Our Thoughts On Religion Part 1 | Baptisms, Christianity and Church

If you've been following us for a while, you've already heard all about our views on Religion as it pertains to sex. Here we scratch the surface of what it's like to grow up religious and reexamine those beliefs, and what it's like to grow up without any religious experiences and be confronted with existential questions later in life.
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[@treeefrog]

Such an interesting conversation, I really appreciated the thoughtful questions and your contrasting experiences!

[@celiaedwards93]

I really wish we could have this conversation in a round table way. This is a great video, great conversation starter.

[@lucybush5993]

Totally feeling this topic, can't wait for part 2,💙🙏🏼

[@thebestwillow]

Looking forward to part 2.

[@QueentDB]

I'd like to see a part 2.

[@alisonlove2784]

Yes definitely need a part 2.

[@denni7621]

Super interesting topic, agree with others maybe consider this series as a discussion on Christianity and it’s impact on how you perceive the world. I am not religious but would say I am more guided by eastern belief systems such as Taoism or Buddhism. I don’t actually practice either but my reading in both helped me ground a moral compass I innately think we all( mostly) have from early childhood. Institutions of any kind layer beliefs and ritual and social norms on us so am open mind to question and check is essential as we get older. Fantastic you have each other to help check and balance thinking , it is super adulting.... love the casual but deep chats you are posting. Keep up the great work. Stay safe in 2021

[@katiemalolo2859]

Loved it ladies!! First off I wanna let you two know how great you two are.. Poor Shell, my grandparents dog missy went through wearing a cone for a week or so because her dog poked her little eye with grass or something.. My grandma said she had to keep putting medicine on it until she got better.. Now for the religion part.. Now for me, I have been to a lot of churches and have experienced a lot from them but they all seem the same to me, they all pretty much said if you follow us we will help you get to heaven but when they found out I was a lesbian they all turned their heads and said I was going straight to hell.. Except one, from 2019 to March 2020 before we knew about Covid I went to this Christian church with my best friend at work.. They were fine with me being me.. No judgement.. But since Covid, I haven't been back.. To me church can be boring, cause like Hannah said I couldn't understand anything they said I pretty much just followed along and sang worship songs cause at the time it made me feel good.. Now I just go day by day living my life either working or spending time with my family and friends..So thanks for your experiences, love to hear more.. Much love to you all.. And I hope Shell is better soon.. Stay sweet and keep on rockin!!

[@alisonlove2784]

Informative as usual. I'm lucky I was brought up in a Christian family and when I told my family I was a lesbian it wasn't an issue.

[@gk37013]

Yes, you are very lucky that your lesbianism isn't an issue.

[@alisonlove2784]

@@gk37013 I realise a lot of people have difficulties when they come out. I've had a great family too feel comfortable with who I am. Take care .

[@sera4821]

Fascinating conversation - though what intrigued me the most was how you both manage to have a respectful and engaging conversation when your personal beliefs are so different. I went from Catholic high school to buddhism to wicca to finally settle on atheism and science as the grounding for my perspective of the world but I still feel enriched by knowing and conversing with people from all kinds of faiths and backgrounds. Looking forward to hearing more of your thoughts and musings on this topic!

[@gsco82]

Very interesting and thought-provoking conversation. After some exposure to Protestant Christianity and a few years in a non-Christian cult, I now feel freed from religion. I used to think that I was agnostic, but now label myself as a non-religious theist. I would love to see a part 2 to this topic.

[@jaimedarling6716]

Sunday Funday... my opinion Religion doesn't make you a good person your actions do... There are a lot of wolves in sheep's clothing...

[@gk37013]

...and plenty of them are religious leaders.

[@kimberlydidia39]

Would love a part two. Very interesting for sure!

[@Anouddw]

It was really interesting to hear this!

[@chouyounne]

Very interesting topic, would love to hear more about it. I am not a very religious person but i still use/see some events/relationships/friendships with a religious lens in my life but, I also agree with Hannah, any experiences/relationships with anyone, family, teachers, friends can have big impacts on ourselves and how we examine/evaluate life and any relationships. Shell is a talented singer.

[@tearagallinger2853]

Another great video happy new year

[@NSHarrison]

It seems like such a deep topic to explore further. As always, so eloquent.

[@lindseygood7241]

Good conversation! Can’t wait for it to continue. I’m currently working through deconstructing my own religious upbringing to figure out exactly what I truly believe and know to be true and what was indoctrinated into me but not aligned with my true self.

[@gk37013]

Religion per se is a cultural affect and where you are born determines with which religion you are brainwashed to believe, e.g. if born in India one would most likely be Hindu; if born in Israel one would most likely be of the Jewish faith, etc. All religions insist their god is the one true god and that all others are based on false prophets. All religions depend on indoctrination for survival and evangelism to thrive.

[@ericam9114]

Thank you for starting videos on this topic. I was raised Christian and still am but interestingly I didn’t relate to some things. Catholic Churches do things quite differently. So hearing your perspective was interesting. The part were Sadie talks about the philosophy of religion different that what I learned as a Christian. I was always taught the you just have to believe in god and that Jesus died for you and you would go to heaven. It wasn’t anything to do with how you live your life now to earn salvation. And Hannah saying it was selfishness to get to heaven- I think it’s probably more fear from going to hell. I think you guys should check out the channel “God is Grey” it deconstructs Christianity and challenges a lot of widely held beliefs. She recently had a video about if hell actually exists and she had a lot about the lgbt+ issues and why it’s not a sin. Also hearing about how Hannah found baptisms to be cult like was super interesting. I’ve been to some churches where baptisms are more public and kind of like a party. But I think that type of baptism is seen only in bigger newer non denominational churches. Anyways I’m very excited to see the next videos in this series! Thanks for making them. I’m currently trying to figure out if I’m not straight and I’ve realized my Christian upbringing is causing a lot of problems in figuring it out because i was always taught being in a gay relationship was a sin.

[@HannahSadie]

Hi! You bring up a good point regarding the teaching of salvation. I agree with you that the Bible and Christianity teach that belief in Jesus is salvation-I may have misrepresented that idea a bit. I think by extension of belief in Jesus, you live the way he taught in the gospels which is what I was thinking when I said that. I’ll definitely come back to this! Thank you for your thoughts:)-Sadie

[@josedavila]

heeey so nice seeing you both starting 2021 thanks for beeing there and the sharing. love you both A LOT BIG HUGS. sendig best vibes your way. hope is a much better year. and you grow all positive ways specially spitirually. very important for a full and in balance life

[@dreamngo4it943]

The way you so genuinely but also quietly and hesitantly asked how organized religion isn’t a cult, was so precious. I hate how cult-y organized religion is but would never ask it that well lol

[@loupelizzo2399]

I grew up as catholic but it was put on us if we wanted to go to church and I grew up in a rural area on a farm. I feel now that the church itself seem hypercritical but when it comes to faith I am more comfortable. Thank you so much for this video I enjoyed the chat that happened and the depth you both went into it. Loved this so much and both of you are honest about this as well, personally I feel religion or faith is a personal journey in my view. Yes please part 2

[@31051982loz]

Love having the perspective of someone who was raised religious.

[@kenziestoneman7141]

Back to you happy 2021 I love seeing you all and I miss you all I don't get on KZbin that much anymore but take care and have a great year!!

[@deemoore97]

You guys do such a great job of discussing religion while still respecting each other’s experiences. I struggle to talk about it with my girlfriend because she is extremely dismissive of christianity so I avoid bringing my own beliefs into it

[@seanriddle4004]

Please do a part 2 of this

[@sarahmckenzie847]

I’d love to listen to your videos in podcast form!

[@southeastalaska88]

Tenets. What I found was that Christianity seems to be much more simplified than that. From what I gleaned it seems as if the core value is to tell others about Jesus but don’t try to make them believe. The other thing I was lead to believe was that it teaches that a believer should never judge anyone. Anyway. That was my takeaway from the research I’ve done so far. By the way, I completely gave up on religion when I moved out of my parents house when I was 16. Thank you for providing this forum for us to weigh in on this subject.

[@greggray6602]

Hannah and Sadie first of all I want to tell you how much I respect and admire the both of you. Your comments on Black Lives Matter ✊🏿 issues this past summer were poignant and gripping. I loved your comments on this subject. I don’t disagree with this video but humans are the cause of all the confusion of religion. Not God. I’m a gay man who loves God. I was Baptized by a gay preacher. I just want you to know that I appreciate you taking on such a sensitive subject. That’s why I will always follow you. It takes strong people to approach sensitive subjects. Love you guys ❤️

[@dakatismoonblade3450]

Yeah, I've searched for a community to be myself with for a long time. I realize there is a lot more to life than I know and to choose to look for it is what makes life so much better. It does hurt though.

[@Gabbame11]

Very interesting topic. Like someone mentioned in another comment, I think title of series should be "Our thoughts on Christianity..." unless you plan on speaking about the tenets of other religions, e.g. Islam, Judaism, Buddhism...

[@lassam333]

I'm Jewish and I grew up in a tranditional Jewish (not really keeping the laws, but celebrating the holidays. I still love to celebrate the holidays and go to synagogue for the holidays. The community I go to for the prayers, tried to pull me more towards them, but I can differntiate well between my "religious" life and "civil" life in which I'm also a human rights activist.

[@monicajames4700]

I think that we must each reach a place where we interrogate inculcated ideologies which are hinged upon our socialization and this includes religion. Hannah and Sadie, I also experience some nostalgia because I miss my church community and the music since I play the guitar and enjoyed that component of the worship. But because of my sexuality, I had to reject Christianity and cannot return to the church where I was socialised because I would NEVER be accepted there.

[@pelusabetancor3499]

son geniales chicas tratando estos temas. un saludo grande desde Uruguay

[@lgrinner]

This matter lasts for hours. I grew up without a father, my mother I think was somewhat Catholic, she baptized me just in case ... But my beliefs lasted until I reached the age of reasoning. About Jesus, I can say that he was a very cool boy, with very progressive ideas, but if he lived today ... well first he wouldn't be like in the photo ... rather dark, and without a passport. Like him there were several. But the Catholic Church has done very good business on those 10 commandments issue. A VERY good series that I recommend is "Good Omens" My guidelines were from Buhda's teachings- consciousness? A higher power to believe in? I think that in the future it would be the "AI". Religion..? No thanks Let's live this life, because the only sure thing since we are born is that we will die some day. 2021: here we go!..😉

[@tabs41]

"This is not a drill. There is no second life to come. Even the future in this one life is unpredictable and there are no guarantees about what will happen next. So it makes sense to enjoy life now" Anon

[@thebestwillow]

In my experience, the main point of Christianity isn't to save people, but to welcome those who choose to come to church or to Jesus, and to help those people grow in their own faith. I think if an organisation places a lot of emphasis on bringing new people in, then that can be a major red flag that they are in fact, a cult, not a religion.

[@mjp2palmtree]

One thing I've found to answer the question of what is the difference between a cult and organized religion is something called the B.I.T.E model (behavior, information, thought, and emotion control). I was trying to figure out if the religion I came from (and finally left) was a cult and came across the model. I think it's a helpful to sort out what is a cult and what is not.

[@barryhopwood6172]

Teach children how to think rationally and not blindly accept teachings about mythical realms and the world would be a better place. I agree with Richard Dawkins that indoctrination enforced with threats of eternal torture should be regarded as child abuse. As always, guys, you tackle the hard questions with a light touch.

[@savifaith6038]

I just wanted to open your eyes and give you another perspective. I know many people know what lutheran is. But I am ELCA lutheran. The lutheran branch of religion is wide from Missouri synod, closest to Catholics to ELCA which is what I call the Rainbow church. We are very very open and allow female pastors, gay marriages, and all lgbtq members.

[@savifaith6038]

I just wanted to leave the welcome message from my local campus ministry. I think this welcome message shows much of what all ELCA churches stand for and show our welcoming love. “Lutheran Campus Ministry at Common Ground is a Christ-centered community in the Lutheran tradition (ELCA). We believe that all people are created in God's image. We are passionate about the radical hospitality that Jesus showed all people We are committed to being a place of that same hospitality. We welcome all people to our life and ministry together -- in worship, at the font, at the table, and in our life together regardless of race, gender identities, sexual orientation or any other category society uses to differentiate between people. There is no longer Jew nor Greek, there is no longer slave or free, there is no longer male and female; for all of you are one in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:28 We are a ministry of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, and the La Crosse Area Synod. We are a Reconciling in Christ ministry. Being RIC means that we are intentional in being a place of welcome and safety for lesbian, gay, bisexual, asexual, transgender, and questioning people.” Just food for thought as I love to say, and maybe help you see things from a different perspective than Catholic. And by no means am I saying what you believe is wrong just that a lot of people don’t know about the ELCA until they hear about it.

[@southeastalaska88]

Great job on a touchy subject ladies. I think religion is the wrong term for the discussion though. Possibly Christianity would better description of this conversation. I also grew up in a very religious home and pushed back because I felt many of the same things that many people do. I set about researching the whole subject. What I concluded was that most “religions” interpretations are to get people tho believe in the religion’s

[@briannoland3544]

Pràyer is a wonder Ful way to go

[@maristuginski]

I just want to address the questioning about religions and cults, it's really not the same. Religion has to do with spirituality and with all the great questions the humankind has always posed, such as "why are we here", "what comes after death" and all in between, and that's why you'll find some kind of religion in any and every region of the planet. Yes, it serves as moral compass, because morality is correlated with community and being part of a religion means being part of a specific community etc but it's important to notice that as much as it's a set of rules it's also about believing and explaining and being part of something. I just really want to point out that being religious is very important to a lot of people and even if we can't find in ourselves to believe in it we should support others who do (of course I'm talking about the good people whose beliefs don't hurt anyone).

[@alisonlafrance6504]

Really good series topic! I think I disagree that all organized religions have to be centered around a teaching on what comes after death and how to get there. I think it's the reverse, its achieving peace here and now. I think this is more apparent in eastern religions, but looking further into the teachings of the new testament, its highlighted how we are a part of jesus/god and they are everything, so we are everything. it's being connected to that cosmic fabric...which i think is similar/the same/ to other 'secular' moments of joy we experience. sorry this wasn't meant to be a rant! i really enjoy your videos!

[@bernadettezito8106]

This was a very interesting being Catholic myself. I find it hard to be who I want because of my upbringing and the consequences, so I don't act on what I feel.😀

[@gk37013]

Perhaps one day you will recover from the brainwashing to which you have been subjected. Good luck.

[@kencoleman5007]

Personally, I ebb and flow in and out of organized religious groups, but while remaining deeply spiritual. I grew up catholic, went to Catholic school from K-12, and went to Catholic services at my university until the death of John Paul II, when I noticed that popes are more elected officials, selected by a closed group of people in power. As I wondered more about selective listening and selective interpretation of what gets viewed as scripture, I asked the campus priest (it was a nonsectarian private school) how a religion that places so much emphasis on the duality of the corporal and the spirit, and sometimes a higher priority on the spirit can be so hung up on who can marry who just because of their physical bodies. He had no answer, and I stopped going to services there. I took up a few forms of meditation, and studied esotericism. I visited a local UU church, and the reverend asked me what I (as a person of Irish descent) thought about the church's namesake stance against Irish immigrants in the 1800's. I took my often-hated stance as natural mediator, and some up him fearing those who were different, and how like in the book "Children of the Atom", you overcome people fearing what they don't understand by creating more transparency, instead of clandestine "safe spaces" where people's honest venting could be compared to Trump's "locker room talk" if the shoe was on the other foot. From my deep connection to the spiritual world and experiences in meditation that were sometimes mind-blowing, the reverend told me that I'm very mystical, but if her church didn't feel right, she'd understand. Me and her church didn't click, but she and I keep in touch. That friend isn't a UU reverend anymore. I then connected with another UU-affiliated church which was more Christian based in doctrine and liturgy. I loved the history in the church, that it was very accepting of followers, questioners, seekers, etc., and I even recorded the sermon videos for the KZbin channel until they started moving away from KZbin and more to emphasizing a Spotify presence. The first associate was this annoyingly sanctimonious guy who (I swear) was probably in the position partly for the position of religious authority and partly for getting to wear a cape. He was very subjective about which extremes he supported, and how even someone who stirred up multiple controversies could be a-OK, if enough identity politics boxes were checked. One day, before midweek worship, I asked him if he had heard about a news crew in Virginia getting killed on live TV as the camera was rolling. Nonchallantly, he was like "Who watches local news anyway nowadays.". Knowing the reverend's political stances, and that the shooter was taking out anger on anyone he viewed as a racist after leaving multiple jobs (where he each worked under different aliases), I'm not sure if this acquaintance had already gotten further information and decided who to side with. When that reverend later moved to Chicago, and was positing on Facebook resentfully about some woman in his yoga class who got a coveted place in the studio instead of him (The nerve!), I responded with "Why is it a reverend who makes yoga a competitive sport?". The next assistant reverend was someone who I connected with more. She had this adorkable streak, I would regularly be the one filming her sermons, and she would then go over the videos like a football coach watching past games. She was the one who I first came out to about feeling that I likely wasn't cisgender. One day, I was on the bus and I saw two POC individuals arguing about trans identity (one an older woman, and one my age, and I assumed MTF). I wasn't sure what to do, because concerned as I was, stepping in could easily turn the dynamic into a race thing, and I could end up all over social media in out-of-context clips. I asked this assistant reverend, what do you do if things could easily get far worse if you step in and try defending the downtrodden (with black and brown being added to the rainbow flag, shouldn't more emphasis be placed in calling out anti-LGBTQ sentiment EVEN IF the aggressor is a person of color? She told me to just ask the person if they're okay in a casual catch-up type of way next time, I see them and not get in the middle of such arguments. I later found out that she had identified as lesbian (and had a labrys tattoo on her arm), and identified as bi since meeting her now-husband. People at the church started asking me to become a member, though I remained moderate when much of the church leadership was radicalizing to the left. She told me that there's still conservatives in the church, which I think more as silent partners since their main impact generally is in giving money to whatever causes church committees want to give to. I felt that "Universalism" in that church's context is more closed than what I believe in since it sticks mainly to Abrahamic beliefs another is in the news and the person writing that week's sermon decides to draw inspiration from their dogma. Me (on the other hand), had been spiritually working with furries, and Light Workers, and members of fetish communities, and any show of their validity in faith went no further some open scripture study discussions. Definitely not meetings at the parish houses, or the quorum style (not blind ballots and campaigning) votes on church leadership. I increasingly felt that to be my authentic self, I didn't fit in at all. Not to mention some sermons passive aggressively condemning anyone who left the church for social political reasons. I got a job working in the medical field (often with prison inmates), and saw just how crooked a past governor's legal decisions could be (when my church's senior reverend loyally stands by her past as his legal consult), and I saw how state and municipality employed members of law enforcement aren't allowed to publicly air their opinions, perspectives, and experiences on social matters without approval from their highest superiors, when people from my church (and the world at large (generally speaking), hungrily ate up any criticism of law enforcement no matter where it came from. One Friday, at one of the most dangerous (even moreso for the staff) prisons in the state, one CO was ambushed in the common area, suffering severe head trauma including a broken jaw, and there were further injuries to the CO's who jumped into the frey to save his life. The story got very little press coverage, and never got mentioned the following Monday when Ayanna Pressley and Ilhan Omar visited a minimal security prison in the same state to make widely broadcast messages for inmates in general to have more advantages while in custody. I put my foot down, and diplomatically tried organizing an opportunity for a real life CO to sit down and have conversations with church leadership. There's an endless parade of anti-law enforcement figures who are referenced in sermons, and sometimes allowed to come in for guest sermons, but the most you hear about law enforcement (those who generally risk their lives on and off duty to protect the public) being broad brushed as the enemy in propaganda comparable to how any non-Jewish German at least half of the 20th Century. Despite my attempts to introduce to church leadership one of the many humans endangering her life for the safety of the commonwealth, my idea was only received with argument and rejection. In other facets of social politics there are influential congregants who can be absolute prigs. One woman wrote on social media about how some white males in their 20's (who she generalized as "college boys", going on nothing but reading the books by their proverbial cover) simply would not vacate a seat for her to sit down. I was like "Did you ask anyone else to get up? Did you even ask these males, or just expect them to pick up on subtle cues of resentment?". An older guy got all bent out of shape when I showed acceptance and acknowledgement of a Brony at the Boston Side Parade, the congregant first mistaking Bronies as a BDSM community, and still defensively clutching his rainbow beads like the proverbial pearl counterpart. Partly with pandemic-time social distancing, and the church I attend feeding on the escalating hyperbole of the Trump era presidency, I started stepping back from this church. I began finding more and more of a connection astrology, gem worship, tarot reading, meditation, manifesting, and maybe even this astrocartography that I've been learning about. I may return back to that church when the pandemic's over, but still while standing by my principals. Dr. Martens juxtaposed with the softness of denim and a lambswool sweater. Opalite in my pocket, a tarot card selected, and practicing freee form meditation on my own after the service as church leadership try drumming up support for their specific crusades. Giving my dollar into the collection plate, but for every other specific cause the church committees may put that dollar for, its a dollar less going to support of the system.

[@thebestwillow]

I think religion and cult have a lot of overlap, and that there's a lot of potential for religious behaviour to slip into cultish behaviour, even maybe without meaning to. For instance, there's making people welcome, which is obviously a good thing to do, but go overboard with that and it could become love-bombing. And where the line is varies depending partly on the experience of it by the recipient.

[@williamclifford2943]

Religion is just more experienced than cults. They have hidden their faults better. My family has always been involved in the church of many denominations. Some were put to death over their roles. My daughter was told she would go to hell for questioning the Bible but when she backed it up with facts was told she was blessed for it. This by the same teacher.

[@Knowledgeisthekeyrp]

Hey girls. I really enjoyed this video. I would love to hear how you dealt with being gay and coming out to family members? And your relationship with religion/a divine/higher being? I go to and LGBT church in the UK and it has been great to have that safe space with the community and worship together. I miss beigg in person with them. Would you ever consider going back to church? Or is it something you have left behind completely. I get it if that's true. Have you read any books on the topic of gay Christianity? There are some good ones. Love to you both. What Taylor swift song will you cover next? :) 💜

[@myrnaminoza1391]

this is just a random question or a mere obsession that you two be together forever, when is the wedding plan!

[@virgilmcclendon5072]

😎😃😊😜😍😘💖

[@alisonlove2784]

People that attempt to convert others to their way of thinking I'd personally say that's a form of brainwashing ❤️

[@alisonlove2784]

@G Bogart thanks for your comment made me laugh...... By the way who's Johnny???

[@gk37013]

@@alisonlove2784 Johnny Olson. Olson was a tv personality in the 1960s and was best known for announcing the prizes for game shows such as To Tell The Truth and What's My Line?

[@alisonlove2784]

@@gk37013 Oh right thanks for telling me that information much appreciated.

[@jaimedarling6716]

Right...

[@thebestwillow]

The altar call at the retreat sounds pretty culty to me. it's about social approval and conformity.

[@thebestwillow]

Anyone who teaches Christianity is about getting into heaven by doing things is either mistaken or lying. The Bible specifically says that the ONLY way into heaven is by accepting that we do bad stuff, and claiming that we no longer have to pay for the bad stuff we do because of Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection. It specifically says that we can't get into heaven through works.

[@AdamFlanagan]

Jesus was not a Christian, Muhammad was not a Muslim, Buddha was not a Buddhist. They tried to teach love through actions and words. To unite and include all people. It was others who came along later and used these truth's to lace lies in order to sell a salvation through an external component (church's, temple's, mosque's). These people were motivated by greed and control. True salvation is an individual journey which can take many forms. I'm an atheist of sorts. I'm not a good person because I want to win a seat in heaven. I do it because I feel empathy and compassion for others, two traits that developed naturally through an evolutionary process for survival.

[@meghansmith7884]

Ur both stunning wow, lets hold hands under rainbows lol hahhaahah. Sorry im weird...Meow

[@HedleyHelmet]

So the deity that created all known things in the universe, has (supposed) complete control of everyone and everything, BUT gave us humans free will (to be heterosexual/homosexual?) is the same deity that is either going to punish us by burning in hell for all eternity or grant us a ticket to an everlasting party based on our actions during our life's campaign? Sounds like a con job.