The Dark Cost of Electric Cars

[@OurChangingClimate]

🍂 What's your vision for a zero-carbon world? 🔗Get 40% of Nebula and support OCC using this link: go.nebula.tv/occ 🎥 Watch Polymatter's exclusive series on China: nebula.tv/videos/polymatter-chinas-rare-earth-dominance?ref=occ

[@MK-ps3cw]

Why didn’t you mention LFP (cobalt-free batteries used in modern EVs)?

[@brodiehunter1929]

@@MK-ps3cw because lithium has the same problems

[@bartroberts1514]

Zero-carbon world? Curtail the fossil carbon extraction to zero over time, by 2030 the democracy of the Market will deliver its vision: To avoid increased famine, farm failure, fire-promoting weather, and flooding: 1. Curtail fossil (carbon from the ground in the form of coal, hydrocarbons and limestone) by a fraction of the total being extracted down to zero by 2030. 2. Prioritize reducing methane emissions of all kinds, especially from fossil, replacing fossil extracts with biomethane and harvesting wood before it decays. 3. As soon as alternatives to fossil-based energy generation, transportation and manufacture are available and economical replace all the fossil we can with them and shut down the fossil-based activities. 4. Drawdown CO2 from the atmosphere by the only two legitimate, economical methods available: photosynthesis and weathering of basalt fines. 5. Increase conservation of wildlife, especially aquatic life mainly by reducing ship traffic 40%. 6. Increase energy efficiency 8% year over year. Individual consumer action in no nation accounts for more than 25% of fossil emissions; action by business, institutions and governments are responsible for essentially all climate change famine, farm failure, fire-promoting weather and flooding.

[@kalmmonke5037]

​ how about a tax on battery mass, overall weight, height width, ground clearance (except for heavy carry load work vehicals) and other stuff that cant be recycled. (a tall cars crash damage reduction structure is low to ground, but it eleveated at level of shorter car whos structure is lower to ground, taller car is at some advantage because if both cars occupants get touches, the people in shorter car will be touched more).. small part of battery has dendrite forming battery degradation which apprently cant eb recycled, and whatever can be isnt being recycled ... they proabbly will recycle non rusted broken junkyard cars, so all the new cars and whatever emissions and resources they ccosted, probably wont get that fix. a variable fuel type small combustion electric assisted turbo , especially of no spinning parts, could be paired to hydraulic regen braking and compressed air, probably with some super capacitor assistance and even battery assistance, but itd be lot less battery mass. electric battery stored regen braking energy can be avoided for longveity of battery. the combustion system could be a single combustion chamber with hydrallic switch and harm to place the piston back into position for the combustion to push to create energy.this is similar to electric linear acuaator. supposedly, hydrogen can be combusted with only water as emission if combustion isnt too hot, also see efuel, biofuel diesel , regenerative abiotic creation of natural oil from which petrol is made of, the possibility of hydrogen electric being swapped in, etc. mahle talked about a non magnet, coil based recyclable electric motor, but its less torque so it needs transmission. because combustion system is much smaller and efficient and low emissions, it maybe better than a toyota prius with same emissions perfect turbo system, despite a bigger battery per vehicle ............. could also have the benefits of rear wheel drive rear mid engine sport car weight distribution, which in terms of preserving momentum around turns by less weight leaning toward the front under braking and turning, so grip work is divided across all tires more, so more grip can happen. thsi also helps and speeding around a turn if wanted. a dial for reduced power steering would allow a better feel for how close to grip limit car is, without a stiff bumpy ride from trying to give that feelign through the seats for all people in the car, and its fun similar to lotus elise , or maybe gmat43. ................................... about emissions, the predictions are so wrong that their models are obviously, wrong, theres lot of disagreement about weatehr changing etc, suspicious observers, tony heller,tom nelson "why you should be a climate skeptic" and some others have their ideas but to me, i think its worse for peoples biology for people often living near especially slow moving cars a lot. smoking ciggarate fumes at your face was not identiftified as harmful until after natural fats with seed oils, margarine etc, was normalized... thats before considering sleep, excersize, stress, etc. so how harmful is it really? not very much, but defintly nice to have less of it.tire and brake wear supposedly is toxic too, like the suppsoed endocrine disrupting microplastics, etc. theoretically, we could go back to using natural rubber from trees (instead of the normal hamrful petrol plastic like tires), if we consume less tires and if cars ae less weight and or we drive slower. more weight and torque and braking causes more road damage which costs money resources emissions, road downtimes etc, a heavier car moving toward a car to crash it, is going ti hit it with more damaging energy than a car of less weight, it takes more structural strength mass and money to make heavier car safer. height of car shoud also be taxed, because its less crash safe to cars who are sitting lower with less protection compared to the higher cars structural strong heavy mass being closeer to the weaker upper part of the lower car and aerodynamically energy effceint. the rear seat could face the rear as a compact 4 seater , where if more is needed, he can rent a van or whatever. he can do a little towing and with a suspension lifter and lowering system, old people could get objects and theirself into car with less join pain etc, so they dont instead move to suv cars, and thsi could also allow light offroading for parks, parking on grass including loose moisture soil where heavy cars would get stuck, etc. so overall, emissions, weight, costs, and driving boredom, would be lowest and car would be ready for a system update. theoretically, renting out a car instead of selling would allow high budget build that wil last as logn as possible, where costs are divded across different renters, with software can lower rent costs for less driving, effceint driving etc. but this could be used to take away the car or delete a person by software because its microphone or gps detected that you did something they dont like, wether it be a new secret blagrog ESG score complaince thing, or a more local troublemaker. check out ulev cameras in the name of emissions, which are tracking devices to control people, etc. youll stay abused by a state in taxes or whatever, if you can escape it.check out ulez 15 minute cities richard vobes

[@bartroberts1514]

@@brodiehunter1929 There are children dying in the bottom of lithium mines too!? *SHOCKING* How about the sodium batteries replacing lithium? Are children dying in the bottom of African sodium mines? By the way, those mines predate solar panels and lithium batteries, and their primary use is in the fossil sector in refineries and ICEs.

[@lars_larsen]

Strange how, no matter the technological solutions we come up with, there seems to always be severe ethical and environmental consequences of its mass production that someone tries to get everyone to ignore just so they can earn more money.

[@elviahernandez5170]

Yeah, I agree @lars_larsen. This video reminds me of the Degrowth video (by: Our Changing Climate) from last year. It seems that mass production of the tech goods in a capitalist system only lead to pain for those in the bottom rungs of society.

[@fetB]

whats strange about it? Its called capitalism

[@fetB]

@Dj Tenders Why not? Its not even like this is just a current issue. The whole notion of large scale batteries has been undermined ever since the oil crisis of the 70's for profit by the fossile fuel industry. Thats capitalism for you because theres nothing in the rule book that says, do better.

[@83j049733rfe4]

@Dj Tenders After the horror of the cultural revolution, and after what few experiments in democracy led to Tiananmen Square, China had nothing else to believe in. Apart from Money. Money has become so much of the very Core of China's Conscience, there is as much thought of communist in it's head as there was for decency in Hitler's Germany. An afterthought, at best. An excuse to shield the reality of action. It is so much in service (and servitude) to capitalist principles it may as well be America or Russia.

[@newscoulomb3705]

@Dj Tenders China is the largest electric car market in the world, but their EVs primarily use batteries that do not use cobalt.

[@cubearthx]

This is a story that is so common across Africa. In the end, you get a broken people governing a broken state while the world looks in condemnation at another failed state.

[@elviahernandez5170]

SMH, why is this so accurate 😭

[@jns6320]

There are very few broken states today, other than one's undergoing civil war or intense natural disaster. Many of the resource rich nations in Africa are ruled by comprador capitalists, who sell off their nation's resources to imperialists in the West. The system is working exactly is intended, where the west extracts super profits from the global south with the aid of local collaborators. Basically, neo-colonialism. The idea that the system is "broken" and needs to be "fixed" is a liberal outlook which believes that capitalism can actually work. But capitalism leads to imperialism and the only solution is complete dismantling.

[@cubearthx]

@@jns6320 I wholly agree with you expect for a few definitions but anyone that agrees the entire system needs to be burn down is way more more right that wrong! This system benefits minorities at the cost of the majorities.

[@bratindustries]

one thing that wasn't noted is the use of colbalt in oil refineries. its a massively under covered topic, which i believe is misleading the path to renewables.

[@boatthere867]

this people

[@toyotaprius79]

🔥🔥🔥

[@toyotaprius79]

It's used to make sulphur free fuel.

[@toyotaprius79]

And all that cobalt is consumed and demanded far more by oil refining. It's left as industrial waste afterwards. It can be recovered/recycled.

[@chidorirasenganz]

@@303Scott not really as most EV batteries don’t require cobalt. Most made now and in the future will be LFP batteries

[@pianosopher]

Probably the most underdiscussed aspect of transitioning from fossil fuels. People sometimes forget the infinite growth myth applies to renewables too. Renewables are a better option, but degrowth is necessary for a sustainable future

[@michaelrch]

even less discussed is that refining gasoline uses MORE cobalt than battery production - in fact more than anything And it is CONSUMED in the process. whereas batteries are recycled

[@jakequinn31]

So, we keep using petrol because batteries are bad?

[@icantaimpg3d776]

@@jakequinn31 he doesn’t mean that, he means that renewable must go with degrowth

[@rockfire1669]

@@jakequinn31 Electric cars won’t change anything because it is still a car.

[@monalizzy]

Absolutely!!! The earth is a finite resource. People seem to forget that?

[@clover7359]

It's super important for people to realize that we can't consume our way out of the mess we're in. Electric cars are fine, and they have great use cases, but they're far from a solution to anything. Degrowth is much more realistic at solving our climate and environment problems. Unfortunately, that's a very painful pill to swallow, and degrowth itself will probably be even more painful. It'll happen sooner or later, because things are not sustainable right now and things will eventually change.

[@nunofoo8620]

I usually say this: Voluntary degrowth can even potentially bring us a better world if done right. Involuntary degrowth imposed on us by the realities and circumstances of resource depletion and environmental damage will be brutal, chaotic and violent. If we can't make the choice of the former right now we will inevitably get the latter.

[@YounesLayachi]

"cars are fine" No they're not. Cars and asphalt are the devil. We need public transit , which is 100% electric without batteries, and highly efficient. We need cycling, which is free daily exercise, and does not destroy roads.

[@vappyreon1176]

​@@nunofoo8620 yeah..

[@GetFochD]

​@@YounesLayachi Infuckingdeed you're speaking fects

[@mojrimibnharb4584]

The answer is public transportation.

[@dada210]

“Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience. Our problem is that people all over the world have obeyed the dictates of leaders…and millions have been killed because of this obedience…Our problem is that people are obedient allover the world in the face of poverty and starvation and stupidity, and war, and cruelty. Our problem is that people are obedient while the jails are full of petty thieves… (and) the grand thieves are running the country. That’s our problem.” ― Howard Zinn

[@user-gu9yq5sj7c]

Look at the comments on the Night of the Consumers gameplay. Some customers bully workers to overwork for them too. Some environmentalists bully people to produce solar panels for them. Even if the workers or miners might be mistreated.

[@rampantmutt9119]

As always changing our infrastructure to favour walking, cycling, and public transport is a must.

[@takumu781]

its not only a must but its also extremely comfortable and more safe. which makes it even more of a must do.

[@turtleanton6539]

Yes 😊😊😊

[@railroadforest30]

Facts

[@reyalsregnava]

Well, the first rule of capital is "whomever is most capable of evil, profits the most"

[@user-gu9yq5sj7c]

That's not a rule in capitalism. Some people chose to be evil. There's corruption in everything. Does that make everything bad? Some people chose to normalize some evils, like now slavery was normalized once. Even if there was no money, some people would still be greedy over resources, and demand people overwork for them so they can have things. Like solar panels. Look at the comments on the Night of the Consumers gameplay. Some customers bully workers to overwork for them too. Then some people only fault bosses, and don't look at themselves treating workers the same as customers. That's double standards. I saw socialists demanding people work for them too. Like some comments on women on Second Thought's video on feminism. Even some socialist like capitalism.

[@altrag]

@@user-gu9yq5sj7c > That's not a rule in capitalism Its kind of a rule in capitalism, but I'd say its a little misphrased. It should be more along the lines of "whomever is most capable of _hiding_ evil, profits the most". Capitalism's protection against evil is that buyers have "full knowledge" of their purchase and that they will refuse to buy anything that isn't ethically sourced - that is, they don't just _consent_ to the transaction but can provide _informed consent._ That is rarely as possible in the large and complex world as it is in the 2-person, 2-product toy world of introductory economics textbooks and evil people can (and often do) fill that gap whenever they can find a way to induce uninformed consent during their transactions. (Of course if buyers don't refuse to purchase unethical products, that's even better for evil people. Its not like people in the 1700s US didn't know the source of the cotton their new shirt was made of, for example.) Capitalist entities do not care whether they're "good" or "evil". They care about being profitable. If being good is more profitable, they will happily be good. If being evil is more profitable, they will be evil just as happily.

[@infidelheretic923]

That appears to be true of communism as well if history is anything to go by.

[@reyalsregnava]

@@infidelheretic923 I won't defend communism, it fell in the pit because "greater good" can justify anything. I will argue that capitalism is worse, because it took *much* longer to identify the harm, and the scale and reach is so much more vast. Communism got some 6 million killed. Capitalism kills around 200k/year just in the oil industry. We're likely going to discover that the capitalist owners were netting between 2 and 4 million deaths a year, since 1890.

[@tabularasa0606]

@@infidelheretic923 It is not, there is no profit in communism. You confuse communism with state capitalism.

[@SvalbardSleeperDistrict]

You and Second Thought are such important channels on YT.

[@robertwelch2843]

​@Ghost of George Floyd why do u hate yourself?

[@cmbells7736]

@Ghost of George Floyd please explain in a little more detail what you mean exactly?.

[@Planet.Xplor3r]

@Ghost of George Floyd Did you mean to refer to capitalist media instead? Seems much more appropriate there.

[@andrasbiro3007]

@@cmbells7736 In reality most EV batteries today are 100% Cobalt-free. And the rest mainly uses recycled Cobalt from old batteries. And the little still mined doesn't come from the DRC, manufacturers are very careful about that. The Cobalt from the DRC goes into oil refineries and phone batteries.

[@LexYeen]

​@@andrasbiro3007source, please.

[@toyotaprius79]

Don't forget, cobalt has long been used to scrub sulpher out of oil refining for batteries cobalt was mostly used in mobile phone batteries since the early 2000s to create a stable net for lithium ions flowing through the cell. That became the industrial norm adopted by electric car batteries, which engineers found out to not be necessary as EVs arent as stressful than mobile phones and it took iver a decade to develop batteries without cobalt, or even lithium... Too little too late it seems

[@een_schildpad]

The only thing electric cars save are the car companies; they just aren't a scalable solution. Like was mentioned, we need fewer cars, not electric cars. We need to optimize for walking, biking, and public transit.

[@turtleanton6539]

It is true

[@railroadforest30]

Exactly

[@sub8g]

The idea of EVs just perpetuates our pattern and demand for personal mobility, when what we should really be focusing on is developing close-knit urban areas and public transit systems. Techno-optimism is good, but at some point it has to come up against fundamental constraints.

[@user-gu9yq5sj7c]

Doesn't redesigning cities and building transit require lots of materials too like this video? Workers and miners building what you want can be mistreated too. And I do agree with Not Just Bikes that there needs to be more diverse kinds of cites and transportation.

[@sub8g]

What you say is indeed true. Whatever be the future, we definitely require a lot of materials. My point is that, those materials (and the money and talent) would be better spent on urban development and public transport, not EVs.

[@altrag]

No, what we should be doing is both. Personal vehicles are not going away any time soon. Public transportation can never cover 100% of all possible trips people will want to take, never mind the people who just like going for a drive. We need to reduce the _usage_ of personal vehicles, absolutely. But we also need to recognize that "reduce" is not "nullify", and when those vehicles are required we need them to be EVs (powered by a renewables-based grid) or similar clean solutions.

[@sub8g]

​@@altrag Yes I agree. EVs are undoubtedly better than ICE vehicles. Just that EVs should not be more than mere stopgaps.

[@kenlydon1395]

@@sub8g You are right if cities and urban areas where designed for better public transport and higher density, many people would not need a car . Electric cars are very problematic and a bad idea , as you say it would be better to reduce car usage overall, regardless of the power source.

[@holleey]

this has little to do with electric cars specifically though. the issue is that the system allows workers in Africa to be exploited to this extreme degree. if it weren't cobalt, then the workers would simply be exploited for something else. making it about a technology is misguiding.

[@elviahernandez5170]

Like before Cobalt, it was Rubber. Or if it's not Cobalt, it's Copper. Yeah, I can see how it is a deeper problem than just artisanal Cobalt mining.

[@user-gu9yq5sj7c]

Yeah. Sorry for bringing this up, but it's like how socialism is exploitative too. Even if money didn't exist, people would still exploit people in other things. Such as resources, attention, time, with relationships, and demanding others overwork to product for them. And even if they were mistreated like in this video. People do that now. Such as some environmentalists bullying people to produce things like solar panels for them. Even if those miners and workers were mistreated.

[@loganwashere24]

Use any other metal. Lithium, copper, chromium, uranium, nickel. The story is the same

[@Nphen]

He got through the whole video and never actually questioned capitalism? This is why "Radical liberals" never get anything done. They just complain about something they don't really know about (like cobalt, which is no longer being used in most EV batteries) and then miss the entire point that colonialism & exploitation all come from capitalism and the endless quest for profit and domination over humans & the biosphere.

[@Nowhere-from]

No, it's not misleading as none of today's technologies would exist without the background of colonialism. What is misleading is most western people's claim that technologies and imperialist exploitation are separate issues. Some claim that the West was already moving forward with technologies, like rifles and guns, along with financial centers like Florence, everything before colonialism. But without the rise of colonialism all that European "progress" was heading to the same dead end China has stumbled upon several times in its history. Just keep in mind that all of today's smug nations in central and northern Europe were perfect 3rd world back then, late 1400's, and it took like three long centuries for the industrial revolution to begin. Germany and almost all neighbors (except France) took about another two centuries to become industrial! When colonialism was well advanced by Spain, the 1500's, the top tech pioneer nation, England, was no different from Colombia. England's fortune starting from piracy into Spanish colonies (thieves stealing from thieves). In China, the British ran a cartel like the Mexicans and Colombians have never been close to, and stole Hong Kong in the meantime.

[@geode9512]

It’s problematic to maintain an insane standard of living while being ‘eco friendly’. Those workers have the most minuscule carbon footprints and have a much lower standard of living are forced to work in horrible conditions just to survive. We have enough resources for everyone to live a comfortable.

[@ozbullymorales1020]

But people don’t want comfortable, they want luxury.

[@vappyreon1176]

​@@ozbullymorales1020 I *need* a $3500 headset with a $8000 computer and a $300000 car guys... Can I have another million for investing in the stock market? /s

[@mojrimibnharb4584]

That's not "problematic" it's just wrong.

[@adoe2305]

We have enough resources for everybody to live comfortably? And how many resources is that? Can everyone own their own Tesla?

[@adoe2305]

​@@ozbullymorales1020 like that luxurious computer you used to watch and comment.

[@newscoulomb3705]

The amount of cobalt being used in batteries (for EVs, grid storage, mobile devices, etc.) is on the decline despite our global battery production increasing because newer battery technologies are less reliant on cobalt (and many newer chemistries omit cobalt completely). The reality is, modern internal combustion vehicles are even more reliant on cobalt than electric vehicles due to cobalt's use in onboard electronics and the desulfurization of oils used to produce fossil fuels. Essentially, if cobalt mining (for both environmental and humanitarian reasons) is your primary concern, you would still choose an EV over a fossil car. That is, if you required personal transportation. Obviously, the best choice would accessible, widespread public transportation, but that's still beyond the pale for most American consumers.

[@newscoulomb3705]

@@MintyJazz3 If possible, that would be ideal. For some, that's not really an option. Realistically, it's mostly rural folk who can't do that, but they are such a small percentage of the population that they only represent a small fraction of individual car ownership.

[@perdst]

Totally agree and completely factual. 👍

[@valoriethechemist]

No. If Cobalt is a concern the alternative is neither vehicle works. Cobalt is ONE element needed. There’s so many other elements and needed materials that ANY vehicle we make must be considered extremely valuable and extremely costly and exploitative to the environment and people working to create them. So much so that the only thing we should be doing is changing our societies to entirely eliminate personal vehicles and the need for grand scale transportation.

[@bingosunnoon9341]

Metal working requires huge quantities of cobalt, molybdenum and tungsten for cutting tools. Nothing about making cars of any variety is sustainable.

[@snooopledinkeroo]

On a slight decline from doubling over and over is irrelevant when currently, right now people and children are being overworked having to mine this. You are basically doin the same as these companies trying to make it seem okay because it’s “declining” when this is a real problem rn.

[@dada210]

“Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress.” ― Frederick Douglass

[@user-gu9yq5sj7c]

It's not just people or CEOs demanding money. Regular people demand things like cobalt to make their products too. Look at the comments on the Night of the Consumers gameplay. Some customers bully workers to overwork for them too. Some environmentalist bully people to produce solar panels for them. Even if the workers or miners are mistreated.

[@NothingXemnas]

​@@user-gu9yq5sj7c Bottom line, humans are naturally exploitative and exploitable. Whichever path we took, historically, there was always a group being exploited. I hope for the day humanity is finally self aware, but it is already exhausting to any individual, it is absurd to expect the same for, now, 8 billion people.

[@holleey]

@@NothingXemnas no necessarily. the one thing we can say for sure about the nature of humanity is that we are social animals. we build and operate in social frameworks - the things we call culture and society. it just so happens that those frameworks almost always incentivised exploitation of some kind (perhaps generally due to some scarcity of one or several essential resources), and so that was always the direction we moved in over time. I argue that under a framework which does not incentivise exploitation, humans would not be driven to do so, and so it would be exceedingly rare.

[@NothingXemnas]

@@holleey I'd still argue that even in a system that wouldn't encourage such kind of tactic, people would still attempt to do so. Mind you, exploitative people are already the minority, but its effects are lingering and deep. It takes one assassin to change a community's lifestyle and view of the world. Exceedingly rare as it may be, you'd still need to find a way to completely remove people with absurdly resilient mindsets, as are sociopaths, narcissists and psychopaths, who REALLY WOULD CARE ANY LESS for which system they are in. Again, I still think the only solution, if any, might be so alien and inhuman that we simply wouldn't like it.

[@sprockkets]

@@holleey Even the US decided (by force mind you) that slavery was bad (except the south and FL of course). That's not the point. No one actually ended slavery world wide - it just changed form and was outsourced. And there is nothing you as consumers can do about it.

[@gabor6259]

Please never stop exposing evil.

[@T_Dot94]

giving a broad history of things really helps to put this video in perspective. Well done!

[@JulesJYT]

As soon as I saw this on nebula I've been waiting to see it on YT as well. Absolutely love all the additional/early content on Nebula, but yt is easier to share still unfortunately. I know you were gonna do it anyway, but thank you so much for cross posting!

[@bulatdavlet5141]

It's not dark story about electro cars, it's truth about slavery conditions in Africa.

[@KevinFeeley_KHF]

At the end of the day any value extraction process is, at the core, a form of slavery.

[@m998hmmwv7]

You need to work in the mines.

[@DragonwolfoftheSands]

Think for maybe two seconds about why those conditions exist and why they persist. If you're having trouble an extremely brief look into the history of DR Congo. You can even skip the Belgium section if you're a colonialism apologist and start from independence.

[@AleksworxFPV]

Critical thinkers that see through bs, are rare. Keep opening peoples minds

[@mcboat3467]

Capitalism*

[@Avanguard4128]

“Your strength is just an accident owed to the weakness of others.” Joseph Conrad, _Heart of Darkness_

[@P.I.P.E.L.I.N.E_Podcast]

EVs require cobalt for batteries which are mined by men, women, and children in inhumane conditions. EVs also still require road infrastructure which is the type that requires the most maintenance trains need to take over (this is what I know before watching this video btw)

[@michaelrch]

EVs dont require cobalt for batteries. Most manufacturers choose to use it but there are several battery chemistries being used at scale that dont use cobalt - eg LFP

[@Resistor-u7e]

Need metal to build cars

[@jamesgrover2005]

Firstly I'm on the same page, I live near a metropolis with great bike/bus/tram/train infrastructure. For this you need everyone living in cities, you can't train around villages in the outback or the peak District because.. >capitalism wants profit. People see the car as freedom, when/if ever public transport is back in public hands this is an option but you'll have to fight corporations protected by their neolibralist political class, until then electric motors are vastly more efficient than fossil fuel, with way way less PM2.5 that cuts short lives normal people's lives and prevents them from breathing clean air. 1 in 5 premature deaths world wide are attributed to the burning of fossil fuels. (Yale report)

[@m998hmmwv7]

@@jamesgrover2005 ok Mr parrot

[@cmbells7736]

@M 998 HMMWV if ppl maybe accept the truth maybe ppl not have to repeat the same thing. Calm down relax it's good for your health something like that. Chill fam. Structures of society need to be considered.

[@eliearle9900]

Recently I had a class where we read parts of King Leopold's Ghost, which gave a detailed background into the brutality of his regime but then focused more on the human rights campaign about the Congo in Europe. I feel like I got the second half of the story in this video, everything that happened after Leopold lost the Congo as his own personal colony. The historical parallels are chilling.

[@remon2541]

This is true for Cobalt, but also for many other minerals that go in electronics and motors.

[@andrasbiro3007]

Except it's not true. Not for Cobalt, and not for other materials. For example Tesla just announced a new electric motor that doesn't use rare-earth materials either. It's just copper, aluminum, and iron. And most of their batteries are already 100% Cobalt-free.

[@choahjinhuay]

@@andrasbiro3007 source?

[@diymicha2]

Except nearly every industry heavily relies on cobalt and lithium. Even ICE cars need that stuff and won't work without it. Also steel industry, petrol industry, glass industry, chemical industry... the list goes on forever.

[@andrasbiro3007]

@@choahjinhuay The source is the facts. Just look it up. Learn about the different battery chemistries, and look up their market share. You'll see that LFP batteries are rapidly growing in market share, and those are 100% Cobalt free. As for Tesla's new motor, just watch the Investor Day presentation. It's long, but worth watching, but if you are short on time, the relevant part starts almost exactly at the 1 hour mark.

[@rickb3650]

@@choahjinhuay András Bíró is just another sucker passing out red pills to those who want to believe.

[@MrQuantumInc]

"If we weren't here we would be stealing things in town." The reason why they do this is because they have no other options, and under capitalism when you have no other options you are going to get a very bad deal. Though having other options would require there be an economy outside of resource extraction, which would probably require that actual congalese be able to own and control their precious resources.

[@venusiansociety9483]

Amazing work, bravo!

[@mailcrowave853]

Very important video that everyone should see. Great job

[@tigerroz123]

"Electric cars" is just replacing one form of consumerism with another form of consumerism. We need to rethink how we do transportation and push for better public transport and encourage people to walk and cycle more. obvs some people especially those with reduced mobility would need their own automobile, but for everyone else there should be a focus on moving away from car ownership

[@sprockkets]

I'm sure you are aware of the channel Not Just Bikes which is just him doing the Strong Towns info.

[@railroadforest30]

Exactly

[@RodKruz]

Great video, mate. Your journalistic work is exceptional (research, editing, storytelling).

[@ricardomurillo5205]

Excellent video

[@GhostSoulVII]

Awesome video! Would love to see one on lithium. In the lithium triangle (Argentina, Bolivia and Chile) the situation is quite similar

[@shadowninja6689]

The batteries used in EV's have been moving away from cobalt for years now. LFP batteries for examples (which Tesla and Chinese automakers have begun using, and Ford even announced they were going to shift towards) use ZERO cobalt. And even more recently Sodium Ion Batteries (which BYD is going to make an EV that runs off) also use zero cobalt. Sodium ion batteries will likely become the main battery used for energy storage in the future because it's cheaper then Lithium and the disadvantages (i.e. more weight and less power storage then Lithium) are much less of an issue with stationary battery storage.

[@Neojhun]

The video made it sound like Zero Cobalt batteries were future technology. I first discovered LiFePO4 Prismatics in 2004.

[@sprockkets]

No, they are not. LFP is not suitable for Tesla's performance EVs, and none of the EVs made in the US or Berlin use them.

[@sprockkets]

@@Neojhun The USA never made the technology viable. The Chevy Spark EV had an A123 made LFP battery, but you'd never guess it was LFP by how badly it degraded.

[@grosha77]

thank you for your research .

[@NaumRusomarov]

“The dark truth about fossil fuels”. You need to check what has been consuming most of the cobalt mined for the past 50 years.

[@Dianasaurthemelonlord7777]

Are you trying to say we shouldn't try to transition away from them at all because mining conditions now are Inhumane?

[@michaelrch]

@@Dianasaurthemelonlord7777 No, he is saying that refining gasoline uses the majority of the cobalt in the world. meanwhile many EVs have cobalt-free batteries

[@Cancellator5000]

I think this is more about the dark truth of capitalism. Nothing is going to be a 100% ethical replacement though I think anything is going to be better than fossil fuels. I do think using public transportation if it's available is a more ethical option, but some people don't have that option and are unlikely to have it any time soon.

[@mozainy69]

I was going to mention this and then saw your comment. The guy who made this video usually makes great videos, and this one is good too, but I’m surprised he didn’t make a single mention in this video about the use of cobalt in the oil refining industry.

[@m998hmmwv7]

Have you lost your mind

[@DutchBoulders]

Thanks for making this episode. It's very confronting to learn about the colonial truth behind Cobalt and even more depressing that the only solution is a non-imperialistic world, since that seems like a fairytale.

[@andrasbiro3007]

Except it's not the truth. Just do some basic research, and you'll see.

[@rmf9567]

You’re so ignorant. If their government wasn’t so corrupt, this wouldn’t go on.

[@littlesometin]

@@andrasbiro3007 What is basic research?

[@johnscaramis2515]

@@littlesometin They are not mining for cobalt specifically, it's a byproduct. But that's only one part of a multi-part story. Another part is the use of cobalt to desulfur gas and diesel. Effectively snice the mid-70s when catalytic converters became a thing. Did anyone ever ask about the conditions of cobalt mining before EVs became popular? A third part of the story is that battery manufaturers are constantly reducing the amount of cobalt in the cells. And with LiFePO4 cells you don't need any cobalt.

[@andrasbiro3007]

@@littlesometin Google.

[@trainzmarcel2074]

we needed a video like this

[@Zift_Ylrhavic_Resfear]

Thanks for the video

[@AdityaSingh-lu8pb]

what a channel dude ❤❤❤❤❤

[@querube78]

Another reason to ride a bike to work every. Electric cars arent here to save the planet, they're here to save the car industry.

[@sprockkets]

Yep, and that's why Musk is against public transportation.

[@BobQuigley]

Until very recently Cobalt's #1 use was to remove sulphur from FOSSIL FUELS! In addition lithium ion batteries commercialized since 1992 have been using cobalt. Tens of billions of batteries for cell phones,laptops, countless other devices. Those batteries ended up in landfills or incinerators. Today battery recycling industry's number one problem is not enough used batteries! The industry is capable of recovering over 90% of the raw materials for reuse. Apple alone has a robot which can disassemble most of their devices. Separate every component for reuse. Recycle the cobalt lithium etc. They've already recovered 2,500 kilograms. There's also several other battery chemistries coming online that minimize and sometimes eliminate the problem.

[@wuddlej]

such important information to learn about. thank you for this video!

[@jannetteberends8730]

I just keeps walking. Driving is boring anyway.

[@nevadataylor]

The problem is most ALWAYS tied to capitalism.

[@rickb3650]

This is the key. Capitalism is necessarily destructive in every aspect and it will destroy our only home if not our species.

[@user-gu9yq5sj7c]

I'm not saying capitalism doesn't have problems but socialism also has problems and exploitation. Even if there was no money, some people would still be greedy with resources, browbeat people to produce for them, and overly shame laziness, such as to get what they want. For example, even without money, people would still dictate and shame people to mine cobalt for them to make EVs. Some environmentalists dictate people to provide for them things like solar panels and windmills. Some of them don't care or know workers mining and building those things are mistreated too. Look at the comments on the Night of the Consumer gameplay. Workers are bullied by some customers to overwork for them too. Socialist don't care if people are hurt by socialism too. Look at the comments on Second Thought on feminism. Even some socialists want capitalism cause some of them say women are golddiggers, and say women should do their own work, compete, and get money.

[@skyisreallyhigh3333]

@@user-gu9yq5sj7c None of what you said makes sense. "I'm not saying capitalism doesn't have problems but socialism also has problems and exploitation." Well yeah, socialism is the transitionary stage between capitalism and communism. The bourgeoisie still exist, but have far less power than before. However, workers under a socialist economy would be far better off than under capitalism. "Even if there was no money, some people would still be greedy with resources, browbeat people to produce for them, and overly shame laziness, such as to get what they want. " The problem with this statement is that you are imagining capitalism in a post-capitalist society. For money to not exist all societies around the world will have become self sufficient and everything would be communally owned, as it once was. The main difference between our primitive time and now is that we can now deliver an infinite amount of information to anyone who has access to the internet. And if we are living in a money free world, its safe to assume everyone is pretty well educated and has learned about the bloody capitalist past and how to avoid it. In this future no one would be hungry, no one would be homeless and therefor there would be no way to force someone to do something they don't want to. "For example, even without money, people would still dictate and shame people to mine cobalt for them to make EVs. Some environmentalists dictate people to provide for them things like solar panels and windmills. Some of them don't care or know workers mining and building those things are mistreated too. " Again, this statement is one imagining the mindset people have under capitalism existing in a post-capitalist society. I wont repeat any more. Also, why would EV's exist in a post-capitalist money free society? Many environmentalists believe we can have a green capitalism where our energy is cleanly produced but we still do all that exploitation so some can be insanely rich and powerful. Those peoples opinions are irrelevant to any form of leftism, for they aren't on the left. Why you mentioned them is beyond me. "Look at the comments on the Night of the Consumer gameplay. Workers are bullied by some customers to overwork for them too." I will not go look at whatever that is and I don't need to. You are taking how people act under the capitalist system and deciding that's how people act regardless of the socio-economic system in play. In a post capitalist money free society there would also be no classes. No lower class. No middle class. No upper class. Some people may desire to have more material objects, and that's fine because they aren't going to have the ability to exploit others for it. Hold on. A classless society? A moneyless society? Why, that sounds like communism to me. Terrifying "Socialist don't care if people are hurt by socialism too." How exactly do you define socialism? There is no true definite answer since there is plenty of nuance, but there is certainly completely wrong answers. "Look at the comments on Second Thought on feminism. Even some socialists want capitalism cause some of them say women are golddiggers, and say women should do their own work, compete, and get money." Socialism doesn't end the patriarchy. Not all people who watch left channels are on the left. Trolls exist.

[@DeadWhiteButterflies]

I hope at the very least that the miners will find a way to unionise and fight back.

[@Nphen]

The US controls the IMF who makes loans to these countries. They are more concerned with slashing subsidies and leaving people in poverty than forming unions. Cobalt is not the biggest problem on Earth. It is a small niche, because EV batteries have more than 50% moved away from cobalt. Big problems include Military/Industrial complex feeding weapons into Ukraine for an already-lost war. Millions of acres being wasted on fuel ethanol which loses more energy than it produces. Lack of nuclear fusion & fission research. Rigged presidential primaries from both major US parties.

[@YounesLayachi]

22:00 looking at you, FairPhone 🤨

[@LeviAkarman-yz4vh]

We need to rely on electric public transportation like trains, trams, and not to personal car

[@railroadforest30]

Exactly

[@sernanlloren8432]

China came there with an exchange proposal And not by force But stil Modern day slavery and exploitation Its up to the government of DRC they implemented it more industrialized mining and eliminating slavery type of mining, because if there is no opportunity, they gonna find another jod 13:39

[@theshadowponyp1469]

While what the video says is true, it's conclusions of "we need to use less cobalt" are short sighted. As the man at 16:43 correctly states: "if we weren't here, we would be stealing things in town to survive". The problem is not the worlds hunger for cobalt. The problem is people needing to work under such conditions to survive in the first place, be it in the DRC to mine cobalt or in Bangladesh to produce fast fashion.

[@suolainenomena7631]

Thank you

[@mclau1524]

Cobalt workers need unions, strength in numbers, and people to help fight against bad working conditions

[@TylerMWeather9102]

Corporate America lacks EMPATHY. I can’t wait until better people start taking control and treating the people throughout these supply chains with the respect and compensation they deserve. Everyone is entitled to good quality of life no matter where you’re from and seeing companies preying on those that need help most is absolutely gut wrenching.

[@natesofamerica]

I disagree that there are no simple solutions away from this, North America could make a huge impact by reversing their car dependent trend and begin using trains, defunding roads and highways and funding thousands of kilometers of high speed rail and replacing all parking lots with train stations and walkable, mixed use shops, residencies and green spaces next to rail freight access. Though there's no way they'll do that, you have to destroy the empire and overthrow them with the express purpose of doing stuff like this.

[@MagnusFeirenbacher]

LFP (lithium iron phosphate) batteries, which see widespread use in electric cars, do not actually contain cobalt. Other, more energy dense li batteries do though.

[@railroadforest30]

But lithium mines are very damaging to the environment

[@daviddeshazo5183]

Thanks for the video, I hope we are able to solve this problem and everyone can live a good life. We should share resources not exploit each other for them.

[@rexcadral3468]

I feel like this article is late to the game, since most manufacturers are trying to remove cobalt from batteries specifically because of this. I also note (as others have said) that when people talk about the dark cost of raw materials for battery tech, they never also talk about the dark cost of petroleum extraction, which (outside of the carbon problem) is similarly rife with sins against the planet and humanity.

[@definitelynotacrab7651]

disgusting how much of a blind eye is turned to this issue.

[@DrakonBlake]

It’s always good to have some proper captions

[@13ccasto]

This is one of many reasons we need a global UBI

[@Joostmhw]

Finally someone who can critique China whilst at the same time recognizing how Western countries have done the same for centuries.

[@cxngo8124]

My dad is about to get a river dredging contract near the town of Likasi in the DRC. The river will be removed of its sediments which contains lots of copper and cobalt. Unfortunate the local villages cannot benefit from the river opening up due to chemicals in the water, so we plan on building a basic water treatment facility to thank them for allowing use there land for profit. He has lived there for over 30 years and me 15. Its extremely awful what goes on there and I know it will never change, because we will never allow it to happen. If you have any questions I am happy to answer.

[@spagooter1807]

I have a question about foreign aid, is that helping or hurting the DRC right now? Is it a large amount of aid being given or none at all? I am from the USA I know many religious people that travel for aid but I always hear mixed things about foreign aid destroying local businesses and doing more to damage the local economy. And I’m not really talking about food aid we should definitely export that more religious and infrastructure projects. I think we should be less focused on perpetuating war and more focused on helping the world but I think my government wants to lie and act like they are helping is foreign aid useful?

[@cxngo8124]

@@spagooter1807 Depends on what the intention of foreign aid is. Is it to get the most value from the aid in terms of people like helping 1000 people with 1 million or truly changing the lives of the person the aid is going to such giving 100 people that same one million. But in general most of the times aid is given for people to feel good like they are doing something without actually doing much besides sending money. Most of the times if the stuff we give as aid could be made in the country that needs the aid, it would be much more beneficial and cheaper. Setting up programs and encouraging them to do things themselves also has long term impacts. As for infrastructure projects that are usually to serve the interest of the country providing the money. In the DRC the US built highways to help move minerals easier by trucks. They can be good, if it is what the country receiving needs but reality it is what the providing country wants which don't always match. Religious infrastructure is always good. In my opinion foreign aid should only be used for natural disasters or places in a war. We should be encouraging the receiving nation through programs and some investment to do so themselves. This boost the local economy as they are now making products for themselves rather then waiting for outside help.

[@lazyporcupine2360]

It's almost as if the whole problem is actually massive companies that have a stranglehold on world governments pushing responsibility onto the consumer and governments not actually holding these massive companies to account for the massive amounts of waste they produce.

[@az0ul]

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for making this video. I'm still shocked of what I've seen.

[@amosbatto3051]

I commend this documentary for providing the historical background. However, it should have mentioned that the switch from NMC/NCA/NCMA to LFP/LMFP battery chemistries (and sodium-ion in the future) is eliminating much of the demand for cobalt in EV batteries. The Chinese battery makers (CATL, BYD, Gotion Hitech, CALB, EVE Energy, Tianjin Lishen, etc.) led the world in developing LFP batteries, and the Chinese government heavily promoted their use in EVs. Tesla was the first major Western automaker to switch to LFP and now roughly 60% of its cars are using LFP. It was the competitive pressure from Tesla which has pushed VW and Ford to start adopting LFP. With LMFP now reaching energy densities of 220-240 Wh/kg, it is now approaching the energy density of NMC and NCA, but is significantly cheaper, has longer cycle life, lower risk of thermal runaway (and thus requires less cooling and allows tighter packing) and can be charged to 100% and discharged to 0% with less capacity degradation. With LG Energy, Samsung SDI and SK On all now developing LFP, I think that NMC, NCA and NCMA will be relegated to specialty cars that need the highest energy density in the future. I don't know if the LCO battery chemistry used in electronic devices like cell phones, tablets and laptops will be eliminated, so that will probably continue to be a problem. I think that the copper being extracted from Katanga is going to continue being a major problem, because the green revolution has dramatically increased demand for copper, just like cobalt.

[@Voe198]

incredible complicity

[@Jeemus.]

I'm off to go watch on Nebula!

[@youwastedyourtime1585]

Just wanted to say that I love your content and the perspective you provide on topics regarding climate change, while remaining consequent in every aspect and not just highlighting shiny tech solutions also cheers to brilliant for sponsoring a video like this!

[@brilllloo]

What a great video that is! Thank you.

[@SSNewberry]

Cobalt has many uses. We need to make changes now.

[@wesleyrobinson4335]

I wonder if the name of the game 'Colonists of Catan' has anything to do with Katanga

[@absolutelycitron1580]

It's refreshing to see a perspective that understands marching towards war with China makes no sense but that we should also call out their imperialism and exploitation of global southern countries

[@tyskigolf]

Good thing that EV companies are moving away from NCM batteries containing cobalt to LFP batteries which do not contain cobalt. BTW if you are using a gas car you are using cobalt as well as the refining of sulfur out of gasoline and diesel requires cobalt as a catalyst.

[@sprockkets]

This simply isn't true. Only China has made LFP batteries at scale. GM's LG plants, Panasonic's plants, and SKI and SDI are all not using LFP. And Tesla can't make performance EVs with LFP either, so guess what? NCM isn't going away anytime soon.

[@GMIV]

I love your work so, so, so much. Thank you for this.

[@damianfitzpatrick3465]

The people who are mining "this is the only way we can find to make money" the people who say they want to make conditions better "let's find a different material"

[@CocoShade]

😅 good point!!!

[@steveq34]

Very eye opening

[@vince---]

thank you for the video

[@klamky]

The least unethical car for now (besides no car at all) seems to be hybrid cars. Small battery, huge gas milage without any major tradeoffs.

[@steveng7174]

Oil, natural gas, and coal are needed to produce the concrete, steel, plastics, and purified minerals used to build green machines. The energy equivalent of 100 barrels of oil is used in the processes to fabricate a single battery that can store the equivalent of one barrel of oil. See how it works?

[@terenceiutzi4003]

Candian Cobalt mining was banned in the 70s because it was such an ecological disaster . But now Trudeau is promising to supply Mexican batter manufacturers all they need!

[@bboldt2]

And the beat goes on.

[@58turbovision]

great video

[@maryjohnson9337]

Is there even a way to mine it ethically if it’s kicking up toxic dust?

[@sudd3660]

i think not, probably machines could do it but that is another can of worms and resources better spent elsewhere.

[@cmbells7736]

I might argue it only makes it more difficult to do it safe cause on site showers with masks and suits would give you protection, no... I don't know, just a little thought from a nobody.

[@michaelchilds3305]

another reason for car companies to just use LFP batteries in electric cars, as LFP batteries don't use Cobalt.

[@VegitoBlue202]

ev's are still extremely bad

[@VegitoBlue202]

Yes it can be made environmentally sound BUT the infrastructure would just negate all of it

[@andrasbiro3007]

@@VegitoBlue202 No EVs are extremely good in every way.

[@andrasbiro3007]

@@VegitoBlue202 What infrastructure? Charging? That's mostly done with renewable energy already.

[@phiscz]

@@andrasbiro3007 no dog roads, paving them releases an incredible amount of co2, they require an inordinately unsustainable level of upkeep for their use value, and they are the single greastest contributor to habitat fragmentation. trains and other modes of mass transit are *exponentially* more efficient and less destructive

[@mangogo44]

Stunned by high quality production. Music, animation - everything is perfect. Wow

[@wades_world22]

wow... I learned a lot from this video, thank you 👍 I was reading a book about Leopold, called "King Leopold's Ghost" by Adam Hochschild which does an excellent job explaining in depth more of what was in this video. Also, I did not fully understand why cobalt was so important, and also why China is so heavily invested in Africa but now it all makes sense !! It kills me that the people living in the DRC have suffered so much ...

[@wades_world22]

ALSO, thank you for statement about the surge of electric car production vs. public transportation .... the companies are building EVs for PROFIT .... think of all the money that could have instead rebuilt our infrastructure to reduce the need for a car, and instead expand the capability of public transit and also bike infrastructure

[@coleames514]

Maybe I’m missing something but what makes chinas deal imperialism, aren’t they providing infrastructure for the DRC, which should then lead to an increase in wealth in the state, or is this really just expected to enrich the heads of state

[@coleames514]

Never mind

[@Fs0n1ine]

We should not forget how rather a lot of cobalt is burned in diesel fuel and its production where cobalt serves the function of desulfurisation, and cannot be recovered or recycled. And that amount isn't even as clearly identifiable as in electric batteries since not reported.

[@Thelango99]

Using LFP batteries will fix most if these issues. It uses neither nickel nor cobalt.

[@Thelango99]

The lithium is mined msotly in chile and Australia.

[@sprockkets]

But Tesla can't and won't. And that still leaves Apple and others who use them in phone and laptop batteries.

[@Thelango99]

@@sprockkets Tesla are already using LFP batteries in their latest cars.

[@sprockkets]

@@Thelango99 False. Their new factories in Texas and Berlin do NOT use LFP.

[@eqo-logiq]

If you want to travel sustainably , don't choose an electric car , choose an electric bicycle made of aluminium or steel and decrease the distance you travel in a month , Use solar etc. ✌

[@monishansari7503]

Wow very nice 🙂👍

[@gregmiller9957]

Great video other then instead of suggesting a way for justice for these exploited people, it only suggests a cobalt replacement. Then where does this leave these artisinal miners?

[@BillyTheBeast]

What's your opinion on hydrogen on demand?

[@b0rd3n]

Thanks for this and to put the sponsor at the end. I think we all have seen multiple t8mes about them same sponsors and interruption in such great content is not great...

[@merdithegoat4867]

What an excellent of video that goes just beyond climate change but goes to society's problems

[@shiptj01]

Man, this world is evil. I'm trying hard to live a simple life so that I can contribute as little as possible to the suffering. I don't know if doing enough, though.

[@majakofodjensen8604]

Great video and research, but it could have been half as long.. less people will be seing it because of lenght, which is a shame, because it's an important topic

[@dudes1079]

wonder what the foot print of the production and use of military vehicles and weapons is?

[@JP-fb8ni]

Charlie has actually made videos on both imperialism and the military.

[@Doglover2016-u5q]

Excellent work, now do lithium mines

[@bobcornwell403]

The electric car is probably going to be the end of the automobile age. Not to say there will be no more automobiles, but to say the automobile will no longer be the dominate means of transportation in urban and suburban areas. This is likely to be because of costs. The internal combustion auto is made out of far fewer strategic (relatively rare) minerals than the electric one. But even it is becoming increasingly expensive. Ordinary incomes, even in "the imperial core" , are not likely to keep up.

[@sprockkets]

That would be nice, but guess what? Conservatives aka Republicans or whatever party is conservative, opposes getting rid of car dependence. Even in Amsterdam or Netherlands.

[@fritagonia]

I think that every time you hear rhe word industry - it is profit first, environment second