OSRS Balancing changes, Hurting Mid level Players? Why?

Jagex has done a lot of amazing updates but these ones I feel miss the mark
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[@KrepaFren]

I love your videos and I 100% agree with many of the points you make. I am unable to convince friends to get into OSRS precisely because of the massive gap there is between mid game and raid content.

[@FireWizzrobe]

Very insightful. Please cover more issues like this in the game, I'm scared this is going to alienate more casual long-time players who used to be able to get into high-level content eventually given enough time.

[@ElysianOSRS]

Thanks so much

[@FireWizzrobe]

@@ElysianOSRS It could be good to possibly talk about Quest-locked content too. I understand it in some situations, but as the years go by and more content is locked behind quests with every couple updates, it can be a truly herculean task for new players to even break into mid-game. Especially those who work a 9-to-5 type of job, or have other responsibilities, the level barrier for doing some of these older quests can by itself be in the ballpark of 100s of hours when taking into account level requirements, and quest prerequisites.

[@randomsmile9064]

@@FireWizzrobeI personally hate the way quests are going now.. forcing raids into quests .. things like desert treasure 2.. as someone with learning issues an disabilities it puts a massive barrier up for me to keep my quest cape.. I use to love questing and use to really enjoy having my quest cape.. but ever since they put raids into quests I've never bothered to get it back.. I struggle immensely just trying to do zulrah.. too the point I can't even stick with zulrah constantly enough to learn how to kill it properly.. I have no issues at all with raids .. or other high level things - like inferno .. if they are optional content.. but when they become requirements for quests, or for diaries ... that just hurts .. it makes them inaccessible for some of us. I've been playing runescape since 2007 or something on and off .. im not a hardcore player by any means .. im very casual .. I would love to see the game more accessible to people and more casual and enjoyable.. but it seems jagex are more interested in the hardcore community that give there lives and souls to this game lol ..

[@alabasterleech]

I discovered your channel just the other week through your Fight Caves guide and it's great to see you back. As one of the mid level players you're talking about, it's heartening to hear high level players speaking up for us. Glad to see you back and I hope things IRL start to improve for you.

[@ElysianOSRS]

Thanks so much

[@Qtpyee]

Great to see you back 🎉

[@jordanslachta5980]

Love the vids, and loveee the supernatural references lol

[@ElysianOSRS]

It was a struggle to get it to work the file type get breaking my renders, but I had to get it in there!

[@billy2sweets]

I did think the occult needed a nerf, but to seperate the damge to more obtainable things. LIke boots, the prayers (which they did), maybe sheilds and rings, and not armour sets but its not terrible. I know you mentioned how the occult nerf messed up your mage set up and now people have to bring full mage armour, but isnt that the point of mage armour? The occult was more powerful and useful than entire armour sets. You also talk about how the game is "single player" which in my ironman mind goes to ironman mode. An example of where I saw you talk as if everyone is an ironman is the occult. The grind to get 93 slayer and how long and arduous of a journey it is. You made it seem like anyone with 70 magic and 600k cant instantly buy one on the G.E. and use it. You mentioned about how bad the nerf was for the blowpipe and just made it more expensive/bad for med levels to use, but also how it is still best/second best in slot basically everywhere. You mention why dont they buff Inquisitors , but Jagex annouced last week they are doing just that. I get the point you are trying to make is that jagex is forgetting about med levels, but I dont see it. Jagex just released Valamore with a bunch of med teir armour sets and new weapons, as well as a bunch of content (besides the collossuem) that was made for med levels. Also the combat rework that is coming helps make dead med teir weapons become more useful; instead of just using a Tbow or blowpipe for everything. Ballistas, short bows, and darts are going to finally have more uses. Using Water spells on a fire giant or an earth spell on a waterfiend is just logical and will be more useful for lower levels that dont have to grind to the higher level fire spells because tradionally those do the most damage everywhere. Med teir melee crush, stab, and slash weapons will be used more. No longer will it be a race to 70 attack and just whip everything for the rest of your runescape career. Jagex is introducing bosses like Scurrious to get med levels more into pvm'ing and teach them combat mechanics. I feel like Jagex is making more content for the average med level player, not hurting them.

[@ElysianOSRS]

I think that in theory, the idea of if you're doing mage, wear mage gear makes sense, but the problem is that for 25 years jagex hasn't balanced or built around that concept, or similarly with items like Void, or wearing any kind of split set. At content like barrows or Dagganoth kings or Bursting etc, where the enemy you're facing has no magic defence you've been able to bring mostly range/melee gear, and the higher level players would do 8 way switches to all 3 sets, but now mid level players are having to bring full 8 ways to this content just to do the same damage they have been able to do for 10-15 years. Again, i think the main issue is max players with shadows were already going to wear 100% mage gear anyway, and the lower level players who don't have the shadow to stack all the bonuses with are now forced into wearing gear, simply to get the same benefits anyway. It just seems overly punishing to mid levels and doesn't effect maxed bank accounts at all.

[@dakotap1488]

Why would it affect a max bank anyway, they already did the grind to max why punish them more?

[@soloplayzz3553]

This video completely ignore the fact that jagex are introducing a lot more mid game items to cover the gap. so whilst the grind to get to end game items is longer, there's a lot more options and variety in the things that you do to get there. and whilst its not perfect i think this is a lot better than getting a blowpipe and then just using the blowpipe for literally every interaction in the game. The difference between before and now, is that if you got a blowpipe, you had little reason to aim for any better weapon. Or just grind to the point where you can buy the better weapon. Now even though technically you could just grind for end game weapon still whilst sitting on the same weapon. It seems (to me at least) to be more beneficial to incrementally upgrade your weapon. so whilst the journeys longer it is more engaging with the gear loadouts. As a mid game player (ironman) i was using the dragon scimitar most places with my next weapon to be the abyssal whip. But you don't get the whip till you are 85 slayer or on a main you can just buy it but even then the stat requirements means using the scimmy at least till you're 75 attack. now there's the zombie axe which is slightly worse than the whip but bridges the gap. and for me even at 83 slayer it was worth getting as i was getting bored of the grind to the whip. even now I'm 85 slayer I'm dry for the whip. but that doesn't matter as much because there's smaller increments in the amount it matters. This allows for the new content that jagex puts out going forward to matter more. why am i going to go for new x ranged item when i just need to grind/buy a blowpipe and use that for the rest of the game. I think these changes pay alot more respect to the future of the game than just "better to let rich players be richer and poor players poorer" and from what I've seen i think jagex are looking more at having a casual upwards trajectory rather than hit x level get x item instant boost.

[@Patkilla7558]

Did you actually pay attention to the video? You know blowpipe is still BIS at most monsters, despite the nerf, right? It just costs a ton more for someone to use because now they need to use higher tier darts in order to get that benefit. All of the "mid tier" content they have released so far is not helping to bridge the gap at all, unless you're talking SOTE and the Bow of Faerdhinen.

[@Patkilla7558]

Besides, no one in their right mind wants to spend thousands and thousands of hours for these grinds, unless you're a content creator, or a masochist.

[@ValiantNomad]

​@@Patkilla7558it's OSRS. That's kinda the entire game. Grinding for hundreds of hours to get upgrades or XP.

[@ThePrototypexx]

@@Patkilla7558maybe a hot take but if you can’t grind as much as somebody who can grind, then you don’t deserve the same reward. I appreciate that you might not want to grind for hours to make gp to buy the weapon or grind for the weapon to drop but surely have some self awareness. “If I play 3 hours a day, logically I should progress slower than somebody who plays 6 hours a day”

[@moop3788]

​@Patkilla7558 isn't this just proving jagex right for nerfing? If something is still bis in a lot of places after a nerf, it needed a nerf.

[@Thalene-nj4nt]

1:39 song "the only thing they fear is you" from doom soundtrack, amazing bro epic

[@ChillLee24]

Very informative thanks for the video

[@ElysianOSRS]

So nice of you

[@Austinpowas]

I was having troubles with killing seren on my Uim until I got 92 for the highest blood spell, and now I was having trouble with whisperer, so I grinded occult, hope that I'll be able to clutch the kill post nerf. Gl!

[@KINGjackJACKjack]

You absolutely hit the nail on the head with this one mate, great video and thank you for bringing light to this issue, everytime i see someone make a reddit post on the subject it seems to get mass downvoted.

[@ElysianOSRS]

Thank you so much

[@wwerdo4]

Supernatural clip used for the intro? Legend status

[@fruitcrepes4875]

I really think its worth mentioning, since Nex was release the goal post for "end game" has gone up a lot. I remember at one point where a 3b bank was max gear + tbow & scythe. If we look at that now 3b bank isn't enough for just tbow and shadow. The goal post has shifted very far for all players. Once end game players are basically "mid game" (in terms of literal mid point of gear) if their bank hasn't expanded upwards of 6b+.

[@ThePrototypexx]

The price for max gear has gone up but do you know what else has…the variety of content available to make gp. It’s objectively easier to get say a 3b bank today, than it was in say 2018/2019.

[@shiroo8571]

Great video. I completely agree. Literally nerfing the mid level player and forcing us to buy more gear with prices skyrocketing because of the announced changes in order to do the same damage we did with only the occult before.

[@BlaBla-jl6ji]

for many high level players the main fun of the game is to improve your skills and compete in speedruns or you do collection logging. Therefore poor players seem have a disadvantage. But leveling stats and obtaining gear for upgrades is my fun. The more steps between gear progression and clogging the better.

[@PivotBanq]

Stumbled upon this video and couldn’t agree more, seems jagex only appeases content creators, bots, and 6b bank players these days

[@ElysianOSRS]

It surprises me other higher level players aren't speaking out about it, I feel like its a huge issue for the future of the game.

[@vondrz1391]

This is a "get good" comment. Do the content to get the big drops

[@steadystackin7250]

Interestingly, high level players feel as though they are neglected. I feel like jagex does a good job at trying to make updates/ content for players at all levels.

[@yy0]

i love your videos!

[@ElysianOSRS]

Thank you so much!

[@TheTeeters]

Well put together. Nuff said.

[@ElysianOSRS]

bloody legend you are, thanks so much! I am glad you enjoyed :)

[@Lowbottomsteez]

Yes, finally one of these youtubers/streamers gets it. And he's part of the rich crowd... Someone reddit this

[@ElysianOSRS]

I mean hey, if you make the post I would really appreciate it, if more people see content like this I can hopefully make more content that people like to see and dedicate the time to it.

[@beezebull]

Can you link that video of josh hayes i have tried to find it but cant :/

[@BlaBla-jl6ji]

I am pretty sure the blowpipe would be bis almost everywhere without the rebalance and the full effect of the quiver.

[@otakurex6186]

U got a follower outta me for this

[@noneofyourbusiness7025]

You've done well here articulating exactly my issue. I've played this game on and off casually since 2016, I'm 112 combat and 1915 total now, but every time I start approaching end game content the rug get's pulled from under me. Toxic Blow pipe? nerfed. Fang, Nerfed 3 days after I finally buy it. Occult? Will be nerfed long before I'm able to finish training magic at monkeys. I'm just focusing on ways to make money with skilling because it seems like my only option, it feels like they keep shifting the goalposts and it's really starting to put me off the game.

[@BwanJee]

Started my Ironman in 2018, and man, it’s just been an uphill battle. Good points, even though I’m enjoying the diversity of some of these updates.

[@BlaBla-jl6ji]

I understand that 9 way switches is not fun for speedrunners and there should be more fun ways to increase difficulty. But I don't think mid level players would be sad to bring their ahrims top they just optained while going for a tank body. I also like that there are 4 different ways to optain your mid/early game mage gear.

[@drewinglis]

He's back, baby!

[@sicklynerd]

You definitely know what you are talking about. I am glad I am not the only somewhat wealthy player that cares about where we ALL came from and the people that are in that lower stage. These proposals are extremely de-motivating for new players..

[@Roguest283]

Thanks alot for shining light on this. As a player with a 600m bank value I lost nearly all motivation to keep going when I see that my next gear upgrade requires me to earn up to 20% of my total bank value in raw gp. These rebalance proposals make that even more work and Nerf my current setup even more.

[@ElysianOSRS]

I am very surprised more higher level players aren't speaking up

[@Roel93]

I agree with your philosophy. I don't mind that I will never be able to afford the Scythe/Shadow/Tbow/ZCB/Torva/Ancestral/Masouri since I'm not willing to buy my GP, but I think the gap between the affordable second bis and the bis should be smaller, not bigger. Maybe if I get real good at the game and grind for a year or 2 I might get to bis but I'm not going to bother if I get nerfed. OSRS is already extremely difficult content so this just makes me feel like quitting again and sticking to the League every year where I can accomplish and learn something within a reasonable time span. Man I miss the League so much.

[@TacettheTerror]

Personally disagree on Scythe's cost being a bad thing. Personally feel like all mega rares are way too cheap to use relative to their power, particularly the Twisted Bow that costs as little as 0.2 Amethyst Arrows per attack to get most of its damage value. The whole point of the Scythe was to sink blood runes. Then high level players complained about the cost and for 7 years straight they made blood runes easier to obtain. In that 7 year time span they added blood essence essentially doubling production, 2 diary boosts, a 2nd blood alter for people who wanted their blood runes even quicker, an armor set for 50% more runes, more boss loot tables including blood runes, and an essence that can craft bloods quicker than shop buying. They added so many buffs to their accumulation rate that the price of blood runes got BELOW the cost they could be sold to shops, reaching under 200 gp at one point. After all of this they then made the scythe cost even less blood runes to use now having both a high supply of the resource and a lower cost of usage. The problem is end game players want power with no upkeep cost or skilling required. It is why something like a +20 extra range +2 extra range strength end game range cape that consumes 0 charges when overcharged is added at the same time mid game gets 3 armor sets that cost 2.25M - 4.5M per instance that it needs to be repaired and requires a special unique arrow to even function. I would even clump things like the BowFa into the camp of end game gear having way too low of an upkeep cost. It turned range from an ammo consuming skill into a rush BowFa then skip straight to T Bow skill. The closest range weapon to essentially 0 cost infinite ammo in early and mid game is a Bone Crossbow. Almost all ammo that isn't Amethyst or Dragon is near obsolete as the path is simply just SotE requires, then BowFa, then T Bow.

[@maxsam99]

Nice to hear a point of view that isn’t just sided to people who can sink 19hrs a day into this game

[@WhoisGhetto]

welcome back king

[@ElysianOSRS]

Thanks man appreciate you

[@gagemcmahon9485]

Everything you said was factual and should be taken note of. Great vid

[@kyleemery3329]

i just played through Halo CE on heroic, the pistole did not one hit hunters. maybe because im on p.c.?

[@SOUL_ERODER]

Great video and i have been saying that this is the precise problem killing one of my favorite games of all time. I have over 2000 hours logged on my account and got 99 runecrafting. Then they added guardians of the rift, so it's kind of bittersweet because i just achieved this goal ive had for years, but now if i go grind out raiments i might be able to achieve that SWEET SWEET 1-2 m,/hr, a pittance compared to what maxed players can drop on a good raiding day. At the end of the day its hard for me to quantify raids and high level pvm content as gp per hour because the items that are generating that profit are 2-5x my entire bank value of 300M. Its crazy to me that some will read this comment and think 300 million gp is somehow still poor and it is! Wouldn't be so bad if every method to level anything past 75 didn't cost obscene amounts of GP, everything just makes it so hard to walk away and grow your bank past a certain point

[@ElysianOSRS]

I agree and I think you've touched on something there as well the rewards for skilling are far lower than PVMing so it almost feels like "a waste" getting 99 runecrafting when you could've been grinding TOA for the same time and gotten way more money.

[@NotPhilShiftly]

Well thought out video. Like always, you put out quality content. However, I disagree with many of the points that you make. I feel like the rebalancing was justified. Im either deep in the mid game or just coming out of it, and wouldn’t say I have any best in slot weapons, certainly not the end game raid weapons. But if I was told I could get a blowpipe from zulrah or a twisted bow from raids and still be in a good place, why would I try to do raids. And even though I do a lot of things solo, I wouldn’t call OSRS a solo game. It is in heart a MMO. I bought an occult a long time ago but I don’t think it should be as strong as it was. That was a lot of strength on an item that is easy to get once you have the slayer level. At least with the zenytes, you have to get the required levels, do an important quest, and earn the drop from a monster that switches attacks and prayers. As for the occult, you hit it with mage and cheese redemption. But this is just my opinion and you are entitled to yours. Still love the videos and is looking forward to the next one.

[@ElysianOSRS]

I think you raise a lot of fair points, I guess my issues boil down to, if the occult is OP then why don't they address the strength of something like the shadow, and only slow down mid player progression. It just seemed like an odd argument from jagex to say that something was too good based purely on its GP value. Rather than its actual obtain ability as an item in world itself. Especially given that magic for mid level players is rarely used

[@22035]

Need better low and mid game content, especially bosses. Scurrius was a really good idea more of that would be epic!

[@scrappyclimber]

Most of the high level community hate these changes too. Why is this unpolled???

[@frostieisme]

Occult doesn't need a nerf in my personal opinion. Also voidwaker becomes useless in the spec weapon meta post nerf

[@ElysianOSRS]

I think nerfing it really upsets the balance of mage combat

[@tadosmil]

I guess for iron moslty this would be a overall nerf same for the "mid level" player, but we gotta also consider if u have ahrims wasnt that good and needed a buff, although I do think its a bit to much to be at that much dmg from the occult. I would agree it will make the mid game a bit more costy because it will make Augury less available and prayer pots would be needed to use it, at least for the people that already had it. as for the people that didnt had it will become probable as costy as rigour which its not a good thing for the "mid game" . although, I before this changes ahrims was p decent to have I think now ahrims will be in a much better position, I would agree that the change should've been less significant to the amulet maybe to the point of having that and ahrims would equal the same % dmg, and yes would mean that having a full switch would be optimal still as u saying on the video, although they should've change the necklace in a less harsh manner also I think the reason they didnt nerfed the bracelet was because u need also crafting and magic leveled which in theory makes it more difficult to obtain, since it takes multiple skills to lvl to get it, while the occult u just need to level slayer, at least I think thats the logic behind wanting to nerf the occult rather than the bracelet. I feel if the change wasnt that harsh would've been fine, but the change was a bit to harsh

[@brendanalkevicius3177]

Mid level irons dont have occults. They get a 5-7% magic damage buff from this due to ahrims and mystic might or void mage and mystic might.

[@BlaBla-jl6ji]

Sorry to spam your comments, but I don't think runescape is build to be able do do every content immediately. To make the game fun for years there need to be steps between content. Some kind of bossing ladder that is not just based on skill, but also current gear.

[@ValiantNomad]

1. This isn't WoW and it's not fair to compare it to WoW. 2. The nerf to mid game players is not that large considering it's only with a shadow that you truly feel the reducded dps. 1 less max hit with a trident or a barrage is not that much different than it is now effectively. Accuracy all stays the same so it's fine. And this adds use to things like MTA to get an actual upgrade if you choose to grind through it as a mid level. You can get gp from it as a main or an upgrade as a mid level iron before virtus or ancestral. Personally I don't see the issue and I don't even have max gear or augury. But this makes me wants to actually grind augury out because it'll finally feel worth getting. Ontop of ancestral being even better than it already is.

[@ValiantNomad]

Oh and CG also gets a slight buff due to the augury buff too.

[@rsgeek4503]

gatekeeping cas behind max gear was stupid from the get go anyways, cas should be display of skill not wealth, i mean it's fine to some extent and for higher tiers but still, you can basically beat the game in budget setup but not get far with cas

[@ElysianOSRS]

I think this one stings a lot, CAS are already very RNG based a lot of the time, so making the "high roll" chance much lower in worse gear just feels terrible

[@yellowredblue]

It's almost like it's designed to hook people with nostalgia and the sunk-cost fallacy, then offer greener grass after every corner. But then when you get there, it's just more low reward for high effort! Hundreds of hours played for almost no noticeable gain. And I love the game too, so it's hard to quit. It's exactly a microcosm of real life: could be so great, but it's intentionally rigged to be a losing battle. They did a great job with Varlamore and Hunter, and there's nothing more nostalgic and warm than this game's interface. I think the community and the Jmods love the game and take it seriously. But there's just something about this game that hasn't been sitting right with me lately, and I can't figure out exactly what it is. Anyone else been feeling a similar way?

[@firebender9010]

Welcome back man. You and Gnomonkey agreeing that something is bad for very different reasons is very telling. At the very least they should revert this magic rebalance.

[@ElysianOSRS]

I think take it back to the drawing board maybe, I feel like giving % increase to ahrims and eternals is a good concept, but maybe don't nuke the Occult in the process

[@firebender9010]

It'd be real nice if we kept the Occult a little bit more than they're proposing. Magic does seem to be the least impactful style outside of Shadow. So why not buff it a bit in the process? That sounds reasonable to me.

[@imperfectjoe9202]

Yeah a lot of that I agree with they hate mid game players

[@alap2592]

Welcome back man, love your videos and this one as well. Just want to say the reason Jagex seem to feel empowered in nerfing the Fang and the Blowpipe is because of the hordish Redditor hivemind that can't handle the fact that a relatively common but skill locked item shouldn't be overpowered since its "bad game design" and "exploits mechanics". At the same time they don't want the obsolescence of certain (re: not all) nostalgic items. Items like the Fang, Blowpipe, even the Occult necklace, at the very least if not for anything else, originally brought a certain level of 'democratization' in the game insofar it made people's journeys to endgame PvM, Slayer, Maxxing affordable and/or tolerable. Nothing against IMs or High end players, but it's their zeitgeist that rules the waves as of now. Its like they can't give mid-game, hell even late game players, a single bone for the sake of some sense of faux game authenticity.

[@measdf101]

Its just annoying when I save up for weeks/months to get that nice new weapon just to get it nerfed as soon as it gets into my hands. Still gonna play and have fun either way tho

[@randomsmile9064]

Honestly, I've felt like for a while now. Jagex seem to care more about the players that give there lives and soul to the game.. not so much about the casual players and people that dont have a lot of time to grind the game.. learn the mechanics and all this stuff.. I remember seeing a short video on the " average " runescape account.. not even base 70s in combat stats .. It seems like alot of the community especially higher level / content creators are very out of touch with what the " average " player actually is.. Would be really interesting too see actual data from jagex about what the average players stats / bank is like, what quests / diaries they have completed, how many of them have ever done bosses or how many of them ever make it to raids.. It would be really interesting to see how many people even have things like barrows gloves.. but knowing jagex we will probably never know.. would love to see how many hours the average player also plays a week.. compared to the higher level community .. especially given the average age of runescape players in apparently in the 30s or something.. like average players are adults .. they would have jobs / families .. no way the average player can be sinking mad hours into the game.. Would be so interesting to see the actual data from jagex..

[@WilliamMcAdams]

Aight so, I have trouble formulating my thoughts into coherent, succinct, points online.. but here we go. 1.) "End Game" players and Max players have put 1000's of hours into the game and 100's of dollars in Membership fees. 2.) This is by design. Old School RuneScape is by far one of the biggest time sink MMO's to exist. The design doesn't respect 99% of peoples time. Skills with XP rates like Mining, Agility, and Runecrafting prove this point. 3.) Those who have invested the time and money want to feel "accomplished" for having done so. If they don't, they're likely to quit and ward others away. If people with 1000+ hours of playtime says "nah, its not worth it", you're a lot more likely to trust their experience, and not invest the time. 4.) Jagex continues to back themselves into a corner by barely adjusting abysmal XP rates, and making QOL fixes too few, too slow. They don't want to disenfranchise players who "earned" their 99's the "hard way". But every day that passes that they don't fix the bad parts of the game, the playerbase that will be disenfranchised grows bigger. They would have been best off adjusting the "bad parts" in 2018, or somewhere in that timeframe. 5.) We're at a point where part 3 and part 4 are now in direct conflict. If they make actually good changes for low-mid players, the high-max players may decide to dip -- feeling like their "accomplishments" have been stolen. So, sadly, its likely this trend will continue. The high-max player community may be small -- but it grows weekly. If you aren't an "efficiency" player, it's likely you'll stay mid game for years, while the high-max community gets bigger and more vocal. The only, viable, solution to this is enough of the high-max players vocalizing their consent for the low-mid players to recieve decent QOL improvements. It's unlikely Jagex takes the risk and dramatically improves the mid game, without the high-max communities consent. I mean, consider this: it takes ~10-20 hours to get 50-70 in some Skills, and then ~80-100 hours to 99. That's, solely, because you reach your "final training method" somewhere around the 50-70 mark, and have to slog through hours of diminishing XP returns.

[@slayer100141]

I would love for them to release stats for a lot of things. To prove to a bunch of people how wrong they are. For instance one of biggest things always brought up is that the Quest Cape is Mid-Game...... Like how out of touch are people, The Quest cape might have been Mid-game at the release of OSRS, but now there are multiple Master and Grandmaster quests that have pretty difficult boss fights, not something a genuine casual will be able to knock out pretty quickly. How about the actual % of players that have completed any raids, the % of players that have done Inferno, or hell the old classic that people say is sooo easy the amount of players that have actually completed the fight caves. Those or all combat related , but then there is stuff for skilling like the Hallowed Sepulchre , how many people have done each floor, and how many times, who actually touches things like Blast Mine/Volcanic Mine. Some random stuff like Average length of time each account is logged in during a session and day, % of active accounts that are an Ironman, which can then be further divided by the variants. Average Total level and combat level of the all the active accounts, can be separated based on Mains/Ironman as well. All these things and potentially more I think would really help shed some light on stuff like what actually is Mid-level/Mid-game. And honestly I don't think it would be that hard for them to collect this data if they don't have it already, since for the first couple weeks of Trailblazer league the released those stat videos.

[@jekrs]

I'm *really* hoping they're nerfing some of these "easier" to obtain weapons so that the gap can be more easily filled in with stepping stones up to those epic weapons like a tbow. Right now, it's really hard to go from a blowpipe to the next step up (i.e. a bowfa) so having something (or preferably multiple somethings) in between that is obtainable, and more importantly viable in the eyes of the player, makes a lot of sense. You have a great point about the necklaces though, that doesn't make a ton of sense in the context you gave.

[@therenzix]

I think after the changes its fine. Mage book+mystic might+ ahrims is easier to obtain as a ironman then occult and will add up to the +6 thats missing from the occult effectively buffing ironman magic. I do think in general low level magic needs a buff and this doesnt address it but hopefully the elemental types do. Could you argue that ancestral got a more substantial buff? Maybe but being able to get +6% way earlier in accounts lifespan is huge and mains can buy augury and eternal boots to get more damage before having to shill out hundreds of mil for ancestral. Before this there was no good upgrade path for magic. At least now you can get secondary items like rings and shields that aren't like 50 mil

[@therenzix]

This video made WAY more sense before the changes they made

[@tooks9281]

Supernatural ❤😄

[@RenshoYT]

We 100% are going to see another 10% mage damage neck get added back into the game, it's just going to be ultra endgame gear and therefore cost in line with something like an Ultor Ring. All this change does is continue to move the goalpost and further spread the GP gap between midgame and max gear.

[@ElysianOSRS]

That is going to be a tilter if/when that happens

[@killemkillua]

I’m rwt to avoid funding Jagex directly. Cashing in 20$ for 100m helps bridge the gap saving me 20h of game time for a faction of that (: . Depending on how much at that rate it’s gonna cost me to catch up might make me quit all together for valorant again.

[@jozefkriner5600]

Ow no we play a grindy game but we dont wanna grind thjngs out... most people's probelm is they think they have to have the best gear in the game to do something. Which is not the case most of the time it is strictly a skill issue. Good gear doesn't make you a good player.

[@ElysianOSRS]

That's not the point I was making in this video

[@jozefkriner5600]

@ElysianOSRS I mean it was exactly what you were saying. The blow pipe definitely needed to be nerfed and complaining about the price to use good darts is insane. And making 100m for a bowfa which is reasonably good at alot of bosses. thats just people being lazy and complaining again about a know to be grindy game being grindy.

[@pmdcollective]

Yeah, I've already given up on bringing friends to this.

[@benjaminhould627]

Underrated pov.

[@ElysianOSRS]

Feel free to share it 😁

[@CaligosaNex]

You focus too much on the BIS and having the best of the best for every possible location. The most fun thing about OSRS is the progression itself. Jagex is doing a really good job at tweaking the progression of items in such a way that every upgrade brings you joy and gets you excited for the next grind, nut just the best of the best items for mains. Aside from ironmen, there are so many different snowflake accounts that exploit this incremental upgrade to the extremes. That is the how and why most people play this game and not merely to make the most amount of money as efficiently as possible to (make more money they don't really need anymore?). High level PvM is not the only thing fun about this game... heck, look at the skiller communities or even the PvP community. Jagex has to keep all these communities in mind and imho they are doing a good job with that.

[@SockLove]

Choice? In my video game?

[@raxo00swing]

truth

[@Rahshogen]

Dont put your twisted bow in the ge they're gonna melt it down.

[@TheBitBros]

you are doing way more thinking than jagex ever did pushing these updates

[@simonloof3536]

The point is to make the reddit andys who still kills zulrah for coin in 2024, to make them want to step up to do raids. To progress and play the game, and strive for better item upgrades. To get an occult is not harder than to get an ancestral piece. I dont know wtf your talking about there. Fang was Brokenly good before. It needed a huge nerf. However, I do agree this occult nerf is uncalled for. What is the point? Just buff ancestral abit more, make the pieces really feel worth it. These magic changes have good aspects, but is mostly shit in general. It does hit hard for mid level players, hell even for lategame players. Its just the all BIS players that dont have to give a shit.

[@randomuser736]

Jagex stopped syncing tbows mod ash responded in a twitter post. Stating it was not necessary.

[@PolymorphicG]

Absolutely based

[@ElysianOSRS]

Based comment

[@jstephan03]

I started playing RS in 2002, the grind for anything decent then was hard. I got completionist on RS3 after the switch, but also started fresh on OSRS when the split happened. I quit playing altogether back in 2013, but have recently started back on the grind. This game is a grind, but there have also been amazing changes to make the game so much easier over what was available in 2002. The items I dreamt about back in the day, are throwaways these days. The problem with this new generation is that you want everything given to you. Work hard, play hard.

[@quintoneversull4219]

As a filthy casual I feel this absolutely. I hate that the “balancing” jagex has done. My blowpipe should have never been nerfed.

[@ElysianOSRS]

100% agree

[@Kyrothes]

The lack of eternal boots love baffles me. I bet they did it because they didn't want to raise the price of it. They'll never admit it though

[@rsgeek4503]

i hope jagex sees this vid, this is so well put together

[@ElysianOSRS]

Thanks so much, if you're keen feel free to share with them or others, if more people see it I can be sure to dedicate more time to videos like these as they take a long time to make

[@troy6254]

Tbf I've seen many complaints from wealthy people that don't want the change either.

[@ErvinandMFantasyFootball]

2:18 wtf jus happened.

[@Roel93]

BoFa 100m? I wish. Between all the crystals to charge, the armour and the BoFa you need 200m.

[@ElysianOSRS]

Yea that's a really good point, blowpipe and Tbow are good on their own, bowfa needs the whole set

[@FTWMFXD]

yeah i'm not a big fan of what they're doing to mage gear, I can barely afford dagon'hai and just got full bandos and a fang after over 200 hours of playing. I'm in college dog I don't have time to learn raids specially when i'm trash. I could barely get a fire cape at lvl 115 with 90 defense and 88 range. TBH I thought of real world trading for end game gear but i'm not paying 400$ for a tbow AND risking my account.

[@TheRiskyDingo]

They're tryna force players to buy bonds to afford the best gear. Filling their own coffers.

[@joaquinivangonzalez78]

As an ironman that has a long way ahead of me to get the occult, I respectfully disagree with your analysis. At the current state, the only magic damage buffs I can get is the 2% from the imbued god cape and a 5% from blue moon spear/ahrim staff for bursting. Tormented bracelet still requires quite a big magic and crafting grind before i can acces it. With this changes, I can aspire to get an extra +3% from ahrims, +2% from mages book, +2% from mystic might, +1% from infinity boots + 0,5% from seers ring which sums up to a big 8,5% extra magic damage than before. This also means that when i get my slayer up and get the nerfed torture, all in all, I am getting a +2,5% extra magic damage than before. So I think that saying that the changes are based only on money requisites isn't quite accurate. For mains I can't see the such a huge issue either. Now you have a 4% from the occult + 2 from mystic might for only 700k. And gaining 1% for investing roughly an extra 500k - 1m per new piece up to even a higher magic damage % boost than before. That doesn't sound too bad and gives a better sense of progression rather than paying for the occult and then being stuck until being able to afford mega rares.

[@MythrilZenith]

Several hundred hours into the game, all quests done, several Elite diaries finished, yet I still feel like I'm treated like a noob by the devs for not enjoying killing bosses for hundreds of hours to get a drop that's worth multiple times my total bank. That said, I'm able to do things with gear nobody else seems to think is viable because the difference between BiS and mid gear has always been fairly small. For melee. The magic and ranged progression of this game are incredibly weighted to the top end already, they don't need to widen that gap. The fun parts of the game aren't profitable and the profitable parts of the game aren't fun, and then content creators preach niche takes like "quests suck" and "Endgame is all that really matters" and make it sound like the majority of players think that way. Also hype Brood War reference.

[@ElysianOSRS]

Thanks so much, I am glad you liked it

[@evilkittens9]

You say that runescape is solved and it didnt take years like that other game to get solved but youre just dead wrong on that point, it took forever for players to even begin imagining dps calculators and stuff like that, it surely didnt happen over night lol. People didnt go from barely being able to flick 1 prayer to doing zuk with the snap of a finger, it tooka very long time with little things being found out here and there for it all to be put together and for runescape to become solved.

[@TheXnaut]

Hearing this makes me want to stop playing right now as a low level geared player trying desperately to even hit mid.

[@ElysianOSRS]

I don't want to sound to pessimistic I think that the game is still totally fine and the nerf isn't that bad, its more that, why are we nerfing at all when there is stronger more powerful stuff that is arguable better that we aren't touching.

[@stevencash1609]

hear me out, if you think Halo CE's magnum was op, try the plasma pistol. No joke.

[@ElysianOSRS]

both together was crazy!

[@juanmejorado7772]

I wonder what mid game players did to Jagex to deserve all this

[@ElysianOSRS]

I think certain high level players haven't spoken up for the newer/mid game players enough tbh

[@randomsmile9064]

we haven't given our souls and lives to jagex .. there for we are unworthy of enjoying / experiencing all the content the game has to offer, unless we find / pay some no life nerd to carry us through it all.. This game only rewards / cares about those that commit there life and souls to it xD

[@mezlo64]

This is probably the reason why i "quit". Got my blowpipe - get nerfed, got a fang - get nerfed. I know it's bad timing but still incredibly demotivating for me.

[@ElysianOSRS]

I think that's totally fair though, that's why I am so confused about why we are hitting mid level player stuff, if anything nerf the end game weapons or buff the mid game so the gap is smaller, no one likes to have their gear just be worse.

[@dylanwright9927]

Jagex doin too much fr…

[@user-ir3xs7ud6v]

First !

[@ElysianOSRS]

[@Matt93Wittman]

People that are poor have the mindset they need all BIS to do endgame content. I did nex and nightmare with scuffed gear, upgraded, and now I have all i need. Players need to stop being victims and do content that makes money instead of bankstanding and trolling reddit

[@ThePrototypexx]

Based af.

[@ThePrototypexx]

I’m sorry but if you disagree with the double slash accuracy roll on fang being removed, you do not care about balance. Fang was a jack of all trades that trivialised the consideration of buying other melee weapons. It was bad for the game. A game for everybody is a game for nobody. If you can’t grind for more expensive gear due to external factors such as “having a life”, then have some self awareness that if you can only play for 3 hours a day, then logically you should progress slower than somebody who invests more time into their account.

[@SockLove]

Aside the fact that you seem to ignore the multitude of weapons the game offers and purely focus on BiS, aswell as there only being BiS or BiS but not really, you also don't make a very compelling argument with the torture VS occult. One requires level 98 crafting and 93 magic to get, the other requires level 93 slayer. That is for irons. For main accounts, one costs 10M, the other costs anywhere around 500k to 800k depending on magic related updates. This is what jagex meant when it comes to obtainability. This entire video glosses over vertical progression/horizontal progression, ignores how players usually interact with the game, ignores the objective of the updates which is to give choices to how players aproach content, aswell as making outright wrong arguments (like the one i explained above). The beginning is also incredible confusing. I don't understand how the single player/multiplayer discussion even matters when it comes to the main arguments that mid level players are being set further behind (which they are not since again, jagex has been making more weapons and armours viable, aswell as adding more niche stuff, taking into consideration the multiple budgets people have since you know, people don't just have 3m or 1.5b to spend, they can have any range of gp). Honestly it seems to me you are so much tunnel focused on your way of playing the game that you ignored everything else.

[@faelarie4726]

Imagine complaining about a blowpipe nerf, when it's still BiS all over the place and competes with a 1.6bill item. It shouldn't be better than the twisted bow or the bowfa anywhere lmao. It cost less than 1/300th of the tbow. It should maybe be comparable, but it should legit be nerfed again, what a meme... This is coming from someone in the mid game, when I'm sitting here and just did a bowfa rebuild for my bank, I don't want to be trying to achieve end game gear eventually to only get there for the items to be worse. The whole game is the progression to the end, if the end is weaker or like 1.6b for a .05% damage increase no one's going to do it, it doesn't make sense. It's the same thing with the occult, a 600k item shouldn't be competing, or even better than 454billion worth of items. The whole point of the game is progression, you don't want to earn money to become weaker, or spend billions for no meaningful change at all.

[@faelarie4726]

Besides, the only thing the BiS gear does is speed up content, you don't need a tbow, a scyth, or a shadow to do anything in the game, you can do literally anything in this game with budget gear.

[@ElysianOSRS]

I feel like you missed a lot of the points I made in this video

[@juliankassab]

You failed to mention all the lower/mid level content jagex has been pumping out to help the gaps you’re talking about? How about zombie axe? Warped scepter? Hunters Crossbow? Any of the armour sets from perilous moons? They’re also adding magic damage bonus to Chaos robes and the whole infinity set. You’re not suppose to be able to jump in the game and get to solo Olm in a week.. you mentioned the gaps but none of the the stuff they filled those gaps in with? Awful take made for whiners..