Original Irons are not all Uniform, Surprise Surprise | Engels Coach Shop

On this shepherd's wagon, the original irons all vary and the new wood sides and benches have to be custom fitted to match the irons Building and restoring horse drawn vehicles is about how the wagons were built, not how I think they should have been built. So I try to keep them as they originally were. Thanks for coming along.
Spring for mugs, tee-shirts, sweatshirts and hoodies.
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#wheelwright #blacksmiths #sheep

[@arose62]

Background music; you're the ONLY channel I've found who has background music which isn't intrusive, doesn't suddenly cut in and out, and lets the viewer still hear the workshop sounds! Congratulations, and my everlasting thanks and praise to whoever does the sound on your videos.

[@cotton-Dave]

arose--I 100% agree with your entire comment!

[@milantrcka121]

Emphatically agree. All others need to reduce the background by at least 12 dB (18 better) or eliminate altogether.

[@BrooksMoses]

Marty's Matchbox Makeovers also does really well with the background music, but I agree: Dave's on these videos is excellent. I've commented before that I think these videos are pretty much a masterclass in video editing if you watch closely, and this is yet another example of why.

[@davidbamford4721]

I am amazed at the width of the planks which have been able to get. I don’t think that I have ever seen planks that wide before, and am in my eighties.

[@1crazypj]

After hurricanes in 2022 we had to have some lumber 'made' to repair roof, modern 6x4 is only 5-1/2 x 3-1/2" and didn't fit in with original 1950's construction.. Ended up costing me almost $15,000 as insurance wouldn't restore to original condition. Point is, stuff is available but you need someone who knows where to get it. I didn't so paid what I consider an exorbitant amount as I'm pretty sure carpenter didn't pay the $200 'a stick' he charged me for non standard size. What was kinda upsetting, we had a few old white oak/Florida oak/water oak blow down, but no way to mill it (center is usually rotten anyway) In Florida downed trees are kinda common so just seen as 'yard waste'

[@dianeengel4155]

They're glued.

[@christophercrabtree9616]

Back in the early 80's we found a recipe like you use, where we dissolved steel wool in vinegar. We found that you could brush it on, then cover the area with tinfoil (aluminum foil for the youngsters). Then heat the area with heat gun or hair dryer. This would leave the wood with a silver/gray weathered look. We were making scale model buildings, bridges, and tunnel entrances. If you use a tracer wheel to punch small holes in the foil, and then heated it, it would look like bolt heads as they were exposed to the air and would oxidize darker.

[@gregorycross612]

Neat trick!

[@JF-fx2qv]

Good tip! Thanks!

[@bobdavis5216]

Thanks for sharing. One of the things I may never use but am glad I know it.😊

[@theofarmmanager267]

We have used the ferrous acid finish for many years on the furniture we make. For those thinking about it, you should know that that the results can be variable. We’ve found that the strength of the acid can vary from the length the wool is left in contact (fairly obvious) down to different batches of wool (no idea why). The biggest variant is in the timber. The reactant in the timber is tannin. The timber with the greatest amount of tannin available here in the UK is European oak (quercus robur). Even here, the shading can be variable, largely we think dependant upon the climate in which the trees grew. Not sure if colder means more or less tannin but you have to be very careful if trying match a new piece to an older piece. Some timber have very little tannin and, therefore, you get almost no darkening. This process is different from fuming or smoking - which turns the timber browner - even slightly green. We used to fume oak by placing into a “tent” in which we place a ceramic bowl of ammonia. A very nasty process and one that I’m glad we no longer do. Now. To achieve that result we use a stain.

[@TheUncleRuckus]

Dave, if you want to darken the solution more you could add some Sawdust from Oak, Cedar or Walnut or any wood species high in Tannin to the Rust Vinegar Solution. This will blacken it very quickly. I use a Rust Vinegar solution and Tannic Acid solution, which is just powdered Tannic Acid & Water to Ebonize woods all the time. 👍👍

[@terryhobbs2038]

It's so satisfying to watch a person who really knows what they're doing, doing what they know.

[@midnike8783]

We've been waiting for this historic moment for years! Mr. Engel is finally using a planer instead of his favorite rasp :)

[@frank64409]

Dave, I wanted to let you know that I really admire the way you work. You're a true craftsman and it's a pleasure to watch you in action. These days, people seem to settle for "good enough" but you have a meticulous attention to detail that sets you apart. I've seen you in action as a blacksmith, welder, carpenter, painter, and even a seamstress, and I don't think you get the credit you deserve for your skills and dedication that you deserve!

[@ryhanpeacefeather9278]

Recently did a big batch of iron oxidation solution. Heated the vinegar in a big stainless steel pot. Added a whole bunch of OOOO steel wool. Was wanting to achieve maximum saturation of iron. Used it on white oak flooring. Because of high tannins in the oak and the concentration of the solution I was able to turn the wood black. Then after sanding, the grain stood out very dark. Different outcome than you were looking for but really cool. Keep it up. I learn something every time I watch. Thanks!

[@1pcfred]

You can ammonia fume white oak. But fuming won't turn the wood black just brown. Makes it look like it's hundreds of years old overnight. You know, that rich wood tone? Fuming does that.

[@3870TheDad]

As always, I appreciate your attempt to recreate history. Many people don't realize that the country had a large population of indigenous shepherds, therefore large flocks of sheep, as well as cattle.

[@twistedlimb4053]

Not a Festool domino or track saw in sight. What a relief.

[@CustomBuiltFurn]

Here is another approach to aging the wood. Make a strong tea solution (the source for tannins) and brush/roll that on. Let it dry completely. Then add your vinegar/iron solution to the boards. The solution will react with the tannins you provided with the strong black tea.

[@davidpeters9897]

I'm always impressed by the quality of the lumber.

[@aserta]

This is the part that would give me the most headache. Lots and lots of fiddling with every component to make them all play nice with each other. Of course, Dave's a pro and has the patience of a saint, so he make it look easy.

[@DH-ds5mg]

Having never seen a shepherd's wagon, it is narrower than I would have guessed.

[@1pcfred]

If you want to see what it's going to look like go over to Google and put in sheep herders wagon and then select images. They're kind of like quonset huts on low narrow boxes. So the walls are going to come up off those benches and have a round roof over them.

[@causewaykayak]

It's so hard to match colours with different woods. The wagon is starting to come to life already ... the promise of things to come .

[@Orxenhorf]

It's not really practical for you at this size, but when vinegar and steel wool solution is used in model railroad building, there is a way to control if it comes out grey or dark. They'll coat the entire piece of wood (wall, deck, loading dock, whatever) with the solution, cover it with aluminum foil, then use a pin to poke through where nails should be, and dry is with a hair dryer. The aluminum foil keeps the oxygen away resulting in a weathered grey, and where the heated air from the hair dryer can get in the pinholes it goes dark.

[@billchenault2324]

I hope you have or will have an apprentice somewhere because when you retire there will be so much skill lost. Even if you do have one I cannot imagine someone else that will have the tenacity that you have when it comes to building a vehicle from a pile of splinters and rusted iron. Love all the videos and explanations.

[@dallasarnold8615]

I am not sure which would be the greater loss. The skills or the knowledge. Skills can be developed, but knowing what needs to be done is much more difficult to acquire, I think.

[@jackpledger8118]

Really shame Dave doesn't have a young apprentice with him learning these skills to continue the craftsmanship tradition.

[@1crazypj]

@@jackpledger8118 majority of 'youngsters' just want a quick buck, industrial archeologists included. These video's will probably be the only record in another 100 years. Maybe AI will be good enough to figure things out by then? Like it or not, at least the Japanese still have a thriving historical workforce with a lot of traditional wood working (although I'm sure that just like here, vast majority can't afford to employ highly skilled craftsmen)

[@user-om9jr4fb3y]

Your home made leather vest is obviously a favorite. It's holding up well. Love the sheep wagon rebuild.

[@bluecollar58]

You’ll never have a problem with the carriage bolt head’s spinning in the wood if it ever has to come apart in the future with them locked into the straps. And it has as much or more surface with the washer to wood.

[@1pcfred]

I can still see how it'd upset a carriage maker's sensibilities though. Traditionally carriage bolts do go into wood. I must say I like how they did it on this wagon though. It is clean on the inside. Like you say that bolt should never spin either.

[@ellisc.foleyjr9778]

Man after my own heart, I'm old school (little over 80 so that's old school in many ways ) and I would have done the same if not close to what you did. rather than farm it out to someone who would only do it 1/2 way etc.or not as good. as you pointed out its not a machined lathe turned item. and what you did is more than sufficient to "Get the job done. " and I love the time/cost venue right up my ally. thanks for another lesson in how to get the job done, and not have to sell the house and first born to do it. Thanks for sharing ECF

[@brianmros4844]

Hi Dave, and Diane, I hope your new year is off to a great start. I'm really enjoying this sheep wagon build. You are doing a nice job of keeping it looking old, and original. Your iron repairs are blending nicely to the original. So much to look forward to on all the projects that you have going. Keep up the great work, and thank you for sharing.

[@1mmickk]

The join between old and new timber is a joy to behold.

[@rexmyers991]

Happy New Year, Dave and Diane!

[@michaelgillespie1206]

The work you do is amazing, only a handful of people would even know where to start.

[@chrisbartrum3201]

I agree totally. It's like the man is reeducating the citizen, or indeed all people of the world.

[@1crazypj]

That is something I have to agree with, even if I knew what it should look like originally or when finished I wouldn't know where to start (but, in my defence, I was a motorcycle mechanic not a carpenter and can fix bikes of any age up to around 2012 😁)

[@ralphsullender2474]

Patience looks to be key when making a "new" old wagon.

[@olddawgdreaming5715]

Thanks for allowing us to share the ride with you doing all the work, like the song says. I like it like that. You are keeping it as original as you can so honoring the owners wishes. It's coming along well and will be fantastic too. Stay safe and have fun while you're working. Fred.

[@flywayhome8903]

Once again thanks for the video.

[@richardsurber8226]

Quite a bit of experiment work. and I didn't even notice the music. Thanks for the video, even that looks like work

[@onlyeyeno]

The amount of care and precision You put into making and repairing these seemingly coarse and simple constructions is never ceases to amaze me... Best regards

[@1pcfred]

Anything worth doing is worth doing right. But sometimes Dave does seem to fuss over what I doubt was originally done with as much care or precision.

[@gregorysambo1145]

If you want to turn that rusty red color to black on the wood, mix tannic acid powder and alcohol, and apply it to the red areas.

[@jomercer21113]

The tannin in the tea bags reacts with the water and iron to produce a "black rust" form of iron oxide . Oxalic acid converts those same black water rings found on old furniture (often oak, which is tannin-rich) by a reduction reaction into a water soluble form of iron oxide that rinses away with water.

[@chrisbartrum3201]

And variation was the way it was built, and will look all the more genuine for it. I've no idea where such quality wide boards could be got commercially in Wales, albeit I don't know a mill owner; or we just don't have that scale of tree anymore. And forgot to add thanks for a real classy episode.

[@horatiohornblower868]

Those boards were glued.

[@causewaykayak]

Try to see if Wem (Shropshire) is still in business. They are/were a seriously good mill. We would go to source there from Dolgellau. Was worth the trip.

[@chrisbartrum3201]

Cheers@@causewaykayak, I know Wem quite well, mostly passing through I should say. Tbh I'm out of touch these days and the crux of the matter more about the lack of trees of decent girth to get the width of two boards each side.

[@causewaykayak]

​@@chrisbartrum3201 Hello. Yes I did take your point. Some of these long established mills have Ways & Means. :) You are doubtless correct but if trees of greater size are found these are the yards that might be taking them. Sometime after the Dutch Elm disease mass felling Wem was providing us with inch and a half through sawn boards over two feet wide and had specimens (probably for signs or rustic table tops) well over that. On our last call there a new boiler had been installed and all that old stock (Elm) had sadly gone for fuel. The deforestation in the UK has been a disaster IMO. Engels are so fortunate to have such first rate materials to hand. 👍🏼

[@dianeengel4155]

It's getting harder and harder to find it here, too.

[@BillOwens-vt2wi]

Workmanship is high quality. The project is moving along very well. It will look great when complete. I like the way it will be rustic. I am learning about your way of the aging process thank you.

[@lae52]

I was told that battery acid would make pine look 100 yrs. old. Have you ever tried it? I like to use different acid mixes when staining blackpowder stocks. I like the acid stains because it is a penetrating stain and not just surface coloration. The one downside to using acid based stains is that you don't always have full control of the color. As you can attest to, each piece of wood is different, even if from the same tree.

[@shrumittofarmer439]

Thanks for making my Tuesday and Friday evening again sir!!

[@FarmsteadForge]

Thanks for sharing your tips on the aging solution!

[@OldGeezerstoolbox]

Husks from around the shells of black walnuts make a nice blackening solution. Not sure if they are common in that area due to the cold winters but our climate here in Eastern Washington is only a hair warmer and they were planted commonly in landscapes. Free and traditional for black staining. Love the content, appreciate your time and efforts to keep rolling it out so often. It takes a lot more work to get videos out that most people know.

[@isaactrockman4417]

Anything with tannins. Oak sawdust should work too I believe

[@tomswindler64]

Very nice,coming right along.just carry on and keep doing what your doing.👍👍👍😎😎😎

[@glencrandall7051]

How hard is it to find wide, clear, poplar boards like those. I like the way you are fitting the hardware. Very good looking. Thank you for sharing. Have a great 2024 and stay safe.🙂🙂

[@wileycoyotesr8623]

A most interesting wagon. When finished it will be the first I've ever seen. 👍👍👍

[@archi-dr5te]

Firmer could do with a lick; Man if I lived in US would gladly come and pay good money just to be able to sweep in this shop. Truly inspirational!

[@clarencegreen3071]

I'm too old to be worth much, but I'm going to send my wife. She will bring her own broom. In fact, she's planning to ride it to get there.

[@MrKingdavis13]

If you have enough of the old rotten wood left over after the build it might be a nice touch to make something period correct out of them like a folding chair if there is enough or even just a children's toy to represent the idea that children were taken along sometimes as well and the long slow ride would probably make and child appreciate a toy to pass some time. I don't know how often kids were in a sheep wagon but it seems like it probably happened at least from time to time. Lol

[@gregorycross612]

Good idea. Livestock silhouettes and picture frames for project pictures.

[@johnwillis12454]

I'm not able to do anything now so I live vicariously through you, THANK YOU !

[@MrSammyt53]

I'm following--- I must say again how I appreciate your everlasting attention to detail in recreating this sheep wagon. Great job Sir!

[@LewisSkeeter]

I'm a leatherworker and I use that mixture to dye leather. We call it vinegaroon.

[@creepingjesus5106]

Have to say, I really liked the look of the three coats of the black tea solution. Looked just right to me.

[@markb1764]

give or take an eighth sounds good enough for me

[@emilianopalacin986]

Me gusta mucho el trabajo que realiza, rescatando la historia de América. Un saludo desde España

[@stevenverhaegen8729]

Wait, wait,... The right side is different from the left? It has been in an accident with a mud wagon! 😂

[@gregorycross612]

Oh my what a mess! If the clean up guys mixed up parts...that would be a muddy sheep wagon! 😂

[@TheGlassman63]

0:2:43 mins. Dave working without his glasses on. A very rare `sight` indeed !

[@timeflysintheshop]

I may be wrong of course, but I suspect the wagons were not originally built with as much precision as Dave builds them today!

[@ironcladranchandforge7292]

Yep, you're wrong. (No offense). It does of course depend on who's producing the wagon. Large companies had the best skilled wagon builders. A small town Blacksmith shop, who occasionally made wagons, not as high of quality. He touched on that briefly in one of his mud wagon videos if memory serves me right.

[@tolbaszy8067]

Nice lumber! Those boards were not inexpensive! I think I would have put the vertical element of the bench on the irons before the seat part. This would make the connection at the corner a vertical joint rather than have the side sit on top of the seat where moisture would collect. Great video, as we come to expect!

[@duanelundgren7985]

Yep, I love me some Power Planer!! 😁Good Show, Thanks D & D!!

[@jeffclark2725]

Great video , just rebuilding the waagon the way it was, always enjoyable

[@terryrogers1025]

Thank you for the update young man, appreciate the time you put into the making of these videos.

[@gregorycross612]

.....and ThAnk You to the young lady, Diane, also! 👋🤠

[@clarencegreen3071]

I was left behind when he started fretting over 1/16th inch on an 18 inch board. . . on a sheep wagon!

[@garrettswoodworx1873]

The craftsmanship of Dave Engle requires that level of attention to details.

[@rchristie5401]

This old turd whirler was a complicated piece of machnery in its time! Would have been a God send for the people using pitch forks, off a stone bolt, in the field.

[@toddavis8603]

Poplar sideboards are great.And that vinegar tea stain is just right.

[@petec3307]

very helpful - thank you!!

[@davidbackman4442]

I'm quite partial to putting carriage bolts with the head through the metal whenever reasonably doable. The friction between square section and wood migh be enough to put things together, but it's a long time since I lost count of how many times a carriage bolt would simply spin before even a moderately rusted nut would come off.

[@mikep3043]

Love those single piece poplar sides!

[@ellesmerewildwood4858]

Have you considered coffee instead or as well as, tea ? Model makers often use coffee to age porous materials especially wood. Just a thought. 🙂

[@DonGladwin]

I just looked to see what a sheep wagon looked like, nice.

[@sentimentalbloke7586]

Perhaps the boards are tapered because of aerodynamics at high speed. Lol.

[@kennethsiler9503]

Looking very good

[@zekeabercrombie3583]

Nice to see the level of craftsmanship but I doubt whoever built it originally measured in 16ths of an inch.

[@ironcladranchandforge7292]

Why do you assume that? 1/16 of an inch isn't very precise by today's standards, or the standards back then as well. Precision measuring predates this wagon by a long time. Why do people assume workers in the 1800's were ignorant? Keep in mind, precision machining was already in place in many industries during the 1800's making such things as firearms, steam engines, etc.

[@leondrekus857]

It's nice to watch the work.

[@aake59]

Your attention to detail is impressive. It´s not due to my own lack-of-knowledge - I know a professional when I see him/her. Thank you for your videos, I really enjoy them!

[@stuartlockwood9645]

Hi Dave and Diane ☺ happy new year, the sheep wagon is moving along nicely now, it's amazing how adding a few boards can seem to bring the whole thing to life, and realy nice boards they are too. Thanks for another interesting video, stay safe, best wishe's to all, Stuart and Megan UK.

[@adrianbew9641]

Back in the 90s we used coffee grounds soaked in water

[@alvarolavaggi9557]

Un saludo desde Uruguay. Felicitaciones por su trabajo.

[@jsaurman]

11:06 Does anyone know what year the carriage bolt, as we know it, came into common use?

[@executivesteps]

From the internet.. “In 1818, Micah Rugg, a small-town blacksmith from Marion, Southington Township, Connecticut, developed carriage bolt fasteners.” I’ll bet it was even earlier. Likely ever other blacksmith came up with a similar bolt.

[@amateurshooter6054]

Thanks Dave

[@melkel2010]

Sometimes when things are built assymetrical and you have to rebuild them, you might end up with that ah ha moment where you understand why it was necessessary. Mechanical things, for instance, can be like that. Sometimes you're just left with a fuzzy notion of why it might have been done that way. It's always a journey with sights to see along the way.

[@bertbergers9171]

Dave are you being an alchemist on us aswell! Great idea with the tea bags for extra colour.

[@andygulick6085]

Looking good

[@jimdee5003]

Nice work on the sides and seats

[@AdelinoGambiarras]

The cheap wagon is coming along nicely.

[@errolpoxleitner9586]

Good show thanks for the enfo.

[@user3141592635]

I am impressed by the welding, most Swedes, would just have maked new ones , as copies. I am not Sure wich would be the best, welding up rusting Irion, or reproduce it as a copy and new. We have stones with inscriptions from the 700's such as the Rök-Stone. We only fill it in with old kind of dye an cover it with a tak.

[@tomtruesdale6901]

Happy New Year and the sheep wagon is coming right along. I have used the vinegar and steel wool solution to "age" pressure treated wood when I added on fence boards, so they matched boards already there. Works great.

[@HBTwoodworking]

Dave, I’ve used your vinegar mixture; however, I’ve also used potassium permanganate. Have you tried it? The results vary slightly from the vinegar. - Phil

[@pat36a]

Seems you had 4 braces that measured 18 + " and 4 that were 18 1/8 th + ". But they were split 2 ea per side. Couldn't you take the 4 that were the closest to each other for 1 side and 4 left for the other. This would require mixing them up , but they seem to be made the same style.

[@rodneywroten2994]

looks great

[@frankpuryear3844]

Thanx again .

[@sentimentalbloke7586]

I use vinegar and iron filings and some walnut husks, but my work is generally in hardwood and it might be a little different.

[@nomis3045]

How many things made today will be around in 100 years time to be restored and cherished?

[@horatiohornblower868]

None, because nowadays we don’t build things to last forever. Like it or not, that’s the way modern consumerism works.

[@rogerscottcathey]

Walnut hulls work well

[@IanZainea1990]

3:43 is that one 2 foot wide board? Wow

[@GypsyJvan]

thanks..

[@davidnelson6893]

Very cool Peace out

[@walterlamb4756]

OMG what a craftsman, beautiful work!!

[@davidbohner692]

Fantastic work 🇺🇸👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻✅✅✅✅⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️🫵🏼

[@dallasarnold8615]

Happy New Year ! Off to great start. I have forgotten all the reasoning of the irons. I was expecting the sideboards to be inboard of the irons. So, surprise, surprise for me. I am sure it will be logical to me as you go along.

[@gregorycross612]

Think of them as popots over the wheels on a camper to add living space, elbow room furnitre and appliances!

[@dallasarnold8615]

@@gregorycross612 First did you mean "pop outs" ? Secondly, I am talking about sideboards ( the walls ), not the shelves.

[@omegaman7456]

Would dual wheels be a good idea? I have often imagined what kind of wagons existed, that were specially designed for special jobs. I have seen movies where the pioneers crossed rivers, the horses were up to their necks. Dual wheels could have bridging planks for floatation, and be simply tied on with cords. It also seems that armored wagons, that carried gold and money, would benefit from dual wheels. Were various wheel widths and spoke count available?

[@johnritchie3889]

Are you concerned about those wide boards splitting? If they’re bolted to iron I don’t see any allowance for expansion.

[@butter262]

Miracle worker.

[@joaobarulho9124]

Que maravilha, os nossos objetivos são alcançados através de experiências, mas essa do vinagre e a limalha de ferro mais o chá preto é sensacional, parabéns. O senhor é um genio.

[@michaelbissen1946]

The staining process is very interesting. Have you ever used old motor oil??

[@ronaldfarmer1208]

Good one !