🟡 OVERPRICED - FUJI X Cameras? (Buy LEICA Instead!)

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

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[@phil5743]

The compact Fuji primes like the 23mm f2 are nowhere near £1000 and are a perfect match for an X-Pro 2/3.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks! I Googled Fuji-X lenses and took an average from the prices listed. (The X-Pro3 is the same price as a Leica SL though which was a huge shock).

[@moltonlava]

@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom The original SL is 5 years older with two newer versions at this point, so I don't think it's that big a shock (contrary to popular opinion, non-collector Leica digital bodies don't hold their value well at all). If Fuji got off their butts and made an X-Pro4 already I imagine you'd see used prices drop on the X-Pro3.

[@jameskendall74]

@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I own a M240 and an XPro-3. The quality is comparable despite the Leica being much older - the Leica isn't better though, certainly at hi ISO. So, the costs? The Xpro3 was £800 on eBay, my lenses are all between £250-£400 second hand. The excellent 35mm equivalent is £300. So £1100 total. The M240? Much more expensive at second hand prices. Both are good, but your comparison is way off the mark, even more so if you compare cameras of a similar age.

[@ianroe1076]

@@moltonlava This is why I keep holding off on buying an SL lol. Matt's videos make it look like a joy to use but I know it's just going to become much cheaper with time, compared to digital Ms which become cheaper but a lot more slowly

[@liambaillie218]

I think you missed the mark on this. For the same money you are getting a much newer camera from Fuji which comes with years of technological advancements (dynamic range and ISO performance being two that come to mind instantly). I think all of the arguments you made for saving money by buying legacy glass also applies to fuji x (I only shoot with M mount lenses on fuji). A visoflex is not free, that would be even more money if you need that as well. Third party lenses for fuji are crazy cheap and many are very very good. Not to mention if you like using vintage lenses there is a host of speed boosters that effectively give you full frame results (with an added stop of light) on your crop fuji bodies. In saying this, I personally would not be paying the second hand prices fuji's currently go for. They have jumped a lot recently.

[@XboxTheBeatboxer]

He didn't miss the mark. He clearly mentioned things like film sims, which Fuji people do like. Fuji shooters tend not to want to think about editing and color grading photos, which is fine. Many ways to shoot photography. As far as new/old kit, that's a personal decision. I decided to get a new Sony A7C rather than an old Leica (and rather than a new Leica), but all of my other logic was the same as his. So people do think and make decisions in this way as well.

[@XboxTheBeatboxer]

I will agree with you that my reasons for not getting an older Leica were due (in part) to the dynamic range and tech innovations point you made. But if the Leica (or any old camera) used to be good, it doesn't arbitrarily stop being good once it is old. If the images from an old Leica or Fuji are not good, then they were not good in their own day and we were just fooling ourselves by praising them. Things can get better than good. But if they are good they are good.

[@XboxTheBeatboxer]

What does "good" mean? In part, the prints are good for any of these systems (27" on long side). For social media, any of the cameras mentioned are more than good (~10 MP or less). Dynamic range has improved, but one can always make great photos within the bounds of their sensor (or film stock) performance. People made excellent images with ISO 200 film and with ISO 2500 digital sensors. That we can go to 12500 and higher today is evidence of being "better than good".

[@EdwardConde]

What he missed is reporting the actual cost of the gear. $1000 for a lens? But didn’t mention what lens just what he googled and that was the cost? So used body and new lens? Why not a new lens on the m240? A lot of holes.. but i do agree the SL is a great body and perfect for adapting. But i will still keep my X-Pro bodies and lenses around…

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks for the info and explanation. I guess I’m rare in that I’m not chasing extra high DR or ISO. User experience is #1 for me over all those features as long as I like the sensor output. I was way off on Fuji lens prices so apologies for that.

[@xjuanx92]

I can see how your experiences can come to these conclusions, very sound. But analytically I can’t agree that all Fuji users want Leicas. On the contrary I would venture to say it’s a minority. The majority want controls and lens lineup with quality. It’s what other manufacturers don’t have besides the one Nikon body. I hate to say this but Fuji does not equal Laica wannabes. IMO

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thank you. Yes I know Leica users love their cameras but it seems Fuji guys do just as much. Agree if you want an AF EDC camera for the masses Fuji will win.

[@janfrosty3392]

Who in their right mine would buy old decaying Leica M (it costs about USD 6k to replace sensor) in stead of nice Fuji?

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks. Me I guess hence the reason for the video. Perhaps not for everyone but I still pick older Leica over modern cameras. I just love the build and simplicity.

[@RrR__RrR]

I actually upgraded from a leica m240 to a much cheaper x-pro2 and I couldn't be happier. The x-pro2 just works and performs flawlessly unlike the old digital leicas which tend to be problematic with the slow and unreliable electronics. Image quality wise there is absolutely no disadvantage to the fuji when comparing to the m240.

[@jshell]

X-Pro 2 is awesome. It's very easy for me to spend all day looking at Leica Ms on eBay because they do look pretty. But then I look at my X-Pro 2, and it's quite pretty. And when I finally get my dumb self out of the house (I've been too much a recluse this year) and shoot with the X-Pro2, I'm constantly reminded I already have my platonic ideal of a camera already. Especially since getting a couple of native Voigtlander lenses for it - they are just manual focus heaven. And the stuff straight out of camera is just so nice. X-Pro2 really ought to be legendary.

[@cinqo7]

You can't use Leica's M lenses on your x-pro2. Reason enough to stick with Leica. Not to mention Full Frame vs APS-

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks. I was using the X-T2 and Leica M240 on a trip this morning for KZbin and for lightweight + speed + less cost the X-T2 is a great option for people. It was the X-Pro3 that sparked this video. Cheaper models were my expectation and they make complete sense for those wanting those features.

[@jshell]

you can use Leica M lenses on an X-Pro2. And screw full frame. For the price of a “maybe it will corrode, maybe it won’t” Leica M-E Typ 220 you can get a used GFX50R now and go bigger than full frame and bigger sensor is always better, right? (Trust me, I’ve been going around and around on a “Leica M8 or M-E or X-Pro3 or GFX50R?” eBay carousel for the past month. And then I always land on: my X-Pro2 makes me happy, I can’t afford native Leica lenses anyway, But an M8.2 sure is pretty, but the price is too high, and the carousel starts again until I remind myself I’m really just restless because what I’m really daydreaming about is a need to just travel and take photos instead of sitting home). If we had the internet when Barnack made the original Leicas, i can’t help but imagine Leica people would constantly be disparaged for their little crop format camera as it was such a smaller negative compared to 120 film. “38x24mm. How cute. It will never compete against all you can do with 60x45, 60x60, …” 😉 (I am taking a 6x12 medium format film camera on a coming trip. Yah, it’s just a Holga, but it’ll be so fun! And inherently like 1000x better than my 35mm film camera)

[@cinqo7]

@@jshell you are forgetting the great portability and small size of the M cameras. I, as an actual owner of a FUJI GFX100II, which is the best camera I have image quality wise, am seriously considering selling my Leica Q2, add some money (a lot more actually) and get a M11. The small size for a superb quality full frame camera is unbeatable.

[@nicolasfilsdejean]

Hi Matt, Thank you for your work and your time but I think you may have gone just a bit off on this one...and the last one as well. I tried as I might but there is NO way to find a good M240 (the least expensive of the Leica M digital range) at 2000£ (least expensive at MPB s 2300€) and then one has to addd to that 200€ worth of external view finder if you wantto compare to the X-Pro 3 EVF. And then there is teh issue with the lenses: teh least expensive Leica mount lens wil set you back at least 400€ for a usable relatively recent one so the final price is up tehre at 3000€. Ok, so you do have a full frame digital M at that price but it's at least 10 years old, doesn't offer auto-focus nore does it have a very precise lightmeter.... And to make the calculation worst (read: you're calculations are off the mark) an older XT-2 (still technically better and more modern than a Leica M240) and a fujinon 23mm will set you back maybe 900€ (for the whole set up)........Just saying

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks Nicolas, I saw the X-pro3 was more than the SL so I had to make a video. I did google UK searches on all mentioned models and prices and there were M240 from £2k when I looked. I was off on the Fuji prices so apologies. I still love older simple Leica with less features over modern everything cameras but that’s just me being old fashioned I think.

[@realniteart]

The same cheap adopted lenses that work on Leica will work on Fujifilm X. But there is no need, there are plenty of modern cheap and high quality lens available on X system. Comparing prices on used but current 5yo camera with used 13yo camera is just wrong when we talk about electronic devices. The closest comparable camera would be m10, and it is significantly more expensive than x system. Here is a different take. GFX100S is better in every way except size than any of mentioned cameras and it is dirt cheap right now with prices well under $3k. Many GF lenses are under $1k. This is an absolute steal to have one of the top quality camera and lenses with current sensor and electronics tech at these prices. It just never happened before.

[@realniteart]

Also, there's a very cheap and super cute Panasonic S5II with an L mount. It's a better value than both Fujifilm and old Leicas, unless you really want an optical viewfinder.

[@faiosung]

i would use my full frame lenses on the gfx

[@realniteart]

@@faiosung people do it, but there are plenty of native mount lenses that cover every need. And fujifilm lenses depreciate fast, you can have gf45 for way less than $1k. How cool is that?

[@faiosung]

@@realniteart not insanely priced, but i like using beat up old lenses

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks. I’ve not used GFX cameras yet, maybe I can get for a future video. I don’t agree with the age of cameras being relevant as long as you enjoy the experience and images. Some cameras are built to last so easily outlast newer cameras.

[@Azdak]

Sorry Matt, you've missed the mark on this one. You can get an X-T2 for £400 and then £250 for a used f/2 fujicron. So a much newer fuji than the m240, with 2 lenses for less than £1000

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thank you. Sorry yes I only saw the X-Pro3 price so that triggered this video. I'm glad there are affordable options too.

[@mignav464]

The Fuji used prices have not always been as crazy as they are today. In my opinion, way out of line. They picked up massively around 2021/22 as far as I remember...

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks. Yes maybe that's why it was a big surprise when I saw the current prices. I did think they used to be cheaper.

[@HenleyBailey]

It's easier to spend less with Leica than it is for other systems in my experience. With other systems I personally found I'd buy and sell lenses more frequently and buy additional kit which all adds up over time. With Leica I've basically just got the one digital body and a few lenses and I'm content, there's no GAS remaining - it's all about taking photos instead. Might sound a bit weird but it works for me. :D If I was trying to get in to Leica, I'd probably look for an M240, or maybe even an M9 that's had the sensor replaced then buy a Thypoch 28mm and Summicron 50mm.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks Henley, YES! Leica kill GAS for sure. I've been totally happy with my old models from Leica - M240 (2012), SL (2015) etc. (I'll get back to your email soon!)

[@HenleyBailey]

@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Yeah, it definitely helped kill my GAS. Everything became more about the least amount of kit I could get away with so when traveling or on a day out I just grab my tiny bag and I'm done.

[@moltonlava]

I'm envious, as I had the complete opposite reaction lol. I went from the D-Lux7 to the Q2 to the M11 to the SL3 all within a few years, plus an M3 on the side. I'm currently holding myself back from picking up a CL to backup my SL3. I don't want to even think about all the lenses and accessories I've bought. 🤣

[@XboxTheBeatboxer]

Yes, my Leica lenses are lifers. Even as my (digital) cameras change over the years, the lenses are the things I can truly pass on.

[@ditruter]

Leica kills your cash, so it kills you GAS too ;)

[@Mamo878]

Please. It's FAR easier to find a bargain on a Fujifilm camera body and Fujifilm lens if you're patient. Not so with Leica. Like almost _never._ Heck, I bought an X-Pro3 with a 23mm 1.4 for $500. An X-T20 with a Fujifilm kit zoom for $300. An X-T2 with a Fujifilm 35mm f2 for $400. An X-T3 body for $300. An XF 18-55 for $100. A Fujifilm 23mm f2 for $200. That's just off the top of my head. I'm sure I have even more bargain Fuji stuff. Not to mention all the cheap Nikon and Canon 35mm SLR cameras I have. They all work great and take photos equally as well as any M2. M3, or M6 and the only maintenance is installing light seals occasionally. And if a cheap Nikon SLR craps out, just buy another one for cheap. Again, non-Leica bargains are much easier to come across than any bargain find for anything Leica. Heck, it's $200 for just a freaking Leica battery for something like a Q3! That is just _stupid._

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks! Agree if you hold out you can find bargains for any system. I try to do this is buying online for any brand film camera + Leica stuff. Yes one expense that is hard to swallow is Leica batteries! 100%

[@Dan-G.1979]

In US a used X-pro3 is $1500 and the xf35mmf1.4 is $400. A used m240 is about $3000. I think the x-pro3 technology is closer to a m10. X-pro2 would be more in line with a m240.

[@arrangearrange]

M240 inexplicably 3k while m10 is 3500 on its best day wild days in the used markets

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks Dan, I saw the X-Pro3 price as £1500 here in the UK, the same as the SL. Yes if people need fast AF, super high ISO, IBIS etc non-Leica are better. I shoot digital like film so I use use the basics.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

I was really lucky with my marked up used M10 otherwise I never would have had one.

[@ianroe1076]

I think a really key thing to point out is that the more recent Fuji sensors (X-T3, X-T4, X-T5 etc) are significantly higher quality than the M Typ 240 in terms of noise handling and low light performance. I definitely noticed a drop in low light capability when I switched from the X-T4 to the M Typ 240, although this wasn't a major practical issue for me as I am used to shooting 400-speed film. I would say that, feature wise, the best comparison to Fuji would probably be the Leica SL system, which is still pretty expensive for comparable features and sensor quality. If you're willing to lose half a stop of bokeh, the 35mm (50 equivalent) and 23mm (35 equivalent) f/2 (so f/3 bokeh equivalent) lenses can be had for about $450 USD new each with standard AF capabilities. The X-Pro3 is an unusual camera in that it hasn't been succeeded yet, so previous models of the more major camera lines (X-T-, or X-T-0) are way cheaper than getting a used X-Pro3. I sold my X-T4 for about $1200 USD with the (very good) kit lens included. I would be very interested in seeing you take a look at the X100VI, if you could get your hands on one.

[@ianroe1076]

@@cameraprepper7938 the X-T4 also doesn't have banding, which has been the real killer for me when using the Typ 240 in the dark.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks. The video is based on the X-Pro3 as that camera won my poll so I looked up the price. I saw it was above the SL so had to make a video. Fair point on lenses. Sorry to misquote those.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks. The video is based on the X-Pro3 as that camera won my poll so I looked up the price. I saw it was above the SL so had to make a video. Fair point on lenses. Sorry to misquote those. Not everyone shoots in the dark so not all cameras need ISO 50K. I rarely go above 1600.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks. The video is based on the X-Pro3 as that camera won my poll so I looked up the price. I saw it was above the SL so had to make a video. Fair point on lenses. Sorry to misquote those. Not everyone shoots in the dark so not all cameras need ISO 50K. I rarely go above 1600.

[@ianroe1076]

@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I found it has less to do with the iso ratings within the camera, and more to do with how the camera can handle pushing in post. Fuji cameras have a very nice feature called iso invariance where pushing the files produces the same amount of noise as recording the image at a higher iso to begin with, which is in contrast to the 240 where cranking up the iso can ruin the picture, or not cranking up the iso when you need to can lead to not enough data being gathered. The big issue for me with the 240 sensor is banding. I don't mind noise or loss of detail much at all, but the banding really can make the image look more artificial. It's honestly a wonder how some of these cameras have advanced in the last 10 years. I love my 240, but I certainly view it like a Leica M film camera with a digital sensor in the place of film, as opposed to a digital camera that happens to operate like a Leica M. I'd love to play with an M10 someday, because I know you've said it's a pretty marked improvement in sensor tech.

[@Tekrel]

Fuji retail is fine but the current used market is out of wack. Sold my x100v last year for $2000 bought a Leica Q for $1800. Sold my spare x10's for $500 a piece i bought them two years ago for $80.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Wow, great deals!!

[@albedo0point39]

Matt, are you getting hold of the new Voigtlander 50 f2.2?

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Yes 👍🏻 Stay tuned

[@huxleymiller2022]

Inspiring video as usual. You have a collapsable lens on your Leica M 240. Can you collapse it without damaging the sensor?

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks. Yes no issues, it’s designed for Leica M

[@throtol]

I restarted my photographic journey with a used Fujifilm X-E3. three years ago. In the early 2000's I was tasked with taking inventory photos with a first-generation Fujifilm camera, hence migrated to it once I wanted to go back into photography. The camera cost me more than three years ago that it goes for today. I do not shoot a lot with auto, but there are alternatives to purchasing Fujifilm lenses. I purchased a Fringer adapter that allows me to use Canon EF lenses with autofocus on my Fujifilm camera. I also find that more of the vintage lenses have adapters for Fuji. I recently purchased a Contax Zeiss N series lens and the only adapter available is for Sony and Fuji. I am an avid film photographer so like to use the same lenses between my Leicas and Fuji. My Leica M lenses work fantastically as do most others.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks! Yes it's great using the same set of lenses across film and digital bodies. I do this a lot.

[@Funktrainer]

Fujifilm has always been overpriced for the lack of quality this system offers. That's why I went all the way Leica and skipped APS-C. A lot of hassle and money saved in the long run. No faulty electronic lenses, no bad image quality because of the smaller sensors, no inferior autofocus, no cheap build quality.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks, yes I hear some Fuji have electronic issues.

[@Goodwine59]

@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaComLeica M11, too …

[@vincepetitjean]

M240 released in 2012 Xpro2 released in 2012 Used m240 on mpb $2999-$3059 Used xpro2 on mpb $1159-$1499 Third party lens Ttartisan 27mm af used on keh for 128 new on bhphoto for 149 Used Fuji lens 35mm f2 $245 35mm f1.4 $394 I’d say you didn’t do enough research to accurately compare the pricing of these 2 brands. Yes the xpro line has held a higher resell value than most cameras. This is largely due to its rangefinder design.

[@Goodwine59]

XPRO-2 was released in 2016

[@vincepetitjean]

@@Goodwine59 you are correct. Xpro1 was 2012 which goes for $559-$714 on mpb

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks! I only compared the X-Pro3 as that got the most votes in my poll. Sorry I was a bit off with the lenses.

[@PeachPeachPeachBBY]

I paid 650 for a used xpro 2 and 400 on a new 35mm f2 so about 1k total. No where near 2500 dollars in my one lens set-up. You cant buy a single leica body for that amount... Dont conpare new fuji gear prices with used leica prices, its apples to oranges mate.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks. Sorry the video talks about the Fuji XPro3 not the 2. I did this based on the answers from my poll where it was voted #1. The whole video was a reaction to the XPro3 being the same price as a Leica SL. It’s good to know there are cheaper options too. I’ll mention that in the next video for clarity.

[@timmysutton]

Comes down to whether or not the user is comfortable shooting manual focus. From the video presuming they were looking for an xpro3 that makes sense to switch to Leica but if they were using the XT series, they should stick with Fujii auto focus..

[@901pics]

Tim, I used to use manual most of the time because I liked the look...if I get a subject that needs auto focus, with fujifilm I can shoot both. Now that I'm old and my eyes are not as good. I do shoot auto more than I probably should....it does take the fun out of shooting and it makes photographers lazy.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks! Yes it was for Fuji-Leica fans using M glass to the most part.

[@Wutbeer0]

I’m already own M240. I’m wondering about another solution which is affordable price for me is Sony A7c + TechArt It’s still fullframe with auto focus

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks! Yes I need to cover Sony too at some point. Some of my Patreon love their Sony bodies with mentioned TechArt adapter.

[@hoagyguitarmichael]

I feel there is one more thing to mention. I love my Leica SL but have recently come up against the Leica repair issue. Dropped the camera and the SD card door wouldn't open. No one will work on Leicas. Had to bring the camera from Nimes to Montpellier to have them ship it to Leica, who are charging me 1600 euros to fix it. After shipping, it is going to cost me almost as much as I paid for it used. Not sure if Fuji owners have this issue.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Have you already paid? If not don’t and just get another camera or try to fix yourself. Agree Leica repairs are expensive but to be fair if you had dropped other cameras it would likely be much worse damage. Not many cameras are as solid as the SL.

[@hoagyguitarmichael]

@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I looked into getting another SL and ultimately it would have cost me the same or more. This way they are refurbishing the whole thing. Unfortunately, who knows how many more moths until it is done, but thanks to your help I am quite enjoying using the Lumix S5 with my Leica lenses ;-)

[@AnthonyJamesOwen]

Hi Matt, I really enjoy your work and all the KZbin videos you did so far. This comparison is a liitle bit of the mark in my opinion. I had a LEICA M262 and a LEICA M6 which I both finally sold because I can’t get sharp photos on rangefinder because my eyesight is getting worse as I became older. No problem on alll my Fuji X cameras with autofocus. I still have all my Fuji X cameras and lenses and adapter etc. and bought a used Leica SL a few years ago. The best viewfinder anywhere. An EVF which you can really use to focus manual lenses (like my old Sumicron 50mm f2) even with my not perfect eyes. Better than the EVF’s from Fuji with manual Leica lenses. Unfortunately they don’t pack the SL viewfinder in a classic M body (E body?). I would sell all my other gear to get this one. What is the problem with the SL if is so great? It is just too heavy for my taste whenever I travel. And if you use original L lenses … most are also very heavy. Or the Q vs. the X100 - It is not that a LEICA Q2 is better or worse than a FUJI X100 V or so … I have both and they are just different cameras. I pick up my X100 V for my trips to Japan more often than I picked my Q … because of compactness and weight. It all adds up in my backpack… And all the other arguments with used (older) cameras which are mentioned already: A M240 is an old(er) camera than a X-Pro 3… and if you compare a used X Pro 2 (which I like personally better than the X-Pro 3) the price is ⅓ compared to a M240 body in same condition. But why compare at all? Different system for different purposes.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks Anthony, great to hear you got to try the beautiful SL finder and yes with bigger lenses it is too much to carry. I use small M and LTM glass most of the time with mine. +1 to loving small cameras/ lenses in general. Leica cameras age very well so I don't mind using 2012 or 2015 models instead of the latest offerings. (I was using my M240 today). I used the X-Pro3 as the example as that's what people voted top in my poll but I hear there are cheaper models too. Thanks

[@paulbeale7947]

Hi Matt, I have been using Fuji x cameras since they first came out first a x100 and then a xpro1. I think that by shooting raw you are missing out on why a lot of people love shooting Fuji, their jpegs and film simulations. I use my xpro1 like a film camera, I choose my film simulation, make any alterations to it in camera and shoot and use the jpegs straight out of the camera. I for one do not want send hours in photoshop. I use the 27 mm pancake lens on my xpro1 and use auto focus, my eyes are not as good as they used to be. If I want to use a manual focus lens I will take out my Leica r6 with sumicron or my voigtlander r3a with 40 mm nokton both brought after reviews by you, keep up the good work and try the Fuji jpegs and film simulations.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks and nice cameras mentioned. Yes I’m test Fuji files currently so will compare JPEG in the future.

[@callending]

Matt, I'm an absolute fan of your work, stylistics, vision and sensibility. You're also humble and compassionate, a guy to have coffee with. THANK YOU for the work and time you're investing in Fuji presets too. I've relied on your opinions about Voigtlander glass and just purchased a gently used Voigtlander 40mm f1.2 to be used w/adapter on my Fuji bodies (X-E1, X-T30, X-T3, and X-T4). I'm also a holdout from the Nikon DSLR era and shoot the 58mm Nokton on both Nikon and adapted to Fuji. I have a fav 35mm 1.4 Fuji lens I adore. I firmly believe the X-Pro3 to be the anomaly in the Fuji lineup insofar as price goes -- that silly thing carries a legacy markup that isn't justified by a cost-benefit analysis IMO compared to other X-Trans 3 sensor bodies. I don't fault you for using that as a benchmark if you didn't already know the "mystique" surrounding that one model (X-Pro 2s aren't exactly cheap either, tho). I've been an ardent amateur / hobbyist photographer for 40 years, and - again - just from my view and experience - I don't believe the transition from ANY non-Leica system to Leica is solely about the cost or results. The thing I hear most about Leica has to do with gear snobbery and arrogance, and just behind that is the comparison of Lumix to Leica for "non-snobbish" photogs. I think many guys are wary of the perceptions surrounding the Leica equipment - like it's a rich man's folly for the weekend Porsche drive in the country, beautiful woman along for more eye candy. Sorta hard for the "working man" to get his head around being perceived as a Hollywood wannabe over his choice in camera gear. Cost aside, I understand the emotional, experientialism of enjoying (...whatever). Yet, these days everyone seems to be bristling with covetous indignation over the most innate things. One thing that separates you from many YT photography opinionators is your sense of parity with other human beings. It's no wonder beautiful women are keen to have you photograph them, and why guys like myself are able to relax and enjoy your content - occasionally benefiting greatly from your experience. All that to say...keep up the good work, the generous sharing of your opinions and experiences, and photo samples. You are an inspiration to many.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thank you that’s very kind! I don’t overthink the Leica thing. I tried one once and just fell in love and the rest came after but was never planned. (I was teaching a model workshop with my Nikon DSLR and my student let me try his Leica. It changed everything)

[@orangorill]

After considering both Fuji and Leica (and actually picking up an X-E1 and a couple of manual lenses), I actually did go for a Lumix S5. It's pretty close to a slightly less pretty Leica SL, and the Contemporary Sigma lenses are just as nice and tactile as the Fujicrons.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks, yes the Lumix S5 offers great value for money when paired with nice glass.

[@901pics]

I am not familiar with Leica. I like fujifilm for its smaller size/cost and most importantly the dials ON the top of the camera for the exposure triangle. The smaller sensor size is an "almost" non-factor with great lenses. I'm not against Leica. If I had the money, I would love to try Leica...I would love to see if it's as fast and if I would see if creativity is the same or if it's hindered by the menu system. I do like the film simulations...it helps with creativity.

[@901pics]

My future camera plans include Xpro4, GFX 50r2 (fixed 28mm), and swapping my xt3 for xt5 or xt6 I have viltrox 13 1.4, 27 1.2, 75 1.2 Fujifilm 16 1.4, 18 1.4, 50-140 2.8 Voigtlander 35 .9, 58 1.4 My images on @ luckylucyliu which has a link to Flickr Would my images really be any better on a Leica?

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks, Fuji definitely suit some photographers more I think. Most will appreciate their size. The M10 offers the same ‘exposure triangle dials’ but costs more.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks, Fuji definitely suit some photographers more I think. Most will appreciate their size. The M10 offers the same ‘exposure triangle dials’ but costs more.

[@mudgie069]

Good video showing what you can get if you go the Leica route for quite cheap money. One thing I don't know if you are aware but you can also get the film simulations using Raw so that's also an advantage for Fuji users. Personally I don't think you can go wrong with either system these days or any camera system in this price range. It comes down to what suits you best.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks for your balanced answer and interesting about the film sim for RAW. No I didn't know that bit.

[@Vagabond1031]

Great breakdown. I wanted to get Xpro 3. I REALLY really wanted to like it for the auto focus, OVF and still able to do manual focus. But I can't! Coming from Leica M, I need the zone focus ability. Nearly all AF lens for XPro that I've found does NOT have distance marking on the lens making it very hard to do zone focus.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

@@Vagabond1031 yes I think Ms are better for manual focusing.

[@Nilly-tube]

$1000 gets you 2-3 used fuji f2 lenses...

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks. I'm glad there are cheaper ones too. I made this video when looking at the X-Pro3

[@northstar1950]

I have a Fuji x Pro 1 and the only lens I use with it is the Fuji 18-55 super EBC and I like it a lot. A camera that is easy to use fully manually with it's film camera layout. Each to his own though.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks, there was a lot of love for the Pro 1 in previous comments.

[@RolosdaTuga]

Good morning dear friend, I hope you're well! Here in Portugal everything is the same, everything is calm and sunny. Look, I think this is the first time I've commented on a KZbin video for this purpose, but I feel I should do so not as a criticism but as a constructive comment. I have a lot of respect for you and your work, I think you're a very humble and calm person and in a way I agree with many of the criticisms that have been pointed out in the comments, but the people behind a monitor can be super cruel and impeccable when it comes to putting down other people's work. Regarding the video, I think you did less well, starting by setting an extremely high price for the fuji! I'm a user of both brands and systems, and by way of example I can tell you that relatively recently I sold an XT2 for 500 euros that was practically brand new, you also have the XT3 for 700 euros, which in my opinion is the best buy in terms of quality and price for the fuji X system, which far surpasses the XT2 in practically everything, especially autofocus and video. When it comes to lenses, you have a wide choice, from manual lenses to autofocus. I can mention a few that I have and that I think are a really good deal: TT Artisan 17mm f1.4 (75€ used), viltrox 13mm f1.4, viltrox 23mm f1.4, viltrox 56mm f1.4 and viltrox 85mm f1.8 (average 270€, 330€ used). In conclusion, I think it's more assertive to take into account 1000 euros for a very acceptable second-hand Fuji X system, rather than the value you set for comparison with the leica. Taking advantage of the fact that I'm using the word "comparison", my opinion is that the leica M system is so different that it simply can't be compared for all the reasons we know. More assertive if you want to compare both systems/brands is to stick to the SL, CL and Q systems, but that's my humble opinion. You mention the fact that the full-frame sensor has more advantages when it comes to portrait photography, and I agree! However, if we're looking at street photography, a 1.5 crop sensor (not x1.6) is very interesting because with the same aperture you can have a much greater depth of field, especially if you're like me who practically only uses the zone focus system. Another thing you mention in the video, which I don't think is correct, is that fuji's simulations aren't useful for those who shoot raw, I only shoot raw and I can tell you that in lightroom the files are loaded with the color profile of the simulation you used, and you still have the advantage of being able to change the simulation to your liking and then use it as the initial preset for editing. Finally, I think it would be an excellent idea for you to make a new video taking into account all the knowledge that has been passed on to you through the comments, I think we all have the right to make mistakes and only those who try make mistakes, so congratulations all the same! hugs and all the best!

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks for taking the time to write. Sorry I was way off with the lens prices. I used the X-Pro3 as it was voted #1 Fuji in my poll. Yes I’ll put the records straight in a follow up video. Thanks

[@montycraig5659]

I have never looked at Leica, bc I didn’t think they were affordable. I have always loved Leica, and their lenses though. Is it possible for get a Leica film camera, and lens in this price range?

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Hi yes film Leica can be even cheaper. Look at Leica iii (that I love so much) or Leica R if on a budget. See those videos and blog posts

[@urbananjar]

I think your calculations are a bit biased. I got a X-PRO 1 and a 23 mm 2.0 for about 600$. A very old Leica lens and a fairly new Fuji lens might be a better comparison. Even for Fuji there is also a possibility to use very cheap but quite decent Chinese glass if you prefere.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks. I used the Xpro3 as it was voted number 1 in my poll. Good to hear others are cheaper.

[@RikMaxSpeed]

This video doesn’t work for me, I priced up an M11-P with a couple of Leica lenses and ended at £17’000. This is 3 times more expensive than my Sony A7CR (same 60MP sensor + IBIS + auto-focus) + GM lens + Voigtländer for the bokeh and creamy looks.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

M11-P very nice!! If I won the lottery I would get that camera as my small Leica setup (and replace a few of my existing bodies). Yes not cheap for sure so I need to wait some years. Thankfully the older models can offer excellent alternatives if on a smaller budget.

[@RikMaxSpeed]

@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom It’s annoying that they are just SO expensive. But also inferior tech, except, possibly, for the lenses. Then again you can buy a 60MP Sony camera (same sensor) and a bunch of Voigtländer lenses for less than an M11-P, or even a single new Summilux lens. It’s possible that Leica will go the way of Moog…

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

@@RikMaxSpeed the new ones are certainly unreachable for me

[@mgscheue]

Hmm, I counted 11 Fuji lenses, on B&H, for $600 or less. Voigtlander has 4 for $600 or less for the X mount. I'm not counting black/silver variations. Then there are all the Chinese lenses in the price range. A nice thing about having both a Leica M and a Fuji is being able to use the M mount lenses on the Fuji, with an adapter, though as you say, you're throwing away part of the image circle. I think the M10 is sort of the sweet spot for used M cameras, and that's what I have, but it was still more than double what my XT-5 cost. The older ones are great, too, but maybe not quite as comparable to current Fuji offerings.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks! Sorry for missing the mark on Fuji lens prices. I’ll correct in the next video. +1 for sharing lenses over 2 cameras.

[@mahdiali6732]

I am a Fuji user and planning to get the 28mm Elmarit lens to be used with Fuji. I’d love to get a Leica one day but it is not that I can’t afford, I see the prices for newer models unjustifiable yet. Your comparison isn’t fair IMO because the M240 is too old and has many limitations. Between the M240 and the Fuji XT2, I would honestly get the Fuji. Having said that I’d love to get a Leica one day, doesn’t mean that I would settle for any ‘Leica’, it’ll definitely be the newer models.

[@mahdiali6732]

To add, Fuji is still ahead of Leica with the hybrid viewfinder which I guess will be implemented in the M12 (probably) and the IBIS. I am aware that the Leica is more into the photography experience rather than tech features and I admire it for this reason. As for the image quality, Leica isn’t the best either, I would look for Nikon any day over Leica for this. My views could be biased because I use Nikon and Fuji.

[@TheMhackX]

Just giving my comment on your plan : I’m using the Voigtlander color skopar 28mm with my X- pro2 and it’s a fantastic combo! For the difference of price compared to the elmarit, I highly recommend you to try this more cheaper solution ;)

[@mahdiali6732]

@@TheMhackX Thank you for the recommendation?

[@mahdiali6732]

@@TheMhackX would you please recommend an adapter as well?

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks! I was using the M240 and X-T2 shown this morning. Both have their strengths. If you like mod cons get Fuji, if you like simple and solid maybe Leica. Sadly yes newer Leicas are too expensive.

[@maj7587]

Hey Matt, always enjoy your videos. Looking forward to your thoughts on the X-Pro3. I’ve had a run of Leica Qs: the original Q and a Q2M. I recently sold my Leica Q for A$3k (GBP1.525k). Love Leica, but the absence of weather sealing on the Leica Q (typ116) was a limitation in terms of use. Also the menu system and processing seemed slow relative to a current camera. My X-Pro3 I picked up second hand with a 23mm 1.4f lens for A$2.8k (GBP1.425k). I ended up selling the lens that came with it and got a new f2 35mm, a secondhand f2 23mm and a new Voitlander 27mm… I probably ended up being out of pocket by only a $100. I think your starting point pricing might be a little out. Also, I thought I would miss my Leicas. I loved them. But actually I don’t miss as much as I thought I would. I’m excited to be picking up a brand new X100VI. While not full frame I think its megapixels will make up for that. Also, worth noting that my X-Pro3 set up and the X100VI costs about the same as a secondhand Leica Q2… In terms of image quality: I definitely agree that Leica is special. I may get another one day. But at the moment I am liking Fuji just as much and the system has its own special. Apologies for this next comment (which is a little negative)…. I am very happy to pay for quality and Leica has that in spades. However, you can get a good sense of the company’s view on the world when you look at the relative price of its accessories. While it might be argued that there is a nominal lift in the quality of Leica accessories it is not always the case. I think Leica overcharge in this regard and turns me to reflect on whether this is a part of the Leica corporate culture. It raises a question as to whether this might also be the case for the cameras… and they do not represent good value. Always appreciate your videos and keep up the good work.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thank you. Yes Leica charge silly prices for batteries/ extras for sure. Hassy do the same and they are the top 2 for me for nice to use cameras. If other brands ever make cameras as nice to use as these at normal prices they’ll be in trouble but for now there is no direct competitions d they’re doing well at it, year on year profits. Helped a lot by the Q series.i have no inside info, just public news. Other brands like Fuji offer more features for less so they are a no brainer for most features.

[@GamachePhoto]

Matt, I think you did a great job in explaining the Fuji vs Leica. As a retired Pro photographer for 40 years, I sold most of my “Pro” gear, Hasselblad, Canon, 4x5 and purchased Fuji XPro2, then XT4, sold those then XPro3 added a few lenses and finally sold all that ( hated to sell the 35mm F1.4 what a great lens ) and bought Leica with Voigtlander lenses. A camera I’ve always wanted, couldn’t be happier and will never go back. All the best.

[@fourcornerseducation8828]

That is the big difference- you have always wanted a Leica - I come from a world of Zeiss glass and wait - probably never to not wait - for a digital G2 (a sony is not a digital G) - so in the meantime I use an x-pro 2 (didnt feel the need for an x-pro 3) and until it was stolen a Zeiss Ikon ZM with a mix of Voigtlander L39 and Zeiss ZM glass - still have a bessa R2 that is now 20 years old a biogon, planar and sonar all IMO better than Leica glass, the nearest I can get to a continuation of Contax and Rollei 3003 (there are those of us who love them) and the fabulous Zeiss T and Rollei HFT glass. PS I have never made a living taking photographs but spent 15 years taking photographs as part of my profession and always used Contax because of the glass- for fun and personal use have always use pentax and Rollei 35mm SLRs both because of the glass a zeiss thing but we are a slowly dying breed ;)

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks. Great to hear you've experienced both systems!

[@Funktrainer]

I paid 1700,-€ for my Leica M9-P and a 50mm 1:2 rigid Summicron five years ago. No issues so far. Actually one of the cheapest cameras I ever owned. I lost a lot of money when shooting digital Nikons before switching to Leica and was never satisfied with the digital Nikon look.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks. I came from Nikon DSLR too and was never happy.

[@taigenetsudo4273]

When you get your hands on the X-Pro3, I recommend trying manual focus X mount lenses on it, start with Zonlai and 7artisans. If you want the equivalent DOF of a FF f1.4 then try the Brightin Star 35 0.95 or 7 artisans 35 0.95. That'll give you the look of a FF 50mm f1.4. Great videos Matt!

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks for the tips! I'm not sure ill had access to the mentioned lenses but knowing their FF sister lenses that makes good sense. Thanks!

[@SpencerLupul]

1000 pounds is a proud lens budget for Fujifilm. I think most are buying the 18/27/18-55 which can be had together for around that price… so same price would you rather have 3 lenses or 1 in your system. secondly, full frame is not necessarily all you speak it to be. It is, if you work only within the world of full frame lenses. There are increasingly available fast aps-c lenses that can get equivalent results to ff maybe not 1.4, but certainly F2, which is enough bokeh for me.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks Spencer. Sorry if the lens price was steep. I just looked on the Fuji site. Yes agree if use APS-C lenses that helps give the look in some respects but I like to use the same lenses on film and digital so I sold my only Leica APS-C lens. Even if lens prices are the same, X-Pro3 vs SL are the same price.

[@eizo-gak]

X-T3 user from Japan. I bought used X-T3 at 800$ (2020), now it became 1300$. FUJI X cameras are generally too expensive, especially in my country. This might be caused by Japanese weak yen¥ economic environment, but it's still overpriced honestly. Affordable hybrid camera (with AF, 4K60p Movie ,and Variety of lenses) had been only FUJI. I believe SONY α6x00 & ZV-E10ii would change the game, If they had joysticks. S5(cropped 4K60p) & Leica CL needs more L-mount APS-C lenses, I think. At first glance it is funny to buy Leica M instead of X-Pro3, but looking the price, should not be so silly idea🙂

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks! Yes after seeing the prices I had to make a video

[@luisbustamante9869]

You can get a second-hand Fuji X-Pro 2 for around £800 and a 23mm f2 for around £300 or a 18-55mm f2.8 for £250. Difficult to beat at those prices and you get state of the art technology thrown in for free. It's difficult to tell the pictures apart from Leica's. Or you can get a s/h GFX50s II for £2k with a 35-70mm lens for around £500 if you want to blow them all out of the water.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks! Yes GFX look great value compared.

[@thewildgoose7467]

A bit of comparing "apples and oranges" here Matt as you're showing a Fuji x-t2 but quoting an x-pro3? A more apples to apples comparison would be below (both 2nd hand prices)... Fuji x-t2 (24mp) + 35mm f2 XF lens = £744 Leica CL (24mp) + 35mm f2 M lens = £3,183 So, same sensor size, same focal length lens & aperture, but one costs more than x4 times the other and the cheaper one has AF if required? The x-pro3 is a bit of an outlier to compare with as it's regarded as a "cool" camera meaning cool camera prices. But....if you want to include different formats when comparing then why not include medium format? For £2,500 you could get a 2nd hand Fuji GFX 50r + a new GF 35-70mm (great lens). 51mp and shallower DOF than your full frame example? And if you want proper manual focus then forget the 35-70 and get an adapter and some vintage glass instead? You also have the advantage of the 0.8 crop and wider aperture so a Nikkor 105mm f2.5 for example becomes a 85mm f2', a 50mm f1.4 becomes a 40mm f1.2 etc. etc.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks for doing the numbers. Yes sorry my X-pro3 loan has not arrived yet so I only have the X-T2 loaner for footage. Agree the GFX should be a nice alternative to FF. Maybe I can try one in the future and feedback. It was SL vs X-Pro3 being the same price that triggered this video.

[@smsellars]

Thanks for letting me know about LUMIX S5, which I’ve completely missed. For some reason I’ve never connected with Leica M digitals, having owned M8 & M10. Though I still love my M2 & M3! I’ve come to appreciate Fuji for ergonomics like older 35mm film cameras, but smaller, lighter bodies & lenses. My X-Pro2 has been my main digital body for several years now and love the built in EVF with rangefinder-ish form factor. Also now getting used to an X-H1 and appreciate IBIS in the body. I’m not a pro, so 24mp APSC sensor plenty for now. I’ll use my 4x5 or 8x10 view cameras for certain projects. As always, thanks again for sharing you thoughts & experience. 😎

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks and great to hear you shoot LF too! I did a few vids about mine. Yes the S5 offers fantastic value but I’ll still likely sell mine as never use it as I have the SL.

[@tommorgan3125]

Interesting comparisons indeed. I have a XT5 and my favourite lens to use with it are the Voigtlander 23mm f1.2 Nokton and the Voigtlander 35mm f2 Macro APO Ultron. Both lens cost £900 mint second hand and are superb. I do like Leica and I have an M3 tucked away for occasional use.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Nice lenses! It’s nice when you can use the same lenses on film too.

[@larsgibbon3327]

I see the comparison as comparing "apples and oranges". I have Fuji cameras and do not see it that I couldn't afford a Leica. The Fujis suit what I shoot. The prices you have quoted for used Fuji seems very high. If you are a portrait shooter, why not use a GFX camera? I bought a GFX50sii at a time Fuji was offering a rebate plus a second hand mint condition 32-64mm lens for about the total equivalent of 2000GBP. You mention legacy lenses, all of them can also be used on a Fuji camera. May I suggest you do a comparison with a Fuji GFX and a Leica of equivalent cost.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Hi thanks, yes agree to the GFX cameras as another great option for portraits and for adapting lenses (based purely on the sensor size). As mentioned in the video I only cover Leica here but yes maybe I can do GFX vs Leica in the future like I did with Hasselblad X2D.

[@steveborghardt]

I love your channel but I think your Fuji experience comparing the X-T2 to Leica cameras is off the mark on price. My X-T4 was about $1,200 and Fuji lenses go for between $500 and $600 used for good primes on MPB. I'm looking forward to see your impression of the X-Pro 3 - that experience I think will change your mind a bit after using the X-T2. Agree with you on the piece about using full frame lenses on APS-C cameras you loose some of the goodness.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks Steve

[@nicolasletellier6162]

I'm sorry to tell you that, but your view on Fujifilm is at least really surprising. Because take a Fujifilm 23mm f/2 it's £350 so we are far from the £1000 you find. Also, comparing brand-new gear with autofocus, and more modern features against second-hand cameras and third-party manual focus lenses seems a bit of a stretch. Even if I understand what you tried to say. Adding to my personal opinion: Why would you buy a Leica body if you don't use Leica lenses? I mean you can use 7artisant ( the most underrated lens brand), Voigtlander, or any other vintage vibe lens brand on many cheaper and technically better bodies. And one little advice, with the camera you use for film, use manual focus. Because honestly, the focus breathing is horrible.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks! Yes sorry if I quoted high for the Fuji lens average prices. I guess people use Leica for different reasons. I love using them as a platform with a variety of lenses + yes sorry for the focus breathing. I'd not tried that setup before.

[@nicolasletellier6162]

@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom You didn't have to say sorry. It was just a surprise and share what I think same as you did. But thank you for your answer.

[@leonarddavis8449]

Hi Matt, I don’t quite understand, there are lots of Fuji and other primes including voightlander new for under £600.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks, sorry I just searched the Fuji sites online to get an approx lens price. Even for £600 lenses you can still get a Leica SL + 2-3 nice legacy primes for the same price as X-Pro3 & £600 lens. (I'll cover cheap legacy lenses in another video - can adapt to Fuji too)

[@krolldavid]

I broadly agree with your assessment and it’s basically what has led me from Fuji to Leica. However, it probably depends on one’s priorities. If you want something small, portable for travel etc., nice looking, well made, easy, with nice results without much fuss and editing, Fuji makes a lot of sense. And I can understand the appeal. One thing that changed since I used Fuji are the prices. I bought an X100V several years ago new for half the price that they now go for. Same with an XPro3 I used to own.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks David! Ah yes I hear the X100 prices went up too.

[@XboxTheBeatboxer]

Great video! I looked at all the options and decided for 1800 USD to get a Sony A7C and to adapt Voigtlander M-mount glass (700 to 1000 USD each). I had already come from M43 system and wanted my next camera to be full frame. But there's still a few things about Leica that don't have me completely sold. Small, high quality M-mount glass does have me sold though. Especially at wider and longer focal lengths than the typical 28-50mm most are shepherded towards on the M systems.

[@XboxTheBeatboxer]

So for my 2500 budget, I got an A7C (1800 - new) and a 21mm f/3.5 (700 - new) = about 2500 USD. Then 50mm f/1.2 (~1000 - new). Vintage 135mm (~200 - used). Entire kit with all lenses and accessories (filters, adapters, etc.) = ~4000 Full frame, 14 stops dynamic range, M-mount glass all around. Compact, high quality.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks, yes I need to give Sony some love one day and do Sony vs Leica (using the same lenses).

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Nice!

[@tomislavmiletic_]

First of all, Fuji X-Pro3 might be a bad example. Course all of X-Pro camera series are EXPENSIVE. Don't know why. That X-T2 (which I have and will never sell) you have there for example can be picked up for less than €500 sometimes. And there are models that'll go for much less. That XF 35 mm f/1,4 R? Between €250 to 500 on ebay, used. So that setup you have on the table can be obtained for less than €1000. Can Fuji's lenses be expensive? Of course they can. Years back I paid €1000 for my XF 56mm f1,2R (amazing lens). These days you can buy it for less than €500. So I still have more that €1000 to spend, right? 😊 And please forgive me, I'm not an FF hater, nor a Leica hater, but a Canon FF heater. Which I have to use for my day work course my employer said so. Canon does not have any usable picture profiles, what makes their JPEG's worth sh**. And course I'm a reporter I usually don't have the time to mess with RAW's on my job. Hence film simulations and other Fuji's juices would be a blessing. Rotation waits for no one, you know the drill. Now put those things together and you'll get a pain in you know where. Moreover, Canon is not a M Leica. It's big and heavy, lenses especially. Different beasts, and there's room for everyone I guess...

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks and sorry for the overpriced Fuji lens quote. I'll correct this in a future video. +1 for there are plenty of cameras to suit everyone's taste.

[@jlwilliams]

0:20 - "This is not bashing Fuji and pro-Leica," says the man who titled the segment "OVERPRICED - FUJI X Cameras (Buy LEICA Instead!)"

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks James, it's more a basic observation. SL vs Xpro3 for the same price is nuts!

[@kovre]

Thanks for the video that I found very interesting but in Italy the Leica M (Typ 240) costs around 3,000 euro used and with that amount I can buy a Fujifilm GFX 50R with a medium format sensor, the M8 is not an option because it had terrible colours the black turned purple and the M9 to buy it you have to be very lucky because many had big problems with the sensor. Instead I use two Leica R lenses on Fuji A7 II bodies with good results although in my opinion Zeiss and Voightlander lenses are better. Thanks again for the video though because it helped me to clarify my ideas :-)

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks for sharing. Yes R lenses I nice. See my video on them but yes M glass is sharper for sure.

[@kiwipics]

@Matt Osborne ... I bought a Fuji XE-1 for £80 and a fuji 18mm f2 for £90 about 28months ago on Ebay, and both were unmarked with very little use. Cheap really, but the prices have rocketed. MPB are vastly overpriced and trade in values are terrible. I"ve been massively lucky on the Leica front, as I have recently won a Leica M6 Titanium body in a prize draw run by Leica Hunter Competitions, and it was like a dream come true. I already had a 7 Artisans 28mm f5.6 (M mount) for use on Lumix / Olympus M43 bodies. I've now bought a Voightlander Color Skopar 35mm f2.5 which will be my Leica learner lens for the first few month of M6 use. This video makes a perfectly valid argument for buying Leica over Fuji and the hype surrounding the X series.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks and congrats on M6 Ti! There are cheaper Fuji it seems but the X-Pro3 is overpriced.

[@carlseibert9015]

Hmmm. I had a very different experience. I had a pretty complete Leica film system and had in 2020 to choose between buying an M240 and maybe one modern(ish) Leica lens or starting a Fuji X-Pro system from ground up. Yes, there were things that appealed about each system. (The Fuji's finder I found - and still do- to be way superior to Leica's, for example. The OVF. IMHO, anybody who buys an X-Pro for the EVF has a screw loose.) Modern Leica lenses are just wonderful. You get the idea. End of the day a whole Fuji system - X-Pro3 and four lenses - set me back $3,600USD. The body and the (excellent) 50mm f/2 (75mm equivalent) were bought new. A 14mm (21mm), 23mm (35mm), both f2s, and an f/1.4 35mm(50mm) were used in excellent or near-mint condition. An M240 would have been just less than $,3000USD. A Voigtlander Ultron (and remember this was in 2020. Voigtlander didn't have as many attractive lenses as they do today) would have been $7,00USD. Leica Summarit would have been about $1,700USD each, used. Bottom line, the Fuji was a ton cheaper, even with the four lenses. Eventually, I did buy digital Leicas, a Typ 246 and an M10R. ($3700 and $5800, respectively) And of course, I just "had" to upgrade a couple of my old lenses. :-). I kept the Fuji gear and still use it when it offers an advantage. (If I need autofocus or a fast motor, or if I think the situation would pose too much risk to the 4 times more expensive system.) I also use the Fuji in SLR mode for close-up work because I have a Fuji 80mm Marco (120mm) that just renders absolutely beautifully (to my taste). The X-Pro isn't the greatest SLR, but it is a "real" SLR (as opposed to a Visoflex). When you put it in that mode it's up to the task. A flower isn't like shooting American football, for example. Now, in fairness, I don't shoot glamorous portraits. And I rarely strive for super thin depth of field. So full frame doesn't carry much weight at all for me. You live in a different world. I'll add for people who feel that the "real" rangefinder is somehow "better" at actually getting the image in focus that I feel about equally comfortable - and equally fast - focusing either camera in normal, non-auto-focus situations. If you use the Fuji "the Leica way", the experience is really similar. I'll claim enough ego to think that I can, after twenty years of Leica experience, focus a Leica better than the average bear. But no way is my ego big enough to think that I could go John-Henry-versus-the steam-drill against a decent autofocus system and meet any fate other than old John's. Yes, there is a certain amount of pride in being able to pull-before-looking-and-nudge-the-rest-of-the-way-until-the-patch-"pops". But pride doesn't make publishable pictures. Getting them in focus does. What I'm saying is that as much as I like using the rangefinder - either one - and I like the "magic" of it, at the end of the day one can shoot or one can't. A fancy camera, be it a Leica or a Z9 or whatever is wonderful. It does help. But it doesn't make pictures. We do.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks! Nice write up and agreed it’s the end user that counts

[@raz8911]

I got a Fuji XE-3 with the XF 18-55 lens, extra battery and a third party flash for 560€. It’s an entry level camera…. Like the M240 (relative to each brand’s respective catalogue). The X Pro3 is Fuji’s flagship “rangefinder”. It’s not a fair comparison

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks. That's more the Fuji prices I expect so good to hear there are bargains to be had. The M240 even as an old model ages well so what was a flagship is still a top performer against the likes of X-Pro3 etc. (Once the X-Pro3 arrives I can shoot both cameras side by side).

[@makmak69L7]

Thank you Matt for this interesting video. I shoot both Fuji and Leica, in addition to Canon and Nikon. After using all kind of cameras from APSC to Full Frame to Medium Format, and different camera brands. There is nothing match the experience of holding and shooting with a Leica M Camera. I totally understand the point of views of many who watched your video and disagreed with you, be it brand loyalty to Fuji or for any other reason. But I can tell honestly as a primary Canon Shooter + FujiFilm for many years (only last year I started to shoot also with Nikon Z9 and Zf, and Leica M11P and Q2 Monochrom) that once you shoot with Leica, it is so challenging and difficult to hold another camera. One last comments, FujiFilm cameras in general are overpriced, specially when taking into consideration that (talking about the X system) it is an APSC camera, and that the auto focus is lagging behind when compared with, Canon, Sony, and Nikon. Many consider it as trendy camera that is loved mostly by KZbinrs and social media geeks.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks and yes I didn't cover other brands but agree it must be easy to get a FF setup for less than the X-Pro3 price. Agree, once you've used Leica it's hard to unsee it. Only the X2D has ever come close for me.

[@kotwa]

Hi Matt, love your content in general. And love Basia on your photos, too, gorgeous model. To comment on the topic of the video: I'm user of both analog Leica, digital Fuji system, digital Sony system, in the past also digital Leica M, APS-C Canon, and also own a huuuuge collection of Russian rangefinders and entire analog Nikon lineup from 1959 to 1988. So, that's for the context. What I love about Fuji, and why I sold my M9 and basically all Leica-brand lenses, and never considered getting another digital Leica, is cost of ownership, autofocus, reliability, sensor, and even size-weight. * M9 and modern Leica lenses on a digital sensor with high precision were nothing but a problem. And newer Leica bodies available at the time, 240 and 262, were already famous for many bugs and issues, firmware, rf calibration issues, card sensitivity, shutters stuck in extreme weather etc. * The Leica lens QC was poor, some came misaligned from the factory, there were issues like loose aperture ring, falling of integrated lens hood, or crazy amount of dust inside within a year of purchase. Old Leica lenses? Poor coating, soft glass, poor lubricants. * The accessories for a digital Leica were ridiculously expensive (batteries, lens caps, eveready cases...). * Ultra slow (months, even a year) and expensive service in Leica Wetzlar. * I'm keeping only my film M2 with a range of 3rd party lenses... Voigtlander, Chinese, Russian. Many issues with the camera, but there are no reliable alternatives, but at least zero issues with these lenses. Before I sold M9 I already purchased my first Fujifilm: * Once I tried Fuji system, I was hooked. For one, I like the TransX sensor and in-camera JPG processing so much that it's the only system where I sometimes don't even develop RAW. * The autofocus isn't that bad, and is often quite useful, especially for snapshots. It's slower than Sony, but in my experience it's more precise. * Lenses used to be pretty small for being autofocus, and often with an aperture ring. * X-E series is smaller and lighter than Leica M bodies, with lenses being a bit bigger, so in the end it is pretty comparable size-wise. It's also considerably cheaper than X-Pro or X-T models that not everyone loves (I don't). * I was to able to buy most new lenses for like 2/3 of the list price, and you can also find nice deals for the used ones. * Accessories are abundant and cheap. Have many more batteries, travel fast charger, straps, 3rd party eveready case, thumb grip, larger release button... * Impeccable reliability, at least my X-E2, X-M1 and X-E3, and all my lenses. I do not use camera bags, throw it literally anywhere (I was not behaving like that with the Leica), the cameras look like being through a war, and zero issues... on X-E2 the back buttons need pressing harder, but that's it. Lenses the same, except for some tiny amount of dust inside, mostly in 18/2. And not just Fuji lenses, equally good experience with Viltrox 23/1.4, 33/1.4, TTa 27/2.8 AF, TTa 25/2, and 7a 12/2.8. * That said, I wouldn't recommend the system to anyone who wants to manual focus only/mostly. (Calibrated) rangefinder or matte screen with some focusing helper is way better for that. As for APS-C vs fullframe, you're wrong in what you say in the video, or at least it can be interpreted wrong. You can get the same DOF on APS-C like on FF, you just need faster lens by the factor of sensor size (same applies to the focal length). So, 35/1.4 on Fuji will get you almost precisely the same DOF as 50/2 on FF. If you used lens built with the same optical formula even the bokeh will be indistinguishable. Also, single given lens has the same DOF regardless whether it's used on APS-C or FF. It's only the "framing" (crop) that's different. Yes, you can't go to extreme with the APS-C as for achieving the same look like by 50mm f/0.95 (which is technically a little over f/1) you'd have to have 33mm f/0.65 lens. Or get wideangle with super shallow DOF, like 28/1.4. But most FF users use apertures around f/2 and smaller, and it's absolutely no issue achieving the same DOF with Fuji's series of f/1.4 APS-C lenses, such as 16/1.4 or 23/1.4. For portraits 56/1.2 give you the same as would 84/1.8 on FF. Then you have some 3rd party cheap manual 50 and 33 f/0.95 lenses, giving you image equal to that of 50/1.4 and 75/1.4 on FF, respectively. You can also adapt all the Leica mount lenses, and will get the same DOF as on FF Leica, only with crop (less FOV). It can even be a benefit of the system for someone who loves vintage lenses and longer focal lengths - all those cheap and abundant M-mount 50s have FOV equal to 75mm. 35s will be approx like 50mm on FF. And 24s, 25s and 28s will be around 36-42mm. So, unless you need the extremes, you can pretty much take the same portraits (same field of view, same depth of field) as you do with your Leicas. Or that I can get with my Sony FF bodies. Those were my very long 2c.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks! It’s interesting that the issues we see with the M11 seem to be common for all new Leica models going back to the M240 etc. For me waiting and not buying the latest avoids those teething problems but I get your other points. I always describe it as owning a classic car that sometimes breaks down vs a modern one. Some just prefer the old stuff and are ok with the ‘breakdowns’

[@kylejamesstevens5845]

Fuji makes wonderful cameras and lenses, if you prefer other brands then go for whatever camera you like. This premise is kinda silly and counterproductive. Best wishes,

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks Kyle. Sorry I just wanted to mention that you can buy a SL for the same money as a X-Pro3 which really shocked me.

[@bitemedea]

Leica M9M is my favorite of all… For aps-c, the Leica ‘T’ works for me. (Fuji ‘XE-1’ is a sexy one!)

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks! I still miss my M9 at times!

[@andychandler3992]

I shoot with both systems (well only the Leica M3 and M1-so only film). One thing I will note is that the whole "popflation" is in effect with Fuji. I got an xpro2 for $950usd back in December, it's $1300 now.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks Andy. Good choice on the Leica models!

[@andychandler3992]

@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom the M1 is one of those cameras you save if your house is on fire. I'm familiar with how rare it is.

[@shiharl]

If it’s a matter of sensor size, I’m sure people will easily skip over the Leica M or SL to get the GFX medium format. They are way cheaper in the used market and a quick look in flickr or If you see the work of someone like Phill Sharp, you can see what those sensors are capable of. I don’t own a Fuji camera, I have a Leica Q and a Nikon Z, but these were some weird reasons to pick Leica.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks! Yes I must try the GFX sometime. I hear the imagines can be nice. It was less about the sensor size and more the VF, build quality etc etc.

[@Deetroiter]

I’ve owned (still own the Leica) systems and I just couldn’t get on with Fuji. I liked the Xpro 3 but it’s the lenses that really disappointed me. I call Fuji the “paper mache” system. The lenses all just give photos that look flat and like someone cut out each object then pasted it flat on top of one another. The exception was the voigtlander lenses that are made for Fuji, those were solid and gave great depth and feeling. The other issue with Fuji is the photos are TOO sharp. There’s just no feeling to me and the pictures look like the sharpened option was turned up 100+. Endless to say, I got Got rid of the Fuji and went back to using my lowly Leica TL2 full time, couldn’t be happier with the object pop and true filmic rendering, not rendering that looks computerized.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Yes I really struggle with overly digital looking photos (and EVF screens!)

[@colinclark3218]

Hi Matt. An interesting video that seems to have stirred a few people up. Thanks for your thoughts and the time that you put into these videos. I use a Fuji X-H2s. I use it for everything from tabletop photography (when it is wet and miserable outside) to wildlife photography (generally with the 100mm - 400mm zoom). In between, there is portrait photography, macro photography, street photography, general travel photography and landscape photography. If it looks nice, I shoot it - and I have the Fuji lenses to cover all my needs. Using the 18mm f/1.4 lens, I jokingly tell myself that I have a Leica Q3 (although if I could afford to buy one, I would - as an every day carry-around camera). The thing is, that a Leica - say an M10 - would be impractical for my needs as a 77 year-old ardent hobbyist...and let's not even think about video.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks Colin, yes from my Fuji research I did spot the X-H2s. That Fuji would probably be my choice if I got one as it has the high res EVF that I'm used to. For wildlife it sounds the perfect setup with the additional reach vs. FF. (I shot birds in my early days when I had Nikon but moved to Leica soon stopped that (with the M cameras at the time).

[@colinclark3218]

@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom You can try mine out. All you have to do is get yourself over to the island of Koh Samui, Thailand. Think you can make it? I'll buy you a beer if you can.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

@@colinclark3218 ha thanks Colin! Maybe one day I’ll get there

[@Mamo878]

Please. Just the maintenance alone adjusting the rangefinder and doing a CLA every few years on a Leica makes them cost prohibitive for far too many people. With something like a Fujifilm or most any other 'normal' mirrorless camera they just work for years without doing ANYTHING to them.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks. Yes fair point about RF. I used to say the same until I found it's easy to calibrate them yourself. Q, CL, SL don't have that issue and just keep on going.

[@eoghanhennessy15]

The argument is flawed here, sorry, you can get a decent x camera with a lens for under £400… that doesn’t buy you even a Leica body. Not many people have £2500 budget…

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thank you, yes sorry I was only looking at the X-pro3. I explain more in tonight's vid.

[@eoghanhennessy15]

@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCommissed that context, will tune in tomorrow!

[@kalenderquantentunnel9411]

As you have been told already, your comparison seems a bit off on several accounts price not beeing the last. Used/new lenses from Voigtländer oder Fuji seeam to be on more or less exactly the same level, where I am lens vs. comparable lens. I have moved through many systems myself and really like Fuji for Digital and Leica for Film. I guess you have been mislead by the antiquated finder/screen of the X-T2 which have been improved a lot with the X-T3. The latter is as good as I could ask for whereas the X-T2 looks a bit like playing Donkey Kong on a gameboy. With respect to results: I replaced my Nikon D800E with Zeiss-Lenses for a X-T2 with Fuji-primes after some intensive testing. Besides the about 1 stop lowered dynamic range I could do the same even with landscapes with the APSc-Camera. For me there is not much in the bigger sensor when you compare APSc and FF, let's talk about medium format or larger but those two are just too close.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks! Yes sorry to overprice the Fuji lenses. I'm interested to see how the X-Pro3 user experience is soon. Yes the X-T2 finder is not great! (APS-C is better for many applications, I just like FF for my portraits).

[@dalvinderbasi3495]

Thank you for another fantastic video, really helpful video as are most of your videos. You have posted this video at a time I was literally going through a thought process thinking about exactly the same thing as your video was about today. So I was very pleased to see the video, very useful information for me. Just to let you know, I am not a professional photographer, I would not even consider myself a good amateur photographer. But I do have a bit of experience in photography, in various genres. I shoot film and digital, in the past digital medium format and medium format film, which I still do. By the way, sorry for the long comment, I am sure you have better things to do than read such long comments. I at one time could afford expensive photography equipment, but unfortunately today I am in no position to do so. At the moment I have a couple of digital cameras, Pentax K3 mark iii Monochrome, and I just bought an old Fujifilm XT1, something I used to have a decade ago. To get to the point, I have been looking for a street camera and at the same time I have been interested in buying some Voightlander lenses, I have just bought the Voightlander 21mm 3.5 mark ii version, I am pretty sure after watching one of your videos. Didn't buy Leica due to the expense. I am not fully satisfied with either the Pentax or the Fuji as a street camera, I won't bother explaining why here, but I have been on the search for a camera that has a good signal to noise ratio at even higher iso, I don't mind it being a low megapixel camera. At the moment I can't purchase a Leica camera, maybe in the future. But you solved the issue for me in the quest I was on, Panasonic Lumix S5 fits perfectly for what I am looking for. I had searched for Sony older cameras too, Fujifilm, but I realised I need a full frame sensor to see the benefit of voightlander or Leica lenses. I shall purchase a Panasonic Lumix S5, at the right price. And I have the 21mm to put on it now, slowly I could consider other voightlander or Leica lenses. In the future it will probably lead to me buying a Leica. I don't require great autofocus as quite often I am only shooting with manual lenses and I don't require any fancy technology either as I shoot in manual mode most of the time, for street in aperture priority. I don't even shoot jpegs, just raw, even on the Fujifilm cameras with their film simulations. Indoors I shoot with flash. In short a Leica camera would suit me very much, but maybe not at the moment due to finances. But I will purchase the Panasonic Lumix S5. Thank you so much for the tip. Please excuse my very long connection.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks. Yes I bought the S5 too when I couldn't afford the SL. They take nice photos!

[@dalvinderbasi3495]

@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Thank you for the reply. A quick question Matt, where is a good place to purchase an for the VOIGTLANDER 21MM F3.5 VM ASPH VINTAGE LINE COLOR-SKOPAR TYPE II lens for Lumix S5 camera, I am looking for the adapter that allows close focusing too

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

@@dalvinderbasi3495 get the LLL adapter. Link and discount code below this video, I love mine!

[@dalvinderbasi3495]

​@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Thank you Matt, really appreciated. I have ordered it. This is the one ordered, hopefully I have ordered the right one. Light Lens Lab M-L Mount Adapter with Close Focus Helicoid × 1 Brass / Chrome

[@moltonlava]

Comparing manual focus Leicas to Fuji X makes no sense to me, I can't imagine anyone is cross-shopping an X-series camera with an M (or anything else manual focus). Comparing with the Q or CL w/ autofocus lenses makes way more sense to me, and in many cases bargains can be had there in the used market. The CL w/ 18mm is amazing (and works a treat as a backup to an SL), but for less than half the price you can have an X-E4 w/ 18mm.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks! I guess I only hear from the smaller percentage of Fuji users that are using Leica and Voigtlander lenses so I thought it was more common place to not use AF glass on Fuji.

[@ryandewerff]

Maybe your market is different from mine but these prices seem a little off from my research. Fuji’s most expensive prime lens, the 56mm 1.2, goes for about £700-800 new, and the more reasonable 35mm f/2 goes for about £300. Maybe you’re thinking of zoom lenses, which can be upwards of £1000, but nobody deciding between Leica and Fuji would pick a zoom as their first lens. In fact, the Voigtlander 40mm 1.4 you have attached to the X-T2 in this very video, plus a good M to X adapter would still cost you less the £500 NEW so I have no clue where you got the £1000 figure from. The only M camera I could find for around £2000 is the Leica M8, which is also a crop sensor camera. Not to mention the M8’s (and other similarly priced digital Leica’s) age, which I’ll touch on later. The Leica Q Typ 116 can be found for about £2000, but a point-and-shoot is not a viable alternative to a full interchangeable lenses system like the Fuji. To me, cropping from 28mm to 50mm on a 24MP sensor (especially on JPEG) will result in image quality that’s frankly too poor for professional work. What you said about full frame vs APS-C when it comes to using FF lenses is kind of true, but means nothing to most people. If you shoot in a way that puts your subject in the center of the frame exclusively, then sure, I could see why you may like the imperfections of vintage lenses. If you don’t shoot that way, which most people don’t (including portrait photographers), the “benefits” of using more optically flawed lenses just isn’t there. In fact, it makes MORE sense to use vintage Leica, Canon, Voigtlander etc. lenses on Fuji for the bump in detail, and then editing photos in Lightroom to achieve that “dream look” in post. Not only that, but this point is completely moot on the cameras you recommended, since the M8 and CL are both crop sensors, the Q Typ 116 is a point and shoot, and the M9, M240, and M262 are all out of budget. Finally, Leica digital cameras have not and will not age as well as Leica film cameras. The electronics in older Leica cameras have been notoriously unreliable, the sensors in them aren’t as good as what’s in modern cameras that are far cheaper, they lack autofocus, their light meters aren’t as accurate, USB speeds are slow, the list goes on. There’re just too old to justify spending £2000 in 2024. A £1000 X-T4 and £500 Voigtlander 40mm 1.4 + adapter will wipe the floor with any digital Leica you can find for £2000, in almost every way. Leica’s are tools for hobbyists with deep pockets, they aren’t the professional go-to the way they were with the M3, M4 or M6. I say this as someone who adores all of Leica’s film cameras, including the M5, and especially the M6. For my own professional work, I shoot Sony, but have spent extensive time with the X-T4 and X-Pro3, they are both phenomenal cameras. If we’re comparing digital Fuji’s and Leica’s, Fuji is professional, practical, and cost effective choice here. If you have the money to burn, then simply get an M11. Are secondhand Fuji prices a little inflated right now? Yeah, but they’ll drop when the hype died down, and they’re still more affordable than Leica’s. Just my thoughts.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks Ryan and sorry I was off with the average lens prices. I was on the Fuji site. As for used Leica I just Googled it in the UK and got results for MPB etc. Yes I thought the 40mm is popular with Fuji guys too. Nice for people using film Ms + Fuji so can use across both systems. Yes I hear you for using APS-C to use softer older FF lenses. I sometimes do this with 4x5 and cropped film backs.

[@Ahmad7Zakki]

i think less than 10% people that want or already have Fuji consider Leica as option, most of them likely considering sony, Nikon, Canon, and Panasonic as option on this days. besides most people use camera in casual or semipro and don't want to edit every picture taken

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks, 100% agree ..but I feel this is because don’t know that you can get a Leica for the same price as many of these brands.

[@jensruckert4763]

Hi there. I don’t think this discussion makes to much sense when we compare those cameras talking about prizes on the market for used gear as there is a gap of about twelve years between (?). So many people can argue with technical advances and differences. Although I switched from Fuji x-pro cameras to Leica M (8/240) and never regretted that step I think one can be quite happy with Fuji cameras and adapted legacy lenses. For me - as I also use Nikon Z gear sometimes but analogue Nikon, Hasselblad, Leica Ms - it’s the haptics and the outcomes of the Leica sensors combined with Leica or Canon glass. Although the prices are rather high - and actually you should compare a M10, not a 240 I suppose - but they are produced in Germany, what is at least one reason for those prices, beside prestige or whatsoever. Always good light!

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks! +1 for older cameras still being great

[@prawnboysg9436]

Lol. I sold all my fuji collection [XT, XPro, E , X100] series for Leica, now owned a couple of Leica bodies. Later on, I also explore DSLR like the Pentax, Canon, Nikon and Olympus. Thinking right now.. i didn't regret one bit moving away from the Fuji. Honestly, the Fuji didn't connect with me at all, the feel is different, i even prefer old dslr over mirrorless cameras. No point to have the best and the latest tech camera, it doesnt make you a great photographer. oh... btw the only fuji i kept with me was the Fujifilm S5 Pro.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Nice! Yes agree to older cameras still being great too

[@prawnboysg9436]

@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom talking about the whole KZbin, you inspired me the most, your portraits are so damn nice. So many photographers talk so much but with mediocre result

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

@@prawnboysg9436 thank you. I’m Better at portraits than making videos!

[@rjbiii]

As a Fuji user, the prices for the rangefinder style models are insane. I was hoping to get one to go with my X-T5, but the prices are silly, if you can even find one.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks, yes I was surprised hence making this video.

[@jrahchile]

It's true that a full-frame sensor gives you less depth of field at the same aperture and that its photosites are larger than those of an APS-C sensor, but I don't think you can compare a sensor from the M-240 with one from the X-Pro3; there's too many years of technological difference. That being said, I don't understand why you believe that a full-frame sensor is better than an APS-C one just because it's bigger, considering that not everyone wants a reduced depth of field.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks! I don't mind comparing older Leica to more modern Fuji. See tonight's video out soon. I'm looking more at the user experience than pixel peeping. All modern cameras can take nice photos these days. Yes I try to explain in the video tonight that APS-C is great for street + anything where you need more depth. I shoot female portraits so FF suits my desired look better.

[@artur.charaev]

Hi Matt, quite controversial comparison, I might counterargue you in some aspects: - fuji price: yeah, it's overpriced sometimes, but XT3 or XPRO2 could give max value per $. Nothing even close in this price range around 800$ for used XT3: good EVF, 2 way tilt-screen and nice 24mp sensor. - lens price - last LM mothor lenses definitely overpriced, but on fuji you can adopt literally anything and cheap as dirt like soviet glass or there is number of relatively inexpensive old manual zeiss glass. - crop factor - yes with adapter there will be crop, but with speedboster you can almost fully remove crop factor and even keep AF like with viltrox EF-FX speedbooster and canon EF glass (never had a chance to try it, but I'm waiting for delivery of fringer adapter to try EF glass with gfx). The real problem of Fuji from my point of view: - compact high-res FF camera could give much more than any fuji gear: wish to have more reach - switch to crop mode, wish to have boceh - use fast glass, wish to stay compact - number of compact primes. So the build: - XT3 800$ - speedbooster ~100$ manual focusing and ~250$ with AF. But no need if use with native primes. - glass from 50$ for manual primes and from 400$ for canon EF 1.4 primes. And old native primes are around 300-400$ used. And in total fuji setup: from 950$ with manual lens setup (if we compare to used leica setup it's 3 times cheaper) and around 1500$ for AF lens setup with canon ef 1.4 primes something native with old versions of 35/1,4 or 23/1.4 will be around 1200$.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks! Good to hear there are affordable Fuji options. I saw the X-Pro3 price being above the SL and had to make a video following my poll.

[@artur.charaev]

@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I believe XPRO3 is the worst camera on whole Fuji X series and completely agree it highly hyped and overpriced. Behind the fact they remove d-pad from it, the main problem is screen construction makes it hobby camera only, it's very uncomfortable to flip it back and forth when you need to control results. But fuji hype train sells it as incredible film experience, limit its production and bloats prices. Where used XPRO2 priced around 600-800$ in my area and has much more versatile fixed screen, but image quality will be identical.

[@americosequeira8670]

Thank you for your video, it was very educational. I`m an hobbyist in photography that in my journey through photographic gear used Fuji cameras. I wasn't entirely pleased with the photos I took (You can say that was mainly because of my lack of talent... 🙂) and I found more satisfaction elsewhere... Which also makes think that film simulations are overrated... Besides that, the unfortunate confession of Fuji about their policy and goal in the sales department, makes me think that we are better if we buy "The real deal" and not an aspiring brand. And by the way... I do own a Leica camera so I can see the difference... Waiting for the next one!

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks for sharing. I started with Nikon DSLR and I too was not happy with the photos so I looked elsewhere.

[@1kwords]

This was done in a really disingenuous manner. Comparing the most expensive Fuji kit with the cheapest Leica... Of course it serves you purpose, but you should have strived for a fairer comparison.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks. I just compared the highest voted used Fuji vs used Leica following my poll

[@1kwords]

@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom That doesn't change anything. You can't just compare the best bike with the worst motorcycle and claim they're the same...

[@peterneale6278]

Hi Matt, with respect I like your work and I get much inspiration from your videos, but I think on this occasion you are a bit off (too high) with your Fujiflim estimated prices. My most expensive Fujifilm body is my X-H1 which I bought brand-new for AUD1,399 (GBP716) when they had the run-out sale. I bought my X-T2 second-hand for AUD659 (GBP337). With regard to Fujifilm lenses I bought a 35mm f2 for AUD400 (GBP205), a 50mm f2 for AUD450 (GBP230), and a 16mm f2.8 for USD284 (GBP223). I have no aspiration for a Leica rangefinder body; in my opinion the separate optical viewfinder is inferior due to the parallax factor, and the mechanical rangefinder is less accurate and harder to see than focus peaking through an EVF. The only Leica body I would love to have is the Q2 Monochrom. The cheapest one I can see on eBay at the moment is USD4,200, way beyond my budget.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

@@peterneale6278 thanks Peter. Sorry that I was off the mark for the lenses. The video followed my poll where the X-Pro3 was voted top. I checked the prices and saw they were above the SL and I had to make a video. It’s great to know there are plenty of cheaper offerings from Fuji too.

[@aleksandr8809]

Thanks for the video!😊

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks!

[@erichung9043]

I actually saw used prices for SL2 and SL2S drop quite substantially. Instead of going M11 for high megapixels, the SL2 might be the ticket. I have the ME240 already, I just couldn't justify the amount of money put into a M11.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks Eric, agreed the M11 and even M10-P are still so much vs M240, normal M10 but yes especially SL and SL2. I saw some great SL2 deals..I did look!

[@rexypoooo]

When I first picked up my M, I have a rather silly mental roadblock that I am taking an expensive camera out; but then I think for a second, my main camera out fit is twice as much! I also shopped for a X-Pro 2 when I was shopping for m M, and since it was completely out of stock during world chip shortage era, it would pit at the price as a M240. And after I tested one at B&H in person, I know I will not be happy with Fuji hybrid finder. I must say that it was then when I started watching your videos religiously and learned about vintage Leica lenses, which as you had mentioned in the video, is where the real joy happen with a massive library of old Leica and Canon LTM lenses as well as new Voigtlander and now chinese manufacture "retro" lenses to choose from, I cannot be happier to go with a M instead of a Fuji.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks Rex!

[@RobMatthews21]

I have owned 8 X series cameras. I picked up an M8 and a Nokton 35. It’s a fantastic combo and I love the M experience.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Welcome to Leica Rob! See my M8 video and any of the hundreds of M lens videos or look on MrLeica.com

[@RobMatthews21]

@ thanks Matt. I already watched your vid and it was instrumental in my purchase! I got it back in June and more and more it’s my primary choice. It takes me back to the please of my old film cameras. Much as the results are often superb I am thinking of an m10 so I can get a few more pixels and more stops of DR.

[@plasterpopulace]

There's clearly nothing wrong with shooting an m240 and the dynamic range is good, but how can you recommend it over a modern Fuji camera with superior dynamic range? Modern APS-C also has better low light performance than decade old FF. I'd much rather shoot Sony/Nikon/Canon FF or GFX medium format for not much more than Leica. It's cool if you enjoy your old Leica, but the idea that Leica is actually superior is absurd.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks and good points. I guess we all value cameras for different reasons. I value the user experience the most combined with image quality. I shoot film too so tend to shoot in normal ISO ranges (that are fine for older digital cameras). I value a good VF/EVF (similar to when I shoot film) so the mod cons of newer cameras don't really add anything extra for me. It would be nice to try a GFX someday as they should be good for portraits too. The X2D is the closest I've tried to Leica but sadly not B&W EVF preview mode. For mod cons - AF, high ISO, IBIS etc other brands are way ahead for the price point).

[@Rangefinder48]

Contrary to most of the comments here, I love this video. I agree with everything that Matt says. I’ve used many systems and Fuji is the one I used the least (I use Lumix the most). And it’s true, Fuji is overpriced, the channel “One Month Two Cameras” addressed it well too. If I need a crop sensor, I’ll just get a m4/3 for only a few hundred bucks. And I agree with Matt, imo Lumix is better than Fuji, for cheaper too. And honestly it doesn’t really matter how old the camera is, my Canon 5D Mark II is 16 years old and it still produces top images and you can still get one with a lens for $400 nowadays (another excellent alternative to Fuji).

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks ad yes +1 for MFT for people wanting small and affordable crop bodies

[@derrenleepoole]

Fujifilm have released so many body variants, some that share the same sensors, that you can find anything to suit literally any budget from small to large. Point in case, the XH1 I picked up last year for £400! This was a flagship body when released at over £2000! It’s basically an XT3 that now sell for around the £600 ish mark used. The X-Pro3 used is about £1200… pair that with some adapted vintage lenses or cheap chinese options and your still or under £1500. I think your pricing is quite off on this. Leica pricing is coming down though, the M8 around £1300, the M9 around £1500, the M240/262 about £2000… Like anything, patience rewards those that are prepared to hunt around for good deals. Are Fuji’s overpriced…. I don’t think so. They offer a lot of bang for buck with certain models and the pricing reflects this.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks Derren, It was seeing their X-Pro3 price being the same as the SL that triggered this video. Yes from my reading the X-T2 I have has the X-Pro2 same sensor. Yes patience definitely pays off when buying used!

[@ChristopherPerezPhotographer]

I realize you're talking about the XPro3... yet I see the X-T2 sitting next to you... so... MPB prices (30/07/2024) - X-T2 500Euro approx, or XPro1 550Euro approx, or XPro2 1000Euro approx, Voigtlander 23mm f/1.2 Nokton 640Euro approx. Choose a Fuji body and that wonderful Voigtlander 23mm, then add a cheap Chinese 50mm f/1.1 and you'd still come in way under the cost of a Leica body (no lens). To your points about Full Frame, image circle and using lenses with character - Sony A7 MPB 425Euro approx + adapter + just about any (new/old) lens you want, including Leica, if that floats your boat.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks Christopher, yes my loaned X-Pro3 hasn't arrived yet but I had the XT-2 with me on the trip. The video was triggered after seeing the X-Pro3 price being the same as the SL but at least there are cheaper options.

[@ChristopherPerezPhotographer]

@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom - I see you're supported by MPB and thought a little additional insight into current pricing might help. Keep exploring and searching and thinking about things. Photography should be above all a great creative experience.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

@@ChristopherPerezPhotographer thanks. I googled prices and MBP came up. That’s the only link but I do buy from them too.

[@Poverello2001]

Sorry, but you should have included the X100 cameras in your comparison, if you want a fixed lens camera. You can buy a used Fuji X100F for $1,000 from a reputable reseller, and it comes with a 180 day warranty. The cheapest Q camera from the same reseller sells for $2,600. Heck, a new X100VI retails for $1,600, but you’ll have to wait for 20 weeks to get it.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks! Yes this was more about the X-Pro3 when I saw the current price was the same as the Leica SL but yes for completeness including a X100 model would have helped.

[@sunny16portraits]

I have the feeling Fuji cameras are getting a leg up from people who are abandoning film because of high prices, you can justify their prices easier because it's still much cheaper than film! The Lumix is a good point, probably a nice full frame alternative to the XT series from Fuji, with the M240 etc being more like the X-pros and 100V, with the latter being quite nice imo if you could get it at a decent price though. I actually managed to persuade a colleague this week to look at Q2s instead of X100 or other Fujis, yes a bit more expensive but just has some specific features that you cannot get with the Fuji system!

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks Thomas and good point own potentially ex-film users moving to Fuji.

[@fourcornerseducation8828]

I have generally found your videos quite informative but I do worry when any assertion starts from a priori assumption. I have used many Leica cameras over the years but I have never found a need to want one - many people don't ever want a a Leica. I have had strap lugs fall of M6s (2 of them) an issue thatw as not uncommon and that leica fixed - but for a while in the pre social media days it was an issue. I have used CL and CLE - the minolta version was better. For almost 44 years I have mainly used Zeiss glass - both Rollei and Contax and to be honest when I compared results from leica galss Zeiss was always what i wanted. I even use a Rollei 3003 with the beautiful HFT glass - its actually my camera of choice. I have also used Pentax for the last 46 years and Pentax K glass comes the nearest I have found to Zeiss - the joint developmet of T and smc is obvious. In. the digital field I have never wanted to lug a canon or nikon tank so took a long time to decide what was the nearest to shooting Zeiss glass on a Contax SLR or G2 - Pen D, Lumix even the awful M8 and M9 and eventually settled on an X-Pro 2 - I have not seen the need to upgrade to a 3. I also since they were released shoot Bessa L, R and R2 with cosina voigtlander glass and until it was stolen a Zeiss Ikon ZM, which with biogon, planar and sonar was a much nicer experience than an M6. I have also dabbled into the word of L mount - I prefer the Lumix sony sensor to the Leica tower sensor - which does seem to be the Leica fan boy ground zero - but the sensor that gave me the nearest to a 139Q or an S2 or a G2 was a fuji with fuji glass. We don't all crave Leica - its a school boy logical fallacy of false of false equivalence. Sorry Matt but its a shame you made it...

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks and some great cameras mentioned. I've enjoyed and still have quite a few of those you mention (film ones). We all have our preferences and we all shoot differently so everyone will have their own favs. I use different cameras for different jobs and all sorts of brands for film - Hassy, Nikon etc.

[@fourcornerseducation8828]

@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom hi Matt thanks for the reply - like I said I have enjoyed much of your output - and please take this as not coming from a Fuji fan boy - If zeiss ever produces a digital G2 with a sensor that has the same gamut as the N digital even at 6mega pixels the Phillips sensor is better than anything Leica managed until the M10, then my fan boy would come out - and I I just showed that was just opinion- but I use fuji not because its a bit Leica like but because its a lot G2 like - so I was saddened when you started this video with an almost priori assumption that everyone wants a Leica - I personally have always found Leica massively wanting in all sorts of areas - except build quality (apart from early M6s) - its a little like fujichrome - not velvia but the stuff of the 80s I loved it much more than Kodachrome and prints from it on Cibachrome were very special - I have one packet of Cibachrome left but probably not enough chemicals for the full pack. So I respect your personal view about any camera but we are not all waiting to find a cheaper way to buy Leica - though I do now wish people would stop buying Rollei Zeiss lenses - it was the last bastion of affordable greatness. PS not sure if you have but try out a properly converted 45mm zeiss G on a leica - I love the 1.4 Zeiss Rollei Planar its better than the CY as its a proper Ultron ( yes confusing) but the 45mm is magical. But then again thats my opinion and I am a 58year old Zeiss fan boy ;)

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

@@fourcornerseducation8828 thanks. Did you see my 40mm f1.4 Biotar M lens video? If not it might be right up your street!

[@fourcornerseducation8828]

@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Hi Matt - yes a great Video. Not sure if you are aware but the Cine Biotar originally developed in 1927 by Merte was itself based very much on Tronniers 1925 Xenon - which was also available as a 1.5 5cm Cine Xenon but for 35mm cine film - the would have therefore thought the Leica Xenon was very much based on the Cine Xenon rather than the photo Xenon but with an additional element - have never tried a Leica Xenon but have a couple of f2 xenon in various mounts. I know there are lots of speculation on the interweb about Horrace Lees 1934 patent but Tronnier had designed the original Xenon 5 years earlier - whilst not as wide as the 1.5 Cine or the Leica Xenon - the early f2 Xenon draws beautifully - somewhere between a sonnar and a “real” planar - most planars are actually ultrons - so as with the 1.5 Biotar I would imagine the 1.5 Leica Xenon would draw beautifully. Which flickr group images seem to suggest.

[@LeeFreeman-1986]

Can buy a used X-Pro 2 (prefer it to the X-Pro 3 in many ways) and a used f2 prime or Voigtlander lens for just over £1000. Also, the notion of not being able to take a portrait that looks as good on ASP-C as one taken on Full frame - speaks only of the photographers ability. You would not tell the difference if I blindingly sent you examples from my Fuji x-pro 2 and Sony A7iv work.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks, I can get acceptable/nice CL portraits (APS-C) but once you see a good FF portrait you can't repeat it the same with APS-C. I still used APS-C for a few years and didn't notice but when I went back to FF I couldn't un-see it. (Good to hear the X-Pro2 are much cheaper).

[@mbartosek]

Current MPB prices put the M240 with a lens much closer to $3,400 USD. It's clearly more than a fuji system. A better comparison would be the Fuji GFX 50r or 50s, 50Sii - that is the same ballpark price and age as an M240.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks. Sorry I just used UK prices so I'm sure they vary. Yes GFX is more comparable for sure. Maybe I can get one in the future to test.

[@TheoDahlemPickups]

Sorry to say that one of my fav. bloggers missed on a few things here. Just to mention a few. First off, Fuji lenses, if you want to shoot AF, are top notch and plenty to get cheap on the used market. Since Fuji does not differ in Quality when it comes to kit or extra lenses, some excellent lenses are even dirt cheap new. What lenses can you use on a Fuji? Answer: Any lens on this planet, incl. Leica lenses. Which lenses can you use on an M Leica? Only range finder coupled lenses, while Leica lenses, even elder LTM lenses, still tend to be pricey. You mentioned third party lenses. Yes that applies to any brand as well. The X-Pro 3, I own one among other Fuji cameras, is a bit outdated and less obtainable since it is unclear wether or not there will be a successor at all. So people stick on them. However the avg. price will considerably drop to 30% or to half in some cases once a follow up arrives. The X Pro 2 is a fav. of quite a considerable amount of people and w. its' built quality and features quite comparabe at a much lower price. My fav. which i use most is the X-E4 as I mentioned on a previous comment. You can get it at around little less than 1K Euros on the used market. BTW. I bought mine at 1100 incl. the fantastic 27mm lens. Now, what's the deal w. all the beauty of the fuzzy flaws in the corners of a vintage lens on FF, when almost all bloggers rave about how nicely sharp lenses can perform even in the corners? Well, yes it can be interesting but there is plenty of vintage character seen of my vintage lenses even on a crop sensor. I also have two Sony FF cameras which I almost never use on my daily walks. FF is imo overrated, but yes I get the point of some though. I think, you picked a too expensive Fuji lens for your quotation. I got two Fuji X-E2 cameras which I bought for appx. 250 Euros. They are excellent super light cameras w. a beautiful X-trans 2 sensor. Put any lens on them and you're good to go for under 500 if you wish. Not trying to jump on others neck here. In fact I own two Leica cameras, just for the reason to try what I can get from them. Love my IIIG and my M8, which I like a lot. However the M8 is a heavy brick and a bit too heavy to carry around all day long. So, again, the Fujis win in my book at least for my way of shooting. An other important consideration where I think you missed, or let's say you mixed apples w. Oranges, is the fact that the vintage form factor definitely plays a role for many Fuji X-E users. Personally, except of the M series and the Barnack Leicas, the other Leicas are not appealing to me. Almost lesser than Sony cameras. All great cameras but more like a tool. Like always it all boils down to personal preference, but then, there are aspects that can't be denied. Oh, and one last thing,...Leica repair and maintenance, like RF calibration costs are insane.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks for your thoughts. Sorry if I quoted too high for average Fuji lenses. yes some tech channels love sharp modern lenses. I'm trying to make arty female portraits so they are of no interest to me. This video was triggered after I saw the X-Pro3 was the same price as the SL. I was really surprised hence the unplanned video.

[@TheoDahlemPickups]

@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom No worries. I think the personal usage wether it is on a pro level or on a more casual hobby level is an other important thing that should be mentioned in a review. From a pro standpoint size, design and even prize to some extend matters much less. Like you, I think having multiple lenses and cameras for different tasks is the way to go. I can only speak for myself as a hobbyist. So naturally your perspective can be a whole lot different than mine. So every reader can make up his own conclusions based on his status in the field. Keep on running bro

[@jasongold6751]

A good video but! It's way more complicated! Older Leica Digital may no longer have original battery available! Seen price of Leica Battery!? Buy a good Digital camera! Sensor problems, unavaialble for M8 (ASPC), M9 (corrosion), CL dicontinued! Digital Leica are not like Film Leicas! My M3 is 57 years old used mainly professionaly by me! No Digital of ANY make can equal that! Is ASPC so lousy? Nah! Make big prints from my toy compact gear with 3,5mP! Big meaning 20 x 30 Cm! I don't have a room large enough for wall sized prints! I done those in Film days! System! Pure nonsense! Nobody of any merit, really works at National Geographic! I used my 50mm alone for most of my career! Crop to 90mm frame! Travel light! Travel well. I'm 80!

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks Jason!

[@ZviadTsikolia]

IMHO Leica is overpriced. I switched from canon to fuji and became a fun of fuji cause of its advantage. As Leica M6 owner I tell you that in comparison to other brands for example Olympus Om-1 or even Kiev M4 rangefinder it has no advantage. Heavy with cheap shutter sound and over over priced.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks. The M6 certainly is but there are cheaper Leica film cameras. I love my Kievs but if I want something smaller and more refined I use Leica iii cameras. Both take great photos.

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

Thanks. The M6 certainly is but there are cheaper Leica film cameras. I love my Kievs but if I want something smaller and more refined I use Leica iii cameras. Both take great photos.

[@ZviadTsikolia]

@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Dear Matt, I respect Leica for sure, but other brands make a great job as well. In my casr I could not find any advantage of M6 in comparison to many other brands. I'm sure if I present photos made by Leica and other brands nobody recognize which is leica or olympus. Pixel pipping is another sciense and there is nothing.close to the art. I think you agree

[@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom]

@@ZviadTsikolia thanks. Yes definitely for film. It’s just a box for the lens. I use many film cameras with no issues, Nikon, Hassy, Mamiya etc.