One of these is worth $75,000?! - How to pick a violin bow

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Spent a fun afternoon with my buddy Joel Link (Curtis Faculty and 1st Violinist of the Dover Quartet) picking out violin bows and sharing feedback to each other.
Thanks to Frederick Oster Fine Violins for hosting us for the occasion!
*UPDATE: Joel bought the $2,500 bow. They’re on a musical honeymoon now 💕

[@RayChenViolinist]

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[@eldoubleu2250]

Sharing ;P And listening. Has expanded my appreciation of those learning instruments that I don't play.

[@RayChenViolinist]

UPDATE: Joel bought the $2,500 bow. They’re on their musical honeymoon now ❤

[@emilequimper-bouchard501]

I am considering buying a H.R Pfretzchner myself but for my cello. These bows are quite nice.

[@janne-mattiholm8927]

Great! Pfretzschner is all you need! They are worth the money.

[@ithaca1812]

I like how every time they say octagonal bow, the picture they use is hexagonal

[@TwoSetViolinEdits]

It’s cuz they’re musicians- not mathematicians. Are shapes math? I forgot.

[@pigepodge8172]

There’s a reason we’re musicians and not shapeicians

[@simplytwosetter]

Hello friend from Ithaca (I assume?) I just left there after six years lol

[@ngokieutruc4281]

@@TwoSetViolinEditsyes, it’s geometry

[@TwoSetViolinEdits]

@@ngokieutruc4281 thx

[@anikaxmeisel]

Love this! My professor’s violin is $100,000 but she ended up liking a $5,000 bow the best.

[@sabrinai]

Love how Ray's just causally flexing his bow, violin AND rosin throughout this vid.

[@kelleyforeman]

I love that a $2500 bow was Joel's favorite! He sounded fantastic. What a thick, solid sound!

[@giomusah2155]

I saw him in ft worth, all those rich old ladies wanted a piece of him

[@laralovesviolins6510]

I love how the $1200 H.R. Pfretzschner bow was a favorite! Goes to show not all bows (or violins either) are valued accurately. I love the "blind" test which gets rid of preconceived notions.

[@belmon38]

Include bows from modern makers and the surprise would be bigger!

[@laralovesviolins6510]

I'm sure!@@belmon38

[@ynot5478]

So educational-everyone talks about the violin but today I was reminded that the bow also helps determine your sound. Thank you!

[@nickcarroll8565]

I’m getting my good one repaired right now, my wife was very surprised sound difference. The practice one is balanced well, but it simply can’t pull the same out.

[@jayneal8293]

I don't play, but I love to listen to the violin. You guys really opened my eyes to how different each piece can be. Thanks!

[@Highlander515]

I still have fond memories of the concert Ray played with the Dover Quartet in Laguna Beach. So happy for Joel that he found a great bow at a great price!

[@zumbimax]

Fred's 16-bits picture should be present forever every time he appears in a video!

[@rigelLiam]

I love tonic! It really motivates me to practice more!

[@ThomUnderStars]

Omg, this video really helped me choose a bow! Seriously, I've been checking bows for a long time and there is a shop selling a copy of Peccatte's. It will be a shot in the dark, but I think I'm gonna go for it just because you mentioned here. Thanks, Ray!

[@Metalpazallteway]

It's amazing how two professional violinists can have strong opposing views on their preferences of sound. Remarkable exposition and it goes to show even the best have differences amongst the best of sounds.

[@peggyim2399]

very nice demonstration. thank you

[@alena5608]

hello ray! i'm new to violin - zero musical background and all - and do not play an instrument but you have opened up the world of violin to me! i enjoy listening to your playing, and honestly the snipplets in this video where you tested out each bow on your violin sounded wonderful to me! if you ever decide to just record and upload your random practice sessions i would definitely listen (currently listening to a recording of your saintsaens rondo performance :-))

[@karentravis2357]

My parents very generously bought me my second bow for my 21st birthday from Guiviere’s in London. I used this method too and it was nerve racking not knowing how much each bow was worth. ( I expect my parents set a limit 😁). It was great fun though and I still use that bow to this day.

[@antine1279]

I love the blind tests, reminds you not to have preconceived notions and try stuff out to see what you like/what works for you. Also the idea of doing it with another musician who can give you feedback is very good!

[@melindayin2705]

nice to see joel repping the dover quarter with you, Ray!

[@starfighter2952]

Just when you thought a violin was expensive. You find out the price of the bow. Wow.

[@wakingtheworld]

Well I need a Ray Chen in my pocket when I upgrade my violin bow.... not for a long while yet though.... Loved the vid.... and listening to you guys playing. Price isn't always everything....

[@anileda38]

Wow! Interesting video!

[@Love-Is-Kind]

So adorable! 😊 Cows 🐄 and a violin 🎻 performance by Ray Chen must be one of the best ways to start one's day. ☀️❤🤗

[@morgansingh5032]

This is so cute I love it

[@Milo-kk5kb]

Hey Ray, I'm a big fan of Joel and the Dover Quartet and their collabs with the Brooklyn Duo. Now that you've acknowledged you can play the viola, I would like to see you review/react to Dover Quartet''s recording of Dvorak's American String Quartet, first movement.... or even better, hear you perform the viola solos from the piece!!

[@omasweetheart]

That’s awesome 🎻

[@ntobekohandelfaya8745]

Thank you my Brother....when are you visiting South Africa .....in Durban...at Durban Music School ❤❤❤❤❤.... I can't wait to see you

[@TheGreenLounge21]

Wondered whether it was a vow or my feeling when I didn't feel warmth. So far the most interesting to watch 👍

[@eleanorf.8840]

So much octagonal bow hate! I love octagonal bows, they feel so much more comfortable to me than round ones. But then I generally like a lightweight bow.

[@Haakhin]

I was just literally thinking that I should buy a new bow, then I opened youtube and this is in recomendations

[@wakingtheworld]

Whoooo, YT can read your thoughts now..... jk.... or is it? It already knows our mind and has built up a personality profile of each of us....

[@SkunkworksProps]

I just bought a new bow actually! The dealer gave them to me in batches of 3, and I'd pick my favourite and put it aside, then onto the next batch of 3. Keep working in 3's until you have your favourite. Turned out I also liked keeping my money. 😂

[@zoelee8471]

Ray just flexing his new bow and rosin hahaha 😂

[@CortVermin]

thats kinda interesting, i tried looking for a new bow last year but it was quite hard because i set a price point and got a few bows to compare within this range. maybe i should bring ray with me next time :D

[@Fidi987]

Hm, I bought my first self-picked bow about a year ago. My price range was 500€/ max. I had until then just played the bow that came with the simple violin I had inherited. I don't do much bow technique, mainly legato, and I just wanted to see if I could detect a difference at all and if it would be worth changing.I had rented a cello at that time and the bow that came with it was 200€ and I really noticed a difference to my violin bow, I was much more able to "go into the string". When I finally tested the bows (just played some lines of mainly scales and some easy double stops) I noticed a distinctive difference in tone and playability in them. The price range I had been given was from around 120€ to 500€, Some of the cheaper ones "slid" across the string a bit, but mainly I rejected them due to sound (too bright) and finally I picked one that I had the most control over and the darkest sound (my violin is more on the dark sounding side). That was the second most expensive at around 420€, I am at most on low intermediate level, if at all, but still I was able to make an decision based on the differences I perceived. I believe that should be possible for players at almost all levels, maybe after one or two years of playing. I would advice you to make an appointment for bow shopping now and then and just see if you come across a bow you really like. Remember: You can always upgrade later, it need not be the one bow for all your life! Don't look for perfection, look for what works for you NOW. BTW What was interesting: Most people look for a balanced and some for a bright sound in their violins. Had that been my goal, I would have been happy with some of the cheaper bows and would have walked out of the shop with a bow for 190 to 300€, actually! So, cheaper need not be bad, it is really very much a question of personal preference!

[@user-io1ku8li5d]

I LOVE DOVER QUARTET!!!!!!

[@Exayevie]

I was so surprised they ditched no. 4 so quickly! I thought it sounded incredible, like a smooth, aged bourbon. This is octagonal discrimination lol!

[@dees3179]

I liked the sound too. But sometimes the way it sounds up close will wreck the experience. Sound as viewer vs player are two different things. Haptic feedback is also important, I’ve rejected instruments that sound great to the listener because they are not pleasurable to play.

[@KangTaeKyumViolin]

So Fun❤

[@druidsongevergreens]

Haha octagonal bows are always my first picks. I think how it feels to the person, based on what they first learned to play with, really affects their playing sound.

[@danjackson5989]

I've been thinking of upgrading my bow. Given that it's a $4500 HR Pfrezchner and how this turned out maybe I should just be happy with what I have. haha..

[@itruelovei]

Fun game!

[@leomdeng]

this is the guy that called ray’s phone several times during the rehearsal

[@simondanielssonmusic]

best violinist in the game

[@kristenalaska1867]

Wait, “I don’t know who Peccotte is”? 😂 it would’ve been really fantastic if Joel had played and selected a Peccotte bow as his favorite!

[@CeciliaTan]

Somehow I'm not surprised you liked the $65,000 bow and Joel liked the $2,500 bow :D

[@jonasboyd8342]

Would it help to play the same piece with each bow to have more of a consistent sound and technical feel for each bow?

[@infledermaus]

I haven't looked at tonic for a few minutes, but there was no mandolin practice there. You have mandolins on your mantle. Please include it if you have not already. 😊

[@infledermaus]

Do you play the mandolins, Ray? I love bowl backs.

[@3dprintersawhiteboard401]

The fun part is, my very first experience with a good bow was a Pfretzschner as well. I remember going to a bow maker and asking for bows in the price range of up to 1500DM (old currency in Germany, with inflation that would be like a 1000€ now). We did it the same way as presented here, no price tags and not looking at the stamps. He threw in that one Pfretzschner from the "golden period" of Hermann Richard. I was told it was about 15000DM (about 10k now) at the end, but I think thats at least double of what even a very good Pfretzschner is worth today. However, that bow was so amazing, but back than there was absolutely no way to afford it for me. So the end of the story is, that I fell so much in love with that bow, that I did not buy any bow at all up until 7 years later, because everytime it felt less. I now play a Grünke, which I am pretty happy with.

[@Angela-Violin]

Wow ❤❤❤

[@sabrinai]

Such fast energy in this video somehow.

[@sabrinai]

Just impressed they didn't mix up their personal bows with the ones for sale XD.

[@kusyashik]

ваш профессионализм делает делает любой смычок и инструмент уровня про 😅❤

[@liamnevilleviolist1809]

10:03 - bow no. 12 was a BIG YES from me, but then again it was being played by on a completely different violin to a Strad and by a person with a very different technique.

[@alandeutsch9987]

it's funny that joel said "you can like it and be wrong" for that bow but it ended up being the bow that he chose

[@liamnevilleviolist1809]

@@alandeutsch9987 I thought he said "You can like it, I could be wrong". I wonder what he actually said! Edit: Damn, now I think you picked up on the words best! "...and be wrong" sounds like a very fun bit of banter between these lads :)

[@Davyjones5454]

How about the hair ? Can u compare different hairs but using same bow as control ?

[@blitzr8616]

And he did buy that bow.. darn.

[@michelelaraia7358]

Mantua, Mantova🇮🇹Lombardy/Lombardia. Southeastern tip of region

[@Msmcarlos]

Bow #9 is 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[@popitoto]

What was the number two?

[@TheGreenLounge21]

Any chance to see the Beatles Ob La Di Ob La Da in a violet version? Liked the song but not the story/words.

[@cellolion6631]

No.10 had a lot more sound although y'all found it stiff. The violins really reacted ! To the concert hall. !!!

[@namlex4483]

Wish that you’d make a video for beginners who don’t have 75k or even 1k to spend on a bow

[@nar0106]

What rosin did he say he used?

[@efraimviolin]

What's the piece in 2:07

[@liamnevilleviolist1809]

Just for those who aren't "in the know" - Many great bows as made by the makers from the 18th or 19th century are made octagonally and *stay* that way (makers like Dodd, Peccatte, Tourte). But then for some reason they have been "cut down" to a round shape which takes away weight but gives the bow a different feel. If the wood has aged well on such a bow then the bow will keep its stiff feel and wont warp. All good bows start off octagonal, then are shaped to have 16 sides, then 32 sides/facets, then eventually finely rounded. There are a lot of great Tourte bows, Dodd, Peccatte, Pajeot, Simon, Persoit's which were once octagonal but then later "rounded out". Less wood means less weight on the strings and so they "speak" more clearly instantly. They don't always age well after this process though! I'm very thankful to have a Fonclause which is octagonal and untouched - it speaks the best out of all the bows I own (everything from Tubbs, to Bazin, to modern). A modern bow I have really out-does a lot of old French and German bows though [one being a Carl H. Knopf bow). This is why you might see many modern round bows being very thick in diameter - the maker *has* to give the bow a little more wood in order to make it "play". So you will generally see today's Chinese and Brazilian bows with a larger diameter especially in the middle of the stick. Octagonal doesn't always mean: "rule it out".

[@belmon38]

Agree. I picked up my Sartory from 11 Sartorys on the bench...and it happened to be the octagonal one!

[@liamnevilleviolist1809]

@@belmon38 I'm glad you got yourself a Sartory! Some violinists (who aren't too well known) say "bah, it's a French antique and it's nice but it's not good enough in comparison to the $50k - 80k French bows [that they've magically set money aside for]). Maxim Vengerov (an idol of mine) uses a Sartory often! Myself, I think I've seen perhaps 9 or 10 or 11 Sartory's and come to think of it - only ONE was octagonal! It was a beautiful example with very little shellac on the stick but still had a bright shine to the light-coloured pernambuco. The frog was in great condition and the silver mountings didn't have many scratches or 'pitting' marks that looked bad. I played it on my violin and the match just wasn't good. I then heard my client play on their violin and it sounded great. (The client played their Sartory on my violin and it still didn't sound good. They also played MY best bow on their own violin and the sound lacked a little something). Thanks for your comment :)

[@eldoubleu2250]

Poor Joel. I think you deserve new bow too. 😂

[@RayChenViolinist]

Would you have guessed which bow was $75,000?

[@piano.is.a.language]

Nope :D

[@eldoubleu2250]

I ought to have listened on better speakers. The ones you guys tossed aside did seem to sound more Honkey...less pretty or refined. On my phone speakers anyhow. Thanks...I might be able to get a car title loan and not sell my house for a cool bow ;)

[@Gabacarin]

What’s the rosin that Ray is using? I couldn’t catch that.

[@belmon38]

Guillaume

[@Exayevie]

Does 0:15 imply that a cucumber is a 3-star bow? 😂

[@HermanMuda]

I guessed it right, no 8 hahaha

[@alandeutsch9987]

9:23 anyone know what he was playing here?

[@jacqueskongolo3440]

downloaded tonic but I don't know how it's works

[@TomLeg]

At 4:00, he says octagonal, and the graphic shows a hexagon. Get with it,graphics department! :-)

[@bicguy2923]

Where they say yes i say no xD

[@teckyify]

Not a bad price must say

[@benlokibryant]

What was the first piece ray played on the 3rd bow called

[@benlokibryant]

Only piece*

[@estherbenjamin3944]

What piece did Joel play with bow 11?

[@wesdquas8572]

what was the other piece he played with 11? i’ll let you know what the first one was when I find it, I know what it is but I can’t remember

[@blitzr8616]

Did anyone catch the rosin brand?

[@ctaylor111]

Pierre Guillaume :)

[@piano.is.a.language]

Bow bros ahuahuah

[@vincentk2048]

Does anyone know which piece Joel is playing at 9:24

[@linglingblessyou]

Kreisler Recitativo and Scherzo-Caprice

[@zachansen8293]

4:00 that's a hexagon not an octagon

[@AlfaRossa88]

PETER guarneri of MANTUA nun se po sentì Ray 😅😅😅 is like for me to say Giorgio W. Cespuglio 😆

[@tyraedmonson9677]

Not he playing for the cows 😭😭😂😂😩

[@belmon38]

I have to say...sorry but the Pietro Guarneri sounded nicer than the Strad almost always!

[@clarissapw2166]

Just pleasantly surprised at the pusheen edit. thanks to whoever edits this video. That is all.

[@liamnevilleviolist1809]

4:03 - says "octagonal" , shows a cartoon of a hexagon ;)

[@BlackHermit]

For us, subscribers, to hold melodies tight, Two souls embarked on a musical flight. Joel Link, a master of the violin's grace, And Ray Chen with a heart's yearning embrace. A dozen bows they gathered, each a gem, To test their resonance from root to stem. Instruments of wood and horsehair entwined, Secrets of sound within their form defined. No price tags whispered, no bias to bind, The mystery of bows they aimed to unwind. Choosing three each, with eyes to the skies, Awaiting the moment when the truth would arise. Strings and wood form a symphony's core, Bridging the realms of what came before. Joel's choice was diverse, one to nine to twelve, A delightful journey where stories would delve. Revelations unfolded, prices unveiled, From thousands to thousands, tales of bows sailed. Yet within the notes, in harmonies true, Lies the essence of music that forever renews. A bonus bow, an unexpected treasure, Unveiling a sound, a memory to measure. Strings vibrating, like whispers of time, Echoes of melodies, in rhythm they chime. So in a video where bows dance and play, Two kindred spirits embarked on this day. With violins poised, and strings at their hand, They wove a capriccio, a story so grand.

[@BlackViolinist_]

That's our mind when the price is More Expensive our mind already assumes it the best and all we hear is the most expensive one 15:03

[@fadcullen]

I don't know that bow is also very expensive 😅

[@Angela-Violin]

❤hi ❤Ray Chen❤🎉❤😊

[@lepiboyo201]

theres just something about that other guarneri..

[@SteamPunk-mw9gb]

ray goes with 911 (12)???!!!!

[@eldoubleu2250]

I should examine some sticks....lol...10 seconds...

[@twoblink]

HAHAHA I thought #8 sounded the worst...

[@Its_Quash]

More expensive doesn’t mean more better

[@jnee3873]

RAY CHEEEEEEEEN

[@Al-gv5uw]

You are picking darker sounds

[@JosesGarage101]

Ray! Why is it so important to play on a $5.000.000 violin to choose what bow is right for you? Can an expensive bow make a cheap violin sound expensive?

[@MrWiseinheart]

I don't recommend using a bow on the sheep 🐏 it won't sound good and they might ram you. 😅

[@sherrypang7803]

Octagonal bow Inserts hexagon 😂😂😂

[@kiwithree5852]

Just bought a bow a few weeks ago 😢

[@gabebabe1]

$65K for a Sartory??? Wow, should have kept mine

[@JohnathanJohaisen]

What’d you do with yours?

[@bobmoore5043]

Put blindfolds on the and give them some really cheap bows from the internet, don't tell them what they are then see what happens. We can't all afford those bows they were using...