Orthochromatic v Panchromatic B&W Film

In this video I shoot a couple of rolls of Ilford Ortho 80 alongside Delta 100 in typical landscape settings. Does the Orthochromatic film offer something different for me?
Equipment Used
Bronica SQA-i
Velbon Ultra 655 tripod with Manfrotto MG460 head
Sekonic L-508 spotmeter
Preview App
Mark II Artists Viewfinder (App Store)
Vlogging Equipment
GoPro Hero 7 Black
Film Digitisation
Panasonic G9 with 30mm Panasonic Macro lens
Hi-res (multi-shot) mode raw captures
Both films developed together in Xtol 1:1 for 9.5 minutes
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Contact Details
Email: [e-mail] Twitter: Steve_ONions / steve_onions Instagram: steveonions1 / steveonions1

[@russellyoung2852]

How did I miss this video? Your videos are virtually always worth watching, to enjoy the exquisite scenery and to learn from an excellent teacher. Although hard to choose a 'best' video, this one certainly has to be in the Top Five for scenic beauty, image aesthetics and knowledge imparted. These must take so much labour on your part - thank you. Coincidentally, I was testing Ortho vs Tmax100 at about the same time. RB67 with two backs and Crawley's FX-37 developer. Turned out that Ortho and FX-37 were a marriage made in heaven. Your discussion of internal vs external validity in a research design was right to the point. External validity, i.e., testing film on your normal/favourite subject seemed most important and here in Virginia's Blue Ridge Mountains, greens and blues are really all that matter. I tried K-2 yellow and Hoya's XO yellow-green filters in my test. The Ortho + XO was a magical combination that I have maintained ever since.

[@SteveONions]

I’m glad your experiments with Ortho turned out so well Russell, I was pleased that the yellow filter added something worthwhile and made Ortho a valid choice for landscapes.

[@glennhunt3725]

Hey, I bought the ortho image Steve shot in this video and it printed beautifully in square format. Good way to thank your KZbin host.

[@SteveONions]

Thanks Glenn 🙂

[@AustenGoldsmithPhotography]

I've had a few rolls of ortho in the fridge for a long time , this doesn't inspire me to crack them open unless I run out of other films Thanks for making the video . I know how time consuming it is

[@SteveONions]

Thank you. My personal subject matter probably doesn’t suit an Ortho film, people who shoot portraits and warmer colours have reported a much bigger difference versus conventional panchromatic materials.

[@AustenGoldsmithPhotography]

Makes me wonder how it might perform on a rich warm red sunset ? @@SteveONions

[@yl9154]

Beautiful landscape! Interesting subject. Ortho film have been buried deep, deep in the back of my memory. Kind of "I think there was something special with the red"! :-)

[@jeffdrew625]

Oh the memories! I shot lots of ortho films, for finer grain & boosted contrast, before the advent of Delta 100 & T-max 100 films. It took me a while to embrace the new films, but they are relatively more flexible. Thanks for this video and a view of your workflow, and some gorgeous scenery!

[@SteveONions]

Thanks Jeff, glad it’s not just me.

[@kevin-parratt-artist]

Thanks heaps for this, Steve. 👌

[@SteveONions]

You’re welcome 😊

[@ktulu193]

Thanks for your continuous quality content, Steve! Learning loads and you make it very enjoyable. Agree with your philosophy of testing in a real world situation

[@SteveONions]

Thanks David 👍

[@thomaspopple2291]

With the idea of getting it as close to correct in camera, I would have to pick the Ortho. The Ortho, except that one shot, showed much better contrast and separation. The only drawback for me for the Ortho is how it renders skies. Great video. Thank you for the continued great content.

[@SteveONions]

Thanks Thomas. I was surprised that the skies came out so well with the Ortho and yellow filter and I did like the contrast. Delta is also excellent and cheaper/faster which doesn’t do any harm. I also prefer slightly lower contrast negatives so I can step it up later in the darkroom - usually easier than wrestling with high contrast film.

[@aerialfilm1]

When I started late 70s in high school, we had HP5 in bulk so I became enamored with that look by default. I only found delta many years later right about the time I was winding down darkroom life. Even today decades later I have a knee jerk habit of going for punch and crunch even though my tastes have changed dramatically. Head meet brick wall and repeat 😶.

[@gurhanpekuz1813]

Really nice, comparison! Thanks a lot 🙏

[@SteveONions]

Thanks Gürhan.

[@davidharle8794]

Great video as ever. Were you using a different video camera? It seemed very crisp and the colours were very good. As to the films, it looked like a definite draw to me, and as Delta 100 is cheaper and easier to source, I don't think I will be rushing out to buy the ortho film! You are right, the only way to find out id to do a fair comparison in typical use, so thanks for saving the rest of us the trouble!

[@SteveONions]

Thanks David. Video was the old GoPro 7 as usual but the bright clear conditions really suit it and it does have great colours.

[@DizinEire]

Not that long ago I had a look at getting some Ortho in 10x8. I liked the idea of being able to use a safelight and cut it down to 18x24 cm for my FKD. Load it into the Dark slides and tray process it by inspection . However, was put off by the price. A little eye watering for 25 sheets! We have just got back from quick visit to Wales. Wish we had your weather😆 Like the images at 7 m Steve. Though there isnt a great deal of difference in either emulsions. Great vlog as usual Steve. Cheers Diz

[@SteveONions]

Thanks Diz. I was hoping for more of a difference in the films but I think this could be due to subject matter. Landscapes may not be the best option, others have commented that it is well suited to portraiture.

[@buyaport]

Thanks a lot for all the effort that went into this comparison. It might save me quite some money :-)

[@SteveONions]

You’re welcome 🙂

[@OliverEvergreen]

10:33 what a composition!

[@rickhauser9698]

Just a super job on the comparison Steve!!! Having shot a bit of Delta 100 I m really looking forward to shooting the Ortho 80!! Cheers 🥂

[@SteveONions]

I think you’ll like it Rick.

[@innstikk]

Just what I needed to know about the Ortho. Thanks

[@neilpiper9889]

My Grandfather used a yellow green filter with Ortho film on his quarter plate camera. He dish developed under a red light by visual inspection

[@SteveONions]

I’ve got a couple of yellow/green filters Neil, they appear close to yellow I’m effect but I need to experiment more.

[@JamesCormier]

Great comparison Steve! I was contemplating such a test and glad to have seen you've done this. The Ortho terminology immediately sends up a high contrast flag. Your tests reveal it to be similar to Delta 100, albeit nominally higher contrast. Spectrally, I would expect the contrast to be more stark if we included red objects such as rocks, bricks, or blossoms. I was quite surprised to see the Ortho 80 hold more highlight textures in a few of your frames, notably the clouded skies. I was fearing a whitewash here. I believe Delta 100 to an overall better stock to have on hand given its flexibility, including its finer reciprocity characteristics. Thank you for presenting us with these results!

[@SteveONions]

It did surprise me too James. I think there’s a feeling that any bright sky will end up totally blank but this just isn’t the case. It was good to see plenty of detail in the highlights and these came out in a darkroom print too, albeit with a pre-flash. Delta 100 would be my choice though overall given the slight speed advantage and price.

[@mkshffr4936]

Ortho might be just the ticket for classic cameras with the red window for frame numbers. It looks like it might be difficult to get a dramatic sky though.

[@SteveONions]

I’ve yet to have a problem with the red window on the back of old cameras but Ortho would certainly be ideal if there was any sign of leakage.

[@ulfosterberg9116]

A small piece of black plastic tape. If you feel nervous.

[@johnmarriott9166]

Well done, plenty of food for thought, an enjoyable comparison.

[@SteveONions]

Thanks John.

[@lhuhnphotography]

Thanks Steve. This was timely for me because I have been considering buying some 8x10 x-ray film which is orthochromatic as well. Not the same film as the Ilford, but it may have similar results.

[@SteveONions]

Hope the films works out Larry 👍

[@briglnai]

would love to see some kodak films one day... love your Episodes Steve, keep up the great work!

[@erichstocker8358]

I bet that last shot with the trees reflected in the water would have been great with infrared film!

[@SteveONions]

It would!

[@peterdadson7713]

Thanks for another great video Steve. Haven’t tried either film but will put both on my list on the next film order.

[@SteveONions]

Glad you found it useful Peter.

[@4CardsMan]

I read somewhere that young women in the 1920's used black or very dark lipstick to match the look of Hollywood movies, which were shot on ortho film, which rendered red lipstick as black.

[@SteveONions]

I never knew that 👍

[@jimgraves4197]

There's very little between the two films, this is a decent comparison, Steve.

[@SteveONions]

Thanks Jim.

[@jolyonstone4942]

I've come to the party a bit late on this, sorry. A very interesting video! I have shot Agfaortho 25 on 35mm over the years, still got a half roll left in the drawer. It is completely different to the Ilford, much more contrasty, my skies always turned out completely clear! (Probably due to under-exposing and over developing since i nearly always handhold!). The Ilford looks to be less extreme, more balanced but the ortho film I want to try is Rollei. I never thought of putting a yellow filter on though Perhaps a grey grad would put some life in the skies without killing the rest of the shot too much.

[@SteveONions]

A grey grad would certainly work here, I’m always telling myself to use one more often but I usually forget!

[@johnbee1069]

As usual, your video is most informative and helpful - I will make good use of this information in my own experience

[@SteveONions]

Thank you John.

[@wflan]

I enjoyed the video - you've got a great eye and live in a beautiful place. That place, however, has almost nothing in the red and orange spectrum where there's a really pronounced difference between the films. It's almost like you (unintentionally?) found scenes that would compare the two films only in the spectrum they're both sensitive to, to identify the subtle differences. Somewhere with clay, brick, sandstone, iron, rust, etc would really show the ortho effect, if you were ever tempted to repeat the experiment. Which, again, I highly enjoyed so I encourage you to do so!

[@SteveONions]

Good point, the conditions didn’t really suit Ortho film but then again it does represent 90% of the days I shoot on.

[@barriegrundy4004]

again, great content,very informative. great photos..

[@SteveONions]

Thanks Barrie.

[@EldestSugar918]

Great video, Steve! Love the images!

[@SteveONions]

Thank you 🙂

[@dalkapur]

Some really lovely images there, Steve. Regarding the test, too close to call once you punch up the contrast on the Delta. But agree with your conclusion: ability to use a red filter and price makes this a win for the Delta.

[@SteveONions]

Same here Richard, Delta 100 is an all rounder, hard to beat.

[@andrey_mika]

I wonder if Delta+Orange filter would bring it even closer to Ortho for the shots where you liked Orthor better… Really liked your reflections shot

[@SteveONions]

Possibly, there’s a whole lot of things that might balance the two but the upshot is they appeared very similar overall when developed in Xtol 🙂

[@Roman-oi7rz]

No, no way. Delta+Orange filter brings the orange/red spectrum lighter and makes the blue darker while Ortho does opposite.

[@andrey_mika]

@@Roman-oi7rz Makes sense... That's exactly what I've observed with Delta+Orange 2 days ago : ) Thanks for a comment

[@constantinestewart7416]

Very comprehensive comparison. Thanks much for this informative video.

[@SteveONions]

You’re welcome 😊

[@vintagephotographer]

Suffering from the CBAs - I know that feeling! 😂

[@randybennett6846]

Really great comparison...was still holding out to use, very helpful for me. As always a great video..

[@SteveONions]

Glad you liked it Randy.

[@gui4j]

great comparison and examples, very good tutorial ...some very nice images :)

[@SteveONions]

Thanks Dguyn.

[@epstar83]

Great video Steve!

[@SteveONions]

Thanks Michael.

[@Roman-oi7rz]

Nice video Steve. Always a pleasure to watch. I'm using Ortho already for a while and really fell in love with it. But in your video I guess you picked up a wrong subject to compare those films. I'm mostly using Ortho during the fall season when we have a lot of orange/red colors. Ortho makes the yellow/orange much darker and turns red to total black while makes the blue spectrum a bit lighter than the regular pan film. Also i noticed that Ortho makes the mist/fog more stand out that creates some sort of mysterious mood which is not possible to manipulate in PS/Lr. Because its more narrow spectrum sensitivity the film is quite contrasty. Didn't find any advantage of using yellow filter since this makes the film looking more like regular pan film. Develop in Ilfotec DD-x 10 min (Ilford recommends 10:30 -11:30) and grain similar to FP4.

[@SteveONions]

It would be good to try in Autumn Roman but that’s a relatively short period for us. I agree that mist would look, same when using a blue filter on panchromatic film.

[@lensman5762]

Very nice indeed. Neither the Delta 100 nor the Ortho 80 Plus, are films that I have shot extensively, but I shot a roll of Ortho 80 a couple of months ago and to me it appeared to be more like a 50 ASA emulsion. Mind you, I did use a Pyro developer. Interesting comparison.

[@SteveONions]

It’s not a bad film at all and has decent contrast. I’d need to shoot a lot more to fully understand the best uses for it.

[@dradmin792]

Great video and capturies!

[@SteveONions]

Thank you 🙂

[@Eclectachrome]

Well done video! Love the comparison and recently shot Ortho the first time myself so interesting to see your results!

[@SteveONions]

I hope your film came out well, it’s a very interesting material.

[@foggygray]

Great comparison. I'd love to see the Ortho 80 compared to Pan F too. I'll be shooting some Ortho 80 this winter for some snow I think. From what I've seen Ortho shines with architecture.

[@SteveONions]

It’ll probably compare well with Pan F Andrew, both are high contrast and grain will be very close too.

[@johnjon1823]

Excellent G9 images ;) loved the dog cam at 9:21. I like the ortho 80 with yellow filter, seems to bring out some detail that the other film does not. Perhaps a video on your total scanning and digital process of film would be nice.

[@SteveONions]

Thanks John. I tend to avoid videos on workflow and processing, things change so quickly in that field.

[@SinaFarhat]

Nice comparison! :)

[@SteveONions]

Thanks Sina 👍

[@alangauld6079]

I bought a roll of Ortho at the Photo Show back in September, but I'm keeping it for brighter weather so haven't seen the results yet. But based on your shots, with the exception of the woodland bridge, I preferred the Ortho to the Delta. It will be interesting to see how it compares to my usual Foma 100 and XP2. Nice job.

[@SteveONions]

Definitely give it a go Alan, it’s a very nice film and I should retry it in the summer.

[@VintageInsightPhotography]

Nice comparison. I’ve been sitting on a roll of Ilford Ortho for a few months now. I’ll get around to shooting it someday…

[@SteveONions]

Hope you like it, a nice film indeed.

[@erichstocker8358]

I tried Otho and still have some. However, I had trouble with the higher contrast. I need to pick my subjects better I believe. Enjoyed th episode. I was surprised with the Otho use of the yellow filter.

[@SteveONions]

Thanks Erich. I was surprised at the food response with the yellow filter too, most agreeable.

[@MB-or8js]

To me the look of the Delta 100 shot at 14:15 is interesting - means that this film has some IR-like reproduction with foliage. I have seen it before with TMax 100, but FP4+ 125 film for example doesn't show the sunlit foliage like this (more grey there).

[@SteveONions]

Interesting, I hadn’t noticed it myself but it may be more apparent with deeper red filters. I’ve managed excellent IR results before with Rollei retro 80s when rated at EI 1 with an r72 filter.

[@MB-or8js]

@@SteveONions I found that sometimes a yellow filter like you used here is already good enough to bring foliage out with white IR cast. But it depends on the sensitivity of the film in the IR light. I have to try Delta 100 myself since it seems different than FP4+ 125 here with yellow filter.

[@nevilleholmes1324]

A useful video. I was interesred as I am considering which box of 5x7 to buy next. Ortho80 has an advantage that I could tray develop under a safelight.

[@SteveONions]

Glad it was helpful.

[@wmeckert945]

Gorgeous video! Nice well-considered comparison. Quite useful to have that analysis. On a side note, I keep wondering what happened with your Konica Pearl. Is it still in use?

[@SteveONions]

Not much from the Pearl this year as I’ve been standardising on a limited number of cameras 🙂

[@morrisbagnall2690]

Very enjoyable as always. Have you tried Rollei 400S or Agfa 80S Steve? Could make for fascinating landscape/forest work.

[@SteveONions]

I’ve used a fair bit of 80s Morris, very contrasty and fickle but incredibly sharp and fine grained. I briefly used 400S but didn’t like it.

[@herbanamed]

Very nice post, Steve. I was amazed at the lower contrast of the Delta100 despite the yellow filter. If I take into account the exposure with Delta 100 @ 80, should the development time not be longer than with the Ortho80? Or was the exposure time adapted to the lower sensitivity?

[@SteveONions]

The Delta was effectively overexposed Philipp so I was surprised how well the Ortho compared in terms of shadow detail. The difference in development times required for each was small enough (about 5%) that I ignored it but to be exact I would need to add time for the Ortho 80 as you correctly state.

[@jimwlouavl]

Thanks for this video. I’m planning to shoot 5x7 and 4x5 for palladium printing and am thinking the ortho would give me a little more contrasty image, especially in winter when green is not a factor.

[@SteveONions]

There’s definitely more contrast in the ones I shut Jim, can’t say if this would always be the case.

[@AyalSharon]

Next time take photos of scenery with lots of red (e.g. fall foliage). I'm willing to bet that there will be a huge difference between the two films.

[@SteveONions]

I rarely shoot anything with much red in it so I’ll leave that for you to try 😊

[@fandyus4125]

Hey Steve! I know you like to shoot in IR sometimes, but have you ever thought of shooting in UV? It definitely gives an interesting look (even for landscapes). Using ortho film you could pull it off without any super expensive filters. Tangsinuo sells a filter called ZWB2 which would deliver.

[@SteveONions]

I’ve never given it much thought to be honest, I’ve always thought of the lower end of the spectrum being a bit muddy for landscapes.

[@fandyus4125]

@@SteveONions Okay, if you think so, it's your choice. But it can add a misty feeling when it's clear daylight, I thought that could be something you'd like.

[@akaidekliin]

Wonderful set of images. Eventhough i prefer the look of Ortho in some pictures, i think Delta gives more constant results in different sscenarios. I wonder what's your take on FP4 vs Delta 100 and HP5 vs Delta 400. Thanks for everything you share with us and to always inspire to go out:-)

[@SteveONions]

Delta 400 is more contrasty than HP5+, a punchier look overall. Delta 100 is finer grained than FP4+ and shines in Xtol. Horses for courses here but I’ve never had any problem with any of the films you’ve referenced here, all look great if exposed and developed properly 🙂

[@akaidekliin]

@@SteveONions Thank you Steve :-)

[@kenjensen5930]

Very interesting Steve, especially as I have just purchased a roll of each of these films. Question - It is my understanding that fine grain films like these are suitable for push process, however when/under which circumstances would you push a film for a landscape shot? Thanks - also using a Bronica BTW

[@SteveONions]

Hi Ken. I don’t usually push slow films but it can work providing you don’t have a contrasty scene. Typically faster films like HP5+ are pushed, the lower contrast works in your favour here as it is increased due to the extra development needed thanks to the underexposure. I only push film on dull days when I need the extra speed for handholding and know that the boost in contrast will also help give the scene more punch.

[@CornishMotorcycleDiaries]

Hi Steve, thanks for that very timely video as I have just shot some Ortho on both 4x5 and MF. I was wondering how compatible it would be with filters, so that question is answered. My other question would be what is the best developer for it. I have Rodinal to hand, or would you suggest Xtol as that is what you used?

[@SteveONions]

I’d have no qualms using Rodinal for a slow film like this, it will give a very sharp negative. Xtol is nice in that you tend to get a little more speed out of it and the sharpness and grain are excellent but in large format Rodinal is a good choice too.

[@walterglover3423]

I wonder how a comparison between Delta & Ortho might be when shooting stone & brick in the built environment? FP4 Plus might be an interesting cat to lob in amongst those pigeons on another day also.

[@SteveONions]

Definitely a different result Walter, not sure I’d match those two up for my particular subjects.

[@kenblair2538]

Great video and comparison of those 2 film's. I sort of like the Ortho , should be fun to try a roll. I love experimenting . On a side question , dealing with filters . For the past several months, I've been photographing landscapes with a No. 8 yellow filter on the lens , all the time. Now I don't print in the darkroom, scan and digital print . I adjust my contrast in post, so am I wasting time using a yellow filter . Thank you. KB

[@SteveONions]

Interesting question on the use of mild filters for B&W Ken. The No8 gives a gentle but noticeable improvement to most landscapes but given you have a hybrid workflow it’s relatively easy to do a lot of this in post. You can take all sorts of liberties if making scans, I preferred thin negs personally whereas in the darkroom I want a thicker one. I’m answer to your question I would use the yellow if possible unless you need the extra speed. I don’t use any filters on very dull days.

[@kenblair2538]

@@SteveONions Thanks Steve. That makes sense . I'll leave the yellow on, except for dull days. Ken

[@kieranpicken3696]

I wonder if developing the Delta in a T-grain specific developer like FX-39 would bring more noticeable differences in sharpness and contrast?

[@SteveONions]

I’m not sure there would be much difference Kieran but as well all know each developer behaves differently with every film. Xtol is a good starting point as is ID-11/D76 so experimentation may yield benefits with either or both films. That said, the overall tonality would probably remain comparable on the subjects I chose to shoot in the video.

[@robertmcglinchey3347]

Is Ilford the new vinyl? CVS is a very large pharmacy chain here in the states. They still sell FujiFilm (≈ $8/36) and process print film .($17/36). C-41 process. (Isn’t Ilford5 C-41?). The downside to CVS is a CD is in exchange of your negatives.

[@foggygray]

Ilford XP2 is C41 black and white. The rest of their films are standard black and white.

[@SteveONions]

It’s an easy film to process, standard C-41 worldwide.

[@bcegerton]

Can you tell me the name of that first lake/Llyn you were at please. Just started with film and your channel has been invaluable to me

[@SteveONions]

Hope you are enjoying film Brian. The first location is Llyn Dywarchen near Rhyd Ddu.

[@bcegerton]

@@SteveONions Thanks for that, appreciate it. 1st roll was blank so new roll and different camera, I’ve got a few but only cheap ones and was given some too

[@jimbob2861]

Any chance you'll be trying ilford SPX 200? 😁

[@SteveONions]

I have I’m the past JimBob, not my favourite and less convincing IR than Rollei IR400. Very expensive too.

[@gusatvoschiavon]

do a double feature using the ortho 80 and delta 3200 for landscapes

[@ktulu193]

Using the same settings, Pushing ortho 2.5 stops and pulling d3200 2.5 stops

[@gusatvoschiavon]

@@ktulu193 no, I want to see the Ortho with really long exposure and the delta with fast shutterspeed and closed apertures 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

[@ktulu193]

@@gusatvoschiavon that sounds much more reasonable. My comment was meant to be a joke ;)

[@gusatvoschiavon]

@@ktulu193 but it would be a nice experiment

[@SteveONions]

That would be quite a comparison - sadly not one I’ll be doing 😀