Overwatch Officially Became Pay2Win

[@AngryKookie]

Funny thing you can achieve this on almost any keyboard using software like AHK, but you will get banned for it in any online game. But apparently when Razer builds this crap into their keyboards it's suddenly not cheating anymore but "innovation"

[@rondomane]

its almost as if corporations have no other modus operandi other than creating infinitely scaling profit my guy. maybe its time to start reading some fucking theory??

[@xmalin1]

I have ahk running behind my games, never got banned nor can they even detect it

[@spookyow]

To be fair you get banned for the recoginition of the use of scripts. Often times scripts can be masked and hard to identify by an AC on what they're actually doing. You're not getting banned for the input itself.

[@anthonygaytan620]

@@xmalin1anime profile pic being so shit at games he needs to cheat lol, who would’ve thought? Besides everyone😂💀

[@youtuberobbedmeofmyname]

You can't get banned for AHK that's fake news. I've used it on VAC games, Battleye games, PunkBuster games, and several kernel level anticheat games. It's not bannable. Even if you macro using it.

[@Skyrdr]

Saying Overwatch just became pay2win is disingenuous. This isn’t an Overwatch related issue it’s a keyboard issue.

[@your_favorite_stinker]

I don't think Sam makes his titles and thumbnails. I believe he has said that in a previous video, so take it up with his editor for the click bait

[@arshdeepdeo3722]

Need some loose clickbait lol

[@ziek3012]

Any game that has a non momentum based movement just became pay to win. So the click bait isn't wrong

[@Scxrpionz]

He posts overwatch content, obv he’s gonna make it abt overwatch when it’s the main fps he plays.

[@hooparainbowbraceypkmonand7862]

I mean it's not necessarily wrong but it's narrowing down the problem. This isn't just an overwatch problem, it's a general competitive fps problem.

[@Trenonicle]

A keyboard like this is considered HARD cheating on osu. Top 3 player got banned for something similar to this just 2 weeks ago.

[@Grimmmmy-boy]

On something like osu yeah I can definitely see that being considered cheating.

[@Trenonicle]

@@Grimmmmy-boyif you set it up right, it allows someone who is completely new to the game to achieve speeds better than the best players in the game - over 20 cps.

[@superhydros7160]

Cloutiful got banned for using DKS (dynamic key stroke). He had his left tapping key both activate and then deactivate on the upstroke of a keypress. This let him doubletap streams while getting much better acc than normally possible with doubletapping. The reason it was cheating is that it broke the "one input, one action" rule.

[@Trenonicle]

@@superhydros7160 while this keyboard is technically 2 inputs, it achieves the exact same result as the DKS with the same effort. Only difference is that you have to have one key held and tap the other.

[@noname-vw5qw]

What do you use a keybard for a osu? Dont you play with mouse or tablet?

[@Shatamx]

Even with this I’m still wood rank.

[@odram]

😂👍

[@Rxlapse-p5y]

LOL

[@zoroz-sj7iv]

we're getting out plastic 5 fam

[@jaylennash5058]

Bro, seeing how this looks from third person makes me think that you would get instantly banned because that shit just looks inhuman because it is

[@ducasse8473]

If you're playing pharah or junkrat you can just aim in the middle of stuff like this. And honestly 90% of overwatch players don't position well enough for them to abuse stuff like this very well anyway. Like a special keyboard isn't going to help a gold tracer time her flanks with her teammates nor will it tell that same gold tracer to dive from a high ground position either lol.

[@incomplet1396]

@ducasse8473 i feel like you underestimate how crazy this is in overwatch, a game with no inertia. This will be a determining factor between two players of the same skill level

[@RkH1st]

That is not true, it does not interfere with the game code or manipulate it in any way like a cheat does. It's not technically cheating and most keyboards will probably use this in time and then everyone will have the same thing = nullified.

[@bobmythic3220]

​@richharris3016 but it's not tho. It's only on that specific razor keyboard making it PAY2WIN. That's cheating

[@teamfishbowl1076]

@@bobmythic3220 pay2win is cheating?

[@Zhohan-]

This won't be regulated. Whole industry will adopt this. Sorry, Sam.

[@rizaadon]

It's unfortunate 😔

[@lndignation184]

@@rizaadon how?

[@happysuperhappy2091]

This isn't new, its been available in team fortress classic. A lot of people were already using it 2016 overwatch with ahk script.

[@Adventist1997]

​@@lndignation184 It forces every PC player to have console aim assist equivalent movement.

[@lndignation184]

@@Adventist1997 what? if i hold down the trigger the game will aim for me which is way worse. No offense but "movement" is not breaking games like aim assist does being able to move better which is essentially this keyboard has almost no impact on most games especially overwatch

[@samhamwich518]

Everyone who compares it to higher refresh rates or faster internet ignores that it’s not just inputting or outputting information faster, it’s *transforming* your inputs. A better analogy for higher refresh rates would be a keyboard with super low latency. It’s just transmitting your keypresses faster. That’s not what this is doing. It’s changing your key presses

[@StrongSpirit]

How is it changing your key presses?? You still must press the key yourself, but it allows the next key to take over if you had a press key previously. I see this as a win for keyboards, and really, I thought this is how all keyboards should work. If I press D but I still have A pressed for a few mseconds, I wouldn't move. I see this as a win for players who have stiff movements like arthritis. And overall better gameplay. THIS IS CHEATING please!!!

[@cheeseblast]

What the fuck are y'all on about? This isn't pro level play. The NFL uses standard equipment this is people in their house on a computer using a keyboard. Grow up you loon

[@rizaadon]

High refresh rate monitors are hardware, human error can still be a factor in that, *software* that augments your ability to play is where it becomes cheating.

[@MrHorseBalls]

transforming your inputs is nothing new, akin to mouse accel, which is implemented in the game too.

[@denjii9]

its not transforming your inputs at all, its just prioritizing the last input you yourself do

[@naejimba]

"Human error is what makes competition interesting." This is true; it's exactly why high pressure moments are tense and why it is so hype when someone clutches something out. I'm not against improving input devices, but if you remove the skill needed you remove mastery.... and mastery is needed in all competitive games.

[@naejimba]

@user-a593frta , well what he's talking about in the video isn't simply allowing for something to be input faster, it removes human error which is clearly removing skill. You could look at a hit box for fighting games; I don't think (for example) it's an issue for charge characters to be able to charge faster (developers can balance around this or have a few frames where it doesn't register). However, it also allows for "shortcuts" to doing certain moves that goes beyond that. A good example is a DP motion; on a hitbox you can plink forward, down, and then press up and a punch at the same time (thumb and index of right hand). It was called the "instant Dragon Punch." The reason this is a problem is the DP was designed as a more difficult motion and that it would take a certain amount of time for a human to input it. THAT'S when it becomes an issue is you lower the skill needed to pull it off, artificially lowering the skill floor and ceiling. I'm all for better and more responsive input devices, just not when it eliminates the possibility for human error.

[@Ball-zo4nw]

​@user-a593frtaless player input for faster movement isn't skill and doesn't raise the skill cap it just puts the skill floor value higher.

[@boom-jr8vi]

@@Ball-zo4nw It quite literally removes the need to time your unpresses and presses... HOW IS THIS OK?

[@Ball-zo4nw]

@@boom-jr8vi wrong guy? I don't think it's ok

[@boom-jr8vi]

@@Ball-zo4nw You know? I think it was the wrong guy my bad.

[@thawingkarma233]

People are acting as if this is the same as controllers with pedals. Yes the pedals give you more options to customize how you play the game and make it more comfortable, but it does not give you an advantage, especially considering how controller players that don’t have pedals can still customize their controls and inputs in games to work around some of the limitations on controller, but again, the pedals don’t give you an advantage, they just make it more comfortable to play the game and give you more customization options. These keyboards however, are outright cheats. There is a big difference.

[@MrBreakdownx]

Pedals definitely give you an advantage

[@Palkiria]

Can't agree more. If your physical inputs do not match the game's outputs, that's a cheat. A claw grip on a controller might give you more options when playing but it doesn't take away the skill needed to press the buttons correctly, rewriting your inputs literally fixes your inputs.

[@dacr8928]

I used to play a lot of apex on controller because I enjoyed the movement from using steam configs. Eventually The team decided that using the software of steam config overlays on controller was cheating. I'm still on the fence about it all, but I've already been on the marry go round discussion about software vs manual input. There was a time period where no one had headphones (surround sound level audio for clarification) to play, or they were still using HD tvs with high input lag. Innovations and new tech are what you would expect over a long time frame in any industry. There is no denying however, that anyone without that tech is at a disadvantage. Tough call from a developer stand point, Would be interested to see the sales figure on this Keyboard tho- I would expect it would look similar to the cornus zen when the community found out about it.

[@thawingkarma233]

@@dacr8928 Well, headphones are purely optional and they have to do with communication, not actually playing the game. A team that communicates have higher odds of winning a match but it’s not guaranteed. They have to rely on their skill. And HD TVs are performance issues. These types of “innovations” however, are just blatant cheats. Softwares that literally play for you.

[@xvcynical5701]

this isn't really comparable to the upmost, because you're legit reacting faster than someone with a normal keyboard, pedals only make pressing a button slightly faster. This allows you to perform movements that even someone with the same key binds at you can't perform

[@Real_MisterSir]

A script that alters one's inputs (doesn't optimize, but directly alter) is a cheat no matter how you look at it. Also, this code can be built into games directly (and some do), but it's an active game design decision whether the system is incorporated or not, and in most esports titles it is NOT incorporated because it overrides human input and thus limits a factor of human error, aka a skill avenue- and esports titles don't want to remove human skill through code scripts. So if the game doesn't natively use the script, but your keyboard forces it, that means you're actively adding a script that alters the core game code and how it's intended to be played, aka YOU ARE CHEATING.

[@Palkiria]

If your physical inputs do not match the game's outputs, that's a cheat. This thing better be banned in tournaments and the ryzer software discouraged from online games

[@libertyprime9307]

"Discouraged" doesn't sound like consequences, so... basically pointless.

[@12inchesSofT]

Cry harder😂🎉

[@rizaadon]

Wooting has already copied Razor, there's no way this can be regulated atp...

[@simiimi3674]

wooting rappy snappy came first

[@forthegod]

nah its easy to regulate.... razer feature SnapTap can be implemented into the game itself

[@brostyle1036]

Wooting started this

[@rizaadon]

​@@simiimi3674Wootings version *was different* as explained in the original video that Samito is reacting to.

[@rizaadon]

​@@brostyle103615:35 Wootings version was different, they only updated it to do the same thing AFTER Razor released their version.

[@P-39_Airacobra]

For those of you who say "this should be available to everybody." I want to say, it is. Any game can program this feature in if they wanted to. Games handle combined input in whatever way they deem appropriate. I would know, as I am a game programmer. But since most game programmers DONT program this into their games, this is essentially the hardware equivalent of modifying client code.

[@b23beatz]

I don't see an issue with it like are we going to say 240hz monitors give an unfair advantage for 60 Hz players? Or a trackball mouse is inferior to 1000 Hz gpro? Of course but that's part of technology evolving/ advancing im sure this will be standard in the future

[@KDKEVlN]

I think this is less bad then a Cronus or aim assist or that newish monitor covered by Linus that as machine learning graphics built into it. This is something not necessarily software based either, you could make a circuit board have this same behavior too. Because it's something that could be done without software (hardware). It's something that I think could be argued not cheating. It's also something that could be easily given to any player without cost. Not saying it's right but it's something that I would consider not that serious either. Way more cheating problems that need to be worked on then this. -Engineer

[@ArchSchizo]

They could easily make this built into the game, but I would rather they just make strafing less abrupt. There are a bunch of ways to do it. I honestly think OW is just cooked at this point, they won't make good meaningful changes to NUMBER BALANCE let alone base game mechanics. Dumb game only got into esports because there were no living competitors before or a year after. TF2, Paladins, Lawbreakers, Quake Champions AND Quake Live... Remember Battleborn? Blizzard over here winning by accident.

[@TurningTrix42]

@@b23beatz The problem with this keyboard is it's replacing something that takes player skill and overrides the players mistakes to make for a perfect input. Monitors don't replace a player's skill. The game can be played at higher resolution (it was designed to be able to play at higher refresh rates). Though I see how one might think of these things are comparable, but they seem different to me. If a mouse was to somehow know that you moved past your target and corrected it back to the target so that you would hit them (basically something like an aimbot) then that would be an issue. That's basically what this keyboard is doing. It's overriding your mistake to the most optimal input.

[@P-39_Airacobra]

@@KDKEVlN Yeah that's a reasonable take. I don't think it's as bad as Samito is making it out to be, but from a gameplay perspective it could certainly be annoying. But yeah, there's nothing we can really do about it, so the best thing to do would be for Overwatch to allow this software-wise, to put everyone on an even level.

[@ItsAbcow]

i remember getting banned from competitive minecraft tourneys because i used an auto clicker that i created through Logitech’s software with my G502. This is the same exact situation, a hardware company creating a software that intentionally skirts the line between legit and cheat in a way to get more money. i remember when gaming used to be about raw skill, not having money to blow.

[@Baileography]

This is 100% cheating. If I bought a turbo controller and used it against my friends in Mario Party to just demolish them in every button mashing minigame, that's just cheating. I didn't win by geing good at pressing buttons, I won by purchasing a controller that does it for me. That would be cheating and so is this.

[@blahblah49000]

Impressive: in the span of three sentences, you both make your assertion and prove it wrong. Now, take a deep breath and order the new state-of-the-art in keyboards, which every "gamer" will have in a couple of years.

[@hymnoffaith2942]

@@blahblah49000nah what they said made perfect sense

[@DogeCoinInvestor]

@@blahblah49000bro can’t read 😢

[@blahblah49000]

@@hymnoffaith2942 Explain how it makes sense, since these new keyboards do not, in fact, push any buttons on the user's behalf.

[@jebril]

It’s undetectable by any software on your computer outside of the model name saying what it is, the firmware code itself is not going to be shown on driver side so there’s no real detection method. Meaning it won’t go anywhere basically.

[@craignp007]

Competitive gaming is at its absolute worst it's ever been. Most Gamers don't care about legitimately getting good at games anymore when they can fake it with aim bots & wall hacks on pc. xim & cronus on consoles. And now this. I been a pretty hard core comp fps gamer since the halo 2 & 3 days. And yes there has always been some cheating. But it's by far the worst it's ever been. The Insta gratification generation of gamers happy to trade skill for ez win cheats has ruined so many games.

[@Savevade]

Yep playing competitive games just dont feel good anymore. Gone are the days of placing tape over your tv as a pseudo crosshair

[@xcelestialdemon8245]

There is no "getting good" with SBMM anymore lol.

[@Skyumi-Vk]

Ya and so many streamers getting caught with aimbots making other people think they can get away with it.

[@YazzPott]

Editor not doing you a favour saying this is an Overwatch problem, when its literally unrelated to any one game.

[@Valstrael]

This is like how hitbox exploded in popularity because it was exploiting fighting games that didn’t have SOCD😂

[@immrblury4169]

Lmaoo fr

[@-cactus.raven-]

That was my exact same reaction

[@iBlueClovr]

Do you think leverless should be banned in fgc?

[@legattacks]

and look how it isn't an issue anymore because games just changed how they accept inputs. not to mention CPT changing their ruleset. like there's tons of solutions, and people can still use the peripherals how they want

[@iBlueClovr]

@legattacks I don't like the idea of macros or software overrides though. If you can hit seperate keys really fast then you should be rewarded for it, but you shouldn't be able to hold down one key, have software override you'd Dual input so all you have to do is actually one input. That's pretty bogus to me

[@yellow4525]

Id never think FPS games would have SODC problems, this has been debated in the fighting game community for years with leverless controllers

[@itsbeeva]

If games gotta know which hardware we use to ban this… then we’re about to have a privacy nightmare on our hands😭

[@CrazyKevin22]

So a very invasive method that will likely not do a good enough job of banning people who use those keyboards and just cause more problems than it solves. EXACTLY like kernel-level anti cheat software!

[@ferretbop99]

Its already pretty bad. I think there should just be ban on producing this shit on a large scale

[@xythiera7255]

They can just tell razer to remove it you dont need to detect user using it just stop companys to do it

[@mryellow6918]

i hate to break it to you but almost every single game knows what hardware you have. and considing its software based you can just ban it.

[@Bob-wq5xe]

Samito is right 6:00. I initially disagreed because I thought it would push gaming to another level, but he's right. What's fun about playing video games is learning from your mistakes, improving on them, and having that element of human error and unpredictability. That's what makes video games fun. I will buy the keyboard, tho😂 Update: I just bought Razer Huntsman Mini V3, and it will arrive soon

[@HotMokha]

The osu! rules page has a pretty interesting ruling on what is considered to be cheating and what isn't when it comes to inputs, and I think it can apply universally to pretty much all competitive games: "Rebinding keys to K1 or K2 is allowed, as long as pressing a specific key performs a press on the bound game key, and releasing the same key performs a release on the bound game key. Binding a press to a release, or having one key perform more than one press/release pair is not allowed." The official reasoning was that having an input that releases another key while simultaneously pressing another key is no different from just using a script or macro to perform multiple inputs automatically (which is cheating by definition). Wooting's rapid trigger is considered okay because it only changes the actuations points for the key switches which means players still need to perform the same actions to achieve that same results. Razer's new feature is considered cheating because theoretically all you need to do in order to double the speed at which you can tap is just tap one key while holding down another (because it automatically performs inputs based on the inputs of another key).

[@earthspace3972]

Dear Samito Editor. We love Samito enough to just make the title 'New Keyboard Might Wreck FPS Games Integrity' this is too click baitey and it makes Samito look like a POS baiter. lolool

[@MofoMan2000]

If a XIM is cheating on console, then this is cheating on keyboard.

[@Raichu159]

i do think its cheating but this is a terrible example

[@carlospitteri3146]

​​@@SilenceAtMidnight sorry even if software is in the hardware it's still the software doing it for you, if it was a downloadable program that didn't come with a keyboard attached I bet you would consider it a cheat as well. This has nothing to do with better hardware

[@rizaadon]

​@@SilenceAtMidnightback buttons and hall effects are hardware, this is *SOFTWARE* that augments your inputs to give you an advantage that removes human error.

[@I_m_him]

This and Xims are totally different things. Xims allow you to switch to an entire other input and disguise it as a controller for potential aim assist. This is still a keyboard, just with input macros.

[@rizaadon]

@@SilenceAtMidnight does the software that adds the input to the back button remove the human error? No, it doesn't. What Razor and now Wooting has done removes the human error.

[@A280ce]

There is a new trend in gaming where companies make advanced mechanics easier to lower the skill floor and ceiling to appeal to casuals. Ruins the integrity of competitive games for profit😔

[@Alart28]

I agree with Samito. This is Cheating! Mechanical human error is Why we compete

[@GreenCatDragon]

samito, i have been afraid to talk about this because when i first this i could not believe it, I saw this strafing in ranked and immediately thought to myself "STRAFEBOT" and I couldn't exactly imagine how a bot could do this but a snap trigger keyboard makes more sense than a cheat that ppl bundle with wallhacks/aimbots

[@humblecanadian4206]

Couldnt ypu argue that this is the next innovation similar to when we swapped from ball mice to laser mice

[@biferose158]

No, that's the evolution of hardware to improve the clarity your actual input. Not hanging your input entirely for software perfect inputs. Two different concepts. To your analogy, it's closer to keeping your lazer mouse, but running an aimbot

[@Ballcheckbob]

We in The era were people just want the game to play for them but at the same time want to be validated like they have skill or like there parents are proud of them 😂

[@DESPAIR_714]

That new jiggle straifing tech might be the most insane movement input ive seen 😂

[@ncascini01]

I don't know if it bothers me or not, but I will say that if games wanted players to have access to this sort of input, they would implement an option for the game to read keyboard movement like this directly into the game. Like, in Overwatch, they could code it so 2 keys pressed at the same time will do this instead of just canceling each other out.

[@YUCON]

the features these keyboards have can absolutely not be replicated by game code. yes you can cancel out a previous input and prioritize the last pressed input, but things like changing the actuation point and have it be dynamic like the snappy tappy feature cannot be done by code simply because the switches of 'normal' mechanical keyboards cant do this. they are either on or off at a fixed point.

[@blahblah49000]

That is what they will do now. They haven't had to yet because such keyboards didn't exist yet. All this outrage over just a new generation of keyboard hardware. Pathetic.

[@Surreal530_]

Thanks, Sam. I'm glad this is just an OW issue. Huge relief!

[@somerandomdudeonline7182]

Yes it is cheats 😂 (edit: the software installed into the keyboard that lets you strafe better). This is like when my friends told me that a mouse that has a double clicker installed in it (edit 2: a side mouse botton with sofware connected to it that let you click twice for 1 click) isn't cheating and he wondered why he got banned from pvp on a decently sized server. Like dude. If you have software that gives you an advantage over other players that is cheating. The first part is hardware which is not cheats. Having a good PC is not cheats.

[@Kat-xp8zn]

Wow lets ban people who have better pcs with better hardware then! because they obviously have better fps and its a totally unfair advantage!!!

[@professorzoom6318]

@@Kat-xp8zn the entire point went above your head

[@GO-sz1nv]

Your friend is kind of an idiot lol

[@GO-sz1nv]

​@@Kat-xp8zncan you read?

[@Kat-xp8zn]

@@professorzoom6318 It went above yours. this is a keyboard, not a soft aim software, the fact you all think this is comparable is stupid. in fact, everyone who has a pc that only goes at 60fps could call anyone whose pc can run at 150+fps cheating as well because "its unfair", no. its not, go cry about it

[@eddieryan7246]

There is a big difference between peripherals that ALLOW you to play at your best and equipment that MAKE you play at your best (if not better). Having a better monitor doesnt make you aim better it allows you to. This keyboard MAKES you play better. Imagine i had a mouse that auto corrected my inputs to hit heads better "tHaTs AlSo HaRdWaRe"

[@Anonymity818]

It’s insane people are saying it’s not cheating. He literally states it’s the exact same thing as a SCRIPT people could download that was banned. But because it’s a feature of the keyboard it’s allowed. That argument is like saying you bought a secondhand PC with that same script pre-downloaded so you’re not cheating by using it. Just because it comes with the equipment doesn’t make it okay, and anyone arguing otherwise is just plain wrong.

[@blahblah49000]

In a couple of years, when every "gaming" keyboard has these features, and the billion-dollar game companies have spent 30 minutes updating their games accordingly, you will conveniently forget about this comment of outrage and certainty--and you will buy such a keyboard for yourself. "Luddite" doesn't even begin to describe how silly this is. Imagine, "Hey, you can't have a 240 hz monitor and a 300 fps video card! That's cheating! My hardware doesn't do that!"

[@Anonymity818]

@@blahblah49000 Joke’s on you bucko i play console. Unless i plan on zimming any time soon I dont need to purchase a cheat-y keyboard. That aside, as Sam pointed out it’s not the responsibility of the games’ creators to change the game to fit “innovations” like this. Being able to do something that takes hundreds of hours to master easily just because you bought a certain keyboard is not right. If someone who has run the numbers and done tests is comparing this to something that has a widespread ban on it that should be a red flag. The fact you advocate for this shows what kind of person you are. Put the aimbot down buddy and hit the aim trainers.

[@AruthaRBXL]

This actually has different implications. Scripts are usually made as autohotkey scripts, which have a lot of cheat-like functions (such as reading the displays pixels, moving the mouse, etc.) and due to them not being programs compiled, makes it so any of these things are hidden/protected under the autohotkey program. If the script was implemented by trusted companies then its less likely it'll be seen as malicious and the only effect might be seen in pro play if a certain setting is not allowed.

[@Anonymity818]

@@AruthaRBXL Forgive me I’m not the best with my words when it comes to talking about computers and stuff. You make a valid point but at the same time my point still, and Sam’s point, still stands. That setting is what was banned and this keyboard has a similar, if not the same, effect. That’s bad, no?

[@blahblah49000]

@@Anonymity818 I don't think I've earned the moniker "bucko," but thanks for your vote of confidence. Now, since you are a console player, I know that you have a very limited understanding of how hardware and software works, so it's not surprising that you would fail to comprehend this situation. It is, in fact, exactly the game developer's responsibility to make their game handle the variety of platforms and associated hardware on the market. That's why, if you look in the settings on a PC version of the game, you'll find a wide variety of options designed to accommodate them. Finally, to conclude that I am a user of aimbot hacks because I think that this keyboard is just another step in the evolution of PC gaming hardware is amusing, since you yourself play on a platform that has built-in aim assist (i.e. an aimbot). You're a fine example of why crossplay should never have been added to the game, because the presence of people such as yourself in matches with PC players greatly reduces the quality of our experience.

[@jacobbaartz7710]

I wouldnt call this anymore cheating, than one player having a monitor input lag. The software isnt performing beyond intent and application, its just better than the current standard of equipment. This *is* going to be a temporary pay-to-win, but i think this is better than ever holding technology back, for some primitive 'fairness'. Not cheating, yes p2w, yes technological growth. Thumbs up from me, id like to get one, but ive got other priorities atm.

[@kyubbikcat2281]

I am interested to see how players will react to the entire enemy team using this software in every game from now on.

[@blahblah49000]

The devs will implement actual limits to player movement, and then everyone will buy one of these new keyboards, and then we'll all forget that it wasn't always that way.

[@kyubbikcat2281]

@@blahblah49000 Hmmm. The perfect marketing plan.

[@adrenaline98]

I’m so glad Sam is showing Optimum videos. Apologies for the off topic post. I encourage everyone who plays Overwatch to check out his content, really informative and honest reviews. Additionally, he is an OW enthusiast, as well as other fps games. He has setups that test mouse accuracy, which settings to use, why high dpi in hardware and lower multiplier in game is actually more beneficial and accurate for fps gaming. Additionally he reviews hardware from keyboards, mouse to pc setups, monitors etc. Skip all the pc mag and other mouse review sites. This dude is in-depth and sets up testing HARDWARE, really thorough. Also has a video on OW settings explaining Nvidia reflex and why reduce buffering is obsolete. I’m too old to be a pro level gamer now but he’s improved my experience a ton.

[@simplyeyeronic1443]

Ah, SOCD cleaning... Basically this issue came up in fighting games. Its sad to learn about this because I bet that these kinds of keyboards wont be tournament legal (for some games at least) in fighting games if you cant turn off this feature. Basically, SOCD (simultaneous opposite cardinal directions) cleaning is software to determine what happens when you press opposite directions at the same time. The current standard is to have it be set to neutral. These keyboards seem to set it to the 2nd input (theres also maintaining the 1st input as an option though I didnt hear as much about that) which would make them illegal for certain events. Its important to note that this also comes to the software side of game dev. If a game had this kind of input to begin with, I and many people would probably have no issues with it being in the game. The problem lies in how it can override the original controls of a game and drastically change a games handling. Im kinda curious to see how speedrunning communities handle this as well.

[@flashscrublord]

Fighting games was my immediate thought, it reminded me of when street fighter devs made down + up output neutral. So guile couldn't have super fast flash kicks, but doing that created even more shortcuts for hitbox users.

[@GamewizDeluxe]

Reminds me of the old A+B hack or Left+Right in my old emulators...there's a reason it's banned in speedruns...

[@lawrence9713]

Blizzard wont do anything about it. Overwatch is fucked. Every hero will AD like a fucking hedgehog on crack

[@blahblah49000]

So they'll add actual movement limitations into the game, capping it in various ways. They should have done it a long time ago.

[@lawrence9713]

@@blahblah49000 than heroes like Tracer are dead and need a massiv rework

[@gracecalis5421]

Why tf is Blizzard getting heat for this? This should be on Wooting and Razer. This shit's literally scripting

[@DevinDTV]

ADing faster isn't good. Spamming short strafes isn't good dodge. This tech doesn't give any advantage.

[@blahblah49000]

@@lawrence9713 I don't think it would be a massive rework to limit how quickly a character can change direction. That could be implemented today in a Workshop mode. The game already has sophisticated input handling with its external process for that, when enabled.

[@Spraypainsos]

Even in a "perfect world" where everyone has this tech, it's going to ruin the fun of so many games with robotic movement.

[@LeatherNinja]

It's genuinely baffling how many shiiters think that this is good for gaming.

[@Ahmed-ku9yh]

This might not be good for gaming I agree with that, but saying it's cheating is what I disagree with If the argument is it minimize human error, then certain PC parts (like higher refresh rate) also minimize human error and ultimately improve performance

[@Ball-zo4nw]

​@@Ahmed-ku9yhif A+D=neutral according to the way the game processes inputs and the keyboard transforms A+D to = D then uts clearly transforming your input to something completely different.

[@Ball-zo4nw]

​@@Ahmed-ku9yhAlso, other hardware doesn't change anything, it just more accurately represents something that already exists regardless of it you have it or not. It is not the same as transforming your input.

[@Ahmed-ku9yh]

@@Ball-zo4nw I mean you have a point I'll give you that on your first reply. "other hardware doesn't change anything, it just more accurately represents something that already exists regardless of it you have it or not" but having it puts you an advantage, and not having it puts you on a disadvantage wouldn't you agree? you know how power creep works in games when they keep buffing every character through the years? this whole keyboard thing is kinda the same if that makes sense having better PC parts has always led to having better opportunity to preform better, this whole razer keyboard thing is just another addition to the "parts creep" if you will.

[@Ball-zo4nw]

@Ahmed-ku9yh it's bridging into other areas. Regular good hardware will have a bronze player still be bronze in every way but even a bronze player can have god teir movement with a few hours of practice and understanding sttafing with this keyboard. Why not add some mnk aim assist while we're at it? Don't forget that this isn't hardware. It is software in the hardware. My problem is that it's doing something for you when no other hardware can or will do that.

[@Alm8hoorOW]

Clickbait title. You don’t want to strafe quickly in OW especially against projectile heroes. The only advantage is that you can change strafe directions instantly at will, most adept players already pre-fire the AD direction change sequence (letting go of one key and pressing the other). The only people who’ll benefit greatly are those less dexterous like metal rank players. This feature should be added on an engine level to even the playing field instead of going on a wild goose chase after players using this keyboard feature.

[@quigge1337]

Its a commercial for this keyboard packed in a Samito Rant.

[@blahblah49000]

Seriously, Sam's probably already placed his order for one. And I don't blame him, because this is just a new generation of keyboards.

[@DevinDTV]

The "solution" to this "problem" (if you think it is one) is for games to add this as an option, so everyone can do it regardless of keyboard. But any decent player will notice it makes little difference. Keyboard inputs are not a limiting factor in dodge. You should already never be mistiming a dodge due to your keyboard.

[@hkodavid]

The problem is not with the keyboard. The problem is in the games. The movement is already unreal.

[@tswrangle1000]

The problem is most definitely with the keyboard, the movement is there because it's hard to do consistently

[@Lúci-o-ohs]

so games shouldn't have lots of movement because then you can't get movement scripts to exploit it. Very dumb argument

[@judethedude42]

If this is TRULY undetectable and doesn’t sway from the backlash, game developers can at least implement the feature into games themselves to remove the pay to win aspect, much like how Celeste devs gave macros to console players for speedrunning. Either way all this ultimately does is lower the skill ceiling especially in precise games like CS and removes an expressive mechanic from players who prided themselves in their movement.

[@bekomon]

The simple fact that Developers do not make games with a keyboard like that in mind, makes it a problem.

[@Valfheim]

Exactly. If you design something so exploitable, don't do a surprised pikachu when it actually gets exploited.

[@bekomon]

​@@Valfheim What do you mean "dont do a surprised pikachu"... Everything is exploitable, it doesn't mean exploits like this are fine.

[@blahblah49000]

@@bekomon This is not an exploit, it is a keyboard. It is up to the game to handle inputs by interpreting them according to designed limitations. As you said, they haven't applied said limits yet, because it wasn't a problem yet. So now they will apply them and then everyone will get one of these keyboards and we'll all move on to the next generation of gaming hardware.

[@youtuberobbedmeofmyname]

@@blahblah49000 How much is razor paying you? The keyboard is a hardware cheat. Instant movement is not "exploitable" it allows high skill ceiling play in movement shooters. The keyboard is a shortcut to learning a skill. It's like if some dude played basketball with stilts and dunked every time after a pass.

[@felipeferreira7996]

@@Valfheim Dawg every game is exploitable to this, this type of machine cleaning have been a huge controversy in fighting game for years. Sf6 literally banned it in their competitive scene because it can be detected.

[@sswampp]

This is moreso a consequence of how Overwatch handles movement with no regard to momentum. Pretty much everyone uses null movement binds in Team Fortress 2 and this is doing basically the same thing. It's not a huge issue in TF2 because you can't cancel out your existing momentum without decelerating a bit first.

[@ovalfps]

Turned on SOCD, first game on, first all chat message “that AD strafe is SCARY wtf” it’s insane

[@LacrimosaEX]

stop calling it cheating, super cringe, it's just a better implementation for handling inputs and any keyboard manufacturer could do it, wooting did it in a day

[@cal7447]

Btw, I've been watching OptimumTech (the tech creator who made the video that Samito reacts to) for years and I LOVE him for showcasing B-roll footage from Overwatch over the years, throughout all the ups and downs of the game. Also, his Tracer is absolutely cracked. Dave2D is another prominent tech creator who consistently shows OW as the default B roll source and you can tell they genuinely still play and enjoy the game.

[@yabito]

i don´t see much difference from a high reflesh rate monitor or an expensive video card, both to increase the FPS, or a internet provider with low latency. all those 3 allow the player see more and quicker than other players. 🤷‍♂

[@sosagoated-c6z]

Because you can have bad aim and movement on 400fps 10ms ping and you can have good aim and movement on 60fps 100ms ping, a PC and internet are always going to be the barrier for entry of online games and ping and fps are always going to be advantages. It isn't a problem with the hardware in these keyboards, its just firmware/software and it's something that has been doable with scripts forever and scripts/macros are usually considered cheats so software that does exactly what a script does should also be considered cheats. This isn't something as severe as wallhacks or aimbots but it gives a pretty marginal improvement in movement abilities with barely any room for error.

[@duel2803]

9:48 hitboxes don’t have software cleaning your inputs, they are just easier to use because of the nature of fighting games than sticks, being able to go from one direction to the other much faster but again that’s just the controller not cleaning inputs

[@Deucely]

Once upon a time there was a gamer called Schumacher, bro was really good at driving a car, but he wasn't as good as he'd like to be. There was this tech called launch control that would literally give you a perfect start of the race, which is the most important part of the race, so the bros at Ferrari hid the tech in the OS and allowed it to be always on even though it was banned leading to an amazing era of dominance. With the current state of anti-cheat, there is no two ways around it, this is going live, it'll once more remove skill from skillful players and put it in the hands of those wannabe gamers who likes to pretend they're good, therefore making these bros buy stuff, easy money baby. That's literally what eomm is, it's been a core part of Overwatch itself from the start, the game is made to make unsuspecting players better or worse than they are in order to generate engagement and therefore make them commit their $. the very definition of Pay2win. So what are we even on about here, lol. If anything, gamers at large should sue activision/riot/valve/etc into oblivion for these server side manipulations that yield unfair results on unsuspecting gamers. But hey, people enjoy the dopamine rush, the majority are cheeks at games so they are the ones benefitting from the system, good luck with convincing them they are living a lie. Yet another casualty of that DEI mentality. /rant

[@jacobbaartz7710]

I disagree, it still reads your inputs - your application of intent - it's just better at measuring it. Temporarily it will be a p2w stain on the market, but as other products follow suit players will just have a better product.

[@pepsonaaa1180]

fighting game players have been having this discussion for 10 years now 😭, im sorry but the pandora box has been opened its too late now

[@libertyprime9307]

FGs are moving the way of simple inputs. Like SF6 Modern controls, 2XKO etc.

[@YUSSUFXVI]

I feel like this is super interesting because I hadn’t made the correlation but it’s exactly the same, I feel like the difference tho is that fighting game players have kind of been forced to hold this L because the fgc has been struggling for players since the games are just perceived to be so much harder (fair enough) so when the Pandora’s box was opened over there to introduce something like Modern controls, the dichotomy of gatekeepers who downplay it and say just get good and also the desperation of the community for mainstream success of their favorite games, makes it very hard to criticize it over there, whereas in the fps world this seems like a blatant cash grab that benefits nobody but these keyboard companies and the sweats who support them which sucks. Also just because Modern controls is fair at a high level doesn’t mean it is at most other levels, and I would be very curious to see how many people quit the game due to being beginners or rusty classic players, going up against crayon munching modern players with perfect anti airs and day 1 level 3 combos in iron rank… yeah lol not a fun experience feeling like the game is being played for them when you’re still trying to figure out how to hit DP consistently or what your best confirm off of a light button is, and then this dude mashing hits u for a 50% combo Not saying there shouldn’t be Modern controls but I think they should be separated up until diamond in ranked at least cuz that’s when I started feeling like we were on the same level. Also, fighting game have so much more depth than just execution and execution has more depth that most fps, so all in all a guy on pad and a guy on hit box at the same level of skill are having a fair match, just look at menaRD

[@youtuberobbedmeofmyname]

Yup macros are absolutely not haram.

[@corbinallen4562]

Not really as the issue was fixed pretty fast with socd cleaner which made any 2 inputs in the opposite direction go into neutral. This is like having socd cleaner and removing it to get an advantage actually its exactly what there doing.

[@YUSSUFXVI]

@@corbinallen4562 truee i forgot about that cuz I don’t use hitbox but that’s a great point

[@RobWence]

Wooting the next day of this release, updated their software to include and enable this exact same feature on their entire product line of keyboards (all 10 yrs worth)

[@youtuberobbedmeofmyname]

This is anti consumer and anti competition honestly.

[@_ben_miller]

the worst thing is this is visually less obvious than wall hacking or aim botting, and could always look like just a "well-timed" thing. this will seriously impact shooting games with movement accuracy penalties.

[@quint2568]

Lmao my keyboard has been like this for years. Modified kailh switches that have a .7mm travel distance with a stronger spring. Its using the same tech that we use in fight sticks as well with scod to prevent being able to walk forward yet hold back to charge a sonic boom. I have a custom keyboard that uses seimitsus lm56s that has less travel than any keyboard on the market.

[@Reager]

Overwatch did nothing, Razer is becoming pay to win. Not OW

[@savescuttlecrab5227]

This feel really similar to what happened in Rust a few years ago when the A4Tech branded mice gave you the ability to better control recoil using internal software, so either this is gonna be banned from use (Rightfully so) or its gonna become a really big issue that will need to be addressed by players and devs.

[@panzer1613]

This just reminds me of null-canceling movement from Team Fortress 2. I don't mind it personally, and I don't have a razor keyboard (which means I can't do it). EDIT: Didn't realize that the vid brings this up. Guess that's what I get for commenting before finishing lol.

[@TouhouTrashcan]

The difference is null canceling movement in tf2 is a script anyone can run via console commands, there's no special keyboard that gives you a inherit leg up that someone else cannot possibly match via owning a keyboard like this

[@youtuberobbedmeofmyname]

ncm in TF2 is cancer aids and makes sniper and scout un-counterable at the highest level. it's a cheat and I would not like it to spread to other movement shooters.

[@dolanpls3330]

Samito is a glutton for punishment. Many criticisms for a game on its deathbed, but still playing it.

[@SamitoFPS]

Buddy commented without watching

[@dolanpls3330]

@SamitoFPS You criticize the game frequently. Do you still play it? Or have you stopped? Because if you have stopped while criticizing it, I'll walk it back.

[@SamitoFPS]

@@dolanpls3330did you watch the video yet

[@terrariku2010]

So it's just a better more responsive keyboard? I mean, yeah it technically will provide an advantage. But hardware advantage already exists in Overwatch and will continue to.

[@blahblah49000]

Finally, someone who gets it.

[@widecat1404]

Agree

[@TheRedRos]

The problem is that u can hold A and continuously press D to just completely ignore your A input, if it was just a faster keyboard, sure... But it's not.

[@BLTspace]

It's the opposite of responsive. Responsive inputs is why ppl need to practice movement in games. This is less responsive and literally ignores your mistakes.

[@incomplet1396]

Its not a hardware advantage, its input altering software. This was an update to a keyboard. The advantage you are talking about is faster performance. Thst amplifies your input, this CHANGES it, it fixes human error, like having a piano that plays itself

[@akkorokamui8319]

I think it depends on the game and the community. For instance notching a gamecube controller for SSBM is definitely "removing human error" but it's been allowed for many years. Just calling it cheating off the jump is kind of reactionary, and I don't see how a lawsuit is remotely feasible. I mean they used to sell gamesharks at stores. . . come on man.

[@Famitrack]

It’s a shame, because this tech would be really good for fighting game players. Would make using a keyboard as a “hit box” really fucking godd

[@flashscrublord]

Its very bad for fighting games, there's a reason why hitbox style controllers have SOCD restrictions. With this keyboard you'll be able block left and right instantly.

[@Famitrack]

@@flashscrublord can’t you already do that with most keyboards? I thought it was the games themselves that made sure keyboards can’t block in two directions? Not a gotcha, I’m really curious on how it works actually.

[@flashscrublord]

@@Famitrack you're exactly right, but in some fighting games it's not hard coded into the game. An example is mvc3 you were able to block both sides simultaneously when prototype hitbox controllers didn't use SOCD restrictions.

[@flashscrublord]

@@Famitrack it would need testing, but from what I see it's not pressing them simultaneously in terms of output and taking out human error so you could still block both sides in 1 frame or less

[@Rappsure]

I have a history of playing competitively both in ow and cs, when I first saw this, the alarms in my brain immediately went off. There's a reason why null binds in cs are hanned, this is why

[@Juan-sq9hb]

It doesn't matter if it's software, it's still not cheating, you can't stop innovation, sorry. This will get implemented in games sooner or later.

[@blahblah49000]

In no way is this cheating. It is the evolution of the genre. When the first optical mice came out, they were not cheating. When the first laser mice came out, they were not cheating. Sure, it gives some advantage to the people who have them, just like having 300 fps is better than 30 fps; hardware always matters up to a point. In a couple of years these new keyboard features will be commonplace, and then we'll all laugh at when people said it was cheating. Come on Sam, you're right about a lot of stuff, but this is silly.

[@matthewaturner]

it's not some new mechanical breakthrough in the keyboard doing this, its a option that comes with the keyboard's software. older keyboards have been able to do what they are doing with third party software, its not much different than a no recoil script.

[@blahblah49000]

@@matthewaturner It is implemented in the hardware, in the input device, so it is an advance in the hardware. (I didn't say "mechanical," which would be irrelevant, anyway.) It's up to the games to interpret the input coming in and apply limits according to the game's design. In a few months you'll be buying such a keyboard for yourself, like everyone else, and all the popular games will handle it accordingly, there will be articles in game development industry journals, and these comments of "cheating!" outrage will be ridiculed--or, they would, if everyone wouldn't have forgotten about them by then.

[@blahblah49000]

@@matthewaturner You apparently have failed to grasp the use of Hall-effect sensors in these new keyboards. It is actually an advance in the mechanical hardware (not that such sensors are new, but their use in keyboards appears to be).

[@liamnerdwob1919]

"It's not cheating, it's hardware." Allow me to introduce you to ximming. It's cheating.

[@Kat-xp8zn]

Ximming is putting a mnk to a console so it can be used with aim assist, dumbass take, at least make an effort next time lol

[@juicymuscprod9624]

With ximming ur adding something that isn't in the game already like aim assist on pc. Pressing keys fast is a thing already, you just have a keyboard that's faster with it.

[@cadengordon188]

Hate to tell you this, bud, but all xim does is map keyboard and mouse inputs and attach them to controller inputs while tricking the game into thinking you are using a controller. That's software on a usb, not hardware

[@blahblah49000]

Allow me to introduce you to the concept of a hardware device pretending to be a different hardware device on a platform which isn't intended to be used with such devices. Ponder that until you can comprehend the difference. Or don't, and keep whining about "cheating" until you buy this new generation of keyboard for yourself, like every other "gamer" will have in 6 months.

[@liamnerdwob1919]

@@juicymuscprod9624 Sorry for the rant, I got carried away. just like a xim, you can ADD a keyboard that doesn't have cheats in it to your setup. Also it's not faster keys, the key unpresses itself for you. In the competitive Melee scene (I swear the comparison makes sense) they ban different controllers in tournaments all the time based on the fact that the new controller can do things FOR the player. You aren't allowed to use a controller with a turbo button because you aren't actually mashing the button, and with this keyboard you aren't actually lifting your finger off the A key while AD strafe spamming. You aren't doing the input that the game is taking, so it is a cheat.

[@PikaPiPika]

Bro, Sam's chat during this video 🤣 "But, it's hardware." was said like ten thousand times.

[@drockplayz]

That keyboard is the equivalent using a XIM on controller

[@Kat-xp8zn]

This keyboard doesnt aim for you lol, dont compare it with hard aim assist

[@Roch-kl5ge]

@@Kat-xp8znit strafes for you, xims do they same thing of making the mechanics easier

[@Kat-xp8zn]

@@Roch-kl5ge it doesnt, moron. you stil have to press the keys, the hell is this argument? xim is actual aim bot, there is no comparison

[@widecat1404]

​@@Roch-kl5gehow does it strafe for you, you are pressing the movement keys and you are moving in the direction of the keys you are pressing.

[@Roch-kl5ge]

@@widecat1404 it releases the keys for you so yes, it does strafe for you because it’s giving the game inputs you didn’t do. If this was something that is allowed in the games the devs wouldn’t code it so holding a and d at the same time stops your movement this literally alters how you strafe

[@zelirious4504]

The whole industry should just have this. This isn't cheating it's just getting rid of flaw. I dont care if the player doesn't have error on its movement. This could be made without software. Cry

[@SionicK]

Seeing people defend this saying its not cheating actually get on my nerves

[@AegisEdge]

idrc at this point. Competitive is going downhill anyway

[@blahblah49000]

That's your brain telling you that something is wrong with your reasoning. You feel bothered because you are wrong but you haven't yet figured out why. So take a deep breath, engage your brain, and reason it out. Or keep whining about "cheating" until you get one of these keyboards for yourself, like everyone else will have in 6 months.

[@youtuberobbedmeofmyname]

@@blahblah49000 Hop off this d bro its cheating and it's not even close. Demonstrable. Proven. It's cheating. Debate over before it began.

[@SionicK]

@@blahblah49000 funny how your nickname is "blahblah" and all you did right now is talking nonsense

[@theepicqronictraxxgary7982]

Feels good to play with, tbh hall effect keyboards already have major advantages over mechanical

[@m3rcher]

Wooting heard the call and made a couple of "for gamer" comments and made the cheat run on their keyboards, too. They even said it was "unfortunate" but what gamers demand and they just love the gamers. Honest money, brother. Waiting for the Mouse that runs an aimbot. It's the mouse, dude. Windows trusts input devices, so do I. With todays technology you could surely make a mouse or keyboard that runs an AI trained on gameplay.

[@BlankTFS]

Fully disagree. This is a hardware limitation not a human limitation. It's like pianos only being able to have one key active at once. Keyboard switches have been a hardware limitation for a long time. You're essentially at the mercy to the switch activation and knowing the switches distance to activate or to not activate. I'm for the innovation however only if this can be applied to any keyboard and from what I can tell you can unlike what it says in this video.

[@123Suffering456]

Yeah, I think if it was applied to everyone, it would be fine. Same way everyone on console is fine with aim assist because everyone can use it. If everyone is OP, no one is OP. From what I understand, they could just change the way the game handles inputs directly, without the need for such a keyboard. If that was applied, everyone would have this advantage which means we'd have an even playing field again.

[@blahblah49000]

@@123Suffering456 There is no such thing as an even playing field in online gaming anyway. Some players have 30 fps with an old ball mouse on a washed-out 720p monitor, some have 600 fps on a 240 hz monitor with one of these keyboards and the latest laser gaming mouse with 5000 hz refresh rate. This is just another evolution in hardware, and the people whining "cheating" are fools who are ignorant of history as recent as yesterday.

[@najeebc5496]

Any keyboard can have it. The script has been available for years but when anti cheats see it, the player gets banned. This is absolutely cheating since the razer program is where this is enabled and it doesn't just minimize movement delay, it transforms the input to remove the delay in the output. And since this is a peripheral driver, it probably goes past a lot of anti cheats. This is not input optimization, this is output transformation. A script is changing your sloppy human inputs to give perfect robot movement and if you want this benefit and don't have this keyboard with the driver, you will get banned.

[@BlankTFS]

@@najeebc5496 We know what it does and you explaining it a second time doesn't make it cheating or change my original statement. Saying this gives you "Perfect robot movement" is a very disingenuous statement. Arguing for worse hardware limitations because that's your idea of "Skill" is hilarious. If you were shit before you will be shit on the new driver/script.

[@TheRedRos]

The problem imo is that u can just hold A and then tap D over and over again. If u press C on Piano and then u press A. Both notes still play.

[@Foos3yOW]

So if a person has a better computer than someone else, they have a gameplay advantage. Does that mean it’s cheating?

[@Vror_TF]

Having a better computer doesn't automatically make it do inputs for you

[@AffectiousUwU]

If it became a norm its be fine with me tbh

[@otterpoppin]

but it probably won't, so the people who have access to these keyboards/this software would have a HUGE advantage. a lot of people can't afford high end gaming products, dude

[@AffectiousUwU]

@@otterpoppin dude idk if you know this but when things get made more its gets added to every product like idk most tv’s are 4k and not 16k to buy there is cheaper options its called evolution no different than a ps1 to a ps5 things get better and more readable

[@Kat-xp8zn]

@@otterpoppin so what? people who can afford said high end gaming products are cheating now? wow lol

[@noname-vw5qw]

This isnt really a razor problem , its an overwatch problem. This type of movement is apperently not an issue in Valorant and i know for a fact this was never a problem in TF2. Razor just made a really good keyboard that exposed Overwatches flawed movement. Giving player the ability to change direction instantly was a mistake it leads to floaty and shallow movement. The issue with this isnt that its pay2win. Its that characters in an fps game just should not be moving like this.

[@cavemanchonny]

I'd agree with you, but overwatch isn't just your standard shooter. it's very heavily movement based and not exactly going for realism, I think ow would just feel clunky with strafe deceleration. imagine playing with it on lucio

[@noname-vw5qw]

​@@cavemanchonnythats not really true TF2 isnt a realistic shooter and has this type of weighty movement. And still feels perfectly fuild

[@rizaadon]

High refresh rate monitors are hardware, human error can still be a factor in that, software that augments your ability to play is where it becomes cheating.

[@Kat-xp8zn]

Give this to a gold player, moving faster doesnt mean they will move smartly, the same thing happens with fps, you having more is not gonna make you have a better reaction time out of nowhere, you still need to have brains and skill lol

[@rizaadon]

@@Kat-xp8zn it removes an entire skill-set that was previously expressed through correctly timing your inputs. It won't make a gold player GM but if they already knew about strafing it will still make them considerably better at it compared to before. And again, this is a software not hardware.

[@probablytree6339]

@@rizaadonit would make a difference maybe by like 7% at most 😭 jiggle strafing like this in overwatch is kind of bad movement especially with how hit boxes are. In overwatch if you are moving left and right extremely fast you are really doing nothing if I am amazing at you and holding my crosshairs in one spot. Also strafing in the first place was never a hard input to do . Sure this will make it “easier” but it will really not affect that much

[@Kat-xp8zn]

@@rizaadon What skill set? ad ad spamming? you aware that in this game in particular since sam decided to make this an ow problem only, in season 9 hitboxes and projectiles were increased so ad ad strafing can actually get you killed faster? in fact you do this with certain chars not all of them because in the end its a very predictable trayectory alright, this argument doesnt hold any water, people implying your average joe in gold is gonna suddenly be owning everyone because his keyboard has less input delay is a very pretencions and stupid one lol

[@123Suffering456]

@@Kat-xp8zn Nobody is saying it's going to make any random gold player a God at the game. It's just giving people an advantage, the same way you can also use aimbot and there are absolutely people who are stuck in plat with aimbot because while it does help them, it only helps them so much. Doesn't mean it isn't a problem. Just because something isn't game-breaking levels of bad, that doesn't mean it isn't a problem worth discussing. I don't think it will be as bad in OW as in other games, for the reasons mentioned regarding strafing in OW, so I'm not too worried. But if I was playing CS, man, I would be kind of pissed right now.

[@TheChrisLouis]

Rare console W.

[@waferbarr]

You know whats crazy? Anyone can use software to get this on any keyboard.

[@corbinallen4562]

Btw for anyone interested, there is a open source option that works for every keyboard. Idk if its bannable, so use at your own risk.

[@deamonangel6]

I honestly don’t know what to say about this. I don’t necessarily say it’s cheating too the extinct being shown/ told but I can also see it as pretty annoying to go up against. The thing is soooo many things that have been considered cheating, has become a standard in most games. Aim assist and magnetism could be considered cheating cause the game is saying you hit that shot when you actually didn’t, but that’s standard in damm near any game. A controller with mouse click buttons and paddles could be considered cheating cause it’s allowing you to respond faster and have faster inputs, but those controllers are now normal that people want. You living close to a server could be considered cheating cause your ping and actual connection will always better then anyone else which leads to your response to whatever happens in game always being faster. Tooo many things we consider normal can be considered cheating to some extent or was considered cheating in the past but has became normal and implemented into gaming as a standard . If this has been around for sometime, then just means that people weren’t really paying attention to it but now that’s on a piece of hardware, everybody has a problem with it. Is this cheating? Or is it another thing that will slowly be implemented and turned into a standard feature, and we all don’t even think about it anymore? Time will tell us the answer to this.

[@mattgeffery8577]

Devs can just put in a slight input delay in the code if it is faster than the slowest input. this is just like a player with 50ms lower ping against a player with the ping. calling it cheating, while not wrong, is throwing rocks in a glass house because that is already in literally every game

[@happysuperhappy2091]

playing on a 480hz monitor compared to a 144hz monitor is more of an advantage than razer adding a script thats always been available into their keyboard

[@Dizzifying1]

Are you advocating for scripts to be used openly in competitive FPS games? Surely not, right?

[@LeatherNinja]

Yeah, because modifying your inputs using software and decreasing delay using hardware is the exact same thing.

[@happysuperhappy2091]

@@Dizzifying1 devs could just implement this ingame by default and then make changes to the model animations or add ground friction to not make it as bad. You're acting like this is something that is black and white and it isn't. Your trying to say "SCRIPT = BAD" the engine is running scripts as you play. I was using hanzo single click to draw arrow and click to fire before they decided to add it to the game.

[@happysuperhappy2091]

@@LeatherNinja having a low latency setup compared to running the game at low frames on a shitty monitor makes 1000x more difference than than null cancelling movement. People are just making a big deal out of it because they don't know how to use their brains properly and this drama is probably set up by razer themselves to sell more keyboards. You are just too stupid to realize it.

[@Dizzifying1]

@@happysuperhappy2091 There's a difference between the engine running scripts from their proprietary software and the user running outside scripts which affect gameplay from ancillary software/firmware. Can you explain how this is any different mechanically than macros? Because it isn't. If game's are designed around this 'technology', then that's fine... it wouldn't be an issue. But they aren't designed around it, and so its outside the bounds of legal play.

[@ghoulbuster1]

I want to see how exactly companies could sue something like this. You have to enable it in the software, it's not on by default and Razer could use that as a counter-argument. How can they win a lawsuit?

[@libertyprime9307]

A judge probably wouldn't even take the case. Razer is simply making software, not breaking a law. This is ultimately on Blizz to find a solution. They could definitely fix it in a few different ways if they want to.

[@florentwinleaf3462]

All I'm saying is this helps my carpal tunnel IMMENSELY So 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@raccoon_boi5741]

Thats what these keyboards should be used for it to help people who have disabilites in their hands etc

[@LeatherNinja]

But it also enhances the people who are completely fine against you too so have fun with that

[@raccoon_boi5741]

@LeatherNinja again that's what I hate , cause I have problems with my hand would love this , that's what it should marketed for

[@LeatherNinja]

@@raccoon_boi5741 I agree

[@widecat1404]

Calling this cheating or like aim assist for movement is cringe and beyond a stretch. You are pressing a key and you are moving in the direction of the key you have pressed, and thats it - it doesn't move for you, it doesn't alter your inputs to move you away from your enemies line of sight, you are just moving with your key presses, but more responsively. Should people complain that their enemies are using modern electric keyboards when they're using a crap mechanical one? Should people complain that their enemies are using 240hz monitors when they're using a CRT screen?

[@Vror_TF]

The part that releases the key instantly when you stop pressing makes sense The part that it takes less force to press the key is makes sense These 2 are indeed just improved hardware However! The part where the keyboard releases the key when you press the one in the opposite direction WITHOUT You ACTUALLY and PHYSICALLY RELEASING the key, THAT'S the cheating part because that's not you doing it

[@unknownegg6164]

It is transforming your input though

[@uriahthegreat5004]

I don't care if the entire world is cheating I ain't fucking cheating.

[@CROSSFADE69]

Lucio mains going to eat well with this one.

[@jragon355]

Hot take but I think this is just a technological advance rather than any cheating. It would be cheating if it gave humans supernatural ability. This just allows for instant response.

[@jragon355]

The software vs mechanical input argument is tough to go with because the mechanical input lag is hardware based, not human based.

[@mikedaniels203]

Im a simple man. I see a new samito baitclick title. I have to click it just to curse the gods that i was baited once more again.

[@duel2803]

I want anybody using this keyboard unironically to know your bad at every game you play

[@libertyprime9307]

1) that is not ironic at all. So you don't need to say unironically. 2) some good players use it. Like Gale, top 20.

[@duel2803]

@@libertyprime9307ofc its a soilder player

[@GrungeTrash]

Drinking game idea: Take a drink everytime Sam says "Human Error" and see how long you make it through the video! Jokes aside, 100% agree with you on this Samito

[@BTRshow]

I mean, isnt M&K (mouse n key) suppose to only go eachother? In that sense, for normal M&K users on PC, is this cheating? Against controller, any M&K is cheating.

[@BTRshow]

I'm genuinely curious as a ps5 user

[@heartgoldkarma6494]

I’m pretty sure it’s cheating. But mainly I think this is kinda more so pay to win

[@halinaqi2194]

I played console most my life, aim assist is a necessary evil to make console shooters enjoyable to the vast majority of casual players so they can hit shots, but in OW it isn't as powerful as samito makes it out to be. A MnK is better than aim assist controller any day of the week, which is fine, the problem is people who xim who use Mnk and have access to aim assist. If samito wants no aim assist for controller players on pc quick play, that's a bit much, for comp its understandable but even then, mnk is superior. Aim assist on console isnt cheating because everyone has access to it, its not a perfect aim bot for the player, hence a lot of room for human error. In addition strafing in console is harder because you have movement acceleration with sticks. So people usually seem like they have better aim than pc cuz strafing is harder. This combo with aim assist makes ximming really oppressive.

[@Ryan-gk1bd]

Depends on the game, in ow I believe crossplay isn't enabled in ranked. Games like apex legends allows crossplay and controller is considered the stronger control scheme there due to high aim assist values.

[@halinaqi2194]

@@Ryan-gk1bd yeah, thats the case for apex, but OW aim assist doesn't move your reticle to enemies or affects your spread, it just slows down your reticle when you aim over someone, or stick onto that target a little bit.

[@_EXP626_]

I’m happy to be a console peasant.

[@usucculentcow2988]

This is how fps gaming has always been. If you can shell out the money, you'll always have an advantage over others who dont

[@Cruxis_Angel]

Pc fps gaming* This makes me miss the halo1-3 competitive scene where everyone was on an even playing field. Nowadays it’s best to just play shooters for fun. Competitive integrity has been gone for a while and you gotta go to fighting games for that. Even then they have cheating issues too just to a lesser extent

[@Roch-kl5ge]

It’s different when owning the software means you don’t need to do the same inputs as someone who doesn’t, having lower latency is not the same at all