One Piece of the Missile Puzzle: The 400HZ Frequency Converter

[@Plaprad]

The last bit about "Unapproved markings" is pretty common in the military. When I was on C-130's, our birds still had the controls for JATO, even though most of the equipment was disconnected. So my bird had a red guarded switch and big button that did nothing. During an ISO on my bird I ordered a new panel for it since it was pretty ragged. When the new one arrived, it was blank and needed to be marked. So I took it to a buddy in CTK with access to the new etcher we had. After a few beers I had the only C-130 with a "Navigator Eject" button installed. It was pretty popular with the crews too. Then, someone decided they didn't like it and ordered it replaced with the proper one.

[@barrydysert2974]

Some people have no sense of humor 😂

[@fungalcoffee]

I need to remember this for later reference, that's awesome and a shame that it got nixed.

[@Plaprad]

@@fungalcoffee That wasn't even the best one. There was a dial on the Co Pilots side panel from a system that was removed years earlier that was left. They literally removed everything from this system except a dial. No wires connected or anything. Another Crew Chief made a panel for it that made it look like a volume knob. Above it said "Fortunate Son" and below, in big letters, "FOR COMBAT USE ONLY". IIRC, that was the one that got access to the engraver taken away and a standing order that using it for stuff like that was an automatic Article 15. Fun while it lasted though.

[@fungalcoffee]

@@Plaprad damn, someone always needs to be a party pooper, great story thought!

[@dalesql2969]

On my ship we had motor generator sets. If I recall correctly, there was a 60 Hz motor that spun a shaft that turned a generator that produced 400 Hz AC. there was also a battery bank that would somehow take over if there was a 60 Hz power failure. Things powered by the 400 Hz power was the gyrocompass and all the repeaters. The fire control equipment. Director, computers, radars, and portions of the sonar system. So there probably was a 400 Hz MG set aboard during WW2. I would expect near the forward and aft fire control centers, as all the gun laying data would be transmitted via 400 Hz powered equipment. The reason for 400 Hz power was twofold. It allowed much higher resolution of the bearing and angle indicators, so thus higher precision in fire control, which for battleships was critical. the reason it's used on aircraft is weight savings. Motors and transformers did not need iron cores to operate like their 60 Hz counterparts. Some radio equipment used 400 Hz, so as to take advantage of the battery backup for emergency radio communications. You might find some outlets in those spaces that look like regular edison plugs, but have a label or color coding saying 400 Hz power. Don't plug your electric razor into them. ANd yeah, adding whimsical labels to spare breakers and such is a long time tradition, not just in the navy.

[@matthewbeasley7765]

The ones shown for Wisconsin are static inverters to produce the 400Hz.

[@SeanBZA]

I did plug electric drills and such into the 400Hz power, they whine a lot, and run at the same speed, as they are universal motors, so work well on 400Hz with just a loss of power. Also have used them on the 28VDC bus, where you got the same lowered power because of low voltage. Speed controls do not work well on 400Hz, as they are either then full on or full off, as the thyristor controls do not respond fast enough to the higher frequency, and on DC they turn on and stay on till the trigger is released. but handy out on a forward base if you need to drill out a stuck screw, and you have no air equipment, and only a power drill. drill it out, remove the panel, and drill out the self locking plate, and rivet a new one in instead, with a new screw. Induction motors just whine, and will in general not start at all, and get warm fast as there is no cooling.

[@Allthough]

I was an IC man on an Adams class destroyer in the late 80s. We had two 400Hz MG sets. Dual redundant system, we only needed to run one at a time. They also had big banks of car batteries that would keep them running for a little while if we lost main power. The 400Hz power was used all over the ship. The big sperry gyros sent out 400Hz signals that the repeaters all over the ship used. Other indicators like rudder angle indicators and the helm connections to the steering gear ran on 400Hz. The motion control systems on the guns, and various missile launchers used it to follow the stable platform in the sperry. I think, even the wind birds used it. We would swap out the active MG set at least daily. It was a fascinating evolution. No automatic controls. You had to turn big knobs to bring the offline genset up to speed and match the online unit. When they were in synch, you would throw the switch to tie them together (that was always an anxiety inducing moment). Once they were spinning together you would turn a knob to take the load off the offgoing genset and then disconnect it. You could always tell an ICman because we had little round holes burned into our dungarees from doing maintenance on the battery banks. :)

[@leftyo9589]

grrr, battery pms. best thing i did for myself, and the guys who followed me was to get sealed batteries for the gyro, and phone system backups.

[@mikemarcum9563]

I enjoyed seeing the UAV on Wisconsin. Greatly enjoyed seeing the bottom of NJ.

[@jeffwxyz]

Looking at the photos of Wisconsin's 400Hz converter tells me it is a solid state unit (rectifier and inverter). Looking at the steel frame of the deck on the New Jersey makes me think it has a motor-alternator unit.

[@astrocrut]

On the Concorde , the Powerd Flying Control Units (PFCUs) were using a FBW (Fly By Wire )static inverter. This thing, which was rightly monitored up to the hilt, produced a 26 Volt 1800 Hz output. (1800 Hz was chosen as this is not a harmonic of aircraft mainline 400 Hz AC supply) to power simple 4 wire synchros.

[@phillipbouchard4197]

😄Hi Ryan, Your mentioning of the radio room on the Iowa reminded me of my three hour tour back in 1996 when she was in Philadelphia. Our tour guide was an employee of the Inactive Ship Facility and was most kind with his time and took us anywhere we wanted to go. One other fellow that was with us on the tour was a Radioman aboard Iowa during the 1980's and he slipped away from our group at some point and went up to his old duty station in the Radio Room where he proceeded to fire up his old equipment. Thank goodness no signal could be sent out due to her radio antenna's being in storage. Needless to say our Tour Guide was immensely relieved we found him.

[@klsc8510]

Ryan, now that you found the circuit breakers...now you have to find those four items. Follow the wires! On a serious side, part of the reason for 400 Hz is that it is easier to rectify into DC power. The 407L radar system I worked on in the USAF when I was stationed in then West Germany used 400 Hz for power.

[@leftyo9589]

MG sets. they take 60hz power to drive a Motor, that spins the Generator side producing 400hz. not just for missiles, 400hz would power pretty much all the modern electronics put on the ship. missiles, radars, etc. my first ship, we had 2 mg sets in a back room to the IC shop. we had a hammock strung up over them i used once in a while when the old flat bottom LST really got rocking. they made a fairly loud whine, but not bad for sleeping to, and they put out a little heat to keep you warm. extra info, when you get bit by 400hz, your joints hurt for days after.

[@wfoj2]

Ok - in WW2 - NJ probably had MG sets. - a small "load" then - gyro repeaters- perhaps synchro feedback on turret position aims. Most stuff was MG sets. Pictures from Wisconsin show probably those were static Converters. FYI - I suspect on all airplanes (both airliners and militayr) electricity is first created at 400 HZ. I have heard of 1 missile than can take either 400 HZ or DC (400 HZ has to be 3 phased) - I have seen some AC to DC converters designed to take either 60 HZ or 400 HZ input. humm - I also read other folks remarks - several deserve thanks.. For what I have seen - I have done work where imput power from the local electric companies- If those were NOT stable sources the MG sets were better than the "new-fangled" Static converters _ I suspect the rotational inertia smoothed stuff out.

[@rearspeaker6364]

@@wfoj2 MG converters will always be better than the static ones, they are so much more reliable, just ask amtrak, they got a static converter for their last 10 miles going into DC, it is always acting up!

[@NeneExists]

Looking at the panel these are static units, but built with redundancy in a big way, and six rectifier/inverter pairs per phase. ​@@rearspeaker6364

[@wtmayhew]

@@rearspeaker6364 It probably depends on who makes it, how reliable a static converter is. We replaced our datacenter MG set when it got wiped out by a flood caused by a burst fire main elbow fitting in the late 1990s. The replacement is an EPE 60 Hz three phase. Even though I’m no longer working there, I believe the EPE is probably still running. That is a 50 KW unit.

[@gerrywalsh5766]

Oh yes, I got nailed by 480 volt 400 Hz.. my arm was numb for 3 days. It was from a 4 megawatt emergency generator for the base Radar systems. Note to self... never just reach into a control panel without thinking it through. Lol

[@moefuggerr2970]

Makes sense. Military aircraft operate at 120 volts 400 hz. All servos, coils motors solenoids can be much smaller yet do the same work,

[@DaveSoCal]

I love the Dilithium Crystal containment room on the Kentucky BB, you have to take the transporter to her

[@DaveSoCal]

…after slingshotting around the sun !😎

[@DavidSmith-cx8dg]

As others have said those on Wisconsin are static converters , looking at the base it's possible MGs might have been fitted as New Jersey was the trials ship . Depends on how reliable the anecdotes are from when they were removed .

[@jamesmoore869]

#BattleshipNewJersey has a Ryan Schmanski who's energy and passion generate the popularity for the museum fleet... Be well

[@Norbrookc]

"What's the frequency Kenneth?" "400Hz, Dan."

[@nmccw3245]

Ha! I’m old enough to get the reference and R.E.M. ember the song. 😜

[@wtmayhew]

Photon torpedoes. I knew it!

[@jimtalbott9535]

Interesting that they enlarged a radio room in the 1980s, considering how much miniaturization had taken place. Of course, the capability hugely improved for that space/power demand.

[@Tomyironmane]

Missiles and radars. Even radars in non-flying applications. The guys in the counterbattery radar section had 400hz AC generators.

[@richardhartman5234]

The proper term is a motor-generator (MG). Minuteman Missile Launch Facilities and Launch Control Facilities have MGs that will automatically switch to batteries when the primary (60 Hz) power goes away. The current configuration uses 10 submarine class (1500 lb) batteries as the backup power.

[@matthew____879]

The cabin on the Iowa with FDR's bathtub for the trip to the Casablanca Conference is pretty cool.

[@DevonRomero-s1b]

So the New Jersey has some starship systems on it?! lol Maybe she’ll be able to take on the space Yamato! 😂😂😂

[@chrisserfass8635]

Hey Space Battleship New Jersey and Space Battleship Yamato today would most likely join forces to fight the pesky aliens.

[@BrianHoff04]

Darn.. I try to be the guy that brings up SBY references. Nice job! Next stop.. Iscandar!

[@bfullwood48]

HI , RYAN THANK YOU

[@brunonikodemski2420]

You should NOT have told the Navy, that these MG sets are still available. When I got my EE degree, we had to analyze, model, and repair one of these units. They are totally rebuildable, usually only needing bearings and brushes. Maybe a little bit of commutator re-sanding, but the rest of the unit is essentially indestructible. Even if rusted, all you need to do is remove the rotor, sand the gap clean (also rotor), and stick it all back together. I could do this in my sleep, having done it on gobs of similar electrical machinery. Green copper corrosion easily removed and cheaply re-plated.

[@glocke380]

We had a power panel that was no longer used on the minesweeper I served aboard. I got the Dixie's label shop to make me up some labels for the different switches. The ones I remember were the #1 and# 2 main sweatpumps.

[@jeffkrob4972]

The AN/SLQ-32(V)3 was one of the 400Hz systems as well as the AN/SPS-49 & (probably) the AN/SPS-10

[@rogergoodman8665]

Hello Mr. Szimanski, I'm Special Agent Miller....I'm hear today to inform you about recently discovered "missing" equipment on the Wisconsin, and we want to make sure you still have your 400hertz generators... Ryan: Oh my...that's terrible, but as you can see Agent Miller that we were not robbed, ours are right where they belong.😁🤫

[@samthemultimediaman]

NAVY probable took the holodeck out for another ship...

[@samuelfischman6949]

The One Piece! The One Piece is reeeaaaaal!!

[@F-Man]

I want to push *all* the buttons 😇

[@skydiverclassc2031]

Don't you have to clear that with Scotty first?

[@tidepoolclipper8657]

I say one of the neatest things only on one member of the class is New Jersey's Admiral head room having accommodation for the former queen of England.

[@OceanPilot]

0:10 Nice pencil sharpener on the bulkhead.

[@jth877]

I noticed Wisconsin has a complete and very nice teak deck and she is turning pink as the paint coating she has ages with sun exposure. I noticed some of the cruisers in storage have a similar pink hue. Also, aft plot on Wisconsin is 100% complete.

[@korblborp]

the other Iowas are receiving their Photon Torpedos on Tuesday

[@shaundis2117]

With the tractor beam

[@barrydysert2974]

Ryan, You crack me up sometimes 😂 That Evil Museum Curator scheming to fix His warp drive... Priceless !:-) Merry Christmas everyone 🙏

[@philipsavickas4860]

I was a generator mec in the army in a HAWK missile battery we used 400 HZ generators when I did my AIT I was told I would never see a 60 KW gen again my first unit had 13 of them LOL

[@Eledore]

The perfect heist to get the 400hz generators from Wisconsin requires the teleporters, but to get the teleporters working you need 400hz generators.. I see a issue here..

[@charletonzimmerman4205]

My ship, they were labeled - "400 cycle" as Hertz, wasn't approved yet.

[@larsjrgensen5947]

The use of 400Hz for avionics originates from Sperry's development of the electric autopilot in the 30ies. The objective was to power an electric gyroscope for the autopilot system. A motor with brushes would produce carbon dust that would impact the bearings. A 400Hz AC motor is driving a gyroscope at 24.000 rpm. This would be used in the second world war in autopilots in a large scale, also coupled to the bomb sight. The size of electric component reduces with higher voltage, not which frequency.

[@SlabSheetrock]

Huh! Wow. I worked in aerospace/avionics for almost 30 years and never knew this. Cool!

[@jimsvideos7201]

So that’s the non-music person who made an arbitrary choice we’re still living today!

[@phillyphakename1255]

Voltage and current matters a lot for electronics size, but capacitors and inductors do care about frequency. Impedence equals 1/2piF and 2piF. Higher frequency means less resistive losses, smaller wire and caps are needed.

[@sirrobin4ever]

This makes me wonder- If the ship was somewhere where they don’t use 60 hz power, say the UK for example, would the ship be able to use shore power?

[@ut000bs]

When I was active duty we had an EA-6B that had a circuit breaker zipped-tied so you could not push it in and close it. It was marked "Don't Even." It was not hooked to anything. 🤭

[@RandallSchwed]

Warp drive....Deflection shields......Photon torpedoes.....Transporter room.......Planing for the aliens?👽Yeah I saw that movie Ryan hates.👾

[@criggie]

What's the third space backdated to the 40's? Radio room, Admiral's cabin, but can't recall the third one ?

[@BrianHoff04]

Good question. I hope someone answers. I cannot recall what it is. Is it a galley thing?

[@kylesplane]

The brig is backdated (having been converted from an empty gym), but not sure if it's a 40s configuration

[@bfullwood48]

BB-62💙💛🇺🇸🙏🏽🌎

[@WilliamRandolph-wb9fx]

I was in a PERSHING Missle unit. They all ran on 400 MHz generators.

[@onkelfabs6408]

Avionics and high performance data center both run on 400 Hz. My computer at home can also be switched to 400 Hz. Unfortunately, I could not acquire New Jersey's generator.

[@PardsPerformance]

Wondering why there is a vintage Lincoln welder bolted to the deck near some birthing spaces on main deck of Iowa.

[@sparkplug1018]

If you were able to acquire the hardware, is this something that you would want to add back to the ship?

[@onkelfabs6408]

Next time I see a whale boat running along the east coast, I can assume it is the USS New Jersey crew, stealing a 400 Hz generator from Norfolk.

[@bigsarge2085]

⚓️

[@henrycarlson7514]

A sad Loss . Interesting , Thank You

[@charlesmaurer6214]

A converter is NOT a generator, one changes the power structure the other makes the power. Those terms are not interchangeable. Note on converters, modern ones are much smaller than those from even the 80's and generators also are more powerful for the same sizes by a fair margin. While you might not find a period match you might find a newer one to get stuff working, if off the tour would be like the modern AC, not perfect but needed to make things work. Also those spares with the joker labels may have served something secret and avoided revealing such details. Testing a Reagan Star Wars era energy weapon, jammer or other field would be covered well with such Trek code names. If you could get a transporter working you could just beam things in and out like Walter K. and N.N. stealing photons from a Navy Reactor(LOL). Just ask "where do they keep the Nuclear Wessles?" for your Battleship upgrades.😅

[@Pamudder]

I gather from other KZbin authors that unused spaces industrial electrical control panels often bear goof labels- a big red button marked AZ-5 of Chernobyl notoriety is a popular one.

[@allangibson8494]

Technically it is a motor generator - old school AC to DC, DC to AC and DC to DC voltage conversion used the same configuration…

[@allenshepard7992]

Wow you have an electronic frequency converter instead of a mechanical one. Looks to be 3phase power Yes, 400Hz noise is worse than 60Hz. Most magnetic components like mothers, transformers can be made smaller and lighter at seven times higher 400Hx freq. As for "unapproved makrings" Yes. Builds moral. Used to be mostly Star Trek. Did not see much Star Wars though some psychedelic pictures and wizards were popular.

[@chrisserfass8635]

Hey Ryan Space Battleship New Jersey would probably make a great Starship.

[@jamesretired5979]

Any thing you need from SS United States?

[@merlinwizard1000]

1st, 16 December 2024

[@WilliamMurphy-tj7il]

I knew there was a dilithem warp core