Figuring out the Fallout Show’s Timeline and Lore

[@NartOfficial371]

We won’t go quietly, the brotherhood can count on that….

[@oneandonly1124]

your no hero your just a walking corpse….

[@InkedPunjabi]

*vault tec

[@ChudicusMaximus]

They tried to make them pay taxes

[@SanZullen]

The west-tek guy in the war room scene is actually the west-tek guy who got killed by the founder of the brotherhood at mariposa military base

[@OscoBosco]

I didn’t even make the connection holy hell

[@artyom-ovsepyan]

Why was he even there? He knew about the nukes dropping but decided to stay in the lab with a deadly virus? Mariposa could easily become the other Glow if nukes would fell there.

[@jcrossan1351]

Is that confirmed anywhere I thought there was just wes-tek scientists in the mariposa military base not higher ups like the guy in the war room scene ?

[@teogonzalez7957]

@@jcrossan1351he has the same name. Although not named on screen Amazon has a feature where all the characters on screen are named.

[@Dickson421]

⁠@@teogonzalez7957it’s probably my favorite feature on their app.

[@kalkuttadrop6371]

'Knocks on Vault 33's door' "Pardon me, but have you heard the good word of The Unity?" 'Gestures to giant Cathedral literally less than a mile away' "JOINDIEJOINDIE"

[@marcofogli4317]

The master is powerless when faced by the supermanagers winning the final game of capitalism in the ultimate monopoly of a desert world.

[@ChudicusMaximus]

(Speech 100) But you can’t coom though… “-ACK”

[@JoshuaGraham8383]

​@@ChudicusMaximus I can't breed

[@ytmld]

the master is powerless in the face of todd howard

[@DMAIRS]

​@@ytmldoh fuck nothing a sacred to these men. The show is just what emil and tod would do in fallout. And not even the good stuff the most bare bones shitty noncaring retard way they go about things. It just some how works. Everyones been on copium since the first draft of the fallout movie in the 90s. I dont think they could of done worse than what they did to the lore unless they thought it was good so are retarded. But what i think ond of the writer of big b thought mmm yes we will not be beholden to something someone wrote 20 years ago. So they can do what ever they want and not care or do anything about there shit

[@jessemach5817]

Bethesda/ the fallout tv show - we love dirt shacks with shirtless raiders and brotherhood always wins POV

[@grizzlyadamblack]

Sounds hot

[@vladimirrashkovsky6274]

“They didn’t retcon anything” *processs to tell me all the things they retconned for 20 minutes*

[@Russell-sb6kj]

He wants that bethesda cash mane just leave it... next positive bethesda comment you write well slide 20 $ under your door.

[@JuliusCheeser223]

Todd Howard confirmed in the interview about Shady Sands that the NCR is not a dead faction. For those familiar with Fallout lore, remember that the BoS and NCR had a war. The BoS destroyed the NCR's gold reserves making NCR currency worth nothing.

[@endosaurus1404]

Some people seem to be ignoring that for some reason. Just because we haven't seen places like the hub or a populated boneyard. People are annoyingly hung up on the Shady Sands location as if that is essential to the lore. We haven't even officially seen the place since the isometric days.

[@dillydraws]

@@endosaurus1404 Also it was the first capital so they probably moved to new Reno

[@endosaurus1404]

@@dillydraws True, why would they put 'first capital' if it didn't mean anything. Even if it doesn't get explained in the show they can expand on it in the future.

[@dillydraws]

@@endosaurus1404 Also it was on the sign BEFORE it was nuked. So they probably moved during the fall

[@JuliusCheeser223]

@@endosaurus1404 Shady Sands also moved location from Fo1 and Fo2. The maps are a little wonky tbh

[@matthewsmith7503]

I like to think that Maximus has the Idiot Savant perk

[@222oree]

That is an excuse for shit writing and inconsistent character?

[@haider5044]

@@222oree I really saw him as a bumbling fool since his introduction. If my impression is right, I think it's actually outstanding writing, of a very pathetic character.

[@222oree]

@@haider5044 I would use the word retard. And yes, if they wanted to write a clinically retarded person, they did it well. But deep down we both know that is not the case.

[@pablo_giustiniani]

​@@222oree dont expect a lot of social savvyness from a character that was raised by an isolationist cult

[@222oree]

@@pablo_giustiniani What? you do realize he lived in ncr for a big part of his childhood? and he wasn't in solitary confinement in the BoS. How would his social savyness suffer. Especially he was socially savvy in the bridge scene...

[@brodieorr5393]

i think the brotherhood stuff kinda blows. my main disappointment with the show is that they're trying to turn the developed west coast (which is actually interesting and deep) intro the boring barren east coast fallout games with their diamond cities and megatons

[@meninothomass]

same

[@thebreadbringer]

The writers even admitted that's what they did it. If they had wanted a generic tetanus shack wasteland show, then they could have set it literally anywhere but California. It's a disgrace to just erase the series' most interesting lore to make way for more generic wasteland with zero progression.

[@Someone-hd2vu]

@@thebreadbringer Have to wait for season 2 to see more of the West Coast I guess. But yeah. The one part of America that was finally moving past the old status quo and they seemingly nullified all of our achievements from Fo1 to NV for yet more of the same old tropes, same inevitable protagonists, I'm getting sick of it. If the NCR is well and truly gone and Vegas has been turned into a gutted ruin I might tune out of the show entirely.

[@bigiron1990]

Same. Did anyone else notice they kinda reskinned the NCR to look like some weird raider tribe instead of a young western nation? In NV they have CLEAR uniform and ranks. In the show they just look like a typical fallout 3 or 4 raider with maybe some knee or elbow pads. They look so generic.

[@meninothomass]

@@bigiron1990 I don't even know if they're supposed to be NCR or just some loyalists. Like, where is the congress? The army? Why is the president some warrior lady? I really want to believe they're just patriots LARPing as NCR

[@NightOfTheRavens]

They kinda f**ked up Sinclair, didn't they? He was a tragic character, and now he's just a villain.

[@kooolainebulger8117]

he was a simp

[@thebreadbringer]

It also doesn't make sense. Why does he represent Big MT? He was just a client.

[@Someone-hd2vu]

Yeah I'm just gonna headcannon "Freddy-boy" at the meeting as somebody else. Harvey Weinstein over there majorly ruins the vibe of the Dead Money storyline.

[@NightOfTheRavens]

@@kooolainebulger8117 Many simps are tragic characters.

[@K2niarDneK]

​@@thebreadbringer From what I remember, Big MT was going through financial hardship at the time. So it's not entirely out of the realm of possibility that Sinclair just took advantage and bought his way into the majority shareholder position. He was certainly wealthy enough to do so. Alternatively, the Think Tank (whatever their names were at this point) may just not have cared for business meetings. They were scientists, first and foremost, and may have reached out to Sinclair to act as their representative in exchange for some favors.

[@relint12]

I don’t think they are ‘canonizing’ the Mr House ending but I believe the personality of Mr House lives on in “the personality code” Yes Man mentions before going into reprogramming mode…. Wait didn’t he say the Yes Man personality system backup was why we couldn’t kill him? If he’s overwriting it wouldn’t that make that ‘new’ personality immortal? Queue Mr. House resurrection as an immortal personality.

[@ahealthkit2745]

Implying we don't just get a bombed out shell of New Vegas w/ Cooper's wife as the new big bad next season.

[@relint12]

@@ahealthkit2745 it could still be a big mess and House’s personality code remain. He’d only need one system node or securitron for his personality backup to survive.

[@ahealthkit2745]

@@relint12 There's no way House won't be at least somewhat relevant in s2, if not through directly being present in the way you described, then through his influence on the strip. Though tbh I suspect we aren't going to be in New Vegas long next season.

[@georgerockwell6124]

​@@ahealthkit2745better not be House always wins

[@thehousealwayswins5051]

Too bad Elijah couldn’t live long enough to see the brotherhood’s glorious comeback.

[@endosaurus1404]

True.

[@paybacksuper3670]

me after see some weird thing going on . . . yeah this BoS look weird and somehow remind of The Legion.

[@joaoribeiro2688]

makes sense i think, the BoS was already getting pretty cult like in fo4

[@WhackyWeiner]

​@paybacksuper3670 Bethesda is the death of fallout

[@paybacksuper3670]

@@WhackyWeiner old fallout is already death tho . . . so that already old news.

[@saloonboone]

Bethesda literally wrote dragon breaks into TES lore so they retcon freely, they have never cared about canon or consistency.

[@brodieorr5393]

Didn't they try to pull some like temporal rift bullshit to try to make morrowind make sense

[@willvermillion1025]

@@brodieorr5393you mean literally one of the best written 4th wall shattering plot elements?

[@ExpertContrarian]

@@willvermillion1025lol sure

[@overlordoftemi7255]

@@brodieorr5393 Yes, but did you WANT them to keep daggerfalls "lore"?

[@willvermillion1025]

@@ExpertContrarian the dude who used to write lore was a massive druggie and he wrote literally some of the best lore in a video game, Pelenial whitestrake is a good example of how high this dude was. Chim is tame comparatively.

[@TheeCapN]

I think tood nuked shady sands as a diss to the original devs. It's like he was making a statement. " Yea I win. Your IP is getting conanically nuked and you can't do shit about it"

[@fasteddy9312]

"Who's laughing now."

[@nolancook5724]

Todd didn’t even write the show

[@bigiron1990]

I always assumed the "canon" ending for NV was either NCR or Mr. House. Kinda silly to make the entirety of NV a pointless series of events in the timeline just so they can make people "happy" I dont get it. Just pick an ending. I know I shouldn't get upset over some damn video game lore but it's so heartbreaking to see something with as much love and world building as NV get ripped apart as cannon fodder to be repurposed as the most streamlined basic ideas. No more nuance in fallout, nuance is to scary for bethesda. I don't mind the idea of shady sands being nuked, it fits with the war never changes theme. It's just the way they do it and when in the timeline. Why not say the NCR crushed the Legion, took over the mojave region and worked with Mr. house and then a NEW threat comes and nukes the NCR. Was it Mrs. house? the BrotherHood? Some completely new Faction? Idk. whatever. I gotta let this go lol

[@apolloknight9521]

I think we will get our answer from season 2. We don’t know what’s happening and are just only speculating based on what we know from the show.

[@kaiserin6977]

To me it feels like the story and events that were built up in NV is just getting side stepped. I don't even mind Shady Sands being destroyed either, I just think the way it was done is such a copout to what was established in NV. The legion could have won the dam and destroyed shady sands, the tunnelers could've done it, Elijah with the cloud could've done it, or riots and civil unrest caused by food and water shortages could have done it. I'm not even against the idea of having Vault-Tec as a main villain for a fallout story its just that they feel shoehorned in so they could make the west coast simpler and more lawless like fallout 3. I also have a feeling it may have to do with adapting the series to general audiences who haven't played the games and therefore wouldn't know the past lore and reasons for the world being the way it is. So they simplified it and made the prior entries on the west coast less important so new viewers could better understand the plot and worldbuilding. Which isn't something I'm a big fan of, considering how future games will be off these new events, which in my opinion strips a lot of depth from Fallout. Though to be fair, I don't know what season 2 will bring. Maybe it will feel like a genuine believable continuation of the events of New Vegas and be directly tied with the games events and world building but I just don't trust they will do that.

[@bigiron1990]

@@kaiserin6977 I couldn’t agree more. They could honestly hand craft a NV ending to be canon with the amount of options they have given to them by the GAME ITSELF. Imagine the balls they would have if they made it canon the legion actually won the 2nd battle for Hoover damn, but ceaser finally died from his tumor. the rest of the legion and region is in chaos with no leadership at the wheel and it’s a wild power vacuum for either somebody to step up and run the legion or get completely taken over with a new faction.

[@Someone-hd2vu]

@@kaiserin6977 The show wasn't poorly written, it definitely tried to appeal to a wide audience unfamiliar with what went on on the West Coast in earlier entries, and shoehorning all the stereotypical Bethesda Fallout tropes into it. But it certainly wasn't Emil Pagliarulo-tier per se, which gives me hope that they might do something interesting with the NCR, hopefully Vegas, now that they've set the general basis for the show. I mean they can now elaborate as to what the NCR exactly is, and what it's been up to besides having its capital nuked. Perhaps they'll go into greater depth into the issues the NCR was facing by 2281 and how they were compounded by the loss of Shady Sands. It definitely, majorly sucks that they've rolled back so much of the progress that had been accomplished in the West from Fo1 through to FNV, but I guess we don't know the half of it until the next season. Definitely worried about the state of Vegas, what with the end credits showing it as a barren ruin and whatnot.

[@kaiserin6977]

​@@Someone-hd2vu​ Yeah I see what you're saying , I'm not trying to say it was nearly as vapid as fallout 4's story. The show did a nice job with it's characters and the story of the season is good. They have the usual tropes like you said but overall not terrible. However, that's not my main problem with it. I don't think it slots in with the events and themes of the world very well. They could expand and give us a good look on the state of the NCR and their potential fall/decline. They could focus more heavily on the wasteland politics of the post war world. Though this wouldn't change the terrible decision they made with the way shady sands was destroyed. The events of Vegas show each faction fighting for the Jewel of the Old World. Each faction having their own plans with the city/the dam and their own personal reasons for wanting to secure it. Then you have the obviously pure evil mega corporation coming out of nowhere to nuke the capital city of the NCR. If you were to look from Vegas to season 1 as a cohesive story there is 0 build up to what occurred. They shouldn't have used Vault-Tec as a main villain on something like the west coast. If Vault-Tec is going to be a great filter / barrier for post war civilization I think it would make more sense to write them in as operating on the east coast. Perhaps they could have been the reason why civilization never developed on the east coast since they've been pulling the strings for 200 years. Idk that's just my thoughts. I overall enjoyed the show though the depth just isn't there for me. Perhaps the second season will be a surprise and show us a better look of the wider world, but it really won't fix they way they handled Vault-Tec for me.

[@jaredmerrill10]

Its a dark day when the fallout west coast gets bethesdized

[@Midnightfr]

Bethesda supervised over NV when obsidian was making it, it got already got “bethesdized” and it’s very good so 🤷‍♂️

[@Geo-Global-oz5kl]

@@Midnightfr Oh please tell me, where the fuck did Bethesda "supervised" Fallout NV. Tell me oh mighty truthteller that if they "supervised" it, why did they force Obsidian into an 2 year development time frame. Holy shit, dude the copium is amazing. Get out tourist,

[@endosaurus1404]

​@@MidnightfrYa know, I never even thought of that. Technically bethesda had to approve of everything they did in NV?

[@dillydraws]

@@endosaurus1404 Yes and Obsidian higher ups agreed to the bonus deal and became a lot more focus on just keeping on adding instead of bug fixes. People love to blame Bethesda when Obsidian higher ups were also too blame.

[@endosaurus1404]

@@dillydraws That's the second time I've heard that. Interesting if true because that means there is a lot of revisionism going on.

[@Totally_Not_A_Queek_Main]

The first battle for hoover damn was in 2277 if I remember right so it is prob referencing the down fall beginning around when kimball entered office but leaving the date of the nuking unnamed so they have more room in writing

[@andrewmathewson341]

He later confirmed the nuking was in 2281, just later in the year than NV's events.

[@Lobsterwithinternet]

@@andrewmathewson341 Which still contradicts New Vegas as the House Ending or Yes Man ending has General Oliver and the NCR army either sent back to the NCR in disgrace or thrown off the Hoover Dam. But somehow this army that couldn't defeat the upgraded Securitron army at Hoover Damsuddenly turned around a year or two later and completely destroyed New Vegas? Yeah, gotta put an ‘X’ on that one chief.

[@GreenStranger]

​@@Lobsterwithinternet It's never said that the NCR destroyed new Vegas? What are you talking about?

[@Lobsterwithinternet]

@@GreenStranger Its in the last scene of the show where Hank looks over a completely destroyed New Vegas. We also see downed NCR Vertibirds and destroyed securitrons in the credits.

[@GreenStranger]

@@Lobsterwithinternet ah yes that's the only possiblity that could've implied. It's not like shady sands also got nuked relatively soon after the game ended

[@mask-mimic]

In the end credits we see “cryo suites” being advertised in NV (a recon but whatever) so that’s probably where Moldaver came from.

[@Midnightfr]

Honestly that’s probably just a misleading ad, don’t think they’ll go anywhere with it. Nice catch tho

[@thomasparker5393]

Ironically, Bethesda's treatment of the lore of the West coast seems completely analogous to Hank's nuking of Shady Sands. Vindictive, and threatened by a story they did not themselves create.

[@ghgtare]

I think if you genuinely believe Todd Howard/Bethesda has some vendetta against Obsidian/New Vegas/west coast lore you need to touch grass and stop believing in everything r/NewVegas and No Mutans Allowed say. Its not millionaire Todd Howard who has been nurturing resentment towards a 10 years old videogame, its a portion of the Fallout fanbase who has been nurturing resentment towards Todd Howard and is projecting that resentment onto him.

[@morewi]

​@@ghgtareTodd appreciates the ass kissing you just did

[@Rootiga]

no, bethesda just has no care at all about the lore and the hard soy fan boys of NV like you take it personally

[@marcofogli4317]

@@ghgtare And still they can point to logical facts and objective arguments while corporate defender shills have nothing but strawman, posioning the well and gaslighting. Curious.

[@janoycresva2279]

@@ghgtare Stop licking bethesda's boots you dog.

[@vanilla8956]

Wouldn't The Master have found this vault quite easily?

[@sirfrancisofthefilth3919]

oh, you expect Bethesda to know the lore of their own game? too bad, but no seriously, it is fucking stupid, they would have found it instantly.

[@ytmld]

he probably would have. but good ol bethesda retcons, making the story whatever filth they need it to be in the moment bc of their shortsightedness

[@plutoniumrocks]

Shady Sands being moved to the LA boneyard completely fucks over the story progression of Fallout 1 and 2. Vaults 31 and 4 have giant doors literally out in the open that I suppose the writers didn't care enough to think about how the Master looking for vaults was a major plot point in Fallout 1.

[@TheMissle]

Considering everyone in vault 4 is a mutant even before 2100 I guess the master thought it would be useless to take over the vault but for 32 and 33 it doesn’t make sense

[@bananaspice1967]

Lanius must've been sad to hear the NCR had fallen. He would've liked to do that himself.

[@DikaWolf]

According to the New Vegas citizen test the Capitol wasn't even called Shady Sands anymore; "What was the original name of the NCR Capitol?" And according to the billboard in the show, Shady Sands wasn't even the Capitol anymore before the bomb blew it up. So it's possible the NCR just moved Shady Sands near L.A., while remaining the old Shady Sands location something else (probably NCR as per the Fallout 2 game) or moved the Capitol to another city.

[@jorgejustin461]

I think Vault-Tec WOULD have dropped the bombs if no one else did. However, various in game details across the games heavily imply the Chinese dropped them first. There is a terminal in FO4, I think, at a radar station that where the tec writes a report about a Chinese Nuclear Capable Bomber heading towards the USA with several escort fighters. Furthermore, everyone in America seemed unprepared for the bombs to fall when they did, including Vault-Tec. Vault 88 in Fo4 is a good example of this. Given that Mr. House was at this meeting where Vault-Tec simply state they are willing to end the world there is a zero % chance that House did not immediately use the fact that literally everyone uses a Robco PC to find out EXACTLY what Vault-Tec's plans where, and in this case he would have certainly been prepared and gotten the Platinum Chip on time.

[@jamesgrisham6827]

Right? The damn pip-boys are made by Rob-Co and if Mr. House dies in New Vegas you immediately receive a copy of his obituary in your notes. The man is/was a fucking genius. If he was told that Vault-Tec intended to ramp up the conflict of the resource war with nukes for shits and giggles he would have done anything and everything to stop it. He was a billionaire captain of industry. There’s no way he would just sit on his hands and let the world end.

[@rubenvb1835]

Also why this something I saw but the vaults that we see in the show should have been raided by the master during fallout 1

[@ladonmccabe]

I know this isn't popular, but I wanna know what happened to the Legion. Caesar had a tumor in his brain. If he died, the Legion had a high chance of falling apart, but i hope not. The legion were awesome bad guys, and I'd hate for their story to just be over offscreen

[@EmperorAmbrose]

Bethesda probably won't even have the balls to even reference the legion.

[@dangi6516]

@@EmperorAmbrose they didn't have balls to tell that ''red's'' are communist china

[@mininoble2253]

He "Showed restraint", I don't know in what world dropping a nuke on a beloved city counts as that.

[@saltysaltmaker3848]

Big MT just describes this version of Sinclair's dinner plate.

[@RipePlantains]

Todd eternally buttpissed about New Vegas

[@Pls_Call_me_Frosty]

The events in the show took place shortly after the events of New Vegas, The show writer and Todd Howard confirmed that.between 2281-2286

[@funki4896]

You eternally buttpissed about Bethesda owning the IP 🤡

[@JoRoBoYo]

not really

[@Lobsterwithinternet]

@@Pls_Call_me_Frosty So the NCR was so weak that they collapsed after one random city was nuked but was powerful enough to come back directly after losing at Hover Dam and conquer a New Vegas with a suped-up Securitron Army and win? The date nor the events of the show collaborate that claim.

[@Lobsterwithinternet]

@@funki4896 If you had a puppy getting it's head kicked in year after year, you'd be mad too. Kind of like TLJ.

[@beedrill9027]

Our guys put the monorail back to work!

[@CoolerGuy121]

I would bet money right now that the events that are going to take place in season 2 of Fallout will directly correlate to the next Fallout game. It hasn't been this good to be a Fallout fan since 2010.

[@Arthurit1s]

Your commentary is always really funny but interesting to listen to Owen, I’m glad to hear you enjoyed the show too :)

[@JacyDavies]

In FNV several NCR officials talk about water issues back home (water table being completely drained, a massive issue) and the whole NCR being spread thin (imperialistic expansion without tech/personal/food to back it up). Water issue means food issue, since they're directly related to each other. A large number of historical empires have fallen due to drought -> famine -> civil unrest, and it was suggested pretty strong in New Vegas that the NCR was leading to that.

[@Hunter-zf7rt]

True,I mean they even task you to get research data to help them grow crops from vault 22.perhaps it's more political, cause we hear alot of ncr soldiers and civilians complain about the corrupt government

[@Ale-dd3ek]

That would have been a good way to show the fall of the NCR Much better than being randomly nuked by a dude for shit and giggles

[@Brooksey1992]

Glad you mentioned Emil and the damage he’s done to the franchise, i’m so happy that after all these years, he’s finally gaining infamy and even casuals are aware. He needs to go.

[@theguiltypaytheprice.4899]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/fF6Xopegi5lkhLcsi=dE0MSGFiheYjVbdz

[@JGCO115]

It would take a miracle to get this prick off board Worst case scenario is they just replace him with someone even worst at writing.

[@WowItzAkina]

So something I want to clarify that I think a lot of yall are missing is that this show takes place after the events in new Vegas. The fall of shady sands began back in 2277 (didn’t end, it began) hence why vault tec wanted to nuke shady sands to begin with. If shady sands had already completely fallen, they’d have no need to nuke it. The reason the fall of shady sands isn’t referenced in New Vegas is likely because the NCR as a whole was already struggling. The NCR Nevada branch had its own problems to deal with rather than worry about whats happening in California. As far as location goes, Fallout 1s map was not made accurate to begin with, fallout 2 never gives us a specific location for shady sands to begin with. According to the wiki shady sands is just a part of the boneyard, the boneyard refers to LA as a whole. Always has to my understanding. There was no “retcon”. We were never given a canon ending to new Vegas, we were never given a completely accurate location of Shady sands, timeline is still just about the same. Yall are complaining over nothing

[@Shiftinggers]

What. The. Fuck. Are. You. Talking. About? We don't have a specific location for shady sands to begin with? Shady Sands was THE FIRST settlement the Vault Dweller would've found out once he left Vault 13. You clearly haven't played any of the first games so shut the hell up kid.

[@Slender_Man_186]

Wtf are you talking about? Every other event on the board is referring to a singular event, and the “fall” of a city always refers to it’s destruction or complete take over like with Troy, Rome, or Constantinople. What do you think the people who survived the fall retroactively looking back at the past are going to refer to as the fall, some economic downturn and corruption, or a f$&king nuke? Speaking of which, the NCR’s problems as a nation had literally nothing to do with it getting nuked, Hank got c$&ked by a 200 year old lesbian communist and his ex wife took the kids, that’s it, that’s why it got nuked and that’s true regardless of the date. Speaking of which, Hank fabricated the existence of a plague in 2277 so no one would notice his family was missing and to explain how Rose died, unless we’re just saying that Rose didn’t go back to the vault to confront hank and get her kids back over the course of 4-5 years. There’s also proof from Shady Sands itself, in the credits for episode 5 we can see a library book from Shady Sands elementary in a locker, and the last date logged is in Autumn of 2276, in other words the school year for 2276-2277 hadn’t even finished yet (otherwise the book would’ve been returned) so it was nuked in *early* 2277. Literally everything within the show itself points to the Fall and the Nuke being the same thing, Todd’s statement is an instance where Death of the Author applies as it completely goes against everything the show says.

[@WowItzAkina]

@@Slender_Man_186 kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z4K6dmiPasaSepYsi=KggFLkX9v7dieTBa ^This debunks shady sands being nuked in 2277, so your entire point is invalid

[@WowItzAkina]

@@Slender_Man_186 also further more, fall of cities are not always “instant”. The fall of Rome for example happened over multiple connected instances, the “fall” refers to a decline of something. If your whole piece of evidence was that a book that’s dated from 2276 - 2277 shows up, you’ve got a weak point at best because for all we know that book could’ve just never gotten returned🤷🏻. Again, it’s not Todd Howard’s fault you lack the knowledge and attention span to actually use your cognitive thinking.

[@WowItzAkina]

Also I think my comment was hidden by KZbin but Donald Binks made a video debunking that the fall of shady sands happened in 2277

[@cannonfodder8907]

"they didn't retcon any lore! todd said so! just ignore all the lore they flat out ignore and paste over, which is the exact definition of a retcon!!! CONSOOM!!!!!"

[@BillyChungus]

Mr. Kung, I didn't finish the show yet so I will come back and watch this after I do that.

[@CamdenJerrardDavis]

I love the part where Barb Howard stares into the camera and says, "It's Fallout time" Before baptizing the world in Todd's noxious gasses.

[@hammy9622]

watch your videos when i be chilling bro your shit funny as even if i’m not playing fallout at the time

[@GeneralMcnutten]

Why does Bethesda just milk the bos ?

[@tdog4718]

Honestly idk, lack of creativity?

[@tykes115]

damn ive been following u on instagram for a long time didnt realise u made such good videos. good job dude keep it up

[@bearlogg7974]

It’s a great show BUT why would vault-tec nuke shady sands? I can 100% accept it being nuked but when it’s founded by Vault 15 using a geck & vault-tec plans it’s… wierd. Especially when Vault City & Arroyo etc exist around the corner built on the same vault foundations able to host ncr refugees & function without ncr law or government, the people aren’t exactly strangers to hard times/survival without law

[@jamesgrisham6827]

I don’t think the writers did any research into 1 and 2. They know about New Vegas, a little.

[@bearlogg7974]

@@jamesgrisham6827 Real, after the Nate in Fallout 1 fiasco i sincerly belive the only interaction with og Fallout bethesda writers has had is the 144p Fo1 intro on yt 💀

[@plutoniumrocks]

@@bearlogg7974 Emil is the worst writer to ever touch this series and Bethesda refuses to get rid of him, almost every shitty writing decision usually goes back to him.

[@celestepl0x]

Moises arias b like what if we mix the cheese with the jerky

[@peytongonavy]

The Brotherhood's transformation is a microcosm for the series as a whole. Different studios, like different chapters, all interpreting the spirit of the world a little differently. Now one of those ideas holds the power to exert its effects on wasteland.

[@stevenolivas7262]

I personally think Vault Tech was working with the part of the U.S government that ended up becoming the Enclave. That would explain how vault tech had access to nukes in the first place but also explain how Hank was able to nuke shady sands. I think Hank called in a favor as high ranking vault tech management.

[@bmagada]

No government no matter how inept would give access to the most destructive weapons that would guarentee the end of the world to a corporation without failsafes in order to ensure they dont go rogue. Arming codes and such. Even in the Fallout world those redundencies exist. It'd be more likely they secretly built their own seeing as their generator tech is nuclear in nature.

[@r32guy85]

this is possible but they are separate groups of course

[@arandomyoutubecommenter728]

@@r32guy85the exact nature of the two’s relationship is really unclear right now, to be honest

[@Spoon80085]

This also contextualized the reason to the Enclave's murdering of Vault Residents. While it's *far* from confirmation, the Enclave could be on bad terms with Vault-Tec. Maybe even to the point of open warfare. Which would also explain why the Enclave is so relatively weak; they weren't an autocratic, all powerful state before the nukes dropped. They were an exhausted government that had been fighting a decades long war, with resource shortages the whole time. They say in the show that they were broke, even. So, the corporations gained power, and eventually nuked the nation to establish utter dominance. The tattered remnants of the already weak US government were all that remained.

[@Spoon80085]

I also bet that Mr. House was averse to the idea of the Vaults/starting nuclear war. In the show, he questions the validity of the vaults as an investment, which while not outright rejecting them, is the closest to it that we get. In New Vegas he says that he calculated when the nukes would drop (which makes *way* more sense if he had prior knowledge to the Corpo's plan), and not outright *knowing* when the nukes would drop. He was even one day late- so he couldn't have known, really. He also says that *multiple* nukes were targeted towards Vegas (more than is necessary for a city of Vegas's importance)- maybe Vault-Tec taking out a competitor? And he tries to fill the vault in Vegas with concrete, which would be an odd move if he had worked on it himself.

[@matiasrisatti670]

It would be kinda cheap but totally normal irl that the blown up shady sands is a newer town named after the og shady sands.

[@son_of_the_heavymetal1142]

I think they're going for a "warp in the west" ending for Vegas too, but not "all ending happens at once". My theoretical timeline of evens for Vegas: - Courier wakes up, takes his walk to Vegas as usual - Gets the Chip before Benny goes into the Fort, but no Mark of Caesar - Courier joins up with House - They "convince" the NCR to attack the Dam - Courier goes into the fort and turn on the army - NCR wins the dam battle, then later tries to take Vegas - NCR armies in the Moyave gets frstroyed they manage to defeat the securitron army

[@MindSurfersInstallation]

That whole intro was like a buzz saw. I would have thought you were just trolling if I didn’t know any better.

[@fighter1375]

Considering in the New Vegas credit scene where several Securitrons have claw marks as well as a Deathclaw Skull, I thought New Vegas fell because of a large Deathclaw swarm invading, which explains why the Strip is so torn up. It doesn’t matter if you win the dam, if you’re too exhausted the Wasteland WILL find a way to destroy you

[@Cloverlee19]

it was more likely the tunnelers

[@ufuk5872]

The ghoul fight Bos is badass, but take a while to think about it, the helmets have lights. I'm glad that the show runner also shit on the Bos.

[@222oree]

Why didn't the ghould do that to Maximus in BoS armor? Also they did shit on BoS. They would never fly the US flag....

[@GrumpyReaper2525]

After the show the most probable thing that comes to my mind is that Vault-Tec is the foundation of the Enclave. That would explain Enclave scientist in episode one having a big Vault-Tec owned McGuffin AND one Vault-Tec employee managing to drop a nuke.

[@snudu]

a easy solution for the ncr is that after shady sands was nuked they decided to withdraw from some places and the soldiers we see in the game are just people who refused to leave. emil probably wont decide this but its the easy solution

[@jujuteuxOfficial]

they made it so that house knew who and when they were gonna make the bomb drops which goes directly against the origin of FNV, that his prediction for when the bombs would drop was off by a week, being why he didn't ge the platinum chip in time

[@jamesgrisham6827]

Yep. It’s so annoying that this show is supposed to be canon. If that wasn’t the case I’d have barely any issues with the show. Just have it be inspired by the games and let the showrunners do their own thing with the aesthetic and themes of the world instead of inevitably pissing off the built in audience.

[@TheSynthPunk]

Vault Tec being the new big dick antagonist faction is a great development. I'm gonna scream if we get 10 more games of Enclave vs BoS

[@Zeromegas]

The Fall of Shady Sands happen 5 years before the events of New Vegas and nobody in the game is speaking about it. That is the problem.

[@lennic]

Amazing video, been waiting for such a detailed recap, and indeed seeing my FAV dlc's represented even just a bit in a TV show is just epic!

[@diamondhamster4320]

Todd Howard just could not keep his dirty little hands off some one else perfect creation.

[@R33fth3b33f]

Somewhere out there, theres a courier with 2 gunshot wounds in his head either lording over vegas with House or is an insane madman merc

[@mininoble2253]

Todd didn't retcon anything to his credit, I guess, but he still made all of New Vegas's main story pointless as no matter who wins at Hoover Dam, Caesar doesn't get the industry to modernize the legion because those factories are now ash, the NCR loses all of it's control over Southern California let alone the Mojave, and by the look of it House's air defense didn't exactly stand the test of time.

[@Konrad-zc1ve]

"i'm sorry my boy but you need to know the NCR was always going to collapse it only depended if it happened sooner or later"- Arthur Morgan

[@MR.LMR1996]

Given the loses that the NCR Military endured during the 4/7 years they spent bogged-down in New Vegas? The destruction of Shady Sands after the Mojave Campaign resolved must've left the NCR to burnt-out to deploy a proper response to reclaiming the region, and were probably more focused on helping whatever survivors that they made contact with getting to saftey. Thus turning the region Shady Sands held dominion over into a Lawless State from a mixture of a weakened and demoralized NCR not having the recources to re-annex the region, to numerous gangs and raider tribes swarming into fill the power gap for their own benefit. Especially now that the rest of the NCR are probably clashing with a resurgant Brotherhood of Steel now. Who are being resupplied and reinforced by their more sucessful and battle-hardened Eastcoast Chapters with new troops and gear to turn the balance of power to the Westcoast's Chapters' favor.

[@corypowercat7277]

So the East went to the West which makes sense and Todd said in an interview that the NCR still exists.

[@Mr.idioticman]

They are in china

[@Lobsterwithinternet]

Then why haven't they secured Shady Sands in 15 years' time? And of course it did, the East Coast BoS is Bethesda’s golden child and they used that to clear the board so they can do whatever they wanted with San Francisco for Fallout 5.

[@bobbisrex9970]

@@Lobsterwithinternet radiation maybe from the nuke

[@Lobsterwithinternet]

@@bobbisrex9970 But then how did Maximus or the remnants from Shady Sands survive? Edit: Not to mention all the people living in the area.

[@bobbisrex9970]

@@Lobsterwithinternet cause todd said so

[@No_You116]

The West Coast Brotherhood is still split up into several chapters. It’s possible we’ll meet the Mojave Chapter. The film has probably revolved around a much larger chapter in the LA region.

[@Jebbushthefrickengoat]

Very awesome video. Keep up the good work

[@shyunknown9426]

Either he's heading to Mr House or vault in North side of the strip

[@kurtispalmer8168]

I dont get the hate that maximus gets but at the same time it makes a ton of sense considering how little the average person understands about trauma in general and also the military.

[@222oree]

He is a tard with no character...

[@Immortal-Dude]

You have missed one key detail from the show. Cooper's wife was looking at "Big Brother" aka The Enclave, right before she gave her speech to drop the bombs themselves. The Enclave still has their dirty fingers all over Vault Tech and their plans.

[@Icyfortune]

You forgot to mention that fallout 76 happens in the year 2102, making it a precursor to all the fallout games before it. (Reclamation day stuff)

[@Newest-Rose]

I really hope that House is still functional because I think it would be interesting to see House still in conflict with Vault Tech 200 years in the future.

[@raracordova5161]

I mean I think I speak for all normal people when I say I'd rather them just canonize one of the new vegas endings regardless of which ending. As opposed to some multi verse avengers bullshit.

[@Huntanor]

The enclave is a secret arm of the government. The show definitely implies the government was involved. It could easily be both. Gov gives contract asks for experiments and gives free reign over other vaults. Vault tech then sells the other corps their own experimemts.

[@blueberry4209]

The enclave also now canonically appears in fo4, taking a pounding once again by our mc but they do definitely still have a strong military

[@gonzoclan9603]

I dont think that vault tec launched the bombs, more than they did egg the chinese on, Both house and Sinclair knew of their plans and yet were both caught off guard by the wars start.

[@ruthlessasmr6662]

I'm really hoping that we get to see an EXTREMELY pissed off house and courier 6.

[@SL4PSH0CK]

Seeing the finale and credits scene of Vegas, just me or reminded me of Fallout Dust?

[@itsterres]

i feel like vault 21 has the top exec cause mr house ordered to fill the lower part of the vault because he knew they would stop him from restoring new vegas

[@TheMissle]

I have a theory that Hank is in touch with the Appalachian missle bases as by the end of fallout 76 we take full control of them before nuking the scorchbeast queen and whoever not to say our characters descendants still have that control

[@sammichfr]

really well made mr kung

[@TheHatbowler]

The ncr is populate with at least 1 million people, so having the ncr remnants just get wiped out in some random observatory seems stupid.

[@AnneHathawayRules]

I don't care who won the New Vegas war, I just PRAY we see the Legion and Lanius on the show!

[@Lonestar1017]

I hate how people completely sh*t on Fallout 4 it’s so corny. The Fallout show actually confirms that the Brotherhood DID win in Boston against the institute which is obviously BIG for the series as a whole especially because we know vault-tec and the enclave still exists in some capacity.

[@angsty_saint]

Imagine this shocker: the new general of the enclave . . . . COMMANDER DORNAN!

[@madworlddotwav]

Im pretty sure in the meeting scene a Enclave Executive was watching from above

[@cd7677]

I really like TIm Cain video on Lore drift adressing all this shit, he's just like "One time a kid called me santa claus, that's how y'all mfs are acting"

[@anthonycook5238]

Though I’m from West Virginia and fallout 76 an idea was cool , I really feel like going back to the West Coast like you said give the fallout series a breath of fresh air

[@Zero_XTZ5]

Owen kung you are one of my favorite fallout men.

[@DustyPazner]

Bathesdas darlings make a come back, the greatest faction gets nuked and the second greatest is never mentioned. Momento mori....

[@jewishpenguin_9228]

I want them to revisit the sierra madre

[@monkebusiness4065]

I don't necessarily think the board room scene writes the enclave out of project safe-house, I personally think the shadowy figure overseeing the meeting without necessarily being present is a member of the enclave, and probably the ceo of vault-tech too

[@AgentStone5]

if we see a NCR ranger carrying a 357 revolver in season 2 of the fallout tv show this whole fandom and me will loose it's shit

[@dwagin6315]

Great video. It's refreshing to hear a take from someone who is critical of Bethesda but doesn't outright want blood. I feel very much the same way, and your description separating Obsidian and Bethesda is perfect.

[@K25_the_first]

I believe that the Enclave wasn't wiped out but like the brotherhood was split up in different "chapters" across america, there would be alot of evidence of this in fallout 3 for example

[@JGCO115]

I haven't Played New Vegas in a few years but i remember the Brotherhood in FNV having some sort of a Schism between McNamara and one of the Paladins regarding them hiding out in the Lost Valley. If they're back in full force that either means McNamara got Ousted as elder either with or without courier six's interference. And that the Yes Man ending is canon since he's the only one who doesn't give a shit about wiping out the Brotherhood.

[@Midnightfr]

I’ve heard a lot of ppl talking about further retcons but after spending like a week and half combing through these supposed “retcons” the only real one I’ve found is the shady sands relocation, which considering we haven’t seen it since the isometric days I’m not sure that’s worth getting caught up on, besides they moved it a bit in FO2 to better serve the narrative and it seems like they did the same here which personally I’m all for as long as the story makes sense and the older games are still canon which they are so it’s crazy how many ppl are still throwing a temper tantrum about it. As for other “retcons” there aren’t any, just new additions to the lore and clarifications on things in the lore that have been speculated on for years or left a mystery like how ghouls turn feral for example. Only other thing I can think of that is a little goofy is that the master didn’t find vaults 31-33 (not counting vault 4 because they’re all mostly mutants already in there) but I suppose that can be chalked up to him just straight up missing them, overall tho either way it’s not exactly a lore infraction. That’s my two cents on the matter tho, great video btw. 👍

[@at_witts_end3470]

biggest one is that Fredrick Sinclair is an exec of Big MT and not just a contractor, though tbh, it's very possible he became an exec after he let the think tank use the sierra Madre for testing. Sorta like how Edwin Murray from FNAF became an Exec after Fazbear Entertainment bought him out.

[@Midnightfr]

⁠@@at_witts_end3470I’ve discovered one other possible lore infraction which is how did the Enclave have cold fusion in the first place? I know they are partnered up with Vault Tec in the lore, but it’s never said if Vault Tec straight gave them cold fusion or if they just stole it from them, either way it doesn’t explain the fact that since they have it why didn’t they use it in the games? It’s a game changer for any one faction to have access to, and since Vault Tec went tits up after the bombs and wasn’t able to use cold fusion until enough time had passed on the surface for them to want to return to it, why didn’t the Enclave take advantage of the cold fusion they had? Were they saving it or were they just not able to access it since it isn’t said whether they have the codes to do so or not. Honestly I’ve been able to explain the other 2 lore infractions in my head so they don’t bother me, maybe I’m just looking too deep into this one tho. Would be great to hear other opinions on it.

[@ahealthkit2745]

@@Midnightfr There's a lot more than 'one plot hole', the 'new' lore added to the game regarding ghouls? Never existed, never hinted at in any previous title.

[@Midnightfr]

@@ahealthkit2745You’re missing my point, there is NO proper explanation or overwhelming amounts of hints that told us how ghouls turn feral post ghoulification in the games, this is the first time we’re actually learning about it. There’s been speculation for years is what I’m trying to say, not that the games have given us an explanation already. Also for all we know some ghouls could’ve very well turned feral when they first because ghoulified instead of becoming a normal ghoul, my point is that this is a NEW addition to the lore that isn’t a retcon. Retcons are lore changes that have no explanation and get rid of a past reason as to why something happens, but since in the past we never got a concrete reason why they turn feral, there’s no retcon here. It’s simply clarification on how they turn feral, you see what I’m trying to say? Also yes, if it was their plan along to make it this way there should have been in game hints, but there aren’t hints to any other explanation in the games either, so if anything that’s a goof on the games for never proper explaining it in the first place. Still tho no retcon, just a solved mystery. We never knew if normal ghouls turn feral after their initial ghoulification, but honestly them taking radway (yes that’s what the ghoul is taking in the show) to stave off the excess amounts of radiation necessary to turn a ghoul feral makes sense. In short, some ghouls turn feral when initially undergoing ghoulification, and some didn’t, and the ones that didn’t had to use radway to prevent themselves from turning and losing their mind in the process. It seems like both too much radiation and the loss of one’s sanity leads to turning feral. Also my bad for the essay lol

[@ahealthkit2745]

@@Midnightfr It actually isn't, this concept was explored just as poorly in FO4's Nukaworld dlc. The idea of ghouls going feral didn't need a miracle drug, nor a spokesperson who is capable of shrugging off bullets.

[@josuebartley7272]

A war between the east and west brotherhood would be really cool

[@angsty_saint]

Don't forget the ominous warning from ulysses about the beasts that come for vegas... and they come from underground...

[@Hank_Castle]

It feels like the round table is the enclave

[@kooolainebulger8117]

wonder how they're going to handle the legion

[@MR.LMR1996]

As we've seen in FO:NV, the Westcoast Chapters of the Brotherhood of Steel were in decline. If someone like Arthur Maxson was in Veronica's shoes during her personal quest to try and sway her Chapter into adopting new ideas for their survival - someone with legitimate influence within the Brotherhood's higherchy - chances are her attempts to sway the Chapter would've worked. Something that would be vindicated later on given how sucsessful the Eastcoast Brotherhood are compared to the Westcoast Brotherhood. Whilst the Westcoast Brotherhood has spent decades trying and failing to fight a nation of Post Apocalyptic Tax Collectors, the Eastcoast Brotherhood has been holding the line and kicking ass once they defeated the Enclave in the late 2270s. And with the more powerful and better-equipped Eastcoast Chapters now being under the command of the last of the Maxson Bloodline? Who has now pretty much become the defacto equivilant of King Arthur to the Brotherhood of Steel as a whole? The weakened Westcoast Chapters have no counter arguments against the reforms made by Owyn Lyons before him, and the reforms Arthur Maxson chose to keep and expand upon when he became Elder. Thus the Westcoast Chapter fell in line to their Eastcoast Chapters - hell I wouldn't be surprised if The Citadel has usurped Lost Hills as the de-facto HQ of the Brotherhood of Steel across Post-War US now.

[@GuyMoreno-gw5md]

I think the meeting is more implying that vault TEC and co. sabatoged peace talks and such, but I think they didn't start it for 2 reasons: No One was prepared for it, neither Mr. House, who's off by a day and the ghoul's wife, if she knew the bombs where about to drop she wouldn't have let her be out with coop. And 2, vault TEC and co. aren't as much in control as it seems, we have the shady guys overseeing the meeting, and the fact that the enclave has control over every single vault, means it ain't vault TEC at the helm. Moreover, it's about the stupidest business decision you can make to end the world, mainly because there ain't no moolah and no one to buy your shit. But sabatoging peace talks on the other hand, making people afraid enough to buy into the vaults, seems like something vault TEC would do.

[@222oree]

Man why is that not in the show then? There are few fanfic sites I can direct you to XD

[@JohnBrowningsGhost]

​@@222oreeIt begs the question. Why would "capitalists" destroy the economy, and kill their customers?

[@222oree]

@@JohnBrowningsGhost Because the show is utter shit. Real reason is that the show writer/showrunner himself is self proclaimed socialist and wants to critique capitalism ''like in the 90s''. (his words BTW)

[@user-nn6go1jx1h]

2277 was the year of the first battle of Hoover dam,that's what I though they were referencing