Should I Epoxy Coat Wood? Everything You Should Consider

[@Robert-ny6xd]

Simply brilliant video. As an amateur boat builder, mainly strip kayaks this information is fantastic. I use WestSystem exclusively. Really appreciate the depth of the content and clarity of presentation. Thank you

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

Thanks, I'm glad you found it useful!

[@callummacaskill3247]

A well presented and informative video Dan, thanks for taking the time and effort to create and present this.

[@mattiasfagerlund]

I'm responding only to give you a boost in the algorithm, very interesting information on epoxy! But since I'm writing, I'd like to correct what was likely a slip of the tongue. The equator is indeed closer to the sun during part of the year, 0.001716% closer (according to chatgpt though it's often bad at math) during winter. However, during the Nordic summer the Nordic countries are tilted towards the sun. What limits the UV is the angle of the light - the same amount of light has to cover a larger area and the light travels through more atmosphere to get to the ground. I always find it interesting hos car paint on the top of cars in Florida or the Canaries can look like it's been totally burned to a crisp. That never happens here in Stockholm...

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

Yes you are right, I thought similar myself upon editing what I'd said. I'm sure the "equator effect" is not simply being closer to the sun but generally in a more directly exposed position year round. It's a long time since I studied that stuff at school 😆 I hadn't considered the angle and atmospheric filtration as a factor as well, more research needed on my part... still, another validation that the earth isn't flat at least 🤣

[@antoniiocaluso1071]

just epoxy-repaired an old djembe drum, where its' bowl and horn edges contained splits down from their edges. Epoxy was the way, which slipped into the small crevices easily. After, the drum...rang like a bell :-) its how one knows if the repair worked, by hitting the wood to hear it "ring", or "thud". I digress.... :-)))) I prefer a less-costly epoxy-brand for boat-building, etc. USComposites, WPB, FL, USA. amazing stuff!!

[@normaguerra6158]

I’ve built 2 wood bikes with this system with no issues, and because of the frame geometry of a bike you have to apply it mixed with a powder to reduce the “flowing “ characteristics of epoxy. Great experience and the best results and great video by the way 👍🏻.

[@kathrynoliver3434]

Thank heavens! I'm going to send this to my dear friend.We will have much less to argue about.

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

Happy to have helped ☺️

[@bobrosa427]

Excellent presentation Dan. I've been using this epoxy since 1974 and was a friend of Jan and Mead. Currently building a 25 foot Gent racer with a great amount of recycled Mahogany and white Oak. All bonded with West Epoxy.

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

Nice, I do like a racer! West System is pretty unbeatable really, consistently good, well tried and tested 💪

[@user-jx5xq7mx7z]

Very informative. Two things I learned. One, visual of water penetration. Secondly, very good info on how long and often different times of exposure and climates dictate how many coats may be needed.

[@andychurches7280]

I used this epoxy back in the 70s, when I worked at a boatyard making cold moulded yachts. Wood Epoxy Saturation Technique..

[@jeremiah1059]

Wow. Thanks Dan. This was a superbly in-depth and thorough explanation of the importance of epoxy.

[@amartel01]

Dan, thank you for this excellent video. I share with my group of amateur builders from Quebec (Canada).

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

I'm glad you liked it, thanks for sharing!

[@robburgess501]

Very useful - I'm just sealing/coating a brand-new tiller on my moored yacht, but I now understand how often I will (a) have to re-coat the tiller or (b) replace the tiller. I'm even thinking I might just forego the 'wood look' and use an epoxy seal, with a good UV resistant paint ... One minor point to correct, however - my boat is moored in Melbourne which is affected by the ozone hole (yes, it's still here!) so we get very fierce UV damage, including to our skin. I noticed this when I went to Queensland where I got less sunburned than I usually do in Melbourne. So the relationship between latitude and UV damage has variations.

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

That's interesting, I hadn't really heard the hole in the Ozone layer mentioned for years so I just presumed it was one of those ideas that people had given up on now 😆

[@todddunn945]

Very good presentation. I did think of one thing though. That is ease of refinishing when the coating system eventually fails. My experience, although limited, is that failed epoxy coatings are much more difficult to remove for refinishing than a typical varnish.

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

I’ve seen a lot of people say this but actually they can be removed very easily with a heat gun and a scraper. Maybe I need to add a tutorial on this to my list of videos to make.

[@kiteleyand]

Nicely done Professor Lee...I wish you were my chemistry teacher back in the day!

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

😆

[@glassgoat9601]

Nicely done and well explained. Thanks!

[@user-ef1gl5vb1s]

Excellent Dan. Very nice work and explanation. Brilliant.

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

Thanks Michel!

[@silvasimbabradman1579]

Brilliant 100%. Agree with others, thanks for your time & effort.

[@alangood8190]

Exemplary tutorial. Thanks for sharing.

[@MartynEverett]

You have missed one important use of encapsulation and that is making a soft surface hard as well as structural. An epoxy layer can be used - not just as coating but as a way of making a sandwich when you want to use wood for aesthetic reasons or if you are restricted in the use of exotics such as carbon fibre bonded with epoxy. I have used Western Red Cedar or lightweight mahogany substitutes coated with epoxy in this way to reduce weight while maintaining and sometimes improving structural properties. As a boatbuilder you will also know that obtaining good quality mahogany is almost impossible and even illegal for some species and this is a good way to substitute these in a functional way.

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

Yes, that is one of many other benefits to encapsulation. There are lots but my aim for this video really was to highlight they key points to consider behind when you can use this process. End use applications extend way beyond the examples I have mentioned here of course.

[@svlamancha9877]

Great video and very well presented👍

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

Thank you! 👍

[@thomasstorgaard8928]

Thank you for sharing Dan!! Great info 🙂

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

Glad it was helpful!

[@boltnbrew]

Lovely! Would like to know the elongation to failure percentage for coupons that are the same thickness as what we would typically apply- 15-40 mils. Then add the element of cycling at 365x per year to see if it breaks down faster due to fatigue.

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

Thats a good question, from what I learnt during my visit, they explained that the stated tensile elongation of the epoxy is the limit to which the epoxy can stretch and then return to its original state. Therefore it can handle cycling within this amount. It is cycles that exceed this figure that begin to do long term damage and cause it to break down. One of the reasons it is set to 3.2% is that this is just above the elongation rate of glass matt, meaning that glass will prevent cycling exceeding that of the epoxy's capacity and therefore stop it breaking down long term. I know they also do tests where cyclic loads are applied to it, some under heat as well to see how this alters at different temperatures.

[@lionelfournier]

A wealth of info there! Thank you so much for the time and effort in making this video. The amount of protection coats required for high UV environment is staggering… When renewing, how much sanding of previous coats is required?

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

Yes that sun in Florida is pretty aggressive! The amount of sanding would really depend on the amount of damage done. If the coating is severely broken down (a significantly lost gloss and possibly beginning to crack) then it may need to be taken back quite far. If you keep on top of things and regularly maintain it then just enough sanding to key up the existing layer will be fine.

[@lionelfournier]

@@DanLeeBoatbuilding Thanks for the reply. By the way, your interview by Tom Cunliffe was awesome! And fresh also: 17 C and in T-shirt 😂

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

Yeah that was good fun making that video. I’m still holding on to the last bit of summer here… wasn’t wearing a t-shirt today though, it’s down to 12C now 😟

[@rjwintl]

Okay Captain Dan !! … Question : if you use CPES first , would you-could you use the West Systems epoxy ( 207/105) over top of it AND then use an Interlux or Pettit polyurethane paint on your wooden boat ??? … if the question seems stupid, I apologize but , I was always taught that there are no stupid questions, that’s how we learn !

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

A good question, like you say there are no stupid ones! In theory, yes you could certainly do this, potential things to look out for would be to ensure that all the solvent has evaporated from the CPES before you begin applying West System over the top to ensure you don't get solvent entrapment. Also ensure that the surface is well keyed up before applying West System epoxy as it wants to have a good key to bind to. I guess the CPES could have the effect of priming the surface first and potentially compromising the bond of the West System thereafter. My question though would by why the CPES? If you are fully encapsulating with West System then there is no benefit I can see to having the wood fibres underneath saturated with a penetrating epoxy. It's really not adding anything to the party.

[@rjwintl]

@@DanLeeBoatbuilding … using Southern Yellow Pine plywood here in Virginia and use the CPES throughout … intend to use the West Systems epoxy over 5 inch fiberglass mat at all the seams … thank you for your excellent advice !!! … your expertise deserves hearty approbation !!!

[@casualwcs8236]

@@rjwintl I've been using the CPES method for 2 full years and here is what I found. CPES then West Systems works excellent as long as the solvents have flashed off (24 hours). Varnish will not stick to CPES, it will lift sporadically. CPES (1 coat) plus 2 coats of West Systems works excellent. I allowed the West Systems to fully cure, then sanded with 320, then applied the 2nd coat of WS epoxy. Then sanded with 320 and applied to thick coats of Epifanes varnish (one part). This worked excellent here in Florida. I have tried all of this on a porch edition before starting on the Apreamare 10. I am a believer in this method because the CPES penetrants deep. I also allow no less than 7 days (preferably 10) days to allow my stains to dry. Thank you for bringing this up, we are like minded.

[@Deli_H28]

Really informative vid Dan!

[@ItisImarko]

I have seen many video.. avout explanation and "teaching" that one should be used in schools that good it is. Kompliments for extensive and proper preparation for video

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

Thank you 🙏 I am glad you liked the video.

[@ItisImarko]

@@DanLeeBoatbuilding actually i like several of them.. thow small comment.. because it was so many steps on some video.. mybe you should write steps

[@joewalsh7656]

Excellent information!

[@til7545]

Excellent overview of the topic, and your test examples clearly demonstrate the possible causes of failure. One question if I may which you very briefly mentioned, and this is related to my current build of a John Welsford Navigator: I am ore-encapsulating the major components before glueing them together. Simply because some areas are hard to coat once assembled. Anything I should consider with that?

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

Thanks! Pre-encapsulating is a great idea, like you say it means you can be thorough on parts that you may not be able to reach later. Things I would recommend to consider: 1. Remove any amine blush, with warm water and dish soap/washing up liquid prior to installing parts 2. Adequately key/pre-sand parts if you are bonding to them later (80g ideally) 3. Don't overlook potential holes in parts further down the line, seal these properly. As we saw with the water immersion tests, one hole allowing for ingress can compromise the encapsulation process. That's all I can think of right now.

[@til7545]

@@DanLeeBoatbuilding Very helpful advice, thank you so much!!

[@fredflintstone1428]

Brilliant video and many thanks. In considering the expansion of butt joints used in a plywood and fibreglassed sheathed construction, would the fibreglass tend to inhibit any such expansion and therefore the '3.2%' epoxy expansion not be a problem?

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

Glad you liked it! If the joint is well backed with a butt block giving sufficient support and glue surface area to the joint then yes you should be ok. I would highly recommend scarf joints as opposed to butt joints though in plywood construction. Done properly they will eliminate the risk of movement and cracking along seams.

[@paulbriggs3072]

The only way that the epoxy would crack would be if the fiberglass bridging the joint cracked. Low possibility.

[@letsdanceonhere]

Can the epoxy be applied to laminated wood that's been polyurethane painted? Great video.Thanks

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

Ideally you would want the epoxy to be the first product on, applied directly to the bare wood. It will certainly stick to polyurethane paint providing it is abraded correctly but you won't necessarily see the same performance benefits that I talk about in this video.

[@user-we5gc8yu8o]

Dan, It was good but can you talk about aluminium powder for uv protection, if only to explain why you don’t consider it for this sort of work. It appears to possibly be a longer lasting protection.

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

A good one. I am pretty sure most UV protection in clear coats is done in this way. I would be wary of adding powders myself to clear epoxy as I would be worried about compromising the colour of the finish. It would be worth doing some experimenting with though. I need to try and make friends with someone that has a UV exposure chamber so I can try some experiments like this.

[@domincsermanni9289]

taght me a lot... Thanks

[@Lex.Dachstein]

splendid!

[@markgallagher1376]

Since boats do flex, will the epoxy glued joints of the frames and longitudinals of my boat eventually. How can help to ensure a boats frame and planking won’t flex more that 3%?

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

This would be based largely on the boats construction. What is the construction method used in your boat?

[@markgallagher1376]

@@DanLeeBoatbuilding it is a 14’ skiff plywood on frames with 2 layers of 6 oz cloth on the outside. I don’t think it flexes much, but 3% doesn’t sound like a lot. Thanks for all the research and insights, by the way.

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

Yes 3.2% doesn't sound like a lot, this is one of the reasons I wanted to show physical examples in the video. Remember that 100mm timber needs to expand to 103.2mm but consider 1m square of your plywood skin... that would need to expand to 1032mm to create a failure on its surface, no plywood is ever going to do that! You have a stable construction boat there, especially with the addition of glass. Joints and seams are where you may see potential issues. If you have a bit of a dry joint in some ply transitions that breaks apart in time through use then you might see a problem arise there. Also if a frame breaks away from the skin at any time through use, damage or general fatigue. Holes drilled in parts that aren't properly sealed are probably the biggest cause of ingress leading to failure. Black marking around these as we saw in the water immersion tests are the early warning sign for this. I would say with your boat, keep an eye on seams , joints and holes over time. If a joint experiences excessive movement and you see the finish crack along it then you know it's moving a bit too much. Address it early on before water sets in and you'll be fine for years to come 👍

[@markgallagher1376]

@@DanLeeBoatbuilding thanks, Dan!!

[@voidfalse]

Hello ChatGPT, summarize this 30m video in 2 sentences.

[@DanLeeBoatbuilding]

For a non ai response... use only in scenarios where expansion and contraction will remain less than 3.2% especially spanning joints. Either adopt a thorough encapsulation approach or leave adequate breathability in place. Coat with a good quality paint or clear coat that will offer sufficient UV protection based on your expected area of use. Sorry, that was 3 sentences 😄