Silicon Valley's Cargo Culting Problem

When it comes to building a startup you’re never doing it entirely from scratch. Inspiration and ideas can come from a variety of places, including other successful startups. But there’s a thin line between borrowing smart ideas and copying them blindly - otherwise known as Cargo Culting. In this episode Dalton and Michael break down the problem with Cargo Culting and offer advice on the right way to draw inspiration from other successful companies.
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Chapters (Powered by bit.ly/chapterme-yc) -
00:00 - Coming Up
00:19 - Cargo Culting
00:35 - What Is It?
01:47 - Classic Variety
02:18 - Google Obsession
04:24 - Facebook Playbook
05:33 - Spend Like Uber
06:41 - Why It Worked?
10:27 - A New Problem
12:11 - A Superficial Facade
13:15 - The Three Levels
13:41 - Focus On The User
14:48 - Copy And Paste

[@ycombinator]

What are some other examples of cargo culting in tech and startups?

[@codegeek-il5fm]

AI in everything. Most are doing it because it's the cool thing to do.

[@PhysicsITGuy]

Having 0 measurement of user interaction with your product - just building features and interfaces without any meaningful evaluation of how people are using them.

[@withfirapp]

@@codegeek-il5fm AI generated because they are trying to please VC's not users lol

[@PplsChampion]

this is the #1 biggest universal problem in startups. "first we need to set up a continuous integration system and a ticket tracking system and agile practice".... planning for all the problems that will need to be solved when the company has 1000 employees long before there's any product whatsoever, like, dude, the team is only 2 people. get over yourself.

[@loslosbaby]

"We have to have an API"

[@syth9]

I love that KZbin CC kept transcribing “cargo culting” as “call girl quilting”.

[@carloslfu]

Software engineerings do that as well by blindly adding tech that's not necessary for their companies current stage and needs.

[@dqnamo]

Very very true, some of the tech stacks for early startups seem so unnecessary

[@randoms_eg6347]

For example: using micro services architecture in each and every software project they wok on , even if it has zero benefit !

[@senju31]

software engineer from Jamaica/Caribbean here and I made that mistake with my startup too.

[@Motivation2Invest]

I love the dynamic between these two guys, great energy and vibe. Keep it up!

[@VanillaEngineer]

I was so obsessed to Cargo-cult eBay and Google back in 2008. I didn't succeed to build the exact product(or even a good one), but I learnt a lot.

[@nidhi2581]

Thank you guys for making such videos! gives a lot of motivation to people who don't believe in the superficial facade of modern day startup buzz.

[@yamilletrivas8041]

I love these guys! They make these lessons so fun! 💓

[@Joelwilly57]

One example that comes to mind is you have to live in Silicon Valley to start a tech startup. I believe you make it with what you have and where you are.

[@mimi21746]

If you want great funding and talent + connections, Oh my you need to be in Silicon Valley. Yes, you can live elsewhere, but you or your company needs to be there sometimes if not most times, living in SV is another topic though.

[@loslosbaby]

I wish I could thumbs-up this 10x.

[@loslosbaby]

You DO have to live in Silicon Valley to get in on the Big Baloney Idea Grift and suck down easy money and do a bunch of BS until you fail. The default business plan is The Valley is "pay salaries and rent" until...

[@trevorwgoodchildx]

Great points - also if your startup is intrinsically motivated rather than extrinsically sometimes there will be a lot more successful foundations made, as it becomes not just about money but purpose. Which, if we are seeing anything from the ad fatigue in the the public, focus on purpose and authenticity has more traction than just kicking pain points

[@sergiomedal9842]

In Permaculture we say "From Pattern to Detail " , You need to understand the pattern to get details that wor fo your particular context

[@sicktastictv]

I learn so much from these two. Thank you for all the wisdom you two share!

[@Rach09_]

Same here true angels 😻

[@carlatashkadeh5890]

Thanks for doing these!

[@atti1120]

But does the superficial "looking like x" not also influence investors decisions? What are your thoughts on this? Does it just filter out bad investors, so it doesnt matter?

[@siansroadtonirvana]

Great episode gentlemen! 😊

[@clifferttreven7376]

Integrated thinking is the key note, thanks guys

[@anest-uk]

00:35 : "call girl quilting"🤣🤣🤣 yes please!

[@chapterme]

Chapters (Powered by ChapterMe) - 00:00 - Coming Up 00:19 - Cargo Culting Explained 00:35 - What Is It? 01:47 - Classic Variety 02:18 - Obsessed With Google 04:24 - Facebook Playbook 05:33 - Uber: Spend As Much Money As Possible 06:41 - Why It Worked? 06:47 - Google: Hiring Many Smart People 07:38 - Facebook: Not Charging Users 08:59 - Uber 10:27 - Morden Cargo Culting: Copying Companies That Haven't Succeeded. 12:11 - Founders Are Focused On The Superficial Things 13:15 - Three Levels Of Cargo Culting 13:41 - Think Through The User's Eyes 14:48 - You Can't Just Copy & Paste: Plagiarism vs Borrowing Good Ideas

[@Hastingsnow]

Thank you!

[@ManifestoPerUnAvatar]

as other have somewhat pointed to, this is a psychological phenomenon, but it comes with a positive side too. self suggesting yourself will work as long as your ideas are concordant with reality, but if you lack a manifesto or mission you will not be motivated to take action. product wise, you just need to solve a problem. but you do need to track attention to your brand, and learning from the best is not a bad idea. as long as you copy attitude, not just innest their ideas into another context :)

[@MubashirullahD]

Thanks

[@loslosbaby]

We turned down three guys in Shibuya (Japan) because their idea sucked, and then they got funded, and bought an _Exotic Red Car_ and drove it around, slowly, in traffic, with three guys in it (T-tops removed, one dude cracking and destroying the center console) and overheating it. They took the money and skipped to the bro-success stage in one hop.

[@basiccode-fd6xz]

Dalton is such a geek😂. He always says thanks at the end

[@harrison6082]

7:13 Easier to find great talent after an econ crash 11:27 Copying something that's not working 13:16 Levels of cargo culting 13:42 End thoughts on how to copy right

[@videomakville]

I believe the saying about Facebook/Privacy youse was trying to remember is "It's better to ask for forgiveness than permission" or something in that ball park

[@rahulbohra6196]

I think it could be portrayed as saving time by not iterating the same efforts done by someone, so just copy and step-up one step ahead.

[@animanaut]

serious question though: trying to copy something that worked somewhere else is an understandable gut instinct. but what about something like "state of devops report" that is more data oriented and trying to apply that to a company? i can still see how this might end up in the cargo culting end of the spectrum when it goes awry without carefully considering your individual context.

[@solothebest1]

I don’t know but wearing a black turtleneck really did convince people that Elizabeth Holmes was the female Steve Jobs. 😂

[@J3R3MI6]

Convinced women…😅

[@ahsanmohammed1]

What is each of your networth?

[@mjmikaelson]

13:46 I really like how Jan from WhatsApp did things. Him and his team was focused on the user. They were focused on making a good product and I think all companies and founders can learn from that.

[@chan90s]

Subtitles - Michael 'Cyborg' lol😂

[@natarajanshanker5103]

Hahahaha I like how the subtitles turned it into "call girl quilting".

[@mohey2222]

The most prevalent example of this right now is integrating AI into anything and everything without seemingly giving it a thought. I mean, it's one thing to actually recognize the value AI can bring to your product but it's a whole other thing to just assume adding AI automatically means you're not going to be left behind and become obsolete. I feel like currently there's much more of the latter.

[@Fs3i]

I think you're wrong on this. AI is not successful for long enough for a cargo cult to develop, this is perhaps a hype-cycle. And a hype-cycle is different from a cargo cult in important ways. My personal take is that it's a real innovation, and adding it, or at least experimenting, *is* a real requirement for startups.

[@bright7522]

Interesting how they tried to avoid a proper explanation of where the cargo cult term came from

[@XBH3]

In a sort of post ironic twist of fate the lack of knowledge or understanding of what the origin and explanation of what a cargo cult is makes this video that much better because they engage in the behavior

[@johnnyBrwn]

Honestly, when I learned it in Anthropology it was dense for me to understand. I don't think this audience is fresh out of Anthropology 101 to even have been able to follow it. They likely knew this.

[@DeepfriedBaby]

This video is 2 guys Monday morning quarterback commentating. I don’t think they did any preparation for this at all.

[@savannah335]

Theranos was the ultimate Silicon Valley cargo cult.

[@loslosbaby]

Love this channel, love these two guys particularly, appreciate the good advice in general... but they missed the WW2 origin story: The air strips were made on jungle islands of the Pacific war of World War Two... the air strips were put there as part of a total-loss operation...war is not profitable to the entity that wages it. Not getting political, but the air strips were put in places that pertained to MILITARY operations against Japan, aka, the locations were THE WORST possible place for an airstrip to "bring you the cargo". Long point right? Startups are 90% based on pure nonsense, wrong customers, no customers, no future customers, VC's are your friend. All totally insane in my book.

[@imadtaieberrahmani9221]

One of the superficial things that startups do, mentioning that they are "Backed by YC" on their website and their Linkedin, how the users are going to benefit from that?

[@nathanwailes]

Great discussion!

[@segefjord]

KZbin CC: 00:18 "This is Michael Cyborg..." 🤖

[@flaguser4196]

they blindly copy because they also know VCs will blindly fund them. nobody cares about real profit.

[@ryzeruffort]

The whole "Dont redesign the wheel" phrase has gotten many startup copy catting themselves. When you copy, copy right.

[@kanewaterworth3711]

so much wisdom !

[@JordanMattKim]

prefer a lower and more zoomed-in camera angle

[@galleon8129]

I thought they were referring to Threads

[@ranicket]

"Do things that don't scale" is often misused.

[@mohdmajid1]

lyft worked

[@echavarria87]

Pepsi worked

[@ZiyadMir]

Nobody: … Absolutely Noone: … Michael Seibel: Yes. 😂🎉 We love it - keep the YC content coming!

[@breakdown9526]

This video: "YES" "YES" *NODS HEAD* "YES"

[@MrTobi4]

Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Seek what they sought.

[@animanaut]

lol, turn on cc for comedic effect

[@nidhi2581]

It would be great if you could also talk about excellence versus mediocrity based out of how startups work.

[@mus3equal]

Amazing stuff, thank you for all these little insights, absolutely invaluable. I'm creating a platform where I can reward users for their contributions. Let's achieve great things together!

[@bearparts]

Do you mean like CLONING?

[@crazieeez]

Adding AI to your company doesn’t make you an AI company. Also using chat gpt in your company’s product does not make you an AI company.

[@natarajanshanker5103]

"I have to have a co-founder..." - oh wait, that's the cargo-culting VCs *do* want you to do. For their own reasons.

[@kanewaterworth3711]

modern cargo cult=AI start up

[@growingtolive2383]

I cannot stand how many terms and phrases the tech startup industry creates. Similar to the excessive amount of “buzzwords” or acronyms in the industry. It’s like you’re trying to blame, put off, judge, or create an excuse to side-step any association with new founders who didn’t have a pre-existing career in tech.

[@ycombinator]

Not a term the "tech startup industry" invented. This is a concept developed from anthropologic research 70+ years ago: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult_science

[@inflationking1271]

This stuff only worked because of free VC money due to zero interest rates. This has been great since 2008. The party is over

[@loslosbaby]

Do you remember Google Labs? Microsoft Labs? circa 2000, "we're going to hire 5000 PhD's"? Anyone?

[@BuckFanks]

Monkey see, Monkey do. Monkey me, Monkey new.

[@rahulupadhyay6272]

:)

[@DeepfriedBaby]

Surprised how oblivious these guys are. A lot of these predate Google/Facebook/Uber.

[@paulm6081]

Thats not the etymology if cargo cult at all. A cargo cult is when pacific islanders found cargo from crash planes on their island in wwii. There is a cargo cult around prince phillip for example. They worship him like a god as he gives free cargo from the air. You could also just use the term “Superstitious pigeons or skinners box” to refer to the point you are making en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult

[@paulm6081]

No runways built, but similar idea. Making belief out of thin air

[@ycombinator]

From wikipedia: "They focus on obtaining the material wealth (the "cargo") of the advanced culture by imitating the actions they believe cause the appearance of cargo: by building landing strips, mock aircraft, mock radios, and the like." This is the exact mentality many early founders have when trying to replicate another successful business without a full understanding of what actions led to that success.