Our BMS graphics suck - part 1

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[@scott81nyc]

Very accurate, most controls companies are just plan and spec. Most service contracts are to address a log book. Most building operators are not concerned about anything but comfort complaints. 1) governments pushing regulations for energy use. 2)consulting engineers should consult. Some places are using smart building consultants separate from construction/installation. Awesome video, I agree with everything you said. The industry is lagging and the technology companies are taking advantage of the visualization, and taking the labor too. Well done, well said!

[@agferriz2]

I love the concepts explained in the video. I think that there are various reasons why energy efficiency is not done but i hope that with todays cost of energy and awareness of climate change we will change things...

[@bryceanderson17]

"Consulting engineers should consult" 😆😆🤔 A big problem we have is that we don't have BMS consultants. Imagine if hydraulic engineers design mechanical systems. We have many fundamental issues. I frequently scratch my head trying to work out how to solve these problems. I actually have solutions, I just can't scale them... Thanks for the comment, Scott. I hope life is good.

[@yup735]

exactly mate all cut and paste bare minimum , this industry used to have real pioneers

[@bryceanderson17]

True, Stan. We are loosing the craft. I hope you are well and your thing is coming along.

[@gaborkomuves6768]

Good point, Bryce. BMS should be more BEMS than building services animation (to optimize energy consumption), but sometimes data such as COP are not available (not exposed by the installer). Regarding BMS energy efficiency I would say that on some platforms are available additional programs such as analytics (e.g. Niagara from Tridium, Niagara Analytics) But optimization graphics shouldn't be specified by the consultant on BMS specs? And such optimization graphics are good indeed for the facility team, but they must use them properly.

[@bryceanderson17]

You can calculate COP, or get it out of the chiller high level interface. Traditionally we used a flow meter for the calculation, which most jobs don't have. However, you can also calculate chiller evaporator flow using a differential pressure transmitter. In Australia most our chilled water systems are primary only, so we always have a chiller evap pressure transmitter. I appreciate that in other countries where they mostly have primary/secondary that the chiller has neither a flow meter or pressure sensor. 🤔

[@Karooseun45]

Like the concept you show…reality is cost cutting when at tender, so graphics is based on cost. I have always thought we should have two sets of graphics. One for End Users (Daily Use) and One for Engineering (could be hidden from End User login but used for Tuning with Building Owner permission). Another thing the graphic should show is the original Design Set points so there is a reference. Normally things go wrong when fiddle fingers adjusts the Commissioning Setpoints without understanding the impact or design parameters.

[@bryceanderson17]

Iv worked on many new construction projects around the world before I moved into consulting. And, of course I agree. Just getting a BMS installed with all the BS is near to impossible. I'm pretty forgiving when witnessing, as long as it is fit for purpose, I'll generally sign off. However, for the next 20 years of maintenance, we have no excuse for not enhancing what the installation team delivered. I think presenting the information in two different ways is a good idea, as you suggested. Probably a must. Facility operators need a very simple, clear view. Most don't want to get to deep into it. Cheers

[@lalitvaidya3859]

Honestly, we did and doing the exactly same dashboard as what you are showing, however in Singapore context, we don’t use COP, we use kW/RT.

[@bryceanderson17]

Is that electrical kW's divided by return water temperature? Can you explain? Thanks.

[@lalitvaidya3859]

@@bryceanderson17 hi, it’s electrical kW divided by total mechanical refrigerant ton(RT) derived from chilled water header parameters.

[@Chadlynx]

I disagree with the point at 12:00. Unfortunately, a lot of facilities teams don't care about anything other than their zones being at setpoint. So extending the extra effort to create something better can often times be a waste of not only time, but company resource. The onus is also on the clients to have a higher expectation from the BMS companies, and eliminate the trend of biasing towards the cheapest solution.

[@bryceanderson17]

Awarding contracts on price alone is a different issue to us proving more engaging graphics. But, I do get your point. I sometimes think, that we don't give clients any other metric to gauge us on than price. Say you went to the shop to buy a shirt. All the shops had similar, not great shirts. Nothing exciting, similar quality. You would just buy the cheapest one. I think our industry is a bit like that. We could improve on just about every part of what we do and differentiate from each other. But we don't. We all do pretty much exactly the same thing. We make the same mistakes. Why should mechanical contractors and building owners evaluate us on anything other than price. Now, I do feel that if we actually did something amazing, there is a good chance clients would still pick the lowest price. But, in my opinion, we haven't tried yet. Obviously I'm generalising. Thanks for the comment.

[@owenmilner9700]

I was going to like this video, untill I saw you had 69 likes and immaturity kicked in.

[@bryceanderson17]

The video has more than 69 likes now. So, I'll take that like now, thank you 🤣

[@mitchs7147]

Wish I could like it twice, everything made perfect sense except when you mentioned ammozin

[@bryceanderson17]

That is exactly how I pronounced it, LOL. Ammozin (Amazon). Damn! Haha.

[@Sathiyakumar3]

You are absolutely right on the why the graphics aren't that good, BMS guys just need to commission the system and handover. period! Thats going to stay for 20 + years. So true. As a BMS Engineer myself, I experiment so many hours trying to present something new. One time, I replicated the whole navigation into "metro style" (Windows 8 Start Like) with very informative animation. Took more than 100+ Hours to make it functionable, but after a 5 sec inspection, my client told me he wanted the usual boring navigation. The "Metro style" was confusing for him. 🤣🤣🤣 Jokes aside, your sketch graphic about optimization being clear is a must. All the necessary parameters were well presented. I'd really like to more about the perspective of someone who have had experience with different BMS systems. If you have time, feel free to check this BMS graphics - kzbin.info/www/bejne/r5OWXopnlLCie8U and I would really be happy to hear your views.

[@bryceanderson17]

I had a look at your graphics video. It's a very nice looking graphic. Probably one of the best iv seen, and iv seen many from most companies. Schneider does have one of the cleanest graphic packages anyway. Out of the box it generally looks better than most. But you have built many non standard features within the graphics. You definately should feel proud of your work, well done. Schneider the manufacturer, does not produce graphics as good as that 👍

[@Sathiyakumar3]

@@bryceanderson17 Thank you so much! I have missed this reply for so long! You made my day! I'm just keen to hear to more about the client's expectations so I can improve upon this. One crucial step was to subscribe to you. Learning a lot lately. Thanks again!

[@Billcasiopost]

Ha Ha, I was like 21 🙂