Overlay of Front and Rear Brake Rotor Temperature Distributions - IZZE-RACING

[@switchpro3842]

These videos are always amazing to watch and study!

[@TURBOTRISTO]

this is a fantastic video i have shared it to a few thousand people on my socials

[@chillyfly]

I've just ordered an IR sensor for evaluating a brake cooling system on a Nissan GTR. I've had to order an analogue single channel sensor as we are using unused existing ECU inputs and don't have enough space on the Canbus, but live data like this is absolutely essential for properly testing. So many big brake kits and brake cooling 'add-on' carbon air guides are sold without any data whatsoever to back up the claims.

[@izze-racing]

Indeed, it's essential for proper brake tuning. Brakes are more about thermal management than cooling. Huge temperature delta's are terrible for thermomechanical fatigue (see our previous brake temperature overlay; it has huge temperature swings and, accordingly, constantly cracked rotors), and every pad has an ideal temperature range.

[@chillyfly]

@izze-racing Indeed. I always take time to warm them up carefully and in the pits I cool them with air into the centre of the disc bell, the same routing as the ducting takes the air. You see people blowing air onto the outer face of the rotor with fans too, in the pits. The problem I have is a 950bhp car weighing 1750kgs, on a circuit that is very hard on brakes. Something has to give somewhere... I should add, you see a lot of people just fitting bigger and heavier discs and calipers onto the car, then wondering why it hasn't cured the problem. Unless they're removing thermal energy from the disc, it's just adding thermal mass and delaying the temperature rise.

[@EnasiAU]

Awesome video and data, learned alot

[@Solongster]

it's actually insane how brakes heat up sooo freaking fast and how rear brakes are not playing a huge part in braking but more in controlling the car

[@izze-racing]

Indeed. Keep in mind this is using the OEM S2000 proportional valve, so there is a significant reduction in rear brake pressure as front pressure builds. However, rear wheel speed data shows that the rear wheels are almost always the first to lock. The S2000 has a heavy rear brake bias and it's rear brakes run hot because they dissipate heat slowly.

[@Solongster]

@@izze-racingexactly like my NC actually, front brakes really slow me down, but a touch of brakes in the corners ans the rear lock up. That's how i initiate all my slides actually and it's sooo surprising the first time but so controlable (can't do that with a bmw for example)

[@ArchOfficial]

@@izze-racing Doesn't the S2000 (including AP1) have electronic brake bias? That's what the technical specs claim, and what Honda's press materials for JP and EU claim. Does US have an actual static propvalve? What are the specs?

[@izze-racing]

@@ArchOfficial The only electronic driving aid on the AP1 is ABS and EPS. Everything else is purely mechanical. The rear proportional valve is near the driver's side engine mount; it's mechanical with a digressive knee as pressure builds. The DBW AP2's have a far more sophisticated ABS system and traction control; it uses EBD (Electronic Brake Distribution) and so I doubt it has a mechanical proportional valve.

[@ArchOfficial]

@@izze-racing Huh. I can't find a single morsel of information about the propvalve. Honda EU and JP press kits claim it has ABS + EBD, but the US kit leaves out EBD. I've also heard this explanation before. Does anyone know the threshold and ratio?

[@roadfordays]

Really cool to watch this!

[@pinguotto1313]

He's back ❤‍🩹

[@SurfaceEnergy]

😮Wow the amount of speed you're carrying in Hog Pen and Turn 1 ... goddammit my driving sucks! 😭 Awesome driving and video!

[@ArchOfficial]

Do you mind including some details about the car setup? In particular I'm curious about the ARB sizes/models, spring rates, damper models, ride height and alignment. If you don't mind also sharing what you used in some of the older videos, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

[@izze-racing]

Absolutely. Front ARB is Karcepts 1.25" x 0.120", 4th hole from full soft. Rear ARB is Karcepts 0.875" x 0.095", 2nd hole from full soft. Spring rates are 625 lbs/in, front, 550 lbs/in, rear. JRZ DA dampers set at R7C9, front, R7C7, rear. Tuned rear BSK. Ride height, 4.5" from pinch, front, 5.25" from pinch, rear. Alignment is 0˚ toe, front, 0.2˚ in, rear, -3.3˚ camber, front, -2.5˚ camber, rear, -5.5˚ of caster. Voltex Type 2 wing, 1700mm wide, 0˚ AOA, APR splitter with 3.5" extension. 17x9.5 et51 wheels with 245 RE-71RS, non-staggered

[@izze-racing]

Older videos: OEM 01 AP1 sway front, OEM 04-05 AP2 rear sway, same dampers/springs, same ride height, same alignment but with 1/4" rear toe-in and -2˚ front camber. No aero. Toyo RR's or NT01 on AP1 rear wheels, non-staggered.

[@ArchOfficial]

@@izze-racing Fantastic. Thanks. You might want to update the video descriptions with missing data just so people don't ask the same thing again. Oh, I forgot; do you know the wheel loads (at static, sitting still) of the car (now and before)? I'm using some of these videos to correlate an S2000 and some thermal behavior in a simulator and they've been very helpful.

[@izze-racing]

@@ArchOfficial Anytime, glad it helps. Wheel loads are around 625 lbs per corner. They have not changed.

[@ArchOfficial]

@@izze-racing Cheers. Is it really 50/50 cross balanced in every video? I have to inbalance my car to achieve temps and behavior closer to the video "Overlay of Internal and External Tire Temperature Distribution - Izze-Racing" posted on Sep. 6 2018. Otherwise left-rear and right-front are a bit cold.

[@kirbo1478]

Awesome video. Just a quick question, what software do you use to create the overlays for the videos?

[@izze-racing]

Thank you. The graphics were created using Matlab and edited using DaVinci Resolve

[@SamSkjord]

Totally understand if you woulnd't want to answer but, what sensor are these using? assuming MLX90621 or MLX90640?

[@izze-racing]

Feel free to send an email to [e-mail] to discuss thermopiles; I'm glad to share.

[@CrazyYorkX]

I am actually surprised that rear brakes participate more then I expected

[@omg_stoppit]

This is amazing. Thank you so much for this. I'd love if you'd be willing to buy and install the Honed Developments control arm brake cooling guides. I'd love to see how much of a difference they make given the kit is like relatively inexpensive.

[@izze-racing]

You're welcome. It's possible to have those fitted for a quick test; however, this setup could actually use a little more heat in the front. The front ducts were capped off for this reason. The front brakes are big for a 2500 lb car with only ~200whp and street tires. Temps will come up with slicks and more power. The rear brakes could use ducts as the S2000 is notorious for hot rear brakes. It destroys the rear bearings and hubs.

[@omg_stoppit]

@@izze-racing I know about the bearings and hub issue. I need to upgrade to the billet rear hubs from Urge. I also want to get the Sakebomb RX8 rear caliper upgrade. But this is good to know. Thank you.

[@r6scrubs126]

​@@izze-racingI'm confused why you say it's notorious for hot rear brakes when the data in this video seems to suggest the rears don't get very hot? What am I missing?

[@izze-racing]

@@r6scrubs126 To clarify: the OEM rear brakes run hot, and they stay hot because they are solid discs (no vanes). The rotors in the video are not OEM but aftermarket vaned rotors from URGE. They run about 200˚C cooler than OEM. I would still look into running ducts to further reduce rear brake/tire temperatures as the LR tire get very hot. Rear wheel bearing and hub failure on the S2000 is common, of which, is accelerated from brake heat.

[@justinjang2728]

Hmmm, rotors cool from ID to OD.🤔

[@izze-racing]

@@justinjang2728 Yes, the ambient air enters the center of the rotor before passing through the vanes and expelling radially (rotors cooling vanes are a centrifugal pump). The bulk temperature of that air will be coolest near the center and then heat up as it absorbs heat. Hence, the center will be cooler. Also, there is conductive heat transfer into the wheel; this will also make the center cooler. Finally, heat generation at the rotor-pad surface - assuming a uniform pad pressure - will increase with radial distance. Heat Generation (W) = Force x Velocity, where Velocity = omega x R, omega is the rotational rate and R is the radial distance along the rotor.

[@justinjang2728]

@@izze-racing Yep, all makes sense (although I didn't think of the uniform pad pressure vs radial distance traveled). Just really really really cool to see it all "graphically".

[@YootubeUK]

Does the outermost part of the disc, where the pad has a bit most leaverage (?) create slightly more heat and load? Interesting stuff.

[@izze-racing]

@@YootubeUK Yes. Watch the front brakes at 1:00 just after pressure is applied. Go frame by frame using the < and > keys.

[@YootubeUK]

@@izze-racing I'd seen F1 telemetry showing brake disc temperature over the whole disc but that clearly over simplifies the variance in temperature. Your data seems to confirm what I thought about heat where there's the most leverage. Do uprated "bitey" pads like your Ferrodos create more heat than say stock pads?

[@Astr0-samp]

Cool video but you drive like a total rookie

[@ArchOfficial]

Total rookie is a bit much. I've made a sim model of the car for my own correlation use, and it's quite oversteery, much more-so than it appears. There's still laptime in it, but it's also pretty easy to have an off and wreck it.

[@yamahaSHO]

Where can we watch your track videos?

[@SwingAxleLover]

I really don't know how you came to this conclusion. Driving was smooth and lines were clean.

[@divineaz341]

Spoken like a true keyboard warrior

[@EnasiAU]

Touch grass 😂