Orvis HELIOS 4 is finally here. But do you need it?

[@SeemsLikeSomething]

I’m currently rocking an Aetos 9’ 5wt, and a St Croix Imperial 9’ 7wt, mostly fish for small/medium sized bass, but like the idea of a general rod wt that can handle a bit more, or scale down a bit for lighter presentations too. I think a 5 does seem about right but there are certainly times where it may be a bit light for hooking into a larger bass. I haven’t quite fell in love with either rod yet, and I strongly suspect my natural fishing style is with a more medium action rod. Looking at the new Helios, it’s pricy as heck, but I’m considering just getting best of the best so as not to fight my gear and feel a bit more in tune with the rod. I’m sure there are many viable options but this is the one I’m eyeballing. So be it. Any suggestions regarding weight or length, or D/F selection? Something to note is, I’m fairly sure I lean toward a shorter rod, shorter leaders. Sure I’d like to get the best generalized application, and longer casts, but if I’m not feeling the rod, I just fight it and wind up not really in the zone. I’d rather take a few feet off my cast to feel better in tune with it. I appreciate any suggestions. I fish in southern Ontario, and into the Haliburton and muskoka areas. Mostly inland freshwater, rocky lakes, or shallow weedy for a variety of small/mid sized species, mostly smallmouth and largemouth. Tend toward small/medium streamers or a bit of top water. Almost always floating line, sometimes with a polyleader situation. Cheers many thanks for any advice!

[@bigholelodgeMT]

Hey! The short version is that both of the new Helios rod flexes do more than their H3 predecessors.The new Helios F is still an excellent finesse rod, but it also easily handles streamer/indicator work much better than the H3F. To me, it is much more of versatile tool than the H3F. The new Helios D has lots of high-end energy like the H3D, but is less stiff and more pleasant rod to cast. Both rods are more efficient to load with a higher rebound rate than the H3. The D is a tip-flex rod, what most consider “fast”. The F is a mid-flex rod, often considered a “moderate action”. However, both are the same graphite and rebound rate. The difference in feel is the taper of the blank. Same as a fly line taper. A longer front taper is more delicate, a shorter front taper its more of a hammer. Both rods can carry the grain weight of its associate line weight. They just do it differently. I’m first to admit the 906 H3D was a little too burly in the butt section for how soft the tip was. It had a tendency to taco especially into wind. It was more like a 6 ¾ weight in my opinion. It was more sensitive to lines as well. It liked shorter, over-weighted heads. The new 905 F is my favorite for dryfly work and the 906 D is one of my favorite rods ever made for bigger bugs and sink tips. The updates from the H3 to the H4 are efficiency in the taper to have a smoother, more accurate delivery. Along with the efficiency of taper, same was updated in production process to utilize less material by relying on the loop strength of the rod blanks. Making them lighter swing weight. Long story short. I don’t know that I’d call the new rod versions “less stiff”. They are more efficient at loading energy and giving it back. The F is higher energy, faster rebound but still with the nice full load. The D, is still crisp, powerful and responsive, but smoother. What does that mean to the angler? Putting in less energy when casting to get a higher result (accuracy, distance, line speed). For casting bass bugs, whatever rod you land on, I would encourage changing your line to either a Bass taper or a Titan taper. They will make it much easier to cast large, wind resistant flies than the Infinity you are currently using. Also, the new Helios 857 (8’5” 7 wt.) is super-light, very easy to cast, and is quickly gaining a reputation among those who have fished it as a go-to streamer/big fly rod for repetitive casting. Hope this helps!

[@SeemsLikeSomething]

@@bigholelodgeMT thanks so much for the speedy reply! What are your thoughts on what the H4F 4wt 7’6”? Would you say that is just too light to be handling smaller bass flies? I sort of go small for the sake of catching more variety of fish when I’m fly fishing, so I tend toward slightly smaller presentations than the average lunker hunter fisherman lol, sure I wanna catch a trophy too but I’m absolutely happy just catching fish, and a small/medium bass fly does that just fine. What is usually the purpose of a shorter fly rod, other than terrain necessity? I know the trout guys will use shorter rods in the tight areas. Is there an applicable difference when room for a back cast is a non issue? Cheers!

[@bigholelodgeMT]

It's as much about line weight and mass to deliver bass flies as it is about rod configuration. If you are committed to a 4 wt, then I would definitely be thinking longer than the 7'6" length, simply to keep the fly clear of my head and out of surrounding grass, tule brush, etc. The 8' 6" Helios 4F with a MPX 4 wt line would be pretty fun for a shorter 4wt. That said, it's hard for me to imagine bass fishing lighter than a 5 wt and I would recommend a 9' 5D with a 5 wt Amplitude Smooth Titan Long (+2 line wt heavy), or a 6 wt. MPX (+1.5 line wt. heavy). Hope this helps!@@SeemsLikeSomething

[@SeemsLikeSomething]

@@bigholelodgeMT definitely helps a bunch, thanks for all the great pointers!!

[@bigholelodgeMT]

Sure thing! And just to be more clear, the Scientific Angler MPX is a 1/2 heavy line, so a 6 wt MPX on a 5 wt fast-action rod (905D) is a 6.5 wt = 1.5 heavy. The Titan is already 2 line weights heavy, so a 5 wt Titan = a 7 wt line = +2 heavy. @@SeemsLikeSomething

[@rudyruiz9521]

Great information. When they say 4x better accuracy than the H3. That's great but that doesn't translate to anything if you haven't thrown an H3. That said, there are other factors involved in the cast that will effect the cast more than some microscopic measurment. What so I mean? I do not have any idea what measurement they are but lets say rod X moves 1/4 inch consistently and rod Y moves 1/16th of an inch. 4X less! How that translates to a caster who can't get the job done in the first place is a mute point. I think am honest percentage of casters who can benifit from a new rod is pretty small. For the vast majority get good at casting what you have first

[@williammiller5449]

Agreed - I am nowhere near the level of casting skill where I would notice the difference between a Helios 4 rod (or other premium rod) and a budget rod. Also, I was always told by excellent casters that good casting was 99% the caster and 1% the equipment.

[@RidgidRon]

I just picked up 5 wt, 3D when these came out and was impressed by the way it cast. Looking forward to landing a fish on it between work and family. I will keep my eye out on this!! Thank you for the update

[@gtheshortguya4649]

Thank you for including your pops. I am new to your channel and don't know if you include him regularly. But I respect that and will subscribe.

[@bigholelodgeMT]

Welcome, and thank you! Yes, though he doesn't love being on camera i'm doing my best to harness his decades of knowledge for this learning-focused channel.

[@africanwidow]

Excellent review. Loved how you talked about it and compared it to other things. Which 4 weight F series do I want? A 9' or something else? 🙂

[@bigholelodgeMT]

Glad it was helpful. I'd recommend the 9' four weight.

[@BortKommen]

I’ve seen a lot of people talk about the specs on a rod and how it’s the best, but you also talk about the feeling of casting a rod and how it’s important. Love that! Don’t think you persuaded me to buy the new Helios, but you got me thinking about it! I’m a old school angler, glasfiber rods, silklines and classic reels 😊

[@dvdport89]

Sounds like you have many wonderful opportunities for outdoor sports! Don't see why you had to drag golf into it...

[@numinut]

Mark Twain: "Golf, a good walk, spoiled."

[@oldsmugglerflyfishing]

I would love to give it a try

[@charleydupre3397]

I have both the Helios 3D in a 5 wt and The 4 in 4wt...along with a TFO 3 wt and love all 3 in their own situation.

[@melstallard5862]

I definitely appreciate your review. Love your dads opinion! One of the best things about the release of the 4th generation is the opportunity to purchase the Helios 3s at a price I could afford. I was a professional skier in my youth. I have enjoyed the incredible advancement of ski equipment over the years. I was a little confused by your comment about not having an interest in replacing your current skis because your happy with them, when willing to replace your fly rod with the new Helios 4. The current day skis are a world apart from just a few years ago. They allow you to enjoy your day on the hill so much more. I know I’m nobody, but as the new rod would improve your day on the river, a new pair of skis will definitely improve your day on the hill. Go try some of the new skis as well 😁

[@bigholelodgeMT]

Point well taken!

[@caddis0300]

I had a H3 7 wt and I bought an H4 6 wt. The H4 so impressed me and I noticed a big difference in how well I could cast it that I traded-in the H3 7 and got the H4 7. Both are D models. For 4 and 5 weight lines I still like my Scott and Winston rods. The Pure 5 and G Series 4 are perfect for what I like.

[@gordonpotter6477]

You mentioned you were shocked to find out you were casting a 4 weight and how well it handled the larger river. Do you know if it was the F or D that you were fishing? I’m currently torn between the two. Curious your thoughts.

[@bigholelodgeMT]

Hi Gordon. I was fishing the F. The F is a more progressive flex through the middle of the rod which translates to more Finesse in dropping a dry fly. The D is a bit faster, with more of a tip-flex and best for cutting wind and turning over heavier flies. If you're used to a faster flex like a Sage i'd recommend the D, but if you're primarily dry fly fishing we highly recommend the F. I hope this helps!

[@scottbarmby]

Great Video!!! Thanks !!!

[@bigholelodgeMT]

Glad you liked it!

[@glencamblin]

Great review. I love my old GL3 it still casts like the day I bought it I own a orvis blackout and it’s a rocket launcher. 1k for this upgrade is a hard sell but I have to admit 25% durability is needed we broke the blackout twice in a few months

[@weisswurstfruhstuck8523]

It’s amazingly light. 5WT felt like a 4 or even 3 weight. Though I didn’t fall in love with it at all. Didn’t really care much about it. Same with the gloomis Asquith 490. somehow I felt the orvis lacked soul and the Asquith was just like a dead stick to me. Maybe better in a higher salt line weight. Stick to my Scott or stickman rods! Or I go for a Solitip rod from my friend Theo who makes these amazing solid tip rods for fly fishing which is amazing to me none of the fly rod brands do so. Amazing benefits.

[@chrishenslick5482]

Do they have a euro version?

[@jimsmith8324]

I used a Helios D in 9 weight for salmon/steelhead on the Salmon River, NY this year. The Helios struggled with the heavy lead needed for salmon. It did much better with the reduced lead used for steelhead. It's not bad for steelhead. But the G. Loomis NRX plus is much better for salmon as the stronger tip handles heavy lead much better.

[@jeffreyhildebrand4867]

My enjoyment from fly fishing comes from my skills not that of the equipment. I know from practice what I can and cannot do and am constantly trying to improve. I pride myself on figuring out what it takes to get an eat, then put myself within range to deliver the fly to the fish. If it doesn’t happen, it’s all part of the enjoyment. The Helios 4 will be attractive to people who take one or two fishing trips a year to exotic parts of the world ($$$$) and need the extra advantage in their equipment to balance out their lack of skill. After all, who wants to spend $10K+ on a fishing trip and come home with nothing to brag about?

[@bigholelodgeMT]

We hear ya and share your sentiment on enjoyment. This rod is special though and we feel it makes the casting part of the process more enjoyable. We're lucky enough to fish more than a couple days a year so the investment was well worth it. Milage will certainly differ.

[@davidball5002]

And they kept that horrible white paint? Why?

[@bigholelodgeMT]

You sure can tell what rod folks are fishing from across the river though!

[@robsmith8024]

Agreed, it’s tacky and certainly not subtle. I’ll stick with Hardy.

[@caseycravens7062]

The single biggest fuck up in modern rod history. It's ugly and will spook large wild fish.

[@SeamusMcFitz-jz9if]

Because color matters for fish. Obviously. Who cares?

[@davidball5002]

@@SeamusMcFitz-jz9if The fish might not care about the crappy looking white label but the fish is not the one paying almost 2 grand (in Australia) for a rod. When I pay that much I can get a rod that is at least as good as the Orvis and looks very classy (Scott Centric is one example). So why would I buy the ugly one? A lot of people agree.

[@davepapineau]

Respectfully almost all of these marketing points were things that were true or said about the helios 3. I know because I worked for Orvis for 3 years. To me this sounds like much more of a rebrand than a revolution. The interchangeable parts, The matte finishes, The tracking and the swing weight are all selling points of the h3.

[@bigholelodgeMT]

Thanks! Having owned and loved H3 and now having fished this fourth gen H4, the tracking and the swing weight are both significantly improved on this rod.

[@brooktroutangler5917]

@@bigholelodgeMT It's $1,100 it certainly isn't that much better than the H3. If you were throwing say an Orvis Trident......I woud say yeah the difference is significant

[@Dandallasfishing]

Helios 9’ 5wt D or F? And why? I ordered and F bit was sent a D I already have a 10’ 3F and a 9’ 3D.

[@bigholelodgeMT]

We prefer the 9' 5wt F for dry fly fishing. The D is great if you need to throw a dry and a dropper, if you're fishing in a stiff breeze, or if you're throwing a small streamer. The F is a sweet, progressive flex that is just a joy to fish a dry fly with. That being said, they redid the taper on this generation Helios D and it's not as tip-fast as the 9' 3D you have.

[@Dandallasfishing]

@@bigholelodgeMT Thank you for your quick response. Im heading to Wyoming to fish the Wind in late July with Noah Studdard . I am only bringing one rod, do you think the 5wt 9’ F will throw a dry dropper? Thx again, Dallas

[@rustyknott-W.D]

Let's get real. Orvis, like Yeti, is a great brand. Their products are very well made and do exactly what they're advertised to do. The only problem is that they are WAY overpriced for what you get. You can easily spend half or less for the same quality. I own an Orvis rod and it's fabulous. I also own a TFO that is just as good and is less than half the price. I have a Yeti cooler and a Walmart Ozark Trails cooler and they both keep ice the same. Guess which one is a LOT cheaper! TFO also sells replacement parts for their rods. Tell them which section you broke and you can buy that from them at a reasonable price without sending the whole rod in.

[@stevedowling2365]

Tried on.👍

[@slhibbs]

Can I ask, are you sponsored by Orvis

[@grantfarrell3338]

Is this an ad?

[@bigholelodgeMT]

I guess you could say it is, for our fishing lodge. But the content here is aimed at helping folks make a decision about the newest fly rod announcement.

[@ryantherock7664]

Admittedly you have an Orvis endorsed lodge I’m not sure how objective you can be

[@rustydespain]

If you guys miss the keeper.. then put one on your rod! Easy life fix!

[@TheWildSide369]

If you see a video about how good Lamborghinis are, see them going to point A to point B in the same way of a Ford, but you can not afford the Lambo, don’t complain for its price. Go and watch Ford videos instead.

[@nicholasclay9866]

Where's the damn hook keeper.

[@bigholelodgeMT]

They’re conveniently located all the way up the rod! Very handy for varied leader length

[@nicholasclay9866]

@@bigholelodgeMT Agreed, until you're in a rush to get your line in the water to cast to a fish and tangle your shit all to hell. 😂 At this price point I really at least want the option. Dont get me wrong, love all my H3 rods, but damn do I miss a keeper.

[@gaterb11]

Cmon man…

[@barry4fish19]

Yeah go figure, the two biggest complaints of the H3, the white label and no hook keeper. And they didn’t change either one, for that price? Come on, whatever happened to giving us options?

[@emidyl24]

agreed, SMH I own a couple rods that don't have keepers and bugs the hell outta me. And they're the more expensive rods I own.

[@AnonymousOtters]

It's all marketing bullshit these days. The difference between a $200 and $1000 rod these days isn't even "4x" better. More like 10% nice finish and that doesn't necessarily translate to casting performance

[@christiannilsson4071]

Try something with Graphene , the rods are in the early stage Form 1, is at a middle stage - this is not worth 1k+

[@rangerwhite5165]

A white logo that looks like a stick for the blind. No thanks.

[@winstonchan98]

🤑🤪😜

[@raywalteroutdoors]

Nice ad

[@TheSilver9r]

At about 7:45 min mark you say that no one(other manufacturers) has ever been able to replace just a section of any rod without sending the whole rod back. I know Beulah for one has been doing that for years. Big whoop! In 5 days, is that the big pitch? How much is that going to cost me? I'm sure that's not going to be for free. These rods are retailing for $1475 north of the 49th, what are they expecting people to start financing a rod purchase? I don't care what the rod can do, the price point is ridiculous, for me at least. When you have product lackeys putting out videos trying to convince you why you should spend a ridiculous amount on a fishing tool, you know it's over priced and THEY know it's over priced. But I'm sure the product sluts out there will be selling their family jewels to buy one just to say they have the latest and greatest.

[@bigholelodgeMT]

Thanks. To our knowledge, this is the first time any rod manufacturer has dialed it into 1/1000 of an inch and therefore there shouldn't be any ferrule weak spots and breakage. And the five day turnaround section replacement is free for 25 years! As for price, yes it's expensive. Thankfully there are tons of good rods out there at good price points. A porsche is a ton of fun but a wrangler will get you there too.

[@slhibbs]

This rod is not a porsche, I'll stick with my old SLT

[@weisswurstfruhstuck8523]

@@bigholelodgeMT every European mid priced rod producer does this with the parts?! 🤷🏻‍♂️ guideline. Vision. You just buy the broken part and they send it and it fits. 😂

[@wawywawo]

Need it no no I do not ! Want it ? Oh ya !! 😂 hahahaahahahaha

[@billpitts9802]

I didn't NEED it, but I got one yesterday and want to test it out so much! I decided I could grow into it, and then someday hand it down to my son. I'll go to the Guadalupe River (TX) next week, New Mexico, Montana, and California for the summer and fall fishing. It was a birthday and retirement self-gift. In my test casting, I could pick a spot at varying distances the the "fly" went there! I'm sure it won't disappoint, now it's up to me..

[@brooktroutangler5917]

your Dad made 2-3 casts indoors in a pool and says this is the best rod I've ever put in my hand lol

[@bigholelodgeMT]

He knows what he likes!

[@dankochanek8056]

But do you need it? You don't need anything really. But I own the H3. That rod is way better then I will ever be.

[@JoelSzymczyk]

"BEST" 🤣

[@jamesclose5085]

Swift Fly Fishing Epic Rods, New Zeland. have had the level of fit and the ability to replace any section for years. So do not make false claims.

[@lattapix]

It's been done by the manufacturers in south Korea for years now. Brands like Hardy, Loop, Guideline, Vision etc. They all replace the section you need. Not for about all the US manufacturers until now. Don't believe everything you here is a good rule when it comes to fly rods. That goes for performance and all the technical fluff. But we sure can trust the price tags attached to them.

[@banjovass007]

What a load of nonsense. Over priced tat. How much are Orvis paying you ?

[@rhonda837]

trout was gone when you were waving that white flag. lol

[@bigholelodgeMT]

It certainly is a polarizing accent!

[@mikewasniewski4048]

No.

[@bigholelodgeMT]

fly fishing is a personal endeavor, go with what you like!

[@mikewasniewski4048]

Hey, you asked.@@bigholelodgeMT

[@daviddufour921]

Sorry your video was way too long!!!!!!!

[@bigholelodgeMT]

Thank you for your feedback