OpenAI Chaos Continues with Sunny Madra and David Sacks | E1852

(0:00) Recapping the chaotic past few days at OpenAI plus some immediate impacts from the fallout
(16:43) NetSuite - Download your free KPI Checklist at netsuite.com/twist
(17:46) David Sacks joins the show and explains why this situation is so unprecedented in Silicon Valley
(28:51) LinkedIn Marketing - Get a $100 LinkedIn ad credit at / thisweekinstartups
(30:18) How the board could have handled this better, Sam Altman's misaligned incentives packages (or lack thereof)
(37:14) Silicon Valley's battle-tested standard structure, and why you shouldn't innovate on corporate structure
(42:20) Brave - Try the Brave Search API at brave.com/jason
(43:34) Impact on startups reliant on OpenAI's models, a brutal momentum killer for OpenAI
(50:39) Predictions: Return of the King? Mass Exodus? Something else?
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[@alexbarn]

Appreciate you and team digging into all this. It’s going to be a great Netflix show!

[@startups]

craziness!!

[@petersuvara]

Popcorn time again in Tech. Thanks Jason for sharing the news!

[@samyueldanyo8679]

It is actually instrumental for the board of a non-profit to not have shares in the company. Otherwise the incentives are turned on their head.

[@anjilala]

What about the conflict of interests between Poe and Chat Gpt stores? You haven't mentioned that

[@nauy]

Has it ever occurred to David that it is Sam Altman that doesn’t want a compensation package? He made his money at Y Combinator not from any package but from self dealing. Having equity at those anointed startups with privileged access to GPT is how he is compensated. This kind of conflict of interest is the norm in SV.

[@Evangelionism]

2023 has been AMAZING to watch. I mean, look how much has transpired this year alone, between AI, news sites, gaming, journalism, political lawfare, tech, war, stock crashes and massive company failures, boycotts, closures, bank failures, new foreign conflicts, mass layoffs, etc. Crazy year! EDIT: I use "amazing" in the sense of unbelievable/thrilling/insane, not "yay!!!! Wooo!!!"

[@FinGeek4now]

They're lucky that the company isn't publicly traded as the actions of the board is a complete mismanagement of their fiduciary responsibilities. Not sure how this works when the company is private but with public and private backers, so who knows what we'll see from that end.

[@jeffsteyn7174]

If it's philosophy. Then the 4 board members where the only ones that were not aligned. Coz 700+ of the 770 have a different philosophy

[@StefanNorberg]

Sacks and Jason: "18 months went to 0 months head start. It's anybody's game now.". Markets: MSFT up 2%. What???

[@dalerwrightii]

Sunny is a great addition!

[@NorthStarPNW]

The Board was obviously in over their heads, but their attorneys probably advised them to keep the reason vague because of an inevitable lawsuit by Sam for wrongful termination.

[@kamikazekeebler]

Satya put all his chips into this basket and the things happening behind doors is wild in horrible ways.

[@arkhamnights]

In an interview Satya confirmed a bombshell that people are sleeping on. He confirmed that Microsoft is seeking a board seat and they don't appreciate being blindsided by major news Iike this. Pretty much debunking any hogwash rumors that they somehow orchestrated this behind the scenes. No it seems they played the hand that's in front of them about as good as you can play it. I think the ultimate resolution would be for Sam and company to be reinstated and Microsoft going to ask if not demand a seat on the board. Open AI relies on Azure service stack, Microsoft isn't a passive partner. To pull a move like this and not fill them in beforehand is borderline disrespectful. They are very much in bed together.

[@bencoleman8171]

What a wild ride! WTS.

[@atoghra1]

I hypothesize their debate revolves around their terms of service for the platform. When you try to create images with DALL-E, you realize it’s quite limiting to what kinds of images can be made. For example, no AI images are allowed of celebrities, politicians, and other icons of today’s culture. If they don’t allow more use cases for their platform, their competitors will.

[@opendigitaluniversity]

Many people seem to point to Ilya as the bad guy or at least the one who organized the "coup" but I think his intention was pure (although the way the board kicked Sam out, seemed like a stab in the back, which triggered the strong public response we've seen). Let's not forget he was instrumental to the founding of OpenAI (Elon himself said that recruiting Ilya to OpenAI was key). In the short term, much disruption for everyone. But in the long term, probably best since Sam (at Microsoft or a new startup he founds) will focus on commercialization while OpenAI, if it survives, will focus more on ethical/safe AI or AGI.

[@NorthStarPNW]

Ilya is proof that geniuses may be good at ONE thing, but they are not necessarily good at everything. (Ditto: Elon.)

[@opendigitaluniversity]

@@NorthStarPNW Why would you expect a genius to be good at everything? In Ilya's case, though, if he's able to architect an AGI (and I think he must have some idea of how AGI can be achieved given his severe concern about it, just like his former teacher Geoff Hinton), this AGI might actually become VERY GOOD at anything it does. It would be a bit like Khan, in the movie Star Trek -- created initially as a genetically engineered biological weapon. True, Ilya and the board might have been VERY clumsy in their attempt to fire Sam, but all in all and in the long term, it might be good for OpenAI to return to its research, non-profit roots while Sam and his team go on to commercialize AI for profit. Everybody wins. To have OpenAI be divided in two teams (those who want to slow down and those who want to accelerate) is like driving a car and pressing the gas pedal AND the brake at the same time!

[@opendigitaluniversity]

@@Sheldyck Possibly, but even if D'Angelo is the culprit, it's still mysterious to me HOW he was able to convince Ilya to go along as he's close to Greg and Sam. Another issue is, if Ilya was convinced about the necessity to fire Sam, how come he could not see steps ahead? Had Demis Hassabis been in Ilya's shoes, he possibly might have predicted the likely moves of Sam and colleagues (as Demis was a chess prodigy). It's possible Ilya is able to predict the exponential technical advancements of AI, but can't "see" clearly in human affairs. THIS IS A STRONG INDICATOR THAT REGULATION SHOULD NOT BE LEFT TO AI PEOPLE AS THEY MIGHT LACK THE FORESIGHT TO PREDICT HUMAN BEHAVIOR.

[@yoyoitsme]

already edited and released? cool!

[@andrewstorm8240]

They called a meeting on google meet yet Microsoft is a major stakeholder in the company - hello, teams!

[@ameremortal]

and Elon steps in and buys OpenAI. This is the kind of game Elon plays.

[@island97]

He cant buy openAi because its a non-profit. Lol

[@andrewstorm8240]

Where is Michael Lewis?

[@Corteum]

What are the chances that there was outside interference at play in this debacle?

[@antikras666]

sillicon valley does not exists (as finnland). all these podcasts are netflix shows. open ai is tv show from mars

[@boonkiathan]

I rather feel DevDay was desperate OpenAI has no moat and there are many many models rapidly rivalling GPT4 And the company is needing to ship more features just to maintain the public attention. And they cannot see anything beyond monetising their pro users using custom GPTs

[@bigredactionsportsstuff1245]

Grok, exists. OpenAI, combusts.

[@PeopleAdverts]

At what point does this mess effect Chat GPT my start up uses it every day and our product we are developing depends on it. Should we pause and see what happens or keep going thoughts?

[@NorthStarPNW]

Monday 9:15 pm PST: Is Sam definitely joining MSFT or not? Rumor tonight is he might still go back to OAI. Edit: Listening to the end of the podcast, it seems like there's now really nothing to go back to, OAI is a zombie that will get buried under a thousand lawsuits. Perhaps MSFT can scavenge key personnel and IP, and unsecured stakeholders will gnaw on the remaining carcass.

[@Maddy-kb2co]

He might still go back nothing signed with Microsoft.

[@jenniferlambert3886]

What a mess. For everyone. For all the stakeholders.

[@VideovigilanteUSA]

The Russian/Israeli /Canadian guy is problem or is it about a boomer level fear of Run away Ai of the compliance focused board ?

[@CarlosHfam]

Why is sacks from x? Sounds horrible. Better just to broadcast this from your live show

[@michaelgrey3083]

ya

[@mynameisnotyours]

Or do no H1B visas ever.

[@feroze170]

this is so odd, what is the reason?

[@stefaniagobessi8582]

Several years ago I watched the J-drama "Rich man, poor woman" where the CEO of a successful IT tech startup was fired by the board/his friend and then karma hit. As for the non-profit at the forefront of innovation, I do not agree with David Sacks: academic research (particularly in countries where univ is public, such as Europe etc) is the main source where of innovative ideas are developed...including AI, medicines (see gene editing etc).

[@PeachtreeFrenchies2]

So Microsoft wanted to own Sam

[@Gerardodfs]

Microsoft should buy the rest of ChatGPT

[@Dividerinchief]

H1b visas, something is better than nothing..

[@PeopleAdverts]

Can Microsoft not buy the rest of Open Ai and fire the board and a clear profit plan with governance.

[@gopherlee9427]

No, because of anti-trust.

[@ameremortal]

Why do I get the feeling Elon is behind all of this?

[@casanico2082]

Ur hypnotized. He's just always in the news. But Trump riding his coattails by filing lawsuit against media companies on the same day Elon does, now that's some predatory scheming

[@georgeg3711]

It's Bill

[@casanico2082]

​@@georgeg3711Clinton? Explain

[@Yoopsen213]

Because it’s the kind of scummy move he’d pull

[@frankvazquez5974]

Close. It's actually Netanyahu. And UFO's.

[@BigFattyNat]

altman has the charisma.of a wet rag. i evem forgot his name when i went to write this comment. no hate its just fact, hes not a jobs or musk not even close. he will fade away as 5 competitors level field. nobody will remember his name outside our niche in a couple years

[@StonedApe420]

Adam D'Angelo did it. Boycott Poe and Quora.

[@dawnfmEnthusiast]

JCAL ur my favorite bestie

[@jlbqi]

So sad that the conclusion is that non profits are awful compared to capitalism

[@bobtarmac1828]

Is OpenAi and The Ai New World Order out of order?

[@prval5989]

I knew they are going to move the conversation to Elon.. why these people push so much of Elons agenda

[@biscottigelato8574]

So both Jason and Sachs are basically full e/acc and think if Sam Altman is unleashed then the money's gonna roll in and life is good. Even tho their best bud and the richest bud of all thinks AI is gonna kill us all. No I'm not defending Ilya's execution here at all. But nobody is having any questions about the motivations at all? You really can't make someone sees what they are not paid to see. Even at this level. Unfortunate.

[@mynameisnotyours]

Effective Altruism and Safetyism is the latest, greatest female-led failure.