Overexplaining The Expansion Phase of Civ 3: Archipelago Edition

[@ygaudreault]

Civ3 is the last civ game where preparing a cross-continent invasion felt epic.

[@JK-qi7pp]

That's so true! I started playing with CivIII and I loved it and every game since but they never were able to recreate the same feeling of struggle and uneasiness that was a part of every naval invasion in CivIII.

[@skipperxiv9401]

35:26 Also, forests on tundra just look a lot prettier than mined tundra

[@bigchungus2030]

FR

[@paako]

So true.

[@munsters2]

34:09 "You actually never want to clear the tundra" Until you get railroads. At that point a railroaded mined tundra produces the same as a forest tundra.But the railroaded mine gives you 3 benefits: 1. The chopped forest gives you shields. 2. If the tile is pillaged or bombarded: a: It is quicker to re-road and re-railroad a mine than a forest. b. Military units such as knights and cavalrys can move across a plain tundra or mined tundra quicker than a forest tundra with no road.

[@nono4805]

Hi Suede, the factors to pop barbs 1- player must not have expansion trait, 2- no city within a 1 tile radius, 3- player must have at least 1 city, 4-player must have at least 1 military unit, 5- the unit popping the hut must not have the "all terrain as roads" ability. The only unit I know of off the top off my head that has all roads is the Conquistador. So are an exception to the military rule, go Spain. Formula for a chance to get a settler from a hut is (TotalCites / NumActivePlayers). Plus the caveat you mentioned. Namely not having a settler on the map or in production or any unit with Settle AI strategy.

[@Foolian1332]

THIS IS THE CONTENT MY HEART HAS BEEN LONGING FOR

[@seana6523]

The happiness slider has been a tough sell for me, but you explain its advantages well. I’ll give it a shot.

[@isaackeigwin]

Suede changed my mind on this and it's worked wonders! More micromanaging in general helped me improve but using the slider in the early game keeps cities from revolting if you can't get a settler out right when they expand and still allows enough slack to keep the tech pumping out. Speaking from the regent/monarch level though so may not be as efficient on higher difficulties

[@Tservator]

Wow just as I came back to civ 3 you release this :D

[@nono4805]

They added in PTW iirc having the ai not patrol as we complained in Civ3 vanilla about the endless unit marching back and forth in the same area. I think this is what made the barbs sit if you were on a diag from them. They tried to offer a correction with the ini entry NoAIPatrol. If set to 0 the AI will randomly patrol. I cannot even remember how effect it was as I do not have barbs on (mostly AWE or Sid). Edit: Tundra forest I would chop it, if it is on the coast and could be entered by a landing unit. I do not want to give them a defensive bonus. Once I am closing in on Steam, all forest will get chop to make railing faster. If the tile is being worked, I will mine for shields or water if the shields will be lost or not needed.

[@suedeciviii7142]

Yeah I simplify things a bit. People send me save files where they have like 20 tiles of mined tundra but haven't improved core tiles that their cities are using.

[@ImEddy92]

Everytime I watch an over explained video it makes me want to scrap my current game and start over lmao especially trying to actually win on emperor now 🙃 keep em coming plz

[@ulle85]

Great to see civ3 videos again. Hoping to see more challenges, possibly some of the uncompleted ones like the worker-farming only challenge or the one-of-everything challenge!

[@suedeciviii7142]

I did worker farming already in a stream, it wasn't super engaging. I might do more challenge type videos but they'll be streams.

[@ulle85]

@@suedeciviii7142 okay thanks maybe I missed it - I Think I maybe saw one were you didn’t get too far. I guess for it to work you need to plan for the effective farming process 🚜🐄 😃 In any cases I appreciate the challenges, where we (foolishly) question whether you will win (at least in the early game)

[@ulle85]

@@suedeciviii7142 I hope the streams will be recorded to KZbin due to my time zone 🤞 Usually I have to attend to my kids when your stream starts 😅

[@suedeciviii7142]

@@ulle85 No that was the issue, that the farming isn't especially relevant. It's hard to make a set up where farming is key to win (IE, I can't just ignored workers or capture workers/settlers) but that is also fun to watch/not a huge chore.

[@thranax]

God, compared to you I waste like tons of food...and shields. Never worried about losing like 18 shields to switch an item etc. While mathing out every single resource isn't me I did take your advice to win. I built 50 bombers. 50 bombers op.

[@CecilXIX]

I have no idea if I'll ever play this game again but hot damn am I glad this video exists.

[@suedeciviii7142]

Was gonna do a part 2 of this

[@Jkcjaneway]

This was a really great video. I hope you go all the way through it! also still hoping you'd attack Alpha Centari again :P

[@Thunk00]

Great to see you back in the saddle. Hopefully we'll see lots and lots more!

[@puddnjones9816]

Shouldn't cities be planted outside of another cities zone of control or "cross" The second city is stealing a square from the capital.

[@suedeciviii7142]

No. Can I ask you, where did you learn this take on the game's strategy? I'm puzzled as to why this misconception is so common. Overlap is fine. Especially on maps like this, we want to cram more cities in since there's very little food outside the land near our capital.

[@MarcDufresneosorusrex]

@@suedeciviii7142 you know sometimes how the AI builds right in "your space"? They did that once and researched Artemis Temple... I vowed to try it on them .. I felt so cornered.👍👍

[@MAKGaming30]

There's one trick I'm sure you know but just didn't use, when u finish a tech and go to the science screen you can also go to the City Screen and change your building before the turn commences, so if you had a building that had one turn left before you went into finishing the Tech you can switch it at the same time/turn before it finishes, which allows you to maximise your shield yield on the next building. It's one of my favourite tricks but I'm sure you know about it suede 😊

[@suedeciviii7142]

I don't personally use advisor screen hacks. You can do some ridiculous stuff with it though. I generally play along with the rules found here hof.civfanatics.net/civ3/rules.php?show=disallowed

[@MAKGaming30]

@@suedeciviii7142 I knew there was rules for multiplayer I didn't realise there were some for playing AI. Thanks suede I'm always leaning something new about civ 3 from you and that roading trick you just discovered to is really cool👍

[@suedeciviii7142]

@@MAKGaming30 I didn't discovery it and it doesn't seem to work in SP hahah

[@andrewsharpe7630]

Great vid. I've been playing Civ 3 again, mostly as the Celts on a Continent Map on Regent Difficulty. I have NEVER tried an archipelago map before. I like the idea that an archipelago map means an easier time for a human player to expand and win. Might try it out.

[@eetuthereindeer6671]

Im still so sad that the diplomacy music is broken in this game on modern windows. The fix worked for a while but then stopped working. There's no fix now darnit :(

[@jameslevesque9720]

This was SOOO much better than Civ4-6. Came here from Civ 7 previews and they went in the wrong direction after 3.

[@suedeciviii7142]

Archi maps for Civ 3 are peak, because it rewards you for planting cities, but because land is gated by the ocean, you're not in such a hurry to claim all land immediately.

[@jameslevesque9720]

@@suedeciviii7142 There's also something I miss about the way te industrial revolution worked. There was real pressure to be at the top of the tech tree and make sure you had a source of saltpeter, and then oil. The curve is TOO gradual now. There's not that sharp jump from before and after industrialization.

[@Brian-yz8dj]

I exclusively play on arch maps. I can't help myself 😅

[@nombredeusuario622]

HE BACK :)

[@user-eu6mo2dz3q]

Hey quick question about your move at 24:46 how did make this move with using your mouse ? Seems like you bind it on your keyboard ? Could you please tell me the secret ahah ?

[@suedeciviii7142]

Which move? Moving the warrior east? Or do you mean "without" using your mouse?

[@user-eu6mo2dz3q]

@@suedeciviii7142 yeah I meant "without" sorry, when you moved the galley not the warrior

[@user-eu6mo2dz3q]

@@suedeciviii7142 the curragh* not the galley my bad

[@suedeciviii7142]

@@user-eu6mo2dz3q Using the numpad :)

[@kylewarkoczewski6428]

What's the shortcut to bring up the trading menu (52:03)?

[@TalostheCat]

Great one Suede!

[@experiotribe5643]

Hi suede, i am bot sure how true this is but you know if you get to late game and build apollo space program apparently after 200 years you settle on a new planet and there are many planets you can settle on as well as others civs can do the same

[@suedeciviii7142]

It's not true, sorry

[@dna1el]

I'm having difficulties with archipelago maps. I'm not able to trade enough luxuries, since you can't trade over sea/ocean until late medieval era. So trying to grow my cities beyond size 6 causes a lot of problems with unhappiness. This also means if I go republic I have no unit support. Any solutions? Diety difficulty. Love your videos btw. Could only play on warlord before I looked at your guides. Up until diety I haven't had too much difficulty winning on pangea and continents. Decided to try archipelago when I got to Diety, but couldn't make it work. Anyway, I think I may actually win my current game on diety, on continents! 😄

[@suedeciviii7142]

Republic is correct. Happiness slider for happiness. You shouldn't need many units to defend because the AI sucks at naval landings. On the flipside, if you spawn on an island with an AI, kill them. It should be relatively isolated, and you can use suicide galleys to trade for a ton of gold. Use warrior or chariot upgrade to kill.

[@carlosadiaz]

Wouldn't you prioritize Map Making so you can get the galleys and send settlers to the nearby islands?

[@suedeciviii7142]

Sometimes? But usually you're not done expanding across your own island before you might reasonably get map making. Having 100% of your home island is more important than small islands, unless you need to secure the only iron or something.

[@shlomomarkman6374]

Do owning the great lighthouse allows AI to cheat? In my last game the Vikings crossed 6 tiles of ocean in a galley to pop a city on my land. Then tried to sneak attack my capital with two Berserkers across the same ocean and i got lucky to not lose it (there was copernicus in there and very light defence of one pike and one 3MC) BTW, The Vikings were uncannily competent with their Berserker raids, landing 5 Berserkers on a lightly defended port and adding a Musket to defend it and they did it twice getting me ultra high war weariness. Their ally landed 9 cavs at once in the same war to try to get behind a chokepoint and that's on Monarch...

[@MarcDufresneosorusrex]

ahah that's kewl ; p

[@viurii4892]

Nice to see you!

[@olegil2]

Why oh why are you researching writing on 100% science? It takes 50 turns whatever you do with a single city, much better to use those turns to stock up on cash

[@samgriskauskas7670]

W content

[@Camander]

Just wondering if there is a reason why you never play with "accelerated production" as a rule?

[@suedeciviii7142]

It's not properly balanced. Some things like worker moves, anarchy length, and slaving aren't accelerated and it messes with balance.

[@bonusru2500]

👍

[@liltapatio]

lfg

[@blendbeast7322]

Hey! Thanks for this. I've always wanted to play these but it's never felt right so I stuck to continents and pangea(I love warring early and dominating for the rest of the game)

[@suedeciviii7142]

Great to hear. I casted this mostly as stream of thought, but in part 2 I'll do a recap of general archi strategy as it applies to the game. It was fortunate I spawned alone here, generally smaller island starts tend to be more difficult.

[@Brucemagoose511]

Excellent video aided by the poor land. Here is my over explained. I'm only Emperor level and would have made Curraghs explore my starting island first and made a couple more early game workers before 4th city and prioritised linking cities by road. I'd instinctively not have made that city northeast of Delhi due to rank corruption and wouldn't build a granary on a city with only 3x grassland tiles. I could also never plant a city out of range of that whale, but that's probably OCD talking! I also never build Wonders during expansion phase. I concede these tactics would not perhaps be optimum, merely stating how I would have approached things without having seen this video. So it is really interesting seeing a different approach from a more experienced player. Priorities and viewpoints that wouldn't even enter my mind but are obviously highly viable at worst and most likely optimum. I'd be really struggling to make cities on islands with sea or ocean boundaries as at the limit of my difficulty I find these corrupt messes (until I can navigate seas) that are military liabilities if I'm lagging behind the AI and they are bullying me. So I'd probably have turtled on the starting island, used diplomacy to try and prevent a runaway AI, priorisited tech development and delayed military action until later on against a nearby AI I had a tech lead against. If my first military action failed I'd likely then be doomed due to a lack of productivity on the starting island to build a new army. So I'd then have to shift focus to diplomatic victory but wouldn't have a large enough or productive enough AI to guarantee building the UN. In short, I'd be confident that I'd completely mess up this starting location :D What is the one biggest mistake I'd be making out of all the above?

[@suedeciviii7142]

@@Brucemagoose511 Most of this stuff is pretty good general advice! The only reason I'm breaking it is situational. I feel I explained pretty clearly why I opened granary here for example, otherwise, I'd do curraghs >> I could also never plant a city out of range of that whale So you'd plant on top of the cow? That city would be garbage for a long time since it wouldn't have any food (food from the cow is wasted) >>I also never build Wonders during expansion phase. Good general rule. However, you can break this rule on island maps. I'm seeing two big mistakes based on what you've said. >>Made a couple more early game workers before 4th city and prioritised linking cities by road. If you build a worker, it delays the settler that comes out of that city by 10 turns. So the new city is delayed by 10 turns. In 10 turns, that new city could build a worker. So your attempt to get more worker moves early actually costs you workers. Generally, don't build a second worker until you see that second corrupt shield! >>So I'd probably have turtled on the starting island There's something to be said for not expanding too thin with naval expansion, it can become a liability and the early return is limited. But at least try to grab a few island colonies. If you're worried about safety, focus getting whole islands to yourself. Your in much more danger of an attack if you share a land border with the AI.