Ordinary, but Valuable: An Examination of the Bottle Cap

[@NateRiverAkiba_key]

Both RadKing and N_orte uploading, each one, videos about Fallout currency almost at the same time. Has to be a sign, gotta start collecting bottle caps.

[@jonathanwind6275]

I already have several hundred I have them for cosplay and random diy projects

[@peepsbates]

@@jonathanwind6275 I have them as mixing pots for model paint. They can take a few drops of Revell paint from a dropper. Perfect for hand painting 1/72 WW2 models when you live in a place where you can't have the room for a proper painting setup.

[@obiwankenny1966]

Don't bother with bottle caps. Water. Water will be the new gold.

[@bradameerbeg2154]

Way ahead of you there, lol

[@VTOLxEmpire99]

I was just about mention they both had a similar video so soon to each other lol 🤣🤣🤣

[@nicowokeuplikethis9145]

RadKing just uploaded a video talking about gold bars as currency just about an hour ago, the timing couldn't more be perfect.

[@Maxsmack]

i came here just to say this but you beat me too it just like rad king did to norte

[@Maxsmack]

everyone is the comments talking about how rad king just uploaded a very similar video shows how inter connected the fallout community is. i wonder how large the over lap is between these two communities. for all we know it could be like 85%

[@banebeard]

I don't think everyone that was at the Whitespring left when the robots "asked", around back in a maintenance area there's a couple dumpsters full of skeletons. Guess they were serious about the vacate part.

[@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz]

Currency, or a trade medium, basically stops life from being an endless series of fetch quests.

[@ineptitude]

I always get a chuckle when Something Awful comes up in lore deep dives. It’s just a place Josh Sawyer happened to hang around for a bit, and yet it’s there where he outlined the majority of his thoughts about the inner workings of the NCR & Legion at the height of the war.

[@mkepioneet]

SA had a very sizable impact on the modern internet, at least in humor (such as @dril)

[@Reefer-Rampage69]

@@mkepioneet SA? What the hell is something awful? I’ve been on the internet and KZbin for 16 years and never heard of that

[@JudoGeoff]

Funny that I read this comment at just about the same time he was mentioning SA in the video.

[@vipguy64]

@@Reefer-Rampage69Something Awful is a forum website. Off topic, but Slender Man originated from a user on the Something Awful forums.

[@hammantor6145]

@@Reefer-Rampage69 old internet form

[@willferrous8677]

The strange case of Dr. Norte and Mr. Rad

[@mkepioneet]

0:55 technically no, research has proven that exchange was facilitated differently as debt. But I understand it as a framing device for the video 😁 Also, I hate it when people get mad at FO2 because "fallout= caps." Like dude, that's a post FO3 because the Vault Dweller got most of their money for jobs through hub bucks and only got caps off of dropped loot

[@lilchris9cmb]

IIRC, another reason why it was chosen and generally accepted was because of two reasons; The pre-war currency was already devalued before the war due to major inflation (a Slocum's Joe sign in fallout 4 advertises a dozen donuts for $200 USD as an example), thus would suffer even more inflation after the bombs. It would only make sense to be used with specific automated vendors that cannot reason or be reprogrammed with a change in currency, such as the holograms Sierra Madre Casino. Another would be the fact that Nuka Cola was essentially everywhere. In almost every pre war building, you could find a Nuka Cola vending machine. They are common enough to be found by an average scavenger (unlike taking literal gold or other metals/gems), but rare enough to be used as a currency.

[@oldbadgui3351]

Listen. It is simple. It is because of CAP-italism.

[@fategamingandhighlights]

Does not suprise me that Nuka Cola went for the White Spring deal seems like they have a hand in every pre war business and military.

[@Matt-md5yt]

is like Private Companies sponsor war or something. heck the company that Nuka is parodied of had a military

[@sadsworth4605]

What are you implying 😮

[@BOKCGrizzlyWarlord]

I really enjoy these longer videos. Just a good media to watch as I wander the commonwealth wasteland

[@wyvolf]

Pretty epic video!!! I think it was Doctor Mobius from the OWB DLC to predict the use of caps being the currency of a post apocalyptic environment. Lucky guess if anything if not my guy was tripping on mentats and had a brain blast "what if" Bottle caps will certainly out last things such as the NCR dollar and legion coins, etc, too much of the wasteland uses caps country wide and quite honestly I wonder if the bottle cap system also extended to other countries post the war. Who knows might get a Metro 2033 reference where Russia uses bullets as currency instead of caps for example. Etc.

[@motivatedman4630]

Except that currency ammo in metro is military grade ammo. If you use then as ammo, they are much, much better than your average 5.45 rounds. In fallout military grade is actually weaker, according to Chet.

[@joeblow8982]

How do you figure a bottle cap would outlast a coin. You've held both of these things before right?

[@wyvolf]

@@motivatedman4630 originally added military grade and went: "mm better just say bullets", it was 1 am when I wrote the comment (aussie) It was a statement referring to other countries that have been royally (f word)ed from the nuclear war which i think is fun to theorize in general and if bethesda wanted to i'm 99% sure they'll be allowed to reference metro in some form when mentioning what the hell happened to other countries which lead me with saying how russia might use bullets (which as said: i know in canon metro series used military grade i have played games and currently reading the books), hell other places like australia (which imo would be such a fun place for a fallout game) could use different means or even use the caps system.

[@wyvolf]

@@joeblow8982 Yes I was holding a coke-cola lid in my hand a few moments ago. Coins, and general current day currency, only mean as much as the government/banks say it is. And while coins can last a while bottle caps esp those made from metals can last just as long.

[@joeblow8982]

@cosmohause dude. You said cheap tin bottle caps metal would "outlast" solid metal coins. That's just blatantly false. That *should be* obvious to anyone who's actually handled both of these things. But apparently you think otherwise. 🤷‍♂️ What you're describing is a fiat money system. The problem is that you've got it completely backwards. Precious metals will always have value to humans. They always have. Gold, silver, copper, iron, steel... these all have value beyond what any bank ascribed them when minting it into coins. Bottle caps would be demonstrably less stable, both physically and fiscally. Sorry man

[@andraakmalmaulidani1793]

One thing i love about new vegas is that they had many new mechanic that isn't explore throughly. Like you can gamble and play caravan to make money, A new travelling merchant with an actual route rather than just spawn randomly. And my fav was the different currency with NCR money, and Legion coin, i love how the casino dealer can exchange it to caps or to casino chips. But unfortunately it didn't had many use out of it, it will be great if there is an actual unique trader who only accept that kind of currency within their teritorial (NCR teritory only accept NCR money and etc), and it will be much greater if the merchant sells unique items relate to the faction, like maybe NCR trader will sell military NCR stuff or something back from shady sand. And the same thing goes with Legion trader, maybe sells stuff from New Reno or smth.

[@kyleellis1825]

It was a neat idea in a lowbudget Fallout 1. It was removed in F2. Brought back when BEthesda bought the series as a way to link the rpg to an isometric game. Realistically, coins would have been used instead of incredibly flimsy bottlecaps.

[@TheDizzieC]

You also forget how currency was good for soldiers and wanderers. Pre-currency most communities used a system of informal credit amongst themselves. Local guards could be feed and bed by their immediate family, but what about mercenaries and soldiers? People from out of town passing through from one place to another? Sure a poor wanderer could help you with some chores, but it's easier to just be a good person and offer them food and shelter before they head on their way. Soldiers though, are different. Especially those sent by a king. If the soldiers just ate and slept in random houses and nothing bad happens: you're risk pissing off the locals as the debt they feel owed piles up. So you give soldiers coins and then tell the peasants they have to pay you back in that coin or else the King and his soldiers have the right to take your property as payment. As a present you just have to accept the coins in exchange for giving soldiers food and shelter and the end of the year you give the coins back so it can start all over again. Now Money is valuable to everyone and the peasants start trading the coins amongst themselves.

[@die_buecher7090]

I dont want to sound disrespectful but on what historic accounts is this text based? As far as I know, there was already money in the societys that created mercenarys and/or professional soldiers. Prior to that, warfare consisted of some sort of conscripted members of the group/tribe.However it is also important to note how early some sort of currency came in to existence. Even the traders in the stone age(yes there were traders in the stone age) traded mostly with widely accepted things like flint spearheads. I think you messed the story with the king and the soldiers up with the history of european paper money.

[@TheDizzieC]

@@die_buecher7090 David Graeber, in general. He was a historian who focused on money. "5000 years of Debt" is really good insight into our understanding of the history of money and debt.

[@Matt-md5yt]

that is cool that you and RadKing both talked about the same topic. just great minds think alike

[@dennisnastasi2000]

Great explanation. It feels like I am in my college economics class. You know your stuff!

[@ducoschollmeijer4841]

Amazing video! Keep up the good work!

[@marcelczerwinski6038]

Thanks for making my Saturday after work better bro

[@joeblow8982]

I wonder how many kids watching this just learned we use a fiat money system and their money only holds the value we say it does 😂

[@Vinny_Havoc]

I'd like to point out that the trouble with the NCR was due not only to gold reserves being plundered, but the BoS also deliberately irradiated their gold reserves, denying access, ad thus rendering it useless as a commodity currency backing. The radiation was too severe to recover the gold in significant quantities. Gold is still considered valuable, but there's too little of it readily availale to back a currency. Also, the NCR paper money wasn't actually fiat, technically, it was commodity backed. Again, by water, from a similar cabal of merchants and water traders that backed the bottlecap originally. However since so much time has passed, multiple sources of clean (or at least not irradiated) water have been found, more large scale water filters have gone online, and with the rediscovery and occupation of Hoover Dam, the clean Lake Mead pipes water back to the NCR. This makes water, though still valuable, far less so than in the past and makes the backing o the NCR paper dollar, nicknamed a 'waterbuck,' more unstable and less valuable as a currency.

[@Vantud391]

Maybe we should start collecting bottle caps too😅

[@gaelangaudette9576]

You and RadKing should do a collaboration. This is a sign!

[@eliosklefti4863]

I have a theory and that is what if caps were introduced in the capital wasteland by the bos and enclave as they came from out west and just in time before any critical plot points. Think of it this way if the talon company are backed by the enclave to commit acts of violence so nobody oppresses them again a theory but this one has a lot of evidence too. In order to hire any mercenaries they’d ask for caps up front provided by Eden’s enclave. Thus caps became integral in Dc and maybe commonwealth. This theory even extends into dlc like Asher’s Pitt as a former west Bos member he’d make caps the only currency.

[@fenbyrat]

I think while its possible, chances are the capital wasteland was using caps long before the Enclave showed up considering its the currency before you exit the vault and have been referenced when talking about the past as well. Considering caps were used in west virginia and players visit the pitt during the events of fo76, I believe cap usage spread to dc from there. There is some merit to your theory though, I wouldn't be surprised if the fo76 enclave helped solidify the usage of caps on the east coast as well!!

[@RDeathmark]

It's cuz bottlecaps are like coins

[@aerystargaryenii2565]

Life would be short but it would be worth it.

[@hazcat640]

Ap-a-LAY-chia I grew up there.

[@mikekz4489]

A shame Fallout 76 is online only, there’s actual lore being established with that game.

[@bethlaria812]

Thank you for a great vid!!! didnt know the bottlecap was backed by water!!!

[@Vaultboy-ke2jj]

The nuclear war in Fallout resulted in “the deaths of hundreds of thousands”. Think you massively underestimated that…

[@lmGoldyy]

Another killer video

[@Seventh_Bean]

People comparing you to Radking like you're not superior in every way. For shame.

[@Pimp_Shrimp]

They can both be cool.

[@CyborgCharlotte]

I only ever used Legion Coins to make explosives or shotgun rounds. The Legion is so useless that their currency has more value as ammo XD

[@Collectiveofworms]

Do you and radking schedule your uploads together lmao

[@toaolisi761]

I think as a collective human society, we should all decide now on what will be the currencey for the apocolypse survivors. The Fallout games already laid the ground work.

[@RiveryJerald]

jesse wtf are you talking about?

[@debwyatt7600]

@@RiveryJerald nice cod pfp btw 👊

[@Matt-md5yt]

heck Metro also helped

[@Bluis5445]

You can copy my homework just don’t make it look the same- Radking

[@CorvoFG]

I get what you’re saying, two money videos in the same day. I don’t think Norte is that sort of guy tho. Just coincidence.

[@stephenknizek2651]

@@CorvoFGor maybe RadKing and N_orte are the same person. Have we ever seen them in the same room together? 🤔

[@Jaysin412]

Came to say that radking just dropped a similar video today. Lol

[@matthewflores4183]

@@CorvoFG yeah but damn...Norte is saying similar things that rad king said lol. Gotta be a coincidence but damn if this doesn't make someone look bad

[@Red_04]

@@matthewflores4183 dont really see how it makes anyone look bad. There would've only been (roughly) 1.5 hours for Norte to work on this which is almost certainly not enough time. Would be a different story if it were released a bit further apart though.

[@longbong42]

Yooo I didn’t know there was a Chicago brotherhood chapter cool

[@neves5083]

You and RadKing had agree on a date to launch the same video ? Lmao

[@rancidavocado2166]

Fallout fanon hive mind confirm

[@yayvideogames8032]

water might've been worth a lot, but my 10 LCK courier singlehandedly ruined the economy in vegas

[@JackFranz97]

Imho, the writing about the origins of the bottle cap currency in the East Coast is pretty bad. I mean, it's more convoluted than the West Coast one, but is overall more... stupid, I guess. It really feels like a made-up explanation to justify the presence of bottle caps in F76, one of many that make me generally dislike lore-writing of that entry in the series.

[@justnoob8141]

So you’re saying that inflated money being more inflated is more convenient for economy that no longer exist and government that no longer enforce faith in the letter?

[@JackFranz97]

@@justnoob8141 no, just saying that F76 reason for bottle caps being there is pretty stupid. It's not stupid that people in the wasteland decided to use that as the West Coast people did; it's just that the reason why the Whitespring uses bottle caps sounds awfully made up

[@shaunmcknight7537]

Kaiser? Don’t you mean Caesar?

[@Assassam1]

It's the pronunciation used in classical latin. That's also where the German word comes from. So basically Julius Caesar was pronounced as he said it. The modern English pronunciation is closer to eclesiastical latin, used by the catholic church/Vatican. So technically his pronunciation is historically more accurate. Since it isn't pronounced like that in Fallout NV however, I totally agree with you; Caesar would make more sense than Kaiser (both pronunciations are spelled the same in latin). Hope this was informative 😉👍 Edit: I totally misremembered. Caesar actually pronounces it Kaiser in the game.

[@justnoob8141]

Apparently, it’s actually the same picture

[@theboycee1]

Currency as we know it is called feat money. No sure if I've spelled that correctly but basically feat money means that governments have decided that it has worth.

[@Yumao420]

*fiat

[@gaelangaudette9576]

​@@Yumao420 beat me to it.

[@theboycee1]

@@Yumao420 yeah I didn't think I had spelled that correctly

[@javierrodriguezlopez4675]

whaaat both radking and N_ort made very similar videos. what does this mean.

[@garethmartin6522]

I'm afraid the explanation of the origin of money and trade is quite wrong. But it's not your fault, that is the conventional explanation, but it is not correct. In prehistoric times people could indeed do everything themselves, there were no specialists, and there was simply no need to engage in exchange. You could sew your own clothes, throw your own pots, etc. There are however examples of long distance exchange of specialised goods, like stone axe heads,a cross large distances. So one way the conventional explanation is wrong is that it proposes that exchange begins small and grows large, but ts actually the other way around. Trade was actually so insignificant that money proper only appeared circa 500BC, which is very recent. It;s not that it didn't happen, but it wasn't an important factor at the local level. Mediums of exchange emerge from long-distance exchange, not local exchange. I have put some thought into bottlecaps, although this may well be a fool;s errand, as there is no indication that the writers put very much thought into it, or had the necessary expertise to construct a realistic model. The best case I can come up with is that it is similar to the use of sea shells as a medium of exchange. Their utility arises from the fact that they are recovered from the wasteland at a reasonably predictable and consistent rate. The claim that gold and silver would be valuable in the wasteland is just wrong, it won't. The best use for gold would be casting into bullets.

[@LibertyPrime6969]

Just shoot a gunner then boom caps come flying out 😂😅

[@leonspinks3603]

Hello, i want to say banana is the best flavor. Exeption is only pineapple. Please dont understand.😢

[@matthewflores4183]

I like bananas too but pineapples slap. Also pears are goated

[@leonspinks3603]

@@matthewflores4183 Pearl butt with peaches. In the Center.

[@CaptainBardiel]

What about Beer bottle caps?

[@ErectilieusTheDysfunctional]

Please make a discord server, I’d love to join it

[@Jkrocsko]

Radking AND you today?? Both about caps? You must be his most loyal disciple and speak with him in private right?

[@ahorseofcourse7283]

Your vids are generally good, but for the love of god, please don't talk about economics or ancient methods of commerce without doing some research again!

[@Boone69]

You should collqb with RadKing

[@8bitpix]

and some damned fools be hoarding gold all over like that mess will be worth a damn

[@dylanv3208]

Hundreds of thousands? Maybe try billions?