'm coming from 25 years as a train driver and 5 years as a signalman. For your dilemma regarding the points on the platform roads. Points are very expensive to lay and also to maintain, so where possible the railway will do without points wherever possible. On a dead-end platform out in the sticks where there is not likely to be any other locomotives around, then there would be a set of points to allow the loco to run around the coaches and make the return journey. However, where your station is located, i.e. a depot close by and a lot of infrastructure close by, the likelihood would be that the platform, and probably, the sidings, would not have a crossover as a loco would be sat either in a headshunt or in the depot. So, the train would come in and finish it's journey, the loco would be uncoupled and the other loco would come out of the headshunt or from the depot and attach to the other end and take the train on the return journey. The loco that had brought the service in would then shunt out to the headshunt or depot and it would all happen again on the next service. This is why the railway loved the advent of multiple units. No need for two loco's and, more importantly, for two crews! I hope this has been of help and at least you can do away with the points in the awkward positions if you want to and still be perfectly realistic. If there is anything else you need any help on, please don't hesitate to contact me.

[@FredWilbury]

The best advice here I think sir , my two pennies worth making the layout too complicated it’s just meant to be fun. Fred

[@andrewrobb7113]

Surface mounted motors or wire in tube operation. You could also extend the platform a foot or so with small alterations where the boards join before the start of the platform. Regardless, you’ve got an amazing layout. All the best and thank you for your contribution to the hobby.

[@robertstrainset6556]

Hi Paul, I do think that we need to keep all avenues open so that there are as many ways to run the trains so here are my thoughts:- 1-You have said that you have deceided to not take your boards apart except after big changes so leave the crossover points where they are and when the time comes one point is scrap. 2-You cannot get a point motor under the board so as it is said in other comments use rods to another part (the edge) of the board were a point motor can go or just as I have done on my new end to end layout have a knob and do it manually. 3- If there is even on the edge not enough room and you want motors just add an extra bit of board just big enough to take them and the wiring should be ok to. 4- Doing this will allow you to run around the train and frees up the arriving loco to be at the other station ready to return as you want. 5- If you want a longer train and not be able to run around then another loco can come from your engine shed and take it away. 6- You will say I cannot do rodding as cannot fit it under the layout (unlike mine) then put it on top and it will be hidden by the ballast/station there are YT videos on this have a look. Good luck its a hobby do as you want and enjoy. Its a shame you missed GETS as was far better this time around but I was pleased to meet you and Julian last year at the meet up (but only just!!!) and this years was even better. Good luck with what ever you do but ENJOY. Cheers Robert.

[@Sandlingjunction]

Some well-made points, Robert, thank you. Would love to have been at GETS, time was not on my side this year cheers P

[@owenllewellyn5692]

If you remove the run around points you could incorporate a station pilot 0-6-0, a headshunt well placed to access all platforms and a couple of 4+ carriage long storage sidings. At Swansea station the layout is similar and in the 70s, 80s they had carriage sidings outside the station. An 08 was used for reversing carriages out to storage and so leaving the road clear for the locos to run light to Landore depot just beyond the station. It would be operationally interesting too.

[@wamgoc]

Hi Paul, you do seem to be over thinking it a little! Do away with the points. One loco brings the train into the station, uncouples. A second loco comes out of the shed to take the train back to its other destination. There it uncouples. A third loco, which is stored near the second station, couples to the front of the train and drives it back. In the mean time the first loco goes onto the shed and is either swopped or made ready for the return journey. Likewise the second loco at the second station does the same! A very interesting plan for operation! You may have to find a sided near the second station, for refuelling. Show that please.

[@briandunning2974]

My thoughts exactly. This is simple. In real life in t he 60s, at Kings Cross , the first loco steamed up to the buffers. Another loco came from the shed, ready reversed, and took the train out again. Then the original loco went to the shed for servicing and turning. Otherwise read the articulate explanation above. 😊

[@alyro-ls1dv]

wamgoc, yes, this is what the railways do on traffic from and to a terminus. On rural stations with a lot of (cheap) space behind the platform you find passing tracks and this headroom for pulling the loco away. In towns with a terminus where all the passengers and staff move in front of the trains and in the expensive hall there is no space for runaround tracks and the depot is not far away anyway. Because this is a lot of manouver, machinery, drivers and staff anyway railways nowadays love cabs on passenger trains on both sides like in multiple units, in the old days autocar on one end und through stations in general. But what do we have? No railway which is trying to save money and time but lots of fun driving interesting manouvers. There is no reason to save time if we want to spent time. To me it rather looks like a wonderful little shunting puzzle more than a problem in trackplanning. Paul will fix this, I'm confident.

[@Sandlingjunction]

@@alyro-ls1dv Thank you so much and for the confidence shown, cheers P

[@Sandlingjunction]

@@briandunning2974 Thank you, Brian, very kind and point well made cheers P

[@Sandlingjunction]

After reading many points made so far I am thinking you are spot on with the remark, cheers P

[@mathewdickenson4908]

Hi Paul! To keep the points, I would cut out a rectangle of the base board top around both points and track and even a little longer. Make a new one piece of base board top with the points mounted to it. Underneath this use MBT MP10 point motors for clearance and create a long lead for the wiring. Add some lips around the existing base board to hold the new board with points. Reattach the rails to each side of the new drop in piece and all you will need to do now is hide it with scenery. Hope this helps. I think Charlie had to do this option once too!

[@Sandlingjunction]

I am thinking of these options, it is a good option to follow. cheers P

[@henrybest4057]

A rare, yet prototypical, answer could be a sector plate at the end of your platfotms. Sheerness-on-sea had one before the electrification of the branch. If you keep the points you could motorise them from a distance by using wire-in-tube. The motors could be mounted at the front edge of your baseboard with a small extension. As others have mentioned, a station pilot would have been used if there were no other means for the loco to get around it's train. Platform 1 for arrivals and platform 2 for departures.

[@Sandlingjunction]

A great idea, Henry, thank you cheers P

[@davidcook380]

Hi Paul , I have been following you for years now and love your channel and the way you come clean about your issues . The points issues is very similar to the issue l once had were l had no room for motors .A very good friend of mine was into RC Planes and told me about Control Snakes which are used to control the flaps in RC Planes . Basically they are a small diameter plastic tube with a star profile inner rod , These can be hidden so easily in ballast etc because of the star shaped rod there is very little friction so the operation is super smooth. l had a small crank arm at the point end and the point motor at the other , They are available in long lengths and just cut to size , You can have your motor and wiring anywhere you want . It worked a absolute treat and never let me down , The motors are all out of sight and simple surface mounts are used. Regards David

[@Sandlingjunction]

That's a great call David, and thank you, cheers P

[@Harp-House-Halt]

Hold fast Paul, building a layout is full of compromises, stick to your existing design and except that not every module can be removed easily. You have already said they are very heavy so just accept there is a point over a joint. ALSO consider using surface mounted point motors where access to below is an issue. If you want to avoid solenoid PMs use MTB MP1 - 10 range of Point Motors from DCC Train Automation like Charlie Bishop has used in similar situations... Regards, Dave. p.s. do consider the Viaduct and sorry to hear you have had some nasty comments, just ignore and delete them.

[@Sandlingjunction]

Thank you for that, and yes will ignore them cheers P

[@tonyhill6296]

Paul, Keep the crossover. My solution to your problem crossover pair of points is to make this section of double track track ‘modular’ on the surface of the baseboard. That is to say a double track configuration that includes the crossover mounted on a strip of cereal packet card and ballasted. This double track module is aligned by rail joiners on each of the four pieces of track. Power is supplied via a pair of 4 pole DIN sockets at the edge of the baseboard. I fix the module to the baseboard with ‘copydex’ which if needing to lift will release easily. Points are switched via surface mounted point motors, concealed under the platforms. I’ve designed a SPST switch to attach to the standard Peco surface mount point motor and use this to switch a 12v coil mini relay also under the platform to switch the point frog. Good Luck with SJ Two. T🚂

[@Sandlingjunction]

Thanks, Tony, I understood almost lol, the electrics for me, it is a nightmare, but I will look into your thoughts, cheers P

[@tonyhill6296]

Hi Paul, Happy to share my frog switching method via a couple of pictures and sketch wiring diagram if you want to take my design concept a stage further. t🚂

[@glennmorris8386]

Good evening Paul, Stop beating yourself up, the options of if you keep the turnouts where they are, means that they sit on the board joint, therefore one way out, would be to fit the turnouts onto a thin base board of thier own, that, then sits on the existing baseboard, the joins of the streight ends being connected to the main lines using the dcc consepts track joiners, thus other than realignining the main track height to match that of the points, not a problem in the station itself after the points as whatever the point baseboard height adds i.e 3mm then that is then placed under the track, the same occurs on the station approach but obviously will require a slight gradient to take the level back to the original approach track height. Point opperation could be done using surface mount point motors like the Hornby type, given that they would be mostly hidden under the platforms, assuming that you intend that they can be lifted off, the leads powering the feeds and power to the turnouts have the cabling feed through holes in the main baseboard, but fitted with small plug connectos that then fit the main cabling under the board, thus then the track section of the points is independent of the main baseboard , simply lifts out when needed. However, the problem of locomotives being trapped in a terminus station is the reason why all passenger services today are basisally regardless of whether it is a local commuter service or an intercity sevice basically a multiple unit train, when I was a youngster back in the late 60's early 70's many an hour spent in London at St. Pancfas, Kings X, Euston and Paddington, it was the locomotive brought its train into the turminus up to the buffer stops, would uncouple, then another locomotive would draw in at the other end, couple up to the train, having collected the engine numbers and photograghed them with my box browny camara, wait for departure time to follow along the platform so as to watch the as the rear Locomotive push, to assist the locomotive train engine haul out of the station, with the engine having banked from the rear stopping at the station starter signal, the signalman having placed it back to on or danger (Siop), then await for his route to be set by the signalman to be released back to the MPD. Therefore if you obmit the points then a locomotive can quite protypically opperate in that manner, you said at the begging of this vidio, you have more than enough locomotives, so if the locomotive taking your train out cannot run round at the other terminus using 4 locomotives to opperate a train would add to the play value and enjpyment, Personally I would try the minor baseboard under the points keeping them where they are. with the alternative being available if my attemps to fit the secondary baseboard failed. All the best. above all enioy your trains and playing with them. Just remember what stresses you today, you will have forgotten about it in six months time. Glenn.

[@Sandlingjunction]

Great points Glenn thank you I will look hard inti your suggestion, cheers Paul

[@paulwhittaker-bush]

loose the 2 points at the front as you are thinking.put a headshunt over the other side of the single line bridge where you can park a loco which can reverse onto the coaches to remove them after uncoupling the loco that brought the train in.that loco can then be run out.this was very common operation in terminii.you will have more length for longer trains and you get more operational interest.

[@Sandlingjunction]

Thanks Paul I will look at that idea closely cheers P

[@paulmarmion358]

Waffle as much as you want your videos are very enjoyable 👍

[@Sandlingjunction]

Jolly kind of you Paul, cheers P

[@katielucas3178]

(Caveat: Wargamer here, not model railwayer) I think your problem with the board splitting is that you're running the splits across the rails instead of along the rails. This section could be (say) 4 strips, each of which holds 2 rails. The joins would then be under the platforms, or in earth humps between the pairs. They'd be long sections but would then be liftable, and as long as you can get them in and out of the room, could be taken away to be worked on. The complicated point junctions at the head of the sidings could then be another section. Since you've got to have point-motor clearance underneath, they would be room for 1/2 inch wood bracing along the panels (either a long H or a box) to stop them bending and then the ends would screw onto the vertical supports (You could probably fit threaded inserts into the supports and then use bolts through the board rather than rely on screwing into wood. Terrain (stations, buildings, ballast piles, bushes etc) would conceal the joins.

[@Sandlingjunction]

Thank you, Katie, all good ideas, but now those baseboards are made and in place the cost and disruption would be immense and costly, but small section hole cutting may well work, thanks again and cheers P

[@petersemus4643]

In real operation, steam specials often have a diesel on the rear. That would sort it and/or extend the length of the station yard to the right.

[@treinenliefde]

My thoughts about some of the things you've talked about. Locomotive operations at terminus stations: It is a common method of operation at larger terminus stations to have another locomotive couple up to the other end of a train. In the UK I know they did this at least at Kings Cross and Lowestoft, here in the Netherlands at Zandvoort and at Paris Gare du Nord they still do this with loco hauled services. So that is not a problem. In fact rakes to and from Kings Cross could be stabled at Finsbury Park overnight, a distance of about 2.4 miles from the station! One locomotive would bring the train in, either the previous main line locomotive if it arrived from another destination or a shunter if from the carriage sidings and a main line locomotive, fueled and rotated would pick it up from the other end. Trains would be cleaned and prepared at the platform like how they still do it today but with the locomotive that brought the train into the station waiting at the buffers till departure. I think you can still see this with the Caledonian Sleeper at Euston. One Class 92 brings the train into the station and another couples up to the other end. After depature the other locomotive is free to get back to the storage sidings. Zigzagging from the carriage sidings to a platform I don't know if zigzagging a carriage set is common in the era you're modelling since I doubt they had wireless communication between locomotive crews and shunters, but at least in modern settings I know they do this in Switzerland, I believe Zurich? You'd have the shunter holding a brake valve on the pushing end looking out of the corridor connection and giving signals to the driver via walkie-talkie. I think you should be fine with shunting carriage rakes like that. They did this with wagons so I think it should be fine with coaches as well. Luggage van placement Around 26:00 you mention where you should place the luggage van. You'd often find it at the near end for the 'important' station. So if your terminus is the 'important' station for the service, you'd have the luggage van near the entrance. Is that at the buffer end, place the luggage van there. Do you have a side entrance with access via level crossings for station staff beyond the platform ends, then the luggage van would be at the outer end. For local services it wouldn't be weird to have a luggage wagon (although then usually a brake second or something) in the middle of the train. That way it would be closest to station buildings placed beside the track, common on branch lines. I'm unsure how this was done with coaching stock in the Southern Region, since I think they used fixed rakes there? But ideally you'd also have your first class nearest to the entrance of the station, unlike nowadays where you might spread first class over the entire length of a train. General two or three locomotive operations based on your layout 27:35 Yess, that would be a logical way for your layout! Admittedly this would be odd in real life, but who says that locomotive following the service isn't a loose locomotive doing whatever? If you want to store locomotives at the station having a couple of headshunts or sidings would not be weird! You could for example have headshunts at both stations and do this operation I outlined below. A train would depart from the terminus with locomotive A and arrive at the branch line station. There locomotive B, waiting on a siding at the branch line station would pick up the train and take it back. Then locomotive A would move to the siding. Locomotive B would pull the train into the terminus and is now stuck. Then locomotive C, waiting on a siding near the terminus station would pick up the carriages and then the cycle repeats itself. Locomotive C takes the train to the branch line station freeing up locomotive B that now goes to the storage siding at the terminus. At the branch line station locomotive A couples up and brings the train to the terminus etc. if you have the space for a short locomotive siding at both stations I would do that. Entirely prototypical across multiple era's and hopefully fun to operate if you're not automating the layout. If you're running steam you can of course have the locomotive be rotated. I was going through the layout plan as shown on the Station Road channel, and couldn't you have run arounds at the branch line station? Then you could run around your train and pull it into the terminus. Admittedly this might look odd for a large steam express locomotive but with smaller locomotives or with diesels no problem. Bulleid Light Pacifics ran in reverse without problem on branch lines.

[@Sandlingjunction]

Thank you for all that great info, I will digest and see how to use it well, cheers P

[@bobainsworth5057]

Peko has a surfaces mounted poit solenoids. Oart #pl11 or 12. It runs on 16v AC, doesn't have extra switches for signals or frog wiring. They snap onto Peko🎉 points. If you don't like the looks,you can always cover with scenery. As for the crossovers , how about extending the two rails to the left and move points to the left onto other section. Moving the cross over to the right really isn't a bad idea. If you use serface mounted when you take down thr layout removing the points won't be hard at all.

[@SW2Paul]

Put 3rd rail in and run EMU or DEMU so no need for run round loops for passenger services this would aid operational realism the shed area would still be used for loco movements as required it could also be used for stabling your multiple unit stock

[@Sandlingjunction]

Had been on my mind, but want steamers in there too, lol so may employ a pilot on a head shunt as people are suggesting, cheers PO

[@steviefilm]

The points are of no use in the middle of the station. Make the loop at least four coaches plus loco. Maybe the bridge should be wider and start the station and siding fan there but also add a head shunt as others have suggested. Could two platform lines plus a central loop line fit? Would allow two trains and still allow run around capability. The auto shuttle could be engaged for your EMUs. Good luck

[@Sandlingjunction]

Thank you Steve, a few issues relating to space, but will look at what you say, cheers P

[@graemewilson4126]

By cutting the baseboard, outside cork underlay and the SET of points, the same shape as the PAIR OF POINTS, where the saw cut is you can glue on the cut edge, on the baseboard some styrene sheet, as for the BUS WIRES and other wires running the length can be put into a set of TRAILER COUPLINGs for each end, along with PUSH PULL wire inside Styrene Tube for controlling the points, when it comes time for LANDSCAPING, have some NEWSPAPER in between the ???? DIARAMA and the layout

[@Sandlingjunction]

Thank you, Graeme, Think I get that, will look into it further , cheers P

[@BobTodd-t6e]

Hi Paul it's me again, I've watched some more of your vid and would recommend for you to look up "minories" which is Cyril Freezers answer for small layout terminus with no escape pointwork. It's totally prototypical however you would require a station pilot engine to draw off the coaching stock to release the loco for turning etc. Coaching Sidings would be preferable to hold the coaching stock until the next roster or surface motors as per my previous notes Bob T

[@Sandlingjunction]

Thank Bob, yes I will look cheers P

[@leewall8230]

Some great solutions posted above, my advice step back , take a minute, go do another job , think about it and see what settles.

[@Sandlingjunction]

Thanks, Lee, almost certainly what I shall be doing, cheers P

[@paulmurrell9823]

you could mark out where the platform is going ,put a set of surface points motor under the platform with a wire in a tube going to the points..

[@BobTodd-t6e]

Hi Paul the solution is pretty easy use surface mounted point motors and locate them under the platforms. Dcc trains automation HTP MP1 or HTP MP4 which have the builtin decoders Bob T

[@Sandlingjunction]

Thinking this may be a way forward, cheers P

[@johnmarshall2660]

Hi Paul, I'm in the throws of rebuilding my layout to represent Sheffield Midland Station and I have a North Board a Central Board and a South board and apart from long run tracks all my points I used track screws so I can easily take up ... I'm also using iTrain so I can eventually go Automatic ... I'm at the stage most of my track is laid and point servo's and block/feedback detection works ... Regards John

[@barryturner2916]

Hi Paul, I went to Folkestone exhibition on the Sunday from about 11:30 till 13:45 had a good time with the intension of buying some paints (which I did) but brought a Salmon wagon from Flangeways, a propelled control vehicle for my Royal Mail train and items for the farm area so in all I spent a lot more, 😂. With regard to your station trackwork, I would as you said do away with the two points but put a point to the right (as we look at it) as far as possible with a short piece of track so it did not effect the platform size or length to house a station pilot to pull the train out of the station, leaving the loco at the buffers and once train is clear of station drive that loco into the small siding left by the pilot so could then be used to pull the next train and so on , hope this makes sense. I have a two tier layout and because of the issues like you have fitted Peco point motors directly to the points but placed a small piece of stiff paper between the motor and point with a small hole for movement of the rod, this helps with the ballasting (at a later date) preventing it dropping through. Take care regards Barry.👍

[@Sandlingjunction]

Thanks, Barry, that's all good ideas are now forming nicely, sadly missed you at Folkestone, cheers P

[@barryturner2916]

@@Sandlingjunction Hi Paul if your planning to go next year (nearer the time) perhaps we could meet up regards Barry.

[@philipcooke9457]

Meant to to say side, surface mounted point motors

[@Sandlingjunction]

lol yes hidden possibly under the platforms, cheers P

[@paulwhittaker-bush]

p.s. to my previous comment.if you are not dcc operation,your will have to put in switchable dead ends at the buffers to hold the first loco until the train has been removed from section.

[@Sandlingjunction]

happily DCC Paul , cheers P

[@eaglesfly5236]

Looks to me as if you need to a new section of baseboard inserted on the right taking it up to near the pillar. Then redesign the station track to take advantage of the extra space. Regarding the point motors problem,. Why do the points need to be powered? Simple push/pull rods could be utilised from the baseboard frame edge with a cam operating a switch for frog polarity if required.

[@Sandlingjunction]

Not thought of that , thank you, cheers P

[@DavidWebster-p5r]

hi paul listening to your problem why not have a head shunt at the other end with a engine wait to return to the station and leave the second engine in the head shunt to return with next train

[@Sandlingjunction]

High, David, yes it does seem to be the best idea overall and think I will look at this option, cheers P

[@andrewbrown4985]

If you are having clearance issue with infrastructure under the baseboard then try using the MP1 or MP5 Surface mount switch motors from MTB, they should be shallow enough to hide under the platform's of the station you are placing there. Watch Chadwick model railway episode 188 for further details.

[@andrewstevenson5449]

Hi Paul, late to your video, and I've not managed to read all the other comments, so may simply be repeating what others have said. TLDR: leave out the points, and enjoy the extra operating requirements of taking locos backwards and forwards from the depot. 1) First off, IF I hated your style of videos so much that I had to leave rude comments, I wouldn't watch your videos. (And yes, there are a few model railway channels I rarely watch for exactly that reason...) 2) Points with no clearance for point motors. My initial thought was that they're right at the front of the layout, so (assuming you've not removed the springs), you could just operate them with the hand of god. Other options would be wire-in-tube either manual or connected to a remote point motor, or smaller low profile point motors. A month or so ago, I popped into DCC Concepts' showroom in Settle, and my mind was blown by working model point rodding in OO, operated by servos, but I'm sure installing that would drive most people mad. 3) Do you even need the points? Cost of two Peco points, motors & infrastructure is bad enough: imagine the cost of the full size equivalent! I'm pretty certain that not every station had points to release the loco, and I think your description of a loco coming from the depot to pick up the train for departure, and the "trapped" loco then making its way to the depot. 4) There was a bit of overthinking going on when you wondered about things like the baggage van being at the wrong end when the train left the terminus. Well, yes. That's going to happen at any terminus station. Without going back through your videos to find the one with the track plan, I can't remember if there's a reverse loop anywhere in Julian's design. If you can't reverse the train, you're always going to have the problem that a train leaving the terminus couldn't return to it with the loco remaining at the front without the loco running round at some point.

[@JamesBest-s3l]

Hi Paul love you video's have you thought about the Peco solenoid point motors that fit directly to the bottom of the point you need to cut a square hole in the baseboard as for the wiring you could use some spade connectors so when fitted they just slot together Hth J.James

[@browniesspotting3512]

Hello again..have you thought about “wire in the tube” point control on the top board?..no need for drilling through the boards and a discrete switch on the edge of the board may be a solution?..good luck with the problem solving

[@katielucas3178]

Actually that's a good solution -- even if the points are being electrically operated, the motor could be somewhere else. There''d be the issue of wiring up the frog polarity thing (I've seen Julian talking about it), but that should be doable by just extending the wires out. All that mechanism could then either be under the top board somewhere there's space or even hidden by a building on the surface -- which would have the advantage of being easy to get to to do fixes -- with that, one could fix the point motor assembly as one would through the board but *upside down*, the pin drives the the wire-in-tube through a slot in the base board... and then at the other end, there's another slot to get the action back up to the point....

[@katielucas3178]

Oh! An idea just hit me! Will the point motors fit in the base of a signal box? if so, there could maybe be a linkage that would throw the little model frame levers as the points change. Maybe something in etched brass for the levers around a pivot... the bottom of the lever has teeny magnet on it which is then pushed back and forth by a magnet from the point motor... (also means the top of the signal box lifts off to get to the motors). How amazing would that look while working?

[@Sandlingjunction]

Yes, it is an option, also looking at DCC train Automation options instead of Cobalts. cheers P

[@Sandlingjunction]

@@katielucas3178 Thanks again, Katie, yes an option to look at seriously, cheers P

[@Sandlingjunction]

@@katielucas3178 now there is a plan for sure, cheers P

[@malcolmone1]

a problem you do have is that trains can only come into the station in one direction ( anti clockwise) and not the other ,perhaps you should have had a through station on the lower level ,and the branch on the higher level ,with sheds and yards, there is a station in wales where there is a reverse direction at Carmarthen

[@Sandlingjunction]

I have the end to end alongside the mains, the top level is only a total of 11 feet sadly, but a good idea and I thank you, cheers P

[@arthurthorpe5445]

I feel for you and your issue I have exactly the same problem on my layout there is a 8ftx2ft section above my fiddle yard. My original plan was to have it hinge upwards but now it's in place the weight and rigidity is a problem also it has a station and goods yard with quite a few points. The track wiring is fine but points and controls is a problem.!!! Currently I am stuck and just operating the points manually. I await to see your solution.

[@Sandlingjunction]

Yes, I get your pain lol. Many have suggested surface options and rodding, may look at that, cheers P

[@kite7214]

You can't take it with you. I totally agree. I now have 95 locomotives !! 🙂 K

[@PaulSmith-pl7fo]

Not wishing to turn this into a p!ssing contest, I now have 109 locos. A loco too far? I think it was to have (almost) a representative of each class of (the more common) classes - steam, diesel and electric.

[@stevescaniasorenson5872]

Hi what about having two of the same locomotives one at each end of the line and follow up with the other one as you said and then maybe will look like you have a run around arts impression and at the end of the day is your layout do it how you want keep up the fun and great videos

[@rayshowsay1749]

Is there someplace where I can find the latest trackplan of the layout? The only one(s) I have found are on 'Station Road' channel, but the trackage on these for this station board do not seem to quite match what I see in your last few videos . At times I'm tempted to offer some suggestions; however without having a decent idea of 'the lay of the land' I could end up talking through my hat.

[@bobainsworth5057]

Actually, Paul, your building thus railroad to run ( operate) the way you designed it. Why worry so much about the " what if'$ " . If for some reason in the futrue you may be of good health to move the layout, worry about it then. For now , enjoy you trains. Also, if you have to move the layout you won't be neatly cutting through the track. You'll be taking short ( 3/4 inches ) of track out then undo base board. Another thing , no layout will survive a move in tact as is. The new location will be too small or too large an area for this layout. Plus the person putting it in will probly want to tree it a bit to put something of their own into the layout. Just enjoy you trains,. Compromises are part of layout building anyway , so put in surface mounted point machines and get back into running. HAVE FUN!!!

[@robturner3117]

Hi Paul, does your layout have a return loop so that trains leaving the main terminus can turn themselves around whilst running around

[@colonelga-taffy6753]

Do you think you have over complicated your lay for such a small and tight space... they say less is more, and I'm sure many look at your layout, and it's very confusing.

[@Sandlingjunction]

It is complex agreed but very workable overall, just these few niggles to overcome, cheers P

[@philipcooke9457]

Can you not fit side mounted point motors? I'm no expert but maybe it could be a workable option?

[@Sandlingjunction]

It is an option and one now being considered , cheers P

[@zodzod9378]

Just use micro top points under the station amd hide the rest and be done with it ! Little john from chichester

[@peacheymodels3503]

I'd have straight lines into the platforms with no points. Then you can have a station pilot removing carriages (saving repelling) You'll also benefit from not having to 'notch' the platforms for the swing out of the loco using the points!

[@Sandlingjunction]

Thanks, yes I see that, sadly the gentle curve is my only option, they do straighten fast though , cheers P

[@peacheymodels3503]

@@Sandlingjunction I mean, no points, the gentle curve wasn’t my point ;)

[@lesliegprice6652]

If tou aredoing a shuttle use a multiple unit then tou don't have to worry about reversing

[@Sandlingjunction]

Yes they will feature and will help the matter , cheers P

[@haydnwheeler583]

Ryde pier Isle of Wight used a “pilot” system. IE use 3 engines for two sets of coaches. Train pulls in and uncouples pilot couples to rear of coaches and leaves second train arrives on adjacent track un couples first loco now moves to rear of this rake of coaches couples up and leaves, next train arrives on first track uncouples loco moves from adjacent track couples to coaches and leaves, and repeat. Bottom line you always have a light loco in the platform after the first train has left. Good luck.

[@Sandlingjunction]

Thank you, It does seem to be the answers as most are suggesting cheers P

[@Teesbrough]

Hi Paul, Eeeek! And aaaargh! Your problems mirror those on my own layout but I don’t let them bother me. Nor should they you. Eeeek! for even thinking about putting a point on a modular baseboard join. Aaaargh! For over-analysing and trying to justify something unnecessarily. Your railway is supposed to be fun. In this and the previous episode 12 you’ve already discarded prototypical operational practice by running Down trains on the Up main simultaneous with Up trains on the Down main! The beauty of your layout, as designed with Julian, is you can vary how you operate it according to your mood. One day you can run long trains on your loops. Another you can mess about with trains to the harbour. A third you can shunt locos in the depot. You have enough locos and stock to run a different era on different days. Or a heritage day if you so wish. In short, accept it’s never going to give you 110%, but please enjoy it!

[@Sandlingjunction]

In a nutshell ,thanks, BTW am changing the up-down directions, lol cheers P

[@colinedwards9874]

Hi Paul, ignore the Sad B@$7@&)$, that have nothing better to do, just keep doing what you do

[@barrystark3603]

Use a station pilot loco

[@Sandlingjunction]

I think that is going to happen, cheers P

[@anfieldroadlayoutintheloft5204]

great vid on channel keep up the great vid thanks lee

[@Sandlingjunction]

Thanks, Lee and I shall do, cheers P

[@derrickpensom5429]

If you do decide to keep the points, why not change the points manually.

[@Sandlingjunction]

As a last resort, Derrick , it will be so, hopefully a motorised option will work, cheers P

[@terrygee1628]

Hi Paul, I can only say less is more. it seems to me you are trying to cram in to much. sit back and have a rethink.

[@Sandlingjunction]

A point I have often thought myself Terry, and a well made one, cheers P

[@ianavery6664]

Hi Paul. First and foremost this is your layout and therefore no one else has the right to criticise. What would bring you most joy in the area your working on, if you can decide on that then there are ways to sort the issues. Try and enjoy it, and don't let it become a source of stress. Ian