Orchestration Book Club: Adler's The Study of Orchestration

[@michaelleibsonthinkingmusi2895]

Thanks for this excellent review, Thomas, and especially for reaching out to Norton on behalf of the world of composers and orchestrators who, tho' not (or who are no longer) in university, are truly dedicated to the art that Adler worked so hard to foster. From your lips to Norton's ears . . .

[@jeremebonesaw]

So I asked a seller on ebay about buying a used book of the 4th edition. He said the online audio/video comes with it.....but only is good for 360 days. That is such a burn.

[@sethraymondmusic]

I am a starting composer still in high school, have had no formal training, and use the internet for mostly all learnings on composition. I totally agree that huge numbers of people could be reached with just a small amount of internet presence. even with this one short video, they've sold one more copy to a learning composer, without a professor requiring it, and without any money spent on advertising.

[@sorartificial]

It will be nice if he could add in the 5th edition a section for ethnic instruments and choir. (Soprano,alto, etc )

[@agodsey1]

Professor Goss, I sent you my violin solo assignment (A. Godsey). I am so grateful for this tremendous course. Thanks.

[@pessilevanto8074]

It's a must buy anyway, but thank you for going through this!

[@rasmusallansson2305]

The digital resources are now up and available to use for everybody with a copy of the book whether you're a student or not.

[@OrchestrationOnline]

Yes. And just to clarify once again - people are misunderstanding my comments to mean that only university students may access the digital resources. I didn't say that at all. I merely pointed out that the way the book is being sold doesn't take into account the many readers and buyers of this book who aren't university students.

[@GTBannah]

This is a very scholarly review. I look forward to starting my journey with this book. Thank you!

[@sashakindel3600]

I suppose the bassoons are oboes make a " double reed family" sort of like bass trumpets and higher trumpets make a family; similarity of construction (though less similarity than the trumpets), but split between high instruments and low instrument specialists. It makes me wonder if oboists would have an easier time with the alto bassoon which, in the few times I've seen it demonstrated on KZbin, played by bassoonists, hasn't come across flatteringly.

[@thekingsown10]

What's the difference between the international students edition vs the regular ?

[@maxcohen13]

Great review. I'm looking forward to seeing if there are any changes to the multimedia for this latest edition. I suspect they didn't include readers outside of any academia because of the longstanding practice of gouging the student with textbook prices. I'm convinced publishing companies think if the student is willing to spend $8000/semester, what's another $750 for class textbooks?

[@jorgestramusic]

Excellent review dear Thomas!

[@jorgestramusic]

Great review Maestro Goss !.... Thanks to you I'm getting this !

[@samuelwnovak]

First off, I want to commend you on Orchestration Online as a whole; your content is absolutely top-notch. Secondly, I'd be curious to get your opinion (if you have one) on Alfred Blatter's "Instrumentation and Orchestration".

[@OrchestrationOnline]

+sam novak Thanks very much, Sam! I hope to get to Blatter someday. My very brief feedback on Blatter is that I appreciate his individual sense of organisation. I would have to look at it closer to really evaluate the writing style, which makes a much bigger difference than is sometimes thought.

[@erniesinger8768]

How does Rimsky-Korsakov's book compare?

[@natedawww]

It's my understanding that they also added a chapter on Wind Band scoring.

[@AndrewRudin]

When it first came out (ed. 1) I used this book for one semester in my Advanced Orchestration class. I found it highly unsatisfactory, because of the huge number of errors, and the decision to print examples of very large orchestral scores shrunken to a size that would fit in the dimensions of a text book. I felt the book should come with a microscope. I recall a student submitting a piece, and I asked him, "why on earth did you keep the horn constantly in such a low register", and his said it was because of the range given in the book. When we looked it up, sure enough, a clef was missing in the entry for horn. I gather that many of these errors were corrected in later editions (and a great many of these errors were generously supplied to the publisher by Kent Kennan, who might have had reasons NOT to help a competitor), but I was never convinced to use it as more than a reference (among many)

[@alyssaregent-composer9713]

Good Morning Mr. Goss, I am really interested into composing and orchestration but I'm still a first year music student, I got the Study of Orchestration third edition 2 years ago as a gift, should I buy the new edition now that I am actually studying music or should I wait and just use my edition ? Thanks!

[@OrchestrationOnline]

Hi Alyssa! You should just use your old copy. The 3rd edition is very much the same as a 4th except for the online digital resources. I own the 2nd and the 4th, and I still use my old copy of the 2nd most of the time.

[@alyssaregent-composer9713]

Great! Thank you very much!! :)

[@heavyweaponsgaming]

I might buy this for the MOOOC, but I don't have a very large budget to spend on music (college is coming up.) The only orchestration textbook I have is Rimsky-Korsakov's, but I don't know if it's suited well for the MOOOC. Should I go ahead and get this book (and forgo buying other learning materials) or try to use RK's book for the MOOOC and buy this when I have a larger music budget (if I need it later on)?

[@OrchestrationOnline]

Hi! Don't rely on R-K for your main book, because that is a treatise in orchestral blending and not a manual. Try to loan Piston, Adler, or Kennan from your library if you're on a budget, or pick up a used copy of any of the three. You don't have to get this edition - the 2nd and 3rd will do fine for the MOOOC course.

[@heavyweaponsgaming]

That's what I figured. I've been looking around local libraries for a few days and can't find anything at all on orchestration (not even in their networks), but I'll find a copy online. Thanks for the help and thank you so much for offering the course.

[@rafaelhernandez5550]

This book is great but I have a problem with my vision and the tex is too small and they don`t have a pdf copy that I could magnify.Thanks

[@OrchestrationOnline]

Can you use a magnifying glass? Such as those made specifically for those with poor eyesight?

[@canberkimben]

Amazing video, you helped a lot!

[@DaveVillaV]

I bought the last edition with access code and I ended completely annoyed because of the one year expiration access to the multimedia online content and I'm still very much upset about. In that case I'd rather buy the third edition CD, and not paying those guys anualy accessl... The same happened with "the history of western music" last edition

[@Enogimka]

I'm not a university student and I wish I could get this book in it's integrate without having to go on their online service to does't seem quite friendly for people like me that wants to learn. I also read comments and review that said you have a yearly fee or something like that in order to keep having access to their multimedia stuff on their sites. Kind of glad I stumble up on your video about this book I've been thinking of getting but I might way for the fifth edition if they can fix their yearly fee cause I wanna learn about it in my free time. Still feel like a good book to have around but the thing that stop me for now is the limited access to the media stuff online.

[@OrchestrationOnline]

Hi Enogimka! I doubt that a 5th edition will appear anytime soon. Adler has said that this will be the last edition that he'll be involved with editing. His publishers may choose to update the book someday in the future, but I wouldn't wait around for that. Btw, I don't have anything to do with this book. You wrote "you have a yearly fee," maybe that was a mistranslation. The publishers of Norton books charge fees for people to access the materials after the the book's first term of access expires. I don't know the details about that, but I may revisit the topic in a future video. Maybe my macProVideo orchestration series might be more useful to you, as it has many demonstrations by musicians integrated into its training.

[@Enogimka]

About the yearly fee I discovered about it by reading an Amazon review of the product. Sorry I didn't wrote it that obvious when mentioned the yearly fee. I got this book as a reference on a Finale support group on facebook. It seems like a pretty good book but the thing that makes me think twice about buying the book is the accessibility on long term to the addition video and audio content. That comes with the book but online and not on a CD or something like that. Also I'm trying to learn that on my own so as of for now I don,' have a teacher to help me with orchestration, so it's really kind of important for me to get the additional content for ever as to my first book of reference on the topic of orchestration. I also just realized I might be able to buy the third edition instead of the latest, but I'll look a little more into it before making my move of buying it.....

[@OlDrake]

Any idea how the "International Student Edition" differs from the regular edition of the 4th edition. There's a big leap in price and was just curious; I can't find any explanation online.

[@OrchestrationOnline]

There's virtually no difference except for a soft cover.

[@OlDrake]

thank you!

[@TheM4rster]

International versions are prohobited for distribution in the original market (this case, the US and Canada). Must be some legal thing. I believe the international versions can also be reprints from other places that are way cheaper than the original version (happened to me for an Engineering book).

[@anthonydang6727]

Is it worth buying if you have the third edition more readily available?

[@Nicdehouwer]

Hi, good video :) are the Norton online resource issues fixed yet? I just bought the book, and I'm a train engineer.

[@OrchestrationOnline]

Anyone who purchases the book may use the online resources. My video doesn't say that you can't. It just says that Norton should be acknowledging that many people who aren't university students use this book.

[@Nicdehouwer]

@@OrchestrationOnline I now read online that Norton charges an additional ANNUAL cost of 40 USD (nearly the price of the book) for access to the online files. That's an outrage.

[@OrchestrationOnline]

@@Nicdehouwer Well, at least you should be able to access the resources for the first year, I think. Unless your book is used.

[@Nicdehouwer]

@@OrchestrationOnline oh, cool :) I hope so. My copy's fresh from amazon.

[@brunocoliveira89]

I did the mistake to buy the 3rd edition last year, I really didn’t know of this 4th ed. was coming otherwise I would have wait a bit more :(

[@FirebrandSWE]

A bit of a heads-up: The code provided with the book only gives you access to the online materials for 360 days. After that, you will need to purchase further access, though unfortunately this option only seems to be available for North American customers currently. Hopefully WW Norton will reevaluate how they're handling these online resources. This comment refers to the paperback International Students Edition of the book.

[@TheM4rster]

I also have the international 4th edition. You can download the files with google chrome: open files in new tab (middle mouse click) and download them one by one. Slow, but all the files are correctly labeled already when downloaded.

[@contrapunctusmammalia3993]

Mine seems only to have allowed access for 5 days, I registered on the 29 of jan, logged in again 5 days later but Iogged in again today and it said that access was denied on the 2 of Feb!

[@thisaudientlife5425]

"Hopefully WW Norton will reevaluate how they're handling these online resources." Nope, they ripped me off, no more access after 360 days even if you want to pay for more access.

[@michaelleibsonthinkingmusi2895]

@@TheM4rster Thanks for this valuable tip! If you have a moment, could you expand a little on the technique you used to do this? Were you on a Mac of PC? (my middle mouse click turns chrome tabs OFF!)

[@jeremebonesaw]

@@TheM4rster thank you so much for letting me know!!! Almost wasn't going to buy because not being able to is bs. Will it work for the non international/regular edition??

[@urielterry]

dude, is there some difference between the workbooks of 3rd and 4th editions?

[@OrchestrationOnline]

Dude, I have no idea! Probably not too much. :D

[@fadyboles2100]

Would you recommend this book to a beginner orchestration student? If not, what else would you recommend?

[@OrchestrationOnline]

Hi Fady, best first manual is Walter Piston's Orchestration. Read that first. Then if you get more serious, pick up the Adler.

[@JonathanHarker]

It is a great resource, I have it on the shelf from when I was at Vic. It's just a pity that nearly everything he has to say about the contrabass trombone is just plain wrong. He makes no mention of the F instruments which have long since replaced the cumbersome B♭ double slide model, confuses it with the cimbasso, and then writes (p. 377): "The contrabass trombone is very difficult to play, especially since a great deal of breath is required ... We advise you not to write for this instrument; parts originally written for it are now played on the tuba." None of that is true of modern F instruments; I doubt parts have been played on tuba in professional orchestras for at least a couple of decades, probably longer; and the work of LA freelance players like Phil Teele and Bill Reichenbach has ensured the contrabass trombone is now frequently encountered in film scores.

[@thisaudientlife5425]

Great book. Does anyone have the CD's for the 3rd or 4th edition they would like to sell? Norton cut off your audio access after one year and wont let me pay for another year's access. Heaven knows why.

[@韦羽凡]

you can use a inter-recording recorder software to get the audio and name them,so that you can own the audio forever.

[@thisaudientlife5425]

@@韦羽凡 Thanks for your suggestion. I solved this issue in Australia - talk to your local or state library and for a small postage fee you can borrow Edition 3 CD's with the examples on it and short videos of each instruments. Then you can buy The Study of Orchestration 3rd edition book, and with the money you save buy Thomas Goss' 100 Orchestration Tips and the upcoming 100 More Orchestration Tip. Then, like the Hot Chocolate song: everyone's a winner! Including WH Norton, who get a lesson in how not to dupe money out of non-US buyers of their book and can use that lesson to make available to non-US students paid access each year to the on line audio (currently US$40 to US students.

[@usamahBlackLove]

It would nice if Adler's Orchestration book chapter on the Horn wasn't screwed up.... This coming from a Horn player AND composer

[@KarunoLeKarnal]

Damn ! I got myself the 3rd edition no more than 3 months ago ! :D

[@brunocoliveira89]

+Karuno LeKarnal I got mine last year :(

[@89gerardo]

i got mine 1 month ago :/

[@OrchestrationOnline]

Hey you guys, it's all cool. The 3rd edition is perfectly fine. Much of the writing of the sections is the same as the 4th.

[@KarunoLeKarnal]

+OrchestrationOnline Actually the translator fixed some of the issues you've mentionned, such as the oboe and the bassoon belonging to the same family. It also as two exclusive chapters on human voice ; so really I don't regret buying it :-p

[@bordeauxcolor]

I got mine almost 3 years ago. Up to this moment, I don't own money to spend on this fourth edition.

[@Ung97]

Your assumption is right. This book looks incredibly interesting, but I've never heard of it. And I doubt any of my friends have.

[@michaelleibsonthinkingmusi2895]

Would anyone who has Adler's 4th edition of "The Study of Orchestation" be willing to 'review' the "online resources" that accompany the text? For example, are the recordings as detailed and specific as those contained in the 3rd edition's 6-CD set (which, alas, I don't own)? Does anyone have a rough estimate of the total duration of those audio and visual online resources? As well, seeing that buying the text only covers one year (maximum) of access to that material (without subsequent subscription -- which may or may not be available to those not living in North America), could those resources be captured and saved (given the appropriate software) for one's future reference? Thanks, in advance, for any relevant info!

[@jeremebonesaw]

I asked someone on ebay about the online audio. Unfortunately, it is only on new versions....but it is only good for 360 days . If you buy used you will not get it.

[@SouloftheTroll]

yes, detailed and valuable