Avoid Slow Charging In The Cold! Here's Why You Have To "Yo-Yo" Your EV Heading To DC Fast Charge

[@widgeonrblx8543]

This was a critically informative video that every EV driver needs to watch.

[@witness1013]

What do drivers in Florida need to know this?

[@dorvinion]

@@witness1013 without precondition it will charge slower than it otherwise could in Florida too

[@davidwalker72]

Owned my Bolt for 2 minnesota winters... done a few winter road trips and HOW DID I NOT KNOW THIS! Thanks! 👍

[@shockerzevworld5911]

Nah, I don’t play these silly games with my Tesla.

[@shockerzevworld5911]

All these silly games I’m glad I don’t have to do with my Tesla.

[@nickoverton3566]

This works, I did this on my EV6 this past weekend in Wisconsin. Had a drive from Milwaukee to Wisconsin Dells, on the way there I stopped in Madison to charge and got ~50 kw. On the way home, not wanting to stay as long there at the charger, I Yo-Yoed for about 10 minutes on the freeway when I could, I peaked on that charge at 150kw, I was there for less than half the time and got more charge. I only knew to do this by watching your videos.

[@baconsledge]

Wow, impressive. Fun to play games with a stupid car.

[@ari197]

to be fair, the 1st charge would've heat up your battery already .. not saying that the yoyo didn't help, it certainly helped, but in your condition, it wasn't the only thing that makes the 2nd charge went faster ..

[@jceess]

@@baconsledge Yes.jpg

[@Blahblahblacksheep375]

Ev6 comes with battery pre-conditioning right? Or you're sue the firmware update? I got my ioniq 5 battery pre-conditioning update and still didn't feel much difference. Probably I have to check the settings again.

[@faithosadebe5293]

@@Blahblahblacksheep375 go watch is video on ioniq 5 new update and guidelines how to use it.. You can also view ioniq guy channel also for more information

[@mnorma12]

Hilarious! I just tested this out on my ID4 last week after seeing Kyle do it in a previous video. Worked great, helps to have CarScanner going to watch the battery temp in real time. Come on VW get us some real preconditioning!!

[@RedBearAK]

The Tesla Bjorn guy demonstrated this kind of thing in Norway a couple of years ago. It’s a quick way to warm up even a Tesla that’s been left out in the cold with a low state of charge. Really cuts the time needed for warming up the battery, even on a Tesla Supercharger. Because you’re warming the battery from the inside out, basically, not just trying to heat it up externally. There will be some waste heat from the motors heating up, but I don’t think that’s what does the bulk of the heating work.

[@junkerzn7312]

It'd be nice if you connected up an OBD2 unit to the vehicles, you can get the battery temps (even down to individual packs). Lots of cool data, actually. The ID.4 will also report consumer power consumption separately from the drive/regen power consumption. Plus, you can also get data on the coolant loop temps, cicrulation pumps, etc.

[@curryuno295]

I can feel the cold just by watching this video. Thanks for going out and making these videos for us, even though they don't apply to me being in CA and complaining about being cold in 55 degrees F.

[@MiguelRodriguez-nt5eq]

We were subzero temps in Ohio for a week about a month ago. When the cold broke and temps got into the 20s and 30s it felt like a spring day at 65..lol

[@rmorales1029]

Not all of CA is warm like the media portrayals. I’m currently in South Lake Tahoe. It is 19 degrees.

[@HenryBabcock]

My gf complains it's too cold when it's 68°.

[@rp9674]

We should do the reverse, slow accel & regen

[@m3tek44]

Once again thanks for putting this video together! Amount of logistics (charing overnight and finding same year vehicle, coordinating time of the day). Really appreciated!

[@ChuckJ1944]

This is great educational video! Battery temperature is so important when charging. My Taycan likes 93 degreeso I make sure that it's 93ﾟ when I hit the charger. One of the best features of the Taycan is that it has a battery temperature gauge. I can't figure out why all electric cars don't have a battery temperature gauge.

[@csorrows]

They don't because the majority of EVs are built and designed for simple people, not techies.

[@ChuckJ1944]

@@csorrows Sad

[@declancrego2506]

Also unnecessary if the car has a good BMS and preconditioning.

[@John__Wayne]

Did she says she’s living in an apartment now? Did I miss something?

[@CandycaneBeyond]

WTHeck??

[@SueC56]

I'm always curious about these things too but being a retired Healthcare professional I know that personal information is on a need-to-know basis. 😊

[@matthewryonadams]

Maybe she goes to work or school in another city. Their relationship is none of our business.

[@teslatim78]

Wait, what??? Alyssa your in an apt now???????

[@tonipepperoni77]

Why did Alyssa say apartment….. don’t you both live at the house?

[@HelloSwiftful]

She needed the extra space for the doggo's 😄

[@danielcapizzano5805]

Are you guys no longer together? 😢 I know that’s your personal business, but somehow I’ve grown to like you both and your connection/relationship through these videos over the years. Couple goals

[@anthonyscott5134]

I was wondering the same thing when She mentioned about her apartment!

[@Darrenraitt]

My guess is that they moved house ... 🤔

[@wrxdrunkie]

Wondering the same thing 😬 I slow mowed looking for a ring and didn't see anything.

[@anthonyscott5134]

@@Darrenraitt , but she said my garage, not our garage.

[@anthonyscott5134]

@@wrxdrunkie , I did the same thing.

[@GregHassler]

The good 'ole Bjorn Nyland yo-yo technique. I do it in my Model 3 sometimes just to get rid of the snowflake. Works pretty well after stomping on it a few times.

[@brady783]

I've been trying the yoyo method this winter during my frequent road trips in my Niro. In cold temps, I used to plug in and get 40kw speeds until it warmed up, rarely getting over 59kw peak. Now, I yoyo the car during the last 5 or 10 miles before the charger and get 55kw starting speeds and it ramps up to the peak of 77kw quicker. Not an insignificant difference in a car with slower charging speeds, made worse in cold weather.

[@johnperduloski]

Nice video!!! Very informative on cold charging! Side note the Mach E AWD with 3.6.2 OTA has preconditioning in the Ford Nav……20 miles out from DCFC.

[@stuartauvinen3530]

This is an excellent video ! A well thought out test and a useful result Fast charging was 3x faster with yo-yo preconditionng, and has a 4x faster initial charging power My only concern with the test is that one EA charger can be faster than another EA charger so I would prefer to have both cars charge on the same charger maybe swapping chargers halfway if there wasn’t a line Kyle did address this by moving the slow car to the faster charger and getting about the same charging power and also noticing that another ID.4 was getting 50 kW which is faster than the slow car but still half of the yoyo car

[@Mountain-Viking]

16:45 Yea man. She's so good putting up with you, she deserve a win.

[@kqschwarz]

Bjorn Nyland had shown a bunch of videos maybe 5 years ago where he discussed yo-yoing the car to improve cold weather charging in early model Teslas without pre-conditioning. he never made a comparison like this and I thought at the time that it might be a bunch of baloney, but you have scientifically proven that it is possible to improve charging, albeit with 30-min of nausea inspiring yo-yos. The big question is what does yo-yoing do to the battery health, which is something you eluded to, but we still don't have an answer. If yo-yoing creates dendrites in the battery, then that could be very bad for the longterm battery health, but we just don't know yet. Great job on the video. Thank you for all your hard work.

[@Datlore001]

If this had been posted an hour earlier I would've given it a try. Instead, I spent an hour taking my pre-preconditioning EV6 from 19% to 80% at the crappy King Soopers EA station in Englewood. To be fair it was 9 degrees outside but man, Kia America needs to give the early EV6 owners the preconditioning update ASAP.

[@skyemalcolm]

I totally agree. I have a Feb 2022 build date EV6 and I’m basically not bothering to road trip right now because 30 kW is way too freaking slow to put up with. Kia of America is straight up incompetent to not be able to incorporate what Kia of Europe did almost 4 months ago. So frustrating.

[@Datlore001]

@@skyemalcolm Absolutely. I sat at 30kW for a good 20 minutes before the car went up to about 60kW, then it bounced a bit before topping out at 115 at the end of the charge. Lucky for me I was able to do a little grocery shopping but I will not be making any road trips either until we get this update. I emailed Kia and got the stock BS response.

[@skyemalcolm]

@@Datlore001 I’ve emailed them and got no response. I called their help line and patiently explained the problem and asked for a response one way or the other and they never got back to me. That was a month ago.

[@ArtiePenguin1]

Due to the 800-volt architecture which has less overall heat loss between the battery and the motor, the technique of "yo-yoing" does almost nothing for the Kia EV6. You really need the battery preconditioning update which will fire up the 5 kW battery heater 30 minutes before you get to a charger. Again, yo-yoing doesn't do much for E-GMP cars. This video is really only for 400-volt class cars.

[@MrSportauspuff]

@@ArtiePenguin1 I don’t agree with this, In the beginning of this winter I drove yo-yo with EV6 came in with 3% charged at 230kW from start but it started to overheat at around 35% and went down to 180kW. So YES you really can Yo-yo a 800V vehicle no problem, but you need work it a little bit harder.

[@AmitPatel_.]

Awesome experiment! I'd love to see the same thing done with a car that supports preconditioning. One car having preconditioning on vs the other car having it off on the way to the charger.

[@LearningFast]

It is important to note that the battery temperature needed for efficiency is totally different than the battery temperature needed for fast charging. Typically my 2022 Tesla Model 3 Performance preheats to 70 F when Preheating at home. However, I monitor the temps when supercharging and it gets as high as 143 F. Yo-Yoing definitely helps but it won’t do quite as much as true “Preconditioning” with a Tesla.

[@thenerdyarab7622]

I always thought Kyle and Alyssa lived together

[@dorvinion]

I'm surprised that they would not ship with battery conditioning en-route to a charger as a standard feature. Its almost seems like a sabotaging decision I can't imagine trying to travel w/o preconditioning in winter. Really cannot stress how much of a difference it makes. Our last road trip in really cold weather, around -10C/15F in our MYP. Preconditioned for about 20 minutes prior to departure. After driving 2 hours at normal highway speeds, on-route preconditioning(26 minutes duration) we got a fairly normal charging curve and were on our way in 27 minutes (this was a scheduled breakfast stop so the car was ready to leave before we were) This same day (now closer to 32F) we arrived at our turnaround point for the day and had to park for about 2hrs before I could visit a fast charger. A lot of thermal mass so It was still somewhat warm Just a couple minutes of precondition and we again got a normal charge curve. On the whole for a 620mil/1000km day the cold really didn't change things much - maybe 20 minutes extra overall vs summer.

[@Tomaskom]

Most cars with no preconditioning and NCM cells work fine if you start with full-ish battery. Highway driving helps the most, but even normal 90km/h roads are enough to warm it up to usable level as you drive. That's the most important thing in my opinion, charge to near full on AC before you need to head out in extreme cold. Also the charging process helps warm it up a bit, especially near 100% when cell voltage balancing kicks in (which is simply extra waste heat). As a practical example, while not that terribly cold - around freezing overnight, I drove 140km over 1.5h (only 20% highways) with my e-208, which used 61% (95 to 34%), with a starting temp of 7°C in the pack (thanks to the AC charging prior) and 18°C at the end. That's 11°C increase, and I'd bet it would be 15˚C extra near the bottom end of the battery and 20-25°C increase if 100% highway too. Even in the worst conditions of -10 or -15°C, the first charge on the way after depleting most of the battery would be at least OK speed (plan a lunch break there maybe) and any further ones would be with absolutely no issue. Especially with higher proportion of highways than what I had. Also at lower temp, the internal resistance of the cells is higher, meaning faster initial warmup while driving. That being said, no preconditioning capability IS a major downside. If you know how it behaves, it's not that big issue, even without having to Yo-Yo, which I'd take as an emergency measure. But it's a fail to lack preconditioning when it comes to the average consumer, ordinary people don't want to become knowledgeable geeks to use their vehicles without issues in any and all weather conditions.

[@janjer5361]

It’s coming in one of the next updates

[@dorvinion]

@@Tomaskom yeah I know driving does warm the battery a bit. My experience with a Tesla is that's just not enough to get great fast charge speeds. Probably chemistry differences

[@Tomaskom]

@@dorvinion AFAIK Tesla scavenges the battery heat to warm up the pasaanger cabin, at least the newer TM3 does. That might be the reason why it won't warm up by itself much.

[@SueC56]

2024 has pre conditioning

[@gordoncrichton7657]

Brilliant video In Uk we have the issue of drivers recharging at less than 50kw at 300kw chargers and charging to 100%. They are beginning to annoy me big time.

[@timoliver8940]

This is even a problem on 50kW chargers where people plug their car in at 0830, walk to the office nearby then come back at 5pm to a fully charged battery but nobody else has been able to use that charger all day long…………….. recently we have had parking wardens monitoring them and issuing tickets but as of 1st Feb locally we will move from free charging to 35p/kW on 22kW and above chargers with a 40 minute timed stay with a £1 a minute overstay fee on their Chargepoint Scotland account - hopefully that will make charging easier for the rest of us who practice ABC and The Out of Spec routing method!

[@gordoncrichton7657]

@@timoliver8940 in the Uk, some charge £10/90 mins. After the first 90mins. Maybe call the provider of the charger and suggest this. But yeah I would be screaming. I go up to people an eye ball them if they are over 80% and ask they how long they are going to be. It seems to be the German brand, BMW drivers in particular. They are buying the ix40 and it does not seem to be a road trip car.

[@101rotarypower]

How can they leave preconditioning functionality out of a 2022 car?

[@mikemaleki9063]

I tried this multiple times in last few days. It's a game changer 🙌. Thanks for sharing this info.

[@mmayo1320]

Always love your videos Kyle and Alyssa 😀. I've only had my ID.4 for a week and it's not cold so I haven't had to yoyo her yet. One thing I have learned watching (while I waited for reservation) is I drove recently towards Seattle did not charge above 80% and kept on driving to next charger as needed.

[@adamchoi8136]

That’s amazing results! Surprised vw hasn’t offered preconditioning for its cars yet.

[@BijanJamshidi]

Maybe I just take supercharging for granted because it always works and the process just feels normal, but this video made me appreciate my Model 3 LR much more. I would DIEEEEEE if I was charging ~30kW at 24%.

[@craig8638]

I’ve experienced big differences at charging stops for different stations. For example, station one 135 kw and station 2 right next to it only 65 kw. Could that be at play here?

[@gandmemoney]

Was driving in Florida in Volvo c40 got to Gainesville electrify America station and everyone was down. Not enough power to travel to next stop. Had to go to a Volvo dealer to charge was so slow spent 2.5 hours so I could drive 50 miles to next charger.

[@declansdad]

One thing I've noticed with my ID4, once the battery SOC is below 20%, I get phenomenal charging speeds (always over 100 kW--once got 157 kW at 9% SOC). It may be a coincidence, but I'm starting to put the Target State of Charge to 100% before I start to charge--now I don't charge to 100%, but I feel the computer will allow faster charging versus if I leave the target state of charge at 80%.

[@rahulmodasa]

Wow that is good analysis .!! I noticed the same that getting more than 125kwh here in NJ when battery Soc is below 20%. Set to 100 but stop at 80 would do the trick.

[@JDDevice]

Are you in a cold weather state?

[@rahulmodasa]

@@JDDevice New Jersey

[@danielscarpine9652]

Same - 100% agree the charging curve is very steep at lower state of charge, I also get huge difference when below 20% SOC. Have seen 181kW at 12% SOC. Kyle, I like your videos and have learned a lot from them, but this one is a terrible, totally flawed 'experiment', starting at 2 different states of charge and then connecting to a 150 / 350 kW hardware. Also you can get an ODB scanner for $100 and then know the two vehicles' battery temperature. You'dul data to share. Parting thought - it seems like a lot of your videos you rip on ID.4 owners for being uneducated and now you're suggesting they drive completely recklessly for 10 mins before they get to a charger.... feeding the myth.

[@concinnus]

Even if you can yo-yo safely, preconditioning with a good heat pump (so, not VW's) is still much better. It moves heat from the air to the battery so you drain the battery less.

[@SueC56]

The 2024 VW ID models say they now have battery preconditioning

[@CrumResearch]

temp was -23 degrees F here in Perersboro Utah this morning, and -62 degrees F at Peter Sinks just 45 miles away in the Bear River range of mountains here.

[@newjacka94]

Wait why dont yall live together anymore ?

[@harvpa]

How about changing things (yo-yo'd car goes to 150kw charger, or yo-yo the other car) and verify the results? Might be that the particular EA charger was just slow for some reason.

[@JakeGuilbo]

The VWTechnician on id4 forums gave the specific formula needed to ensure max charging speed. Battery temp has to be somewhere above 68F and SOC < 22%. This, of course, was for 2021 ID4s, no idea if this has changed for the 2023s. Looks like for battery temps < 54F it maxes out at 65kW, 63F will get to 100kW and 68F is needed for max DCFC.

[@simonthebroken9691]

Thank you 😊. Really helps when you guys do this kinda testing.

[@RonRattie]

I have used this method when driving up to Penn State to visit/pickup my son. I've yo-yo'd to the mid-point in 20 degree weather and have been able to get full 125kW at the charger.

[@14u2nv9]

At her apartment?? Are you guys no longer together??

[@jmleon92]

I caught that too

[@gersonmets]

that was my first thought too

[@andyschmidt7413]

I picked up on that too! What is happening, the two are such a good couple.

[@anthonyscott5134]

Same here! I caught that too!

[@jacecole]

Yup, came in the comments for the same question. Kyle what’s going on?!?

[@e-redj]

It’s totally fine, the car lets you only get as much power as it is comfortable with. You will not be able to draw to much power out of the battery. In comparison an ICE car that is parked outside at those temperatures will have really thick oil in the pan, if you rev it like crazy it won’t be good for the engine, as the oil pump won’t be able to pump that thick oil everywhere in the right amount, but nothing will control if you rev the car to fast or if you rev it to high.

[@CheddarKungPao]

Super great video. I have read that VW claims that preconditioning isn't needed because the battery is always supposed to go to 77 F. Clearly half an hour of driving wasn't enough time for that to happen. I wonder if an hour or 90 minutes would be or if VW is just messing with us?

[@chrisshinkle7224]

Well, it's not like VW has a recent history of blatantly lying to it's customers...hey wait a minute!!!

[@uhjyuff2095]

it would go to 77 if plugged into the charger I assume, otherwise if it went to 77 when not plugged in you would wake up to an empty battery every morning.

[@4rwayner7]

I just lost 15% overnight at about 25 degrees F. Something is going on and very annoying because I don’t drive every day.

[@LarryRichelli]

I have a model 3 P and I bought the S3XY buttons. One of the things you can turn on is with them is Pre Conditioning. I like this because I am going to a friends house that has a tesla charger I can charge faster during my visit with my manual pre conditioning

[@StephenFungOK]

I knew this worked. I've been doing this forever. But I didn't have the patience to document it. Thank you :D

[@brandti1367]

One thing to mention is that of course MEB cars have a primitive kind of en route battery precondition. It just neither can be activated manually, nor is it linked to navigation to a fast charger. As far as I know, cars with software 2.3 or lower ALWAYS try to heat up the battery to approx. 10°C (50°F) if starting below approx. 8°C (46°F), using a resistive 6kW battery heater, which causes a high consumption on short slow trips in cold conditions. Starting with software 2.4, to reduce consumption in winter, the battery is only heated to 0°C (32°F). This means for cases like in the video that 1) even driving slowly for 30min is better that going to the carger right away 2) some (I'd guess something like 25-30%) of the realtively high consumption Alyssa saw was due to the battery heater running for probably half an hour. 3) Doing an AC-charge (e.g. 50-80%, but anything helps) at home right before a trip starts will result in higher range than charging the afternoon before, because less (or even no) energy has to be spent to get the battery to 0°C and the battery will be warmer at the first charging stop as well. Edit: The battery needs something like 20°C (68°F) for full fast charging speed. Edit2: Another video I just happened to find says that in the newer software, only 1.5kW is used to heat the battery while driving if below 0°C

[@outlook888]

Live in a place where winter is very cold, very useful information. Always have a concern on the battery of EV cars, looking for every possible solution to make it serve longer

[@bsulivan6435]

You folks should do some testing out here in Nevada during the summer to see how the batteries hold up to our 115°F temperatures.

[@nealwilcox4897]

I’m pretty sure that Kyle has misinterpreted his observations. First, the ID.4 has a battery heater and will heat the battery to 46 degrees F. Usually, it hits this temperature pretty quickly. I don’t know for sure, but I believe that even at 3 degrees it would hit this temperature in 30 min. If he had equipped the cars with OBD dongles we could have known the temperatures and could have seen whether yo-yoing increased the temperature. I would imagine that a very low temperatures, adding heat through the internal resistance of the battery would be offset by the battery heater adding less heat because you’re at the set point of 46. The way the car stayed at 30 kW charging is almost proof that this was a bad charger.

[@SirHackaL0t.]

I’ve done Yo-yo-ing to warm a battery but in the extreme cold I liken it to running 100M in 10 seconds without stretching first. It’s likely to do damage to the batteries as they are cold. My Tesla uses 7kW of power to gently warm the batteries via the two motors and the cooling circuit to move that heat into the battery pack.

[@mixilflic]

I tried my ev6 tonight, 1°F. Yo yo 5-15 miles, 35-55mph sport mode and max regen. 150kwh EA charger. Plugged in 37kwh than dropped to 33. Also I had been driving for several hours too.

[@JDDevice]

Funny enough, I've being doing this with my Bolt EV here in Canada with no reference to it making a difference. But I'm glad to see I was on to something. I also run my climate higher with fan speeds reduced. My thought process is the heat will be generated, but won't disperse into the cabin as quickly, so it will stick around in the battery/motor area. Lol. But it may also be robbing the battery heating, so I'm not sure if it's helpful. Hey Kyle, maybe that's another test you could run. Max the heater out and lower the fan speeds, so the heat stays in the drivetrain area🤷. If that works, it may be a safer alternative for the less skillful drivers on ice.

[@COSolar6419]

Of course it is Kyle that gets to yo-yo. If you have a chance, try that YoYo tactic on an Ioniq 5 or EV6. I have heard rumors that it doesn’t have much effect on the 800 volt EVs. They have battery preconditioning available so it is less of an issue. BTW if you primarily use Level 2 chargers at home or work, cold temperatures are not an issue. Plus you won’t need be waiting around while charging.

[@SkaBob]

At least here around Seattle a cold day is 38, a really cold night is 25 and that isn't very often. Most of the winter is 44 and rain, single digit temps happen maybe once every 20 years if ever.

[@silentjohn80]

I hope this leads to car manufacturers add battery preheating, just a button to start it manually is much better than nothing. I don't think a lot of yo-yo drivers is what we want...

[@ErikvanLennep]

Nice video and a good explenation on how to do pre-conditioning sort of manually. When i do a long trip around 0 degrees Celcius, i noticed from other videos that going on the highway around the 130km/h will keep the battery warm enough to maintain the 25 degrees celcius it needs to be at its fastest (75kw). Driving faster and regen more did also do the trick for me a few times. One question, the "slow charging" ID4 looked like it didn't even try to warm up the battery. I am no expert on the ID lineup, but most cars go faster in charging after roughly 30min of charge even if the battery percentage is higher. It looked like the "slow" id4 never got its batteries warmer, because even at 60 % it should eventually reach around 60kw. Do you know what happened?

[@MarcWagner86]

I heard that ID4 supports preconditioning hardwarewise and that VW is working on implementing it in the software.

[@brandenflasch]

Preconditioning (ideally automatically) or manually via yo yo is so important

[@phil4986]

Great to know this new information. You are the first person I have ever seen recommend this and that it worked is a great help to all ev owners in cold climates. Great video.

[@jb3246]

Maybe you should default to the heat being on for cold charging. I've done a few road trips in my M3 this winter. HUGE difference when charging in the cold. Would be nice to have more insight into cold charging speed - such as differences in navigating to Supercharger that is 15 minutes away vs. 60 minutes away vs. 120 minutes away.

[@csorrows]

120 hours on a single charge?

[@jb3246]

@@csorrows thanks. 120 minutes = 2 hours. made the correction.

[@JTube571]

Who plugs into a fast charger at 80%? The Lightning owner has some learning to do yet.

[@jonaitken]

This is great. Love your videos. I have a Jaguar ipace 2019 and I’m sure it can’t precondition the battery.

[@mp3mike237]

While you used significantly more power getting there, in the end it took about the same amount of power to charge. You used ~2.5kWh more, so it cost you about $0.77 more, but it saved you 40 minutes of charging. Seems like money well worth spending.

[@SoJa92]

If it's bad to fast charge a cold battery, I would assume it's bad to constantly regen a cold battery. During peak regen you're probably putting 50-80kW back into the battery. My PHEV 2nd gen Chevy Volt can regen at 50kW during extended hard braking so full electric cars probably do a bit more.

[@dorvinion]

Regen is limited to a safe amount by the vehicle when cold.

[@SoJa92]

@@dorvinion but it could be limited with the assumption it would be used sparingly only during normal braking. Repeatedly doing high regen on a cold battery may not be caught by software to limit the damage. But this is all speculation, if you own your car do what you want. I wouldn't yoyo my car unless I absolutely had to.

[@uhjyuff2095]

@@SoJa92 Yeah, I agree with you about the regen damage. Instead, if I needed to "yoyo" I would set regen to off which is probably not an option and just use the brake pads to slow down and then speed up to add heat into the battery. And if its not an option, then sell it and get a preconditioning option equipped EV.

[@dorvinion]

@@SoJa92 Without scan my Tesla I can't be sure, but it feels like battery needs to be above 32F before it regens anything. Leaving one EV outside this winter and seems to only Regen 1-5kw... Just enough to offset the cabin heater. Never yo-yo ours because ours does have a battery heater.

[@SoJa92]

@@dorvinion yeah thats what I would expect. In the vid it looked like the id4 was allowing most of its regular regen while cold.

[@Longsnowsm]

The lesson here is buy a EV that understands pre-conditioning!

[@rahulmodasa]

One doesn’t have to precondition battery all time. Only when you want to make long trip and do not have enough charging to hit the road after overnight or longer parking situation.

[@darwinboor1300]

And, if you are going to need to supercharge, always charge at the end of the day while the car is still warm rather than first thing in the monrning when the car and battery are at their coldest.

[@johnpoldo8817]

Excellent lesson on DC fast charging an EV. I always use the Tesla GPS so it preconditions battery. Which EVs don’t offer battery preconditioning?

[@proudvirginian]

Holy crap!!!! That's amazing.. I will be giving this a try on my one hour drive to work Wednesday.

[@SjurLohne]

Battery temp is so critical! I just don’t understand why the manufacturers don’t show the temperature in the infotainment system along with battery % and kWh

[@suvari225]

Imagine one day you are driving on the interstate and all cars are yo yo ing

[@garyclark6747]

Be interesting to see two AWD IONIQ 5 Limited (2022 non-preconditioning update and a 2023) energy consumption with Yo-Yo vs Preconditioning. 23:40

[@junkerzn7312]

Floor it, full regen, floor it, full regen (sirens begin blaring in the distance)... floor it, full regen, floor it full regen (sirens get closer, flashing lights show up in the distance both in front and behind)... floor it, full regen, floor it full regen. The goal of this exercise? Be able to charge the car up before the flashing lights converge on your location! Ready? Go!

[@michaelo5528]

This was a fantastic video. The Blue cameo was icing on the cake!

[@michimannes7822]

So did you yoyo the car 30 min before the stop? Or only like the last 15 min? How long should I do that if I already drove for 150km / 90 miles before?

[@richard--s]

I don't know, what is less stressful to a battery? Charging when cold with the reduced charging speed that the car allows anyway? Or yo-yoing the car with massive discharging-charging cycles by driving? The best solutions would be (1) to fast charge the battery as long as it's still warm at the end of a longer drive - when possible. Or (2) to charge the car slowly over night - when possible. (2) is better - when possible ;-)

[@leeklemetti1887]

I thought of trying that with my 2012 PRIUS3. But I'll probably use up a lot of fuel doing that as the ICE is working hard to heat the engine and charge the small NMIH battery. I usually start with the fan off for 3 miles as the engine warms up and only cold air comes from the heater. I set the heater to 80 deg to get the heat going. Regen occurs when I release the throttle like a regular EV. After several miles, there is heat enough to turn down the heater. Since gasoline charges the battery I don't have to wait for the battery to charge. Fuel mileage is 50 mpg in the summer, in winter it may go down to 35 or 40 mpg.

[@SoJa92]

If VW doesn't add preconditioning after this video idk what they are doing.

[@craig8638]

The Lightning is great up to 80%. After that it drops waaaayyyy off.

[@ArianaTheCutestDoe]

I’m gonna try this on my RWD 2022 Ioniq 5…..because I live at an apartment with no garage and no at home charger….so I’d like that faster charge in the winter right about now lol. It’s sad that my car is the only us one without pre conditioning.

[@PetersenPetersen-jv1se]

Great Video👍🏻 Can you create a summary sheet with charging values / charging speed values depending on“ battery preheat“?

[@thestellarinc7734]

Every one of these out of spec videos makes me appreciate my Tesla that much more. From the car engineering, the updates, and the people at superchargers seem to be more considerate than those at these EA chargers. Im sure the reason Kyle doesnt do very many Tesla videos is because not much to talk about when it just works.

[@davidberndtsson9141]

How long do you have to jojo drive before the battery is warm? Do you really have to jojo for 30 minutes?

[@850bimmer]

Since you seem to be doing a lot of testing. How about this. The cold car is charging slow, but have you tried to abort the charging after 5-10 minutes of charging at 35-40kw. Unplug the car, plug in and start a new session? The first 10 minutes or so should have put some heat in the battery. Not sure if the cars charger will adapt to the battery heating while charging. But splitting the charge into two seasons may give you more speed on the second one? Just a thought. I don’t fast charge enough to try this myself.

[@kyleraine2395]

If you do not have enough time to do this, once you get to the charger do you think the battery heats faster with the cabin heater on or off? Would a car with a battery heater warm up faster at the charger than others?

[@paulwharton1850]

Excellent ! I learnt a lot - Thank you so very much for making all these videos - They are extremely helpful.

[@_cjmccullough]

This is a great test! I’ve been waiting for a side by side Video like this! Not ideal but it’s a great option to almost guarantee faster charging

[@cedartreespnw1984]

What would guarantee faster charging would having a EV with a heat pump and the ability to precondition your car while plugged in at home.

[@rexbriggs3251]

How much time does it take to battery condition - for example for rivian or porsche? Battery temp should be a chart in the car dashboard so we know how this works.

[@kittyztigerz]

tell ya full revving that car will make it easy to charger up faster i dont own electric car but i did borrow one just do test it make big difference in baby it vs full revving it im happy that you make video do side by side

[@ulippe]

I drove and charged my ID.4 at -32c so -25,6 f. I'm very interested at your test even if you did it at a prety hot temperature.

[@aatheus]

This video reminded me.. I needed to book in for the 2022 AWD Ioniq 5 pre-conditioning update.

[@chrispenn715]

Interesting all round - especially how much energy the car uses in cold weather - 1.8 miles per kWh was a shock! My local climate rarely drops much below 0 centigrade and my MG4 gets about 3 miles per kWh at that temperature..... Surprised the ID4 doesn't allow you to manually turn on the battery heating?

[@BHBeckenbauer]

Wow I would’ve guessed the faster charger speed would’ve been offset by the extra energy needed. Surprising!

[@EdWord1583]

How does your E-Tron charge in this weather?

[@gperchenko]

just a side question! I thought those charges had issues with cold weather. What changed? Not cold enouph or the issue has been addressed?

[@pedrocaballero1497]

We’re either of running the heater to heat the car cabin? If so, we’re you using the same settings?

[@tommason8104]

I’m not sure how much of the difference in charging rate was due to the chargers. First one was a 150 (the slower realized chargers rate), the other 350. Also, it’s been my experience that even between the same chargers rate capability chargers, they have a uniqueness from chargers to charger. I am not saying that battery temp isn’t a huge factor. Just that using two separate chargers and not the same one, may have a significant impact on the empirical data.

[@shadowmite_0xC0FFEDAD]

My understanding is the cold limits current flow but in general isn't harming the battery much (heat on the other hand is worse). But trying to draw and push high current from/to the battery are one of the hardest things on the pack and do cause degradation. Less than going to 100%, and the cold is likely helping limit the effect. But I think that's the "mode" of degradation that would apply. I would be interested what a "in between" medium yo-yo attempt would achieve without going full throttle and full regen every chance you get.

[@bagged_hag]

Super informative video and pretty amazed by the results! I would love to see a range comparison between the lowered and standard height ID.4. Would be interesting to see if having the car lowered impacts range at all, whether negatively or positively

[@JDDevice]

Should see some gains.. but definitely a video worth watching. We don't all need SUV ride height. We just need SUV interior space for city dwellers like myself. I've only been down a country road once in 15 years, and the Honda CR-Z hybrid I was driving back then handled it just fine.

[@bagged_hag]

That’s what I’m thinking. The lowered car has a SLIGHTLY smaller hole to punch in the air so I’m very curious what kind of impact that has on range. Even if you consistently see an extra 3-4 miles out of an 80% charge that’s the difference between making it to a charger and not potentially. I know Colton mentioned in his purchase video he thought about tossing RSQ8 wheels onto the ID.4. That would be another video I would be super curious seeing to show the range impact of a much larger and wider (probably heavier too) wheel setup on an EV

[@bagged_hag]

@@JDDevice And just like that, Out of Spec Reviews just posted a video comparing the range of the two ID.4s! Kyle must’ve read our minds!

[@JDDevice]

@@bagged_hag LOL. Just saw that. I'll be watching while I DC charge later.

[@hybridstoatdragon]

i got a question for the manufacturer of every car brand. they need to study the effect of this and whether it wears the battery out faster or if it barely effects it. my highschool mechanical experience tells me something is wrong with the logic. my worry (that could just be nothing) is if you 'YO YO' THE CAR TOO HARD AND CAUSE A FIRE. like can a car be yoyo too hard and overheat in the cold. or could you see a significantly bad degrading effect wearing the pack down chemically? lab tests need to be done on this sort of thing so we can see in depth what the pack is possibly doing

[@larryrichmond]

Wow, that's a stark difference!

[@leslarson2642]

Just picked up my 2023 Hyundai Ioniq 5 last Friday, January 27. Have been watching a lot of videos regarding cold weather charging and effects on range. Not sure it really matters locally since the highest capacity charger available is 62 kw. I will be installing a level II charger this week. One question I have is the difference between preconditioning and winter mode on the Ioniq 5. They both affect the range. Thanks for the video.

[@lemongavine]

Just a guess, but winter mode might only warm the battery enough to enable regen, whereas preconditioning heats it a lot more in order to allow faster charging.

[@leslarson2642]

@@lemongavine Good point. Thanks.

[@icebergzero]

I have a '23 Ioniq 5 as well. I believe all '23 I5's with AWD have preconditioning, not winter mode. Preconditioning is by far preferable as it actively heats up the battery before you charge. Winter mode was what the early'22's had and it tried to heat up the battery as you were charging, working far less effectively. Neither of these are a concern if you are using your level 2 charger.

[@leslarson2642]

@@icebergzero Wish the 2023 still had winter mode. The preconditioning is not useful here since (1) there are no high capacity chargers and (2) only limited chargers are listed in the car's map, not the ones that I would actually travel to. To enable preconditioning, I believe I would have to select an available charger, drive to my desired charger, cancel the preconditioning, charge my car at the desired charger. Not really impressed with preconditioning and the limits of the car's charger station selections. Interestingly enough, the desired charging station is at my Hyundai dealership, is the most powerful in the area, and does not show up on the map at all. Probably too new.