Paddling my BRAND NEW CANOE!! (Northstar B17)

[@z352kdaf8324]

I watched this video last night, and youtube fed me another b17 video. "B 17 IXP hull wear"...

[@bobsmith4115]

Well obviously I screwed it up we'll try again... I've been to the boundary Waters 25 times plus and your advice that you've given in a few videos is very good.... Basically you don't have to buy out the entire REI store to succeed... Plan ahead, be realistic, and enjoy your time there

[@awdriven]

We like our IXP B17 a lot. We've paddled a little flat water but mostly river miles, including C2 rapids. There is less 'initial stability' than a dedicated flatwater tripping boat like a Northwind, but that helps the boat better handle pitching waves and rough water. A very flat-bottomed boat will be very influenced by wave action. A more rounded shape of the bottom and chines lets you have more control by adjusting your balance/weight in the boat. You'll bob in the waves rather than be tossed. I spend most of my time kneeling, which lowers my center of gravity and lets me better control those first few degrees of roll. The bit of rocker this boat has, also helps it to turn more easily. Enjoy your boat! :)

[@TechnicallyRugged]

I got back from a 9 day BWCA trip on Sunday and found that the B17 really is a different boat when fully loaded. So much more stable. I didn't end up needing to kneel because our weather was so awesome. Hardly any high winds to deal with, and the ones we had were straight headwinds. Overall I'm much happier. Thanks a lot for your thoughts and reassurance!! Glad to hear from another B17 owner.

[@Outdoorswithmikey]

@@TechnicallyRugged I had the same feeling with my empty H20 Prospector 16.4. It was very tippy empty tandem but loaded it was a dream albeit a bit slower than I'm used to. I'm about to buy a B16 Blacklite without trying one out first.

[@TechnicallyRugged]

@@Outdoorswithmikey The B series are really nice boats. If you know what to expect (and know that they'll behave better when loaded) I think they're a great option.

[@ryanhines2857]

I was going to say a canoe loaded with gear is a lot less tippy! Northwind 17 or B17. I’m getting ready to order a B17 in IXP layup for whitewater flat water trips. Planning on doing the Allenwater river in Wabakimi next year so it will be a mix of both. I have not gotten to paddle one on the water yet though. Bear let me come up to his house last night somI could at least see his and get a sense of the weight difference and see a B17. Glad to hear you like it better once you got some time in it with it loaded. I will say last summer after tripping Quetico 14 days in a Northwind 20 I got into a Northwind 17 for the family BWCA trip and it felt really tippy to me for the first day. We had less weight in the tandem canoes though with only 2 packs per canoe.

[@TechnicallyRugged]

@@ryanhines2857 For moving water I think the B17 would make an excellent tripping boat. For mostly flat water (and some waves), I think I'd prefer something that tracks better. Maybe in the spring I will see if someone wants to trade their NW17 BlackLite for my B17 BlackLite. lol. I still need to paddle the NW17 though.

[@tpalshadow]

I'm glad to see you back posting, congrats on the new purchase!

[@TechnicallyRugged]

Thanks!! Yeah I've got my work cut out for me with last year's trips... really should've posted them a while ago. It'll have to be after my first canoe trip of this year because I have a lot of work to do before I leave on Friday!!

[@awdriven]

I think you also noticed that this boat does pretty well in the wind too. A lot of prospector-type boats have higher ends, which can tend to catch the wind.

[@bobsmith4115]

I'm specifically referring to the how to plan a canoe trip to the boundary Waters video...fyi

[@daruke2492]

Based

[@bobsmith4115]

Okay these responses are due to a video about The boundary Waters that has 2.6 million views that is just annoying and totally misses the point of The boundary Waters.... Basically the video is a few attractive people going to the boundary Waters for their first time and all the trials and tribulations they have... Your videos give the honest truth what to plan for and how the average person can enjoy the beauty of the boundary Waters.

[@TechnicallyRugged]

Thanks Bob. I try to show the reality of canoe tripping! It's usually fun and beautiful, but sometimes it's tough. Sometimes it just plain sucks. But those moments of struggle are what put the moments of triumph and wonder into context. I could put together a trailer video making the BWCA look like all roses and cupcakes, if I wanted to.... I could also put together a video making it look like a de facto bad time. It's important to present both sides! But it's also easier to convince new people to get outside if you show them the good parts. :)

[@Outdoorswithmikey]

you'll find it much more stable when you're on your knees in these boats with no load in it.

[@TechnicallyRugged]

I think kneeling would be more stable with or without a load, but especially with a load. It's a whole different boat when loaded. So much more stable.

[@Chris-ir1qo]

I bought the B17 and haven’t put it in the water yet and I don’t know if I want to. I had it tied on my deck and the wind flipped it on its side and it cracked on both ends. I paid 3800. Bucks for something I have to fix before it hits the water. Not impressed with it. What’s going to happen when it brushes against a rock?

[@TechnicallyRugged]

Sorry to hear about your canoe! I've 31 days in the BWCA in mine, probably something like 200 miles of paddling and portaging, and it has many scratches, some deeper than I'd like. But it's still holding up like a champ. I'll probably get it recoated this fall and try to be slightly more gentle with it, but it's proven to be plenty durable against sharp rocks. Many of them. lol

[@bobsmith4115]

Hello, I've never commented on a KZbin channel before so if I do this wrong don't get mad at me....

[@jonasf4065]

What did you paddle prior to this? Sounds like what you had was much more stable.

[@TechnicallyRugged]

Yeah, flatter bottom canoes only, really. Wenonah Champlain, Seneca, MN3 (not that stable), Boundary Waters, and the SR Quetico 17.

[@flt528]

I wonder if the whole "secondary stability" thing is just imaginary. Sure, it makes sense in a drawing, where the round-bottom boat happily sits upright broadside in a big wave whereas a flat-bottom boat is forced to heel over at the same angle as the surface of the wave. But in my experience with sea kayaks, flat-bottom boats are far more stable in all conditions than round-bottom kayaks. A flat-bottom sea kayak does NOT capsize more easily than a round-bottom kayak, and if anything has MORE "secondary" stability when compared to a round-bottom kayak. Are canoes much different? Taking a round-bottom canoe out in choppy water and saying "hey it heeled over but it didn't capsize" doesn't mean it has some special property that's lacking in a flat-bottom canoe.

[@dennisley3553]

I’ve got to be honest, it was a bit painful to watch. I’ll share with you a couple of things; incorporate them if they make sense. 1. The stern paddler should [always] be kneeling, especially if the canoe is empty / near empty. The kneeling pad that Northstar sells is perfect (and, precisely why they sell them). Kneeling lowers your center of gravity, and, provides significantly greater structural strength / support for paddling and controlling the canoe. 2. Get rid of those [ridiculous] seats - you will never see experienced canoeists use them, for a very good reason; they interfere with proper torso rotation as well as core muscle integration and large muscle integration. CCS sells a padded seat cushion that is perfect for canoerists. Good luck on your upcoming trip. I look forward to those videos.

[@TechnicallyRugged]

Dennis, thanks very much for the honest feedback. I am still very much a novice when it comes to technique and I am OK with that. Without advice and practice I wouldn't be able to improve! Know that I have considered both points previously but I am not interested, mostly because... 1. I have never needed to kneel in a canoe before, and I'm not saying I'll never do it, or never need to, but I don't intend to start kneeling for 8 hours at a time. I need to be able to control the canoe while in a comfortable position. If I was in fast water or paddling in a heavy chop and headwind, I'd consider it, but still, I've paddled in plenty of wind and never felt the need to kneel. I know it helps, but if it's not necessary, then why not use a more comfortable position? 2. I know they aren't for competitions, they're for comfort! Those seats are make long days on the water go by with only your arms to tell you you're tired. I've paddled 15 miles in a day without a seat back and my lower back and butt were unhappy about it. I don't have time to improve my core strength by 50% in 2 weeks so I think I would end up hunching (which I did on the first 2 outings without the seat) and end up with pain much earlier than usual. I know the seat is a crutch but it's a comfortable crutch, and it hasn't done me wrong yet. Maybe I'll lose the weight I've been meaning to lose and actually do some abdominal exercises that allow me to sit up straighter while putting a few thousand strokes down in a day, but I don't think it will be on this upcoming trip... probably not in September either if I'm being honest with myself. 3. If I ever decide to competitively paddle, or want to become a minimal purist and be as efficient as possible, then sure I'll get rid of the seat, kneel 24/7, and leave more gear at home. But, right now my BWCA tripping involves double carrying, comfortable paddling for long stretches through remote areas, and especially fishing. The seats help with endurance for out of shape folks such as myself and while I think we should all aspire to be healthier, I don't think there's anything wrong with treating your back to a little support, even if means your paddling form isn't perfect. I know mine is quite far from perfect but I don't think getting rid of one of my favorite comfort items is a good way to improve my canoe tripping experience - going faster or spending slightly less energy overall isn't as important to me. Again, I do appreciate the reinforcement of these ideals; maybe when I am out paddling the canoe for pleasure around home and have more experience in it, I'll start removing crutches and focus on being a better paddler, but it needs to be because I find it actually improves the experience, not because it makes me feel like a more experienced/pure canoeist.

[@Mike-jq2jj]

Right on JD. You be you. I also use back rest, sure helps on those long days. I would advise that you at least experiment with kneeling technique. Something you should be familiar and comfortable with. I have been in several situations where you come around a point and the wind is brutal. Boom, drop to your knees, dig in and power through it to the next protected cove or island or point and sit up and relax. I would never kneel all day, but it has saved me more than once. Good luck on your trip and I'll be waiting to see you post trip report.

[@TechnicallyRugged]

@@Mike-jq2jj Thanks Mike. Everyone has different requirements, different contexts that determine how they live their life, how they enjoy their hobbies, and in my case, those seat backs are very welcome. I think I will definitely experiment with kneeling this year whether I like it or not, as we do have some big/big-ish open water crossings (Lake 1/2/3, Little Sag, Gabi, Ogish, SAK) and it wouldn't be a spring canoe trip without endless amounts of wind! I almost want to bring a thin folding pad to help my knees in the event that I end up kneeling more than I planned.

[@FishingWithKa]

I agree those back rests suck if you are actually paddling and not just messing around fishing. They get int he way of every stroke.