Our Worst Fears Have Been Confirmed || Lee Furney || Survivor of Jonathan Fletcher Abuse Scandal

[@philippajoy4300]

What a brave man. This has touched on some difficult issues for me.

[@saschaspring2198]

Heart breaking, truly. I applaud your courage, strength, and pray for tender mercies....

[@biljanakocanovic6778]

Thank you!!! Regards from Serbia!!!

[@chrissimmons4502]

I’ve been a Vineyard pastor in the Uk and part of the denomination for thirty years. I have just left and can speak more openly - speaking within it made no difference. The similarities are palpable - the abuse from the top, the systemic culture of intimidation and fear, the grooming of an organisation by one or two individuals, no one to turn to. Thank you for speaking out and speaking with love wanting restoration for all - well done 👍

[@williewiner4161]

Lee and Glen thank you gentlemen for standing up for the truth of Christ and his Church. God bless your faithfulness to him.

[@nbhamilt]

Thank you Lee for sharing your story and I am so sorry for what you and so many have endured. I pray for you all. And thank you Glen for arranging this. It is humbling as I know too well how many of us want to get our own way and can react badly when we don't, I echo your words in admitting that of myself and am challenged to reflect on it. I praise God for older wise and godly people in the church where I serve who help me to remain collaberative. COVID 19 has made is especially hard as decisions are often taken on very short notice.

[@jeffreyevans2525]

Thank you for this excellent interview. So well articulated and genuinely we,as church,need to listen carefully to what happened here. Truth must come out to ever hope to restore trust. Repentance,not excuses. We really need to deal radically with toxic culture in our churches. Pause,reflect,accept responsibility and ask for forgiveness. Let us develop a Grace culture that creates courage to address any and all abuse. Lead like Jesus and only like Jesus. Thanks Lee.

[@CalvinCheah]

Thank you, Glen, for asking these questions. And thank you so much, Lee, for your gracious answers. Lee, I am so sorry for what has happened to you. And to victims watching/reading this, I sincerely apologise for the abuse and unloving way you have been treated. Thank you for opening our eyes to our mistakes, our sinfulness and our blindness.

[@davidevens2147]

Glen, thank you so much for the difficult work you're doing at the moment. It's invaluable to shine light on these these things.

[@SpeakLifeMedia]

You're very welcome

[@IsaacSimmonds]

Thank you for this interview Glen. It is so important that we all prayfully reflect on this and have the courage to speak up when we spot signs of abuse. Its hard but we can't let this happen because of a misplaced "loyalty" in a pastor instead of Christ.

[@karenkelman5453]

Incredibly powerful and important account. Like the Lori Anne Thompson interview - it is the survivors who have done the hard work, walked the wilderness of trauma and it is them that truly understand the complex nature of abuse. Incredible strong people. Listening to them and learning is the most important thing the church can do. Well done Glen for insisting on giving survivors the platform. Hearing accounts like this is like being breathed back to life. Thank you all.

[@SpeakLifeMedia]

Thanks Karen.

[@chrissimmons4502]

I’ve been a Vineyard pastor in the Uk and part of the denomination for thirty years. I have just left and can speak more openly - speaking within it made no difference. The similarities are palpable - the abuse from the top, the systemic culture of intimidation and fear, the grooming of an organisation by one or two individuals, no one to turn to. Thank you for speaking out and speaking with love wanting restoration for all - well done 👍

[@creativereindeer]

Thank you so much for this Glen and Lee. Hugely valuable. Thank you. Appreciate the comment about taking the full course of antibiotics as it were. Thank you.

[@Neil.Swinnerton]

Thank you for this open and honest account of abuse and grooming. It tallies only too well with the secular literature I have read on abusive relationships. I hope that more people in the wider church will sit up and take serious note, and then take action to ensure that it cannot happen again. It is a tragedy when such serious sinfulness is found anywhere, even more so in the context of the church's ministry.

[@juliaevetts2675]

Thank you for talking about ALL of the issues mentioned here so well. 'Root and branch change'....

[@Chris5337]

Very brave and Christlike, bringing things into the light with a view to restoration. Feeling so furious and sad listening to this though. Reformation is needed.

[@MatthewJohnCrittenden]

A brave man to speak up. I have similar tales to tell from my time at a Grammar school. I wasn’t directly affected but the abuse of power was real there also.

[@wisdomforwellness5509]

Abuse in the church is very complex because often church is seen by its members as a family. Therefore, with reporting things the line between professionalism and love and loyalty are a bit blurred. Also I often see an issue with favouritism towards leaders that creates protection around the perpertrator and stops them being accountable. I really don't know how we can address some of these systemic issues....but talking about them helps! Thanks for doing this interview. It is vital.

[@Bryndezy]

The systemic issues will be corrected only as individual Christians stand up straight before God (instead of leaning into men/ women), listen to His voice and obey Him. Just as Lee said.

[@tomobrien5795]

One is reminded of the scripture: ‘the fear of man brings a snare’. This snare allowed Fletcher to basically get away with abuse. A salutary lesson that we should fear God, and him alone.

[@janescarborough5427]

Thank you Lee and Glen. Very difficult, but important to listen to. What great humility in your words of restoration Lee. Glorifying God. Thinking of 2 Peter and the wolves within the church. Power, greed, sex. Victims were caught in spiritual warfare. May the Lord continue to expose all darkness within the body of Christ with the Spirit of Truth. Mountains will crumble and fall. God bless and fully restore you all, in Jesus Name. Amen.

[@nathanv247]

Thank you Lee for this level of honesty. Absolutely terrible and heartbreaking. The Anglican CE fold needs a serious and deep look into leadership culture/structures. The disrepute on the Gospel and the damage to potential future victims is too great to not do this work. EMA’s public statements have had some level of inconsistency to say the least, with some at the top saying they didn’t know about JF until 2019 when his licence was removed in 2017.

[@galacticecho7027]

Sounds very similar to my experience being an intern at the church I grew up in. I was resistant enough that if there was sexual abuse going on, I never experienced it. But, I can say that sexual abuse matters within the congregation were not handled well if at all. But, while the tactics didn't have the same names; I know the Cubicle and Crucible all too well.....EDIT: Oh, yeah the "All other churches are apostate." Argument! Man that one is probably one of the worst...

[@taoeandk]

Repentance can lead to healing, what happened there is an atrocity, I am grieved by the way the church does these things. The church is supposed to be a safe place that is relational and not performance-based. Thank you for this video Glen.

[@SpeakLifeMedia]

Thanks Kenneth

[@megaloschemos9113]

This is horrific. I have never heard of this minister or church although I do know Wimbledon as I have friends who go to other churches near the station. I hope he gets criminally charged and is held to account. How was he allowed to behave like this for so long?

[@lookingforlightandhope2191]

Yes criminal charge is definitely needed. No more I am sorry and I repented lies.

[@angelakatsapas7894]

Yes, criminally charged and sentenced.

[@ETUMusic]

I've been reading 'The Divine Conspiracy' by Dallas Willard, and he references (in a totally different context) this nugget of wisdom in mid-90s management circles: 'Your system is perfectly designed to yield the result you are getting.' I couldn't help but read it in the light of this scandal. Hoping and praying for healthy, humble reform in the whole conservative evangelical wing of the C of E. Edit: Of course, lots of good results have been yielded by the same system, but none of our good results would be jeopardised by eliminating the aspects that make events like these possible, and we need to remember that.

[@Rhuanjl]

One thought I had is that it's a case of missing ingredients - there is value to the "military training" angle of a church (hence the documented good results) BUT on it's own it's horribly imbalanced as was described here - churches need to be hospitals too - AND - they need to have balanced leadership not one unchecked man at the top.

[@SpeakLifeMedia]

Yes that is a sobering quote I return to often as regards systemic sin!

[@prob316]

Helpful warning, Lee.

[@simkwakia]

How pervasive is this in the Church Kingdom in UK? Abuse of power is subtle and invisible. That is why it goes on in different shape or form and difficult to discern. People do not speak out because they do not want to be seen to sow discord and disunity. What Jeremiah said in 17:9 is so relevant. Lee Furney speaks of restoration but there is also responsibility and therefore accountability.

[@julieblarasin4999]

Heartbreaking. How must our Father reel from such horrific misuse of position for worldly torture. I pray that God's grace and mercy holds each one of these victims, to be bold, true to themselves and honest with their Lord.

[@DigitalGnosis]

This is really horrible, Im glad Lee is able to talk about it like this now! I wonder if the church had a healthier view of homosexuality whether this guy would have been as pathological as he was? He seems to also have been a narcissist though!

[@andrewchard9427]

Great interview and God glorifying - thanks a lot. Andrew

[@jonathanredden2483]

Hospital departments particularly in surgery tend to have a military atmosphere. This may be a good thing if associated with kindness, appreciation and affirmation.. Blessings from a retired orthopaedic surgeon.

[@vbee75]

So some of this bullying was in front of people, and yet they did nothing and advised Lee to stay quiet. Can someone explain how Christians can turn a blind eye to abusive behaviour and even collude with it, and not realise they are doing something wrong that could keep them out of heaven? Do they think that as long as the good outweighs the bad in their life they are going to be fine? Or do they think that as Christians they can sin and it doesn't matter because it's all covered by Christ's death on the cross? Or could it be, that actually they don't see the bullying and demeaning of individuals as wrong, or doing nothing about it is not wrong? Jesus tells us to shine our light before others, doing nothing isn't just a missed opportunity to shine our light, it puts our Father in heaven in a questionable light. ("Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." Matthew 5:16) Humanity is in a sorry state if people haven't even learnt right from wrong yet. We have work to do if we want to go to heaven, we are to become perfect "even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect" (Matthew 5:48). To be perfect requires doing work on ourselves. The fact that we're all sinners, and have a sinful nature, doesn't mean that God excuses our behaviour and doesn't expect much else from us except our belief in him. Just because a task looks hard, or even near impossible, doesn't mean you don't bother trying. God expects a lot from us, and we can't get out of it, so the sooner we make a start, the better.

[@julieblarasin4999]

The fallibility of humanity in their brokenness often allows those with worldly charisma to groom and yield power over people who have unknown vulnerabilities. This is the fracture of human relationships that the Gospel is meant to address, yet sadly it is often the point that is lost in church business, organisation and leadership. But you're spot on - we need to be vigilant for each other, bold in our witness within our church communities and vulnerable individually to the weak and strong message of Paul's epistles. God bless you.

[@petermillist3779]

You’re left with a fundamental question - was he truly born again?

[@angelanowak5448]

Unimaginable.

[@jamesbenjamim2864]

Absolutely

[@DK-oy6ee]

In the book Bleeding for Jesus, page 202, it says ‘research tells us that the vast majority of sex offenders describe themselves as religious or very religious and that the very religious have the highest number of victims, the youngest victims and commit the most egregious crime’. That’s dynamite. But does anyone have reference for the original research papers?

[@jochannan7379]

Has there been any response by Fletcher himself? I understand he is still alive.

[@chrisbronson5341]

Did they take videos ?

[@juliebrownlie5330]

Lessons learned. Behave. That means fkn nothing.

[@campbellpaget453]

What I fail to understand is the lengths to which people went to defend him and were in denial about the facts. 'Cult' seems the only appropriate word. I met and disagreed with him once over an interpretation of a passage at a one-off bible study day: he then refused to speak to me. I left unimpressed but, knowing then none of the background, simply thought he was another arrogant and conceited public school boy who could not accept that he might be wrong. Will people please stop making excuses for him; as Jesus said, 'Satan can appear as an angel of light': he was not just 'a flawed individual'; far from it.

[@karenessauthor]

Loyalty = unity. False concept of Unity frequenty used in abuse situations.

[@freddavis976]

You mention the church often and never mention Satan. Good Job!! Your father will be proud.

[@angelanowak5448]

Satan can’t be blamed for everything. Our own depravity runs deep.

[@freddavis976]

@@angelanowak5448 True, after all, how depraved does someone have to be to join the church just to get access to little boys. My point is that in this video Satan isn't blamed for anything.

[@petethorne5094]

Adam was punished for Adam’s sin, not Satan’s. Jesus was very happy to criticise the church at times. Read the letters in Revelation.

[@freddavis976]

@@petethorne5094 In the story of Adam's sin, Satan receives prominent mention, not so in this broadcast. I use imprecise language more often than I like. I assume that you, like me, are being imprecise when you say Jesus was "very happy". The church cannot read. So, the letters are to the congregation. Your analogy runs thin if are saying the entire congregation was lusting after boy genitals. If you are limiting the "church" to Furney, the other clergy in training, and the elders who bowed to the evil in Fletcher in order to advance their careers, then you have a point. Rereading the letters in Revelation is good advice. Thank you.

[@petethorne5094]

@@freddavis976 well actually Satan is not mentioned once. There was a “snake” however