Should You Unplug Someone Else’s EV If They’ve Completed Charging? | Episode 260

To plug or not unplug? That is the question. Join Francie, Kyle, Max, Jordan, and Jose from ‪@riviantrackr‬ as they talk about the electric vehicle charging debate of whether or not you should unplug someone else’s EV if they are done charging.
Jose’s tweet: / 1754278675325894670
Tweet of note from BMW owner: silverelan/status...
News story about unfortunate Tesla Supercharger incident: www.cbsnews.com/colorado/news...
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www.starcharge.com/charging
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kempower.com/america/charging...
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#evcharging #electricvehiclecharging #electricvehicle

[@mrmawson2438]

If it's completed charging and you need to charge why the hell not

[@vikasd.7139]

Is the potential "charger rage" worth it? It is the charge company being harmed, they need to handle it. One doesn't have right to charge.

[@jamespaul2587]

Exactly. If a gas car parked and blocked a pump, there would be no hesitation for another user to use the pump.

[@Tooradj]

If you can use the cable to charge and there are no other spots available, unplugging, save the owner idle fees, and save you time. On the other hand, if you can not use the cable or other spots available, unplugging is damaging to the company by taking away the idle fee revenue and robs the owner of a lesson they should be learning.

[@jamespaul2587]

@Tooradj agreed, but I think they're really only discussing unplugging another vehicle so you can use the charger when another plug is unavailable.

[@teardowndan5364]

​@@Tooradj if you unplug someone, you may spare them the idling fees but cost them a worse parking ticket which you may inherit if they got you on camera.

[@gforce2002]

Well, the proper etiquette is to unplug and move your car when it’s finished charging. The unplugging is just the reaction to the lack of this etiquette.

[@ScubaSteveCanada]

There is no etiquette. There must be signage, late fees and education.

[@verynick]

@@ScubaSteveCanadaI agree with overcharging fees. I wouldn’t want someone if they unplug my charger or vice versa. If I can charged, 10$ overcharge fee then I deserve it

[@Tooradj]

​@verynick The problem is, you paying idle fee, and the company receiving that money does nothing to help the person that lost his valuable time waiting for you to recover that value. That person unplugging you, helps him not lose time. Helps you avoid paying the fee and the company still get paid for selling power to both of you. Unplugging seems like a much more sensible option. Why would you want to inflict pain on a stranger (making him wait) when you could benefit from not doing it?

[@loriallen67]

I agree that unplugging is the more sensible option, but the situation is ripe for violence. In today’s world, the risk of personal injury is far too great. People are armed.

[@Tooradj]

@@loriallen67 true but keep in mind the violence happens because we are not meeting the unreasonable expectations of a few bullies. Is it better to set policy and SOPs to meet their expectations or risk a few injuries to adjust those expectations to a better overall practice? If they see majority do it and it is an accepted practice, it probably won't result in violence. The transition is the difficult period.

[@dalenions1872]

I wouldn’t mind if someone unplugged my car if I was fully charged.

[@CondoreComputing]

Me either as long as they are respectful, though a lot of people might feel violated, they treat an vehicle as an extension of themselves. If that bothers someone thought hey shouldn't leave it there after a full charge. We really just need a couple DCFC stalls with high idle fees and then a bunch of cheap Level 2 chargers.

[@chadmanPA]

Agree

[@_winston_smith_]

Big flashing green light like supermarket self checkout to tell you that the charger is free. The light comes on after charging is complete. Sign that says that "Anyone can unplug any vehicle that has a green flashing light." If you don't want someone else unplugging your car then make sure you come back before charging is complete.

[@chevrofreak]

Proper etiquette is to return to your vehicle by the time it is fully charged. If you cannot do that, expect someone who needs the charger to take it. This is why we need more AC chargers and lower wattage DC chargers in parking areas.

[@ScubaSteveCanada]

Quoting unofficial etiquette is so quaint in 2024. If etiquette still happened there would be no road rage.

[@barryw9473]

For fake sessions, absolutely remove cable, especially DCFC.For cars with a cable in car but no active charge session and owners faked a session to get a parking spot, I see no etiquette issues to remove plug. I have encountered this twice. Owner in this case is not paying anything but is actively blocking others from getting access to a sparse public resource.

[@Tooradj]

Each charger should be equipped with a camera, a flashing light, a siren and a bazooka. If a vehicle is detected but not charging, take a photo first for a jackass hall of fame competition. After 5 minutes the flashing light comes on, another 5 the siren and next....... you get my drift. As you can tell, I am not a big fan of supercharger setup where you can not tell creeps from the nice guys.

[@davidew98]

@@Tooradjsimple, just have the charger communicate and start the charge! It’s the way teslas do it

[@oldgandy5355]

I agree with Max. High idle fees are the best solution. In a related scenario, Buc ees in my town has 200 plus fuel pumps, covered by awnings. Many times most of the pumps are blocked by cars whose owner is inside shopping, browsing or whatever. Yes, the huge parking lot is exposed to the blistering sun, as are, frequently, dozens of drivers waiting for a pump. Boils down to courtesy. Don't be a "Karen". When your car is fueled, move it.

[@jamespaul2587]

High fees will help, but it won't prevent all blocking issues, nor will it help someone who is unable to travel to another station when all plugs at the location are in use or blocked

[@oldgandy5355]

@@jamespaul2587 True. The only solution which will eliminate the problem is to convince every person on Earth to be considerate of everyone else's feelings and needs, and to stop thinking we are better and more important than every one else. Until then high fees and fines for the habitually inconsiderate.

[@TecnamTwin]

​@@oldgandy5355Don't need to convince everyone, just the majority of EV owners and right now, not too many people own EVs. And if somebody gets upset, so what? They're being a jerk already. It is not their right to hog a charger after their use of it is over. Most definitely unplug that thing and use it. Your time is valuable.

[@incognitotorpedo42]

Don't use the name Karen as a term of derision. There are lots of people named Karen who are not jerks. It's not cool to do that.

[@oldgandy5355]

@@incognitotorpedo42 And there are a lot of jerks not named Karen. Who knows, you may be one.

[@stevesurf22]

I have always been cautious to not unplug someone. But I have in the past when the situation warranted it. The one time was at hotel with a single lvl2 charger, I arrived and parked next to a bolt that was already at 100% at about 6pm. I started by leaving a note asking if they could share the charger. I then asked the front desk at about 8:30ish if they could inform the owner but were unwilling. At 11pm I just unplugged them so I could charge overnight and not detour 30+mins to the supercharger that also would have cost me money and more time to charge as the hotel charger was free. The next day watched him on sentry at about 7am return to his car and they didn't seem to care that I unplugged him. I also left a note on my windshield that they could unplug me at 6:30am if needed. They never even read it.

[@TecnamTwin]

Some people just don't care. It's just them in their little world of NPCs.

[@kyliefan7]

Sounds like you did the right thing! Why would they say no if they were unwilling to do it themselves. Also too bad the hotel can’t say to owners “If another EV user needs to use the charger they have the right to unplug the FREE level 2 charger”. Any hotel/motel owners feel free to use my verbiage!

[@rud]

So if there were high idle fees after 5 minutes, at least people waiting would have some pleasure in knowing they are a ton of money to the charging network. That might reduce the rage. :D

[@Have.An.AmicoDay]

it will not help the anxiety if you are in an automobile that will not have the power to move itself until you start plugging it into your own car...

[@gwilki2]

Yasss more money for our corporate overlords 🤤

[@Tooradj]

Idle fees should go to a national charging infrastructure fund. Otherwise it may give incentives to providers to increase the likelihood of you paying those fees.

[@TecnamTwin]

I don't think that Porsche Taycan owner cares about a $20 idle fee.

[@totaled108]

I don’t recall having to touch my car when I unplug the CCS from it. When I open or close the little door, then I’m touching the car. I say as long as you can 100% confirm the charging session is complete to the owners set value, the charger is open for use, regardless if it’s still plugged in. I’m like Kyle and NEVER charge to 100% at a fast charger, and my car has never sat there without me, having finished charging. I also have the pleasure of being a Bolt owner, so am very conscious of my slow charging speeds. I’ve actually moved chargers during a session when a fast charging car rolls in, helping them out to choose the correct unit to maximize their session.

[@the_red_key8825]

I do not mind if either my car is disconnected when full, or a DC fast charging above 80% if the station is needed. Got into a rough situation with (who else) a Bolt owner at an EA station with one station working and a line of 6 cars. The Bolt owner was in his hotel room wanting a full 100% charge. 6 others, me included, were on road trips just needing our 70% or 80% to get back on the road and be gone. One of the nicest owners of an ID4 had actually been in contact with the Bolt owner and had his cell. The bolt was over 80% so we asked the guy to unplug and allow others to get a charge and get going. He rudely and flat out refused. He did not care about ANYONE else. He had nowhere to go, but felt he was owed his 100% charge no matter what. So we decided together we were going to go ahead and disconnect (not touch his car, but disconnect) and once we all got our charges, we would reconnect him. He got angry, refused and came down. It was tense, but we got our charges while he grumbled, called the cops (they didn’t care and didn’t show) and we got our charges and when we were done to hand it back to him, he just got mad and left. I normally wouldn’t disconnect someone just out of convenience or something like that. This situation was just unfair and nuts and i took action I would normally not. Like I said, if it was reversed, i have no problem with someone doing that if I completed my fair charging.

[@GregHassler]

People touch cars all the time, get over it. The cable doesn't belong to the car. If you're done charging you need to give the cable back. It's pretty simple really. I'm sorry your parents didn't raise you properly.

[@the_red_key8825]

@@OpinionatedOG184 100% disagree . How in the hell does connecting a cable to your devic/car make it yours?? Every network you connect your phone to or charging cable you borrow now yours bc you connected to it? That’s not the way the world works. And btw, I stay ready, so I don’t have to get ready …

[@guy7622]

I think it's wrong to unplug someone else's. If you pay to charge 5% or 100%, they own that plug for that time. I would have probably tried to find another place to charge. Taking the plug out of someone's car and charging your car is bullying. They may not physically own the charger, but chances are, you don't either. If he was in the hotel and was charging there, it was probably paid with his stay.

[@kelviskelvis7140]

Nobody has the right to unplug someone else's vehicle period. I don't feel there is any justification to disconnect anything but your vehicle. Secure locking is the answer. And to add enforcing idle fees.

[@the_red_key8825]

@@guy7622 to clarify the situation. The next nearest DC fast charger was about 50 miles away for most of us. There was no other alternative as I said before I would normally not do this, but given that there was no other alternative, and we were facing an hour or two for this car to continue charging to 100% we collectively made the decision to do so. If you don’t agree, that’s your problem not mine.

[@jdlutz1965]

EV charging rage happens, same as road rage, someone feels slighted by sometimes rude behavior. Politeness is often not first decision when someone is stressed by their personal situations. That said, being aware of others, using the Golden Rule should be top of mind. I've seen door knockers or hang tags used giving permission to remove plug if you need to... Very polite!

[@lelandhetrick205]

Agreed. Best response in the comments.

[@incognitotorpedo42]

Whose rage are you talking about? The rage of the person whose car got unplugged, or the rage of the person who needs to charge and can't? The former is invalid, the latter is valid. Just unplug it. If they get mad, they're just being even more of a jerk than they already were.

[@mitchdroberts]

Most (all?) of these chargers have a companion app. Would love to see a feature in the app where someone can request to unplug. An alert would then go out to everyone currently plugged in at that location that is currently at their charge limit. If they agree, a response goes back to requester that car at stall XYZ has agreed to be unplugged.

[@fjrdbnkr]

Recommendation: Have at least 50% - 100% additional level 2 chargers (22kw EU) at every level 3 (Supercharger) , for many reasons! .. 1) When almost full (80%) you can finish the charge at level 2 speeds and finish your meal or shopping without rush. 2) when all stalls are full at arrival you can start charge when in line. 3) maybe most importantly when your car is at 0% or coldgateing you can get a trickle charge going until battery is warm enough for DC fast charging. 4) you can leave your car at level 2 (after level 3) when at hotel or other long stay. So for example at a 4 charger supercharger location add 4 or 8 slow cheap/free destination chargers , and at a 48 stall supercharger location add at least 24 slow plugs. And of course have a 5 min grace period and idle fees at 100kw + stalls , and a 30min or 1hour grace period at a slow charger if they are at high demand. PS: if there are more than say 24 stalls, or at a busy place , there should always be a convenient store, window cleaning amenities, trash bins , toilets , coffee and personnel who have the means and authority to remove a vehicle when icing (wheel trolley with lift mechanism).

[@jamescardelli4254]

I am in the same mindset as Kyle. Either move on to another charger or just wait for them to come back to their car and maybe try to politely educate them on ettiquette. While I would not personally care if someone unplugged my car once it completed its charge other will care and we live in a time where where people do not need a lot provocation to pull a gun and use it. Getting beat up or shot isn't worth it. Perhaps while we are waiting on the infrastructure to improve drivers of EVs that do not lock the CCs charger could be more forward thinking and leave a note on their car window that says it is ok to unplug their car if they are not back before the charging is complete that might help although it doesn't necessarily solve the problem of the cable potentially not being long enough to reach the car that needs to charge. This is why I tend to limit my time away from the car while charging to 10-15 minutes, especially if the only stall open when I arrived is a 350kw or a chademo spot since my Bolt can't fully utilize the 350 and I don't want to be that jerk lol.

[@ScubaSteveCanada]

But if you are charging to 100% in a Bolt and have to wait another 2 hours ... what then?

[@lyfandeth]

That's the same as laundry room etiquette in apartment buildings: When your wash is done, MAKE ROOM FOR THE NEXT PERSON. Now, yes, sometimes people just get distracted. But you have to learn to share. Or, sit patiently and let the charger continue to bill a dollar per idle minute to penalize the charged car. Since chargers are often linked to cell phones, why not have the charger text a 10 minute warning? And then get rabid about texting once the charge is done?

[@guccisasha]

Heavy idle fees after a 5 min grace period max, like 25 dollars a min. people will be dragged to learn to be civil. Just like seatbelt, people don't like but they were taught and dragged to use them.

[@mech-E]

I was level 2 charging while skiing one time and another driver unplugged my car while mine was still actively charging. I have a tesla but was on an adapter. The charge cable for his spot had been damaged previously. The app notified me so I went down to the car and unplugged his and plugged mine back in. I also got an adapter lock to prevent this in the future.

[@ronb4633]

I had unplugged a completed BMW at a 8 unit EA location that was 100% busy. I did park in front of the car but of course sat in the car. Also I took a photo of the completed chargers screen before unplugging him. Also at my workplace we have L2 charging that we have etiquette to unplug completed cars and plug in another car with port open. If people don’t like people touching their cars they need not use the chargers at my workplace.

[@juergenheymann6362]

VW ID.4, you can instruct the car to unlock the port once it has finished charging. I regularly use this feature, anticipating that someone will disconnect my car once it's finished charging. However, I make an effort to return before that occurs. I never charge my car up to 100% since I have a charging connector at home. Please remember to disconnect the car of an inconsiderate person when it stops charging. EA does not have an adequate number of functioning connectors to permit charger blocking.

[@jamespaul2587]

Lol, Francie's "I'm not touching you..." must have been a sibling memory 😊

[@googlefiber3627]

What excuse is there other than being held up/forgetfulness (it happens) to leave your vehicle plugged in at 100% at any public charger? What if everyone wants to keep their battery warm overnight or ready to go the next morning? You know you are charging. Monitor the SOC. Once at 100%, return to your vehicle, unplug it, and move. You can return and plug up again if the charger is free. This is my practice. It's called being considerate of others.

[@Snerdles]

My car has a button that automatically unlocks the cable when charging is finished, or keeps it locked in place by default... Specifically so that when at home you can keep your cable in place (especially if using an EVSE) so it doesn't walk away on you, but when at a public charger you can keep your doors locked but automatically release the cable when finished. It would be nice if car manufacturers would have some type of indicator near the charge port... Like a light that says "charging complete, OK to remove cable".

[@johnpoldo8817]

At a large shopping mall in SW Florida, Tesla installed 16 SCs plus 16 destination J1772 chargers. If you want to spend 1-2 hours in the mall, their 9 kW chargers are excellent to avoid idle fees. Initially, the destination chargers were only 2kW and no one used them. Once increase to 9k, they got far more use.

[@davidsworld5837]

YES. you should unplug and close the persons car flap. since charger do not tell people who go away from the car. and charge the car faster than what is shown on screen at start. If you do not then this owner may not return for ages, it could be that the charge failed and the person does not know. But blocking a charger when the owners car is charged is not right. I use a timer on my phone to bring me back 10 min before it ends. and if I can I would come back half way through to check on charging. As long as you treat the owners car with respect and close there flap so rain or bad weather can get in to the connector. I have had some one unplug mine because it finished, but that is fine. it finished sooner than I thought and there was a que. So I am fine with it. As long as the car has been fully charged etc. and the ccs releases when finished.

[@ZurOhki1]

This question always confused me until I realised J1772 was different. A type-2 plug has the locking mechanism in the *vehicle*, so you can't just pull the plug out. The vehicle has to let go of it.

[@steveedmond9362]

I once lived in a complex with a communal laundry. Someone removed my washing from the machine when it finished and dumped it in a dirty wash trough. I got there maybe a minute after it stopped (i heard the machine stop as my apartment was 15m away and I could hear it)

[@barryw9473]

I blocked an ICE BMW when desperate for a charge (8 years ago). Blocking was fully justified and security guard came and gave BMW a ticket.

[@yolanda4731]

MX was L2 charging at 1 of only 4 chargers at an entire ski resort - left it plugged in for over 3 days. Guy pulled in same time as me to use the 1 next to it- he unplugged the MX so we could both charge. If you know the charger is being misused - 100% u can unplug it

[@timoliver8940]

In my Mini Cooper electric unless I check a box in the charging menu the charging plug will be locked to the car but there is a box labelled “unlock charge plug on completion” which will do this if checked. I used to unplug car that had completed charging as indicated by the status lights on the charger - mostly they were Kia’s being charged by the local dealership for free all day on the local 50kW chargers. Interesting that now those chargers have to be paid for there isn’t a Kia ever on them!

[@TJPavey]

I’d definitely unplug a car from a business utilizing free public chargers like that. Businesses get to write off everything and already pay less in taxes than I do in many instances.

[@Jabid21]

Idle fees need to be scalable instead of a flat one based on the how busy that charging location is at that time of day. If only one car is charging, the standard idle fee applies ($1.00 per minute after grace period), if the station is full, go ahead and charge $5 per minute .

[@Gazer75]

@19:50 US have pretty said no to 3-phase charging with NACS so that is not going to happen. Because of this is also going to get a lot more expensive to set up rows of AC chargers at parking lots like we have here in Norway. The cable size and everything need to be pretty big, you basically need to install 64A certified cables and fuses to get 11kW at 240V. Most likely you'll see more 7.2kW chargers with 40A equipment. Here you get 400V 16-30A public AC chargers, so basically 11-22kW.

[@TuomasLeone]

Unfortunately true, this is one of many mistakes made in the North American market. Let's hope these lessons are learned with the next generation of EVs and charging and a more comprehensive and holistic view is taken. This is an area where smart regulation is needed, something that is sorely lacking here.

[@callistoscali4344]

But you don't need 3 phase for that. You can set up a row of AC chargepoints. It exist now in the USA. Actually, it is quite common.

[@GregHassler]

SAE J3068 exists for 3-phase. Will only be used for trucks.

[@Gazer75]

@@callistoscali4344 It's not impossible at all, just going to be more expensive due to the higher current. And I'm pretty sure 22kW is out. >90A is a lot of current. Not that it matters yet, most EVs have a single 11kW on board charger anyway. There are areas here with old 230V IT instead of 400V TN, and those are limited to 16-32A or 3.6-7.4kW. I'm not 100% sure, but I think there is a regulation in place here now for public parking. It says at least 5-10% of new spaces must have a charger. So basically municipalities have to add charging if they open up new parking areas. I don't think it applies to like parking at malls and areas that are basically private ground.

[@2pdlpwr]

Until and if, we have enough charge stations. The price you pay for getting you car to 90 percent should double. So 15.00 is now 30.00 at 91 percent, if you don't unplug and move on, on a busy station. And so free vw's turns to 15.00 over 90 percent. Or charge more per kwh (5 buck a kwh) for topping off the charge, because it's slow... Make it too expensive to get that last 10 percent.

[@bryankia]

I am an id.4 owner that stops charging at 80% and has my car set to unlock at completed charging. Anyone is more than welcome to take my charging cable once I am done charging, just be respectful of my beautiful red pain job :). The is easy for me to say I charge at home 98% of the time.

[@LivingInKaos]

Had this recently at an EA station. There was a charger down, a line waiting on the 3 working. One car there charging when I arrived, I went and looked, was at 100% and dinging idle fees showing having been idle for over 90 minutes and garnered over $36 worth of fees. I was on a charger, so I didn't mess with it. I did, however, mention it to ever person behind me that if they felt comfortable, that end one was done and the space next to it was open so they could park there, unplug them and plug in. About 4 people back the guy said, "you bet" and did just that. He was very careful to not touch the car itself and to make sure that it was unlatched- didn't just yank. Left the charging door open. Now, the first thing he said after I found interesting. "this person either has had an emergency, or is clueless. Either way, I am doing them a favor unplugging them. If they are just clueless, I hope those idle fees teaches them something." I got done maybe 30 minutes later and the car was still there....

[@teardowndan5364]

Equip fast-charging stations with 4x as many cables as there are ac-dc converters, let people connect to those cables and register their payment details to get in queue, then let switchgear cycle through the queue. No fretting about people hogging any particular spot for 30min more than necessary.

[@kyliefan7]

😊I really love this group of people and one of my new favorite podcasts! Especially love Francie!! Great questions and always knows her stuff!!

[@andrewt9204]

I unplugged someone once at a LVL2 hotel location. The EVSE charge light was off so they were done. I'd have no way to continue on to get to my destination without it (it was admittedly a risk, but I checked plugshare first). Otherwise I'd have to be a few hours late at least. I maybe could have found a 120V plug, but I don't think that would have been enough. I charged for a couple hours before falling asleep and then went to plug their car back in. As soon as I woke up I saw their car was gone which was great as I plugged mine in to add a bit more free juice. I didn't want to mess with their car and I felt a little bad about unplugging but I didn't have much of an option. I also knew they weren't charging anymore so I felt a little less guilty, and I was mindful not to touch their car with anything. It was a chevy bolt so no powered flap or anything to touch.

[@Digikidthevoiceofreason]

The rule is this....and it is indisputable. If someone has an EV that is done charging.....give them up to 15 minutes to get to the car and unplug it. After that all bets are off and you have EVERY right to unplug it. Just be aware some EVs will engage the alarm if you do so. If people are ignorant enough to leave their EVs plugged in past 100%...screw em. There is also NO rule that gives priority to who gets to charge first. It is always first come, first served. I have seen people go and unplug other evs while the owner is still in the car....often saying that they need it more than they do. This is unacceptable and will earn a right cross hook to most people.

[@lowfuel6089]

About 15 years ago I worked at a company that had a row of Blink chargers, and we used to print out and laminate these little cards that would go around the evse cable, stating whether or not you were okay with other people unplugging you.

[@nicnordic6143]

DC: probably no space for an extra ev to charge, just add fees from 80/90/100% SOC or rising costs p min

[@Harrythehun]

Agreed

[@urbanstrencan]

Here in Europe, on Cupra Born (VW group) you can set up a car to unlock the charging port automatically when charging ends. So you can unplug the charger even if you don't have keys.

[@Paul-cj1wb]

Absolutely, positively YES. If they don't have enough etiquette to move after their EV has finished charging, then unplug their ass if the station allows it. There is nothing more annoying than old guys leaving their ID4s and Ioniq5s there long after they're finished charging just because they have free charging. That it just another dagger against CCS chargers. The best way is what Tesla is doing now -- as the station gets close to filling up, you get multiple warnings on your phone app that the cost per kilowatts will increase past 80%. And of course, after you EV has completed charging, they charge you hefty idling fees. The higher the better.

[@_cjmccullough]

Best Solution: What if the charging manufacturers just locked the charger in place until the charging at whatever desired charge is complete and then when it finishes the desired amount, it automatically unlocks and shows a screen that it is ok to remove by anyone. The manufacturers would have to state that it is ok to unplug someone else’s car if they are taking too long, and owners would understand that it’s designed to be this way. Everyone would be happy because it’s expected and they all get their desired charge. They just would have to design a lock to the port on the handle and then an automatic release at the end of desired charge that the user sets either in car, or in app. This could also work for people who want to schedule the charge because it has to finish charging in order to release the plug.

[@FrankThorley]

How about having the charging stall sound alarm & or flash bright red light.

[@arthurgutnik146]

I agree with Kyle. Electric cars are not just the "enthusiasts" anymore where everyone knew each other. Now reaching the general public the dynamics have changed. I watched someone complete their charging, get in their car, and sat there for 5 minutes snacking and on their phone. I wanted to get out and tell them to park in a normal spot elsewhere in the lot. I decided not to because everyone these days just thinks they are "right" and it isn't worth my time and breath. Now to unplug, I would only do it if someone had a note on their car to give permission. I think at a hotel everyone just has to coordinate and be nice. Being nice just goes a long way.

[@MichaelW-kx3wz]

For the foreseeable future, DC fast charging stations are going to be a scarce resource and needed to be treated as such. Some thoughts 1 agree with heavy idle fees. If it hurts economically people stop doing it and it’s better for the charging station 2. limit charging at public stations to 80%. We all know the charging curves go down on just about every vehicle and it’s a public utility not a right for everyone to take as much time as they need. 3. put up signage I see this as similar to laundromats about not leaving your stuff in a machine and say the expectation is you will be unplugged. Unfortunately, the concept of an attendant does not make a lot of sense given the cost involved and what it would do to the economics unless these stations are at convenience, stores, etc. similar to a gas station or

[@techringo6469]

It's a sad state of society in the US where we no longer have the conversation when someone does something like this, and expect someone else to do it on our behalf, as recommenced here. When I was growing up if someone did something disrespectful (and leaving your car blocking a charger when it's at 100% is very disrespectful) it was common and safe to have the conversation with that person. And generally, everyone was respectful. That is no longer the case, and we expect someone else (the police, the government, etc) to enforce respect. And it is no longer even safe to initiate that conversation ourselves. And I agree with Kyle that education is never going to happen. Mainly because most efforts to educate are met with hostility. There was a time when this could have been an education opportunity. If I returned to my car and it was 100%, and others were waiting, I would personally be very embarrassed and apologetic for being disrespectful to others. I feel that is not the case in general in society today.

[@ScubaSteveCanada]

The signage needs to reflect that any EV can be unplugged once charging is completed. Same with 400V battery systems plugged into an 800V system. Without this sign, I would be very uncomfortable unplugging someone else's EV. It depends on my needs.

[@djwhiteflour]

What signage? Signage at the charger? I haven’t ever seen a sign like that on a level 3.

[@SueC56]

There are hang tags you can get that optionally have your phone number and tell people if you are convenience charging or charging out of necessity and whether it is okay to unplug.

[@PierceHaviland]

I recently unplugged a Chevy Bolt that was at 100% and actually had dew on the windshield from being there for an extended period of time. There were no other working chargers that I could use. When I left after after a 20 minute charge, the Bolt was still parked there.

[@adofoi30]

If I’m finished note FINISHED! Then yeah take out my cable and use the station!

[@callistoscali4344]

The solution is a simple one. Just implement idle fees. Problem solved instantly. If a car is parked blocking a spot from charging, then a illegal parking ticket will solve the problem. It is not complicated at all.

[@barryw9473]

I wish. Tickets are not given out fast enough. I have twice removed a DCFC cable from “fake” sessions - in both cases people parked and plugged in DCFC just for a good parking spot.

[@scottmcshannon6821]

enforcement. ive seen the signs telling you it is illegal to park there without charging, but so what? who tickets you? charging stations are in parking lots on private property, cops dont police parking on private property, are the "mall cops" going to ticket? is anyone stupid enough to pay a ticket from a "mall cop"? its private property and management can tell you to leave and not come back, but will they. are they reall interested in charging hassles?

[@barryw9473]

@@scottmcshannon6821exactly. More infrastructure is part of the answer. There will always be entitled people who only think about themselves.

[@callistoscali4344]

@@barryw9473 Of course more infrastructure is the answer, but that is the solution to everything. Not enough food? More food. Not enough cars? More cars. That's not a solution. That is a wish that can never be attained because there will never be infinite resources for anything. Just think of what would happen if it were any other resource that is being blocked from use. E.g. you go into a restaurant and occupy a table without ordering anything. Would your answer be 'more tables'?

[@callistoscali4344]

@@scottmcshannon6821 There is a profit motive for the vendor to ensure that their resources are effectively utilized so that they can make back the money. Try blocking the entryway to a gas station. Would police arrive to ticket you?

[@dereks4577]

We have free charging at work. One charger that splits power with two cords. We unplug and plug each other’s cars when a car is done or when we are done. But the Audi’s lock the cord to the vehicle so some of the drivers aren’t happy when the Audi’s are done and they can’t remove the cord. We can’t leave work to go unplug our cars so this has created a little problem and the dayshift has a charger text chain to speak to each other.

[@shahzadiqbal1976]

Amazing video. I agree with suggestions given by Max and points made by Jordan. Amazing point brought up by Kyle. This is a very good topic to discuss Francie. Thank you so much for bringing this topic Jose and Francie.

[@johnpoldo8817]

Kyle is 100% correct in that we have no short term solution. Terminating free charging would help a lot. Florida has a law against parking at a charger and not getting a charge. But, it is an infraction that requires multiple occurrences for a penalty.

[@foreeldo]

It’d be nice if you could customize a message on your vehicle’s screen to let someone know if they’re okay with you unplugging their vehicle once they’re done. Say your vehicle’s cameras see someone approaching the vehicle. It could check if it’s reached its desired charge level, unlock the charge port, and display prominently “I’ll be back soon! Feel free to unplug me.” Idle fees are a more efficient solution, though.

[@viplav76]

Will be great to put this question to Tom at state of charge

[@sc5102day]

New test see which vehicles can be unplugged without the key.

[@ScubaSteveCanada]

Depends 0n settings sometimes. I have 3 options 1. Never lock 2. Lock while charging 3. Unlock at a specific percentage.

[@volcalstone]

​@@ScubaSteveCanadaor lock until the car is unlocked on my EV6 GT.

[@ericroe]

At 26:35 Kyle suggests leaving a note. Unless you are at a level 2, I’d be more pissed about you leaving a note. That to me means you are intentionally blocking a charger and know you won’t be back once it reaches 100%. How about people only charge to 80% and be back at their car before it reaches 80%. Every car will tell you when you are estimated to reach 80% or your charge limit so you know how much time you have.

[@gridjac]

Personally, I wouldn’t care if someone unplugged me. I try not to leave my car past 100, and so far I haven’t, but as Jordan said it’s possible to finish charging faster than expected. If that happened to me, by all means unplug me. But.. maybe don’t close the door? Put the cap back over the DC pins, I’d appreciate that, but my Ioniq 5 has a power close door and if someone tried to close it manually and broke it, I’d be pissed.

[@1shotray]

I’m a gun toting id.4 driver in Texas. I don’t leave my car unless I have a long way to charge and I don’t charge to 100%. I would definitely unplug the other guy if it stopped charging. It’s his problem when he’s not there to monitor the situation and to be a good citizen. I don’t have any respect or sympathy for those who don’t respect me. I would not damage their car. That is illegal and in a court of law the judge would throw out the case when there is no expense or damage incurred by the other driver. BTW, I understand but I take offense for you calling out all id.4 users for the transgressions of others. 😊

[@1shotray]

BTW, my id.4 has a setting to unlock the charge port when done (80%).

[@fixittony]

The vehicle parked and plugged in has right to stay plugged in. The idle fees are levied and so be it. Same issue of EVs parked in airport ramps. Here in Wisconsin the owner of the property onto which the station sits can charge any idle fee.

[@mrmawson2438]

Cheers guys

[@benjamindbarr]

It is common for me, I drive a leaf and there are alot of aholes at 100% that block the chademo port and they are between me and getting home. I've blocked on a car at 100% but I didn't leave and they never even came out in the time it took me to charge

[@clashwithneo]

I think Tesla used to be great at this UNTIL they decided to power split at V2 chargers, the old system of first come first serve was a great idea, I don’t know which idiot decided to change the system to even power split. Now chargers have an incentive to prevent someone next to them from charging by either double parking and/or telling them the charger doesn’t work.

[@CondoreComputing]

There's nothing like seeing the a-hole parked at a V2 with all their doors open so nobody can park next to them, I've seen it 3 or 4 times now.

[@andrewt9204]

Will be nice when all stations are converted to V3 or higher for reduced chances of charge limiting. It will be a while, but luckily I've been noticing more and more new V3 sites close to older V2 sites. I think power splitting at V2 is still a better system than the shared cabinet just not working. Leaves less downtime chance waiting for those people to move. And shifting power from the car starting to taper or is barely charging to the one still at a lower SoC is going to be faster throughput. Otherwise you're just wasting potential available power. Unless they changed V2 so that the newly plugged in car was at a very reduced rate of ~20kW or something just to get things initiated and keep heat/AC/pre-con going, and then would only start ramping as the 1st car started tapering. That way the 1st come 1st serve system isn't really affected.

[@user--PM]

imo for DCFC implement time based charging fees (maybe both time and kwh fees). 35 cents per kwh seems to be the normal fee rate, but most folks can pump in enough power to move along in 20 mins. so perhaps lower/eliminate the per kwh rate price and do a fixed per min rate, say $5 per minute or whatever the math works out to average the max throughput per min/kwh. in this way people would be less inclined to just sit there plugged in for any longer than needed. this would also make people that have slower charging vehicles look for something that charges faster. also this could also be configured such that using a 350 kwh charger, charges more per min vs a 150. and then the area would also need cameras to prevent icing the spots (or just parking in the spot and not charging), by sending a fee via mail, similar to using a toll road without an ez-pass. with sufficient signs to make everyone aware of the fees.

[@garybushey965]

I was watching this on my phone and the ad showing below was for the Cary NC Vinfast dealer. ;)

[@ScubaSteveCanada]

Before the video started would be KZbin. During the video could be Out of Spec or KZbin.

[@garybushey965]

@@ScubaSteveCanada It was outside of the video. Below the actual video

[@platformfanatic]

I have an Ioniq 5 and you can change the settings so the charge port won't unlock until you unlock the car as mentioned. Idk if that's a good idea since someone could try to pull it out regardless. Also I have free charging, and I don't think idle fees apply to free charging. At least I haven't ever seen idle fees, but I also unplug on time.

[@volcalstone]

You have a credit card on file with EA as part of the whole new account process so if they wanted to enforce an idle fee they will on top of your free charging. It's just that not a lot of stations are doing them and I don't see why not to prevent things like this from happening since there aren't so many stations to begin with right now. Once we have like 3-5x the charging structure in the US then this shouldn't be an issue. It's more about having a lot more units at the existing ones vs a new charging location so much. It's less annoying to have to move to a different spot vs having to drive 5 miles or so to the next charging station.

[@ericroe]

If a car is charged to 100% and there is a spot where the cable can reach my car I will 100% unplug someone’s car. You aren’t touching their car and screw them, don’t be rude and leave your car to idle. I have done this and I was able to charge up to the point I wanted and the other driver hadn’t come back. Are we to sit there for an hour waiting to see if they’ll return? I would also suggest taking a picture of the completed charge.

[@strang35]

I had someone stop my charge session then unplug charger from my car while I was away. When I returned to my car I had some words for her, she said she needed to charge and I already had more than 80% soc.

[@mariusmeyer14]

That is why we will have to rely on the EV owner's good nature not to hold a Charging station hostage and unplug in due time. But then, I have seen that not all EV drivers are part of the 'Band of brothers '. They are human and some should be rubbish.

[@antonymcneillis]

Excellent point Matt. In the UK one of our Supermarkets, Sainsbury’s, is about to install rapid chargers in all their sites. EVs will be able to charge almost fully whilst the owners shop. This is especially good if they do not have access to home charging. I expect other supermarkets to follow suit soon.

[@ScubaSteveCanada]

If an EV owner has no access to home chargers, guess what charger they will use, grocery shopping or not?

[@rp9674]

USA focus is on DC fast even tho long trips are a minority of use. I'd like to have more L2 & L1 at long term parking, such as job parking.

[@ab-tf5fl]

​@@rp9674 More L1 and L2 is definitely good. Although, it's usefulness tends to be very hit or miss. That is, you either happen to live or work at a place that offers L1 or L2 charging or you don't, and if you don't, changing that is usually beyond your control, unless you live in an owner-occupied house. For better or worse, DC fast charging has the nice property that you don't need to depend on your particular landlord or employer to choose install it, you just need somebody to do it within reasonable distance of you.

[@rp9674]

​@@ab-tf5flall levels are needed. Fast for long trips & because there's not enough L1&2, semi-ironically. Ideally DC fast for tripping only, the hardware is more fragile & $$$, more suited for taking turns, L1&2 for mass charging

[@MJ-zo5gb]

Someone needs to write an EV etiquette book

[@simonthebroken9691]

How is it any different than icing?

[@kens97sto171]

If you activate an Electrify America charger with the app... Any change in status, both starting and ending charge, or if and error happens you get a very distinct notification, followed by a text message or email. I don't know what happens if your using plug and charge or some other method and not using the EA app.

[@volcalstone]

As stated this would've been prevented if we had more stations along with high idle fees. If there isn't enough stations then the drivers should be aware of this and be considerate to others. I don't be going shopping for an hour knowing that my car is only going to take 15 mins to charge unless you are planning to come out to move your car latter. People shouldn't need to unplug other people cars if the owner was considerate in the first place. This isn't abour having the right chargers as the right location. All chargers should be upgraded to 350kW eventually if they aren't already. Also there should be an official queue system within the EV station app if there isn't a physical line present. This could easily be done easily and would take the guessing game out of it especially during the busier weekends or so. Honestly EV stations should've been built like gas stations to begin with. You drive up to charge and stay in your car if possible. If it's gonna take long then sure go out and do something but just be considerate that's all. That could be asking a lot for some people unfortunately. Ultimately would I unplug someone else's charger? No. Do I care if something else unplugs me? Yes but it will never get to the point for me as I would never be idling like that to begin with.

[@desiv1170]

Not directly related, but funny "ooopps" story on my behalf. I pulled into a set of EA chargers and for some reason, people were charging with the cords kind of weird... What I mean is that when I pulled into the open spot, the charger next to me was actually charging the car on the other side and stretched... So I had to use the charger that was closer to their car and stretch it to mine.. I start charging and go get some snacks... I'm back in a bit and the vehicle (much larger battery than mine) is still charging, but I have a brain dead moment, walk up to the charger next to my car and hit stop... It stops charging... the other car... So I restart the other charging session with my account to get them charging again... Then I stop the proper one and unplug my car... As I am finishing, the other driver walks up. I do my mean culpa and apologize profusely. Show him I restarted his charging session. He was good with it and thanked me, but was really surprised that I was able to stop his charge...

[@WestCoastChicano]

I've owned a new Bolt for a couple of months and I have yet to use a public charger. I wouldn't unplug someone else's car. I carry a gun daily and I go out of my way to avoid confrontations. Before I started carrying I absolutely would have unplugged someone else's car if their charging session was over. Gr8 topic. 🚙 🇺🇸 🔌 ⚡

[@PJMAColorado]

Don’t touch someone else’s car, first come first serve, leave as soon as you are done… idle fees are the best solution this issue

[@walkerdarin2003]

I was super charging a hertz model 3 and saw a parked model y, in a stall not charging. Curious if I attempted to charge and idle fee their car to get them to move it 😆. Their app would likely warn them. This is of course assuming hitting the button on the charge cable would open the charge door.

[@volcalstone]

Ya have sentry mode so good luck with that hehe

[@Michael-yi4mc]

I would feel the cable for the amount of heat to know the progress of the charging cycle. I used to drive an electric forklift at the post office and would choose the cool cable with a warm battery. That battery is at the “finishing rate “ at a slow amp flow right before it shuts off. A very warm cable is about halfway charged.

[@BillB33525]

Have seen someone pressed all the emergency stop buttons @ an EVgo station. Resetting the red buttons brought the dispenser back online.

[@IraWade]

The Ionic 5 has a lock setting.

[@dscarty]

How do you know if the EV is finished charging? Seems like with CCS chargers it’s easier to know. I had an experience where a Lady would have unplugged my Tesla if she could have (had a plastic no release collar on the adapter). It was difficult for her to know by looking at my Tesla whether it was done charging (but charger was still humming away). I spoke with her later. She was unhappy because she was almost out of juice. By the way, Teslas will notify the owner of the car is unplugged.

[@BogeyTheBear]

Blue light = Charging Green light = Completed Charging

[@sctexan5392]

Kyle, learned something new, I thought only the owner could release the cable. Why would you leave your car if anyone could unplug your car. That would be another negative to EV ownership...no locking charger.

[@HoldFastFilms]

Personally, I wouldn't unplug someone's else's car but would not mind if I was fully charged and someone used my plug. I don't feel like they are touching my car by unplugging the cord. Sadly, it will take a long time for this to be corrected as this problem exists at gas stations. Not the pulling out someone else's nozzle but people do park at the pump and go inside to shop start cleaning their car, using up a spot etc.

[@josilver]

The problem is the people leaving their car unattended and fully charged, not the people who have to react to it.

[@simonthebroken9691]

It's full. Public service to save the full ev overage fees.

[@pfunk768]

An aspect of this that wasn't discussed is exposing the charge port to dust and or rain. At least on a Rivian, you can't close the AC charge port without unlocking the vehicle. Otherwise i don't mind someone unplugging me but i don't want my charge port left exposed. IIRC this is another area that Tesla (and perhaps only Tesla) got right. It automatically shuts shortly after removal. Tesla also makes it easy to open the charge flap without touching the person's vehicle. Like someone leaves their car next to a free L2 charger and obviously wants to charge after you. Tesla makes it easy for someone to do that, others like Rivian (without a secondary flap) don't.

[@fentonfun]

Policy at charging stations. If at 80%, there should be equivalent to an idle fee that starts at 80%, and charging can be stopped at 80%.

[@ab-tf5fl]

It's rare, but I have been in situations where I really did have no choice but to charge to 100% in order to safely make it to the next charger. For travel along interstates, this is generally not necessary. But, when you're about to leave the interstate and drive 200 miles down back roads, it often is. I hope, at some point, to have enough DC chargers available on the back roads that charging to 100% before leaving the interstate is no longer necessary, but that's still years away.

[@walterwareiii3164]

A car should be able to charge to 100% . We should not have to be limited to not filling the battery if they need to. Some EVs don't have a lot of range and might need it. Unless there is a gas shortage you don't pull up to a gas pump and it says you are limited to 3/4ths of a tank. It's silly to suggest so.

[@alanviolet4102]

Can't unplug most EV's without unlocking the car.

[@barryw9473]

If no session was ever enabled, cable comes out every time.

[@ScubaSteveCanada]

Not true at all.

[@djwhiteflour]

I always question what is the firmware setup on the car that is finished charging, my Kona can be selected to unlock or not after charging is completed. It would be embarrassing for me to try to pull the charger and have it locked, both for myself and for the other car. Why would you not have it unlocked after you are finished charging?!

[@WarpedFlayme]

As an owner, I wouldn't mind someone who needs it unplugging my car if I'm finished charging, but I don't think I'd be comfortable doing it to someone else. 😅

[@CounterFleche]

Proper etiquette for a shared, scare resource is to not tie it up when not using it. Someone showing a lack of this etiquette is not entitled to expect everyone else to sit idly by and wait. Unplugging should be expected. Leaving a car plugged in while full is tacit approval to be unplugged.

[@ScubaSteveCanada]

Etiquette? Where, exactly, is this "rule" written down? There needs to be official signage on the app and charger.

[@markrichards9792]

New year's eve a polestar pushed at a charger downtown so he could have a good free parking spot. There were 5 cars waiting to charge. I definitely had words with him when he got back at 12:15 (I was finally charging next to him)

[@ScubaSteveCanada]

That person will do it again.

[@tomm5936]

Agree we need higher idle fees. I have unplugged to charge my car. I have also had someone unplug my car because it had finished so fast. The guy apologized but I told him it was perfectly fine and I have set my EV6 to not lock a CCS cable.

[@volcalstone]

I have an EV6 as well and have it set to unlock when it's done. The EA or Kia Connect does notify you when it's done too.

[@johnbev2336]

How would you like to be waiting, put yourself in there shoes. All apps shows the length of charging, that’s no excuse. They should be charged £1 for the five minutes then double.

[@garrettkajmowicz]

I'm going to disagree with the cast. If you are certain a car has finished charging and there are no other available working chargers at the site, then yes, you are free to unplug a car. You don't get to abuse shared infrastructure. Much like if you are at a very busy gas station, once you are done filling you should move your car to a non-filling spot in order to go into the station to buy snacks, etc.

[@yolanda4731]

Agree with Max - need “Urban superchargers” at malls and big box stores. 150kw+ chargers at gas stations and Starbucks.