These Games Hate Speedrunning

[@Zuxtron]

The Baten Kaitos 100% speedrun is infamous for one reason: certain items transform after a certain amount of real time has passed, and one item needs two weeks to evolve. This means that most of the 100% speedrun consists of the game being kept on pause while the runner goes on with their life, until it's finally time for them to attempt the final boss. If you screw up the ending, those two weeks go down the drain.

[@DuskoftheTwilight]

The funny thing is that the timer for that doesn't progress while the game is *actually* paused, so if you want to be as optimal as possible there's still strategy and technique in minimizing the amount of time spent in menus. There's also obviously the opening section of the game up to when you obtain that item which has to be completed as fast as possible while not missing some things required for 100%.

[@lucidity8060]

"Touch Grass" any%

[@Gaeboi69]

thank god nobody cares about this game

[@isaactillman313]

Wouldn't you be able to just change the date ahead by 2 weeks?

[@Zuxtron]

@@isaactillman313 The timer only counts down while the game is running. You HAVE to keep the game running for two whole weeks.

[@IHarleyWin]

The reason the hostages refused to testify was because the police acted with such reckless disregard for their life that they began to trust the captors more than the police. At one point a robber had to protect a hostage from police gunfire.

[@aliceyuri]

indeed, "stockholm syndrome" is a smokescreen cooked up by the authorities to explain away justified distrust in them and its really silly people still cite it like its a legitimate concept

[@lgbtthefeministgamer4039]

bro didn't even need to include that section too 💀

[@kenpanderz]

when those you should be able to rely on become your worst enemy.

[@katieruecker9787]

i'm so confused about the intro😭

[@AlexJade]

Yea Stockholm syndrome doesn't exist

[@IdentityChrist]

Didn't Back 4 Blood developers use speedrun footage of the game to patch the specific bugs used? That feels like hating the speedrunning playerbase way more than any other example here.

[@The_Red_Scare]

THIS. I was trying to remember the name of the game so I could comment about it. A lot of these don't feel like games that HATE speedrunning.

[@cjmcmobile]

same as oot3d

[@Makaibros]

this is why left 4 dead is peak

[@isaactillman313]

​@@cjmcmobilethere is still speed run tricks and tips you can use if you talking about ocarina of time 3d, that's the only oot I know, in the n64 version you can skip more, but there is still tricks in the 3ds version too

[@thelaughingmanofficial]

Pretty sure that's fixing bugs that are unintended.

[@RoyGuyManDude]

Obligatory mention of the cut "sans ice cream scene" in undertale that would've triggered if you reached the judgment hall too fast.

[@RaceBandit]

Speedrunners would've just made the "IceCream%" category in response, where the run is finished as soon as Morbius starts eating his ice cream.

[@skelreal]

@@RaceBandit not quite because there's still the fight against asgore after that, meaning there's still gameplay before all important inputs end

[@yuribacon]

@@skelreal Rules are arbitrary, and there are meme runs where beating the game isn't the point. Nipple% in Mario Oddyssey doesn't come close to beating the game, but just focuses on buying one item as soon as possible.

[@asrieldreemurr8059]

@@RaceBandit Doing the full game with the ice cream would of been such a drag tho

[@ArcadeStriker]

Had to look it up and it would have been insanely funny to stumble upon the first time...as maybe infuriating for speedrunners that know of the joke and yet are forced to have it each time lol

[@HustlerHorstRuediger]

2:45 every 2nd player famicom controller had a microphone. Since the controllers couldn't be unplugged every system had access to a mic - just in case someone is wondering.

[@frogfan449]

I kind of disagree that in the South Park game, not allowing the player to enter codes before finding them is anti-speedrunner. Anyone seriously trying to speedrun would know about this so it is simply part of the route and not inherently a bad one

[@gabrielstrong7322]

Hell, it incentivizes glitchhunters to find a way to break it, keeping the speedrun alive

[@artman40]

Agreed. You can't skip it but it doesn't result in less entertaining run, unlike the things they did in cutscenes. Arzette: The Jewel of Faramore, however, does hate 100% speedrunners by making the longest cutscene unskippable as a gag.

[@IAMFANTROLL]

I still think that's one of the funniest bits in the game ​@@artman40

[@coolioman9073]

​@@IAMFANTROLL it's definitely funny but probably not as much on repeat playthroughs

[@IAMFANTROLL]

@@coolioman9073 if it wasn't genuinely irritating it would be less funny to me, but I am also somebody who tends to only play games once unless replay value is a particular selling point, EG disco Elysium

[@TheOneTrueMar]

This list feels more like "games that didn't account for existence of speedrunners" instead of "these games hate speedrunning". Just because these games implemented certain features that speedrunners hate, doesn't mean that those features exist specifically to hurt speedrunners.

[@TheOneTrueMar]

This video almost feels like a demand for game devs to always focus on speedrunners. Take the South Partk game as example. Devs added a short scene to give more atmosphere to the fast travel. But because it adds time, speedrunners are angry. Why do you assume this was done to spite you? Do not just assume that everything is about you.

[@BigDBrian]

@@TheOneTrueMar Even outside of speedrunning, unskippable cutscenes or repeatedly forced waiting times are a huge nuisance to many players including myself. No cutscene should ever be unskippable if it's already been watched on that game's copy, IMO. As for the teleport animation, it's just a waste of time past the third time you've seen it. It stops adding character and just becomes an arbitrary time waste. I agree with your general sentiment though. I see the title more as a figure of speech. In the same way we sometimes attribute human thoughts onto physical objects. For instance, we say magnets are attracted to one another. Or that hot air wants to rise above cold air. In the same sense, these games 'hate' speedrunning, as they're not very conducive to a nice experience on repeated playthroughs.

[@damienearl8302]

@@BigDBrian I had three particularly annoying experiences with the cutscene thing when playing Mario and Luigi: Dream Team! Because for reference, you can't skip any of its cutscenes except for the intros of giant boss battles, and in hardmode, you can't go right back to the beginning of fights you die in since deaths just bring you to your last save So there are three bosses with attacks that are pretty tricky to dodge, damage that almost instakills with each landed attack in hardmode, and opening cutscenes that can take around a minute to get through each attempt

[@BigDBrian]

@@damienearl8302 yeah that just sounds horrendous... and it's one of the reasons I prefer to go with normal difficulty settings in most games even though I like challenging gameplay. A lot of games are just not built well for it.

[@artman40]

I agree. Poppy Playtime and Back 4 Blood would be far better examples of devs actively hating speedrunning.

[@The_Red_Scare]

I'm really disappointed that games like Back 4 Blood, a game where the devs (Turtle Rock Studios) repeatedly and deliberately changed the game to *specifically* hurt and discourage speedrunning, weren't mentioned. That felt far more like a "game that hates speedrunning" than a lot of the titles you mentioned. I expected more games that genuinely made speedrunning painful either through the efforts of the devs trying to eliminate speedrun techs, long unskippable cutscenes, long tutorials (Ex: P5 is notorious for how long it takes before you actually leave the tutorial section), big time wasting mechanics or sections, etc. I got bored partway through this video because I kept asking how x was an example of a game _hating_ speedrunning.

[@troykv96]

Yeah, I think only Fractured but Whole feels particularly spiteful against speedrunners, the rest are a bit of the product of quirks of the design... Or the game as a whole is a troll experience, like Takeshi's challenge.

[@Selnathorn]

Same for Hollow Knight. The devs donated during a GDQ run only to patch all the glitches, tricks and skips out of the game a day later to actively hurt speedrunning.

[@polocatfan]

@@troykv96 to be fair at least the Fractured but Whole thing is in character for Cartman

[@Dean.....]

@@Selnathorn I didn't know about that one. That's hilarious.

[@natalimoina]

@@Selnathorn oh no the devs improved their game how dare they

[@chiiroptereh]

I like this video but I kinda fail to see how these games "hate" and "despise" speedrunners? Those seem like very strong words for what mostly amount to either A) practical jokes on the player, B) good optimization and/or C) regular game mechanics acting like they're supposed to...? I think a more adept title would be something along the lines of "Difficult Games to Speedrun" or something about how small design choices most wouldn't think twice of create big challenges when the game is viewed through the lens of speedrunning

[@KarateKidX]

"games that hate speedrunning" Includes the most highly optimized speedrun of all time

[@Taka_Does_Stuff]

Not a focal point of this video at all but I just wanna point out that Stockholm syndrome is not real. At all. It has no credibility in academic circles and the behavior of hostages both in the swedish bank robbery that coined the term and in the larger pattern in general is perfectly normal because they... got treated way worse by the police and authorities than by their captors. Yes really. Police were generally more aggressive and careless regarding the safety of the hostages, and prime minister Olof Palme told a hostage directly she would have to "content herself with dying at her post" rather than negotiating with the robbers. This isn't some deep alternative interpretation of events, it's literally in the wikipedia summary of Stockholm syndrome. Police were faced with the fact that they acted less humanely than armed bank robbers and invented a novel mental illness to explain how they did nothing wrong. And 50 years later the majority of the public still thinks it's real because it's been a useful tool for law enforcement all over the world to discredit valid reports of their abuse. Sorry just irks me to see that kind of misinformation being spread when the first google result would have fact checked you. And for what? It's a video about speedrunning, there was no need to tie into something so serious and misrepresent it so harmfully.

[@djephalpha]

I came into the comments hoping to find someone else who pointed this out, and you've got my upvote for the quality information, but the excessive rudeness in the last bit is super uncalled for. Most people have no idea Stockholm Syndrome isn't real. Getting mad at them for not double checking something that is widely believed to be factual is ludicrous. Clearly he isn't intentionally spreading misinformation like you imply he is. You owe OtherRuns an apology.

[@Aethemix]

@@djephalpha OtherRuns clearly did research into Stockholm Syndrome. There is no excuse for researching something with the intent of using your platform to spread information about it, maybe, using it as a central theme of a video, say, and then to disregard all that information because it doesn't fit the narrative. The criticism stands, and is valid.

[@Akrnkriakuisl]

He never claimed Stockholm Syndrome is real, he simply explained the term's origin in order to humorously tie its colloquial meaning into the masochistic nature of speedrunning (especially bad) games. It's an intro gag and nothing more :)

[@Wyattporter]

@@Akrnkriakuisl presenting information in a KZbin video without the prior understanding that it’s fictional is tantamount to endorsing its truthfulness. Because OtherRuns never explained that Stockholm syndrome is widely regarded as fake in academic circles, many will leave this video with the misunderstanding that it’s in some way truthful.

[@DrClownPhD]

You are all taking this way too seriously

[@Tman2bard]

Yeah, this is a clickbait as hell vid. And the intro analogy is the worst I've heard on all of these

[@halcyon.x]

right? what does stockholm syndrome have to do with speedrunning i swear most video essays nowadays are just yapping

[@Tman2bard]

@@halcyon.x Remember, its always fine to yap. Just don't be weird bout it

[@drnanard9605]

I was searching for this comment. There's so much time wasting just in the first 5 minutes, it's crazy. Not only is the intro completely irrelevant, but he didn't have to explain the history of Takeshi's Challenge to talk about the game. He's just padding out the length of the video. I didn't finish the video.

[@Bupboy]

Boohoo, leave a dislike and move on then

[@drnanard9605]

@@Bupboy people are allowed to discuss

[@vibingwithchaos5349]

First video I got recommended. The intro felt kinda unnecessary. Like, what has this to do with speedrunning? And these gaming picks are...odd, to say the least. When I saw the title, I immediately assumed stuff like Hollow Knight, where the developers actually patched out speedrunning strats. These games are just "speedrunning these is hard and here's why" because of bad coding or game mechanics. Another example would be Garten of BanBan. The Euphoric Brothers found out that people started to speedrun Chapter 1 and get a refund. Starting with Chapter 2, they made cutscenes longer, dragged out wait times and put in puzzles that take ages to solve. This is anti speedrunning. Not, watching a 9 second cutscene of Jimmy acting as the fast travel in Stick of Truth. That is clearly meant as a joke and not a targeted frick you to speedrunners.

[@PaulEffinger]

That’s fair about hollow knight, but they left many skips in and some spots have multiple ways of skipping depending on what items you have at that point, so even then Team Cherry isn’t opposed to speedrunners

[@DR---]

I don't understand why Super Mario Bros, Super Mario 64, and the SpongeBob game are on this list. The games don't hate speedruns more than any of game and are very speedrun friendly. This video deserves no likes due to the click bait title.

[@Torqegood]

Starting to sound like speedrunning hates games for having whimsy.

[@eduardpeeterlemming]

Why would you ever speedrun Brawl Stars? I have never seen someone speedrun CSGO or LoL

[@sielunpoistaja]

I was thinking the same, why would anyone consider multiplayer a speedrun. And if they do, why aren't they speedrunning counter strike, it has clearly objectives you can reach by playing ranked.

[@flyinghoudini4151]

Okay so I’m not the only person that found this extremely odd. Like how is this game taken seriously as a speed run with it’s a predatory gambling game.

[@karlo125]

welcome back I hope you are here to stay

[@beebs4283]

hey so really weird you started this video describing a psychological phenomenon that has been debunked. stockholm syndrome doesn’t exist and the reason the stockholm incident “baffled” police is because the police were so incompetent throughout the entire incident that it turned the victims against them. the police attempted to discredit the hostages’ experiences by pretending as if some bizarre psychological phenomena had overtaken them. the person heading the police response was also the psychiatrist who invented the term stockholm syndrome, and as the incident was in large part his fault he had ample motive to try and discredit anyone criticizing him.

[@h8GW]

TBF, I don't think Stockholm syndrome is impossible, especially if the kidnapper is charismatic AF

[@hbonordic4k]

@@h8GW In theory it's def possible.

[@_maliciousIntent]

Stockholm Syndrome has not been debunked, don't spread nonsense. Just because the original case was a poor example of it doesn't mean the concept itself is false.

[@jumpwithkarl]

Dunno if this counts. But for Bonnie's Bakery: Fresh Ingredients 100%. There is an achievement where you try and beat the developers high score of 20k points in Endless Baking. The problem is that the gamemode is extremely slow and tedious with each customer giving 90 points (even lower the longer you go) It takes around 35-50 minutes to achieve compared to the 1 hour total required to get the rest of the achievements

[@qpangfreak]

What game

[@jumpwithkarl]

@@qpangfreak Bonnie's Bakery: Fresh Ingredients. I have the 100% run on my youtube channel but it's outdated with new achievements from the final update

[@The_Red_Scare]

@@jumpwithkarl Oh wow! I had no idea that game had an achievement like that! Thanks for sharing! I'm guessing this is the first game and the game mode you're mentioning is the part where you take care of customers? Do you have to get a near perfect score or is there more to it?

[@jumpwithkarl]

@@The_Red_Scare it's the DLC and it is indeed that gamemode. The premise is that you need to get a score of 20k. You get around 90 points for each customer assuming you give them their order instantly. The game does speed up with how many they spawn, but since the amount of score you get is tied with how fast you are able to give them their order, and that you are usually barely able to catch up with each customer during this point. You end up getting less points each customer. Basically balancing it out

[@phrok]

Regular reminder that Stockholm "syndrome" began because police was much more dangerous to the hostages then criminal, as testifyed by hostages themselves. But story as told by police was simply more popular.

[@wannajuanna8258]

@phrox explain more?

[@phrok]

@@wannajuanna8258 unfortunately I can't paste any links in comments, but would suggest checking abc's article "is Stockholm syndrome a myth? The terrifying crime behind psychology's most famous - and dubious - term" by Rebecca Armitage (I know title sounds like clickbait, that's now just a part of journalism now). Mostly it focuses of Kristin Enmark, one of hostages, who was diagnosed with it by police psychiatrist without even talking to him once. Because it's easier to convince public that woman had something wrong with her for trusting criminal more then police then that her assessment of situation as a hostage in the middle of it all had reasons to believe that police (and government in general, like prime minister at the time telling her on the phone that he would rather let her die then give in criminal's demands) is not competent for the thing they were trying to do.

[@wannajuanna8258]

@@phrok Thanks!

[@phrok]

@@wannajuanna8258 no problem!

[@randomcatdude]

acab

[@JohnSmithSR]

22:59 "Basketball player shooting free throws" proceeds to show a layup

[@AlryFireBlade]

It makes sense that the most entertaining Speedruns are from Mediocre or even bad games. They are mostly so broken, that insane tricks are possible. Tricks that would be fixed in good games.

[@genericfriend2568]

Brawlstars is not a game that should be speedrun at all.

[@Jobroski47]

I mean people speedrun fortnite

[@medea27]

Why not? Plenty of brawl/battle-style games have speedruns... and one of the most popular speedruns is a block-building sandbox game.

[@hatsfilps]

​@@Jobroski47 like for save the world?

[@Jobroski47]

@@hatsfilps yea, and battle royale too

[@hatsfilps]

@Jobroski47 how do people speed run br?

[@TKVirusman]

The Brawl Stars entry is just irrelevant honestly. There comes a point where speedrunning X title is just a joke or an exercise in futility. No one is doing "CoD MW3 5th Prestige" Speedruns. Just don't run competitive multiplayer games, that's moronic.

[@youtubehandlesux]

Framerules made speedrun easier not harder as it gives a little bit of leeway. KZbin is full of people spreading misinformation.

[@Wimpyfox]

The sonic riders footage when speaking of mediocrity at best was uncalled for LOL

[@JoeContext]

Straight-up should be illegal, Riders was god tier

[@Robbie_Haruna]

@@JoeContext As a big Sonic Riders fan, in an objective sense it is pretty mediocre. Like even if we look passed its brutal ass learning curve that often turns off newcomers. Let's look at it from a racing game perspective, where the game itself feels very clunky and janky in terms of its physics, with some stuff feeling very unintuitive (rail grinding comes to mind,) but also the fact that its track selection leaves a lot to be desired. 16 tracks (15 not counting the boss fight,) seems pretty standard for the time on paper, but in practice many of these have heavy recycling, leading to almost half of these not feeling as distinct as they should probably be.

[@eightcoins4401]

Yea, Sonic heroes would have fit perfectly in its spot

[@kek-senpai243]

Most sonic games could have been put there and been accurate. Except for the excellent Sonic 3 and Knuckles.

[@danielj.8876]

Bad video. I was expecting games where the developers actively put hurdles in it to make it less accessible for speedrunners but instead the very first example already is one where the game just happen to have a mechanic that makes one obscure category of speedrunning very tedious. The notion of "hating" speedrunners doesn't fit at all. F for missed the subject.

[@artman40]

I think Poppy Playtime would qualify with its anti-speedrunning update.

[@medea27]

The title isn't meant to be taken so literally mate.... it's _sarcasm._ It's like saying "Microsoft hates me" because your Windows PC keeps blue-screening... it's a turn of phrase. _"Games that hate speedrunning"_ is a way of saying the games have mechanics or coding that make it difficult for speedrunners to find shortcuts.. that's all. And if you think about it, it's impossible for devs to make their game "less accessible" to speedrunners when _'100% glitchless'_ speedruns are a thing. So you might want to rate _yourself_ as _"F for missed the subject"_ instead!

[@XyamaProductions]

​@@medea27 yeah but there is many examples of games where devs intentionally target speedrunners (Back 4 blood) and patch/ruin stuff

[@medea27]

@@XyamaProductions There's actually not that many examples but it can _FEEL_ like the devs are intentionally patching out speedrunning glitches thanks to the modern practice of patching games _after_ release. So many games are buggy messes when players get their hands on them now, and with speedrunners & guide creators being so quick to post content it's like free quality checking for devs... Poppy's Playtime & Back4Blood are well known examples. It's _very_ rare for devs to express an intention to ruin speedrunning of their game, and runners need to remember that from a dev's POV it's not a good feeling to know that the game they poured 1,000s of hours into creating has bugs... so it's natural for them to want to fix them. You may not like them patching bugs out from a speedrunning perspective, but most normal players _want_ devs to get rid of bugs in the game they paid for.

[@natalimoina]

@@XyamaProductions you mean fix the game for the vast majority of players

[@YaBoiJonesy]

The important thing to note about Stockholm syndrome is that it isn't real. Look at how police responded to the hostage scenario and you'll see they put the hostages in more danger than the captors. Police shooting wildly at hostages tends to make the victims pretty upset towards them.

[@mcbeaty3971]

They protected the man who put them in the situation, still a valid diagnosis.

[@squoosh8285]

@@mcbeaty3971 simply because it would be more dangerous to not do so in their eyes. not cause theyve grown attached to the kidnapper. invalid diagnosis.

[@mcbeaty3971]

@@squoosh8285 I think the police are capable of recognizing when witnesses are too scared of the criminal to testify against them.

[@Cirdia]

@@mcbeaty3971 i honestly dont care about this argument but police are also capable of lying. it wouldnt be surprising to hear that they lied about everything because they wanted to protect their image

[@mcbeaty3971]

@@Cirdia Lying about the syndrome wouldn’t protect their image. All that would change in the arguments against them is, whether or not their detractors deny the existence of Stockholm Syndrome. It would go from: „The police behaved recklessly, and Stockholm Syndrome doesn’t exist“ to „The police behaved recklessly, and inflicted Stockholm Syndrome on the captives.“ It would probably actually be worse for their image if the syndrome was widely believed.

[@badtime9000]

"Brawl stars hates speed runners" no it doesn't its just game devs make an online game with the intent to make a longer lasting game rather than making it easy to speedrun. Making a game like brawl stars easy to speedrun is like giving a plane jet training wheels. Its solving a problem that isn't meant to exist

[@Sulferlines]

Oh oh oh! I think I actually have the answer for the EXP glitch not working, Ubisoft Connect reads all your game data and records it to its own database as you play, when you attempt to item dupe, the game no longer relies only on its own datapool but also a datapool the player cannot legally mess with which will rat out any exp or item duplication. This doesn't prevent it in every game, in fact some times it only works on specific aspects of the game but a pretty good way to determine if you can't use this type of glitch is to check if Ubisoft connect has some stat tracker or achievement related to what you're trying to glitch

[@chessemchesse3676]

From what i read,Takeshi's challenge was intentionally bad,as the man hated video games

[@XyamaProductions]

Yep

[@twipplo]

thank god you didn’t disappear forever, welcome back! we missed you and we’re so excited that you’re back!

[@IDGCaptainRussia]

I think it's worth mentioning they reused the Cartmen calling you out gag a 3rd time in the Bring the Crunch DLC. Where there's a safe you need a combination to open. It's especially funny here as that safe isn't even needed to finish the DLC.

[@TerryDax]

I got called a cheater for guessing the password to the churches backroom for my first blind playthrough. It's REALLY annoying, because the password is really obvious if you're even semi-religious, so not only did the gag fall flat on its face, but it made me like the game less for the stupid and unfunny bullshit it would sometimes pull. The fact that you can just straight up miss important abilities that make the game way harder, and that certain characters that you might really like end up unplayable during the last half is just poor design all around. Plus the ending came out of nowhere, and not in the good way that they sometimes do. The game doesnt shit the bed often, but when it does, it's super obvious.

[@shikaded4037]

3:13 how dare you call sonic riders mediocre at best

[@Robbie_Haruna]

As a big Sonic Riders fan, in an objective sense it is pretty mediocre. Like even if we look passed its brutal ass learning curve that often turns off newcomers. Let's look at it from a racing game perspective, where the game itself feels very clunky and janky in terms of its physics, with some stuff feeling very unintuitive (rail grinding comes to mind,) but also the fact that its track selection leaves a lot to be desired. 16 tracks (15 not counting the boss fight,) seems pretty standard for the time on paper, but in practice many of these have heavy recycling, leading to almost half of these not feeling as distinct as they should probably be.

[@isaiahzabell1320]

​@@Robbie_Haruna If you find it mediocre, then whatever, but "mediocre at best" is still totally uncalled for. The game is one of Sonic's best games of all time "at best," I'd say. Despite its flaws it manages to deliver on so much unique potential that hasn't been captured by anything I've seen since. The learning curve, while on the steeper side, is only a problem if you think of the game like it's a substitute for Mario kart. And once learned, the game feels so good to play. I've introduced this game to plenty of friends (including non gamers) and they've all had a good time with it despite not knowing how to do everything right away. Maybe it ain't perfect, but it sure ain't "mediocre at best."

[@Robbie_Haruna]

@isaiahzabell1320 You'd have a point if the learning curve was the only problem. However, that wasn't the main reason it was lacking as a game. That genuinely wouldn't have been an issue at all if the game did a good job teaching you the fundamentals on how to play (it didn't, but still). Again, the biggest issues that held it back is the sheer amount of jank and the lackluster track selection. I always enjoyed Sonic Riders even as a kid, but the game feels exceptionally unpolished even by Sonic standards. It's definitely the best thing to come out of that 2005-2006 year, but it is absolute copium to try to act like this is somehow on the same level of quality as some of Sonic's best when it's very clear the game is not.

[@isaiahzabell1320]

@@Robbie_Haruna I strongly disagree. Sonic Riders has significantly less jank and more polish than most other Sonic games of the same era. Sure, one could argue they kinda reuse stages to bring the count up but it never bothered me because they're clearly presented as "side B" versions of other tracks. But even cutting all those out, I'd still consider Sonic Riders with only 8 unique tracks a great game. More tracks doesn't make a game better. I know your main point was that the tracks themselves were lackluster, and I guess there's not much I can say about that without getting into tons of specifics, but I simply strongly disagree. I consider each track to come off as well-thought out and with plenty of fun alternate paths and secrets to discover. I enjoy revisiting them even 10 years after the fact. The game runs nice and smooth (on the GameCube at least - I can't attest to the other consoles), the atmospheres are varied and fresh, the soundtrack is peak, the story is exactly as good as a Sonic racing game's story ought to be... And, again, all this is just to argue that it doesn't deserve to be called "mediocre AT BEST." If you find it a flawed game with less going for it than the majority of other games, I don't think that's crazy. I can see how some people might not consider its values to outweigh its flaws. But you can't just go saying it's "objectively mediocre," because it's just not true. At the end of the day, I think it's wild but also kind of cool how someone could think just the exact opposite about something as I do and yet have their own valid reasons for it. I personally wish more people would give Sonic Riders a chance, because it has some real cool and fun stuff going for it, so that's where I'm coming from. In my experience the game can be an absolute blast.

[@TalDreamcast]

@@Robbie_Haruna sonic riders was an excellent racing game, and having a learning curve has been a staple of the sonic franchise since the start

[@FreeAimDog]

i remember playing the south park game and laughing because they thought i cheated but i know what cartman would say because he has a semi hate relationship with his mother. if you watch the early seasons of the show it makes it clear so i put what it would mostly be.

[@cortfoster1543]

When bro started talking about a mobile game I thought he was starting an ad read

[@victoriagarcia3078]

Technically the only cut scene in the Fractured But Whole that you can’t skip is the opening, presumably because Cartman thinks his story is really cool

[@chiefbool]

vid feels like clickbait tbh

[@Dragonatrix]

I mean, if the Takeshi's Challenge didn't make it SUPER obvious that it blatantly is I don't know what else could. Dude talks about how a game hates speedrunning by... not mentioning once anything about how it hates speedrunning. A goofy bonus or a thing in the ending that happens *no matter what* is completely irrelevant lmao

[@TheDMan2003]

@@DragonatrixIt kinda feels like the Steel Squirrel was making that gesture on the thumbnail to the wrong audience…

[@ThisIsntWhatYouExpected]

@@DragonatrixI don’t think the title was meant to be taken literally, that’s kinda the viewers fault

[@あき-h6u]

Small KZbinrs practically need this to get noticed by the algorithm

[@h8GW]

I'm not sure you can categorize that a game hates speedrunning if it was from a time when developers didn't care about speedrunning

[@a-very-uncreative-handle]

entire intro has big "no karl jobst i know what a video game is" vibes

[@indumatipngtuber2790]

Ah, the Baten Kaitos 100% speedrun. The only speedrun that's actually longer then just playing the base game vanilla.

[@yfeboanvakenss8841]

theres no way you started this video with the history of stockholm syndrome

[@artman40]

I mean, he started "Death of Speedrunning video" about Billy Murray and preamble of Super Mario Bros section talked about a Roman triumph.

[@Scorialimit]

South Park: " let's add this little feature for people replaying the game so they can enjoy new jokes" This guy: "and I took that personally"

[@CleaveTheDragon]

I don't really think a speedrunner has a right to complain... if their goal is to beat a game as fast as possible, and the means to do so aren't fun... then what value does beating it as fast as possible really have, beyond some minor fame/curiosity? Just invent more categories that let you play how you want. Or play some other game. I know the real value in speedrunning is moreso the community interaction that is dedicated towards dissecting a game people like, and that it reveals more about it's inner workings and nuances that go beyond the intended experience. But when you go beyond said intended experience, you're not obligated to find something that works out in a way that's ordinarily fulfilling. Like, I don't think Mario 64's "120 star" category would be as popular if it was about a glitch where you just duplicate stars for 20 minutes. People revere it cause as-is it demonstrates a lot of knowledge/mastery of mario's movement physics and routes through every level in the game. But again, that's more of a lucky thing, and like I said I had to clarify "120 star" category since the actual way to complete the game the fastest, at this point, involves a few precise glitches that take you through about 3 levels total. It's still interesting and reveals a lot sure, but when the average person things of "beating mario 64 as fast as possible"... they kinda prefer seeing more of the game. When you go beyond what the game developers intended, at this point you have to take what you can get, and either it's good enough to grind 1000 hours for the perfect run, or all that research is something better left theoretical/TAS only.

[@lpfan4491]

This note reminds me of how Pokemon fans were actually angry that a certain fight in Generation 7 was really hard without a cheese, so it isn't nuzlocke friendly...even tho the whole point of nuzlocke is that people thought the games are too easy. People literally got what they wanted and still complained because it ruined their hyperspecific way of playing.

[@knotknight514]

​@lpfan4491 that's just how pokemon fans are

[@eightcoins4401]

@@lpfan4491 Ironically to this day its the only actually difficult fight in Pokemon. But most vocal pokemon players are delusional and think tedious, brainnumbingly boring xp grinding to instantly win by having higher numbers than the opponent is "challenge". Even though not a single second you have to think while spamming the a button on the same move over and over against a low level wild Pokemon. Ive played alot of jrpgs, and in none is grinding as tortorously boring as in Pokemon. SMT has auto battle for grinding and still is way more difficult than Pokemon, since the enemy ai isnt absolutely braindead. Unlike in Pokemon.

[@-hello6177]

Multiplayer Competitive game "hates speedrunning" Well no shit it does now, I thought that was meant to be obvious

[@noyce.]

1:47 this show was amazing, watched it on tv when I was super young to not even know what the show name is. Thank you for that!

[@TheTsukuyomiLight]

When it comes to the fast travel in the South Park game having an unskippable cutscene, why is that an issue? That just puts speedrunners all on the same playing field.

[@matthew5226]

Would they not still all be on the same playing field if the fast travel cutscene were shorter or absent? I am confused on what your point is

[@Rayjacker]

@@matthew5226 If it was shorter, it would depend on how short but if it's removed the fast travel would depend on how fast your computer can load another section of the game, which unless the game has a load remover feature for the timer means slower pcs can get up to multiple seconds of lost time compared to faster pcs.

[@Legend_0O1231]

3:33 TWILIGHT PRINCESS MENTIONED 🗣️🔥🗣️🔥

[@coryalexander9814]

This dude has to be a speed runner. Didn’t even have time to say Super Mario and instead called it SM lol

[@raikaria3090]

I don't think a game like Takeshi's Challenge can really be said to "hate" speedrunners when speedrunners were not really things at this point.

[@Mrbunbun92]

Something OtherRuns forgot to mention is that Takeshi is also a very well known comedian in japan, and he specialices in humor more related to laughing at the suffering form others more than anything else, hence the creation of Takeshi's Castle. The original intention of the game was the same as the show, to laugh at the suffering of someone else.

[@CR1MSONACE]

7:55 Patching an infinite XP glitch for something that isn't even related to patching the glitch counts as hating speedrunners now?

[@isuckatgaming1873]

None of the things that the fractured but whole did were specifically targeted at speedrunners though, nor hating them The title of the video isn't trying to say that the devs hated speedrunners intentionally, but rather that the games themselves have issues that heavily impact the speedrunners For example, the unskippable cutscene at the start is just a joke by the developers, not made to punish runners but just because cartman is reading the story, and since we know how cartman would react to us ignoring him telling his epic story he doesn't let us play the game The fastpass fast travel animation is both just a joke about how the actual character is slow, but it's also just a neat little animation for fast traveling that most modern games feature as opposed to clicking a location and getting a loading screen. This is for immersion, not to target speedrunners The title of the vid is specifically to imply that the games themselves hate speedruns - not the people behind it.

[@Zorothegallade-rpg]

Hollow Knight any% speedrunners when a new boss skip is discovered: 😃 Hollow Knight low% speedrunners when a new boss skip is dicovered: 💀

[@The_Red_Scare]

Skurry: **

[@vodkadotka]

Whoa dude, you kept that subscribe shill so quick that I didn't even have to skip through it just as I was about to try. Nice!

[@drnanard9605]

This video is a waste of time. It literally starts like a parody of video essay.

[@SammyTUKGears]

You shouldn’t have tried speed running the video.

[@wingardiumleviosaaa518]

The game at 14:04, I think, is called Eastward for anyone wondering.

[@df57524]

Thank you very much 👍

[@IPODsify]

3:00 Sonic fucking Riders "mediocre at best"?

[@TalDreamcast]

crazy shit

[@thelastgogeta]

Nasty work.

[@sakazakijin]

I'm an old fart. I got a NES for Christmas back in the day. We WANTED to get fireworks because it was cool. You might wanna rework the title. If it was meant to be toungue in cheek, you didn't convey it very well.

[@TheRealBatabii]

What kind of maniac speedruns a COMPETITIVE game???

[@Darklordxannon]

1:55 you forgot to mention it was best know as MXC for takashi’s castle

[@lowpolyzoe]

Maybe a hot take but I think speedrunning inherently disregards developer intent? Speedrunners are a miniscule percentage of a game's playerbase (even for huge speedgames like Celeste or SM64) and I would really, really dislike it if games dropped everything to cater to a double digit number of speedrunners by cutting unnecessary but nice looking animations etc. Jak and Daxter is a speedgame with a fairly dedicated community and that game has minutes-long unskippable cutscenes, people just sat down and found a way to skip them. I prefer that to complaining that a game hates speedrunners as opposed to it being an extra mechanic they have to account for and route around

[@camera2178]

What is bro yapping about in the beginning

[@luisz0339]

I have to admit, I thought the Brawl Stars was an ad lol

[@666blaziken]

I think kings quest hates speedrunners the most

[@The_Red_Scare]

Just looked this up to see if it was the game I thought it was, and yeah, it's crazy. King's Quest III was pretty painful iirc. Seriously, there are several games that would've been perfect for this video and it's a massive shame these great examples weren't included.

[@qzpv]

I like the video and it's great but you could basically boil it down and rename it to something like ''games that make speedrunning * harder *'' rather than ''these games hate speedrunning'' because these are all the least hateful towards speedrunners compared to certain developers who go out of their ways to watch speedruns and eliminate helpful glitches * cough * Back 4 Blood * cough *.

[@JohnJacob-y5e]

Its almost like games weren't designed specifically for speed runners, but that's just crazy to even think about.

[@akiradkcn]

Wasn't that syndrome debunked ages ago?

[@mcbeaty3971]

Nope.

[@_maliciousIntent]

No, it's very real, but that particular instance was not a good example of it.

[@twizz420]

Takeshi's Castle also aired in North America under the name "Most Extreme Elimination Challenge" or "MXC", on the Spike network. It's dubbed in english, but the script is changed to make it ridiculously funny. There's full episodes of it here on youtube.

[@l_clone]

Brawl stars?! My brother in christ, why are you speedrunning a pvp game??

[@travissapienza4930]

I love games that make "life hard" on speedrunners. Makes even the fastest speed runs of the game interesting when the wr actually requires you to.play the game, and not just who can clip through the badly programmed wall the fastest.

[@artman40]

Unfortunately, there's also a dark side of making things hard for speedrunners. Examples include 1. Luck 2. Grinding (For an example, 100% run that requires you to collect certain amount of common items that happen to respawn) 3. Unskippable cutscenes. Applies to both story and non-story cutscenes. 4. Autoscrollers.

[@natalimoina]

True

[@travissapienza4930]

@@artman40 1. Oh no, there's RNG! 2. Oh no, you have to play the game? that must suck. 3. Oh no, you have to sit in front the computer screen so you can speedrun the game? 4. Oh no, you have to actually play part of the game?

[@artman40]

@@travissapienza4930 Is this a troll comment?

[@travissapienza4930]

@@artman40 No. It's literally what your "dark side ' is whining about. Translating your tears about the horrors of having to "waste time playing the game' into terms everyone can understand.

[@RegalPixelKing]

One game that actually enjoys speedrunning is High on Life. If you sequence break there is various bits of funny hidden dialogue openly joking about you speedrunning.

[@puffcap_]

Hey great video, but I noticed that once you got to south park you kept saying the name quite fast. It almost sounded like you were saying fractured butthole, which is quite a naughty phrase and not what the game is called!

[@Bramhallthefifth]

🙀

[@therealfanmaster]

Dat’s di joke.

[@Eyedunno]

Try finger.

[@CR1MSONACE]

​@@Eyedunno The Fractured Finger?

[@viostrun2]

South Park The Fractured But Whole finger ❤

[@kaneaquino8295]

Life: Soerdrunners have to literally do the 18 years of development through school before they can actually do their achievement goal

[@Grape_Rush_Goat]

02:05 WHY WERE THERE GIANT WOODEN SPIKES THAT COUOD IMPALE A CONTESTANT IN AN OBSTACLE COURSE?! DID NO ONE THINK THIS WAS A BAD IDEA?!?!

[@XX-sp3tt]

6:05 Uh, isn't getting the credits scene the fastest the very purpose of a speed run?

[@kek-senpai243]

The jigsaw puzzle transition during the Mario 64 section is incredibly fitting for this topic.

[@SkarmoryThePG]

I love how you described Takeshi Kitano as "best known for Takeshi's Castle" Best known HERE, sure, but the man is a MASSIVE movie star over there.

[@HelloImClipClop]

Who do you think is watching his videos? 🤦‍♂️

[@SkarmoryThePG]

@@HelloImClipClop Anglophones.

[@BigDBrian]

The brawl stars just seems completely self-inflicted... why in god's name are you trying to speedrun a mobile multiplayer versus game?

[@MatchenTheCrimsonGamer]

This is why I prefer glitchless speedruns. Then they get to actually PLAY the game as well

[@fossfox]

>trying to skip through the cutscenes in the South Park games makes the devs pissed off and transports you to the credits Based to be quite honest

[@ThEjOkErIsWiLd00]

I don't find it based when video games don't respect the player's time

[@nandohenriques2975]

Based indeed

[@-Siknakaliux-II]

Based on what?

[@stachman9531]

trolling speedrunners sounds really funny

[@dalgusmaximus4557]

Wtf did the first minute have to do with anything else about the video?

[@artman40]

The same as ancient Roman triumph and musician Billy Murray (which he covered in one of his previous speedrunning-related videos).

[@Babbleplay]

Speed running : Loving a game so much, you get so proficient as to spend as little time playing it as possible.

[@Mr.Hellboi]

i think for the southpark game they started saving online as well as offline, so when you reload your game what happened last would be static on the server and update your save

[@gippan]

Should have included Secret of Evermore for SNES, in Act 2 you have to wait 15 minutes until a meeting starts in the town so you can progress.

[@stnrodriguez]

3 and 1/2 min in , and this guy is so unfocused and just rambling.

[@brianinvento]

"placing SpongeBob SQUARELY" ✅

[@FlantisFroggu]

1:29 not fast enough, not even top 10, you gotta try harder if you want top 10 in this speedrun category

[@Chocolatepain]

Nice, I enjoy your videos a lot.

[@ReiniBlue]

We missed you

[@harrylane4]

Just a note for the future, if you're going to use a historical scenario as a lead-in for your subject, maybe don't do one that's been as thoroughly debunked as Stockholm syndrome. It does a disservice to your credibility and makes it seem like you don't care to research.

[@joedav67]

It's contested, not thoroughly debunked

[@iantaakalla8180]

Later Pokémon games would really count, either because they have long cutscenes (Sun and Moon) or because actual patches have literally removed what made the speed run fun (Scarlet/Violet)

[@HighLanderPonyYT]

This doesn't just punish speedrunning, it trolls everyone who already knows what to do by wasting their time. Uncool.

[@foreverkurome]

No game hates speedrunners as much as bloodborne when you come to fight mikolash and that's why I love it. I'll always hate speedrunners because I loved to watch people speedrun games but since they're so toxic almost all of the time it's now impossible for me to enjoy watching those type of videos.

[@-Siknakaliux-II]

"toxic" how?

[@squoosh8285]

bro when has a speedrunner been toxic

[@eightcoins4401]

@@squoosh8285 A vocal minority of them are. But thats more so specifically being self identified gamers than being speedrunners.

[@foreverkurome]

When haven't they is a better question. I couldn't name all of the ones I've seen because it would physically take too long. But all you ever hear from speedrunners is excuses for screwing up, constant F bombs because apparently they think that's cool and accusations of everything being completely random that isn't completely telegraphed. It's not a random event unless there are no actions you can take that impact your chance of success and i've lost count how many idiots i've seen who say fights where the opponent can use more than one move at a given time are completely random thus cannot be trained. That's complete BS the only thing that is necessary is that you learn how to handle each of the 3 different moves. If you want to see some actually random attacks then play Touhou as that actually does have some attacks you could call random. I would guess what they really mean is the event contains an aspect of randomness but that's a lot different to going "neeh this event completely randOM and BS"

[@MementoMori7777]

​@@foreverkurome "constant F bombs" Saying Fuck is not toxic, dude. Only if it's used to deliberately Insult another person.

[@Geoffles1890]

I'm glad to see you're making videos again :D

[@Scornfull]

I wonder if the XP glitch was purposefully put into the game just for it to be removed based on a timer, as in it will stop working once your computer's calendar or the game's calendar exceeds a certain threshold

[@bluevines1303]

Knowing South Park I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case

[@aelamf]

fantastic start, caught of off guard

[@TheRealBatabii]

"casual viewers may not even realize that anything out of the ordinary is occurring" Uh how about the fact that it's widescreen and 60fps?

[@totallyrealname6376]

Speedrunner thinking everything revolves around them challenge: impossible. lmao so tone deaf

[@Wookis]

holy shit new otherruns video in the year 2024 this is awesome

[@hashimiyazib]

I'm glad there are extensions to bring the dislike bar back so I can be warned before I waste my time on a video like this