Is This The Future of Wooden Boat Building? | Building Temptress Ep3

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- In this video -
Is this the future of modern wooden boat building? In this video I am cutting the parts for the first frame, assembling them on the frame construction table and then trialling a system that I have never seen done before!
I return the frame to the CNC machine and 3D carve it in a two sided operation that will pre cut all the bevels and notches within the frame, massively speeding up the rate at which I will be able to assemble this boat down the line.
I like to think that this could be how wooden boat building might look in the future, perhaps this is a system that will allow more companies to begin integrating wooden boat building in a financially viable way and reduce the amount of horrible fibreglass boats that are being built!
But, it's not just available commercially, as home boat building still remains very much at the heart of what I do, I am making these plans available to buy so that you can build this at home as well if you want! Check out the links below to find the plans.
- Project sponsors -
I want to say a huge thank you to the following sponsors that are helping to reduce the materials cost for me on this build in order to help me get things moving! Current project sponsors are:
www.sykestimber.co.uk
wessexresins.co.uk/west-system/
www.epifanes.com/introduction
www.robbins.co.uk
#buildingTemptress
Chapters:
0:00 Intro
0:59 Cutting solid wood parts
10:11 Glueing up frame 1
25:32 CNC carving frame 1
38:09 Looking at the frame and what's next
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[@billradford2128]

A Finnish guy on YT channel 'Arctic SeaCamel' is building a 50ft yacht using similar CNC techniques. He carved the 2 sides of his stem in the same way you have shaped the edges of your frame. He worked right through the Finnish winter which makes the job a LOT harder! Both of you are pushing the boundaries of wooden boat construction. Well done.

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

A few people have mentioned him so I have just checked out his channel recently and he’s doing some really cool work!

[@stewkingjr]

@@DanLeeBoatbuilding Especially because he engineered and built the CNC router (mostly) himself.

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

Yeah that’s awesome. Definitely not something I’d be able to do!

[@Chris-bg8mk]

Hey Dan, GREAT work! I'm a former machinist and I can almost guarantee you're getting chatter leading to the surface imperfections and possibly most of your breakout problems as well. This would largely be due to the long unsupported runs of material in between the four hold down points. I'd recommend packing under the whole run, and applying a half dozen clamps or so interior to each run. Make the material "rigid" and you'll reduce vibration/chatter and get much better finish, hopefully also reducing the breakout. Climb milling is probably the best bet, but you can experiment with conventional. Also, try a new milling cutter, not the one that trimmed that clamp. 😃

[@markpalmer5311]

Maybe some pieces of rigid polyiso insulation as sacrificial support?

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

Yes it sounded as though I was getting this as well when it was running. This is the smallest frame, others have a deck beam run of almost 8’ so I’ll need to improve support on them for sure! The cutter I used was new but it’s long with quite a thin shank (8mm). Might try a larger solid ball nose next time. I can use anything up to 10mm as the parts are designed to have a minimum radius of 5 in any given place. I’ll add all this to the refinements list for frame 2 👍

[@testi2025]

If you have the time, use a flat end mill to remove bulk of the material, leaving like 0,5mm for the ball end mill. This way the tip of the ball end mill is not trying to remove material. If you think about it, the closer you get to the tip, the lower is the surface speed of a ball end mill.

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

@testi2025 yeah I think I’ll try this, doing the next one tomorrow 🤞

[@giacomodante614]

you're ALWAYS the best young boat builder that i know. as well as being, and this is rare, an extremely pleasant person. put the two together and you'll understand why I can't not follow your channel.

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

Thank you 🙏

[@nutsmcflurry3737]

This reminds me of an elderly gentleman that was a violin maker. He was one of three brothers that were makers. His difference is that when useable, he would remove most of the wood with power tools, this was before cnc router tables. In the maker competitions he would enter, there were many detractors of his working style. He wasn’t being true to the craft, by not doing everything by hand. There were some that even wanted him banned from the competition. With a smile he handed me the previous weekends 1st place winner.

[@tl4ever262]

I'm impressed by your fusing of modern tooling with old school materials.

[@garyengelman7867]

I've always wondered why more people weren't doing this, I suppose because it's not traditional. Coming from an industrial design background this is a very good technique to use CNC equipment. In fact have helped a few boat builders, canoe builders and kayak builders do this. The hard part is actually modeling the parts before you can cut them. Easy to do if you are proficient and CAD work. It's interesting there are some things about wood that no matter what you do you just can't get around. Absolutely brilliant, you've given me a lot of food for thought.

[@lionelfournier]

43 minutes, what a treat! 👍😃

[@svlamancha9877]

Great episode Dan. Another plastic you could try is a roll of carpet protection film it’s slightly tacky so sticks down to a work table really well. Looking forward to more frames👍

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

That’s a good idea, I had to tape this stuff at either side. Carpet film would be easier 👍

[@Eistier]

Nicely done! I'm not much of a wood worker and certainly not a boat builder, but i am a mechanic and have done CNC work for a few years, so i've got a few suggestions: For the first machining operation in the video i would suggest to zero your tool on the table, rather than the work piece, that way you can be certain that the clearance to the table will be what you set it to. As you said: the raw wood is somewhat uneven and twisted, probably not enough to matter in this case, but it's good practise. There are M10 bolts (ISO 4762) that have a bit of a smooth shaft below the head and before the threads start, those would allow for a more precise registration. Thought you might have to shorten them a little if you want the smooth portion of the shaft to have sufficient length as well as it might be a very tight fit. If your CNC is able to go a little bit beyond the table lengthwise you could mount the frame upright on the side of the table and machine the deck notches from the top. I guess that is a big IF since i have only seen that option on homemade machines so far.

[@andrewclarke1077]

Superb evolution of your processes on this beautiful boat project. As you say this method should drastically assist down the line so long as extremely accurate frame positioning will be the key and it will be very interesting to see this approach develop. You always take great care and demonstrate your work really well to camera. Can’t wait to watch this progress 👍🏻

[@brucemitchell5637]

Great seeing old technology married with modern technology! Can't wait to see the final product!

[@danieldonaldson8634]

you should catch up on Arctic Seacamel, a guy called Panu in Finland, who is about three years ahead into a project to build a 50 foot yacht, using CNC, plywood and a very complete cad model.

[@the-naked-sailor]

...lolololololoo I just wrote the same thing!

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

Yes I did check out his channel this week after someone mentioned it in the comments in my last video. I’m looking forward to watching some of his videos 👍

[@the-naked-sailor]

@@DanLeeBoatbuilding not only is he building his 50ft sailboat by himself, he erected his "shed", and built his own cnc! He's an incredible guy.

[@markpalmer5311]

Dan, very exciting development and I can see many comments support your thesis. To me, this is one of the most valuable project series on boatbuilding. I think you’re going to make very artistic boats so much more accessible to individual hobbyists and professionals, alike.

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

Thanks Mark. It feels like this is part boat building project part r and d development program!

[@mattiasfagerlund]

I've often wondered why no-one cuts the bevels on the cnc - very cool to see you do it! I use 60w laser for my experiments, and that certainly can't cut bevels. I suspect you'll have bevels sloping both ways on some of your stations? Should be possible to cut by flipping the frame, though. One thing I would say, with regards to alignment issues, is that if you built the raw frame with more margins on it and let the final passes trim it to size, the alignment would be less crucial? Wouldn't help with strongback alignment, but I'm sure you'll come up with some cool systems for that also...

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

Yes, some of the notches bevel in two directions and so the machine does a bit of each from either side. That’s another reason that showing this with 2D cad files would be very difficult. Building the frame oversize initially and trimming down to size would definitely be the best way to go accuracy would be pin point and everything would be on the same reference. However… that would require me to rework all of the stock part sizes which is a ton of work that I don’t want to do right now. Maybe something to consider for the next boat I kit though.

[@peterritchie3318]

Delighted to see you finally building full scale, now all you have to do is overtake Polymerman Boatbuilding 😉 go Dan! Keep up the excellent work!

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

He has quite a head start on me, not sure I'll catch up anytime soon as I'm only able to put about 2 days a week to this right now. Hopefully I'll be able to scale things up though soon!

[@KlingonCaptain]

Anything that speeds up work without sacrificing quality is potentially life changing.

[@chrisgardner3606]

Try useing masking tape around the perimeter of your solid wood board to the spoil board creating a gasket. As long as you don't cut thru the tape and loose your vacuum that board won't move and your not gonna run into any clamps.

[@lionelfournier]

Yet another excellent video Dan! Had been wondering for some time (during the 1/4 scale build) when you’d come around with CNC machining those bevels and pockets 😀. Clearly adapting to grain orientation will require tweaking the tool paths and is a step up in mastering the CAM software. Very well done sir! Looking forward to the large frames, to see how you’ll fit them on the bed of your machine and how you’ll work around chattering issues.

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

Thanks! Yes big frames will be interesting, frame 9 in particular, as it’s angled within the boat, notches are doing all sorts of funny things in that one. It’s a big frame too but they will all just about fit on the machine luckily.

[@user-oj4xh8cg2l]

Brilliant! some decades ago (...) I learned bit of woodworking from an old mechanics who was building his own aircraft (a Jodel D9), and he prided himself in keeping with the plan to the tens of mm... he used to call that "wooden mechanics".

[@Polymerman]

Amazingly cool!

[@danosburn80]

I was planning to do something very much like this back in 2018 when I was in school for CNC machining. we had acquired a shop bot and I was tasked with learning how to use it. we were even using Fusion 360 as well! unfortunately the project never came to fruition. very cool to see someone with all the resources necessary doing it!

[@mogcanalboats]

Just watched your wonderful construction and cutting. The boat is as lovely as could ever be designed for a run about as we say here. Your treatment of the build is so very well planned with meaningful dialog to fit the video. In 1986 I had used a Prime Computer and their solids model software Medusa (by Cambridge Interactive Systems in the UK). to design the MOG Canal Boat. Much of what you have done brings back so many memories and prompts me to say keep up the great work. Looking forward to all your next videos.

[@heinvosloo45]

Excellent project. Looking forward to the rest.

[@CJBruin-wj4vh]

Undoubtedly this is the way to build boats in future but actually also nowadays, thanks very much very much inspiring brgds

[@andreasmeerkamp8627]

Great new technique and the frame looks like a piece of art

[@johnnyknap]

Fascinating project and think it’s going to be a game changer by the looks of it. I am going to be fitting out some bunkers and lockers on my 28 ft steam launch . I have bought a Einstar scanner to get a 3 D cad model of the boat with a view to using this to design the structures . May the just use it to get plans to manually cut out the components. Your videos are exactly what I needed to help me so glad I found your channel. You are a true craftsman.Many thanks!

[@glassgoat9601]

Pretty amazing to see the complex bevels created that way!

[@billrose6699]

Hey Dan, nice work. Have you considered 10mm shoulder bolts rather than full threaded for your 3D profiling hold down and alignment? I wouldn’t be surprised if the errors you found are related to undersized thread diameter on the M10 bolts you showed. A shoulder bolt would locate far more accurately. Alternately, sleeves for accuracy and a M6 through bolt for hold down.

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

Yes I would have preferred a shouldered bolt, couldn't get any in time to do this first frame but I'll get some for the next. Should improve accuracy a little!

[@InventorInvestor]

Nice work. Thanks for the video.

[@snowgorilla9789]

Technoligy put to great old school use. Very well done

[@blainerawdon6545]

This is a great video of a very ambitious project. Also, many helpful suggestions in the comments! You are applying much expertise and thinking in exchange for much less hand work. One minor suggestion: At the beginning of the video when "onion skinning" down to the part cut line, there _may_ be a better way. This would be to face off one side of the plank so it is flat. Flip it and face it off to the desired thickness. Cut the part to a depth less than the part thickness as you have done. Remove the part from the CNC. Use a hand-held trim router with a flush-cut trim bit with the guide ball bearing at the tip. The bit has to be the same diameter as the CNC router bit. The ball bearing rides in the groove cut by the CNC and the trim router bit cuts the remaining depth. I have used this method recently on CNC parts cut with a 1/4" bit. It worked very well. In my case, I was trimming partial-depth tabs. But in your case, you can just cut the whole thing. I hope this is helpful. Thank you very much for your stimulating and excellent video!

[@augwest101]

Very Impressive and a great idea

[@MidnightMaker]

You are revolutionizing CNC boat building! I'm incorporating all of this into my next build of a Welsford Navigator.

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

Awesome 💪

[@oheebatch_algorytmu]

This technique has been discussed on many boatbuilding forums many times and thread were always full of naysayers. Dan is prooving them wrong. I see 5 axis router in the Dans future. This build will be splendid learning experience and future plans will profit from that.

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

There will always be naysayers and certainly with CNC, it is a very love hate thing that usually attracts the comment that "cnc isn't woodworking". I am pleased to see that all the comments on this process so far have been positive though, I wasn't sure how it would have been received. A 5 axis router would be a real game changer for doing this process. Big money though I'd expect!

[@farmerjimbob67]

Hi Dan I use carpet protector to keep my bench clean, like the palette wrap but one side is just slightly tacky, screw fix sell it.. great video fella

[@dwaynekoblitz6032]

Centuries of wooden boat buildings just rolled over in their graves. He did WHAT?? That's pretty impressive for your first try. By the time you get to 12 you'll have it mastered.

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

Hopefully they are not cursing me for destroying traditions but happy that I’m moving things forwards 🤞

[@ShipHappensUK]

Excellent Dan! Looking forward to following this build!

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

Thanks 😁

[@NickSchade]

Nice work Dan. Have you thought about making the individual parts a bit oversized on the edges that will get milled in the final assembly to assure that all surfaces are machined even if there is a minor misalignment? Will you be rounding over the edges of the stringers to match the inner radius from the ball-nose or square up the notches?

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

Yes, had I thought of including this process further back down the line then a slightly oversized frame stock would definitely be the way to go. I only decided to do this recently so that’s the reason for starting with the already dimensioned frame. Most of the timbers running through the frame will have rounded corners actually so they won’t really need squaring up.

[@ZazzanPirate]

First time I watched you, thanks for sharing your experience

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

Welcome along, great to have you here 👍

[@stephenwhite4257]

I'm a CNC machine of 35 yrs. For accuracy on your 3D assembly origin, I would suggest adding the 10mm bolt hold down hole to your program for position accuracy and alignment and use one of the bolt holes as your pgm origin.

[@stalldrom]

When milling the frame bevels, try milling a pocket of the shape of the frame into your spoilboard. Then you got perfect registration on full support under the frame. Then clamping can be done from the inside of the frame.

[@user-yy4bv5mb4n]

Как всегда прекрасное видео. Система вакуумного удержания - отличная вещь!

[@ApexWoodworks]

Interesting concept!

[@rjwintl]

excellent quality control with the CNC !!! … is there an apparatus that could spray and coat all sides of the frame pieces with CPES or is that a process that still needs to be done by hand ???

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

I'd think that would still want to be done by hand really. Finishing can be done with CNC but it gets a little messy!

[@stephenwhite4257]

Also if you add the 4 10mm clamp bolt holes to the model ,when you flip the part over for machining the part will locate perfectly on the bolt pattern for the machining process. Also program the bolt patter into the table. Let the accuracy of the machine do the hard stuff.

[@michaelc.3812]

I just found your channel, and I’m intrigued for sure! I love what seems to be a high-tech approach to boat building, and I’m looking forward to watching your videos. Cheers! Oh, I visited the Cotswold two years back, and you live in a very beautiful part of the world.

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

Welcome aboard! Yes the Cotswolds is lovely, if we only had some more large lakes it would be perfect :)

[@ross.venner]

Definitely the present and future. Shane Greaves is building high performance racing dinghies in Australia using these techniques. His work was awarded the Wooden Boat Association of NSW's Hal Harpur Award for 2023. So far, he has built scow and skiff Moths, Herons and Rainbow Scows. Firebugs are in prospect as well. The technique produces wonderful fair hulls.

[@SirJohn2024]

Boat building 2.0... Impressive...😎

[@davidbarrett7424]

Robin’s Timber! Great place & my local go-to for ply & epoxy 👍

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

They are great 👍

[@kenlloyd3078]

I think you're right in assuming this process will place great demands on accurate placement of the frames in the building jig. Perhaps the building jig will also need to be assembled from CNC cut parts, using the frame assembly dowel holes as references? I'm keen to see how this turns out.

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

I am currently working on a CNC cut strong back so I will be rolling that out at some stage.

[@kenlloyd3078]

@@DanLeeBoatbuilding 👍

[@bertmacdonald337]

Of. course it`s the future! Surprised it took so long.

[@jorgeconcheyro]

wow, super interesting material, great job, well done. New sub;) Cheers from Buenos Aires!

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

Welcome aboard 👍

[@OriginalJetForMe]

Lucky your end mill survived! I lost a $160 Onsrud compression cutter to a hold down screw. I use composite nails now.

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

It’s never a nice feeling when you ruin expensive tools. Very early on in owning my machine I was breaking them 2-3 times a day just because I had thing setup soo wrong. That was a painfully steep learning curve! Like the composite nail idea 👍

[@billlambert2092]

Amazing work, Dan! But it must be said this will not be for your average builder (me) without the machine or knowledge required to run it. Having done rolling bevels on my fair share of frames and other boat parts, there is a certain satisfaction with getting the part out correctly, but I presume there is an equal amount for you when the programing works, the hold downs don't get chopped, and the final part comes out as planned. The time savings will be immense (though I have no idea how long the programing takes). This build will be a blast to follow. Cheers!

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

Yes, that is the reason I wanted to develop the original plan set to modernise things but keep it obtainable for the average builder. Someone is currently building one of these boats by cutting around paper patterns and I wanted that to be possible for people to do. With my build I am aiming to show the other side of the coin where if you are a CNC nerd with a machine in your shop then this is what can also be done 😁

[@per-goranborjesson2045]

if you have a thick plank that is screwed to the cnc table, the plank you have on top can be screwed underneath from the plank you later screw through the cnc table this solves your problems save all the cnc cutting mill and glue all the holes in the finished product what with must be done is to raise the cnc machine so that it runs freely and does not crash into what is to be cnc work

[@bananaas2]

Man, I'm so damned impressed! I've built many boats and I've lofted a number of boats on shop floors 40+ years ago.Did you loft the lines in a CAD program, which computer programs are you using? I'm using a CNC to build guitars. I'm drawing the instruments out in CAD as though I was lofting a boat. Great fun. Keep doing a great job.

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

Thanks! Yes the boat is fully 3D modelled, right down to the engine mounts! Michel the designer uses Key Creator for the hull design and I use Fusion 360 for the kitting work.

[@ianbruce6515]

I can see the fun of this type of boatbuilding--if you are doing all the CNC setup and milling yourself--but for all the other highly experienced builders of wooden boats, this is the reason for getting out of boatbuilding. We have built up considerable skills over many years and are now being asked to build wood cored glass boats--not even cold moulded, strip planked or double planked. The challenging handwork is being taken away from us and subcontracted out to a CNC shop. Lofting skills are no longer necessary-- even for the 17th century replica vessels we got to build a few years ago. I imagine double-sawn frames will be CNC milled too.

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

I don't believe this is the reason they are getting out of boat building but its rise is probably a bi-product of why they really are. We are in a competitive world, with rising costs and processes that are highly labour intensive (such as wooden boat building) do one of two things; 1. They become prohibitively expensive and only a select few are willing to pay the true cost for a quality product. 2. Alternatively they just die out because they are no longer financially viable and cheaper processes such as fibreglass production boats take their place. In my opinion this is not replacing all the skills of experienced builders, some of them perhaps. But if it is able to assist them in tipping the scales back in their favour, putting wooden boat building back on the table again then that has to be a good thing right? I hope so anyway. There will still be many elements in this build that require traditional skills which will continue to be passed on to others I hope.

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

Very good explanation of hold down principles and keeping parts in place with CNC work. My first thought would be to use wax paper on the clamping table. Did you not use it because of the dowels? Or is the plastic you used just better? Great work and looking forward to the rest of the build.

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

It was only really because the plastic was what I had lying around. I'm sure wax paper would work equally as well though 👍

[@OriginalJetForMe]

I think you might want to either reference off a feature(s) on the part, or use dowel pins to register the part onto the table; I think the M10 bolts had too much play to get the accuracy you wanted. If your CNC controller is good enough, you can use multiple registration points to account for rotation.

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

Yeah I wanted some shouldered ones really but couldn't get them in time. I'm making some refinements though for the next frame!

[@cristrigotti9933]

Way too cool!

[@alldaybrekkie]

Great video thanks. Im just wondering why you dont put a sacrificial board of some kind eg mdf, underneath the plank? then you could cut all the way through the main plank and your board underneath would be the one to take the extra depth in the cut?

[@nutsmcflurry3737]

You might look into the Brad nailers that use plastic brads, for holding pieces in place while the epoxy is setting up. I’ve seen them used to hold down stock on the cnc table also.

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

I have the plastic stapler which is great and I'll use that when I get to plank the boat. My gussets here are solid wood though so I thought using it would be risky and would probably end up with split parts.

[@thomasrichardson028]

Awesome video. Have you tried roughing cutting the bevels on the CNC first with an end mill and then complete a finishing pass with the rounded cutter? Should quicken your cycle time

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

Thanks, yes I think I will give that a go on the next one it should drastically reduce the load on the cutter for the final pass.

[@heyheyjc]

You could probably get more accurate registration by using dowel pins into reamed holes instead of bolts, which can easily leave 0.5mm or more of slop. Great ideas, and excellent video, thanks.

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

I was thinking this actually after playing the concept over in my head. I have some fluted dowels that give a really positive alignment when pressed into a hole. I think on the next frame I’ll use these to locate the frame and a different system to hold it down at more regular intervals 👍

[@heyheyjc]

@@DanLeeBoatbuilding I would use metal dowels, if possible. They're known and accurate dimension, so effectively remove one variable.

[@serdarbas8016]

Dan. I honestly suggest beveling on each individual piece. For an average CNC user like me, beveling a whole assembled frame accurately is close to impossible. I found beveling only important on forward frames (on batten extruding designs). But I would LOVED to have batten / stringer, keel notches CNC'ed on each frame. Those were the parts I made biggest errors. Also you have you thought about offering already CNC'ed parts for your designs as this seems to be the biggest barrier to entry.

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

I haven’t done the CAD work on all frames yet so I’ll try that approach for some other frames. It would still require a two sided operation though, especially for deck beams but the risk of ruining a part would definitely be less. I can offer pre cnc’d kits but most of the demand seems to be overseas at the moment and when it comes to shipping kits the cost makes it no longer viable.

[@serdarbas8016]

@@DanLeeBoatbuilding Have you thought about frames in marine plywood? 18mm x 2 so back and front side of frame epoxied together so no need to turn pieces for beveling. It would be also way cheaper. Even frames can be in only 2 pieces. Since battens are extruding, endgrain is not an issue too since no screw is used. 20x faster to cnc, 5x cheaper and puzzled connection between all parts? Also all parts may be encapsulated on sheet.

[@serdarbas8016]

@@DanLeeBoatbuilding Also if you can manage cnc spiled pieces, it would cut the production time of the boat by 30% minimum. A man can only dream 😆

[@allenroberttucker]

A few ideas. If you make the joints self aligning and interlocking rather than pure butt joints, you don’t have to align with dowels. If you make them slightly over sized, you can then machine out any alignment error during the second beveling operation. Locate with two pin holes on a single part as your datum. Reuse for each frame. You can also run a bearingless round over bit to round over the edges as well. Faster and no additional setup vs doing it by hand. Put some bracing under the unsupported sections during beveling to cut back on vibration. You can use brass screws to hold things down which are safer to accidentally machine, though heads break easily if you aren’t careful removing them.

[@michaelc.3812]

As an engineer, in school we did all of our calculations and our work in SI units (meters, seconds, kilograms). Yet as an American, we still use the traditional units of our cousins in England (inches/feet, seconds, pounds). And for many channels I watch, I sure appreciate that the content creators show the conversion numbers on the screen when talking units. I’d love to see that on your channel too, but I understand why you may choose not to do so.

[@BeesMj]

Would referencing the frame to the cnc bed not be able to use the reference lines you use of the assembly table, centre line and waterline. Would doing this then mean the frames aren’t just referenced to themselves but to each other? Amazing seeing this done like this though! Well done for pushing the boat out there as they say!!!

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

Yes that would be another option although waterline 1 sits quite high above the deck beam on most frames and so isn’t within the limits of my machine bed. The centreline would be a helpful reference to check against though 👍

[@alexscott5622]

Impressive! You need to add limber holes to the bottom frames.

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

You are right! I forgot them on this frame, not soo critical right up at the front but I'll add them in for the other frames 👍

[@mattivirta]

some slot to frame can mill if you have modified cnc table, can move frame part to 90 degree and mill top of frame all angle slot better. many has build cnc machine front edge table can move 90 degree vertical and bolt frame/wood to vertical to table, normal all mill horicontal.

[@keithianlocke]

Couple questions.... 1/ is there any reason why not to use small wooden dowels to locate the gussets when glueing, rather than screws/pins which are then removed? 2/ why not apply the bevel to the individual parts during initial cutting before assembly? At least a bevel gone wrong on one part would prevent a bevel gone wrong on a complete frame assembly.

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

Yes that could be done. I was hoping not to need any mechanical fasteners but when I glued up things all got a bit slippery which is why I added in some pins. I think I’ll look at drilling dowel holes in the gussets on the next frame. These could then be used in place of the pins. Bevelling individual parts could be done however it would still require a two sided operation for most parts. That means two setups for each part and there are circa 10-12 parts in each frame that need bevelling so it’s a lot more work to do them individually. I get the benefit of not potentially ruining a whole frame though, that would not be fun!

[@keithianlocke]

@@DanLeeBoatbuilding the other option with bevels is of course a 4 or 5 axis cnc. Great work though. And I do agree that bringing the traditional methods into the age of cnc machining is a positive thing. 👌 I'm loving your channel, especially the build episodes because I am captivated by your marylin slipper. Maybe one day I might be able to afford a build, both time wise as well as financially.

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

Yes a few more axes would transform what I'd be able to do here!

[@RenegadeADV]

That piece on the corner that broke out, if you could have found it bit of CA glue will put that back in there pretty much seamlessly

[@ArcticSeaCamel]

That IS the way to go. I would have done my frames this way if they would have fit in my machine. (Would need 5x3 meter machine bed! 😅) I did however my stem halves with similar method, only with 10mm steps. Maybe could have done the final shape but it would have taken several days to cut…

[@ArcticSeaCamel]

And I have to say, if I’d start this kind of project now, I’d get 6 axis CNC robot arm. Then it would be a breeze to make any kind of bevelling, notches or basically anything. With a steep learning curve involved of course. 😂

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

😆 you would have needed a monster machine for that! Luckily all of my frames will fit on my machine. The stem as well I think. Great channel by the way, I just discovered it this week after someone mentioned it in the comments on my videos. Looking forward to catching up on some of your videos 👍

[@ArcticSeaCamel]

@@DanLeeBoatbuilding Thanks! I've been following you for quite a while and actually I kind of took inspiration to my frame assembly table from your earlier builds! Thanks for that!

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

That's cool, great to hear I have sparked inspiration for others, sharing ideas and bouncing them off each other is how we all improve! It's great to see CNC finally being integrated into the wooden boat building world. I just watched your video on machining your stem.. that thing is huge! It came out great though 👍I am looking forward to doing the stem on this boat, it's quite complex, it has a stepped rabbet and lots of bevelled notches in it as well, it will be fun.

[@ArcticSeaCamel]

@@DanLeeBoatbuilding Yeah, the stem was quite an effort. And there was some thinking involved to get it done. I had to turn it around and plane to right thickness etc. The thing I'm bit uncertain every time is the z-values. The MDF spoil board seems to react quite alot of the changes in the moisture here. Although now when I have the insulation, the conditions here are much more stable. One issue I had was that there's not super accurate model of the stem. I just did it by making manual sections of the shape I had available. I think it's pretty good though. And it's probably the most complicated part of the whole boat. There's gonna be some other "shaped" pieces around the rudder. I might do something similar to them. We'll see.

[@capechronicler]

Can't you use wooden arms on the hold down clamps, then if the cutter hits it no damage done?

[@captcarlos]

Old Aussie shipwright and Machinest with CNC experience in metals and plastic here. Now almost only machining because I just don’t contort like I used to! I’m guessing that’s dark red Meranti, Lauan, Shorea, Philippine Mahogony. Lovely timber under finish, but. Generally only available as kiln dried. Too dry! I bet 6-8% moisture content. Aaand they fell it poorly causing all sorts of fell shake and other subtle faults. Carroty or brittle often. Your initial up & down cut parallel cutter was a sharp edge condition tool which is perfect for your first stage, I would have left more ‘green’ edge on the ‘non joint’ edges to be cleaned up in the final set ups. The glue up went well. I Always weighed as the old pumps were unreliable in the extream! Rather than relying on threads to position for the finish passes, I would suggest 2 or 3 dowel pins with the bolts holding only. For the bevel passes: A sharp edge condition HSS Ball endmill will have a positive cutting rake and be better than that cutter, which appeared to be a neutral or slightly negative rake tool. Climb cutting timber with a sharp HSS tool is the best to avoid tear out I believe. Harmonics were not your friend, rigidity of set up, not long unsupported sections, helps. I know you were saving the spoil board…. But multiple supports and clamps on the ‘inside’ would have cured this. Don’t get me wrong, I Loved it and what you are experimenting in is just fabulous! Fusion of old and new, bloody beautiful. Oh, be delicate when you bend the planks they’ll snap like a carrot, ask me how I know….

[@captcarlos]

And Subbed

[@benculley]

Hey Dan, very impressive as usual! What cam software do you use? I use Vectric Aspire. Cheers

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

Thanks! I am using Fusion 360 for this process.

[@pobbrett3244]

Hey dude have you considered using that cnc to cut yourself some “disposable” hold down clamps out of some wood or even treat yourself to some aluminium ones.

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

I hadn’t actually but now you’ve got me thinking 🤔

[@leonsplaylife]

The epoxy mixer dispenser did you build it?

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

No, it’s available to buy from West System.

[@stalldrom]

I’m no boat builder but a furniture maker so there is probably something I’ve missed, but why not run your boards trough a planer to get the sawn faced planed flat and even so the vacuum system works?

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

It’s because I’m getting 22.5mm parts out of a 25mm sawn board. Planing the whole board clean would leave me under size. The small parts would also not hold on vacuum which is why I am using an onion skin method and sizing afterwards.

[@NSResponder]

Looks like even one more degree of freedom would make a vast difference in carving time.

[@1975Per]

Wouldn't it be even easier to basically glue up one triangle block (not solid, juat slightly bigger than the final piece), and then one route both sides once? Much less assembly and less fiddly gluing, less alignment to do etc.

[@GI-AUS]

Sorry, mate, I missed the bit where you told us what timbers and ply you are using. What are they?

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

I'm using Utile here, two different plywoods, Sapele and Gaboon and I mention the types of them in the next Episode 4 video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/sIC2e6R4j9Nobs0

[@flyingmonkey3822]

What are those ratcheting clamps on the assembly table?

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

They are a multifunction table clamp made by Bessey.

[@ronweber4508]

Would it be worth it to clean that sandpaper with one of those erasers?

[@davidnonya7359]

what cnc machine you got there?

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

It's a Blue Elephant machine: www.elephant-cnc.com/

[@nickgreenwood2854]

Why didn't you dimension the board to before you put it in the cnc

[@regdor8187]

Your boat looks to me like a Lyman Islander....Lyman Boat Works, Sandusky , Ohio, USA....1950's....

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

It's quite different to that, you can see some more images of what it looks like here: danleeboatbuilding.co.uk/building-temptress/

[@user-sy4pc6wr8h]

how many days did it take you to put that part together ?????

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

It probably took me about a day to make this frame in total, that’s probably slower than normal due to the fact I’m filming everything though.

[@VEC7ORlt]

Ever heard about the law of headlines?

[@mattwilson8290]

I'm an old guy with lots of carpentry experience and I don't understand why someone would use epoxy to bond wood to wood instead of simply using a water proof wood glue like Titebond III for example. I'm not against epoxy. I've used it many times building custom aircraft interiors and it definitely has its uses but it's very expensive compared to wood glue which permanently bonds wood to wood just fine, especially with large flat surfaces like gussets. Is epoxy "more permanent" than waterproof wood glue?

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

Titebond III is a great glue and although it is branded as waterproof, I wouldn't consider it resistant enough for boat building, bearing in mind that epoxy is also incredibly resistant to oil and fuels. As the same epoxy is also used for coating, there are a lot of instances in which coating and bonding are combined in the same operation or at least have some crossover, hence the need for pre wetting most joints. When fully coated it will inhibit moisture content fluctuations within the wood components. I wouldn't think titebond would offer anywhere near the same properties as West System when it comes to coating and encapsulation.

[@dougaltolan3017]

Why make the gussets so precise if you're going to cnc finish the frame?

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

Only because I'm working from the original files that were sized for manual bevelling. Making an oversize set of parts would have meant significant re work to the plans.

[@dougaltolan3017]

@@DanLeeBoatbuilding Ahh.. I see. Still not fully embracing cnc, where they seem fond of whittling (yeah it's a dig at expensive cnc tools) down hundred kilo blocks of metal into a widget that fits in the palm of your hand.

[@stephancote4745]

I would plane before CNC then maybe even could vacuum hold

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

My vacuum wouldn't hold these board even if then were planed. The other issue it that when you cut right through solid wood boards, the integrity of the board quickly fails, especially with tightly nested parts and you end up with the whole lot falling to pieces.

[@dale5898]

Great videos.Even greater without the music.

[@stevenowell]

CNC opens a lot of doors

[@antoniiocaluso1071]

anyone using plastic brad gun nails, for their temporary joinery? Instead of removing them 🙂

[@SuperBallbagger]

Go pro on the router head plz

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

Will do on the next video 👍

[@barry.w.christie]

Some may say that this isn't proper woodworking, I say absolute rubbish, you are using the tools you have available to make the parts you require ... does using a power tool, using synthetic glues, using ready milled timber mean you aren't doing proper woodwork, no! Anyway, back to the subject of this video, brilliant, the amount of planning to produce this part must've been immense, and sharing how you achieved it will help others fulfil their own builds. You need to get rid of that crappy 2.5D CNC and get yourself a full 5-axis beast, no problem with angle slots anymore 🤣

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

I was expecting more comments like that to be honest but they’ve been surprisingly on side! Having a 5 axis machine would be a real game changer, I think one would cost me as much as the total boat project though 😫

[@barry.w.christie]

@@DanLeeBoatbuilding Well I'm glad to hear you haven't attracted that sort of viewer, there are so many of these type of people around today 👍 They watch then complain too much/not enough talking, that's not how you do it, it's only because you have expensive tools, this isn't the sort of stuff I want to watch on this channel etc. ... just unbelievable! I used to watch a channel where the gentleman made the most exquisite Japanese type joints, using only a saw, chisels and a basic type of mallet. There was one subscriber who did nothing but criticise him, it was sickening to read, bullying of the worst sort ... and of course the bully (was supposedly) a master of joinery so was allowed to do this, but of course didn't have their own channel showing their work! Fingers crossed, someone may offer you a five axis for some sponsorship 😁

[@ross82]

Hope you still give plenty of your blood sweat and tears for her soul.

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

Oh I will... when it comes to fairing that hull I'll be sweating and the CNC will be sat in the corner having a nap 😆

[@ironclay3939]

Been in the game - well retired now, Don't Like Westsystem. It fails in all the things it says it's good at - I've seen a westsystem fail after 15 years whereas in other areas where I used other glues they were not failing and I'm not arguing, the boat will flat and you'll get years of pleasure but compared to other products it will fail early.

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

I'd be interested to know the circumstances surrounding that failure. If all West System simply fell apart after 15 years they wouldn't be in business now. I've seen the extents they go to in making sure every batch is correct, consistent and traceable.

[@user-mw3ht5kp2p]

Hehe a step into the ball nose end mills. :p What kind of woods are you using ?? Ceder?? When you point out the ridge. there is no support under it. Its not the cutter its your wood. Dont know with your setup but i think you have vacuum. should make use of it few trough holes in the sacrificial board. Where you could just lay a piece of wood in when you do not use it but you could then make a exact height piece that fits under it and the vacuum hole goes trough that to sucking the wood onto the stand off. making your frame much more stable. Same with metal milling never mill on a overhang that is bigger then the thickness of your metal you are milling. Resonation is a B. You could also use to wooden triangles that you screw together so they span the wood up but the pole would be much better even for the future.

[@lebotnov66]

That looks like a copy of an antique boat I've lifted into the water near Ottawa, Canada! B-eautiful. I have to wonder why you wouldn't plane your boards before putting them on the CNC table which would eliminate your described issues with the vacuum? If this would reduce the thickness of the board too much, then purchase your boards which aren't finish-milled. In addition, purchase only properly dried boards. Your other option is to have a CNC machine which can do 3-dimensional work. Personally, I don't like the way your CNC machine is working/is designed. A CNC machine should be able to make clean cuts completely through a board if that's what's required.

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

I don't cut right through the board for the primary reason I mention in the video; to maintain the integrity of the board. Even if the board was planed smooth there is no way you could maintain vacuum hold down on the smaller parts sufficiently to cut a final finishing pass once the board was cut through. When cutting solid timbers like this board integrity is far less predictable than it is with an MDF or plywood sheet, once parts begin breaking loose from the vacuum the entire board can be ruined which I wouldn't risk with this premium Utile stock. Using the onion skin method I can guarantee that parts will stay put no matter their size.