Open Borders? Immigration, Citizenship, and Nationalism in the 21st Century | Janus Forum Series

The Political Theory Project is proud to host David Miller, the Official Fellow and Professor in Social and Political Theory at Nuffield College in Oxford, and Joseph Carens, professor of Political Science at the University of Toronto, two of the leading moral thinkers in political potential and limitations of human migration. Professor Miller and Carens and will present their unique perspectives on immigration and national identity.
Friday, February 16, 2018
Brown University

[@ncarmstron]

Six years ago the rather sudden collapse of birth rates in developed countries wasn’t even part of the conversation. Today, we know we need immigration to sustain our economy and support our aging populace. In the U.S., as the birth rate falls well below the 2.1 magic number to keep the population at its current level, we probably need about 5 to 8 million immigrants per year-but we resist even 1/4 of that number. What could we be thinking? Answer: we aren’t. Our grandchildren will pay the price.

[@rajeshrana3555]

Pyros Dimas the weight lifter from Albania was world champion ,they honoured him with the highest national award , still he moved to Greece .Then Sulemaonue from Bulgaria to Turkey .The first one is enjoying in US ,the other could not produce a line in Turkey. A fellow named Shaquiri is in Swis rather than Kosovo ,then you have Cilic in Croatia not in Bosnia and Raonic in Canada instead of Montenegro. Now what is Nationality , citzenship and last of all loyality.

[@Cyprus_Is_Greek]

Pyros Demas is Greek

[@nikolairose2739]

1.5x>1x

[@ricardfranca6452]

thanks

[@stephensharp3033]

What if Texas was part of Mexico?

[@seanprobber7711]

The one who can't stop taking jabs at Trump doesn't make a single argument for immigration. All he does is bring up negatives illegal immigrants face when they come to America without addressing any native concerns. Horrible debate.

[@broscastefano]

Prof Miller addresses interesting topics, like community, the sense of being a nation, what makes the state as such, Prof Carens is just a peace and love hippie who has no idea (apparently) of how the world works.

[@vincentduhamel7037]

I found the feudalism analogy was pretty persuasive.

[@Jozaaaa]

Miller says culture should be preserved but admits he doesn’t know what culture is. Comical to say the least

[@ethanmorris2758]

I think the opposite. There are strong arguments to be made for limiting immigration, like Christopher Wellman's argument for the right a legitimate state possesses for political self-determination. Instead, David Miller just makes an argument essentially presuming white genocide (though he doesn't say it explicitly, he very specifically limits the dangers of immigration to the mass immigration of "culturally or demographically different" immigrants). In his written work about immigration, he makes a much stronger defense of restricted borders, not entirely based on cultural appeals. He also takes it as a given that immigration restrictions *can* be justified. The burden of proving this is on him and he just... doesn't. The argument made entirely for the preservation of a common culture is then exposed by Prof. Carens to be, essentially, an argument made in defense of one's birthright gained entirely by luck. I don't know if maybe you didn't watch Prof. Carens's whole construction, but he openly admits that open borders are controversial (read: idealistic) and not in line with "how the world works." He says that to take unjust institutions as a given because they're entrenched in modern society is to be complacent and allow those institutions to be legitimized.

[@broscastefano]

@@ethanmorris2758 We need borders, both physical and metaphorical, to organize our life, where my freedom ends? where yours begins? I agree we need all to work to minimize the birthright privileges to make the world a fairer place to live. I see the two thinkers show us two points of views whose combination will give us an answer: where we are now, where we want to be, how's our society is formed, how we would like to see it.

[@avokado9444]

@@broscastefano Prof Carens adressed your arguments. You need to provide good arguments for your views. Carens posts that it is unethical to hold your view. How will you defend borders from an ethical perspective? Like he said, he has no illusion that countries will suddenly open their boarders, however, that doesn't stop one to think it is unethically wrong to have them closed. Just like one might of thought that slavery wouldn't be abolished in 1 day, nevertheless you should still consider slavery an unethical system.