Lessons in Magecraft 23 - Dead Apostle Ancestors Part 1

This series goes over the lore behind the magic system in Fate, Type Moon, and the Nasuverse at large. Our 23rd Lesson in Magecraft covers the 27 Dead Apostle Ancestors. There are enough of them to make this a two part video, so look forward to the rest next month.
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This video is fair use under U.S. copyright law because it is (1) transformative in nature, the video is a journalistic commentary on popular media (2) uses no more of the original work than necessary for the video's purpose, the claimed duration is an edited clip for rhetoric, and (3) does not compete with the original work and could have no negative affect on its market.
Intro stage created by: deviantart.com/xentetion
#VTuber

[@otakudaikun]

NOTICE This video was originally made prior to the Tsukihime Remake. It does not reflect any altered or additional lore presented in the remake.

[@aviliolagusa1956]

Hi dai can i ask who is the character in the thumbnail,and where did it come from?

[@otakudaikun]

@@aviliolagusa1956 Sion Tatari from Melty Blood.

[@minisnakali]

Will you make a video explaining the Tsukihime Remake info?

[@otakudaikun]

@@minisnakali I have a whole series of vids on that in my Type Moon Lore playlist.

[@minisnakali]

@@otakudaikun Thank you, I'm sorry for asking such a silly question I didn't realize it 😅 I love your videos you're absolutely amazing thank you for making all this wonderful content ❤

[@SavageMoth-ft9hc]

Who else expected Dai to just bust out a whiteboard like Arcueid did in the remake … Just me. Alright I’ll see myself out

[@otakudaikun]

Well this video was made before the remake lol.

[@thomaslin1189]

Imagine what Cath Palug/Fou-san could do to the human if he was not tamed by Merlin.

[@grotus5549]

Probably murder

[@thearoacebrit4515]

​@@grotus5549like some sort of primate, moat likely

[@elgatto3133]

Roa got bodied by Dantes in the fate timeline which is such a badass thing he was able to do

[@ollin-tonatiuh6418]

The virgin Marvel Dracula: couldn't beat Null even with an Adamanitium net, loses to an Avengers team that has the most pathetic version of Thor that's not Unworthy Thor. The CHAD Zelretch: Access to the multiverse and infinite mana, defeated a TYPE, is a true man of culture.

[@rogueascendant6611]

Nasu clearly made the tropes of his concept of 'vampires' a bit more powerful than compared to Marvel and DC. One - used power of time to regenerate to absurd levels. Two - powerful 'concepts' Three - boosted by the light of the Moon and Gaia's presence.

[@ollin-tonatiuh6418]

@@rogueascendant6611 You would be correct if Mandrakk wasn't a vampire, not even ArcheType Earth is a more overpowered vampire than a fucking Monitor that planned to suck the entirety of the Bleed. I swear Grant Morrison must have been smoking that pack when writing Final Crisis.

[@ollin-tonatiuh6418]

@saber 1616 DC Earth, Marvel Earth and Nasu-verse Earth operate on different rules. In both of those superhero worlds Earth is just a ball of rock with none of the "textures" Nasu added, regardless of their importance to the multiverse. Gaia in Marvel is an Elder God that would have absolutely no connection to Arcueid. But if she was then Arcueid's power would be Herald tier or if we REALLY strech it Atum/Ra/Demogorge tier, anything beyond that would just be silly. But realisticaly she would get clapped by Base Sentry and Immortal Hulk before she could tangle with Blue Marvel, let alone World Breaker Hulk or Doctor Strange or Doctor Doom or Scarlet Witch or Thanos or the Skyfathers. Gaia in DC is the soul of Earth and while that COULD put her on Spectre or New God tier, no way in hell is she getting even near Darkseid, let alone the guys above him.

[@rogueascendant6611]

@@ollin-tonatiuh6418 Earth in Marvel and DC are nothing but rocks. A planet same like others that easy to be destroyed. Earth in Nasuverse is just damn complicated and complex. It have so many layers from dimensional speaking, textures by textures, and so many rules and restrictions. A billion and million years ago, it doesn't have this structure yet as the planet still in infancy. But upon the appearance of humans that created gods and concepts. Well Earth became this complex. Destroying the planet in the present time is near impossible. The surface would be desolate from outside or inside attacks but the inside would remained unharmed and the dimensional layers beneath.

[@rogueascendant6611]

@@ollin-tonatiuh6418 Earth in Marvel and DC are nothing but rocks. A planet same like others that easy to be destroyed. Earth in Nasuverse is just damn complicated and complex. It have so many layers from dimensional speaking, textures by textures, and so many rules and restrictions. A billion and million years ago, it doesn't have this structure yet as the planet still in infancy. But upon the appearance of humans that created gods and concepts. Well Earth became this complex. Destroying the planet in the present time is near impossible. The surface would be desolate from outside or inside attacks but the inside would remained unharmed and the dimensional layers beneath.

[@axelnetzahualcoyotl5223]

It was a really interesting lesson,I didn't knew that there was a lot of information about dead apostle ancestors.

[@ride-playerbb2818]

The moment I see even one of them (including Zelretch) I will have to use the most powerful true magic, otherwise known as the secret Joestar technique Edit: I do wonder if Brunestud saved Merem out of kindness or if he just wanted to make him a follower

[@sauravsaha7465]

If he has anything in common with Archetype Earth, he probably did it on a whim.

[@weltmano6091]

Great job with the vid as always, looking forward to the next part

[@BrunofanofK]

This was perhaps the best lesson, great save from the curse chapter. Please don't forget to talk about Idea Blood though.

[@otakudaikun]

An update is required for the new stuff. Part 2 of this series is still based on the old lore.

[@NekoKat.]

I'm not sure I would really want to face any of them in battle but if combat was my only choice I'd be hoping that I wasn't facing El-Nahat. There aren't many ways to counter being erased on a whim. Looking forward to part two

[@3dark7]

Next is Roa...

[@unevenbonsai1715]

Dead apostle ancestors vs servants would be amazing

[@wrought-ironheroEMIYA]

The intro always gets me in the mood to watch these vids istg. Anyway Dead apostles used to be one of the most slept on aspects of the verse due to servants being the common factor

[@someoneelse4939]

Extremely interesting, as always. Can't wait for the next part!

[@ThatFateGuy69]

Awesome video as always Otakudaikun

[@NEXUSKNIGHT2]

*Looks at Fou/Cath* Dude Your that high in rank if you became a dead apostle ancestor? Fou:Fou!(Yes)

[@Tyracus]

If I recall correctly he’s called Primate Murder because he has the authority from Gaia to kill any creature that can be identified as belonging to that family. Before his FGO expansion I think he was referred to as the Beast of Gaia and was created in part because of what Humanity had done to the planet. So yeah, he’s gonna rank up there because most dead apostles have at least part of their origin tied to humanity so he gets a degree of class advantage even if he’s not a fully actualized type like Oort or Crimson Moon Brunstud. Makes me wonder what Arcueid could do with him if she called on her Archetype Earth powers.

[@NEXUSKNIGHT2]

@@Tyracus I knew that Fou and Primate Murder are the same being but to have that high of a rank is pretty surprising to me.

[@NEXUSKNIGHT2]

@saber 1616 Merlin did tame Primate Murder but that was before Merlin booted Fou out of the tower of Avalon and to "find something beautiful" which He found at Chaldea. Not sure if Arcuied or alttrouge gives him a bonecrushing hug honestly.

[@AstronScion]

Thank you for the video

[@shahdangalahad698]

Thank you for the Video of Dead Apostle Ancestors Enemies of Arcueid Brunestud, i looking forward to see the Next Video.

[@aminebachir3394]

I wonder if Fate Sionn is a dead apostle, I remember her saying something like "We bloodsucker types" in Yu Mei Ren's interlude, but there was no TATARI in the fate world so I wonder how 🤔

[@Tyracus]

While it’s true TATARI is not known to have fully actualized the forest that Rail Zepplin came into conflict with in the El-Melloi case files did sound similar. While it’s been years since I read the Melty Blood manga and still need to finish the anime it is possible that the experiments the entity that became TATARI was doing could have corrupted Sion’s family despite their failure in that reality.

[@otakudaikun]

She is, but it's not elaborated on at all.

[@Zeronigel332]

Having read the manga Fate Sion is Tatari but isn’t the dust of Osiris that she originally going to. Fate Sion was going to be till Melty blood Sion showed her that there are numerous possibilities that hasn’t been closed off. Arc as type earth literally went “cut that shit out before I kill you” so fate Sion didn’t have much of a choice.

[@stevepitt-ash4628]

Thank u dai I did not know the moon princess sister was the owner of fou great lesson can't wait for more

[@manydoorsedboy6579]

Rip Shirley. You didn’t deserve to go like that.

[@darkshado124]

*Insert Abridged Hellsing Alucard into Type/Moon Earth. It's a good idea! Honest!

[@wojciechwerner8787]

Thank you. One of fanfiction I read have DAA strongly involved in plot. Author have to makes things up to fill informations that don't canonically exist but having cannon background is really helpful. While topic is interesting as you said this list is very unofficial and actually that would be without numbers because we don't even have any official guidelines of evaluation. This is my main problem with nasuverse. Lots of big words but lots of holes and blank slates. We saw more exceptions than rules being followed. Things are pulled out of ass as stories are created. Tsukihime Remake and its change to DAA are for me final proof that lore was not pre established.

[@thirdplanet4471]

Not gonna lie dead apostle sounds like the name of a rock band

[@Ghostgaming-hs8jk]

Cath is one of the dead apostle (I look to my Cath plushie full of fear, I put him in my cabinet) I love him but now I'm scared

[@rogueascendant6611]

Don't worry. Cath Palug only became the monster it is once consumed the negative traits of humanity. Throw that furball in Avalon or made it understand love, affection, and caring. It would become nothing more than an adorable fluffiness.

[@Ghostgaming-hs8jk]

@@rogueascendant6611 (I take him back) Im sorry (Head pat)

[@nepspartan-7597]

The Type found in South America was made an honorary Apostle Ancestor after it tore apart its predecessor in seconds to the point of being unable to recover.

[@jonathanrobinson319]

I plan to host a GURPS campaign in the Nasuverse, you helped it greatly!

[@otakudaikun]

Gurps?

[@jonathanrobinson319]

@@otakudaikun GURPS Thaumatology: Ritual Path Magic

[@arthurmarshall6825]

@@otakudaikun If you don't know Dai, GURPS is a pen and paper rpg, like Dungeons & Dragons. As someone whom never played it, GURPS is known as the system you can play any setting, any genre in. Get the space book to play sci-fi space epics, get the fantasy book to play fantasy and you can mix and match books as you like. As for me, I'm planning on doing a Mage 2nd campaign inspired by the Nasuverse. Chronicles of Darkness, like GURPS is another pen and paper rpg system.

[@armandomendoza7371]

Let's go DAAs are finally here

[@thomasthecoolkid7228]

Okay, look. I know that's not official Altrouge art, but if she looks anything like that... DAMN, SHE CUTE!

[@nomingyu4026]

If anyone is interested, there's a rather intriguing fanfic that has been updating a lot recently that deals quite a bit with the dead apostle ancestors. The premise of this is an AU where a chance encounter with Sumire leads Shirou Emiya to become a dead apostle ancestor himself. There's a few things the author interpreted differently about this lore, but most of it tracks so far. The fic is called Tainted Steel by The Distorted Shadow. I'd highly recommend it!

[@yaasirsufyaan6321]

Yeah I read it but The Shirou of that fic is an idiot, with his constant bashing of kiritsugu and being influenced by everyone around him without checking the facts .He discarded his humanity as as a fuck you to kiritsugu .The thing I like about Shirou, is the ability to overcome whatever sets of problem he faces .This shirou is an idiot of the highest order is this fic.

[@qstar1237]

I was waiting for someone to mention this

[@rashan141]

@@yaasirsufyaan6321 Thank God, I'm not the only one who thought that. The fic is stupid because the premise relied on Shirou having a weird hate-boner for the man who _saved him._ Ya know? That guy he literally distorted himself into the impossible image of. Of an Ally of Justice. Honestly, that fic just outright pisses me off.

[@dihanmahbub8692]

I give you a better one.From Fake Dreams.Read it.It also about how shirou becomes half dead apostle.And this shirou is the best one I know so far

[@rashan141]

@@dihanmahbub8692 Already have, way ahead of you. He IS one of the best Shirous I've seen written, too.

[@Jay-nc8ic]

I recently got back into fate and started learning more of the nasu verse and I just watched the tsukihime anime but I want to play the VN but I don’t know where to find or get it

[@otakudaikun]

Erogedownloads should still have it.

[@Jay-nc8ic]

@@otakudaikun thanks man and keep up the good work

[@thirdplanet4471]

@@Jay-nc8ic A KZbin channel called Kein can help to some extent

[@soraadcaelum2428]

I can't wait for the video on the dda remake

[@otakudaikun]

Yes, but be aware part 2 is still old lore.

[@soraadcaelum2428]

@@otakudaikun I understand

[@adlamungalter8673]

Thats a very interesting thumbnail there bud.

[@otakudaikun]

It's very Elizabeth Bathory.

[@Medleypon]

I'm really enjoying these! I have to know what the music at 0:38 is!

[@otakudaikun]

It's all from the 2006 Fate Stay Night anime.

[@Medleypon]

@@otakudaikun Thanks! I just watched it too. Guess the song just went right over my head. Thanks again!

[@karlbenito9992]

Teach us more

[@zacharyrodriguez4348]

A bunch of wantabe vampires, do they also sunlight too?

[@Garmagic2yFhenrakh9]

So, unlike vampires in other franchises, the ones from Type-MOON don't necessarily rejuvinate? As in, you become a Dead Apostle in your 80s and you stay an 80-year-old-looking man for the rest of eternity?

[@otakudaikun]

I'm not sure. I don't think I've seen a DA get younger or older. They just stay the same.

[@nosferatu1765]

The Dark Six

[@otakudaikun]

Which of these guys would you least like to encounter in battle?

[@meinsternes4148]

As a third rated magus, I guess I'm pretty much finished if I went into battle with any of the dead apostles. But also as a magus I am fascinated by their powers and seek to find a way to replicate them through magecraft

[@hydrasfang]

Having to encounter any of them considering I'd be dead or worse if I somehow came into contact with them. Since I'd be easily be outclassed in every aspect. I mean unless it was one of the Dead Apostles that tolerated human that and my blood probably being tainted by the amount of salt, garlic, and potatoes that I regularly consume. I'd say my blood is saltier than Mc Donald's fries.

[@Hecate6969]

I've never hated vampires but the idea of even being near one would definitely put me on edge unless their one of the few nice ones, let alone going into battle with them. Btw I bet Rita Rosa and Camilla from fgo would get along REALLY well given their shared hobby.😅

[@theswappyguy2809]

Personally I think I could simply take them because I am built different.

[@thomasthecoolkid7228]

Literally any of them! I meet any one of them and I am _screwed!_ I'd just hope that whichever I end up encountering ends up being on my side of the fight, because if not, I'm getting outta there.

[@lewhanwen4302]

Where'd the CG for the thumbnail and closing statements about the remaining Ancestors come from? The Tsukihime remake? Is that Noel in it?

[@ozy7777]

That's from melty blood I'm pretty sure, don't know which melty

[@lewhanwen4302]

@@ozy7777 Definitely Lumina then, that character doesn't look like anyone but Noel and she does become a Dead Apostle (but not an Ancestor) in Ciel's route.

[@lewhanwen4302]

@MGS-Fan here Ohhhhh... Very modern looking, I must admit.

[@otakudaikun]

Sion Tatari from Melty Blood, official art.

[@dandragonmc]

How come you didn't do a video on incantations, is it because it's hard to find information about it?

[@otakudaikun]

I'd like to but I don't know why they say what they do.

[@dandragonmc]

@@otakudaikun i could sent some info and reference i gather about incantations if you like

[@chrisharte4280]

*NEVERMORE* … Is this the only poem reference in the Fate Series/Type Moon universe?

[@otakudaikun]

Not sure. With characters like Nursery Rhyme you'd think so.

[@chrisharte4280]

@@otakudaikun That is true.

[@96ace96]

I find it so strange that Brunestud is not actually the number 1 DAA. Either him or ORT. I mean, they are Ultimate Ones are they not? As far as I understand the power system in Type Moon the only beings that can truly match them 1 to 1 is True Magicians or Outer Gods. How could The Dark Six or Primate Murder be stronger than any of those other 3? Zelretch I can kind of understand given that he was weakened by his fight against Brunestud, but the other two are literally the strongest beings of their planets. Since Primate Murder come directly from Earth and are also NOT considered a TYPE then... is Earth just that much more powerful than the Moon and Mercury? I mean, I guess it's a much larger planet, so that kind of sort of makes sense. And since we know nothing about The Dark Six it's kind of hard to argue anything for or against her, and this entire list is informal to begin with so... It seems I talked myself into accepting the power rankings. Wait... who the hell came up with this list anyways? And are the numbers actual power rankings, and if so how does that actually work? Can people switch places? Who the hell actually has enough information about these extremely powerful and ludicrously dangerous people to RANK them!? And even if they ranked themselves, how did they agree? I find this list to be a very strange thing.

[@endymion6165]

Could be the numbers mean nothing at all but just an indicator on how many they are. They could have only cared about being called a "dead apostle", what number they are could literally mean nothing for them.

[@rogueascendant6611]

@96ace96 the power rankings are not based who's the strongest. But a status on the material level of a threat level this beings are to humanity. Clearly you did not actually read the info given. The lowest number like 1-2-3 are those with more potential threat to humanity. And the highest like those from 20-27 are the lowest danger rate to humanity.

[@asaasasa1116]

Fun fact : remake Ciel killed 5 27DAA (Vlov,Roa,Chrome Clay,Forest,Be ze) Are they powerful group anyway?

[@otakudaikun]

Ciel's strong af tho.

[@acnologia1020]

Wait I already watched this video long ago now it's just recently posted

[@otakudaikun]

Early Access, or you found a playlist that wasn't supposed to have it.

[@KigaiOkasu]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t Borzack a Dead Apostle Ancestor, or was he just a prominent Dead Apostle?

[@otakudaikun]

Apparently his bees are dead apostles, but not him.

[@KigaiOkasu]

@@otakudaikun Wait, seriously? How does that work? And if someone was going to make Dead Apostles out of animals, why didn't they try actual bats?

[@otakudaikun]

@@KigaiOkasu Bee fetish?

[@roninboi1869]

Thanks for your efforts ! Question : will you make a video explaining saber-wars II eventually ? i hope so bcoz i had to skip the story unfortunately.

[@otakudaikun]

Watch my space Ishtar lore. It's pretty thorough.

[@roninboi1869]

@@otakudaikun oh i see thanks , haven't seen that one yet i was saving it for a specific time where i binge character lore vids(month of ramadan) and i save your lessons in magecraft for another specific time that i binge them ,same for singularity/lostbelt/event story ect... That may seem weird lol but trust me i love fate lore plus: your vids helped me a ton when i was using them for escaping some pretty bad times in my life so thanks a bunch, anyways sorry for random rant and my English sentences skills lol

[@WildArtistsl]

Enhance is edgy Dante change my mind

[@jaieregilmore971]

I still wondering what Brunstud actually looks like obviously he not an actual moon.

[@supermegaultahypercoolguy4327]

for a second i read this as ''lessons in minecraft'' and i was very confused.

[@otakudaikun]

So glad it's not that lol

[@---rm8do]

#5 O_O

[@mikepachy4100]

VLAD is vampire right?

[@otakudaikun]

Yes and no. People made legends about him being a vampire which weren't true, so as a servant he can turn into one, which he's not happy about. He's not the same type of vampire as a dead apostle tho.

[@xx_toasterreturns_xx1166]

What about Wallachia?

[@otakudaikun]

There's a part 2 going public in November.

[@Ohimeshinso]

So... I noticed how you displayed the Dark Six as a woman... So, that made a question pop into my head: Is Altrouge the child of Crimson Moon and Dark Six? Since, apparantly pureblooded True Ancestors (besides Arcueid) are all male, it would make sense for Brunestud to turn a woman into a Dead Apostle in order to have an heir(read: spare body). And he is considered the First of the True Ancestors soo... It seems to fit. Now, I bet you this entire planet we don't get that confirmed or denied until we're in the afterlife.

[@otakudaikun]

I don't have any basis to confirm that. There's so little info on these guys that were lucky they even get fanart.

[@Ohimeshinso]

@@otakudaikun it was kind of intended as a rhetorical question, you weren't meant to answer it- given that it has no answer. I just wanted to show my thought process.

[@carlosgarza400]

Although I miss the "Like it was your waifu" I think it would be in poor taste since all the waifus and husbandos were sexy af, sigh if only i had time for vn