Oxford Debate LIVE: Will Asia's Rise Lead to a New World Order?

ZURICH, April 8, 2024 - In this live ‘Oxford Debate,’ participants are debating whether Asia’s rise will lead to a new world order. Arguing for the motion are Abigaël Vasselier, director for Policy and European Affairs at MERICS; and John Delury, historian and professor at Yonsei University. Arguing against the motion are Julia Ganter, programme director of International Affairs at Körber Foundation; and John Lee, director of consultancy at East West Futures. Asia Society Switzerland Executive Director Nico Luchsinger moderates the debate. (1 hr., 5 min.)
This event was hosted in collaboration with Impact Hub Zürich, foraus, and the Swiss Institute of International Studies.

[@paulianas1782]

Civilization started in Asia. Asia embraced the rise of the West just fine. Why now when the curve goes back to Asia, there has to be any problem on the West?..

[@JameBlack]

Civilization started in Middle East which is basically Europe

[@jakew5987]

@@JameBlack So why can't the West tolerate the Middle East if they are cousins?

[@hehe-mq2bk]

@@JameBlack no. It's West Asia. Not Europe. Arabs are very far from Europeans

[@user-nh9uf3po7w]

@@JameBlackMiddle East is 100% in Asia

[@paulianas1782]

@@JameBlack Middle East means 'the middle part/region/section of the East'.

[@sebastiankingong7536]

China and South East Asia nations except Pinoy will experience impressive economic performance. The Western involvement of the wars in Europe, and the Middle East will further deteriorate the Western economic performance.

[@ZhenYae]

Filipinos and Indians are ' Anglo Saxon! ' 🤣

[@zjarslipformpaver189]

​@@ZhenYae Filipinos and Indians are Anglo Saxons' loyal servants.

[@yomamasohot6411]

​@@ZhenYae exactly! I understand having favourites but to not name the fastest growing major economy in the world is just living in denial.

[@ZhenYae]

@yomamasohot6411 It was meant as sarcasm. And why would Indians want to contain China, if not for that sick and demented Anglo-Saxon mentality? Zero Sum?! How will Indians ever hope to check on the Chinese when they trail behind China's at least six times? The world does not need Indians, but the world needs China for their productive outputs currently enjoyed by the world, which will prevail in the future. They won't fail the Chinese, and the Chinese won't fail them either.

[@ZhenYae]

@yomamasohot6411 It was meant as sarcasm. And why would Indians want to contain China, if not for that sick and demented Anglo-Saxon mentality? Zero Sum?! How will Indians ever hope to check on the Chinese when they trail behind China's at least six times? The world does not need Indians, but the world needs China for their productive outputs currently enjoyed by the world, which will prevail in the future. They won't fail the Chinese, and the Chinese won't fail them either.

[@kindface]

After less than a minute into John Lee's opening remarks, I've had to switch off and out. Not sure how and where he's been spending his last 10-15 years but for him to speak of the "First World" still being in commanding lead in tech etc, you know where this discussion is heading when someone is so far out there bathed in delusion or denial.

[@richardparker1338]

Hah! That's as far as I got.

[@kamsang686]

he got aaian face know nothing about asia Zero.

[@ZhenYae]

@@kamsang686 Imbued with Western....😁😁

[@Hockss]

Asian face but live in the West

[@stefenleung]

That's the favor's fault. "First world" aren't exactly in commanding lead in tech. On many field like 5G, transit, rockets, robotic, green energy, nuclear energy, etc. China is better. Also "technology" is useless if you can't manufacture products out of it.

[@hehe-mq2bk]

Asia is the future. This is without a doubt. NVIDIA which has an Asian founder shows that asians are just as capable or even surpass whites in innovation and production... Asia will rule omce agian as it has for millenia... Our greatest driver will be tech, the majority of which will have A LOT of asians involved

[@ZhenYae]

Harmonious living unlike the West that will take precedence.

[@somap8380]

They are already involved.

[@zjarslipformpaver189]

A great majority of the talents working in US and European tech companies are Chinese

[@xoho3462]

@@zjarslipformpaver189what they’re saying is asian nations, are the future.

[@iScoopyPal]

The first speaker possesses critical thinking. She is informed and analyzes information coherently. The second speaker is a high school-level debater. She has no intellectual ability and is unable to connect the dots. The third speaker is a good backup for the first speaker. The last speaker is still living under a rock. He is clueless.

[@ZhenYae]

And they will end up in Western Governments echo chambers.

[@JamesLee-mr2uf]

I agreed the last speaker is clueless, lack of research and understanding of China economy, technology, political and history.

[@deewhy8854]

One thing about the second speaker that stuck in my mind: shes incorrect that overseas universities are preferred to China's own ie inferior (so implied). The reason, as I understand, is it is extremely difficult to get into China's top Uni's in particular Peking Uni and Tsinghua Uni; as such have opted to pursue university education in US and other western countries like UK, Australia especially those who can afford western university education (there're many wealthy Chinese).

[@F3CKTHEZIOS]

@@deewhy8854 also many people study abroad as a adventure and fun and yes many western university are prestigious/good so lots of people also study abroad. top western universities had a big advantage as they are quite old and prestigious with greatly funded meanwhile China didn't had that back in the day but now they have all the ability of compete with them. china has over billion of people so its not unusual to see Chinese people in major western universities lol as not every Chinese can go to universities such as pekings

[@Therhythmofthemachines]

belt and road initiative is crumbling before our eyes, and no Chinese diplomat have mentioned AIIB since its inauguration. She likes to bring about names, but clueless about reality and what is happening on the ground, just like what all civil servants and bureaucrats are.

[@vanveakrin276]

Chinese increase in the use of robots will help the Chinese to increase productivity and AI will help to accelerate the improvement in future designs

[@Facts..Checker]

Meanwhile, India will continue to BS and stay ahead of all.

[@privacyhelp]

@Facts..Checker Mexico will be ahead of India.

[@SokhomPrins]

China robbed the world, waging WW3. My memoir Love of Life - A Miraculous Story! rewrite aspect of world history. The book tell the story that no one ever heard of.

[@ZhenYae]

@@Facts..Checker said, is it not. they will do worse than the collapsing west. they have hegemonic tendencies like their colonial masters.

[@ArmageddonIsHere]

​@@Facts..Checker Your fear of India is palpable. And very well founded. At the rate China is falling, India will be kicking you around in about a decade. Believe me, India hasn't forgotten Chinese superciliousness directed at it.

[@sportsonwheelss]

The Chinese send their kids outside the country because their kids are not good enough to compete at home. It is 10 times easier to go to quality school aboard than quality school in China. If you haven't notice that the gold medalist and silver medalist on the math and science olympiads are consistently between the US and China. If you look at the picture between the two team, you can barely recognize which country they represent if it wasn't for the flag behind them.

[@GeoScorpion]

LOL! My own Chinese graduate-level computer engineering tutoring students at Northeastern are utterly SHOCKED to learn they can't just sit back and coast, playing video games and automatically gaining their degrees like their colleagues in China's elite universities. They actually have to work and think and problem-solve in ways many are completely unprepared for. When the Chinese students who study in the West return home to China, they are picked first for jobs over those who went to Chinese colleges. Even the CCP-published data doesn't bother to lie about that (mostly because it's their kids who are going to foreign schools).

[@sportsonwheelss]

@@GeoScorpion nice story. was that like 20 yrs ago? Try to update your info. Kids come back from the States no longer get preferential treatment. actually are frowned upon. Were you mistaken for Japanese student in the case of costing in University?

[@GeoScorpion]

@@sportsonwheelss Universities in the USA and UK (probably other Western Nations) publish stats (without faking the data the way the CCP does) so there are several different ways using several different data sources to see how many Chinese graduates from US colleges go back to China with fast-tracked job opportunities v.s. the number alleged even by stroked and padded CCP data.... OH! Wait! That's right! The CCP doesn't even publish Youth Unemployment Data after the fake "Official" numbers hit over 21+% and the real, unofficial estimates were closer to 40%. The funny thing is that Chinese graduates from US colleges and universities were largely unaffected by the downturn. You can look it up yourself from any data source in any language from any transparent country. (drops the mic, exits stage Left) 🤣😘

[@user-xd2jz6xs8r]

@@GeoScorpion Chinese companies will prioritize recruitment from domestic universities over foreign ones. Unless you are a specialized subject

[@anjunadeep.8384]

The WEST are SO AFRAID of asia's rise.... Hahahahhaa

[@willthecat3861]

No. Asia isn't China. No one's afraid of China... except maybe the Chinese. The West just doesn't want to rely on China (to do anything) ... or in some cases to trade with China. And, the West doesn't have to do either. And, there is little that Xi can do about it.

[@rgg1642]

Classic British: Talking about rising without any speaker from India and China or Asia.

[@acrux4556]

That's the real point here they are not talking for Indians/ Chinese or Asians. They are talking for western audience.

[@peterpph126]

Even the name, Asia Society, is a misnomer

[@louisschumacher]

LOL. thank you, this is the best comment I read today.

[@GeoScorpion]

@@peterpph126 It's not a misnomer: It's a largely Western academic group that studies Asia, not an Asian group that studies Asia (and certainly not a Chinese group that promotes 'China' in the name of representing all of Asia)

[@GeoScorpion]

Also, the one guy on the right is Asian. He even said he's from Korea and has a Korean accent.

[@juhantoon6524]

The 2 opponent speakers are arguing just like the US politicians and the Anglo Saxon news medias ie : twist and turn with no fact and even lying.

[@user-ve7xq2xy3g]

👍👍👍👍

[@ZhenYae]

Stuck in their Western thoughts, shenanigans and hubris. That is all they are now.

[@peterpph126]

Don’t blame them as they thought were formed & manipulated with the daily bombardment by their governments & msm

[@GeoScorpion]

@@ZhenYae Why aren't you at the front, supporting your Russian brothers?

[@GeoScorpion]

Hmm... one side is saying that Asia WILL rise and the other is saying that it won't, so you are saying they are both lying? LOL! Also, they may not have had a choice about which side they are supposed to argue. It may have been assigned randomly: It's an Oxford Debate.

[@user-gl2wu2fs8h]

Learn Chinese Civilisation, Confucianism -Taoism political History and Culture of the pre - colonial era ( two to three thousands years ago) more thoroughly and we will recognise why there's China rejuvenation . The pains of self proclaimed righteousness and racist in the name of White man Burden" colonialism lives on today. To the 88% of the who live outside the Western Bloc, evidently, World Disorder began in the 18th Century when colonialism, White supremacism, slavery, cultural genocide, exploitative capitalism and violence perpetuate ruthless imperialism and political bigotry, Zionism destroy peace, harmony stability and prosperity.

[@ZhenYae]

They missed out on the Axial Age. They are still the savages who have adopted and adapted to social Darwinism. Quite the animalistic.

[@ZhenYae]

They missed out on the Axial Age. They are quite the animalistic individuals as a society that have adopted and adapted to social Darwinism. The jungle...,

[@ZhenYae]

My comment was deleted...

[@anonymintheworld9781]

well said！

[@biggpicture2930]

Confucian was strifling china and korean progress

[@user-fo2uh4rm5c]

亞洲與中國現沒有太多和牛津聯繫，俗稱'关你屁事'，自作多情。

[@thomaslee2783]

对你的问题的简单解释是：一个垂死的帝国试图看起来重要。In English: A simple explanation for your question: a dying empire try to look important.

[@tempuser109]

Agreed

[@yodaichi888]

​@thomaslee2783 u mean the west😅

[@bunnyhei]

哈哈哈哈​@@thomaslee2783

[@yangli7279]

啊哈？在大陆，我们会经常讨论希腊罗马文明、西方帝国的崛起，欧美文明和经济文化的影响，即便我们和他们没有太多联系，这是自作多情吗？

[@vanveakrin276]

Chinese industrial output will move into high Value engineering products and the Chinese technicians will produce more high value products.. which will make Chinese output the leaders of the World industrial output..

[@richardparker1338]

This is already the case.

[@salamanders6969]

Really? How do you know that? You must have access to insider information that others don’t.

[@richardparker1338]

@@salamanders6969 Just look at solar panels, battery technology, eVehicals, factory automation, space station, railways. China is way ahead of anything the US can produce. Europe's industry is hollowed out, and with no more cheap and reliable gas from Russia, it is destined for nowhere.

[@vanveakrin276]

Russian will support raw materials for future Chinese productions for Chinese New industrial output ... Chinese consumer population will adapt , and Chinese consumer population will improve their incomes , all will depend on volume of future demand and future Output ...

[@kaimanyu586]

@@salamanders6969 according to ASPII, an Australian thinktank, China is leader in 90% of the 44 essential technologies. China produces more ships than the whole world combined. China manufacturing capabilities is larger than US, EU and Japan combined. China produces 5 million STEM graduates each year, the US only 300.000. The "flip" has already happened, John lee is a dumb clown, who knows nothing about China.. His colleague, she is just as clueless...

[@user-sf6bq2gn4h]

Remember, divide and rule principle. By the British, it worked for them and it's still being used today.

[@Youevilpeoplewillpay]

It worked for them until it didn't work anymore. Now they are declining fast!😮

[@vinpatrel7517]

@@Youevilpeoplewillpaycontinue to dream

[@SokhomPrins]

China’s Xi stole the world, waging WW3. My book rewrites world history.

[@realchinachina2539]

@@vinpatrel7517duck

[@juki0h391]

@@vinpatrel7517 It is. The west is in decline. The world is moving forward while the west is still thinking about imperialism.

[@GIZMO3380]

😂😂😂 Obviously, a Western Audience. 😂 John & Abigael presentation was so factual and clear while Julia & Lee was basically out of scope and full of irrelevant justification.

[@stefenleung]

I think it's the point for debate. They would never win to just talk about fact. They can win by twisting the topic and create confusion to the audience. That's how politician works.

[@lisashung9442]

The Second Lady speaker: Africa is fast growing and will be more prosperous in future. However, its starting points are too far below Asian countries…….the governing system, living standards, education, infrastructure, tech…….nothing comparable to Asia…….the gap between these two at least 30 years apart.

[@user-vi5oj2he8j]

ok,let me see what japan look like in 1990……

[@Steve-so7uk]

yes true Africa needs a lot of catching up especially Infrastructure and increasing their HDI through education, acquire new skills, health, R and D and discipline. The culture of hard working and diligent is found in many South, South East and North Asia and East Asian countries.

[@SilverforceX]

John Lee is still living in the 90s in his head. China has the lead in most technology fields these days.

[@vincentleung7442]

Debating "Will" not "How"? These guys are seriously out of touch 😂

[@ZhenYae]

Western World, Western IDEALISM, Western Hubris. Western ....

[@sunsun7762]

This is one of the worst debate I have ever seen, the opposing team is absolutely Clueless.

[@krishanugoldar2747]

🌍🌏🌟🎉🙇‍♀️🫁🫀🧠❤️🌍🌏🌟🎉

[@nanyanguo1]

intentionally clueless to tout western talking points. about China.and even put an asian face to do it.

[@Time4Peace]

Neither China nor India (and for that matter, Japan, South Korea or Indonesia) has a history of divide and rule or predatory behaviours. This new order is about self determination through trade, investment and peace. Not one of economic and military dominance of US/West while the global south just takes orders, like in the case of IMF and World Bank. Whether this new order is completely new (not likely) or modification of the old (more likely) is academic. It's not about whether China or India leading but that most of the world are unhappy with US/West holding dominant power over the rest of the world.

[@JameBlack]

It's likely be a world of constant conflict and wars, only WEST made a substantional efforts to stop infightings. Countries of Asia have borders which in many ways were not established by the respecting nations but by western colonizers. So there will be numerous wars around China and India, we see this in Russia, Middle East is basically burning non stop, China has multiple frozen conflicts at the doorstep (Taiwan, Korea). So dont fool yourself into a peacfull world order.

[@leongleow9791]

Japan invaded China, Korea and large parts of SE Asia in WW2

[@shiroineko7582]

Japan??

[@ArmageddonIsHere]

China invaded and occupied Tibet in 1960. Still think China "has no predatory motives"?

[@anonymintheworld9781]

why wont let me leave comment？

[@kinchau4764]

Second speaker needs to go back to school, freshman high school at best.

[@caojason-ph2pg]

We Chinese happy to see the West world is addicted to John Lee's opinion. Hope they are keeping statisfy&trust their strength and priority. But we Chinese welcome your visit and discover a real China with your eyes. And we trust communication and used to learn from each other.

[@Wwmmgg95554]

Kashor Mabubani is a senior singapore diplomatic and well-known academics expert on Asian rising. He said, "Last two hundred years of western domination is aspirations in the two thousand years human history. Rising Asian is returning historical normal.

[@pcstar123]

This LEE throws around a lot of big terms and names which I doubt he even understood, I'm completely at a loss what he's talking about!

[@user-ey6ce3tb2j]

these so call 'oxford debate ' ought to talk about the war crimes of united states over the last 50 years !!! “The United States has carried out 34 percent of its 392 interventions against countries in Latin America and the Caribbean; 23 percent in East Asia and the Pacific region; 14 percent in the Middle East and North Africa; and just 13 percent in Europe and Central Asia, according to a newly refined version of the Military Intervention Project (MIP) dataset - a venture of the Center for Strategic Studies at Tufts University’s Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy.” From David Vine’s The United States at War: 1941-1945 World War II (Europe, North Africa, Asia/Pacific) 1946 Trieste 1947-1949 Greece 1948-1949 Berlin, Germany 1950 Formosa (Taiwan) 1950-1953 Korea 1953-1954 Formosa (Taiwan) 1955-1975 Vietnam 1956 Egypt 1958 Lebanon 1962 Cuba 1962 Thailand 1962-1975 Laos 1964 Congo (Zaire) 1965 Dominican Republic 1965-1973 Cambodia 1967 Congo (Zaire) 1976 Korea 1978 Congo (Zaire) 1980 Iran 1981 El Salvador 1981 Libya 1981-1989 Nicaragua 1982-1983 Egypt 1982-1983 Lebanon 1983 Chad 1983 Grenada 1986 Bolivia 1986 Libya 1987-1988 Iran 1988 Panama 1989 Bolivia 1989 Colombia 1989 Libya 1989 Peru 1989 Philippines 1989-1990 Panama 1990 Saudi Arabia 1991 Congo (Zaire) 1991-1992 Kuwait 1991-1993 Iraq 1992-1994 Somalia 1993-1994 Macedonia 1993-1996 Haiti 1993-2005 Bosnia 1995 Serbia 1996 Liberia 1996 Rwanda 1997-2003 Iraq 1998 Afghanistan 1998 Sudan 1999-2000 Kosovo 1999-2000 Montenegro 1999-2000 Serbia 2000 Yemen 2000-2002 East Timor 2000-2016 Colombia 2001 - Afghanistan 2001- Pakistan 2001- Somalia 2002-2015 Philippines 2002- Yemen 2003-2011 Iraq 2004 Haiti c2004- Kenya 2011 Democratic Republic of the Congo 2011-2017 Uganda 2011- Libya c2012- Central African Republic c2012- Mali c2013-2016 South Sudan c2013- Burkina Faso c2013- Chad c2013- Mauritania c2013- Niger c2013- Nigeria 2014 Democratic Republic of the Congo 2014- Iraq 2014- Syria 2015 Democratic Republic of the Congo c2015- Cameroon 2016 Democratic Republic of the Congo 2017- Saudi Arabia c2017 Tunisia 2019- Philippines The supreme international crime according to 2017 U.S. media reporting is interfering nonviolently in a democratic election - at least if Russia does it. William Blum, in his book Rogue State, lists over 30 times that the United States has done that. Another study, however, says 81 elections in 47 countries. France 2017 makes that total at least 82. Honduras 2017 makes it 83. Russia 2018 makes it 84. The 2020-revealed 1964 coup in British Guiana makes it 85. Somalia 2022 would be 86. There are clearly dozens more. In a reality-based assessment of U.S. crimes, the serious offenses begin beyond that threshold. Here’s Blum’s list of over 50 foreign leaders whom the United States has attempted to assassinate: 1949 - Kim Koo, Korean opposition leader 1950s - CIA/Neo-Nazi hit list of more than 200 political figures in West Germany to be “put out of the way” in the event of a Soviet invasion 1950s - Chou En-lai, Prime minister of China, several attempts on his life 1950s, 1962 - Sukarno, President of Indonesia 1951 - Kim Il Sung, Premier of North Korea 1953 - Mohammed Mossadegh, Prime Minister of Iran 1950s (mid) - Claro M. Recto, Philippines opposition leader 1955 - Jawaharlal Nehru, Prime Minister of India 1957 - Gamal Abdul Nasser, President of Egypt 1959, 1963, 1969 - Norodom Sihanouk, leader of Cambodia 1960 - Brig. Gen. Abdul Karim Kassem, leader of Iraq 1950s-70s - José Figueres, President of Costa Rica, two attempts on his life 1961 - Francois “Papa Doc” Duvalier, leader of Haiti 1961 - Patrice Lumumba, Prime Minister of the Congo (Zaire) 1961 - Gen. Rafael Trujillo, leader of Dominican Republic 1963 - Ngo Dinh Diem, President of South Vietnam 1960s-70s - Fidel Castro, President of Cuba, many attempts on his life 1960s - Raúl Castro, high official in government of Cuba 1965 - Francisco Caamaño, Dominican Republic opposition leader 1965-6 - Charles de Gaulle, President of France 1967 - Che Guevara, Cuban leader 1970 - Salvador Allende, President of Chile 1970 - Gen. Rene Schneider, Commander-in-Chief of Army, Chile 1970s, 1981 - General Omar Torrijos, leader of Panama 1972 - General Manuel Noriega, Chief of Panama Intelligence 1975 - Mobutu Sese Seko, President of Zaire 1976 - Michael Manley, Prime Minister of Jamaica 1980-1986 - Muammar Qaddafi, leader of Libya, several plots and attempts upon his life 1982 - Ayatollah Khomeini, leader of Iran 1983 - Gen. Ahmed Dlimi, Moroccan Army commander 1983 - Miguel d’Escoto, Foreign Minister of Nicaragua 1984 - The nine comandantes of the Sandinista National Directorate 1985 - Sheikh Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah, Lebanese Shiite leader (80 people killed in the attempt) 1991 - Saddam Hussein, leader of Iraq 1993 - Mohamed Farah Aideed, prominent clan leader of Somalia 1998, 2001-2 - Osama bin Laden, leading Islamic militant 1999 - Slobodan Milosevic, President of Yugoslavia 2002 - Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, Afghan Islamic leader and warlord 2003 - Saddam Hussein and his two sons 2011 - Muammar Qaddafi, leader of Libya

[@user-sf6bq2gn4h]

Brics countries will be buying made in Russia, china, india ect.

[@blahblah-yx7bl]

made in russia?? india????

[@jp-h-0221]

@@blahblah-yx7bl Weapon, curry...

[@somap8380]

India produces vast number of things; anything you use has an Indian touch, directly or indirectly.

[@cryptorenegade1406]

Anything you use has an Indian touch, yeah like the manual wash boards for laundry which is polluting the rivers in india

[@appsb4537]

@@jp-h-0221 Russia's weapons exports had declined even before they went into Ukraine again in 2022. France overtook them last year.

[@stevegao306]

Four people are involved, three are white and one is Asian, talking about Asian things

[@oreradovanovi5204]

First Q is ridiculous Min39 no mention of the imperialism

[@henrym5043]

colonial order, not international order

[@vinceversionwindvision]

Greeting from TADETADE BLEND by VINCE KYLam. Thank you so much such an amazing conversation and great profound speaker. TQVM.

[@cryptorenegade1406]

China has the "Great Hall of the people" USA has the "Great Hall of the Ultra-Rich"😂😂

[@John_Frederick08]

China has more gold than Americans lol

[@bhubestakesoponsatien1143]

Simple, can one produce just household goods in their countries? Is it competitive ? New world order, is nothing new , just accept what is coming and live happily

[@Steve-so7uk]

RCEP was the greatest invention led by ASEAN that created trade turnover of USD 2 Trillions within the member countries ( China, Japan, South Korea, ASEAN , Australia and New Zealand ). RCEP Zone has a total population of 2.3 Billions alone but it 's GDP PPP is already around USD 60 Trillions in 2024. You can see so much wealth in ASIA nowadays . So yes there is a party in DC that is envious and you can add Russia in the mix with RCEP as well.

[@alyasagan3620]

I think what lee is all assumption .. he does not understand new technology... He is still think the steam tech... He does not understand the change today... The power is shift is there already...

[@Godonmars]

I think its difficult to replace the western world order aka American world order because all these people of Europe, USA and Australia are one and the same people not just in terms of ethnicity/race but also political system, economy, society, religion etc. One large same chunk of people spread over multiple countries which happened during the colonial period. This sameness is almost non-existent in emerging powers like China, India, Indonesia, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, etc. So, Asia will never be united because these countries will put their own interest first rather than collective interest so Asia will be more divided than united. The most likely scenario of the western decline is when immigrants replace white population and indians, chinese, arabs, africans together take over the western political institutions and change them to make the world more equitable and less hegemonic. Israel gaza issue is the perfect example. If non-whites would have been in charge of the white house, Israel would have never been able to do war crimes against the Palestinians.

[@JameBlack]

Unlikely to happen, first of all Norther Indians ot Iranians are basically Europeans, they speak roughly the same languages and they religiouns have many commonalities with Europe. In some sense they were colonized by Europeans but back in the day, in 2 millenia BCE. So we have basically China and the REST, China is the most distinct culture in the world.

[@hehe-mq2bk]

Well I'm glad immigrants are having more. Voices in the West like Europe, America, and AUS....these people when u look at the global scale are the minorities of the world... I think it's time we take that power and spread it to the majority. The future will be brighter

[@snoopysnoops007]

I think the power of technologies and information & technology transfer between these nations is huge. As someone who visits Pakistan very often, there is a great deal of trade, language exchange and business between the Pak and China sides. Situations like Palestine, Ukraine and Taiwan just drive the other fully sovereign Asian countries together (apart from US vassals)

[@privacyhelp]

You seem to forget that all the WW's started because fellow Europeans were at odds.

[@ZhenYae]

@@JameBlack Indians are Anglo SAXONS, we get it,

[@user-sf6bq2gn4h]

Correct l agree with you, the century of the dragon 🐉

[@user-sf6bq2gn4h]

The first speaker is a ✨ star

[@vanveakrin276]

Chinese Rail system is changing into Nitrogen Maglev which will run at 700 km / hour minimum... thus the Chinese Nitrogen Maglev system will reduce the use of jet engine..

[@anthonyng8817]

Why not change the title to "The downfall of the West "?

[@ramanbull]

I don’t quite understand their point of view, I have four sample viewpoints: 1. What is Technological innovation？ Transforming new technologies into productivity, and then copy them into everything that we need! 2. China find three important keys Infrastructure New energy and Artificial intelligence 3. China has a complete manufacturing environment 4. Healthy living environment .

[@felixf.3392]

It is unrealistic for the USA and its allies to catch up with the global South in terms of production capacity and thereby save their world order for the following reason: the old industrialized countries have outsourced their production capacities to the developing countries. The reason for this was that they wanted to generate the greatest possible profit for shareholders through low wages. As a result, the ruling class has placed itself at the forefront of value creation without letting the population share in the profits. For this reason, the old industrial nations are not producing steel and are closing coal mines. Because their industry is no longer competitive with developing countries due to their strong currencies and high wages. For this reason, Western economies can no longer exploit their production potential. That is why Russia, whose arms budget is ten percent as large as that of the USA, produces five times as much artillery. The ruling class in America and Western Europe wants to save a world order that has created the very problem described above. That is impossible.

[@dougspray7160]

Goodness gracious. I have only viewed the first few minutes but where is a Chinese Professor or similar on this panel. Have you people viewed Chinese discussions on world problems, always a good mix of intelligent participants from China, America, India, Singapore Asia generally, sometimes Europeans, etc. For your and your viewers education involve Chinese Professors and Chinese Pundits on these types of debates.

[@Youevilpeoplewillpay]

Exactly!!

[@appsb4537]

Do you have anything you'd recommend? It's genuinely difficult finding discussion in Britain that isn't like this.

[@Youevilpeoplewillpay]

@@appsb4537 All of the western panels pretty much suck!

[@KausikGupta-lv7ho]

JUNGLE is winning against GARDEN 😅 South vs West

[@Liboch]

Garden went to rob jungles for hundreds of years. 😂

[@finestrellacaustica]

If biodiversity is key for a resilient future, jungle is better than garden. All the way.

[@hehe-mq2bk]

@@Liboch and yet the garden falls to. Chaos while the Jungle remains strong, rooted, and deep

[@SophiaY95]

what

[@lisashung9442]

Of course! You’ve unintentionally got it right actually ……😂

[@davidw1576]

I am disappointed to see Asia Society/Oxford had such low level (almost to a point of naive and ignorant) debate, especially on the opposition side and that John Lee is just a total loser

[@user-wd3gt9dw5z]

This squirell in a wheel model pushes to give a single question, what kind of shape will provide rise of gdp. Most advanced studies suggest the regionalization answers that question in comparably satisfaying way for next decades. Comparably.

[@vanveakrin276]

The Thai High Speed train is fully booked for the next Few weeks ... thousands of Chinese are entering Lao for the Thai market daily . .. the Thai is converting their Thai pick up and car productions into electric with Chinese helps . .

[@waichui2988]

This is a debatable topic? You can debate how far can Asia rise. Once they are at your level, they would live happily ever after under your command? If their economy is as big as yours, or bigger, if their technology is as advanced as yours, or better, they prefer to have no voice and any affairs?

[@lipingwang9010]

I would be surprised if the pair who argued in favor of the motion would win in a western educated dominated audience. I would hope that it’s not a case of misplaced confidence for the winning team.

[@geechan4744]

Scale: 1945-2012 US with roughly 4% of world population and 25% of world GDP, led 6 % of world population (Euro+Japan +S Korea and others) to prosperity and collective security. China’s model is quite different. It is a skewed developing country, offering assistance to almost anyone (those tempering the One China Policy need not apply).

[@priyasinha7590]

I would imagine a new world order needs to be seen through multiple lens , not just economic and investment driven growth but also military power, law and order and civil stability within countries. World order would structurally change and reform but not become polarised to any one region anymore unless there are multiple other crisis (Covid like which is not regionalised but has global impact) which forces the shift. Also - China and India both are leading the Asia story however one wouldn’t let the other gain the superior status due to long driving rivalry between the two nations which has a complex and difficult historical geopolitical relationship.

[@pcstar123]

The debate voting results shows those voting lives in a different universe!

[@Theactualclips]

So basically they aren’t arguing that things aren’t moving away from Europe. They’re arguing on where the change would go to… and if it would change the order of the world in general. Both sides…

[@vanveakrin276]

Indonesia people are coming up in the consuming market , so are the Indian consumer population....Thai and Vietnamese populations want to improve Their living standard , the CHINESE output will help these nations in ASEAN to achieve their desires..

[@vanveakrin276]

Other nations are not developing the future Robots like in China.. especially for Auto production and ships and train productions...

[@yongchen8204]

nonasians talk about what kind of lifes, issues and their norms people in asia should behave, live and aspirate according to white people. the panel reflects that. do these so called young experts know what people in asia need, desire, want and live about their daily life? probably not!

[@knowledgepower839]

Asia is being discussed but their is no direct Asian representation 😂😂

[@eufinn9943]

Julia Ganter's group lost the debate from the beginning because they failed to define what the West Rule Based Order was. Of course, then it is difficult to argue why that order had to be kept and would not be changed. Arbigael's group seized it and immediately pointed the rule based order was actually an U.S. centered order. Julia's group could neither deny it nor defend it.

[@ibungothangjam524]

Is John Lee from taiwan? 🤔 Just curious.

[@phil20_20]

How about a bigger international co-operative? I'm thinking, "International" won't be isolated to Asia, or "The West", which really is an archaic concept in itself. Free nations are not limited by their geographic locations as malevolent dictatorships are. We are already expanding beyond ancient regions of "East" and "West."

[@graceantonio3573]

THE LADY OF THE FIRST TEAM TO SPEAK, I LIKE HER LAST WORDS "WE CAN LIVE IN THAT WORLD OR LIVE IN DENIAL" AH! ALELUAH!!

[@grouchypatch9185]

Is this really an "Asia Society"?

[@ttc1661]

The opposition (right side) are talking gibblish , they don't debate to the point, just want to cloud out audience and divert attention ! 😂

[@user-ne6ok4xw3q]

How many new countries will be formed out of yugosalavia type states in Asia??

[@l3eatalphal3eatalpha]

There already is one emerging. It is Yellen doing the flying.

[@MgWynn]

The first lady and her partner are well informed and knowledgeable. As an Australian, I believe harmony is much more favorable than warmonger like the US and allies.

[@vanveakrin276]

Apple 🍎 iPhone is getting BEIDOU AI into their Next iPhone

[@poorchef1895]

Maybe ,. maybe not. Maybe they will sign Google Gemini, or even OpenAI's ChatGPT

[@sansin6250]

Too little too late for Apple! The Chinese are moving away from Apple products. The Chinese smartphones are every bit as good, if not better, than the latest iPhone. That's why Apple is desperate for new markets.

[@ZhenYae]

@@sansin6250 Soon Harmony OS will take over..

[@Steve-so7uk]

​@@sansin6250in my country Indonesia , the smartphone markets is dominated by Huawei, Xiaomi, OPPO etc and Samsung ...Apple will be slowly replaced and same will happen to Tesla.

[@sansin6250]

True, but only in China, South East Asia, parts of middle-east and Africa. Apple will still be king everywhere else.

[@paishiva3175]

These are suppose to be experts but I do not see any expertise in here. China is tanking as we speak but both the sides are clueless! This is really pathetic to put it mildly!

[@ZhenYae]

China tanking must be putting fear into the Anglo Saxon Indians...right, that the Collective West wants to contain China.😁😁

[@ensteffo]

"China is tanking" Yet it has the highest growth of the worlds top economies. China has been "tanking" for 30 years while doubling their economy many times during this time so western, Indian and Japanese talk of China "tanking" is like Iraq WMD`s. Its wishful thinking and propaganda in the hopes of influencing western capital policy, but BRICS is already larger than the G7 coupled with the majority of the world having substantially larger trade tied with China than with NA or EU.

[@kimchiba4570]

China is tanking ... Indeed .... Their manufacturing is 11 times India .... What happened .. You drank too much weed laced curry ?

[@kmich7660]

Believe we are up to our necks on Asia rise or otherwise. Let's have on West rise, decline or otherwise. What about Africa?

[@worldnews2660]

China Rise, Asia Rise and Africa also Rise.

[@blahblah-yx7bl]

africa is doing well with help with China

[@eliotanderson6554]

India grew 8.3% in 2023-24 India build most highways and expressways under nitin gadkari he broke 8 new guiness world records in infrastructure building I see india slowly climbing up the supply chain so ...yeah thats there most indias would choose trump over china 😂

[@ubaka1979]

He made sure he didn't mention Russian though Chinese are involved, meanwhile the only country that's clearly breaking down the so called unipolar World order right now we know in the physical status is Russian federation is 😅😅😅

[@heavenbright2342]

I do not think Julia and John believe their position. They just have to take that side of the debate because otherwise there is no debate.

[@micahgetz872]

People are hating on John Lee, but in the argument "Will Asia's rise lead to a New World Order", you HAVE to ask... well, will Asia's rise lead to an end to existing world order: borders, UN, World Bank, SWIFT, WTO, NATO. You also HAVE to establish whether Asia's rise is the catalyst for change in the existing world order, which is why Julia Ganter references a middle powers group that John Lee points to existing since WWII- and I find that convincing.

[@micahgetz872]

Meanwhile, in their closing remarks John Delury defines the current world order as the post cold-war US unipolar moment, which I find less convincing as a definition for the "world order", but which we can all agree has ended (and perhaps only lasted from 1991-2001).

[@surmacjen3490]

It's called Asia society, It's debating whether Asia will lead the new world, but all except one of the debaters are not Asians, the one Asian in the debate is arguing against Asia. WTF is this?

[@baghchehmehtar]

John Lee was the greates debater. Well done!

[@richiesd1]

Why not? Nothing lasts forever.

[@rolandwong9306]

The concept of “world order” is Eurocentric; it was most relevant when European nations colonized much of the world and fought among each other. Asian countries, on the other hand, do not share the sentiments of Europeans (and their descendants, including the US). Asians are more harmonious, family-oriented, and less direct. The debate on “Will Asia's Rise Lead to a New World Order?” is an oxymoron. The words “Asia rise” and “New World Oder” contradict each other. Perhaps a better debate is whether “Will Asia’s rise lead to a more peaceful and prosperous world than the status quo?”

[@ZhenYae]

Good one. Too western centric of a topic to be discussed with Asians. Too much of a Western philosophy and approach to life and living for too long that has brought only wars, mayhem and misery for the world.

[@jjian5]

Here too early. Where is the comments?

[@jwhan2086]

Soooooooooooooooooo ..............What does it mean by "the World Order?" In this sense, I like Prof. John Delury's approach to the motion, even though I arrive at a different answer to the question.

[@leondee918]

The failure of the West to realize that the world has changed is really staggering. It been decades that the West is slowing down while the Asian countries especially China are advancing faster and faster. Like it or not, that's the fact

[@zzzzzsleeping]

The world learned not to put your apples in one basket. It is crucial for Foreign investment and supply must be diversified not only in China but should be spread out to balance the distribution of wealth. This way, it's good for the world and we can call it the real order "globalization".

[@vanveakrin276]

Apple cannot develope AI systems for electric cars nor for future iPhone for satellite communication...so Apple 🍎 is negotiating to use Chinese Beidou AI for Future Apple 🍎 iPhone production...

[@vanveakrin276]

It will depend on the Future sales of C919 and C929 . which will replace Boeing and Airbus

[@vanveakrin276]

Which country has the volume of consumer population to demand mass output for a New product .???......Only the Chinese .. the Chinese has the consumer population to move New products..

[@robertseaborne5758]

One only has to google and compare the respective GDP (PPP) numbers over the past decade to learn that China's productive force and 'socialist market economy' is proving to be more successful than America's 'free market system'. Moreover, socialism with Chinese characteristics is also demonstrating that it has distinct production and supply chain advantages over a relatively cumbersome privately owned profit driven Military Industrial Complex (MIC) of NATO+ countries. China by comparison, having rapidly developed a state owned purpose driven MIC can now be more confident than most other nation states about defending its borders and people. If Americans are going to be serious about MAGA, they will need to replace their somewhat dated profit driven socio-economic form of governance and MIC with more sophisticated forms; forms that could be achieved within a socialism with American characteristics.

[@RaguRaghupathi]

One does not have to be a rocket scientist to see through the wishful thinking of those debating against the proposition. They cannot imagine the western world - except the US - taking a back seat in the next decade!!

[@waiyinliew7031]

judging from the opening statements from both sides , the one against have ALREADY lost the debate

[@chakradharmahapatra1958]

Cyclicity is the rule of the game of rise and falls of nations. Rest are all noise.

[@bertranbelzor9037]

That Caucasian woman keeps talking on behalf of Africa. I wonder what gives her that authority to speak on my behalf. I wonder what gives any Caucasian the right to talk on behalf of Africans.

[@Gaiafreak6969]

This was fixed, the audience was stacked

[@4-SeasonNature]

First speaker: Yes, Asia's (B's) rise will diminish the west's （A's) influence. Second speaker, Yes, but C's rise will help B to diminish A's influence. Third speaker, second speaker's points are kind of irrelevant to the debate. The current unipolar world order is already going down hill. Fourth speaker, Asia's rise is already creating a new world order which will actually rebalance - reshift current world order. Are the first-third speakers and the second-forth speakers in agreement or against each other?

[@abdullahhakan1]

For 40 years time, each year 140.000 chinese students have been getting masters, phd educations from reknown USA ivy leauge universities with full bursary from USA bursary service. From Turkey only 20.000 extreme successful alumnis have been getting bursaries from american normal universities, not from ivy leauge universities like Mit, Harvard, Wharton, Carnegie Mellon, UCLA, University of Southern California, Boston University, Stern nyu, Penn State , Urbana Champagne İllinois State , Stanford univ. etc. İvy leauge ones.

[@Therhythmofthemachines]

Its like asking Chinese students are "Europeans" all bent on "sustainability"?

[@user-kh1tj8vx6v]

Me presenté como un amigo más de ellos entonces ya van mis programado el chino wales

[@enghongong]

Julia forgets that Africa and Brazil are looking to China for leadership in economic, infrastructure and technology development. In other words the rise in Asia, in particular China has brought the rise in Africa and Brazil. Not the other way round. She is amateurish in understanding of world's trends and the direction the world is going. John Lee, well, what can I say. A person who doesn't seem to read or get his facts right about technology and geopolitical realities centred around China. He is totally detached from reality. Amazing how a person like him can be a consultant for the future as he can't even get the present right. Good grief.

[@haridasshenoy8334]

I am tired of listening to rules based world order. What are they? Who makes them?

[@wowyzaoy]

I question the authenticity and understanding of Asia from the above panel of "Asian experts".

[@user-kh1tj8vx6v]

Helov muy buenos días exelenticimos panelistas mi history es gue yo me integre con unos vacacionistas en Canadá y ellos eran chinos y coreanos

[@user-kh1tj8vx6v]

Y de ayi salieron del Canadá ysde fueron a asentar en india ayi también me donaban desde ayinose cuánto pero ellos comenzaron a meter sbicomnes y me decían donando monedas ende criptón y desde ayi se acresento todas las criptón y se Rego entodo el mundo porgue tardes pues conocí a anbeshi hain y con ellos me presenté yme correspondían y les dije gue programaban para bicompero nose dime segian abonando. Pero iba cresiendo la cantidad

[@user-kh1tj8vx6v]

Ypor eso Canadá entro en ese proyecto porgue ayi me Registraron para tomarme las primeras criptón monedas y ayi se distribuyó las primeras criptón monedas

[@FrancoisMouton-iu7jt]

It has allready. The minute the oposing party went to "climate change" she lost the debate.

[@xushenxin]

I feel very annoying to hear stupid people talking. I would run as far as possible from debating. It is very bad form of finding the truth.