NEW! Is this the BEST way to charge an EV?? | What Car?

[@davidfarrell1062]

One thing it does highlight is that Gridserve are not monitoring the chargers. It should have flagged with the guy who answered the phone before you rang (and chances are that the chargers failed for previous customers) and they reboot it or run diagnostics and mark the device as not available to stop wasting customers time and updating apps to say that its offline.

[@coldfire30]

It would have made more sense to let both cars start with same charging state of 80% or 100% and test the different charging strategy only for the charging stops along the route.

[@alberts8075]

The different strategies only matter when charging. But you typically won't arrive with 100% at the hpc. Actually you should aim to charge with a battery as low as possible. Just as done here to mimic an efficient real life.

[@marcuslejona]

They were trying to mimic just arrived from a drive, and one charging to 50, the other to 80 but not really have to drive that distance.

[@scotteverett5932]

@@alberts8075by effectively staggering the start times they immediately introduce a significant variable with London traffic

[@tsint]

How can chargers not restart themselves automatically when they are not working? It can't be that hard to implement some healthcheck/monitoring to avoid a faulty charger.

[@Francis.Wright]

They probably should be rebooted once a week (maybe even every night) at 1 am. Not everyone will phone to say 70% of your chargers aren't working, and they will move on to the next charger if they can.

[@fenegroni]

It’s the difference between chargers that are manufactured by one company, the firmware developed by another, the monitoring software by yet another and then finally managed by yet another company (the provider). None of this nonsense with Kempower or Tesla

[@colinwiseman]

Absolutely agree. If these machines are smart enough to talk to a car, they should be smart enough to know "right, I've not rebooted in 24 hours, I've just finished charging a car, I'll do a quick 5 mins reboot." It's not that hard a bit of logic to programme.

[@Gazmaz]

Is it me or was watching this like watching a couple of automatons having a chat!

[@lemongavine]

How about allowing users to reboot without having to call?

[@thelongfreeride]

Having done a 5,500 mile roadtrip to see the Midnight Sun at the top of Norway in 2023 I can say that the more frequent option is the best. HOWEVER, chargers need to be on the route and, as you discovered, reliable. We were driving a 2016 Tesla model S P90D and so chargers not working was never a problem, fortunately.

[@Gochsener]

Depends on the Car. New Taycan, E Tron & / 800V cars keep high power very long. Other cars like Teslas slow down massively. But you can definitely say, drive faster and charge more is faster!

[@Aztasu]

True. Modern 800V EVs for the win!

[@JoshuaStringfellow1]

The Taycan has a higher charge rate but a more sudden drop off on the curve, from ~300kW to ~220kW at ~65%, and then ~220kW at ~75% to 100kW at ~80%. So while much faster charging overall than the EQE, you'll still want to unplug at 65% or 75% if you're trying to minimise how long you're charging on a lengthy road trip. But what the video could make more clear is that the point you might want to unplug is EV specific, have a look at the curve of your EV than picking 50% or 80%!

[@Gochsener]

@@JoshuaStringfellow1 disagree. 220 kW is still so much faster than stopping one more time and wasting time to get off the highway, plug in etc.

[@JoshuaStringfellow1]

@@Gochsener depends if you're cannonballing or not, but yeah unless you're working out your route with a spreadsheet to break a record it wont make sense for nearly anyone - unplugging at 75-80% will be more than reasonable for most people.

[@krugerdave]

Most Mercedes can hold speed to fairly high SOC, but it starts to dip more at about 70-75%, usually, so holding out for 80% isn't terrible, but it's not optimal.

[@victorseal9047]

I’m an ex Brit living in Québec, where the main charging networks .. Circuit Électrique and FLO ..are superb. In 5 years I’ve never stopped at a charger that didn’t work. The temperatures here vary from -30c to 30c plus in a year so apart from the speed of the charge because of these factors, we are extremely fortunate. Why can the equipment work almost flawlessly in these conditions , yet other countries have problems ?? 😮 I enjoyed the video and found it very informative. Good work. 😅

[@simplygregsterev]

Montreal checking in and spend lots of time in UK. The backbone of CE network is home grown Flo equipment but also 50-100kw. Cheaper to build out but they are upgrading like crazy now. Also since the network is owned by Hydro Quebec they have a service network and partner work that can deploy faster to repair equipment. I once flagged a broken L2 curbside charger and it was repaired within 24hrs

[@victorseal9047]

@@simplygregsterev Saguenay answering. Yes, we are indeed fortunate . I return every few years to the UK but I’ve never used an EV there, I usually borrow one of my son in laws ICE cars.

[@simplygregsterev]

@@victorseal9047 ive done many UK EV trips. Motorway service charging sites can get jammed up. Especially Beaconsfield, Oxford and Reading.

[@victorseal9047]

@@simplygregsterev Yes, the UK are playing catch-up and companies such as the Gridserve hubs sensibly are thinking big. Also, each week I watch the program Tesla Time News and invariably when they report on the new Superchargers Stations opening up in the world there is a new one mentioned in Britain.

[@bigbadthesailor5173]

I beleive our problem here in the UK is not temperature, but damp ... still no excuse for poor charger design!

[@JonathanPalfrey]

I guess this proves how little it matters in the UK as our country isnt big enough to make a noticeable difference! It's interesting you both started on a low charge, in the real world most would leave home on 100% so would only need one stop on a 500 mile journey.

[@emailstomarek]

yes but typically you need to do an emergency drive when you are low on battery. sods law.

[@bondnikunj]

500 mile? No mainstream standard range would drive that far

[@JonathanPalfrey]

@@bondnikunj in a 300 mile range car. leave on 100%, drive about 250 miles, charge once back up to 270 miles, get home with 20 miles spare. If you’re a bit more confident you could drive to 270/280 without an issue then have a shorter charge stop. Basically the exact journey I do in my Tesla for the past 5 years. For a shorter range car you would need two stops.

[@15bit62]

I never noticed when i was living in the UK, but now I drive round from Norway to the UK every summer, and i have to say that the UK really is quite a small place. From the Oxford area where i usually stay, i can get to anywhere in England and Wales in a Model 3 with 1 charging stop (especially with all the motorways now seeming to be de-facto 50mph limits). Hell, John O'Groats to Lands End is only 603 miles. That's the most distant two places in the UK, and for many europeans that's a pretty typical holiday journey - the same as Paris to Barcelona, for example. I do 1800 miles in 3 days when i drive round from Norway.

[@kng128]

​@@bondnikunjLucid Air can drive 463 miles on a charge. Tom Maloughney on State of Charge channel just posted this test.

[@xjdisuehd]

Here in the US, I have a Model Y Long Range, we regularly go on longer weekends to my in-laws about 600 miles away (me, wife, two pre-teens, cat and a small dog). As expected, the car is fully loaded, and we charge to 100% from home, so the first leg is about 200 miles. We charge upto 80% and have set the car to never dip below 15%. Our trip is more or less, like this 1. 100% charged at home. 2. 200 miles. ~3 hours 3. Upto 80% charging, 15-20 minutes. 4. 180 miles. ~2.5 hours 5. 30-35minutes, reach anywhere between 80-90% charge. 6. 220 miles, with 10-12% battery remaining. ~3.25 hours 7. Plug into a level 2, 30 amp plug, car charges to 80% overnight. Give or take, 9.5-10 hours. Before this, we had a 2018 Toyota Highlander Hybrid, and we stopped after about 4 hours into the trip, about 300 miles, exactly halfway. Fuel up, eat, walk dog, piss and on our way, about 35-40 mins. Surprisingly, the Model Y time for the trip, is only about 30-45 mins more than the gas powered highlander hybrid trip. Not that big of a difference, since we start at 5:30am from our home and are at the in-laws around 3:30pm-3:45pm anyways. On a second thought, changing the arrival percentages to zero might reduce our Model Y times further, but I have no desire to hear the dog and the kids whine.

[@snodgee]

In my diesel we would have four 5 minute driver change stops to to the 600 miles

[@ImDavidJames]

But you need to allow for the extra time to get off the motorway. Find the charger. Set it up and then get back on the motorway. So 8 minutes up on charging speed is nothing when each charge could cost you 15 minutes in time just to get to and from.

[@djtaylorutube]

Exactly. Usually when on a very long roadtrip, our stops are breakfast, lunch etc. The car is ready before us so i'll bump the limit up anyway and the outcome of that is that by the time we've finished eating. The car has far more than the original car plan but then drops the next charge as it's not needed.

[@Jepbjer]

Exactly.... Even on charge stations very nearby the highway, it still takes a lot of (non charging) time until you're back driving... Even without que or charger issues

[@mymusic5772]

I fill up my diesel car and travel 450 miles without the need for more fuel,and the majority of that drive is motorway

[@djtaylorutube]

@@mymusic5772Yes we all know this, remember we've all come from ICE! 8 hours driving though, my guess is you stop once or twice. I know I do on drives of that distance and I'll eat. That's when the car charges, simple!

[@andrewlarner6190]

The most important thing is understanding charging curves. Our first EV required running down to less than 10% to get a decent curve. Our new ev we can rock up with anything less than 80% and so we think about when and where to stop with our bladders or belly’s not our battery state of charge.

[@martinwray7001]

Somebody must be deleting the EV hate comments? This is the least stressful ev comments section that I think I've ever seen.

[@pmrose18]

its not hate, its how pathetic all this charging nonsense is, its inconvenient.

[@kalebdaark100]

Really good choice for a video. In the UK, given the size of the island, relatively few people make this kind of trip and wouldn't really be in a position to do this test if they are doing the trip. The starting at 5% seems like a good choice to me, given the unreality of the trip in the first place, in order to test the theory. Obviously in the real world the day would start with 100%, but doing that on an "only" 550 miles in a 300 mile range car wouldn't really prove anything. Now, scary thought, if you were to try it in my 9 year old eNV200 van with it's 24kWh battery and pretty much no battery management....... Interesting video, thanks.

[@paultodd9301]

Q. When quoting charging time, was that just plugging in to unplugging, or the more honest, starting to slow down for the services to reaching cruising speed again? Anyone who watches F1 knows that pit stop time is irrelevant it's the total time lost for the stop that matters.

[@karazorel5923]

When I saw the charge times for these Mercedes I was shocked (34 minutes 5% to 50%, and 57 minutes 5% to 80%) I was expecting much lower times, my Tesla Model 3 2021 SR+, can charge from 5% to 50% in about 11 minutes at a supercharger, It takes about 31 minutes to go from 5% to 80%. it hits 170 kwh max speed for a very brief time at the beginning. The Tesla Chargers are very reliable, and I always plan my stops before I leave on my trips. I also leave with 100% charge because Superchargers are expensive 50 cents a kwh, while at home at off peak i pay only 8 cents a kwh.

[@hansj5846]

Charging speed depends on so many factors that it's impossible to compare. If they repeat this test they'll get a different result

[@weich1q2w]

I should also point that out the one was charing to 50% while the other was charging to 80%. You can charge to 80% relatively quickly but 80-100% is what takes ages. They should redo the test so then someone goes up to 50% and then the other goes up to 100%. In that case there would be an even bigger gap

[@stevehammond9318]

Which strategy is best very much depends on the car and its charge curve and also how close to your route chargers are located, if you have to drive a mile off route for an extra charge stop this can easily scupper any advantage. This may all become moot in a few years since there are already cars that have up to a 5C charge rate so will be full(80%) in less than 10 minutes

[@stephenballantyne]

I've only been watching for 2.5mins, but not just setting off at the same time with 100% SOC seems like a deeply weird decision to have made. Your start point is immediately irrelevant to anyone attempting a journey that long.

[@brei21]

Both of them start with 5% in a video which the purpose is to understand what’s more interesting if charging less, faster and with more stops, or more, longer and avoiding stops. Just imagine you are not leaving from home at 100% but that you need to immediately go back just in the moment you arrived to your destination…

[@stephenballantyne]

@brei21 have to say, I completely disagree. The vast majority of the time the pre-departure charge would be done overnight on some kind of destination charger. Including that in the setting off phase of the journey is weird and unrealistic. As is leaving for a 500 mile journey with only 50% SOC. I get the purpose, but what's the point if you're not going to reflect the reality of how people do long journeys?

[@brei21]

@@stephenballantyne totally agree, that’s why the vast majority of reviews and test are from 100%. It’s also why this test is refreshing as they use exact same cars and conditions to prove other real situations when you can be low battery. The length of the trip itself is not relevant here more that to compare both charging strategies.

[@gavjlewis]

​@@stephenballantyne Well as I don't have any destination charging I can either choose to go via a rapid and charge up the night before. Or set off a bit earlier and charge in the morning. I do both depending on how I'm feeling. I sometimes charge in the morning and have a coffee and read the news on my phone. If I have to be somewhere by a set time I usually charge the night before as this takes away some of the risk if there is an issue with charging. But either way it all starts at a rapid charger. So that's relevant to me, but maybe not you. The 50% charge bit is less relevant as I don't have a massive battery like the Merc. So 50% is only 75-85 miles and I don't want to be stopping almost every hour. So they warn about the 50% strategy, well it's worse as I would have to stop twice as many times as they did. I guess a single day's trip of 550 isn't all that relevant as I have only done one at just over 500 miles since owning an EV. So it's probably only aimed at business people where the only relevant metric is time. With this being true then there are lots of hotels that don't have charging or only a few spaces so many business people might start their day at a rapid charger while they check their emails.

[@stephenballantyne]

@gavjlewis I think whichever way you look at it, it's strange behaviour to start a journey in the morning by saying "right I'm going to go outside now and charge my car from practically zero and I'll set off whenever it happens to reach an arbitrary SOC". Rather than saying "I know I've got a long drive and I want to leave by x o'clock, so I'll get up whenever is necessary so that I can get the car fully charged and set off at the right time".

[@ronaldmelia1172]

Judging from the charging time of the 50% car, it took way too long. My EV6 800v would have done that in around 32 to 50 miniutes

[@MatthewStanford51]

I have to say that in my experience of chargers not on motorway services, it's very rare for a charger not to work

[@paulwaters9212]

The EQE’s charge speed is awful, a lot of ev’s can charge quicker than that, the Ioniq 5 for example can charge 10-80% in 18 minutes and I can confirm that because I have one! Plus you’ll pay considerably less for an ioniq 5 than a merc eqe

[@khaledalhouli8816]

Redo the same with Teslas and Tesla supercharger. You might get more accurate and reliable data!

[@AlanTov]

Yeah but we don't give Musk our money bro. Terrible person.

[@achaz_]

Even better. Do it in France. No imaginable issues.

[@davidlewis4399]

Who in their right mind would buy a Tesla ?

[@jjamespacbell]

You certainly would not have been waiting for the charger to work properly.

[@natewp]

​@@achaz_ I rented an electric car in Bordeaux and it was a nightmare beyond proportions finding an electric charger. Many websites show stations that require membership to use that charger or some chargers were behind closed gates.

[@MrSJBlock]

Remember to add the time for diverting off your route, finding the charger and faffing around starting the charge. That doesn’t change whether you’re adding 30% or 60%. Also need to understand your car’s charging curve. My i3 charges at max speed up to nearly 90% while my XC40 peaks at 20% SOC than ramps steadily downward. BMW - fewer stops, Volvo more short stops.

[@ricco123tube]

I don't understand why everyone makes such a big deal about charging. I just go 20 to 80% which takes around 27 minutes on a super fast charger. This gives me about 3.5 to 4 hours of driving which is more than my bladder and attention span can take in one sitting. Stop for a pee, coffee and a quick walk for the dog and away you go.

[@r1pfake521]

I don't know if this is true but apparently many charging stations are randomly out of order and there are only a few spots which could be taken as more people start to get electrics, I heard rumors of people who had to wait in line until they could charge etc. but of course people talk alot of bs, so I don't know if any of this is true, but people like to gossip and spread the bad things.

[@MatthewStanford51]

​@@r1pfake521Thankfully that's not been my experience

[@Snerdles]

And then you arrive being third in line and suddenly that 30 minutes is an hour 30... Or 3 hours if a person ahead of you is a bolt...

[@AdrianMcDaid]

​@@Snerdlesyou try go to a charging station with several charging posts (if possible )

[@Snerdles]

@@AdrianMcDaid Yeah, of course, you always see dozens of stalls in those small towns in the middle of nowhere, definitely not just a single 50kw charger at one location....

[@ungrim97]

Does the time include time lost coming off the motorway and then rejoining them? Also when on the short stop there isn't enough time to eat, so thats additional time

[@Gdank72]

In the UK this make little difference. At most people travel 400 miles max..... Once a decade. So 1-2 stops max. This information is more useful in America or Europe as trips of 600+ miles are more common.

[@volcalstone]

I will always choose less charging stops period. Less things that could go wrong even if it's going to take longer. I always try to charge at around 5% up until 80% the leave. I rarely charge beyond that unless I need that extra 5% or so to make it to my destination. It depends if there is a line behind me as well. In the US we need more stalls and existing locations first imo before they put in all new ones. Each location should have at least 8 stalls of not 12. I'm talking to you EA! I haven't tried EVgo or any other brands yet but I know I will eventually have to.

[@charlesm8514]

As a Tesla driver the “short stop” strategy is a default approach Tesla cars navigation tend to go for. I often drive from St Albans, across Portsmouth to Caen of a ferry to Bordeaux region in France, and the Tesla navigation would tend to route plan a number of short 20 min stops and also short 10 mins ones. Works well because Tesla super chargers are fast, always works, and plenty of chargers at each stop. Best thing is they are always sideways mounted, so if you have a bike rack hanging on the towbar you can reverse and still plug in with its relatively short cables.

[@djtaylorutube]

and then you hit the traffic around Bordeaux... :)

[@robj3857]

I’ve found several superchargers where I’ve had to remove my 4 bike rack from the towbar to be able to charge. The channel tunnel on both sides is a good example.

[@djtaylorutube]

@@robj3857 Just have your car identify as an iPace or eTron and then block three bays. That's the new normal. 🤣

[@robj3857]

@@djtaylorutube 🤣 I did do that in Germany at an empty charger

[@djtaylorutube]

@@robj3857 I'm going to start doing that at V2 chargers too. I was at a 20 stall V2 site in France, the only car there and along comes a French chap and parked next to me splitting charge. My best (poor) French trying to explain why he should go elsewhere didn't achieve anything. I had to have a micro strop, unplug my car and move along one stall. So that's it, I'm blocking two when there's plenty free from now on!

[@bluebikerathar]

Bjorn nyland does this already years in his 1000 km chllange. I would do the same , more stops ( euh just as i do now) on 800km i need 3 stops , even with with ice.

[@Aztasu]

Yeah because he has no experience with modern 800V EVs with big batteries like new Porsche Taycan or Zeekr 007. It would be fast to just charge longer with them since they charge very fast and/or with a very stable curve. He adopted this strategy because of shitty charge cuves in Teslas which fall off a cliff after 45-50%.

[@richardblayney5898]

@@Aztasuhe has tested all those cars….🤦‍♂️

[@Aztasu]

@@richardblayney5898 lol he did not, he tested first gen taycan multiple years ago, but he did not test the new facelifted Taycan and he also did not test the Zeekr 007 because it is simply not available in Europe. New Porsche Taycan charges with 300kW to 60% and still takes in 200kW at close to 70%. This results in 18min from 10-80%. Facelifted Zeekr 007 charges from 10-80% in under 11min because even tho its charging curve is not as stable as the one from the Taycan, it chages which a much higher peak power of over 400kW and then gradually declines. More than 2 charging stops is kinda stupid in these new generation 800V EVs. But he has no idea anyway because he doesn't seem to understand the power of 800V and is yapping a whole lot of nonesense just to protect crazy outdated Tesla EVs.

[@joachimborgonjon8995]

​@Aztasu . How should he test cars that are not available in a country?

[@paco3953]

A hugely important factor that was neglected in this 'experiment' was the percentage at which you stop to charge. The highest charging power occurs at lower percentages, and you miss out on that when you stop charging at 20%.

[@pauldenney7908]

I always charge to 80%, unless I don't need 80% to get me home. Having been driving EV's since 2017 I have seen the charging network improve but it's also got far more busy at the same time. As far as the shear numbers of different charge suppliers , charger types, app's, cards and range of costs it's still the wild west out there. My advice is never let the battery run too low, never charge past 80% (on public chargers), pick charging spots with multiple chargers, always have a plan B, always have a plan C and leave a large margin of error on your journey time, especially if you have to catch a ferry or a plane. Don't be put off though as your average driver is only going to have to faff about like this a few times a year.

[@USUG0]

indeed, to minimize trip time, the approach is to charge up till when the power taken by the car drops significantly (for a car with 200kW max, the threshold for leaving might be 100kW). And that varies depending on the specific car. And that threshold can be anywhere from 50% to up to 80%

[@fenegroni]

Btw, word of advice: the mistake by Neil was to wait at a non-working charger. if on the ‘short stop’ strategy, never ever wait for a charger to become available: if you are on a short stop strategy, just quickly go to the next one, charge as little as needed if it’s a slower (50kW) charger and then off to the next one immediately: you want to maximise the charges made below 40% or at least below maximum charging speed: some cars sustain high speed charging way past 50% in which case even more important you never ever wait for a charger to become available.

[@t7ank]

Was delay/problem calculated into 1h26min or is this time without the phone call and waiting? how much faster would the silver car be if there were no problems with charging station?

[@ronb4633]

Good thing these guys weren’t trying this test with a Taycan as was used in America. The 50% charges would be less than 10min and no time for these guys to get any food. My average charging time to ~75% was 17.5 minutes when going cross country in USA.

[@crumbschief5628]

Drive fast, charge fast. 54kwh ioniq 5 to South of France, 6 chargers, 2 over lunch and dinner., 1.5 hours slower than the diesel but family preferred the electric and frequent stops.

[@steveyoung8376]

it depends on the car, you need to know your charging curve. it also depends on battery temperature and whether you car preconditions the battery before you arirve at the charging

[@richardbrice6535]

What was the total mileage of each car? One left the motorway more often? Would the car that only stopped twice do as will if they had an elderly passenger or children?

[@andrewnelson7219]

What i would like to know is how much difference was there in prive between charging shorter but more stops to vharge compared to charging for longer but less stops to charge?

[@andreasfahrtelektro7500]

In the real world, I charge my IONIQ 6 (e-GmP 800 V) in 2 times with > 170 kW and I need only 40 minutes for charging. The EQE ist not really a good EV-car. It takes to much kWh / mile and the charging power is not good. In a few months, the A6 e-tron is the best offer vor a long journey.

[@mikeandersonwa]

Just finished my first road trip with our EV, and I found that charging 30-80% worked pretty well for us, that way if a station is offline for whatever reason we have plenty charge to get to another station.

[@leooconnor1820]

I’d love to see this with a Tesla and an Ioniq 5 as they have different charging curves.

[@Aztasu]

With the best 800V charging EVs out there one charging stop will always be the best option, no matter how good the charging network is. Zeekr 007 charges from 10-80% in under 11min. So 70% of SoC in 11min. If you charge from 10-45% twice, so 35% of SoC each time, you might only need 4.5-5min each time but the extra distance you have to drive to and from the charger + connecting to the charger will actually erase this advantage again. Also a different 800V EV with a charging curve like the Porsche Taycan, which holds the charging power above 300kW until 60-65%, while its charging peak is just 320-325kW, also has no real disadvantage of staying longer at the charger. And it's of course way less effort.

[@t.d.5804]

With the newer LFP batteries things are easier. Got an early 2023 BYD LFP in my car (not a BYD car), it charges so good and you can plug it an at any SoC to get high speed (charge curve shifts). 10-80% or 20-90% in 20min. Plug it at 75% at get 176kW (58Kwh battery !). The 2-3 min driving to a charge stop cost more, so charging this battery to only 50% like old NCMs is not needed any more. Main thing: you do not need to run it down to 0% to get fastest charge. NCM times are over, upcoming 2024 LFPs are even better

[@peterjones6640]

Is the test really meaningful? As most people have said most EV drivers would have set off with 100% charge, plus for many ( and at least for me) I have only once stopped to,charge but I do charge when I stop. So when going on longer journeys recently for example I stopped when I wanted lunch ( had about 46% of battery left) plugged in by the time I had finished lunch and found my wife in a nearby shop charged up to 89% ( I really only wanted 80%) , no more charging for the rest of the few days away and returned home with battery around 36%. On another holiday charged when at lunch ( battery at 70%) charged to just over 90% when finished lunch, next stop was not until booking into hotel for the night ( had about 20% left in battery) charged overnight at hotel whilst asleep , left next morning with 100% battery arrived at final destination with approx 40% in battery , no problem. So from my point of view ( and obviously this may not suit all EV drivers), just charge when you are stopping anyway whether you have 50% or 80% in your battery, even if you are just going for a quick loo break.

[@johngonon1507]

In-deed, people leave with 100% so the test is a bit strange. Regarding your charging habits, if there are people waiting I wouldn't charge above 80%. If there are free chargers, then no problem.

[@peterjones6640]

@@johngonon1507 Indeed regarding charger etiquette, but I have never been at a charger site where there was a queue ( but admittedly I don’t usually travel long distances on a bank holiday or other peak time).

[@jeffgrimston4565]

We just stop every two to three hours or so for a loo break and maybe a coffee top up. In a Tesla you generally add at least 150 miles in 15 minutes and you know before you get to the chargers how many are available. We plan around comfort as the charging is a given and just works faultlessly every time.

[@paulmcgee1867]

Do you find that the satnav takes you to charging points that aren’t for public use?

[@rchatte100]

Just auto reboot the chargers at say 3am? Obv not all at same time.

[@kenbriooo2005]

The key thing I don't think works with such short charging stops are the time taken to slow down and pull into a charger. To then open the app and potentially put in your details then start charging. Having just done 400 miles on one trip recently, I found stick to a decent charger and use it to it's maximum.

[@ShashankKatiyar0]

I am all for drive fast and charge at the highest points of the curve, except there is no guarantee you will find the next charger as soon as you arrive or even work. Recently, I had to wait in queue for two hours to add just 40 miles so that I could reach. Had I known that, I would have charged to 100% earlier and drove more economically. It is risk to reply on next charger.

[@gazzaman28]

On a 320 mile charge I do a few times each year, we only need a half an hour stop in our Kona, and to be honest trying to limit my wife to only half an hour at Tebay services is very difficult anyway!!

[@househunt5815]

What of the additional time it will take to locate, drive to, set up and exit charging - assuming each stop delivers exactly the same charge at each stop. Invalid testing as the act of charging is only part of the essential data.

[@commonsense4you]

For me as a Tesla driver in the US it was quite amusing to watch this. Only 50% of the non Tesla charger actually work here in the US when you really need them. To be fast you'll need battery pre-conditioning, but that doesn't work once you go below 20%. Therefore, if you want a fast charge you would start your trip with 80% and drive it down to 30 or 20%, and then add your 50% charge. In order to optimize that you have to figure out how preconditioning works, and to what temperature you need the battery to condition, and then your display in the car needs to display that precon status. That is rather difficult on a Tesla, and i don't really know how Mercedes does it. I had charging times of 15min to add 50% of charge, but to find the right condition is very difficult. I think you guys should repeat this test, and try again. Otherwise great video!

[@simongeorge2505]

Your initial charge probably demonstrated one key infrastructure issue. The grid simply cannot supply enough power to run multiple charges at high voltage, it will start to throttle. So if you arrive at a 20-bay station and 19 of them are already being used you are going to charge at below the maximum advertised rate (that applies to all the other cars there as well).

[@AnotherBoring43yearold]

Who starts their road trip at a rapid?? No one!!!! Both should’ve started at 100% and pre conditioned And the route was very suspicious giving all super rapids… pop further north or wales please for a more fair test Honestly what a half arsed test

[@michaelmcnally2331]

Well I would as I cannot home charge. Whilst 80% of charging is done at home in the UK then that tells us is that EV’s are being bought predominantly by people that can home charge. Then again actually I would not as won’t have an EV whilst living at a place cannot home charge. If could home charge would have a Tesla Model Y LR so you would be wrong in saying Anti-EV.

[@AnotherBoring43yearold]

@@michaelmcnally2331 yeah people bang on about home charging which is great but some of us actually drive distances 🤣🤣

[@solentbum]

@@AnotherBoring43yearold Home charging and driving distances are not mutualy exclusive things.

[@ronb4633]

They start at 5% each not because that is a typical way to start a road trip but to exaggerate their test as if they are really starting at after the first leg. When you have such a small country and you don’t want to spend days running a test it’s not an unreasonable way to run it. The reason it did not clearly show that shorter charging sessions are better is that the vehicle had a fairly flat and poor charging curve to average only 110 kW to 50% is I would consider pathetic.

[@Mrsquiggley]

Test makes sense. You’re right, you’d start at 100% from home. Which means the first leg to first charge the performance would be identical, the difference would start from the first recharge. Showing the start at 100% changes nothing about results, we’re just skipping the first leg with won’t influence the results.

[@vincentrobinette1507]

Here in the USA, you would likely get a similar result. We too, have issues with charge station reliability, though it is getting better.

[@MastrChee]

The issue with chargers being unreliable applies in both charging strategies, so it's unfortunate that it only affected one of them in the video. I do 20-80 normally and lost count of the number of times I've seen a broken charger (more often gridserve than others). In all things being equal, shorter charges are technically quicker for a journey.

[@FernandoMiguel]

The issue with the first very slow charge is, as you explained later, the batteries were not conditioned, so it was super slow.

[@naggorniy]

Thanks guys, was quite interesting test as for me as id4 driver in Ukraine. We have the same not reliable ev chargong system, so I agree, that better to have 80% approximately and less stops. Also was surprised that eqs losses his charging power from 65%. In comparison my id4 from China, get 98kwt untill 80% 😮

[@rolandhaberl]

Depends even more on the location of the charger (time to go there/detur) often u lose more on that than charging!

[@sagesrunner]

What was the bill for charging? Were the 4 charges more money than the 2 or was it about the same?

[@hansj5846]

Two equal cars driving the same distance and at the same speed would use the same amount of energy.....

[@daheel9]

Was the slow first charge due to the number of cars charging at once at the charging hub (grid limit)? Not much point having multiple 300kw+ chargers if they can only provide ~70kW if all in use.

[@gerbre1]

So the faulty chargers where not shown in the app as not working? Normally a faulty charger is not a problem if you know in advance it doesn‘t work and there are other chargers you can select.

[@stephenbrown3050]

Having watched this & several other videos concerning charging an EV, why is it that when the charging unit fails to work, the customer has to inform the company? I'd have thought such hi-tech equipment would be monitored & faults would be identified in real time & fixed remotely. It appears companies are relying on customers to report their faulty equipment!

[@nettlesoup]

Your suggestion is exactly what Tesla do with their Supercharging network, and they've been doing it for years. The reason nobody else can do it seems to be because they're all relying on a chain of suppliers of hardware, replacement parts, software and online services, instead of designing, manufacturing and implementing the software, hardware, monitoring and repairs themselves as a single company. I remember having a conversation with a GridServe rep at Fully Charged Outside 2021, where I suggested that going with ABB and their antiquated, unreliable (from my own charging experience) hardware and software solution was a bad idea, and he basically pooh-poohed what I was saying and promised everything would be great. And yet here we are, three years later, and the GridServe network has grown but still has far too many issues with slow and inoperative equipment!

[@stephenbrown3050]

Thanks for your informative reply 👍🏻​ @@nettlesoup

[@johnlodge8546]

Simple two short charging sessions started at a low SOC Will be vastly faster and yield more miles of range than a single deep SOC charging session.

[@Pateldaku]

You need to add time of getting to and from a charger back to tge road, plustime it takes to plug and unplug. Theoretical it adds about 5 minutes.

[@JRCarReviews]

If they used Tesla network maybe they wouldn’t have this problems, but then maybe there would be more waiting time to get in line in busy hours. What also doesn’t make sense is going on a trip with empty battery.

[@garybibby2698]

I hate those ABB chargers. Always Being Broken. Better with providers that use Alpitronic like EV power.

[@elgriego74]

it should have been 0-80% versus 0-100% I think that would make more sense! Reason being the trickle charge after 80%. Is it worth to wait until 100%?

[@stevebrookman2515]

Doesn't take into account pulling off the road, navigating the car park, plugging in, fiddling with apps, fiddling with payment, unplugging and driving back out of the carpark. All of which can add up to 15 mins + per charge. AND who wants to stand next to the car whilst charging. So you've got walking time to and from any facilities. My experience. Fewer stops, faster journey.

[@dragoclarke9497]

A point not mentioned is having to slow to pull into the charge points. I reckon doing this an extra 2 times would negate the 8 minutes saved on charging time.

[@desmondatkinson4642]

Cost is a significant problem. Rapid charging is too expensive at present. I have the good fortune to have a home charger on an overnight tariff. When going on a long journey (but only then!) I charge to 100% on the night before. My aim is to minimise the amount of rapid charging. I would plan my charging stop(s) before departure and have a plan B in case of charging failures. And then of course there is bladder range to consider! In my five years of EV ownership I have charged in England, Wales and Ireland. Of those the most reliable chargers were in Ireland (zero failures).

[@leooconnor1820]

Between the chargers mishap and the time it takes to get to and from those extra chargers are up those saved charging time minutes.

[@samuxan]

08:20 that's the problem with short charges, you want to have something to eat when you stop. 15-20 min would be a rush lunch, to have proper food you need longer so you might as well leave the car charging a bit longer

[@JensPilemandOttesen]

That is true. When I roadtrip with my family, we buy fastfood take away to eat in the car. But it always ends up with an 30 min stop, and slow charging speed. Then you have a 3 hour drive to empty the battery before the next stop, that is a blatter challenge!

[@ssgeek4515]

The charge device detects there's no or low voltage in the cars battery's so it batters it...then reduces the charge rate nearing the top.unless you trickle charge your car battery every time which buy the way will extend its life considerably also making you very old waiting,every evening charge process works like this

[@ThaedDavid]

Funny example with the Guinness as that's the one beer i don't pour like that. You can leave the can upside down the whole time and it doesn't overflow. Was taught that in Ireland.

[@jamesdaw131]

Has this factored the time getting off the motorway, setting up your charge and back on to the motorway etc. bet that is at least 2 or 3 mins per charge. Neutralises the benefit of shorter stops. Total time is what counts not just charge time.

[@solentbum]

I think it was total time that was being measured, ie final position of the car on the road.therefore inclusive of stopping time.

[@Jaw0lf]

I believe the 7.5 hour USA charge stops were done to 100% as that takes twice as long as charging to 80%. A 50% vs 80% charge is probably minimal but 80% is less overall stops and more time to grab a coffee!!! Also you should be aware of ionity charging a massive amount and pointing this out and maybe showing an alternate one that costs less per kWh. Maybe together we can avoid these expensive chargers and force a price drop.

[@10reubenl]

How much did you both spend? Curious to see if the cost is also affected?

[@Elwon20]

8 minutes saved per extra charge, when often chargers are 5 minutes off route each way, simply doesn't justify the difference between 50 and 80% charges. Even on a long journey with perfect chargers.

[@simplygregsterev]

I do short chargers “hit and run” once it really starts to taper off peak leave

[@0farmerjohn0]

I did a similar race with me wife. Travel distance of 700km. She was driving the diesel with our son and in laws. I was in the model 3 and i set off 2 hours after her. She arrived 4hrs early. Meaning since I started 2 hours after her. It still took 2 hours more to get there. She told me they only filled up 20km from our destination. I had to do 2 stops to charge. 😂. EVs are great in the city and would never trade my diesel for long distances. 😂

[@MarkHewitt1978]

Isn't the term Opportunity Cost? Or the saying 'A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush'. If you're on a charger and it's working better to spend the time letting it get to 80% than rush to the next one which may or may not be available.

[@stevefriebel2437]

Don’t forget to add in the extra time to get off & back on the highway for the 2 extra stops.

[@PabloTBrave]

Assuming there is a free charge point available and you arent waiting/ queing. Whichever stratety people use Many people start off on a full charge as they have charged at home the night before

[@stevenjonesnmcc]

Being an EV owner I wouldn't have the stomach to charge it to 50%. I would definitely charge it to 80% while I had the charger is there, as your clip highlights!

[@miro_o]

Grieve chargers always have issues. Whenever we drive in the U.K. we avoid them like the plague and try to stick to Ionity and Fastned or when we know it’s an older Gridserve station. The type of station we saw in the video that had issues was tested by our local charging network provider in Luxembourg at one location and that location permanently has half or more of the chargers not working. Anyone know what brand and model it is?

[@sdpryce]

8 years of owning a Tesla, not once has a Tesla Supercharger needed me to do anything other than plug it in. I couldn't be arsed with all that tap your card or use an app and hope for the best.

[@andremanicke8534]

The charging times of the EQE are a nightmare. With my Ioniq5 I often stop between 10 and 15 Minutes and start again.

[@jgrudnicki]

I'm surprised at the small difference in avg charging speeds. Based on the charging curve shown, The 10-50% charge should be around 160kW

[@sprintman62]

I'd be interested to know how much the electricity cost you compared to liquid fuel

[@AdrianMcDaid]

If stopping at Tesla stations would of been cheaper especially if driving Tesla. For me would of been free in my Tesla Model S if stopped at only Tesla Supercharging. Most people will electric cars with charge at home on cheap overnight rate and most of their charging will be done that way. Yes they will pay more when using public charging.

[@djtaylorutube]

easy to work out but very subjective. The BIG benefit with an EV is NOT using public charging and depending on the amout of miles that does not incur public charging can delivery 10000 miles driving for less than £180. To give an example of our recent European road trip to Spain, that was 2,950 miles and cost £247 on Tesla superchargers. That's 8.4p per mile. This is just one of the many reasons why our diesel gets left at home for the short trips. ;)

[@johnwagner9257]

You hit on the issue with stopping at more stations, the higher probability of getting a non working station or hitting a station that is busy and having to wait.

[@frankelf3151]

Don't forget the few minutes needed for extra charging stops. You waste time coming off/on the motorway and the handshake time before you actually get juice into the battery.

[@enyaq_gorm]

I have to say I disagree with their statement that this is typical of the UK charging network. I switched to ev in 2017 and only once did I have to queue (at a tesla supercharger) and only twice have I had a charger that didn't work (one gridserve and one chargeplace Scotland). Both of those were fixed by rebooting.

[@nervousfrog101]

A better strategy is plan your route, and know your chargers. I tend to plan one long stop on my journey if possible because I need a break to rest and eat and then charging time is irrelevant. As I don't have a Tesla I will normally aim to stop at Ionity chargers because they just work every time. If you have to do frequent long journeys on a clock just buy a Tesla.

[@andrew20146]

I think what you've demonstrated is that you shouldn't buy dodgy brands of EVs and use iffy charging networks. Do this with Model 3s and Tesla Superchargers to get useful results.

[@SirHackaL0t.]

Is it really a ‘high’ risk to charge shorter but more often?

[@hamodalbatal464]

Wonderful tests and channel!

[@MaartenVerheyen1985]

Would like to see the same test with an 800v car like the KIA ev9, that has a flat charging curve until 80%

[@PetrDavid]

It'd be nice to start @100% SoC and compare Mercedes' EQ Intelligence with "plan the charges yourself" or ABRP

[@mra9085]

Neil’s strategy would undoubtedly be a lot quicker and hassle-free in a Tesla, which are more efficient as well and don’t have to rely on other companies’ chargers.