Only Kyus Play This 3-3 Invasion Joseki

[@BenKyoBaduk]

QUESTION 1: What is your favorite 3-3 invasion variation as white (the person with the star point)? QUESTION 2: What in this video was the most helpful for you? QUESTION 3: What are you still confused about after the video, or what are you not yet sold on?

[@MsForlo]

Q1: the Flying knife :D Q2: The direction to block sansan when you have the middle stone. That totally make sense, i'll try it in my games. Q3: Tenuki after the first hane (for withe). I already knew it and I know te variation after black atari, but It doesn't feel right when I play it. Black will just atari right away and play elsewhere... It feels bad because black is now ouside and it is harder for me to build a huge wall later if I want to.

[@BenKyoBaduk]

@@MsForlo Awesome reply, thanks for letting me know these things! It helps me :) Regarding your answer #3, maybe you already understood this but keep in mind that when you play the single hane and then tenuki variation, but they atari you after, they need to add a descend in the corner. The video shows how to punish them if they don't, it's fairly severe! Therefore, if they atari to get themselves onto the 3rd line, they must do so in gote.

[@szpur]

I just want to say that i love your daily videos, they are keep pushing me to learn something new everyday :3

[@BenKyoBaduk]

Thanks for the encouraging comment! ^_^

[@nachonacho7888]

Take a drink every time Ben says "let me know if you guys want a video on this". Die of alcohol poisoning. Great videos BTW, and I do want a video on all those other topics.

[@BenKyoBaduk]

Hahaha, thanks for letting me know!

[@sedetweiler]

OMG, I just wrote a comment like this before scrolling down! We are both on the same track here, lol!

[@BenKyoBaduk]

​@@sedetweiler Ahaha okay I'll try to chill out a bit on those ^_^ In the past I had almost no calls to action, so since I'm consciously incorporating those more now I'm still not used to it but this kind of comment helps, and was funny xD

[@maliluha]

Great channel! Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge!

[@maliluha]

And please make a video on subway invasions like e18. Very annoying sometimes and I would really love to learn more about it

[@BenKyoBaduk]

Thanks! Appreciate it

[@BenKyoBaduk]

@@maliluha Here's a video that may satisfy your interest on that: kzbin.info/www/bejne/ooK7m3yQoZp4iMk (cringing a little at my old videos... lol) After checking that video, please let me know if there's more about it you want to learn and I'd be happy to make a video dedicated only to it!

[@maliluha]

@@BenKyoBaduk Thank you! I've checked that video again, good stuff (I've even smashed the like button when I first saw it some time ago, so it's a pity I can't do it second time lol). And don't cringe - I personally prefer seeing face, makes the content more engaging for me. Anyway, I'm still curious about invading a framework formed by a small knight enclosure and a star point extension. In the mentioned video you brought up an attachment, but what about that submarine invasion? Do you maybe have a video on that? In any case thank you again for the great and clear content! It helps me grow.

[@BenKyoBaduk]

@@maliluha Thanks for all that! ^_^ I'll make another video! When I do, if there's still anything it doesn't cover please let me know and I can address that and/or make even another video :)

[@szpur]

15:49 - I REALLY want a video with this specific joseki. Yesterday i totally lost my group when i invaded in 3-3 and my oponent played this. Thas was so sad :D

[@BenKyoBaduk]

Sure thing, I'll get to it sometime soon. If you know what "small L" life and death shape is, knowing to avoid that can guide you here (don't let white get Q2 descend, because their hane at S5 will follow. Or, make sure you can temporarily ignore their descend with some sente stuff on the other side to enlarge the other side first. We just have to avoid the becoming Small L shape.

[@ArchitectGo88]

Great lesson, thanks for this :) Around minute 20 you mentioned there is a ko after 3-3 a corner with a small knight enclosure. Can you explain some of these sequences? Usually in my games, I know it should be a ko or not live at all, but the opponent manages to live. Also interested in subway invasions! Really appreciated!

[@BenKyoBaduk]

Hey! Thanks for watching and commenting! I will make some more of those, as another person has asked about it, but in the meantime I have just the video for you! kzbin.info/www/bejne/ooK7m3yQoZp4iMksi=1b14MbIgSSL9wsmz I believe it covers everything you asked about. Welcome to ask more even after that, cheers!

[@tample16]

Kind of unrelated to this topic, but I’m interested in the 3 space high/low at 17:35, if white invades at M, when do you choose to attach on top vs the more severe diagonal. I’ve sometimes played the diagonal and got severely wrecked >.>

[@BenKyoBaduk]

You mean the M3 invasion? Thanks for the video idea. In the meantime, I do have videos on that topic! it might not answer your question, I can't remember. Here are two videos: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hmOZpGyImLuiqqssi=7XVZFjlmcyNCqhat kzbin.info/www/bejne/hp3UmICerdl6fsksi=BPFo7zPyjkuoj-St

[@danielrittermiller6145]

great video thank you😀

[@BenKyoBaduk]

Thanks for watching & commenting!

[@sedetweiler]

I like your lessons, but if you play the drinking game of "by the way" or "I covered this in another video" you are going to need a doctor. HOWEVER, keep them coming, and that is a minor nit-pick but I enjoyed this quite a bit. Cheers!

[@BenKyoBaduk]

​ @sedetweiler Ahaha okay I'll try to chill out a bit on those ^_^ In the past I had almost no calls to action, so since I'm consciously incorporating those more now I'm still not used to it but this kind of comment helps, and was funny xD

[@jarosawjusiak6716]

1. I rather try to avaoid 3-3 invasion unless opponent made both side ogeima extension or already has some influence. Sometime I invade just to practice and I usualy try to follow AI variants. 2. Unexpectedely the most useful part for me was the difference between J3 and K3 placement when opponent has a high wall. 3. I totally buy the argument that old joseki is worse because of the gote but I don't feel that much of a difference between 2 and 3 stones wall as it comes to fighting after invasion. I do believe you there is a difference, I'm just lacking experience to trully feel it. It would be imposible for me to explain this concept to somebody else, which means I still lack full understanding of it.

[@MsForlo]

How I understand it there is three reasons to play the 3 stones variation instead of 2 : First, with 3 stones the peep for your opponent is on the 6th line. With 2 stones, the peep is on the fifth line. A peep on the fifth line is high but still playable. On the 6th line it's very hard to connect with the side. Second reson is that you may not want to answer to the peep. If you ever let your opponent cut you, you want both groups to be able to live on their own. Having 2 groups of 3 stones is better than having 1 group of 2 and one group of 4. Finally, the three stone joseki let you take sente, the 2 stones joseki wont. In the end, 3 stone variation give you more options. Benkyo probably have better explaination for it, but I wanted to share my understanding of it. You can correct me if I'm wrong. Have a good day!

[@BenKyoBaduk]

@@MsForlo Amazing explanation! :D Maybe I wasn't clear enough about those things in the video. I could always make more videos later.

[@BenKyoBaduk]

Great responses! Those are all great thoughts and understandable things, and I'm glad you gained from the J3 K3 thing. I didn't know it and make the change until already close to my current level. As for 3-3 invasion, over time your taste will change and maybe you will do more of it, but we have lots of style choices and fewer 3-3 could mean less having to deal with moyos, which is also why I think old-fashioned side-splitting moves are fine a lot of the time, no need to hyper-optimize and lick AI's feet lol.

[@jarosawjusiak6716]

@@MsForlo Great observation with 6th line peeping as well as bigger group after cutting. Maybe it's obvious but in fact it's not that easy to find such conclusions on your own so thanks for pointing out that.

[@jsmattsonjr]

Around 24:30, you say that "short plus short is good." But isn't this the small dragonfly that John Powers tells us is bad shape in "Essential Go Proverbs"?

[@BenKyoBaduk]

Hi! Do you mean 4-4 + two knight's moves? Times have changed, it's good now. We have ways to kill white's invasion there without ko most of the time, we just need to not treat it the same as if it were a single knight's move. When we have the double knight enclosure and white invades at 3-3, the killing move is a 2nd-line kosumi from one of the knight's moves (in other words, a weird-looking move that doesn't even touch their invasion stone. Let me know if it was unclear or if you know what I mean ^_^ The John Power book, like many, must have some content that is now outdated, understandably. It's true though that if you don't know how to kill, it's a very inefficient stone arrangement! In that case I can recommend 4-4 + knight's move and then finish later with kosumi (diagonal) on the other side.

[@jsmattsonjr]

@@BenKyoBaduk Yes, I was referring to the 4-4 and two keimas. According to the Powers book, a 3-3 invasion leads to a “flower-viewing ko” for the invader. Nice to know that this has been debunked.

[@BenKyoBaduk]

@@jsmattsonjr Yep. I still find value in such books/content though since it gets us asking the right questions and knowing what to be concerned about. AI sure did run a tornado through all the Go knowledge though lol

[@jsmattsonjr]

@@BenKyoBaduk I'd love to see a video on invasions of the small dragonfly (4-4 and two keimas).

[@BenKyoBaduk]

@@jsmattsonjr Okay, I'll get to it at some point soon!