Orisa, Overwatch 2's Hostage Hero

Orisa is one of the most despised heroes in Overwatch 2, a heavily contested title, but one she comfortably sits at the top of the list of candidates for. There are many reasons for this, but I believe the main one to be that at its core, her design holds her hostage, forcing her to be unenjoyable to fight against while also holding her back from being a fun hero to play. Follow me as I attempt to dissect what went wrong and come up with a solution of my own.
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CHAPTERS
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0:00 Beginning Skit
0:29 Introduction
4:16 What Makes Something Feel Bad?
6:33 A Hard Horse To Swallow
12:52 Ramattra
15:56 A Better Horse Is Possible Today!
27:00 Closing Thoughts
#overwatch2 #season10 #videoessay #theorycrafting

[@Miredio]

What are your thoughts on Orisa in OW1/OW2 and what changes would YOU make to her if given the opportunity? I've never tried this making a video like this before, so let me know what you think, I'd like to do more in the near future!

[@andreykasyanov1063]

Loved her in OW, the kit was ticking too many boxes, but I loved the slow incremental push with her shield

[@jjdailey8637]

Wished you made this video a couple days later cause now she has 50% knockback reduction and 50% critical hit reduction

[@michaeljcaboose1152]

I’m being 100% honest when I say this, and it applies to many heroes not just orisa. Remove heroes that cause problems. Seriously, just get rid of them. Imagine how much more fun Overwatch would be if Sombra, Mei, Mercy, Lifeweaver, Roadhog, Orisa, Mauga and probably others, were just not in the game.

[@fullautocobe638]

PROPOSED CHANGES: If reinhardt pins a fortify, the orisa should be pushed back like a boop Also rein should b able to block orisas ult, orisa has every other advantage at least give rein that

[@Miredio]

@@jjdailey8637 The patch lowkey deserves its own video, but I'll hold out the smallest hope that they'll revert it

[@VetriVade]

"Im not having fun so now you wont have fun" is orisa in most situations

[@Pickloes]

Genuinely just bring back OW1 Orisa. The biggest issue was her synergy with other tanks. Which just isn’t an issue with 5v5

[@Miredio]

I do agree that OW1 Orisa was better, but her design would be rough to operate in 5v5 without some drastic changes, which is exactly what Ramattra turned out to be. If she were to be brought back as she was in OW1, she'd need huge buffs to her offenses, and with Fortify still in her kit, she'd just be another flavor of pain to fight.

[@NootNoot76]

🤮🤮🤮🤮

[@sweetillusions5495]

Nah that also wouldn't work too well either since her kit was just way too stationary. Not to mention the gameplay being even more boring because it was just sit behind shield and W+M1

[@Razytone]

​@@Mirediowdym about ramattra

[@batatanna]

No. The issue was fortify and immo support abilities. It still is.

[@QuarzleTheMinecrafter]

you did kinda cook tbh

[@Miredio]

Ty!

[@zukeirl]

Hard agree with what you said about Ram I’m a Doom main and barely even play Ram but I still think he is the best designed character I’ve ever seen Not just his kit, which is the perfect balance of offence, defense, poke and brawl. But just his character. His voice is incredible, his voice lines are a great mix of cynical and evil omnic but with a touch of softness or curiosity at times (im looking at you “if I find any twigs”) Just perfection I actually get giddy even thinking about the dude, robot, whatever

[@Miredio]

Ram is great! I never even thought about his similarities to OW1 Orisa prior to making this, they're so far apart in how they play that it's easy to miss how they're near identical in their kits, with the differences making Ram SO much more fun (even though I've only played him a tiny bit)

[@jayjaygolden5123]

holy shit i just thought fortify gave her a temp shield and cc immunity it gives all that??? thats fucking insane. idm it giving cc immunity, but since thats a HUGE boon on such a short cd she should get very little else out of it

[@Miredio]

It gives her all that, for just pressing one button no less! I really hope they do something about it sooner than later

[@LongandWidePodcast]

Shield, CC immunity, immune to headshots, 50% damage reduction, and lower overheating rate on her gun

[@beaniebean4885]

I actually really like playing Orisa it just sucks to ALWAYS be playing against her

[@eclypse5081]

OW2 ruined tanks, aoe heal became a huge problem, and tanks + shields were mostly fine, but instead of regulating heal and maybe adapting some tank utility, they removed one tank, which overly inflated healing available per teammate, made some tanks invincible, and made dps the last remaining class to be overall fun to play. Sad.

[@arsonne]

Fantastic video. I don't know how they have fans this devoted and intelligent and act like the issues they're having are just too difficult, and/or tackle them so lazily. It's shameful.

[@warrior1590]

I personally believe that the javalin spin should take AWAY heat and only be used when there is heat active. When both use the same resource, it means there is long periods of time of just waiting to do something, which doesn’t do much for a tank role.

[@soupysoupramenpick6412]

This is a great video man, as an OW1 Orisa main I am glad to see more people want to discuss Orisa's actual state rather than just blame her for the game balance. I do agree that her kits feels like a waste due to her "hero fantasy" but will say that I think it is fully tied to the 5v5 format. Fortify is unfortunately the soul of her kit as an OW2 tank since most characters have become debuffers and the sole tank needs a way to deal with that. All OW2 tanks have an immortality or immunity button to do that. Mauga, Roadhog, Ball, Sigma, even Rem has his block. You have a great point that Rem works because he is punishable and well designed for a single playstyle which is why he is beautiful. Still, having one tank already requires them to be stronger than the rest because they don't have a role-mate to share responsibility with. When the tank needs to be a better hero from the start, it means the tank will always be ultimately a stronger hero in the end. I really liked your rework idea since it does propose good value for the character, but I would change spin for her shield coming back with a higher cooldown since it requires better map awareness, allows both defensive and offensive play, and personally I think fits her character better. Again, awesome video and I hope you get more subs for a good channel!!

[@arakemi1080]

seeing how OW2 defaulted to having mostly debuffers on each team, i can say that orisa is a bit more balanced now. sleep, flashbang, fire, other abilities that make you die faster, most teams these days pick characters that can debuff and win the fight easier, not various characters to enjoy the game. OW2 players in general don't play the game to enjoy it, they play it because they want to prove their "tool" is bigger, otherwise they wouldn't play OW2 all day, they would play diverse games.

[@jeremiahwashington3107]

What if Orisa had a move that allowed her teammates to ride her into battle at high speed? Why? She’s a horse. That is all.

[@alexfreed2519]

This, but also bring back 6v6 dear god

[@PSIChris]

Should be 10v10

[@shyrain67]

i fully disagree. having 2 tanks was so unfun to play against and it allowed for insane team comps (like GOATS) its the reason me and most other dedicated ow1 players quit the game before ow2 came out. i think the game would immediately die if they added back a second tank. i for one would stop playing immediately

[@Nanachiiky]

@@shyrain67 That was a balance issue that couldve been easily fixed with yknow...balance patches.... now tanks cant have fun because they exist to die or exist to sweep entire games with NO inbetween due to them being the only ones that get cooldowns thrown at them 95% of the time, stop straight up thinking that 2 tanks was the problem for GOATS (IT WAS FUCKING BRIG) or Double Shield meta (It was tanks but once again, if they did ANY balance patches instead of making OW1 die so they can make a shittier game with a greedier shop)

[@PSIChris]

The solution is 2tanks,2healers,6dps per team.

[@kory.j6561]

@@shyrain67 ye… like those problems couldn’t have been reworked. Just ignore the fact that they have all power to change whatever they want. Don’t excuse them for being lazy

[@Magnum-qq5bz]

Them giving her dreads and a spear was foul

[@vividdaydream1516]

The devs pointing to nade as the solution to the problem of "too much healing" is... ugh. Biotic grenade is very much a "create a disease so you can sell the cure" type situation: Before Ana was added to the game, there _was no need_ for any sort of anti-heal because KILL DENIAL IN GENERAL was firmly gated behind support ults. Burst healing as a basic (non-ult) ability DID NOT EXIST in the game back then. But then Ana happened, and suddenly you had fights lasting forever because she was basically using a defensive ult every ten seconds.... and the old devs were so dead-set against changing the way Ana heals (aka spamming burst heals) that they re-balanced _the entire game's_ combat pacing just to accommodate it. _That's_ why every support hero after Ana is overloaded with obnoxiously stackable AoE/burst healing/kill denial on cooldown, and why tank gameplay now requires a healer to be wedged up the tank's butt at all times just to function.

[@bb-mf6qh]

I will never get over how the reason they changed her was because of "too many shields" and then they added Ramattra who has a f-ing shield.

[@silvergamer7250]

Except he is ballenced

[@GummyDinosaursify]

They also "removed CC" only to have every single character released after launch have CC with Venture's kit being almost exclusively CC. They also managed to buff the little CC they didn't remove. I'd argue CC is worse now then it was in OW1.

[@lostwolf9873]

First off, good job on the video! It’s well-organized and easy to follow. But, there’s one thing that could be better. Sometimes, the text is hard to read because there’s so much going on in the background. Maybe adding a semi-transparent layer behind the text could help make it clearer Secondly your Orisa 3.0 over corrects and removes ALL of her Offensive aswell as her Defensive capabilities but lets go though all of new abilites. Her new Primary is in consistent with everything as all Projectile weapons like that dont have fall off range even Ramattra staff which is almost hitscan and with your other abilites this doesnt make sense to change as she now is also weaker at brawling. Her New Javelin spin Punishes her for using it as it especially considering its her ONLY defensive ability 1. Generates heat when not blocking anything the good aspect as its a wrong usage of the ability 2. Generates MORE heat when playing aggressive so its a Punishment for actually using the speed even though aggressive play should be rewarded instead. 3. Slows you when moving backwards so even passive play is punished which is ok if aggressive play isnt also punished 4. Generates extreme amounts of heats when blocking damage so punishing you for actively using the ability the way it was intended. And the punishment is taking away nearly all of your own agency by removing your main offensive and defensive abilites. New Spear throw is basically a worse version of Rein´s Fire Strike as it smaller, only has one charge, doesnt travel though barriers but you gain a tiny knock back. So to make it actually worth using it needs to deal absurd damage like 180 - 200 compared to reins 120. New Halt good ability i like it but it should rather be a replacement for spear. Her new supercharged Isnt an Ultimate at all as it has no Imitate impact i will compare it to primal rage. Primal Rage: 1. Instantly fully heals you and gives you 500 hp 2. Reduces jump cd by 60% 3. Gives you new primary which knocks back people and deals more damage 4. Gives you increase movement speed: Supercharged: 1. Turns your 275 HP into armor but DOESNT HEAL 2. Gives Primary more damage close range but doesnt give a way to stay close range 3. Reduces Heat gen of spin which can still remove both Spin and Primary when overheating 4. Crit point moves to drum which allows for easier headshots and canceling of the ultimate though damage 5. Reduced CC As you can see Supercharged is worse than Primal Rage in every Regard and doesnt work as an ultimate at all with even Terra surge being better. You tried to focus so hard on removing the unhealthy aspects that you removes all fun out of orisa aswell and personally i dont even thing orisa needs that many changes to be healthy. Personally i would do it like this Primary: Slower projectile speed and Firerate but larger projectiles and more damage. This reduces her ranged preassure but allows good orisa´ss to still hit shots consistently similar to Pharah. Javelin Spin: Now has a heat meter Activating it cost X heat and it generates y heat per second Moving forward gives a movement speed boost Moving backwards gives a reduction im movement speed Maybe even allow her to have higher jump if looking upwards The heat meter is a good idea but instead of punishing her for everything make reward good usage. The movement speed rewards agressive play while the slow reduces its passive strenght and the activation cost makes spamming non viable. Javeling Throw Removes stun and reduces damage on hit Adds stun on wall hit and increase damage of it hitting it reduces heat maybe increase knockback Or Make it chargeable like doom punch increasing damage, knockback and stun on wall duration and maybe even a AOE effect on full charge hitting it reduces heat Both of these changes give the player receiving it more agency as the first one allows one to not be stunned by smart positioning and the second one gives a warning allowing players to react against it as the problem wasn't the stun but how easy and fast it was to use it or just make it halt Fortify: Uses the same resource as Spin Activating it cost X heat and it generates y heat per second Now also increases your projectile speed Speed reduction removes Headshot point moved to bongo instead of removing it. Removing Fortify would kill orisa and theres nothing else you can add instead give it offensive usage by increasing projectile speed making it a choice of more offensive pressure instead of defensive pressure and moving headshot to bongo allows for headshots in it without making it to easy to hit. Terra Surge: Now starts at heat level and removes heat on slam In general this allows for more options against orisa without removing orisa as many of the option you said are toxic are the core identity of overwatch and removing fortity is exactly the same as removing immortality field, Suzu, anti nade, sleep dart and Lifegrip Aswell as removing Javelin Throw means you need to remove rocket punch, Rein Charge, Mauga Charge, Sig Rock and Roadhog hook. And if you remove all of them you remove overwatch from overwatch.

[@miwky406]

I love your idea for a rework, and I would love to these ideas make it to the game. I would suggest a few ideas on overheat though: I'd change it so that her overheat mechanic is dictated by her javelin spin like you suggested, BUT, that her primary fire only stalls overheat's cooldown, instead of building overheat. Then, make it so that the strength of all of Orisa's other abilities (and primary fire) are increased proportional to how high Orisa's current overheat is. Making overheat both a punishment to fuck up, but also a reward for successfully balancing.

[@deadsquad8059]

while I dont play overwatch (paladins mostly) I do agree with you that defensive characters should not be super prevalent as it just increases the time to kill way too much, for us its yagorath, she has 2 lives for her ult, one of her abilities heals (with a card) and protects, and her secondary fire (with a card) heals, which makes her unkillable, which is not fun as the reasons you stated in the vid, cc immunity, which is cool cause she is planted in place, damage reduction, a small head hitbox, so less crits, and her ability makes it impossible to crit, basically paladins form of orisa, all the ways you fixed orisa are really good though, so good work! (also 64 views??? on a vid this high quality???)

[@Miredio]

I didn't want to make a whole section for it, but defensive designs in general are tricky in PvP games, since they inherently are about denying your enemy the ability to achieve the game's goal, beating you, not through skill necessarily, but through numbers, which makes fights into slogs. I think the best philosophy around defense that I've seen from any game developer was in Clash Royale, where structures (which are immobile in a game where everything moves, making them defensive in nature) have a place in the meta ONLY as a means to aid your offenses, and the developers go out of their way to ensure the meta stays leaning towards offense with only a sprinkle of defense (since you still need to NOT let the other player defeat you, obviously)

[@mugisucks906]

if you want a super low ttk why not play literally any shooter subgenre? why do you want to play a game based around hero kits synergy and team fights but want every team fight to last 5 seconds cause your support or dps instantly died?

[@Miredio]

​@@mugisucks906 The main issue is less on the ttk as a whole and more on the ttk disparity between a tank and the rest of the roles, yes obviously a tank should take longer to kill, that's the point, but there's a difference between being harder to kill and being comparatively immortal to the other 4 members of your team

[@deadsquad8059]

@@mugisucks906 yes, I agree that team fights should not last 5 seconds, even if you are down a support, what I am saying is that if you have a tank, solo, they should not be impervious to multiple dps trying to kill them, unless you are a god at the game, with orisa (from what I have seen) they can survive for a long time without their team with their super defensive build, and yagorath is literally meta'ed to be in the back of the enemy without a support because 1: they get more healing if they are close (damage reduction and burst heal) 2: they get more healing if they are far (secondary fire healing), plus, if you have a character like lillith who can heal from afar, its even more busted

[@icepl831]

ill be honest i hate her javelin. i had way more fun with ow 1 orisa and her old abilities would fit way better into ow2s 5v5 format

[@Accuaro]

Please just bring us back to 6v6, so sick of these mega-tanks that either 1v5 an entire team or 5v1 to actually kill a tank. Like on average these tanks die like 2-4 times a match they're almost immortal.

[@nepnep1149]

Pretty much forced to play the 3 same tanks every game if you don’t wanna get stomped

[@NatsuDragn33I]

Oooh, I like your changes for the most part. I WOULD make it so that one of her abilities vents some heat OR gets stronger the more heat you have.

[@DMT4Dinner]

Yes halt was fun on either team

[@cheshirecat2888]

What if her “impervious” nature during fortify extended to healing received as well so healing is reduced since she technically is blocking out all external damage and what not trying to affect her so she receives a penalty for being “immune to everything”

[@mattevans4377]

My personal gripe, is CC immunity while dishing out an insane amout of CC. Characters should have one or the other, not both.

[@ravins4786]

the only time i have fun when when orisa is on the field is when i hear the death sound

[@pedrogianellimagalhaes2070]

Great video and interesting rework take! I would like to see your take on a Reaper rework, cuz he also desperately needs one, not for the same reasons as Orisa of course

[@edentitycrisis]

Think you did a great job balancing her out and keeping her abilities unique and interesting. They’re totally different kits, but 3.0 kind of reminds me of Illari (strict resource management, damage falloff, etc) who is a BLAST to play even when the meta doesn’t favor her. Great video!

[@Miredio]

Thank you!

[@Femboy_Grey]

I don’t like playing Orisa but I feel forced to in some matches, if I dare play anyone else I just deal with the enemy team hard countering me every match, it’s just not fun ;-; I take all the cool-downs, all the CC, all the agro, it’s so awful I’d rather just play any other character

[@hamstergamingyt9251]

Nice video and interresting takes! if you want to, i could make that version of orisa in a custom game for you to test the changes

[@LynxLynxX_lol]

I just have a question. you talked about how spear is awfull with its stopping power and basicly locking people in place, but you want halt back. It doesnt do damage nor stops abilities/ultimates, but it still locks players movement and it wasnt really fun to play against it in OW1. Im just curious. The javelin spin is very interesting concept and i think it could be implemented. The ultimate is kinda arguable. I get the direction you are aiming for. I dont know what to say against it, i just have a bad feeling it wouldnt fit into the game. Good video overall tho, keep it up

[@Miredio]

Halt has its drawbacks too, but out of all of Orisa's abilities it is by far the most harmless AND offers teamplay options, which is a great way to boost player desire to play her, even the developers have talked about wanting to bring it back, so clearly there's something to be gained from it, as well as from kicking fortify out of her kit in exchange for it. The javelin spin is tricky, but I do think it could work, if I knew how to workshop it I'd love to have made a demo for it. The ultimate is strange but I mainly just wanted to make something that: 1) Wasn't Supercharger, because more damage amp in the game would be insane 2) Wasn't Terra Surge, because it kind of blows, mechanically 3) Played into the rest of the kit I had already made I had some ideas for a reworked fortify, but since I ended up giving it the boot entirely, I recycled them into the ult.

[@Account-fk8cx]

​@@Miredio halt was removed for a reason. Stopping movment for dive characters was way to easy of a kill. Mini Zarya ult was dogshit to go aganst. Watch any old ow tournament and nobody playing dive into orisa it's eater mirror or brawl became if you ran dive you would get halted and headshoted back to spawn.

[@Miredio]

@@Account-fk8cx The design I came up with is meant to lean more on her brawly side, being a poke tank without being frustrating is really difficult, which is there's only 3 in the game, one is middle ranged (Sigma), one is actually a brawl tank (Ramattra), and the last one is the subject of this video. Halt isn't without its flaws, but without Fortify Orisa is MUCH more vulnerable in general, so it shouldn't be as problematic.

[@Ardyrezv]

Great video

[@artimist0315]

Personally I don't think Fortify's problem is with the immunity, and the fact that you use the prerequisite of anti-nade being bad, an ability that was generally considered well designed for most of the game lifespan doesn't really help your argumentation. I think fortify is a fundamentally boring ability, with a visual effect that help in no way to understand its effect, and that effect is itself so poorly established it changes every balance patch. Orisa turning gold not only makes absolutely zero sense, but it doesn't communicate at all which of her stats are modified. It could mean dealing more damage, Halving her cool-down shortened, or making her enchantement cheaper for that matter, you honestly couldn't tell without looking it up online. It sort of reminds me of a less fun commanding shout, as an ability that completely breaks the logic of the game is completely unrelated to the hero's concept and lore and really solely there to fill a hole in a kit. What makes it even worse is that it isn't needed on Orisa's kit and takes the place of an ability that would actually help define Orisa's kit. Seriously you could remove fortify and decrease Javelin spin cool-down by one or two second and I can guarantee Orisa wouldn't change in viability or gameplay. Imo, they should remove fortify and bring back Halt, or an ability that achieves the same function as halt, aka help Orisa force interactions and confirm kills. Currently Orisa is completely at the mercy of the oponent's counterplay, she can do very little in playing around her oponent's strategy and adapting. She's either absolutely unbeatable or helpless. An ability like halt makes her actually able to affect the oponent's gameplan and needs proactive use, allowing for creativity and dynamic gameplay. It can stop a diving oponent's in his track, prevent a fleeing player from getting away, force someone off highground or help a teammate or herself confirm an ability. It should have been the staple of her kit, not a filler ability like fortify.

[@levizl2695]

I believe I have a fix for orisa make her spin into a doomfist kind of block where she charges up her spear by taking damage but isn’t able to block damage fully

[@mrdude5733]

the falloff damage is unfair because she's bo the only projectile with it but hitbox size falloff with be better but going back to the changes i disagree for orisa denies the enemy denial and denies them back it's a 5v5 problem

[@Miredio]

I don't necessarily disagree, but I still think you can achieve a similar end in a less frustrating way, even if not the one I offered.

[@Chickensaus]

Lets be real. Orisa and Mauga are the only tanks who suck to play as and suck to play against. Almost everyone agrees on this. Let's just hope that Orisa stays in a bad state forever. Overall, Ramattra is cooler and has a superior character design compared to Orisa. If you ask me, just remove Orisa and Mauga from the game. You go Mauga or Orisa to counter your way to a win, but at the end of the day, you don't want to be an Orisa or Mauga main. People just play them to get a free win. Also i wan't to correct that Ramattra only blocks 75% and not 80%

[@Miredio]

I could've sworn it was 80... I might've rounded it up subconsciously, I'll double check next time, thx!

[@johnwickfromfortnite9506]

For me my main issue with orisa is that she is supposed to be a robot that protects people, and her overwatch 1 kit reflects that. A shield to defend your backline, a pull to get people off from your team and an ult that gives a damage amp to your team. She feels like an actual protector. In overwatch 2 she woke up and chose violence and nothing about her kit feels like she is protecting her team, but rather she is protecting herself. Fortify only affects her, javelin throw is used more offensively than anything and javelin spin can be seen as protecting her team but its main used is to ignore projectiles to rush the enemy squishies. Nothing about this feels like a protector and feels more selfish than anything while also being overtuned

[@echoladair]

Im gonna be real, i dont play a whole lot of overwatch anymore but is horse got reworked into something like this i would come back to the game

[@nicename29]

rly loved the video and watched it all the way through!

[@Miredio]

Thank you!

[@Tedstryker-pq9kh]

I really like your idea for javelin spin because it adds more skill expression, which I feel like orisa needs. Also, what if orisa had a ability that consumes her heat and turns it into health or damage. Also also, what it javlin only stuned when it hits someone into a wall, so players have to position themselves correctly to get it.

[@masterchiefyoumind]

I wonder if the next hero or tank is going to counter our Arisa

[@xosui5673]

I was thinking you were describing ramatra for a second. Little did I know I was right

[@josepheytle8483]

Its difficult cause orisa with their lore has to be a direct contact for doom fist.

[@ramzus8359]

Mid way through watching through this, Chapter 3 was a funny plot twist ngl

[@IAmThatGuy..]

5:39 "Womp Womp"

[@somepersn2243]

I feel like making her javelin reduce damage not negate it and make her fortify only give her a speed boost

[@FlyFox10O1]

The frustrating thing about Orisa is that she has 3 separate "no thank you" buttons. Fortify, javelin spin, and the javelin throw itself, all shut down other players abilities to make plays on her, literally thats what makes it so bad. I think your changes are very good but it unfortunately also guts her as a character a bit much. Personally i would swap Javelin Spin for Halt, that was she still has a player displacement ability but its not one that damages or absorbs ultimates. Javelin Throw is weirdly fine as is, at most i would give it gravity or make it disappear after a certain range. Her primary fire definitely needs damage fall-off, and i also agree that Fortify as an ability is way too strong. It might be a bit of a wild reach but I would try to turn Fortify into a passive (call it 'Fortified' if you want), which would activate when Orisa is bellow a certain health thresh-hold (say, 35% health remaining, for example), and gives her most of the effects that fortify already has for like 5 seconds maybe. So it still is a great tool for Orisa but it involves her taking more risks by requiring her to be at low health, kind of a last resort ability. And now this Orisa needs to be at mid range to be effective, so with the ability slot that got freed up moving Fortify to a passive, give her a horse stop that knocks enemies back a little bit as an "get off me" button

[@stixxuwu]

Am I the only one who has fun playing as her rn? Like fr orisa is my main and it feels still quite good to play, also hitting the spear feels so satisfying

[@nathancasey7712]

How is javelin spin offensively useless? You can pin people against the wall and kill very easily with it

[@lynsmanz384]

I heard someone suggest adding a brawler class that's between dps and tank and changing some tanks and dps to the role and I honestly think that would be a great idea. Make the tanks that are added less tanky and adjust abilities and make the dps tankier and adjust their stuff.

[@iSuckAtGamesGG]

0:34 mans was fighting the demons with that spear

[@MutatedAmerican]

See, how I see Orisa is that she is: an Anchor tank, a Two-Faced hero (protector of the team/punisher of criminals) and CREATED to prevent another Doomfist in Numbami. As such, while I can totally see many of your choices as great choices, I believe that her kit rework I have may look a bit different than what the video presented. For examples: -Fusion Driver: Add damage falloff ranges so she may fit into the more close quarter tank role practically all roles are under. Increase her overheat mechanic, and rather than overheat, have it where she will continuously fire but now at a slower rate. After all, a protector ideally will stay in the fight, no matter how dire it may be. -Energy Javelin: While I can see the issues with this ability, I firmly believe that tanks should really be the only characters to have CC abilities so long as its not oppressive. That being said, to help make her CC less like Roadhog and more like Sigma/Rein, I propose that her javelin works as the opposite of Doomfist. After all, Empower Punch thrives when blocking oncoming damage, so why have it where her Javelin thrives when suppressing fire- hence is why I stated the larger overheat cooldown so she doesn''t thrive for this as much. For context, when firing her primary, she will generate heat that will negatively effect her in a long fight. So, as a punisher, she will use her ability to summon a javelin, and depending how much heat she generates, it will either be a quick summons but as a soft CC javelin, or a long summons but as a hard CC javelin, with potential fire effects. Not only does this ideally harm criminals more than your typical purse snatcher, but it will specifically harm Doomfist as he wants to be in a fight while she wants to end it. Keep in mind, the cooldown will remain the same -Javelin Spin: While not a bad replacement over the shield, I believe that the shield was not a bad ability and was only due to the double bubble meta. As such, if 6v6 was to come back, then the spin is needed, but for 5v5, it's a toss up. If they were to keep it, remove the javelin movement speed as it makes no sense as an Anchor tank to have. However, for me, I'd say bring back the shield with a few changes. After all, what made her shield annoying was that she can easily summon multiple barriers in a fight without any drawback as it was reliant on a cooldown and not a resource gauge. So, to combat this, I believe that her barrier, or as I would rename it as Beetle Barricade, have the same attribute to that of an Illari pylon. Think of it this way, she deployed her barrier and is now on a cooldown. After her cooldown is done, regardless of the barrier being destroyed or not, she can summon another. However, much like a Zarya bubble, once the next barrier is destroyed while on cooldown, she will now be exposed and her cooldown reset with a longer cooldown! That way she still works as an Anchor tank and protector at the same time, but not in an oppressive way. -Fortify: Honestly, this is more of a crutch ability as she lost her shield and would have been more like Roadhog and Mauga, completely naked without any means of sustaining herself. But now that shield is back, it's time to remove Fortify. *But Fortify is part of her identity! Without it, she is nothing!* I see your point, however due to its unhealthy nature, it needs to be done. That being said, it won't be completely remove as... -Ultimate: Supercharger/Fortification: Much like previous ultimate, she deploys her supercharger and automatically tethers all those around after a period of time. But instead of damage boost, EVERYONE now benefits with a Fortify, including the bongos themselves to survive longer (but a weaker version of it) And when the enemy enters the circle, they become slowed so that they may be punished. This all works out for her identity as a protector, punisher, and anchor. Of course, as a deployable, it can be destroyed and as such it can sometimes be destroyed prematurely. Thoughts?

[@sadthecat4454]

I like your orisa rework but having the ultimate be fortify and a nano boost is not really an impactful ultimate for a tank where the identity is to make plays, take space or cause displacement. I would opt for something like a moving symettra wall that can push back enemies that's the size of her old shield or size of rein shield that she can control the speed of.

[@gen2mediainc.577]

overwatch is hybrid MOBA and hero shooter. Hero shooters need the whole cast to be equal, and MOBAs need the different classes to balance out in a comp. That means the only way overwatch structurally functions is when every role has an equal number of equally strong heroes. 6v6 is ideal since 9v9 or 3v3 would require the roles to be gutted to reduce op synergy making each role immortal, or just removing a lot of the fun and chaos of synergies in general.

[@leonruthe1793]

Rather play against her over doom and ball.

[@tyisamess]

I mean all you have to do is play dive or just focus the rest of her team and ignore orisa and she is super easy to counter.

[@wever4873]

1st one is bastion btw

[@CyberGhostArt]

The core problem with orisa is the overwhelming amount of stuns and CCs in the game, as well as the increasingly bigger numbers. She is not the cause, but a symptom of the problem, as she is pretty much the only tank that can witstand those

[@Miredio]

Overwatch is a massive compilation of overlapping issues, I physically can't cover all of them in one video so I didn't try to, fixing Orisa in a vacuum doesn't fix the wider issues, but it makes her stop being one herself at least.

[@The1stGiant]

I’m sorry to tell you this, but the truth is we have all heard the developers say that they hate the idea of counter, picking even though that doesn’t really make sense for an ability shooter. So the truth is I think the reality is that they continue to buff Orissa and even nurse don’t seem to actually make a difference because she’s the only character that they’ve been able to make who doesn’t have any hard counters. at any time, a hard counter does come up. It’s easy enough to change. Somethings slightly to nullify it. For example, the for the longest time good players would say play with them and headshot her and even though it wasn’t a perfect counter, it was OK. so the devs decided give her a weapon. No damage drop off now she can fortify and deal with the sniper. if you were ever hesitant to believe what I was saying, to be true look at how quickly they changed fortify, so that it prevented forced critical damage, as soon as Mauga came out, as the only character capable of acting is a true counter to Orissa. they NERFED in Mauga to a point where he can’t even be played the way that his ability set suggests he should be played because people complained. He only had one heart counter, which, in actual fact wasn’t true as people actually played against him longer. They learned other ways to deal with it, but nobody will admit that because they just wanted him to be no longer viable. but any time Orissa get to counter it’s so much easier when it comes to trying to keep up that mentality of eliminating counter play from the game to just give a Rissa a buff that illuminates that counter.

[@michaeljcaboose1152]

Yeah this is a HUGE issue with modern game developers. They vehemently refuse to accept they made a mistake. They’ll try to tip toe around the issue or try patch after patch after patch to “balance” the issue, even when the issue is inherently unbalanceable. Older game developers were smart enough and more importantly humble enough to admit they fucked up and remove the issue. Seriously modern game developers need to know that removing an issue is a possibility that can be explored. Is Mauga the worst designed hero to ever exist in an FPS hero shooter? Yes, he should have just been removed from the game, he doesn’t work and will never be balanced, it’s fundamentally impossible.

[@Miredio]

Yeah it's rough, but when it comes to problematic hero designs, there's always something in there worth salvaging, so reworking them to keep what works and get rid of what doesn't is the better solution over throwing the whole character away. Mauga was originally designed as a glass cannon character (presumably all the way in OW1 when he could've gotten away with it) and so when he finally released and he HAD to be able to tank the world and then some, we ended up with a cannon, period. Of all heroes, Mauga is definitely one of the most screwed over by being forced into role lock, he could've probably worked as a bulky DPS without self regen outside of Cardiac Overdrive

[@masterchiefyoumind]

Blizzard has final say at the end of the day

[@Wezinthewest]

Yesterday I was playing D.V.A against an Orisa and couldn't do anything to her, plus she had healers and I had almost none. I got called trash tank because I wasn't able to kill her. I really just wished my teammate stopped yapping calling us trash, whilst he kept dying.

[@sxeychick9622]

So you’re talking about a hero that is a victim of HAVING to fit the core of their kit that they are built around, and since that core is necessary for that hero to maintain their identity and it’s also a flawed core, they are always going to be either too strong or too weak… And you think Orisa fits that definition better than Bastion? 🤦‍♂️ Bastion = must have turret. And he has always either been “turret mode too weak, Bastion bad” or “turret mode too strong, Bastion too good”.

[@Miredio]

Bastion's definitely on my list of heroes to talk about down the line, he has similar issues but by NOT being a tank he's not quite as volatile in the meta. He also has no invulnerabilities whatsoever, so inherently he's much less unhealthy, but still, definitely getting a video at some point.

[@Chewi_j]

ok, im leaving the video just by watching the first 15 seconds of gameplay oh lord

[@jameslopez9661]

It's still widow for me. Gotta play so safe for 1 hero and as tank you might have to go maug to keep her sightlines down by perma burning

[@mdspms2005]

Blingrat agrees, the horse must become weaker so it is easier for Blingrat to elimimate her.

[@KingKuda420]

5:06 wait what??? 🤨🛑

[@immortalls9689]

Orisa wasn’t that much better then the others and didn’t need nor deserve the disrespect , they should revert the changes at this point because the dps passive changes plus the armor changes would have settled her down Also of course fusion driver shouldn’t have fall off, it’s a projectile weapon and most have little to none, plus as it is a GUN she should be effective at range..that is a terrible take..yeah no this is a horrible take

[@Miredio]

It is a projectile based weapon, which is why I thought of making her hitscan to justify the fall-off, but I wasn't sure of it so I dropped it. The main thing was forcing her to get closer since being a wall character that can fight from a distance only increases how annoying she can be to fight. I was thinking a similar range to Cassidy, so close-mid.

[@immortalls9689]

@@Miredio ok so let’s say we did that, what purpose does it serve? Forces her to fight closer, ok now she’s in direct confrontation with her biggest counter, Zaria, Orisa is all about defensive CD management which is why she’s unplayable rn as she has massive gaps in her rotation, with hit scan she can poke easier, but now her effective range is forcing her to play up close for effective damage as with no dps passive nor dps damage her being hit scan is pointless for securing kills as we have seen before her drop off was removed, plus her driver overheat would hard cap her output more than a standard reload because you have to feather it and it heats up faster than most reload characters run out of ammo, she’s then also competing with characters like hog and mauga who can soak up damage as well as she can but have more dps, she only got away with it recently because fortify has a lot of dr and the dps passive was weaker, now she has less fortify and moves slower during and a terrible rotation of abilities, plus now body shots are stronger vs tanks on many characters due to the armor changes which affects her a lot more than most because one of her biggest strengths is narrowing her headshot window but now body shots are more effective which affects fortify too, I could go over the whole list on my issues with this take tbh

[@Miredio]

​@@immortalls9689 Well it's not about making current Orisa into a hitscan, but the 3.0 hypothetical I made, which is NOT meant to poke at a safe range forever and instead meant to get closer, but I do think a lot of the concerns are valid. Hog and Mauga both are examples of poor design as well, so idrc about comparing to them, but I do agree that she'd be outcontested. Heat generation would have to be adjusted to account for Javelin Spin using it up as well, actually considering if maybe only Javelin Spin should be in the heat system and Fusion Driver should go back to ammo. Having her have to get close to Zarya is definitely rough, but ironically, being hitscan would help her matchup since Zarya heavily benefits from projectile based enemies. D.Va already has a similar issue and I'm not sure directly targetting it is a good idea, since it'd flip the matchup heavily in Orisa's favor if she could just block beams as well. I'll definitely keep these in mind if and when I make a revision to this design, thanks for the feedback!

[@immortalls9689]

@@Miredio another thing however , fortify, yes it has a lot of benafits but do remember they tried removing the headshot immunity to disastrous effect, besides, it’s as much part of her as dvas mech is to her character, it has to cover a lot because by itself it’s not strong enough even as it was which is why javelin spin exists to narrow the window of vulnerability while it’s on cd.. orisa ahead size alone makes fortify a must have ability as it stands. I think in the end I fundamentally disagree with the take that it’s “bad design” because if that is the case Zaria is just as hotly of it as Orisa if not more because her bubbles do all fortify does and then some with 2 charges and a lower cooldown plus dps level damage output..imo..Orisa is hated because streamers hate her, that and her hand in the double shield meta back in the day, look at brig for evidence of that theory

[@jamesadams410]

Overpowered / underpowered , sure whatever, but not fun to play? There is nothing more satisfying than getting an environmental by spearing a player off the map

[@Miredio]

Valid, knockback is a tricky one because it's fun to knockback others but it's NOT fun to get knocked back, same for stuns, which is why I still gave her Halt, since it's a more palatable flavor of knockback without a stun, so you can still get some fug out of it without having to frustrate the enemy as much.

[@jamesadams410]

@@Miredio of course it’s not fun to get knocked back, but it’s on the player to keep good positioning to avoid that. Ive made whole teams rage quit on Liajang tower by blowing up the side doors with wrecking ball as they’re trying to get on point. It ain’t my fault no one switched to junkrat and layed a trap, or they could have tried a different door lol. It eventually comes down to strategy and player skill

[@SeveruSniper]

Just nerf fortify so that they have to think before diving mindlessly.

[@rhiisnow]

this problems solution is as simple as deleting orisa

[@OverwatchSuffering]

Why tf did they give her immunity to crit? Hot take, would rather mauga delete orissa from the game, and then just go ana zen to kill the mauga. Revert thr crit change

[@MrJoaopedroportes]

Why am I watching a fucking RADICAL BEHAVIORISM view of Operant Conditioning explanation to why Orisa is cancer? And most important, Why I AM enjoying It?

[@Miredio]

Fug is a powerful chemical

[@vividdaydream1516]

This is a comment with opinions on how to improve the video: For maximum impact on the viewer, the intro to "Stimulus>Response>Punishment" section could synchronize you talking about each concept with examples of that concept in action. E.g. every time you say "stimulus," there's an on-screen stimulus playing out in the video. Making your viewers memorize a bunch of new terms you've coined is risky if you want to hold their attention, especially if you could've just used common-knowledge words or terms to make your point. I'd recommend re-naming "Positive vs negative punishment" to "Punishement vs denial," and "FUG/WOMP" to just "Positive/negative reinforcement." On the "A better horse is possible today," you mention overall goals but never describe what Orisa's overall gameplay loop looks like before or after your rework. This makes the proposed changes much harder to visualize, especially for viewers who don't normally play Orisa.

[@SIMPLYDEVON]

why call it fug just say dopamine 🙄

[@Miredio]

Because saying fug gives me dopamine

[@__OS__]

if you assume that games like this can't be balanced, due to the inherent mechanics, she ain't that bad, not like released brig lul

[@pauliman1098]

Wait... So the terrible mythic skin was intentional....?

[@AzureCreations]

As an orisa main i can't really agree with ram being a better orisa as in the current meta and from experience ram is just not good enough to compete with other tanks also orisa being as strong as she is feels justified with heroes like roadhog just existing but thats just my opinion good vid tho.

[@austinburke450]

Its equine time

[@judahgray2910]

But… orisa is my favorite character :’( (im new to the game😭)

[@Miredio]

I do know there's people that genuinely enjoy her as is, and that's fine! My goal was to propose a version of her that can be both enjoyable by a larger demographic AND less frustrating to fight, that way the community wouldn't be so bitter about her in every balance patch (or even just unrelated posts)

[@skrrrtsusman3450]

I love Orisa the character, hate the gameplay

[@darkfire7584]

Ok i know this is a super hot take but i think that orisa genuinely should be strait deleted from the game as she ruins the fun of a lot of the characters especially tanks and even when you counter orisa it still isn't fun and dont get me started on how terrible it feels to play any other tank against orisa now im personally a junker queen main but even when i play other characters orist is still not fun to fight and personally i say a video games whole point is to have fun so if you have a character who is just ruining the fun than get rid of them.

[@Avabees]

And league of legends players complain about stat checkers lol

[@Avabees]

Also, old orisa fan here. She was my fave tank for a long time. Being an impenetrable wall thats hard to dislodge was so cool. Also her right click was such dopamine for combos 😩

[@LittleLilith481]

Orisa is both boring and broken. At least Mauga can be fun if u blast heavy metal into your ears while playing him and rolling the enemy team

[@Miredio]

Mauga NOT being fun at all times is honestly a crime, guy wields TWO chainguns!

[@officialsumo6192]

Let teammates ride the horse lol

[@lennart_glimpsel]

Bro, 0 clue what the fuck you were cooking with the "what makes something feel good" chapter 😂😂

[@tunahan4418]

Someone lost to orisa and made a whole 30 minute cope video💀 any decent zarya melts orisa in 2 seconds

[@MarcusFenix52923]

I have but a simple solution to fix ALL of our problems! Blizzard, remove the horse from the game :D

[@sparrowilan7418]

We cant understand what u are saying

[@rhiisnow]

you must be stupid

[@GumOnTheWall]

I can understand fine

[@ironencepersonal9634]

If it were my desicion, lean more into the spear, make a spear melee jab the primary fire. Give orisa a shield with it; a physical shield for personal defense, not an energy barrier (though it still uses energy as a mechanic). Make her kit take inspiration from jousting