Pampero and Why Euro Games Don't Hit the Same Anymore

[@st0ox]

"I don't hate Eurogames, some of my best friends are Euros..."

[@sedraniM]

I'm glad someone is speaking up. This is how i feel for the last 2 years in the hobby. I tried to discuss this in a very respectful way on BGG a year ago, but the hostility against my arguments was next level. I keep my personal opinions to myself these days. We are getting flooded with games. I miss the time where every 3-6 months one good game was announced. I just tried all of them out with a lot of passion. Now i am overwhelmed by the sheer mass of new games in the hobby, why i just keep playing my old ones.

[@erik-janvanoosten1450]

There's nothing wrong with liking the games you like. Lucky for us, It's not like the games on your shelve get any worse because of the new "hotness". I think I'll choose Great Western Trail over - for example - Ark Nova any day of the week.

[@sedraniM]

@@erik-janvanoosten1450 It's not that i don't like new games, but many titles feel 'generic'. A retheme of classics with 2 new mechanics. In the last years i absolutely loved new games like Arcs, Wonderland's War, Nemesis that brought me a fresh experience. But the hobby feels like quantity of quality now. 20+ new Kickstarters every month. It's crazy. It's like checking 5 check boxes, slap some art on it and next. Pampero feels exactly like this kind of game.

[@akuchling]

A few months ago, Tom Brewster of SU&SD also said they weren't really going to look at Euros much any more (Lacrimosa was the title I recall him mentioning, but don't remember if it was on their podcast or in a video). This is kind of disappointing to me, because I mostly prefer playing Euros -- I enjoy the struggle to combine actions & resource earning to Do A Thing, and whether the mechanics are novel doesn't really matter to me. After all, people do crosswords or sudokus as a hobby, and crosswords don't show much innovation in their rules either; it's just solving a different puzzle using the same rules.

I feel like this has been going for much longer than that. Before 2020 there used to be year were there was a handful of very high caliber heavy euros. Now I'm happy if there's one or two per year, and even then I feel like they don't have the same durability.

[@radred609]

It feels like a decade ago, we were exploring a whole new world of boardgames. The scene was new enough (and, more to the point, small enough) that new games were usually worth trying. Even the games which weren't amazing were often novel enough to be worth buying (or at least, worth playing when one of your more wealthy engineering friends bought it.) But these days, there is such an enormous backlog of great games that any new game has to be truly incredible to be worth organising a game night... let alone actually forking over your cash. And that's *before* considering the current issues of industry oversaturation, annual release dates, and general churn that seems to have resulted in twice as many games being released with only half as many of them being... you know, actually any good. EDIT: I say "these days", but i guess for me the cuttoff was some-time in the early 20s. I'm pretty certain that covid had nothing to do with it (it was already trending this way before covid), but the tipping point (or perhaps it's better thought of as the "culmination point") certainly coincided with that "post covid recovery period".

[@jimw2633]

Thank you Efka for quoting my comment on BGG. Really didn't expect I would make it on your video with it :-) That said, I very much agree with your conclusion on Pampero.

[@NoPunIncluded]

Amazing!

[@jimw2633]

@@NoPunIncluded For explanation: what happened in our session was that whenever two players with bulldozers stand on the same area, we would start negotiating "I use yours, when you use mine afterwards". So it really felt like a negotiation game. One player that did not participate in negotiations lost by a large margin. So I was really wondering whether Pampero intentionally wants to be a negotiation game instead of a "normal" Eurogame. And it could indeed be a good negotiation game if designed as such.

[@NoPunIncluded]

I think that all that's needed in that regard is some clarity of intention.

[@jimw2633]

@@NoPunIncluded Yes, agreed, that would have helped, well, plus some streamlining on the rules and systems as you rightfully pointed out. Btw, it felt really surreal the moment when you pointed at me and spoke to me directly 🙂 Love your videos!

[@NoPunIncluded]

Well, conversely, BGG has millions of users. The chances of "JimB1" being one of our viewers were pretty slim. Consider me equally astonished when I saw your comment.

[@acedaryl2]

"How do you do fellow kids" - Efka

[@TorIverWilhelmsen]

Pity you need a table the size of Uruguay to play.

[@MrJulianpombo]

Bigger than Uruguay

[@Skarpo89]

We are a small country luckily

[@KSweeney36]

This is a “big” issue with a lot of the recent releases. Our homes and tables are not changing size but the games grow and grow. We need more games like first rat and white castle

[@JCintheBCC]

This review ends up feeling like watching pro cycling races. Everyone works together to make progress, but also to test one another. Once there is a crack in the group, someone will inevitably make a break. Time it right, and your sudden lead (and betrayal) is unsurmountable before the finish line; time it wrong, and the group will catch you and leave you behind, never to trust you again. A fascinating concept that I cannot imagine going well in my family.

[@michadvgames]

I have often said that a good rulebook doesn't just tell you how to do things, it should give a sense of what you SHOULD do. Just as your driving instructor doesn't just tell you how to operate the controls of the car - he also takes you out into traffic. When I express that, I get a chorus of "Nooo - I want to explore the game and learn these things on my own! I want to have to play a game 20 times before I truly understand it!" That's a personal preference, I suppose. I often don't get to play a game 20 times. And if a group severely misunderstands a game, they may not want to try it again. Compounding this is when a game has theme disconnect. It's "Monkey Scrubber" and 3/4 of the rules are about scrubbing monkeys and there are penalties for not scrubbing monkeys thoroughly enough and when everyone does poorly, you read online that oh, the winning play is to never scrub your monkeys but to put other people in a position where THEY have to scrub your monkeys and, actually, the most points come from tricycle riding, which is a side action that has two sentences in the rules. Why isn't the game called "Monkeys on Tricycles" then? I've had this experience with CO2, In the Year of the Dragon, and Panamax, to my recollection. Your first game is sort of wasted because of a fundamental misunderstanding, exacerbated by theme disconnect.

[@Sina-dv1eg]

I agree completely. This style of writing rules was very popular in older tabletop RPGs, they call it Ivory Tower Design. The designer sits in their ivory tower and throws seemingly random rules at the players, who are supposed to figure it out themselves. Modern Dungeons and Dragons still has a lot of it, weird and unintuitive interactions between rules that are kind of hidden away in the wording, such as the spell "see invisibility" technically not allowing you to see someone who is invisible. For board games, I recently bought Spirit Island, and I loooove the way the rulebook is written. When a rule seems random or easy to misinterpret, a little clarification is added afterward, explaining the purpose. And there are some strategy tips to get you started if you're confused. Lovely stuff

[@SilvesterBoots]

Like even then, you can have additional chapter on explaining ideas, strategies and themes. And reader can choose not to read it, if they will.

[@SilvesterBoots]

@@Sina-dv1eg Can you expand on "see invisibility"? How so?

[@Sina-dv1eg]

@@SilvesterBoots Basically, in the 5th edition of DnD, there are many effects that allow you to turn invisible. The invisibility condition is described as making you undetectable by visual clues and giving you a bonus to dice rolls for hitting or avoiding attacks. That makes intuitive sense, if I can't see where your punch is coming from, you'll have an easier time hitting me. Now, we come to the spell "see invisibility". It is described with this sentence: "For a duration, you see invisible creatures and objects as if they were visible." So, a normal person might read this and assume that the person no longer has a bonus for attacking or avoiding you, since they are no longer invisible to you. BUT, the spell never explicitly mentions that the invisible person loses their invisibility benefits. The invisibility condition doesn't say that it gives you a bonus against targets that can't see you, just that it gives you a bonus. So, someone asked lead rules designer Jeremy Crawford what this means. And Crawford replied by congratulating the person's attentiveness, because apparently this was all intentional. According to the lead rules designer, see invisibility does NOT remove the combat bonuses that an invisble person has against you, even though you "see invisible creatures as if they were visible". This makes literally no sense, and they apparently changed it in the new book that came out last week, 10 years later. What really annoys me about this whole ordeal is the smugness when Jeremy Crawford explains it. I think you can easily find the video on KZbin. If you CONGRATULATE a person for their astuteness because they UNDERSTOOD your rules, then your rules are absolutely terrible and should never have been published.

[@SilvesterBoots]

​@@Sina-dv1eg I see. Thank you for the answer. Yeah, it's Jeremy's gimmick. In all his answers he relied on how things were stated, so his words were more of clarifications of how sentences should be read. He, preferably, didn't change rules. Does it make situation better? No. It's the way he approached errata. Congratulating - is his way to relate to a person, in a good way. He generally tries to be welcoming. Doesn't solve such approach to errata for some. Meanwhile, they also (and many other systems) proposed gold rule - that rules are guides at best. So I mostly went with them as template and gone with what makes sense around our tables. My job being an arbiter. That's probably the main problem for DnD5 - it leaves too much on beginning GM. P.S.: That might be oft frustrating. People speak and expect differently. It's how many bridges they build to each other that matters.

[@bayushisezaru]

This is how critique about anything (not just boardgames) should be done. Bravo!

[@saveversus]

I played El Grande for the first time very late (the big box was already out and gone). When they explained the game to me - broadly, put your dudes on the map and have more than the other guy - I said, "Wait, that's IT?!" It was like peppermint to my brain. I got more enjoyment out of the decision space of that game than some modern euros where the difficulty is spinning more plates and not just "spin your plate better than the others."

[@JoshuaLivie]

15 year ago euros are usually more fun than the convoluted euros of today.

[@Hibobugawa]

I would like to comment on the how scoring and the dynamic between player work: it is all very relatable to me when i relate both real-world contracts and construction and/or energy companies dealing with each other. They are basically in an interdependent web of crazy contracts, with money flowing from too many pockets to these same pockets, at the same time they are competing with each other - looking for moments they can either break rules or take the leading spear, facing risks because the surplus might be convincing. If i had the chance to play pampero, i'd have in mind being a ceo in which, the classic bourgeoise club is always collaborating with one another, but everyone is looking for the "opportunity" moment to cash in more than everyone else

[@MatteoCoppolaNeri]

the issue is the kickstarter culture. well-developed games don’t sell copies on ks. gametrays do. lots of components do. screen printed stretch goals do. by the time you realise the game is underbaked, its life cycle sales-wise is over already, they got the money and will just distribute the remaining copies with no long-term strategy. guess which game didn’t go on kickstarter? Nucleum.

[@JulianTheLecturer]

Always love watching your videos! I heard a Frey bentos pie costs £4 in the Bahamas and £5 in Jamaica. Those are the pie rates of the Caribbean!

[@mikec64]

I hope you are not forgiven for this.

[@julianbailey2749]

I forgive you

[@nevermindthegermans6242]

"That must be the worst joke I ever heard of." - "But you have heard of it."

[@MarioLiterario]

This was a really insightful review. Also a refreshing one, it is not usual to see this level of thinking after videos. Well done!

[@brianlonsway3369]

Another truly brilliant commentary by NPI. So insightful and reflective about gaming, playing, and designing. A great example of the sociology of objects/sociology of things. Thank you! While I want to play Pampero more now because of this review to experience what Efka describes, I also don't need to. Efka's exploration of the game itself as a complex model of a social system and the game-as-artifact in the context of the game development, design, and communication industry is a master class in games criticism.

[@Burak-pl1jl]

I just wanted to say I really enjoy your videos and the way you review board games, also the deep research that goes with them! Thank you! 🙇

[@NoPunIncluded]

Thank you!

[@sidhantchand]

What a great perspective you've shared! Love it love it :) keep making such amazing videos and talking about such interesting dynamics

[@kungpow108]

What a great review. I backed the kickstarter. I've been turning in my head between a game with not much going on but then when I play the game, I get hooked by trying to being efficient with my turns making the most money. It has always been fun playing the game. I think there is more under the surface that people give it credit for. A lot of the replayability is bumping against other players. I also do hate how expensive they made the game because a lot of people aren't going to get a chance to try the game.

[@Tolinar]

12:30 With that face, the video is officially *made*. Thank you for your hard work. Truly above and beyond for a board game review.

[@WhereMyMeepsAt]

Literally, your energy and wit makes these videos amazing. Keep it up!!

[@davidk6269]

Thanks to ProZD, whenever I hear "Euro Games", I think of: "Jamestown: now with wheat. And Jamestown: The Racist Parts that Nobody Asked For". ; )

[@TheAirSpencer]

I will never hear "Victory Points" in anything other than his voice. Fortunately, I don't hear it often.

[@davidk6269]

@@TheAirSpencer LOL!!!!

[@VindoViper]

​@@TheAirSpencerYup. If a game's victory condition is whoever earns the most victory points I immediately check out. It has to be the least thematic way to think about a game possible and just kills all my enthusiasm.

[@palerocty]

Love your work! Both the videos and the podcast offer a great outlook on board games that other channels don't. Have you considered a board game biography type video of COIN games? I believe that the negotiations aspect is great in those.

[@mr_boom105]

CONGRATS ON SYDNEY! Fantastic video!

[@JasonSmithPsychedelicTherapist]

How have I never seen your channel before? This is a great review, but better than that, I'm glad I found your channel!

[@basc.8752]

Good video / subject. And congrats with the extension of the NPI family. Welcome Sidney 😊

[@ctrosejr]

It sounds like Diplomacy mixed with a modern euro. Fascinating.

[@jecabreradc]

Thanks Efka. Great nuanced conversation. Really appreciate it.

[@sevencoloredmage8726]

I believe in a lot of game groups or clubs, if a game doesn't hit on the first play, it will not get a second chance.

[@bdgza]

Reminds me of Absolute War where players were complaining that WW2 Eastern Front has been done every which way and there’s nothing new or exciting. Along comes Absolute War with a radical new way of doing WW2 Eastern Front and people complaining it’s too difficult to grasp because it’s so different from what we’re used to already.

[@Cipriboris]

Nucleum has been, with Phoenix, the two big discovery in euros this year for me. Pretty much fantadtic games with well thought dessings

[@torelaursen4139]

Eurogames fall in two main categories The modern category, which Pampero definetly is in. Think very low on interaction, often rules heavy, focus on private playerboards or private tableaus. All in all multiplayer solitaire modern eurogames. The OG category aka. German games. In the beginning of this video we see some good examples. Brass, Hansa T and Iwari. Those often have alot of interaction and often direct interaction. They are also more rules light and rely on the players to balance the game. Because of the high degree of interaction the replayability is often infinite.

[@MarioLiterario]

This review literally emphasized how Pampero is, essentially, a negotiation game and therefore incredibly dependant on direct player interaction...

[@torelaursen4139]

​@@MarioLiterario It looks like a classic "kitchen sink" modern Lacerdask euro game. Busy private player boards, a hoist of mechanisms and a loooong teach.

[@jonbeckettschreiber52]

Delightful review and good insight on how things in the euro game space are not really changing. And sometiems we don't want that change.... which is bad? Or is it good? It's complicated, right? Thanks for the video!

[@jamesjacobthomson6198]

Very much looking forward to Sydney's take on the latest Feld, Suchy, Pfister and Rosenberg games after Essen. Good to finally have some fresh perspectives on NPI! Not that Bessie has ever steered me wrong, mind you.

[@Chris-tp2sc]

The loan in Pampero isn't bad. I've played the game many many times. A first action loan is one of the strongest plays.

[@tiberiusdw]

I believe Euros are stagnating because, at heart, most of them are at heart abstract optimization puzzles with little else to motivate them but "be the best optimizer", and there are really only so many ways to do that before you're just rearranging deck chairs. Not all people want to play games that leave them feeling clever (or not so clever) and little else. Designers who don't engage meaningfully with theme and/or setting and create mechanisms that mesh with them can end up with perfectly workable, and even elegant ones. But too many of today's heavy Euros expect players to expend a crap-ton of mental energy simply for the goal of earning the most victory points, and I think it's a dead-end--not only from a design point of view, but also commercially.

[@klapaucius7339]

I think this is one of your best reviews. Thanks for really digging into this. It also got me to thinking...Could the stagnation in part be because we have a hobby that is predominately in Europe and North America? Could some of the risk taking in this game be due to the designer being from Uruguay, who is perhaps not quite as locked into the assumptions of "typical" game design? I don't know, but it is an interesting question. I picked up a really intriguing game a while back called Derrocar, mainly because the theme, Argentinian politics, was not the standard fare and stood out to me. The designer, Bruss Brussco, is a first-time designer. Perhaps we need as a hobby to start highlighting those "off the radar" games more.

[@afaulconbridge]

Very much enjoyed watching Sydney bite the hand that feeds them at the same time as Efka stating that they don't take handouts from publishers.

[@Reid52]

Excellent video. I think that Euros are having a strange impact on the market and on player expectations, and I'm glad to see more discourse on the topic. I personally would like to see an industry shift away from Euros and more exploration of weird concepts. And you made an essay that perfectly encapsulates the thoughts I'm having!

[@saplaneguy]

16:15 one argument i've made for years is that games should ALWAYS be showing players the intended direction by the rulebook, or even better the design. Not just for "unconventional"... a new player to eurogames don't know convention in the first place, so what is convention for some of us might be novel to them.

[@CarlosRodriguez-ez3ls]

One of the most interesting board game reviews I've ever seen. I still don't know if this game is any good but I'll remember this video 'til the day I die. Thx!

[@sirguy6678]

Excellent analysis! Remember- if some is good (or popular) a lot is better!

[@stowcreek1999]

Brilliant and detailed analysis per usual... thank you

[@ProvenParadox]

I play an occasional video game that I think hits me the same way this hit you. It's doing something different, something interesting, something compelling, but ultimatly falls apart. Isolating the flaws and figuring out *why* is a great way to create new game design ideas. That kind of thing is way more entertaining to me than a game that's just "pretty good."

[@henryrodriguez6260]

Thank you Efka for expressing your opinion of Euros. I have felt this way about Euro games since 2017/18. In my experience, as an omni gamer (except for abstracts), the place to find innovation in boardgaming are mainly among historical “wargames” (both traditional [e.g. Nevsky, Atlantic Chase, Navajo Wars] and those that explore non-military conflict [e.g. 1979, No Motherland Without, Churchill) and some in Ameritrash/thematic games (e.g. Earthborn Rangers, John Co., This War of Mine). Since that date I have stayed at the periphery of Eurogames, dipping my toes and looking around for something new and exciting. The pickings have been pretty slim.

[@JoshuaLivie]

As a war gamer, I would say that there is some innovation, and some replication of chits and hexes. Those are innovative systems you mention though.

[@henryrodriguez6260]

@@JoshuaLivie It is unquestionable that games continue to be produced that iterate on existing wargame mechanics and themes.

[@BrettspielDude]

Very good take on Pampero! Thanks!

[@chiproush7480]

Welcome Sydney! And we still love you, Bessie

[@julianbailey2749]

Loved the Fray Bentos review. Also introduced my play group to San Juan and Bohnanza tonight, both old classics going down well. I'm thinking that the mark of a good game is based on the number of interesting decisions that you get to make rather than the brain burning complexity of those decisions. p.s. If you want to see the ultimate in negotiation games, look at Genoa. Massively underrated as it needs just the right group to shine, but when it does, it's genius.

[@SheikYoboddi]

Thanks Efka. This video has cemented you as my favourite board game KZbinr (sorry to the others). I would say that it's a shame the community doesn't seem to embrace the imperfect games that are trying something new but I understand. However, you aren't gushing over each new release like it's the best thing ever but actually taking time to make reasonable conclusions about games and the hobby in general. It's refreshing. Nuance is important. Keep up the good work!

[@HeyImBode]

Recently, it kinda hit me just how talented and elevating it is for a game to have Ian O'Toole on board. Like, I could spot one such game and I could praise it for it. But it REALLY sinked in just how great it is. But at the same time, some of the games being serviced by it have a knack for going in specific directions I would disagree with in principle. It's hard for me to know if these monstrous games have a moment where I can confidently say the emerging game is great. It's easy for me to know I love being in this hobby in part for the novelty & context switching. I get some insane double think because of this. I can be charmed by the exploration of a system that "leads nowhere in the end" for it's own sake. But i'll have like a single play of Ra and suddenly think the fun is going to be there on the 1st game. I'm torn, obviously weird ideas that may be for their own sake are someone else's launching point for revisiting. Something great can emerge from them or re-centering at most.

[@elmacho7464]

Great video, amigo! 😃

[@cwb95k]

I like the idea of what it is trying to do. The hard part is if it is going to be worth the $160 required to get it to the table. I wonder how you'd compare this to Coffee Traders? There does seem to be a similar vibe with regard to promoting cooperative play while vying for resources and area control.

[@videk_online]

Was loking forward to an in depth look at this one. Thanks for the great work!

[@JonathonV]

Am I the only one who’s NOT feeling Euro fatigue? SUSD said the same thing on their review on Golem a while back: that they can’t recommend any new Euro games any more because they all feel the same. I completely disagree! I think we’re in the heyday of Euro games! 😀 Board gaming has been my main hobby for 12 years or so, and these days I’m playing a new heavy Euro every week or two (one of my game groups has a heavily cycling collection). And with most of the most Euros I’m seeing out there, I’m really excited to be doing the gaming I’m doing! As for Pampero, I quite liked it. I also love Nucleum. I don’t think they feel the same. If anything, Nucleum feels like Brass or Autobahn, but each of those games has something great to contribute and doesn’t need to justify its existence. Am I going to suggest that you buy every Euro you see on crowdfunding? Of course not. But just because we have more choice and because we see mechanics that remind us of other games, doesn’t mean that we should not be telling other people of the great experiences we’re having, or saying that people shouldn’t try certain games if they’ve already tried a similar one. If anything, having games to compare a new game to will help people find the game that’s perfect for their tastes! Some of the best heavy Euros are recent, in my opinion. I feel grateful to play so many of them!

[@MrRowy20]

Great review - i backed this one on Kickstarter, i have a bit of an affintity with games centred in the energy generation industry due to my work. Super keen to get this off my shelf of opportunity, albeit, probably mostly solo.

[@SquibbyJ]

Dog rocks. Really big fan of your buddy in the background

[@utkphilobio]

You guys are simply the best!

[@JoshOBryan]

i'm always a fan of spending money to do things, but it's also victory points. that's a great mechanism

[@ColasTeam]

I remember a lot of people in the national group chats talking about this game as it was coming out due to the designer being Uruguayan (I'm from Argentina, but there's a lot of brother-ish feeling with Uruguayans in Buenos Aires), but I hadn't paid too much attention to it because the price and theme didn't interest me. Weirdly enough, even tho your conclusion isn't super positive, your review has actually convinced me that this game I'd all but forgotten about is worth a shot!

[@skrotnisse8396]

Thanks for a great review (as always). You saved me a buy since i hate this type of deal making :)

[@EgeTunca]

same :D

[@jimw2633]

Here is "JimB" 😀: My fellow players and I do like epic wargames (e.g. TI4), which often include some dealmaking aspect. So that's fine for us. But what we found disappointing is that Pampero comes with all the heavy-Euro mechanisms (resource management, card upgrading, additional point conditions etc) but then all of that appears actually pointless (pun not intended). With some streamlining and clarification on the intend Pampero could have been a good negotiation-Euro hybrid, just as pointed out by Efka...

[@snaggy13]

I feel like you are really hitting the nail on the head. There is a lag in the industry, lately. Not getting the blockbusters of a few years ago. Also, money is tighter now. I would rather get one game a year and play it more. It's hard to get to the table a lot.

[@JoeTheGons]

A great review on the game and probably the state of games. I've played Pampero twice and eager to play it more. Too bad it's so polarizing and difficult to get into that it rarely gets out on the table.

[@Norm-R]

I'm glad you mentioned price, because I do think unique designs are interesting and I am definitely apt to give them a go. But at that price tag its hard to justify if my group completely bounces off of it.

[@AdamDundon]

Taking a bite of that pie earned my like

[@ComteJaner]

Nuclear energy is sexier than all energies

[@communitywoodworking9370]

Still loving your videos and reviews but got to admit I'm missing Elaine's screen presence!

[@neilwalker4277]

Was going to say Vindication (the game where they looked up the wrong word in the dictionary then doubled down saying it's not Redemption) as a fantastic and different euro, but it's 6 years old now 😮 Nucleum is just a Brass copy with new art.

[@fleazapp]

Best intro this year! Please, we need to be more vocal about this industry saturating. For me, I only buy games that stood test of time. From 2023 only White Castle comes to my mind

[@partymeeple5633]

This made me cast my mind back to the point we all realized the FIRST player in Twilight Imperium 3rd ed would win in about 6 turns if the rest of us did not make sure we beat them first. Thank you Imperial Card for not letting our game drag. +20 plays later, we still enjoy this occasional day around the table...

[@NoPunIncluded]

Omg yes, ive just been writing about the TI3 cycling for another video!

[@Farbulous007]

Unsurprisingly, this review very well mirrors my thoughts and experience with this game. Another example of Kickstarter games with a lot of hype, excellent production values, but lackluster gameplay.

[@gavkenny]

That was quite the self sacrifice eating that Frey Bentos pie.

[@jeppekjr4618]

Great video Efka!

[@jacobmartin9679]

I played this with my 11yo on the weekend and it says something about the rulebook that he was able to teach it to himself. We really enjoyed the play, and are looking forward to exploring it further

[@Rik77]

Really interesting video. I have definitely noticed some group think on bgg where euro games are dismissed if it doesnt play out like all euro games on the first game. I think youtube reviewers have accidentally contributee to this (not you though i will say). Most video reviews cover the same points about ganes and the same kinds of thungs are neg/pos.

[@demonicbunny3po]

This game seems neat. Not sure if I should try it with my group, but I’m still feeling out my group as well.

[@SPQRKlio]

Hello, Sydney!

[@MrVurtan]

Great video. Was really interesting to hear your oppinion about the game and the Euros as a whole (just discussed this with friends on the weekend as well). And of course: Hello Sidney!

[@Illusionator]

Lovely work 😊

[@TheViperZed]

Wait the wheeling and dealing and duping the bank sounds just like the real building industry.

[@paulworthen9972]

It's hard to remember the last time a Euro came out that I felt was better than Feast For Odin or Terraforming Mars. While there have been some innovative designs recently, none of them really hit me the same way.

[@johnathanrhoades7751]

Anachrony and Lisboa were pretty good. But yeah. I buy more games like Arcs than I do like Pampero these days. I have enough amazing Euros that I really don’t feel the need for more. White Castle kind of looks compelling, though.

[@paulworthen9972]

@@johnathanrhoades7751 I love Lisboa, but it’s from 2017 I think so not exactly a new design. I tried Barrage at PAX last year, that seemed pretty decent

[@noahallen5829]

Brass: Birmingham?

[@paulworthen9972]

@@noahallen5829yes… although FFO and TM are 2016, and BB is a 2018 release. In my head, they’re the same vintage.

[@ManusNoble1988]

I've really struggled to find any Euro game that excites me. Even ones that I can tell are mechanically great, like Great Western Trail, Concordia......they're just not actually exciting experiences when compared to all the other types of games that are out there. When I invite people over, I want to give them the most fun evening possible, and for me that is never a Euro game. I really really wish I liked them more!

[@KingSardine]

What games do you even play then, zombiecide?

[@ManusNoble1988]

@@KingSardine Undaunted, burgle bros, nemesis, ra, space base, planet x, inis, cosmic encounter, paperback, heat, arcs, catacombs, sheriff of nottingham, sky team, whitehall mystery, bargain quest, arboretum, decrypto, telestrations, diamante, long shot, monikers, cockroach poker, blood on the clocktower, rising sun, men at work, quest for el dorado, hive, ghost stories, fugitive, sabotage, cubitos, forgotten waters, chinatown……..want me to go on? I don’t get your point……

[@Elm0xz]

@@ManusNoble1988 Then maybe you are just into ameri games and dudes on the map

[@NoPunIncluded]

I think maybe let's consider that the spectrum of game genres is a bit broader than an ancient bgg feud would have you believe.

[@Sketch1396]

Now that I know that brown meeples in Gallerist are better I doubt I can ever look at that game the same.

[@citriccomics]

Hi Sidney! 👋❤

[@prestonlawson1219]

Just idly jumping in because saw video as I was scrolling, and god, it is really weird.....I'm friends with the owner of APE Games, the publisher, who brought this game over for us to test out with him a bit before he took it to a convention.....a year or two ago, just to make sure he knew how to play it properly and check for any major issues, and so seeing a game being talked about by one of the big review channels I got to playtest like that is just kinda interesting.

[@matejlieskovsky9625]

This reminds me of Container. Both due to the weird gameplay and due to the expensive components.

[@TheTabletopMisfits]

If it takes 4 playthroughs and consulting BGG to decide it doesn't suck....

[@quesoblanco444]

I'm only aware of Pampero, because Amazon pushes the expansion so aggressively, and I always think, Cool! A game about big cats!

[@rjanbarrethdanielsen9396]

Great review!

[@NimrodPriell]

Sidney is so adorable! ❤

[@markstanley4836]

In what world are windmills sexier than nuclear power plants?

[@PestiferousJoe]

I can't fault the game for what the players do. It's also easy to say no negotiating at the start. That being said you raised some good points.

[@calebbarnhouse496]

You absolutely have to, if a game has problems people will exploit it, part of the job of a game desighner is to prevent exploits

[@PestiferousJoe]

​@@calebbarnhouse496 well both games that I've played players haven't done this so 🤷

[@calebbarnhouse496]

@@PestiferousJoe and I'm sure that would work in a single environment, but not in most, let alone all of them

[@VaultBoy13]

Imagine if board gamers had recognized that Euro was akin to the British Invasion for music. So, rather than a genre, it was design shift. And, you know, these economy engine games could be appropriately put in a genre instead of being compared to games that are really nothing like it. Instead the Euro term was warped to just encompass anything with wooden bits and low randomness. This isn't to say we can't have "Euros" that are just good or fine or mediocre or bad. But, the genre is lump of games barely related by a vague notion of what it means to be a "Euro."

[@raymyers700]

I think you hit SO many nails on the head in terms of current euro game development and the dance with designer/developer/publisher and we, the customers. The business wants to create a hot game...but they NOW have to do the following: it has to be different yet the same. It has to be good components but not TOO great. And (probably my biggest gripe) it has to have a BIG sense of discovery (big decks of cards, lots of boards, lots of expansions) or else it will be viewed as dull, but not a table hog or too 'fiddly'.

[@nikunjshah8035]

What about Hegemony? Was curious on your thoughts

[@davidk6269]

Cue Apocalypse Now's Col. Kilgore: “I love the smell of Euro games in morning……it smells like: victory points!”😅😂

[@alexandermee989]

2:38 what a quixotic thing to do

[@stephenfarrell8587]

Oh dear, my hopes for this game being pretty much how you described it if the design/publisher side had been effective contributors dashed... Sometimes it's handy when I don't get beyond unboxing a game😁. I mean, I bought it to mainly play solo with anyway...didn't I, sigh!? All the best.

[@camipco]

Is this about to be talking about how amazing Daybreak is???

[@Tharukan]

This game looks like a movie-prop for an overcomplicated modern board game kinda.

[@Brighton24601]

“Pie in a can” sounds like peak British cuisine.

[@jeffgoggin1394]

This reminds me of the reception of the final boss of the link to the past rogue like

[@BryanWinston-g7b]

My struggles with the game aren't the things you've called out. The beginning of the game is rote as is the end. Thats hard to overcome.