Overdrives Aren't Necessary For High Gain Amps

[@andybungert]

EQ pedals are still so undervalued. That being said I've watched a bunch of vids that talk about their relevance. Now I just need to put it into practice. And practice in general :)

[@jamesjohanson5675]

agreed.. and they can work as a booster too... a mate of mine simulates the famed hm2 saw sound with an old digitech eq...

[@phantomflame0658]

In the effects loop especially they're sick. It's like the 5 band on a mesa mark!

[@VexLosers]

I used to run a Boss EQ through an FX loop for leads and it worked beautifully

[@DROID1018]

Just my opinion, but if you need an EQ to make your amp sound good, then it’s possible there is an amp out there that will satisfies that tone requirement you’re looking for. When you add an EQ pedal, you totally disregard the characteristics of that amp (imo).

[@barryprosser1370]

Spot on dude. People are way too opinionated about something that doesn't affect them at all. Like you said tone is what the player is going for not some random dude on youtube. Great work dude. \m/

[@Drew_Vernon]

One thing that often gets overlooked, and you touched on it when you talked about thrash riffs and tightness..... not every section of every song needs to sound the same. Some parts I use an OD, other parts I don't. If I'm doing a slow chug section, I can afford to let the amp do it's thing in a boomy way... but if I'm doing something faster.... then it makes sense to boost. It's all about context, and that can easily change from riff to riff even within the same song.

[@charlesrocks]

The more raw an amp is the better it is for me. That's why I love the Mesa Mark Series amps. You can really get a whole ton of tones out of those things

[@pip5528]

I prefer Mark over Rectifier and think the latter is a bit overrated and not as versatile as Mark. That said, I do quite enjoy Rectifiers as well.

[@robertpierce6027]

I'm one of those guys that will hit the front end of the amp with a OD pedal or distortion pedal and EQ. I have early JMP heads and a Superlead that I do not want to mod or chop up..I may even look into the V2 EVO. I have learned a lot off of your clips and what ODs can do for tone on the Marshall 2204/2203 and the modern amps. It has helped me. I wish I could afford a modern head at this point but am retired from the military on a fixed budget. What you have demonstrated has helped me to get the best of my Marshalll JMPs and my DSL100. P.S. I got a hold of Mr. Wagner and he is a really nice guy and is willing to look at my DSL issue. Thank you

[@Horcruxxx-xn1ej]

I back this 💯 you don’t need an overdrive (especially if you’re running a Mesa dual rec or any type of 5150/6505). The boost itself is just that little extra punch that can smooth out the high end. I use a TS9 on my 6505+ but I have the gain dialed back on 3 so it’s super smooth and the chords are wet. In the end it’s all personal preference. Great video Kyle! 🤘🏼

[@TYLERtheMAGGOT1]

Agreed. I use the TS9 on the blue channel of My EVH 50 watt stealth and it's perfect. Like you said, it gives it a extra punch without changing much of the tone

[@FuzzImp]

High gain amps need people who practice better riffs who don’t comment online so much. Killer vid dude!

[@GEX-_-]

My All time favorite setup. Guitar > preamp, mesa triaxis > 4 cable method with your amp. You can insert gate and eq in the loop as necessary. No pedals where harmed in this setup. Use the preamp like a pedal. Bypass the rack preamp, use pedals. Best of both worlds. Some amps dont need help, others shine.

[@terexasa]

Well stated. I once owned all the gear Dimebag used in the Vulgar Display of Power album for that tone, and well I wasn’t happy with that tone cause it wasn’t for my fingers. Your hands also affect your tone and I had to search for what I liked. So to all, try out gear and find what YOU like. My setup is: PRS MT15, ESP Ltd EC1000ET with SD Nazgûl pickup, ISP Decimator/DigiTech Drop Tune Pitch Shift/Maxon 808-OD in the front and BBE Sonic Stomp and Noise Gate in the loop; this is pushed though two 1x12 16 ohm Thiele cabs with Eminence DV77 speakers. I LOVE this setup and it’s MY sound, that’s what you all need to find; your sound.

[@fjk1138]

I agree completely. To me, it's all about options and experimentation. There is no right or wrong if you want to use an OD pedal in front of a high gain amp, it all depends on what kind of sound you want, what kind of feel you want, etc. I'm glad everyone likes discussing these types of things, but in all honesty for the time and energy spent we could all probably cure cancer.

[@VexLosers]

Excellent overview and general philosophy about tone. I recently ordered a JCM 2000, based partially on your glowing praise, and I absolutely love the sound of the OD1 pushed by an OCD, much more so than the amp’s hi-gain overdrive channel. I’ve got a Walrus Emissary as an occasional lead boost, and it’s all really working for me when playing live. Cheers and keep the excellent content coming!

[@CS-ru4xd]

I agree with you 100%!! I never...EVER wanted to use a drive in front of any of my amps until recently. I've had hundreds of different amps throughout my years of playing and NEVER used a drive because I was of the mindset (like many still are) that my amp that I payed good money for shouldn't need a drive in front of it to help it sound better. Thanks to you guys doing gear reviews and comparisons, I learned the value of the front end push and sculpting benefits of the drive pedal. Now I can't use ANY of my amps without some sort of drive in front... if not for any other reason than for tone sculpting. I like the way you explain things using some history and examples behind your rants because it brings those who don't understand or refuse to understand why they were designed and are used in the way they are used up to speed. I , myself, am thankful for the influx of new drive pedals whether they be classic or designed for the modern day style of music. So many choices and options that it's easy to get lost in the tonal vortex...which isn't really a bad thing if you have deep pockets. But it's still fun! Very informative and well thought out, Kyle!! Good stuff!! Happy New Year to ya!!

[@belligerentamateur]

Awesome man, glad to hear you enjoy the perspective. Best of luck on the tone hunt! Happy New Year!

[@CS-ru4xd]

@@belligerentamateur You know it as well as I do..the hunt NEVER ends!! lol

[@MoreMeRecording]

OD in front isn't really for "gain" . They cut lows, and therefore enable the guitar to pop in the mix a bit more.

[@wesliggett2454]

Agree, add a bit of sustain and goodness too. I alway keep the gain dumped on my ODs.

[@slayabouts]

The way I see it, it’s nice to have two (or more) different units adding their own flavor of saturation which helps thicken it up. You could have a lot of one type or a little of multiple types, sort of like running two different amps.

[@pjstraightedge]

I play in a Pop-Punk band and I ALWAYS run my Maxon OD808 in front of my Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier. Tightens everything up and just gives a tiny extra bit of bite and sustain. I have the gain all the way down on my Maxon with the volume on it all the way up. It's got nothing to do with gain and everything to do with sound. Awesome video Kyle! 🤘🏻🤘🏻

[@rb2708]

Wise words at the end. Love to gear and sound should unite and not divide us. Well done!

[@belligerentamateur]

Yes!

[@DeathMetalDevin]

Nice explanation on the uses for overdrives. Tighten, cleanup, and flavor

[@BPToneReview]

Well said. It's your tone, do what you want and how you want. I'm one that will play the amp unboosted first and not just boosts anything and everything I plug into.....those are the people I roll my eyes at. Also, I feel a great player can get a great tone without the need for a boost by just changing his/her pick attack BUT it depends on the amp too. Some amps like rectos and 2203s have a fat, loose, slow bottom end that can't be dialed out and needs a boost for metal. For rock tones, no boost is needed. 5150's...I don't see how anyone feels they "need" to boost those amps, Ed didn't boost them................ but to each their own. Again, it's your tone, do what you want.

[@lesterksi4521]

Agreed with you on this, depending what you want to play on that day. Like sometime I want to play a low output pickup guitar with a high gain amp, and that sounds good

[@brianlong7696]

I 've used an OD and EQ together and it works awesome.

[@jongangloff8076]

I just bought 3 tube screamers. A mini, a ts808 and a TS808DX. I couldn't believe what I have been missing out on all these years. Cleans up the signal extremely well. I havent tried an SD-1 but I hear they are almost identical, one having asymmetric clipping over the former.

[@Sticky_Tea]

Sonic Drive Studio has a great series about this: 'to boost or not tot boost' Can really recommend that channel 👍🏻

[@teddoucet7323]

I totally agree... Whatever makes you happy.

[@johnhawk3142]

Awesome video. As someone just startimg to get into high gain applications, this helped a lot. I was someone that thought you shouldnt need od on a high gain amp, but more due to ignorance. Its time for me to try some new things. Thanks!

[@louderthangod]

When tuning down, it’s very hard to get a very tight low-end without a boost or eq to trim some of those deeper low’s. When amps have an input sculpt then the anti-boost people will have a point but only Mesa Mark’s kinda don’t that. Mixing engineers will often use 2-3 compressors on a vocal to get, say, 6db of compression. It’s not because you can’t get 6db’s with a single compressor but you might want a fast and a slow compressor a tube and a solid state or fet unit to get not just the amount of compression but the quality, timbre and tone of compression just like we do with boosts for amps.

[@davidlawson7786]

Hey Kyle, Cool topic today, I actually agree with you 100% in fact back in the late 90s early 2000s I played through a couple of Mesa triple rectifiers and I never felt the need to run an overdrive the whole entire time I played in a couple heavy bands that I was in, however I did color my tone with a DOD ice box chorus, I got some badass tones through the vintage orange channel. Anothe note is I used Seymour Duncan 59 in my bridge position, I had a guitar guy that switched out a certain capacitor in my guitars electronics and finally found an amazing tone that way. Nowadays I love experimenting with overdrives, my current favs are the Mesa flux five with the EQ and I like the less expensive Plumes fromEarth Quaker devices, heck the $50 Boss Super overdrive is not bad. Anyway, cool channel, keep up the fun content.

[@geraldrauch1701]

kyle!!! great topic...i'll admit I've been anti-overdrive for a long time (been playing bout 35 yrs)...but i finally picked up a boss SD-1 this year and like it a lot, it adds a lil "sizzle" when my ear needs it...also have a MXR 10-band in the loop of the mark IV, that thing rules!!! cheers brother!!!

[@marciocunha2639]

I started boosting the front end of my amps when I stopped using active pick ups. First a Metal Zone into a Dual Rec for that Cannibal Corpse sound. Now I dial my amp a bit above AC/DC crunch and boost it with a RAT with the gain at 9 oclock and volume maxed. What made me use an overdrive in front of an amp was precisely a question of need.

[@tbird1138]

I used to not use over drives and since I've switched out all my pickups from EMG's to Seymour Duncan passives, I can't see myself without an over drive in front. My amp sounds flubby without it and you can't hear the guitar. At least to me it does ......and yes.. for the most part, people need to mind their own damn business. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I love your positive takes on things.

[@martinitime1975]

My Orange Crush 120 does. The orange amps have tons of low end, hard to get the pick attack for crunchy thrash riffs. It has the roar but not the bite. So I use a tube screamer with volume at 50% and little or no drive and I get that sharp pick attack I want

[@finishin.my.coffee8780]

I love real amp distortion but once you venture into the realm of overdrives and just pedals in general, it can become addicting. And I tend to be of the same mindset...lower the amp gain, then add the pedals. I've tried it several ways but that seems to work best for me.

[@MP422ownz]

It still is "real amp" distortion when you put a overdrive out front.

[@thet740]

I use a ST9+ with my Dual Rec. Gain on the amp dimed at all times. Drive on the pedal to 12, level around 12. Without the pedal it just sounds dry and sluggish with a muddy low end (I also play down tuned 7 strings). There is a video with Rob Barrett from Cannibal Corpse showcasing this exact scenario and how much better it sounds (to my ears) engaged.

[@tylerobrien2666]

This is also my take. Good tone is subjective, and if someone finds an unconventional or traditional method toward making it sound great to their ears, then awesome. The problem with wanting a super processed sound from an amp at the very beginning is it actually leaves you with less options toward finding something that might actually be better. Give me an unboosted amp, and a variety of overdrives to test which one compliments it and helps maximize its potential. Why WOULDN'T anyone want go approach it that way?

[@bjornoldskoolfitness]

Before I knew that running an OD into an amp was even a thing, I LOVED the sound of my Engl Powerball. In fact it was the envy of the local scene. So chances are it didn't need a boost or people liked it without. I now own a Laney Ironheart 60 and a Peavey XXX. Neither of them NEED a boost per se but they DO need a boost for the sound I like. Well, the Laney definitely does at least. I like amps \ tones with and without. However, when I am cratfing what I want, I would nearly always opt for a boost. I like really juicy, punchy sounds for those Mid 200's metalcore single note riffs that need to leap out of the speaker into your ears.

[@cmd_f5]

Pretty much. It depends on the player and style and setup in generl, the style etc. I use boosts for some ampsims/real rigs, straight in for others. No wrong answer. At the end of the day it's about the art and having fun. Glad you brought up different OD = different flavor. That's been proven many times to me over the years. It's all about experimenting.

[@Joey_Tatts_Palmer]

I couldn’t have said it better brother. I love my OD’s/clean boost pedals. The KSR EROS is epic.

[@Johnny-oy9fh]

I'd say yes they do ...so you can go from pretty clean...to overdriven....to then hitting the overdrive for extra gain and sustain...as this then adds thickness...not just more gain.

[@brandonvon3774]

I completely agree that you'll get different flavors from different overdrives. I just like to noodle around to relax, so I use an Ampli-Firebox amp modeler, and I've tried different ODs with different amp models. I also like to use my HM-2 as a boost, especially on the Rectifier model, I'll dial down the bass on the HM-2, dial up the high to where it barely has that cocked-wah sound. Really tightens up the Rectifier model. But this HM-2 setting sounds terrible with the Mark-V model, so I crank up the bass on it and dial back the high knob just enough so it cuts. But if I just want to strum chords on the Rectifier model, I don't use an OD, and I'll turn up the bass. I think it's fun to just mess around and turn knobs every time, instead of using "standard" settings all the time, like diming an HM-2. I don't really subscribe to the idea that there's a perfect "set it and forget it" way to sound. Everyone's different, and I'm sure my way of boosting a Rectifier with an HM-2 isn't for everyone. (I think Tubescreamers are over-rated, and I don't use my TS-7 all that often.)

[@hierrogm]

In the very beginning both Kerry and Jeff used BOSS GE 10 and modded jcms …i teched for Kerry for reign in blood and was at just about every practice 86-88 Jeff let me borrow that JCM over summer they went to Europe first time they are all the best humans ever …we were told to handle those BOSS Ge10s like fine china …they were integral in the slayer sound back in the 80s ..that was the pedal board ..that’s it

[@prodsunss]

wow that’s so cool. any idea of what mods were done to their JCMs. and is there a difference between a GE 10 and a modern pedal board GEQ like an MXR?

[@BA99253]

A boost in front of a dual rec is a must. I was shocked the first time I heard one unboosted it was so loose and flubby.

[@prasanthselvadurai3450]

Check out a rev c demo on KZbin here. Super tight.

[@joshrexben]

As always, great content, Kyle, with a lot of good points. For me, the gain has nothing to do with a boost in front and everything to do with increasing harmonic content, increasing the response and feel, and shaping the sound a bit more. There is a more immediate attack, harmonic content, and reaction from the amp when playing leads through an overdrive vs without, which in turn makes me play a little better when I hear it. You do not get the same effect by turning the gain knob up by 1. Does it need it? Probably not. Can I get by without it? Probably. Do I want to get by without it? No. As long as you’re digging the sound / feel is it anyone else’s business or should they be criticizing you for using one in front of your high gain amp for your recordings like people typically do online? Definitely not.

[@belligerentamateur]

Agreed on all points my friend! Thanks for the detailed response to the conversation!

[@bofuscrapshaw]

Never slag your playing. What you do is not easy! Sounds super tight and your rhythm is dead on! Very valuable!! Rock on

[@dannbrauckmann1545]

So, how do you like to set your boosts and overdrives when running them into your high gain amps? Do you keep the gain low on the pedal, and jack-up the level, then adjust tone to taste? Do you mix half gain with amp-pre and half gain from pedal? It would be great if you did a video showing a few ways you like to set your boosts/overdrives when playing certain stuff.

[@belligerentamateur]

Depends on the amp and boost, but generally level up, gain down, tone to taste

[@metalgear74]

Kerry was even using two boosts before even hitting the cable. The emg's internal preamp and an additional boost on the guitar's mini-toggle. To boost or not to boost,,,,,,there really is no question, but the answer is; Do it when you want to and don't when you don't!

[@nowhereweareagain]

Similar to what you said, need and want are different things. You don’t need an overdrive in front of most any amp, but you can use one if it helps the specific sound you want. I don’t quite get the love for using ODs with the gain all the way down as opposed to dedicated boosts and EQ pedals, but I don’t have to. Guitarists as a community often get too concerned with doing something “right” when it should really be to each his own.

[@jamespelfrey6414]

At the end of the day, what sounds good to you should be the only thing that matters. Beyond that is just noise. Side note: watching Kyle hold up a ghoul screamer and a mxr 10 band made me smile. The man has good taste . Cheers!

[@Bognerman14]

Well said Kyle. Your comments on tone and what makes one happy is what it is. Use what makes you happy! Let's not judge others so much just because you or I have a different favorite flavor. Same holds true with what guitar you use, pickups, and your style of play. One guy may be a slow blues guy with amazing feel and another guy may go a million mils an hour playing neoclassical. So be it. Be you and may music that makes you happy. Let's not judge so much - let people enjoy.

[@marcgallant5270]

Best pedal is an EQ pedal but OD/DIST pedals are great versatility/ tone shaping tools. More pedals = more versatility/tone combinations.

[@Poly6Groove]

I think that for low gain amps, yes, you need that treble booster to get more gain and chug, but high gain amps have already those characteristics in them, so adding a treble booster will just get “that” boosted “sizzling” sound which may be desirable or not.

[@philipandersen4406]

It's all about the fun of making different sounds, I enjoy switching thing around and trying different equipment just make a sound that I like. Don't care what other people think about my tone. You have yours and I have mine and that's just fine

[@jesperbc]

I'm with you 100%, Kyle. If guitar players could just let other guitar players get their tone however they wanted, we'd be better off. My take on this has always been "let people enjoy what they enjoy". So you want your pure amp tone. Fine. So you want to boost the shit out of your amp. Fine. Want a clean pedal platform amp and use overdrives, distortions, fuzzes, stacking 'em, etc? Fine. Want a roaring tube amp? Fine. Just let people enjoy what they have. Your tone is YOUR tone, and it mainly has to please you and has to fit the music you're making. Your ears are the first filter. Then your band mates might have a say. And a producer/mix engineer, if you're recording. The final filter is the listener/audience, and 99 times out of 100 they can't tell the difference if your boosting or not, or if your rig is fully digital or you have an amp cooking back stage... But guitar players are the worst, those judgy bastards.

[@belligerentamateur]

100% This

[@deathmetal0914]

I've been trying to go a different route..running a rat into my 6505+. That works well for me. But I run my pre on about 4. I also run a hm-2 into the amp. Never both pedals at once. But both on my board gives me two very different sounds.

[@Wh33lsofFortune]

I got a demon tube screamer for like 40$ shipped off eBay. It's literally like the original tube screamers with the JRC4558D chips in it. I would suggest these for anyone that's scared of spending a ton on a tube screamer. I use one with my ultra plus 120 and it's fucking fantastic. Good video

[@Admiral_Bongo]

I'd put it this way: depends on the needs and on the amp. No way would I use a Recto or a Mark Series for death metal or grindcore without some mid-heavy boost in front, especially if I tune down as low as B standard. 5150III (not the original 5150, it's too loose as well), on the other hand, while not my favorite way to go, would be completely acceptable. Some solid state Randalls like the RH series and some ENGLs do fine without a boost. But really, in music there are no hard rules.

[@nothingislogical]

My take: I think overdrives (or at least TS808 circuit overdrives) in front of a high gain amp are overdone at this point. It's not something I personally want to pursue. I'm happy with not using one. That being said, the general sentiment of this video being "to each their own" rings true. If you want to use an overdrive, be my guest. It's not my rig. It's not me dialing in your tone. If that's the tone you like, go for it. Who gives a shit what I think at that point?

[@maynardburger]

I would usually poo-poo this notion of 'oh I dont like something just cuz it's popular', but in the guitar world, it's hard to deny that this mentality of wanting to be contrarian and sort of forge a more unique identity is responsible for many of the innovations and trendsetters in both tone and style that we've gotten over the decades.

[@nothingislogical]

@@maynardburger For me, it's not even a notion of "it's popular so I don't like it". I've been just as guilty of doing it. I'm just bored of it at this point. But like I said, I don't disparage for anyone who does it or likes that tone.

[@jacksmith4460]

I use OD's , but I totally get where you are coming from. Nothing wrong with going against the grain, its what every single innovator did

[@Straightedge63]

this always comes down to preference. for me, an overdrive is ALWAYS a staple on my board. its the sound that im going for and if someone doesnt like it, then dont listen to my playing. i use 5150iii, 6534+ and PRS archon and they all need the OD in front for my style.

[@the_anderman]

I went through a phase of trying every boost pedal I could get my hands on, but taking the time to learn to dial my amp in properly has done more to improve my tone than anything.

[@belligerentamateur]

Totally understood, but once you understand how to manipulate the amps controls to get it to do what you want, overdrives become even more useful because you know how to dial the amp for the whole signal chain, boost or no boost,

[@derekperry2142]

I totally agreed it’s pure fun chasing tones

[@shredward666]

I recently acquired a VHT 100CL with a KT88 mod and it's got such a huge sound but not as much gain saturation as my Engl Powerball, even with the gain dimed. I've found that by pushing the front with an OD (Airis fx brutal drive with gain at 2) I can achieve the sustain and harmonics that the amp isn't able to produce on it's own. Plus the amp has a built-in 6-way EQ that shapes any tone I can imagine🤘

[@mattcamacho5570]

I use a boss sd1 with a peavey 6505+, but the gain knob on the sd1 is on zeeeero and the gain on channel 2 on 6.5 to 7ish. It works, gives it a nice feel with alot of focus. The tone knob makes a bit of a difference too. But in all truth I think its whatever you want really.

[@hock4540]

Some of us want one tone, that grail tone, and that is all we want. Others of us want a multitude of tone capabilities, and for those it's much more cost effective (and space saving) to get pedals than amps to shape sounds. In the end, as mentioned, there are no hard fast rules. Music is the epitome of creativity, so have at it whatever way you want to get the sounds and feels you want out of your tone. Great channel Kyle!

[@belligerentamateur]

Thank you, my man!

[@tbirdpunk]

Variety is a great thing! Speakers, pickups, pedals up front or in the loop, oh my! I've gone back to a basic JCM800 style rig using hot pickups and greenbacks. But, it's fun smacking an OD in front of my 6505... or even my AC30 which loves a boost. EQ's in the loop can get some amazing tones from amps. Experiment with your gear is my take-away from this video. I have more fun tinkering than anything else these days. Little things like adjusting the pole pieces on a humbucker can bring out happy accidents in tone.

[@davedobson9801]

I've tried for years to get by without an overdrive, but always keep using one. I just like how it sounds and feels. I have an M-Zero Overdrive and still use the overdrive in front of it. I also use a 10 band EQ pedal, which is really great. Interesting experiment - my son got a Marshall DSL and naturally, I had him try it with and without an overdrive. He could hear the difference (this was his first electric guitar and amp) and still uses the SD-1 that I had to give him after letting him try it. :)

[@TYLERtheMAGGOT1]

I use my Ts-9 on my 50 watt stealth on the blue channel and it's perfect. But it's not needed on the red channel (which has more gain and volume). I think that's where people think its too much and i agree but on the blue channel it's perfectly fine. It's perfect for me on the blue channel since it gives it a extra punch without changing the tone

[@madmikemike]

I agree with ya. Whatever it takes to get to what you want, the sound in your head. They’re all just tools. I personally dig overdrives and such and use them if I need them, but I don’t have to. Wouldn’t it be boring if we all just had the one same sound? Eekk

[@massttrshrdrharmonicminor2002]

I find having boost or a delay in my setup makes me play for a longer period of time. I love putting a tubescreamer and eq in front of my Orange Micro Dark, totally transforms it.

[@danieltravis5082]

I don't *need* an overdrive with my main high gain amp, but I still own a bunch of them. Because they're fun, and how else am I going to get drive tones out of my Matchless and fender bandmaster? People should do what they like. BUT..... I think the main reason for the criticism about overdrives in front of a high gain amp isn't because of how people use the ods,/amps themselves, but because lots of people are bored to death of the same "808 - 5150/recto - v30" modern metal tone. The criticism is a side effect of that, I think.

[@1thess523]

So I started my musical instrument journey on drums back in 94', then moved to bass about a year later up until Oct 96' when I quit playing in my skate and pop punk band. After that I picked up the guitar here and there, back in the mid 90's Triple Rec's and JCM's were pretty much the staple for the melodic hardcore, pop punk, skatepunk, and emo band's and from what I can recall everything was straight into the amp with no pedals involved (rack tuners were the rage). As I started getting a little more guitar amp nerdy and started watching KZbin demos I would see people running and Overdrive pedal into a Marshall or Mesa and my brain couldn't comprehend why they were doing that, I was like "why would you spend all this money on an amp just to add a pedal (at this point I didn't know the difference between Overdrive and Distortion pedal 🤷‍♂️). It wasn't until my son started playing guitar in the worship band at church that I started to understand what pedals can do, my son is one of those types of people who will learn about whatever he's into and share ot with me. So we've both grown in the amp/pedal area and having added a Friedman Buxom Boost, Boss SD-1, and a Berhinger 0800 Overdrive (not all at once) to my JCM 2000 and 900 I can tell you first hand I can no longer play those amps without some kind of boost or Overdrive because for me it doesn't sound as good. With my JCM 2000 I hit the deep switch and with either pedal it tightens the flubby lowend up and with my JCM 900 it just makes it shine a little more. As a Christian myself I don't "force" my faith on anyone I share it but if they don't want to hear about it then I move on, I think the hardcore (see what I did there 😜) believers of the pedal/unpedaled should try that as well 😉.

[@AngryTonesRiffClips]

Excellent video Kyle I couldn’t agree with you more! Really appreciate you putting it out there as well as sharing the history so many naysayers seem to forget about these day. Keep it Hardcore! 🤘

[@jacksmith4460]

Bonus points for the AMT shirt ( I have a P1 pre and its really cool, sounds pretty close to my Block letter)

[@belligerentamateur]

They were great to me at NAMM this year and gave me a pedal to review!

[@SimpleAndyRock]

My portable revv g20 non boosted sounds meh, but boosted it's one of my favorite high gain tones. That combinations sounds better to me than my engl fireball and friedman (even with a boost). Big fan of boosting when tone is the most important thing. On the flipside I do dislike the hassle of having one more thing to worry about.

[@the_anderman]

What’s your favourite boost for the G20? I have quite a few drive pedals, but I keep coming back to the Maxon Apex 808.

[@harshtruth9148]

I own an EVH lbxiii and it needs a boost OD i think.....the low end with my EVH 1x12 seems flubby but when i engage my Dirty Tree or my Plumes pedal it tightens it right up....i leave the amp gain on blue channel at 3-4 and use the rest with the pedal and i get some nice tones....its subjective id say. But its necessary i think for Low end tightness. I guess i could achieve this with an EQ pedal?? Never tried.

[@terrycarr2943]

You're dead on with the slight tonal changes different overdrives add. I'm not a high gain guy, but that's a key!

[@ricdale7813]

Most of our favorite artists recorded tones are generally achieved using OD/Dirt in front of the amp/s. So there is no right or wrong. I'm generally a guitar>amp guy but there is no doubt a dirt out front tightens up the signal. A happy medium for me is a eq in the loop.

[@Wiseshredhead]

I need one on my solidstate orange crush 20rt

[@lowqualityguitarvideos]

I use a J Rocket Rockaway Archer which is a klone with a 6 band eq, and I couldnt live without it. Really. Its just better in every way. Always. Even for clean tones.

[@markpenney46]

Great video ! I love the fact that my rectifier is a fat flubby mess most of the time, from a 33 to a basic 808. I just love how they interact with all my amps. Would I want an amp that’s so tight you don’t need an od? fuck no cause where do you go from there? you can’t buy a flub pedal to make the amp saggy again. there a lot of people who think that a 3k amp shouldn’t need an od. And I understand that to a point. but I believe amps are built this way to allow us to get what we feel we need. And no it’s not about adding gain lol. peace out and metal on 🤘🏼

[@jackarmistead5353]

Personally I think if the amp needs tweaking beyond what the front panel can give me, I use an eq in the loop. But I also understand the use of an od. Though for me, I use my peavey xxx and it certainly does not require a boost, for gain or for tightness.

[@tylerscott2116]

I back this 100 percent. A amp like the invective that has 3 channels, a overdrive on the clean channel, a boost on 2 high gain channels, as well as a noise gate on the high gain channels completely negates the need for pedals in terms of tone/gain gascading. And if you're a pro player, I really don't understand why somebody would wanna get a amp to pop pedals in front of when you can have everything necessary in a concise and cohesive amp. It is what it is, to each their own. The more older I get, the less I care about pedals and effects. Gimmie a real dope amp and a guitar and it's a done deal. Meat and potatoes is so pure and irreplaceable.

[@milkandmeat]

I mean, amps like the invective with boosts are essentially overdrive pedals built in

[@tylerscott2116]

@@milkandmeat that's fair

[@rydiz86]

Always use one with the gain all the way down. Yeah I could use an eq or have even seen guys do it with a compressor, just I’m more set with the tone I get with certain od’s. Totally not to get more gain, tighten up the bottom end. Makes my tone live especially cut through the mix so much better

[@nferna666]

Preach Bro, Peach! You nailed it on the head. 110% 🤘🤘

[@johnevered9640]

I personally don't use an OD as I have a Mesa Mark V which kinda just sounds boosted anyway! Plus its hard work enough to switch from a chorused clean sound to a high gain sound without worrying about hitting an overdrive too! However, other amps I've played like a JCM 900 worked super well with a boost and I couldn't imagine playing one without a boost on my board!!

[@alexanderlumberjack]

I would love a video of you showing off and explaining why you use the mxr custom modified od

[@belligerentamateur]

Tune in tomorrow 😎

[@alexanderlumberjack]

@@belligerentamateur you never let me down!

[@dougcarr7086]

Kyle, one of my favorite videos! Great topic. Love the insight and explanations. I’d love to see more like this! 🔥🤘🏻😬

[@nickemacio9794]

I know this video is older now, but I am just now seeing it. I REALLY enjoy your take on this. I have a 5150 iconic, and I've been wondering if it's worth it to add an overdrive to get "my flavor". I think you're correct-I tend to dwell in the "butt rock" realm, but have been interested in the super tight djent sound. I'm gonna try out a few OD's. Any suggestions would actually be welcome for somewhere between "djent" and "butt"😂

[@martinhensley2377]

I like using a OD and a EQ.

[@TheRosswise]

I have tried boosting but I don't because the tones I like do not require them with the gear I have.

[@TheNocturnalEvil]

Back in 80s and 90s bands like Ratt, and Pantera used the rack-mount Furman PQ3 parametric equalizer before their amps to shape and boost them. I ain't sure why that trend went away. If anything it's way more convenient to use a parametric EQ these days because small parametric EQ pedals like the ones made by WMD, and Master Effects can do everything that the big Furman PQ3 can do.

[@musicinsession]

This was a really nicely articulated video! Thank you for sharing your opinion in such a passionate way! I agree with you! It's all down to the player, end of discussion! :)

[@belligerentamateur]

Agreed!

[@wesliggett2454]

My Uberschalls are all boosted with an 805. With the OD, I can keep the amp gain low and keep things tight and articulate. These amps don’t need more gain, just a push.

[@cutoffguitar]

I agree with your point of view, I believs it is pretty accurare and for your style, your approach works well. It think (as with everything in life) it’s all about the point of view. For thrash, boost definitely. You almost kinda need the sound to be a bit thinner, I think Slayer riffs would sound wierd in a non-boosted dual recto. On the other hand, people playing sludge or doom, where the guitar needs huge low end, there’s no reason to give the amp a different saturation.

[@Davidthestratman7]

Another thing to say for tone chasers. If your just going for what's new then your not necessarily chasing tone, your going for the trend

[@sk8125]

I enjoy trying different od’s just as much as trying different amps.

[@thehoppo]

Could you do an eq in front vs eq in loop vid ?

[@belligerentamateur]

Absolutely

[@dametalone]

I just got the new Boss eq200 for this very purpose. It allows me to use the same eq pedal in both in front, and in the loop positions simultaneously.

[@decaenofficial]

You have pretty good Content, and always on point. Thanks!

[@rayzeus]

To me, it just comes down to how some people think that what works for them is the ultimate solution, but they overlook what might work for others. I personally need an overdrive to get the kind of tone I want, regardless of the amp I'm using, but that's not to say that someone absolutely needs an overdrive to play metal. As you say, people should just experiment and find what works for them, and not worry about what others are doing.

[@jacksmith4460]

Its like this, yes they do, and no they dont. The notion that a Boosted amp reacts the same way as a none boosted amp(as many OD detractors seem to think) is just incorrect. So it is simply a matter of taste. Do you like the way a clean boost makes your amp react? do you like it more than without the clean boost? if Yes, then it needs a boost, if not then no it does not. Commonly I would say an OD focuses the sound, alters the compression dynamic and with Single coil guitars (you can do this with Humbuckers too but its actually easier with single coils) you can get a very responsive yet very high gain tone I am talking about setting an OD so that it slightly increases distortion or Drive and the same with the amp. You find a pre amp level on your amp that is just between gain stages, so when you pick harder both the Amp and the OD break up more, so you can get a very responsive Hi gain sound that other wise , would (almost) be impossible. (it works better with Single coils because they are less compressed and more dynamic, but you can get a similar thing with humbuckers, Rabea sets his Guitar tones up, somewhat like this) The "2 grand on an amp, should not need a pedal" statement, to me just shows a total lack of understanding about compression, Dynamics, gain staging and the actual purpose of using an OD. They seem to think its an EQ thing only or a means of adding Solid state distortion to a Tube based signal , and it can be those things, but usually is actually , not or only partially that. FTR I use an OD (commonly a Walrus Audio Mayflower or a TRex Alberta 2) but 5 or 6 years ago , I did not. I could not understand why, I thought the same way as "well its the wrong amp then" and then I actually started to try it, and it clicked. It was just not the same sound as un boosted. I have never played an amp that can get that tone without an OD, now, I have seen demo's of amps that seem too (Revv and Omega amps spring to mind) but they actually have switchable boost circuits in them which are actually less versatile limited versions of OD circuits. Just about any amp that achieves the boosted tone (because it IS a different sound) sans pedal, has one of these Pseudo drive circuits in it. So do we need OD's? yes if we like them, and no if we dont like them, its a subjective Keep up the great videos Kyle You are a welcome antidote to certain un named YT's who are also in HMAP group and just look for attention Much respect from the UK

[@belligerentamateur]

Thanks for the detailed reply, man. Glad to have you here

[@intothemud2499]

totally right! 👍

[@M3tal_matt]

The internet is the issue...to many people sharing unwanted opinions on people's personal tone..its all subjective at the end of the day..if you have to use 10 different boosts to get your sound then do it..nobody can tell you if its right or wrong 🤘

[@jacak47410]

Here's my thought. I personally prefer looser sounding amps. Dual rectifier and now my orange rockerverb. I love hearing the amp breath without an overdrive. And that's usually how I play it. But when I want a tight chug I throw my ts9 or my dirty tree on And it's monstrous. I also run really hot pickups, I prefer how a hot pickup interacts with an Amp then a medium output pickup reacts with an overdrive to an amplifier. There's no bad sounds just what you prefer. I can always tighten an Amp up , I can't loosen it.