Our Favorite Value Trail Bikes: Round Table Discussion | 2022 Pinkbike Value Field Test

Our five value full suspension bikes have been ridden, tested, timed, and scrutinized for the individual reviews, but now it's time to cast the votes for our favorite bike of the bunch.
Please consider subscribing to Beta MTB to help support our Field Tests and more
www.betamtb.co...
Presented by:
Norrona - www.norrona.com/
Visit Tucson - www.visittucso...
More Pinkbike videos:
Our Favorite Value Hardtails: Round Table Discussion | 2022 Pinkbike Value Field Test
• Our Favorite Value Har...
YT Izzo Core 2 Review: Featherweight Ninja | 2022 Value Bike Field Test
• YT Izzo Core 2 Review:...
Pinkbike Merch - pinkbike.link/...
Subscribe for more content from the pulse of mountain biking.
Website - pinkbike.com
Podcast - pinkbike.link/...
Instagram - / pinkbike
Facebook - / pinkbikecom

[@kochtrevor]

These reviews need the bike list in the description with time links.

[@johnjones3813]

Ya, and they don't even have a graphic on the video with the bike name, or a timestamp or anything. What am I watching here?

[@rhoodj]

That makes sense.😮😮😅

[@itsgoretecks]

it's embarrassing for a company who thinks they're the mecca of bike entertainment

[@hh-jy1ld]

Lazy

[@kochtrevor]

@@hh-jy1ld Say hello to the other bot spammers in India for me, hh-yj1ld, yea? looooooooooooool

[@sixty2612]

When I worked at a shop, it was a miracle if someone got an SX derailleur to hit both the small and big cogs without having both limits wayyyy out. It’s not a good part but fortunately isn’t that expensive to upgrade.

[@ooyyeeaahh9003]

My SX shifts well but it won’t shift onto the smallest cog

[@CombatWombatQRF]

You all are way too gucci with bikes; really you’re upset value bike forks don’t have 10,000 settings? Don’t listen to these jokers trashing bikes that aren’t $8,000 with gold wireless parts; just get out and ride your bike!

[@ctsk8f16]

Seriously, its painful. Worst reviews ever. Shit on everything except $10,000 full suspension bikes. Slo mo 2 second clips, and then sitting behind apple laptops straight hating everything

[@MTBr-of-SoCal]

Seriously, If I'm gonna go for a bike like the Stumpy, I'd sure as hell second guess it if it came with a drivetrain running an SX. I've got XC (Scott) I occasionally take out running SX and I hate that crap! Slow to shift, eats up the soft plastic derailleur gears and constantly going out of index.

[@andrewblewski7926]

Saw the title and thought...sweet! Value full SUS trail bikes...maybe a Canyon Neuron, Vitus Mythique, Polygon Siskiu T7. *Pinkbike's version of value*: 3400 Euros for the YT Izzo

[@andrewscasualmtb]

Right? Let's go with something that an average person can afford.

[@nassozeebo]

I think they are going for value as in "value for your money" not value as in "as cheap as possible". There are 500-600$ full suspension MTBs on amazon. They are cheap but they are not great value (probably). Full suspension bikes are expensive. I ride a hardtail. There is usually more value in those. :)

[@andrewblewski7926]

@@nassozeebo No no...I got the premise of the video. I'm not advocating for $200 Walmart bikes here. If you read my comment, I listed plenty of value for your money options. Not all of us have $5000+ to spend on a "value" bike.

[@nassozeebo]

@@andrewblewski7926 3400$ is not 5000$. It was in the upper range but i still think it fits in the category. There aren't that much below 3000$. The ones you listed arent that much below but sure, they could have been options. In the realm of quality full suspension MTBs, I think 3400$ is still in the cheap/value category.

[@andrewblewski7926]

@@nassozeebo I said 3400 Euros, not dollars. And I'm Canadian, damn right it's almost $5000.

[@TeddyParker]

Simple. Get the normal Canyon Spectral in Deore spec for 2900 and call it a day. No EL HONGA brakes or 3400 NX builds necessary. Plus, 3500$ Fox & SLX builds aren't an interesting value... GOOD value, yes. But they are not a stand out or unique value. Mid range bikes have been running Fox & SLX for like 10+ years.

[@taylorklein2378]

Have you tried the SRAM DB8 brakes?

[@replacement6386]

As an owner of a 2021 stumpjumper I absolutely loath the sx drive train. I have upgraded the shifters to x01, and the derailleur to gx, and it works wonderfully now, really don't need to change the cassette right away. But after this season I'll probably swap it out. Other than that, the only bummer is the rear shock. It has no lockout and is dreadfully squishy all the time. The frame is a solid workhorse, a great choice for building and tinkering.

[@jessewilliams9575]

Yeah the SX group set is definitely the cheapest for a reason, however the derailleur upgrade is definitely the best bang for your buck. Shifter is just unimportant ergonomics (omitting the double up-shifting features other shifters have), and cassette is a wear item like your chain and chainring.

[@replacement6386]

@@jessewilliams9575 totally agree, though I did find the shifter to be more of a quality upgrade. Since its a touch point the change to a crisp shift makes a huge mental impact. Also it's a much nice material, not all plastic. Second week on my stumpy I went over the bars and caught the shifter with my thigh, snaped it clean in half and the sharp plastic sliced through my pants! Hence the upgrade.

[@Canweatleastry]

Never seen an SX derailleur make it past 3 months. It’s straight up walmart quality.

[@replacement6386]

@@Canweatleastry was surprised they bothered to put it on a bike like the stumpy, but it is what it is. At least replacing/upgrading it isn't super expensive. But yeah, my sx folded like a taco the wrong way in week 2 during the same crash I had to replace my shifter from.

[@henzer3956]

@@Canweatleastry I have a 2021 stumpy alloy with the SX and it’s lasted me 9 months so far.. I’ll admit I’m keen to put a GX deraileur on, but I can’t quite understand the extreme negativity towards SX- Maybe I’m just not used to anything better? Is the improvement really that massive!?

[@simonpage2941]

Where's Henry Quinney??? It's like watching the wooden tops talking rubbish! SX drivetrain..... They are describing cable tension issues! As we say in the UK get a fucking grip.... Entry level kit gets people out on the trails...

[@YoungDoug13]

I bought a YT Jeffsy in 2020 based off these videos. Thanks guys. I also installed a GX shift lever and Derailleur before I even rode the bike. It came stock with SX. It's really a shame that rockshox 35 series forks are so dysfunctional. I'm real happy with my Yari.

[@williamgaldamez3273]

I agreed, I got the 2020 as well and change it to GX. the Yari fork is great.

[@Sck519]

The Yari is easy to upgrade if you ever want to. It is great for the value

[@mysterious_tim]

I wish my Status came with a Yari to be honest

[@YoungDoug13]

@@mysterious_tim super solid bike tho man. Definitely worth throwing some upgrades at it down the road.

[@YoungDoug13]

@@Linkqwd the impression I get, it's more of a quality control issue than performance but I don't own one. Just have seen a lot of complaints on videos. Maybe you got a good one. 👍

[@matthewserna7475]

I have an izzo but man that fezzari is insane for the price

[@pimbeweegt]

Give Levy an Oscar please 😂

[@17madracki17]

I'm still riding my 2010 Norco Shore and searching for Josh Bender videos. Dreaming of when my friend's , brother and I would watch pink bike and then go out and thrash our selfs in the 90s early 2000s

[@vrwgq3q]

go YT! - for value leader. I'd think if someone spent the dollars to go up the spectrum on the Stumpy - it may be the "Better" bike

[@magruderable]

As an owner of a Canyon Spectral CF7.0 2018 I can tell you they have horrible customer service and have never had bearings are parts readily available. After one recall and no supply of bearing kits I could never recommend Canyon. I love my bike, but would never buy factory direct again. Spend the extra money and then let your bike shop deal with those problems. They will occur if you ride a lot and or hard. Too bad because I think the YT Izzo would be an amazing bike, but again could never trust factory direct again.

[@Max-dj5qj]

You can buy the bearings everywhere, it's standard sizes... But yeah, Canyon service is not the best.

[@bensepulveda71]

Not a MTB, but I did own a Canyon Aeroad road bike and the head set was crap. I could not get the issue resolved with Canyon and after 6 months, I decided to just sell the bike. For the most part, except for the headset, it was a wonderful bike. But man, what a horrible Customer Service experience.

[@Ceriva09]

Not sure, but that might be a regional problem, im living in Austria and when my spectral arrived the derailure hanger was bent. I called them and in 4 days i had a newone in my Mailbox free of Charge

[@thesqueakybrake]

Everyone knows by now that SX drivetrains are absolute trash.

[@superfelon6190]

Consumer direct is the way to go for me. My local bike shop isn't very local at 80 miles away. Lol

[@Dalibor567]

Where the hell you live? Antarctica?

[@arrang_f3413]

Wow 80 miles. Are you a camel?

[@superfelon6190]

Lol nope, the sad thing is I live in Appalachia my town just doesn't give af about mtn biking. 😂😭

[@MicajahMcCurry]

It’s the future. Cars are going that way too and it’s for a reason

[@GF-cb8rr]

I've never really had much value add with going to a local bike shop. Even as a novice I've learned to work on my own bike. And if it's something under warranty you're generally still paying for labor with LBS if you can't work on your own bike so why not deal directly with the manufacturer for the parts.

[@alogcor]

I completely agree about the SX drivetrain, it is amazing how bad it is. Reminds me about my firsts bike’s shimano tourney

[@Driftuner]

I would go as far as saying that a Tourney is better than an SX..

[@crikmtb5338]

It’s missing you the u for sux

[@YamahaRider280]

@@Driftuner I second that

[@getstrongby4038]

Why though? I've has absolutely no issues

[@nk-dw2hm]

@@getstrongby4038 I have sx on my hardtail and haven't had issues either

[@fairuzarkan6908]

can you guys review the polygon siskiu N9? i know the siskiu T8 is a wonderfull bike for its price, but is the siskiu N9 worth it?

[@aroundtheblockmag]

Christopher Barnickel 1 second ago I have a hard time with the argument that consumer direct equates to a more difficult bike to work on. They are the same parts as the ‘big brands’ which is why most people are taking their bikes in-tune ups. I have never seen a shop have discounts service based upon ‘their’ brand. Nor have I seen a shop that says they won’t work on a brand

[@SteveKubiak]

How's the stumpy vs. the status? Status looks like a lot of bike for the $$$

[@sandycarmichael31]

I don't know if the advice to get the short travel spectral if your local terrain is steep and chunky is strictly correct. The advice is correct if you only consider the bikes on test but should come with a caveat that for that kind of terrain the short travel canyon is incredibly stiff and you'll be far more comfortable and confident on the long travel 160/150mm version of the bike which basically costs the same as the short travel version in alloy. The short travel version has the enduro geo but is actually better suited to high speed machine built flow trails with big jump lines than natural chunk

[@watsonthedog264]

Has anyone else pointed out the upside down water bottle on the kona at 9:35 ?

[@Spoolingturbski]

I tested both the Salsa Horsethief and CO-OP 3.1. After both I felt they were great but really didn’t handle as good as my older Santa Cruz. I ended up getting a Cannondale Habit. Such a well riding bike. And upgradable.

[@chadhertz4092]

How about the Stumpy Comp Alloy vs the YT and Canyon?

[@bayarearob]

I ride a ton of hills and switch backs. Haven't rode a bike since I was a kid and had a haro. Bought a Scott scale 970 in 2018. I ride for the hill climbs for cardio and enjoyed the bike. Bought my first expensive bike last week and that was the intense 951 trail from Costco for under $3,500. It's really expensive to me, but I guess it's still considered a entry level bike lol. I killed my previous times climbing the hills and set personal records yesterday. So far I'm loving y

[@jeffmansell6874]

Polygon t8 should of been in this thing . Great bike for the money.

[@asherevans5641]

They probably considered it but there’s SOOO many reviews on it they would rather give a broader spectrum with the shortage on bikes and they already have a review on it so they don’t need to do another

[@Aceton_]

Well obviously a 500bucks fork will be way worse than a 1200bucks fork (these numbers are in € for Europe) if u go to a lyrik ultimate which is around 1000€ but can be found for 700€ the performance stuff isn't that great value. The problem is just specialized giving a very nice frame but absolutely crap components for the price

[@CombatWombatQRF]

You’re totally on it man!

[@joeyb3102]

LOVE this channel and these videos but the bad part os it's all geared towards west coast riding. You're cutting out a HUGE population of the country that doesn't ride AZ or PNW. Come do some test on some super technical east coast riding where it's all greasy rock gardens and punchy climbs. We all get it. PNW is way better and more fun but most people in the country will never ride there. We need to know what bikes work best out here

[@TreeShark]

Great idea for video but Bad execution, most common folk looking for value bikes don’t know these bikes names or brands etc… 1) you need bike name,brand etc.. superimposed on the video and ranked 1-5 2) you need to list the names,brands and online link in the video description

[@benjamin83065]

I just got the Kona Process , and yes the brakes need to be upgraded, thankfully is not that expensive and is a pretty budget bike.

[@hoff482]

Good stuff, thanks for sharing. I see a tread right now with even high-end bikes are coming under braked. Have you noticed this? If so, do you think it may be due to component availability due to the shipping and manufacturing backlog?

[@tykishi9856]

where do they buy these bicycles?? it’s my only big issues rn

[@zerocool675]

curious why you haven't used any Scott bikes in any of your field tests (or at least in a long time)? I know this is a trail vid, but just asking in general.

[@jeffreydzialo]

Did you put the stumpjumper in a stand, and attempt to dial in the shifting... Or did you just test as is? It's strange for a new drivetrain to shift like trash without a setup issue.

[@LoganCarbaugh]

I love both of my Stumpjumpers I had/ have

[@gtrance3567]

Best geometry for bad back? Can’t hunch or reach too much.

[@nikounourbakhsh8433]

I have a process 134 that I bough last year and I absolutely agree that the brakes are pretty awful but overall the bike is very jumpy and fun to ride

[@MicajahMcCurry]

The best ad reads on KZbin. I like the puppy one though with the tongue stick out and eye balls at the end.

[@hodges32]

Why don’t you test bikes that are actually at the same price point.

[@KriegerKrieg]

Bookmarks would be so handy on videos like these.

[@jorgec7285]

Izzo it is thanks guys now just have to wait till there back in stock 😥

[@lancekeech7786]

I have an Izzo Blaze. IMO i think its the perfect balance and makes the bikes better for the way down and closes the gap to spectral but still climbs great!

[@Max-dj5qj]

I go for a stumpy comp alloy for 2600 and tune it to get a really robust all-rounder

[@midlifeshredder]

Loved this series but completely disagree with consumer direct brands being harder to service. 90% of the time I need service are with components or basic servicing in which the frame has nothing to do with it. And the one time I needed a warranty on the frame I got the part within a week, something the LBS would have had to do with any other brand. Can’t speak for other direct brands but Fezzari has been amazing with warranty service.

[@72SeaHag]

Thanks for sharing. I'm considering a Fezzari purchase soon; and their lifetime frame warranty is a huge part of that. Good to know they stand behind their products.

[@aliassmithandjones9453]

where can I find Part 1 of this video?

[@roik.6694]

Cheap bike is crap

[@alexprobert717]

i have the stumpy and i think the sx drivetrain works perfect but i can see these guys that ride top end bikes all day every day may feel its clunky

[@jonathanross2304]

"Budget" in mountain biking = 3 grand

[@BWEEZY8023]

This bike was really easy to assemble kzbin.infoUgkxMesz3KOGEmwmvyKQfLfrRSUXLFzfVHZA and required very few adjustments out of the box. The wheels did not require any truing/adjustments. The frame had some small scratches, but nothing major.I did replace the seat though - the seat it came with was very uncomfortable. The tires need to be re-inflated every 4-5 days, but this appears to be quite common for the narrow 700x25 tires.Overall, in my opinion, this bike looks and rides like a much more expensive bike.

[@brokenrecord3523]

I'm moving to Tucson this year from one of the flattest areas in the US (NW Ohio). This is exactly the kind of info I'm looking for. I road bike, but really hope to move into trail riding.

[@1971jmoreno]

When did the name change from mountain bikes to trail bikes? Now we have gravel bikes, mountain bikes, and trail bikes? Seems like a way to make even more money by manufacturers.

[@dougcook3174]

Man I want the YT, but I'm 100% wrapping the logo if I do get it. Who thought YT was a good name for a high-end bike company?? 😂

[@PavelMetodiev]

Hi, thanks for the great video. Could you please make a comparison video between Santa Cruz Tallboy and Canyon Spectral 125?

[@rightprivilege]

3 field testers that all have ZERO calf or thigh muscle definition…pick a bike that gets you off a computer and onto a trail

[@arnie2103]

YT sent me a bike with a faulty brake, cs was quick to resolve the issue by mailing me a new one. But it really shouldn't have shipped like that to begin with, the brake lever pressed all the way to the grip.

[@CoffeeMonster12]

You can't blame a company of one faulty brake lever that most likely isnt even the companys fault

[@arnie2103]

@@CoffeeMonster12 When bike companies assemble bikes, they cut the brake hoses to size, bleed them and of course test them for qc. The QC part was missed on my front brake.

[@calinfloyd]

Just ordered the capra core 2!

[@YoungDoug13]

YT MOB

[@kakusei3672]

1 month on my izzo core 2. It's fuckin rad

[@_superjoe]

just moved bacc to Tucson and looking for an affordable everyday bike... any suggestions?

[@McSchwabl]

With the Fox fork you can just put a GRIP2 Damper in. And just like that you end up with a realy high end fork.

[@youling1997]

Is the air spring the same as high-end one?

[@McSchwabl]

@@youling1997 yes

[@youling1997]

@@McSchwabl For Fox 36, float as a higher pressure than rhythm fork for the same weight in the setup manual.

[@McSchwabl]

@@youling1997 has probably to do with the different damping, but the air shaft is the same.

[@Max-dj5qj]

Go to a tuner, spend less money than for the grip 2 overrated stuff and get a better fork

[@jevanskickstandcrew8373]

This category is very important, I'm gonna spend the rest of my life riding a mountain bike but I'm never buying a boutique brand

[@kenflydal3060]

Hey. I would like se and heer your run Cube Stereo 120 and Cube AMS One 11 TM in a test like this. Ken Denmark

[@Max-ip5yb]

video deserves a big 👎

[@Goat.OnMorphine]

Don't Levy experience donut/tim horton withdrawals, buy beta mtb 😆

[@kuyajayyoutubechannel6327]

When it comes to fork which is best to use for cross country bikes 29er fox stepcast 32 or Sid ultimate sl actually my bike is trek carbon fiber 29er I want to know what fork I will buy tnx?

[@willbennett8799]

Dialed dialed dialed dialed, these guys love to say dialed… I don’t think they could ride a bike without saying dialed dialed dialed..

[@markbenn1907]

Specialized always struggles w/ their value because of components. Not sure why but their frames are so so dialed.

[@finroddd]

I didn't hear anything about Norrona garment. R u happy with it? It seems very stylish.

[@darrinkulyk9560]

The Lyric IS an AMAZING Fork for a TrailBike 😎 Perfect

[@eeasude]

I see that your you said the canyon felt a little bit large. Do you think a smaller size like a medium would have been better?

[@matt-g-recovers]

Let's go ride in some terrain where there's no such thing as traction and then try to judge these bikes....

[@ish474]

my '19 Stumpy was 3500 new, I bought it for 1700, less than a year old and I have no idea how much I've spent in upgrades ( I swear) but It's definitely over 4k but I'm out of parts to upgrade. SCORE!!!

[@mislavsprajc669]

you could buy the fezzari for the parts and then swap the frame

[@guillemc8219]

Which other bikes were on the test? Do you have a video on the Kona?

[@markjmaxwell9819]

I like the place that mountain bikes are at in this moment in time. With great 2X front chainrings still on offer along with singles it's a buyers market. Love how 27.5 and 29 are both on offer. Having seen the evolution of MTB's since the eighties the last six years has seen the most changes for the better.... I always rode mid range Shimano and it always worked well on my road bikes. Will probably go Deore for my first MTB and l think working on your own bike is half the fun....👍

[@mike_rides_bikes]

I bought the process this year, got some take off brakes off a Santa Cruz from LBS and getting a new rear canister for the shock and all that for 250$ to make the bike that much better

[@bayarearob]

Can you recommend a bike that would be killer for climbs around $3,500? I can always return my Intense 951 trail to Costco

[@kakusei3672]

Yt izzo core 2

[@alexex3757]

Could you do a value enduro field test ? Very nice vid

[@DaBinChe]

I'm glad I got an Izzo C2 earlier this year.

[@timothygood5317]

Something tells me the Scott Genius still owns these bikes at the price point, with the exception of "maybe" the Stumpy...

[@stevenbrideau3741]

Not with that rear shock.

[@nostr8ghtlinzs596]

I read somewhere that SX drive for OEM is different than retail. The OEM version is made to be easier/cheaper to install at factory. helps to hit the price point.

[@aaron___6014]

Where is the list of the bikes discussed?

[@YamahaRider280]

We tried to order the canyon for my wife as it was the best value bike available at the time… After you get it into the shopping cart however. They tag on another $1000 for ups shipping and duty. Yes $1000 shipping For a $3000 bike (this is to get one in Canada. So at $4000 you might as well order a Jeffsy with way better components. We ended up finding a slightly used Devinci Marshall for $2400

[@John_S74]

I just got the Neuron CF 8 for $3800 CAD. The breakdown for me was an extra $30 for the box they ship it in, $100 for shipping. That was the payment directly to Canyon. Once it arrived in Canada, I had to pay the 13% percent sales tax plus an additional 13% in duty fees. Which was around an extra $1000. For a carbon frame, fox suspension setup and slx gear all the way around, it was still considerably cheaper than any other option i found.

[@IVANMTB]

good video and thanks for sharing 👍 like #ivan_mtb

[@GUY-on-Earth]

why are they referring to the Spectral as a trail bike when it’s an enduro?

[@gordonbloe6959]

Maybe the 125mm Version?

[@leigha6275]

Thank you Pinbike Team for a very helpful comparison. If you were building from a frame, and choosing between the Stumpjumper and Izzo, which would you choose and why?

[@fanmanabc]

Didn’t they answer that in the video? I believe they went with the Stumpjumper because of its quality and geometry. Canyon Spectral came in at basically a tie but couldn’t say for certain based on their convo.

[@JohnM-p5r]

Ok I'll subscribe 🚲

[@junglebellsnana7997]

Enduro also please.

[@I3estHer0]

Wow, the shot at 2:03 is just great!

[@courtmarker1779]

love the view

[@zoranmaksimovski2755]

AWESOME !!!!

[@disley3857]

😔⁉🔥🤘

[@budakbageurbandung]

No polygon siskiu?

[@gggggggg204]

Because it's not trail bike, it's downcountry.

[@predatox1515]

Nice vid

[@grant7813]

🙏🏼

[@mkhitarkhodaverdian7159]

I wish i could afford one of those bikes

[@jstates5266]

These guys are all so awkward 😅 just get levy to do the whole thing solo. Kaz is OK too though

[@gravitybass]

Dude the Beta MTB people really earn the name Beta. Kaz is just Kaz but those other two are totally people you avoid at the trailhead.

[@LCNismo]

Anything below $7k is trash

[@Eric-xx3mb]

What specific trails did they test these bikes on? Does anybody know? Were they blue, black, or double black trails?

[@pewn1562]

Cringe Albert

[@devinbyrnes8058]

That Fezzari is frustrating. The carbon version called the Delano peak has great géo on paper and the same extraordinary value pricing. Why put bad géo on the aluminum frames? Thanks for doing this PB. Nice to see some bikes in the price bracket I shop at.

[@tylercloward1677]

The carbon Delano and alloy Cascade series were not likely designed at the same time.

[@GF-cb8rr]

Two totally different bike's.

[@petedog9581]

Maybe some day these guys could actually let us see some of their "skilled riding." The slo mo 5 second cuts don't show much. $2.5-4K doesn't seem very budget. I think this series is my last of watching these Pink Bike/Beta. MTB has lost its soul. It is all about making Friday Fails now... or making the bikes a rich man's toy. What is happening to mountain bikes is what happened to Harleys about 20 years ago. People bought $40K motorcycles and never even threw a leg over one in their lives. These clowns split hair between bikes and act like the differences are monumental. They always suggest the most expensive bikes.

[@Lve2face]

You're on drugs dude. Yes, you're entitled to your opinion but saying that mtn biking is losing its soul is just laughable. Mtn biking is in it's Renaissance and it's sad you don't recognize it. Stop the hate.

[@petedog9581]

@@Lve2face Maybe you need some drugs duuude. The shit people do on trails is stupid and most riders just suck, that I encounter. Skidding trails and trying to ride trails at terminal velocity is poor biking and used to be unacceptable. And the solution is not to bring in machines to cut trail and build shark fins and bullshit like that. Make the trail sustainable and leave it natural. Keep that other crap in the bike park. Riders can't even turn properly without 3 foot berms. It used to be about getting out in nature with some buds. Now it is all about sending it for a cool vid.

[@Pienimusta]

Seems community is better without you.

[@BlazingTonic2009]

@@petedog9581 I can agree with you in part. I do appreciate the natural trail building a lot more at times. For me, a big part of the allure is exploring and going on epic adventures out in the wilderness. I think because MTB is becoming a lot more mainstream and commercialized people can get really competitive. It sometimes attracts more of that bro mentality depending on where you are riding.