PA-38 Tomahawk (MSFS) | Sound Overview | Just Flight

#msfs2020 #flightsimulator #microsoftflightsimulator #msfs #justflight
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Here is a Sound Overview video showcasing the bespoke sound set that you will find in our PA-38 Tomahawk for MSFS. The sounds were all recorded from several real-world Tomahawks so it is as authentic and as real as it gets!
Further videos coming soon covering a full product overview.
www.justflight...

[@rhydderc127]

Day 1 buy; selfishly, I hope you do a steam gauge 172 next!

[@Godzilla32]

Easily one of the best devs in MSFS, well done JF.

[@beachcomberfilms8615]

Oh my goodness! This is going to be the only aircraft I fly in MSFS moving forward. I learned to fly on the Tomahawk and this has been well worth the wait! You'll have a direct purchase and MSFS store purchase from me. :-)

[@Luccas881]

I can't wait 😍 I fly this plane on real life (the only one in Brazil) and I'm crazy for this moment! The Tomahawk on MSFS. Just Flight, shut up and take my money

[@celthyan-music1118]

That's as usual, some outstanding quality!! Amazing work JF! I hope we get a Fokker update soon too!

[@Jigsaw407]

Amazing! Too many developers still don't understand that the sounds are just as important as the graphics are. Sometimes even more so! Luckily you guys don't skimp out in either department. Quite the opposite!

[@CurleeToes]

Amazing work as always

[@TheBullethead]

I made the mistake of taking my PPL on "Traumahawks" back in 1980 and I still have nightmares about it. This was back before the ADs somewhat tamed the things. As such, I can offer some feedback here. 1. Looks quite realistic, pretty much as I remember the ones I flew. I do note, however, that yours here has the post-AD mods including the inboard-mounted "stall strips". More on that later. 2. The engine is WAY too quiet. Me and my instructor had to shout at each other to communicate and we were bumping elbows. Of course, this was before noise-canceling headsets. We just had a single mic on a cord and a single speaker somewhere on the panel. So anyway, engine sound here is as if you're wearing noise-canceling headphones. If not, it should be almost deafening and definitely drowning out everything else like the sounds of switches and such. 3. I've got a lot to say about the stall/spin/recovery sequence. Prior to the ADs, Traumahawks only had the outboard stall strips to DELIBERATELY make the tips stall first and thus flip you right over and go into a spin. This was the plane's natural tendency--immediate spin after any stall, and strong counter-control to recover. This was back when spin recovery was deemed more important than stall avoidance so the idea was, if you could survive a Traumahawk, no other plane would intimidate you. That was literally what PIper used as a selling point. Bad idea for several reasons discussed below. One of the things the ADs mandated was the installation of inboard stall strips, to prevent this behavior. So as to the video sequence... a. The stall and spin entry was very realistic for a pre-AD plane. You'd get a second or so of buffet and hear the control rods rattling in the rear fuselage, then a brief tweet of the stall horn, and then one wing or the other would drop and if you didn't react instantly, you'd go right over on your back and then into a WICKEDLY rapid spin tossing you against the side of the cockpit and making it hard to reach the rudder pedal you needed to make it stop. If you had quick-enough reflexes tensed to go, you could slam in opposite controls and power to recover before the wing dropped more than about 60^ and you only lost about 100' of altitude, which was considered a passing grade. But a post-AD plane like yours shouldn't be this wicked. b. I know there's a video of the prototype doing 6+ turns of a spin in testing but that prototype was NOT like the production planes. AFTER getting the type certificate, Piper took out about 1/3 of the wings ribs WITHOUT TELLING ANYBODY or getting a new type certificate. There were lawsuits about this. Anyway, on production planes (at least early batches), the wing would twist in a spin, making recovery that much more difficult. And in any case, the plane was only approved for spins of 3 turns max and it would LITERALLY BEND if you did more. Ask me how I know. The plane was very light-weight and flimsy overall. Thus, I have many problems with your video doing like 20 turns of a spin and then pulling out at speeds over the redline, unless you had structural damage turned off in MSFS. c. The rollover into the 1st turn of the spin in your video was about the right speed, maybe a bit on the slow side. But the other turns were definitely too slow and too nose-down. They look closely modeled on the spins of the prototype in the video, in fact. But for production Traumahawks, the spin was flatter and more rapid (probably due to the wing twisting), creating strong lateral Gs making it hard to reach the opposite rudder pedal. The spins were so fast you couldn't count them. So the method for doing a 3-turn spin was to let the thing roll over to start with and then stomp in the opposite controls. By the time you did that and stopped the spin, you'd likely have done 3 turns. Or at least as far as anybody could tell, so that passed on the checkride. 4. BUT, if kept well clear of stall conditions, the Traumahawk was a pleasant-enough plane to fly, provided you didn't care about speed or deafening noise. It looked rather snazzier than its competition in the trainer market, the C152, and had better visibility of the runway when doing patterns (at the cost of an unbearably hot cockpit due to the sun coming in on top). But a series of questionable design and manufacturing choices led to a bunch of smoking holes, lawsuits, ADs, curtailed production and, ultimately, a rather short mandated airframe life. So now, forty-odd years on, most of the Traumahawks have gone on to a better life as beer cans. I don't miss them. That said, I've been curious to see how y'all would approach this plane. I wish you success with its sales but it does, IMHO, need some work in the areas of engine volume, spin behavior, and lack of structural strength.

[@GuardianSmurf]

Some great info! Interestingly, I found the cockpit to have more room than the C172 I also flew at the time, but I was also pretty skinny back then! I enjoyed my time in GBPER - first aviation love..

[@renegadenine]

Great comment, thoroughly enjoyed reading it. Hopefully Justflight will take this all on board.

[@davidtsw]

JF please take this into account

[@Blxz]

Anecdotally, having flown in a Tomahawk recently, the engine sounds were about right when wearing a standard modern pressure headset (not ANC). But the only time I'd hear the creak of knobs and switches was during run-up. No way you'd hear them at anything above 1000rpm.

[@justflight]

Thank you for taking the time to write this comment and for your valuable feedback. One of the best parts of our job is reading comments like yours from members of the community who have personal experience in the aircraft we develop, and who take the time to praise, or leave constructive feedback on where things could be a little better. There is a lot of points here but I suppose the best way to answer most of your feedback is the balance between expectation and reality. We aren’t developing a real aircraft here (although it sometimes feels like we are!), we are developing an aircraft for a flight simulator. We therefore have to abide by the limitations of the host simulator as well as the perceptions of the community. The model of our PA-38 Tomahawk is based on the aircraft we were fortunate enough to be given access too, which as you mention were post-AD aircraft with the additional stall strips installed. We didn’t have access to a pre-AD aircraft so we weren’t able to model that type, but as we suspect most users would like to spin the Tomahawk (after all, that is what it got its reputation for) then our flight model developer focused on getting these stall and spin characteristics as accurately simulated as possible. With the limitations faced with the MSFS flight model, we are extremely impressed with what has been achieved with the flight model, and it is far more accurate than we thought would be possible at the start of the project. We are really pushing the limits here of what can be done with the MSFS flight model, so the current stall/spin characteristic are as accurate as it gets until further options are made available for us to use in the flight model (hopefully in MSFS 2024). With regards to the engine sound, all of the sounds heard in this video were recorded from the real aircraft, so we have the data on all the correct volume levels in the real aircraft so we could implement that at the correct levels, but we are fairly confident that it wouldn’t lead to a very pleasant experience in the simulator. We would rather have users have a pleasant experience in our aircraft, without ending the flight with a headache due to the overwhelming engine sound! On the other hand, having the sounds muffled as if you have a noise cancelling headset on also wouldn’t please users who would like to hear the engine and all of the other subtle sounds included in this simulation. The sounds are all controllable via the MSFS sound options, so if you can tweak those further to get them at a balance that suits you. Thank you again for the feedback though. It has all been logged on our internal bugs/feature request trackers, and this will all be investigated to see if anything that can be improved on our end.

[@SparkySven]

Amazing sounds & details. Must have it asap. Well done JF. It's going to be the next top GA bird

[@davidtsw]

Gotta love how more and more planes for MSFS have rich, immersive sounds. This Pa38 sounds so good that I feel TRAUMATIZED after that long spin. Engine start up was beautiful too, so full of character. This might soon join the likes of Comanche and Da42 among the best GA aircraft for MSFS.

[@bensisneroz7027]

Sounds are def spot on. I have all of just flights GA planes and they are amazing.

[@GuardianSmurf]

This brings me so much joy - I learnt to fly in - BPER back in the 1990s (sadly written off some years later). As much as I love the Warrior, this may well be a Day 1 purchase!!

[@williamfrench9910]

Gorgeous model, can't wait to do some flight training in this plane! I love it when my virtual flight club gets a new aircraft!!! Then I can talk to myself and say things like "VY! VY! VY!" or "oh no the engine just died!"

[@BruceArtwick]

Very cool, although if I heard such a screech during preflight while moving the yoke I'd ask the mechanic to check it :)

[@comradejames7813]

Yeah I'll be honest, flying this puppy irl, I have not noticed like half of these sounds aye, just don't hear them with the headset on

[@juliashenandoah3965]

A cute little plane! Very detailed modeling and animation. The movement of the cables below the yoke looks super detailed when steering, and a great plane for good old classic navigation with no GPS inside but interesting custom radio panel stack. Is it going to have a few build in random failures that can be activated for the electric or engine? What do you think of doing the most unique private plane the Cessna Skymaster in this quality standard next?

[@justflight]

The PA-38 Tomahawk doesn't have random failures, but failures will occur based on you fly the aircraft. For instance, if you make lots of hard landing, the aircraft's tyres and gear struts will wear faster than if you make lots of smooth landings. These failures are also persistent between flights allowing you grow a connection with the aircraft, and treat it as if it is your own.

[@shanesdiy]

You're killing me with the teasers. So excited for this to be released. I have memories flying in one of these with my Dad and brothers. Anxiously waiting...

[@Topcat1952]

OK, I'm sold. Bring it on, please.

[@stefanblackadder5236]

Several hours of my first flight training is in this aircraft. You nailed it. I’m getting this as soon as it’s available for Xbox. This has sentimental significance for me, and I’m a big fan of your products.

[@MorrisseysMonkey]

Great!, Loved this on XP11 and will on MSFS aswell

[@CherokeeFlyer67]

This looks amazing! Did my most of my PPL in a Tomahawk so really looking forward to this!

[@davenicoll43]

What an absolute beaut of a model....Day 1 purchase for me...JF do amazing GA aircraft in my opinion...Have them all..

[@beachcomberfilms8615]

Also "spark plug" condition should be "magneto condition". Another suggestion for an update is the strobes usually create a slight buzz on the radios/speakers when they flash. Also the demo of the stall and spin recovery. The Tomahawk doesn't go into a spin in a stall unless you do cross controls, i.e. aileron + opposite rudder. A normal stall will just have the nose pitch down.

[@fabiena1787]

Why magneto condition? I thought (I think I knew, at least) that those are the spark plugs that get foul when the mixture is too rich. As a side note, I never understood why the mixture had to be set at full rich at sea level *before the take off phase*.

[@justflight]

The spin shown in this video was initiated by a large rudder input to the left. A normal stall can still be performed without that rudder input and the aircraft will either drop it's nose, or drop a wing depending on conditions.

[@LWJCarroll]

Fyi here in NZ in the 1980s we didn’t do spins in the Tomahawk just stalls as I recall. Wing drops? Either because of extended stall strips on the wings or prohibited, I cant recall exactly which one or both. Laurie. NZ. 😊

[@nickkelly2188]

@@LWJCarrollI did my flight training in Hawkes Bay, NZ in 2019 and we spun the Tomahawks

[@Aeryxs]

Sounds great! (Pun intended) you can release it now please.

[@beachcomberfilms8615]

One suggestion for a future update, the hand prop spin, are you able to make it move like the pistons are affecting the turn. It doesn't spin freely like that, it takes pressure to move, then it will reach max resistance then slide down on the stroke. Also does it have the AH gyro spin down sound? Hope that makes sense. By the way you definitely have me with the Primer and Stall Warning!!! Excellent work.

[@justflight]

Thank you for the suggestion regarding the prop. We have logged this on our internal feature request tracker. The AH gyro does have spin down sound too.

[@peterbassey9668]

How does one unlock the rudders, please?! I just got this a couple of minutes ago and can't figure that out. Not even the videos I've watched have indicated how that's done.

[@mcshiggitypilot5901]

They stay fixed until you start taxing

[@peterbassey9668]

@@mcshiggitypilot5901 Oh wow! Thanks for that. In that case, I’m heading back into the Sim. Tragically, I wouldn’t even start the aircraft until I got all the parts moving. I feel like a real idiot for that now. Once again, a big thanks, pls.

[@mcshiggitypilot5901]

@@peterbassey9668 Im glad I was able to help! It is the same way in a reallife Tomahawk too! Enjoy keep the blueside up! Maybe groupflight sometime?

[@Luccas881]

When it will be available?

[@Blxz]

Supposed to be next week.

[@jameshall5835]

Like most commenters, the PA-38 was my PFT out of Memphis before moving to PA-28’s, etc. I really loved this aircraft. Back in the late 70’s, we didn’t use headsets - I could hear just fine. Spin training was a thing then and 3 turns was about it - it gets your attention. Another aircraft to model, if it already hasn’t, would be the Grumman Tiger AA5B - overhead canopy, differential brake steering and just a real nice bird.

[@christopherwalker283]

I remember looking over my shoulder during a spin to see what the rudder and elevator were doing, and it was interesting to see just how much the empennage. was flopping around. High aspect ratio wing with loads of time required to overcome the autorotation and a long time before opposite rudder stops the rotation. I stand corrected but the later models had some revised rib spacings in the wings and this made4 things a bit more interesting with slight wing rotation (aileron reversal) around the main spar. Not sure how many of these aircraft still flying but having flown one as an instructor it was an education.

[@get_outdoors]

Looks and sounds great, are failures/ wear & tear modelled ?

[@darrenbrown3128]

Yes!

[@get_outdoors]

It’s a buy for me !

[@joelmulder]

Incredible attention to detail! I can’t wait to fly this in the sim!

[@NevilleLawson0429]

Yeeees!!!!!!! this wonderful airplane is a true masterpiece

[@Brimmlinn]

What happened with the Duke? Lots of good videos like this and then nothing. As a former Duke A&P I am really looking forward to that one.

[@justflight]

Statement we made a few weeks ago: www.justflight.com/articles/black-square-dukes-development-update-april-2024

[@BruceArtwick]

I wonder if the Tomahawk has a free castering nosewheel. If it's a direct-control nosewheel like on all single Pipers then moving the rudder by hand like this should not be possible. It would signal a broken control linkage.

[@Blxz]

I was taught to never force the rudder during pre-flight checks. I'm reckon they've made a mistake with that one in the sim.

[@nickkelly2188]

It’s direct control, they have made a mistake.

[@darrenbrown3128]

‘Just Flight… Just WOW!’

[@Mimiclobster]

Which airport is this and is it a default one or payware? Thx

[@monostripeexplosiveexplora2374]

Lovely, I always enjoy overspeeding some simulated traumahawk! Can we see it spin more?

[@ProGamer-gc3wv]

When release? I will get this as soon as its available...

[@PKerusso]

Looks like there holding all releases til SU 15 unfortunately

[@42LGK]

hour 1 buy for me

[@Flightsimmike]

Love it :-)

[@brainwb]

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@cheno216]

Which airport is this. I would like this to be my first airport with the Tomahawk

[@justflight]

This video was recorded at Barton (EGCB), The scenery is included with MSFS World Update III: United Kingdom & Ireland.

[@cheno216]

@@justflight Thank you!

[@johnglubney3228]

Piper Traumahawk. If you know, you know

[@beachcomberfilms8615]

If you call it a Traumahawk, you're may be a pilot but you're not a true aviator.

[@fabiena1787]

I'll have one, please! In the meantime, could anyone give me the ICAO code, or the name of this airport? I'm sorry, I wasn't able to identify it. It looks really nice.

[@justflight]

This video was recorded at Barton (EGCB), The scenery is included with MSFS World Update III: United Kingdom & Ireland.

[@fabiena1787]

@@justflight Thank you very much for answering me. I'll make sure to go and fly there when I get the PA-38. I was trying to find it amongst the myriad of add-ons but could not find it. Cheers.

[@mikecoffee100]

yahhh but is it SU 15 ready

[@davidtsw]

I'm tempted to buy but yeah, I hope JF won't leave it broken for months after the next SU like their older Pipers were back in the day

[@mikecoffee100]

@@davidtsw yah otherwise I too am tempted and perhaps the TBM 850 and then thats it till 2024 and i will deffo wont get that for awhile and good video Thank You

[@buikhan]

What day next week for this?

[@justflight]

Thursday we hope.

[@antonioiozzi4301]

@@justflight hope there will be the usual PSD paintkit. Lot of livery to be done here!

[@ChaosHamsterG]

@@justflight thursday as in release date or another preview video?

[@justflight]

@@ChaosHamsterG Release

[@Trip_on_the_Sky]

What is the status of baev2 for Xbox ?

[@justflight]

The 146 Version 2 update is currently being processed by the marketplace team and we hope it should be available very soon. We'll keep everyone updated via our normal social media platforms.

[@Trip_on_the_Sky]

@@justflight thank you very much

[@kevin1873]

The fact that you could buy a 1979 Piper Tomahawk before Covid and Bidenomics for $20,000 was awesome. That same plane today is being sold for $50,000. GA will be dead in less than 10 years. 🤦‍♂

[@Sam-747]

GA will not be dead anytime soon. How else will pilots train for their licences?

[@Frank71]

So, what about...the sky is always falling. Doesn't really matter who is in the white house. People will still need trainers in the future and companies will make em.

[@Games-ei1qc]

I wish these videos were in the normal 16:9 aspect ratio - the black bars look so awkward.

[@DavidR_192]

It's a sound video.

[@Games-ei1qc]

@@DavidR_192 That... does not have anything to do with my original point?

[@beachcomberfilms8615]

Cinemascope is fine!