40k Isn't THAT Overpowered

[@pancreasnowork9939]

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[@thejuiceking2219]

i will say, 40k features my favourite example of weaponising time travel a dark age of technology weapon that would send the target back a few nanoseconds into the past, where the two basically telefrag one another, that's fricking cool also, if i remember right Stephen Baxter actually did work on Warhammer 40k a bit. shame he didn't stick around, would be interesting to see what he would've done with the setting

[@thejuiceking2219]

also, Red Dwarf technology i know it's a sitcom and it's not at all serious, but you actually look at the tech there and it's genuinely insane

[@Danielzabojca]

Nice, going to use that! Also, why no HTTPS?!

[@thejuiceking2219]

@@Danielzabojca what's that?

[@theavatarofinsanity]

For some reason, I feel compelled to mention the cthulhu mythos and the "Character" Azathoth. Who by himself could quite literally destroy the entire setting of 40k by simply waking up from his afternoon nap.

[@Hammer1987]

I remember a long, long time ago on a sci-fi forum called Spacebattles someone once asked "How many hobbits are needed to kill a space marine?" After some discussion an answer was agreed upon: "One, at sufficient velocity." Ahh, good times.

[@OldTownCrab]

How many Relativistic Kill Vehicles could Terra take before it cracked into bits

[@HaloDrwhoSG1SGASGU]

It's weirdly comforting hearing this out in the wild. "One at sufficient velocity" Coincidentally, I'm about 90% certain this creator is familiar with SB, as his opinions line up with general consensus (from what I recall) and the fact he knows about the goddamn *Xeelee Sequence*

[@HaloDrwhoSG1SGASGU]

​​​@@OldTownCrabOne, at sufficient velocity.

[@OldTownCrab]

@@HaloDrwhoSG1SGASGU In this case, one of sufficient mass at sufficient Velocity (99.99999999% c)

[@palladin1337]

@@OldTownCrab Nah, there's supposed to be a new god brewing on that planet. You wanna make sure it's dead, you double-tap it.

[@Dogmelter42]

40k is like the Texas of sci-fi/fantasy. Everything is just bigger. Not necessarily more powerful, but certainly bigger.

[@mcmarkmarkson7115]

Hm I don't really know any universe that could deal with chaos even if it had more powerful individuals. 40k is not only op because of some godlike powers someone has, but also mental weakness being able to just kill/corrupt you so easily in that setting. Chaos gods would have a field day with super heroes.

[@jgblkshot8375]

​@@mcmarkmarkson7115 here we fucking go again

[@berilsevvalbekret772]

​@@mcmarkmarkson7115 hahahhahahaha!!!! No.

[@Campaigner82]

You mean all the fat people? 😆

[@mcmarkmarkson7115]

@@jgblkshot8375 nothing is incorruptible is the point of 40k!

[@2Potates]

Turning half of a population into food and selling it back to the other half is something Davros did in the old Doctor Who series.

[@janehrahan5116]

The daleks killed a race of immortal god killers, winning so hard even the doctor could only bring it to a tie. Even if they were nice and played conventionally high time war daleks have more population than all of 40k combined.

[@ananonymousnerd.2179]

@@janehrahan5116 Not to mention the existence of the Reality Bomb. They almost CANONICALLY killed 40K (and all other franchises), and had to be stopped by local protagonists.

[@camcrock347]

@@ananonymousnerd.2179 Source? Haven't heard of this before and would love to know more.

[@manofconstantgold]

@@camcrock347 Long story short, in the episodes “Stolen Earth” and “Journey’s End” The Doctor and several other characters have to stop Davros and the Daleks from detonating a reality bomb which would completely obliterate all matter in every universe and reality which was not Dalek in origin, even going across timelines and alternate realities. Needless to say, the activation of this superweapon was indeed stopped.

[@cataclysmusultimus]

@@janehrahan5116 And the daleks and davros don’t even (or just barely) reach top 10 most powerful species and creatures in the dr omniverse

[@Ded-Nside3825]

The vision of a warlock readying a psychic attack, only for a Viltrumite to casually reappear behind them and rip their spine out mid-sentence sent me

[@IchHassePasswoerter]

Lucius would be my counter-argument. Viltrumites would be nothing but fodder to him, precisely because they'd kill him.

[@augustuslunasol10thapostle]

@@IchHassePasswoerter okay but if we take it seriously they would be mad that lucious was so easy to kill they would take no pride in it hed have to beg slaneesh for another freebie revive

[@trance7443]

​@@IchHassePasswoerter they probably wouldn't even remember killing him 💀

[@theapexsurvivor9538]

Followed immediately by the entire atmosphere parting like the red sea due to the sonic boom produced.

[@Grunk369]

Yeah but if we’re being real any chaos god would obliterate them even if they can’t turn them to their side. They’re weak to the scourge virus so nergal could probably wipe them out, and khorne is just simply more powerful than an adult viltrumite. Even primarchs can be argued as stronger though with how many contradictory feats they have it’s hard to say.

[@TheUndeadslayer221]

Honestly, the only Chaos faction that can fight Omniman and win is Nurgle; In Canon, Omniman's entire race is vulnerable to a plague and Nurgle does love his plagues

[@0ghma_]

Papa Nurgle would give automatic Princehood to whichever mortal could replicate and improve the Scourge virus.

[@georgekerscher5355]

Slaanesh, specifically Emperor's Children with Noise Marines, would have a potential advantage too; assuming they could figure out *which* frequency incapacitates Viltrumites, that would give a tool for them to use. Whether Slaanesh's forces would be able to capitalize off of this weakness with weapons that can pierce, cast a spell that could kill them or corrupt them, or kill a viltrumite remains to be seen

[@consolescrub4031]

Hmm. I feel like Tzeentch could theoretically do it but there would be a lot of rituals which fail to significantly impede the Viltrumite as they don't particularly care about things like being aged a couple of thousand years before they remove the face of the offending sorcerer. I think Magnus started unravelling Vulkan's molecular structure in one of the books and was only stopped because he was casting in warhammer range so assuming something like that can be done from a couple of solar systems away, it might be an option. We know from a certain storyline that nearly pure Viltrumites can be taken out by being thrown into alternate dimensions so that one move Ahriman did to the Ynnari where he dumped them in the warp would probably buy you a very long time at least. I don't think Khorne could do it as planet destruction is already something Viltrumites have done and while they have a vulnerability to extreme heat, I don't think any daemons we've seen in setting produce heat of a similar level to the sustained heat from a sun.

[@brenttebaronda4537]

@@georgekerscher5355 good counter but it doesn’t do much to literally speed blitzing the noise marines before they could strum a beat off their Metallica guitars. Plus if that doesn’t work just break the planet lol.

[@georgekerscher5355]

@brenttebaronda4537 You may not even need noise marines once the frequency is found, at least to capitalize off of utilizing the frequency to disorient Viltrumites to even the odds/use as set up to kill one if not ideally multiple of them. Remember, they're fast but not nearly as fast as Superman The Viltrumites aren't gonna want to destroy planets if they're still usable though, so it's not as if they're going to destroy a planet each and every time they find EC/Slanneshi corruption. They're an empire first and foremost

[@crabbowiththestabbo]

My personal explanation is that as soon as Warhammer crosses over into any other universe, it has to deal with the fact that Pyrrhic victories are really bad for long term survivability. Edit: I apologize for using the term “outerversal” I didn’t know it was a thing.

[@thewolfbloodwarrior8788]

That is some great logic. In 40k, the pyrrhic victories are quickly set aside by its own plot armor. But once out of universe, those same pyrrhic victories will quickly become a detriment and then they will be forced to commit ultra heresy. Come up with a new strategy that does not involve throwing meatshields at the problem till it goes away

[@clan741]

@@thewolfbloodwarrior8788thank god they have guilleman and the lion to help reintroduce basic strategies to them.

[@thewolfbloodwarrior8788]

@@clan741 Don't be heretic! The correct term is 'Thank The God Emperor'

[@Nykandros]

The reason 40k is considered so OP is because the STANDARD is much higher than that of other verses. Sure, other verses might have more OP things when you get to their most powerful characters; but 40k is OP on the BASIC level more than any of those verses. Compare an average war in Halo vs that of 40k, and see the sheer difference in extremity & scale; even though Halo has more powerful entities once you start scaling up.

[@Silungar]

@@Nykandros True, 40k's scale is pretty high (as long as the writers get the numbers right and don't have solar system spanning conflicts with less casualties than ww2 again), however one thing that keeps it (and by "it" I mean specifically the Imperium of Man) back, is it's relatively low tech level - especially compared to any other galaxy-sized setting. For example: an Imperial battleship might be almost twice the size of a Starcraft battlecruiser, but the Starcraft ship has a solid 40% of it's mass dedicated to what is essentially a nuke-railgun, while the 40k ship has its cannons manually loaded by slaves...

[@SlaaneshiChosen_Carmena]

In the book The Quantum Thief, there is a gun that ships fire that break down the opposing ship and crew down particle by particle and replace it with identical particles except loyal to the side that fired it. This weapon is mentioned in passing in a single sentence as an example of obsolete weaponry.

[@isaac4800]

wtf????????

[@Hust91]

I wonder how a particle expresses loyalty.

[@kingdom8769]

ahahah this is crazy

[@dylutant]

​@@Hust91it simply isn't entangled with the wrong crowd

[@SlaaneshiChosen_Carmena]

For reference that setting is advanced enough that individual particles can be given sentience. People do things like forcibly give a wall sentience then threaten to remove it if the wall doesn’t become a door to bypass a defense system and stuff

[@user-bl6oj1hl8i]

People are real quick to forget that despite being weaker next to Goku and Vegeta, Krillin is still capable of easily destroying a planet. We just don't pay it any mind because he hangs with people like Goku. It's why the concept of him being a police officer is so damn laughable. Imagine trying to run away and some bald dude just lifts your fucking car up with one hand and drops the bullets you fired at him with his other hand.

[@requiemlul3140]

Hell, Mr.Satan might be able to kill a Space Marine. The guy can pull bussed with his bare hands without any cheap tricks.

[@user-bl6oj1hl8i]

@@requiemlul3140 That's a concerning concept. A universe in which Mr Satan is a threat.

[@kingawesome5219]

I think the weakest a Dragon Ball character has to be to blow up a planet is around Roshi’s strength since he blew up the moon

[@DatAsianGuy]

@@kingawesome5219 didn't Piccolo blow up the moon?

[@kingawesome5219]

@@DatAsianGuy In Z, yeah

[@DCAMM720]

I love that Stellaris was included here. I often think "I'm so powerful in this run that 40K would be jealous."

[@nokkz7307]

Always thinking of 40k when I play

[@JoshuaKevinPerry]

Who here hasn't looked to the stars and thought, I can turn alien life into food and sell it.

[@fiendish9474]

Considering Krork Attack Moons were such a threat to the Imperium, Gigastructures' Stellar Systemcraft must be an extinction weapon

[@sixthcairn]

GalCiv is pretty broken too.

[@tincano-beans2114]

​@fiendish9474 the necron do have an explode sun button level of tech...

[@Imsleepeebruh]

"Don't forget Zen-Oh who could just decide 40k has lost universe existing privileges" Dude i fuckin love this guys comedic talent

[@dodojesus4529]

Or buu, fat buu would just chill on a planet and turn a country or five into food every couple months. Kid buus invading the warp to blow it up aswell

[@killermacho444]

@@dodojesus4529nah chaos gods are a representation of concepts that exist in our reality, if you kill them physically they will revive, if you want to truly kill them you would need to destroy the entire concept the represent, I mean you would need to kill every version of them in every fictional universe and even in our reality wich is just impossible

[@sinkabutitsyoutube409]

You forgot warhammer 40k’s secret weapon. Ungodly amounts of plot armour for named characters and helmetless space marines.

[@grumpycat6429]

That helmetless part hits hard. I always knew deep down something was as off about that. Like bro….your forehead…. Bullets: 🗿where

[@zoro115-s6b]

Magnets Calendar beats up Vegeta somehow, experts remain baffled.

[@sernoddicusthegallant6986]

Xelee may act gangster with their multiversal scale reality defying weapons, but just wait till an ultramarine without a helmet written by matt ward shows up.

[@henrykkeszenowicz4664]

Star Wars has those pesky smugglers and pirates with no armor and no helmets who wipe the floor with professional troops. Pretty sure that Imperial Guardsmen and some Space Marines would miss them as badly as the Stormtroopers due to similar amounts of plot armor

[@valletas]

wonder woman can literally make plot armor Im not joking or making this up she makes one to fight the batman who laughs

[@HellishSpoon]

"can emperor beat goku?" i paused for second with a blank expression, looking at nothing "No"

[@liamohman7426]

Yuh uh, warp spaghetti scaling

[@Meme-Weeb-Dweeb]

I see your warp sphaggeti and raise you big ork

[@HammerDownFellas]

@@Meme-Weeb-DweebI raise you even bigger Ork

[@zeehero7280]

Probably. he doesn't have to even fight him to win. Not in a straight physical fight, even when he wasn't a skeleton. But in a mind battle, absolutely.

[@pillarmenn1936]

If we're talking about a terrible father competition, Emps clears without diffculty.

[@Mordikay211]

Horned Rat wakes up monday morning in 40k: "Oh looks like we won and created paradise".

[@allenbettis8558]

😂😂😂😂😂

[@Biotear]

He then wanders over to Cegoracht and they laugh it up for a bit until he gets bored and makes space Skaven

[@Mordikay211]

@@Biotear To be fair the Imperium is pretty much the Skaven of 40k.

[@Dantaroen]

@@Biotear Aren't the skaven already present. Just lives in the underhives not really doing much other than scavenging tech?...For now atleast.

[@Biotear]

@@Dantaroen i hope

[@squidlump]

My personal favorite character who can “solo” 40k is definitely Kirby since he’s the perfect philosophical opponent to the 40k setting. He’s an uncurroptable being of pure positivity and goodness possessed of limitless power and adaptability and a strong enough sense of justice to actually accomplish stuff. He’s like the positive interpretations of the four chaos gods made manifest and can conceivably begin the process of uncorrupting the warp by hyper speeding around and doing good. It’s hilarious and would pretty much be what Kirby already does in his own series.

[@silentshadow9983]

Just imagining the reaction the different factions would have had rolling on the ground. And that’s not mentioning how Kirby isn’t even 3 in. Tall. (Could be remembering wrong don’t quote me)

[@squidlump]

@@silentshadow9983 it was in an interview for dreamland 3, a game where Kirby is shown to be about half or a third of Samus aran’s height. It was also repeated in a trophy description in super smash bros melee. So technically that’s the best we have on a canon stated height but most depictions hover between 2-3 feet with some dips into 1 foot tall.

[@NaokiKurogra]

@@squidlump Mmmm, his height changes over the series a lot. Like in 64, where Shiver Star is supposed to be Earth, and he's roughly 6 in. tall when scaling him compared to some of the stuff around him.

[@MPHJackson7]

I belive there were some people on TV Tropes who speculated that the Tyranids are running away from Kirby.

[@megamente7849]

Disagree, gods like the Big E can take kirby

[@dinodude6992]

The moment stellaris was brought up, my mind immediately jumped to the blokkats and their appetite of eating galaxies

[@indrickboreale7381]

I wonder what Warhammer 40k shall do against System Craft shooting at them

[@samueltheslime1125]

The Aeternum from Gigastructures would also just be a little silly, they took ALL THREE ascension paths basically. They’re all psionic, genetically engineered and biologically modified to become more perfect than a primarch, and then receive cybernetics so advanced that the Adeptus Mechanicus would shit themselves. Not to mention they have a Birch World, a structure so immense that it’d make the Necrons jealous. Plus they can scramble FTL travel like nothing, isolating themselves for millions of years. I still love opening the Galactic Core and seeing my friends die because of the dozens of planet craft they have.

[@maddlarkin]

The few mentions of Dark Age tech come on a par, a ship whose weapons batteries shoot miniaturised blackholes and targeting that rewinds time to score a hit, sun snuffers, nanites that eat planets as effectively as Tyranids and constructs able to bite through reality converting what they destroy to digital information and leaving holes in reality... 40k may not be that OP, but mid-20k, that's a whole different matter :-)

[@NotNonamelol]

They say the Tyranids are running from something… if that something is the blokkats, the galaxy‘s fucked

[@thisguyoverhere6572]

The Blokkats in lore are building something so massive in a light year radius that it masses about 300 BILLION Milky Way galaxies and is apparently the cosmic phenomenon known as the great attractor with about 1% of the mass in the known universe in it. The Gigastructures mod is something else.

[@joshuawilson8804]

40k has a bad habit of not understanding scale. Read anything when their casualties were considered major... Only for our real world's casualties to be far worse. Also 1000 Marines for a chapter is laughably small.

[@papapalps2415]

If you nitpick examples, sure.

[@ashdog9235]

Considering my play throughs of battle sector and dawn of war would have crippled 2 entire chapters I do think the chapter size needs to be at least 10x

[@icipher6730]

Considering the power of a single Space Marine, a thousand Astartes are worth multiple regiments of Imperial Guard. If not more.

[@killsode4760]

​@@icipher6730 And at the end of the day it's still only a thousand men. That's in reality not even enough to properly defend a planet on their own even if they killed literally everything by just existing within a hundred meters if it. There is simply too much ground to cover with too few bodies.

[@Reznore587]

All I’m saying is that guilliman couldn’t stand a chance against the sexual tyrannosaurus

[@s.k4713]

Well tbf he’s got a mini gun. And a brilliant moustache.

[@joaogabrielsilvadarosa9734]

... The... what?

[@scooberscat1357]

Don Frye?

[@indrickboreale7381]

@@joaogabrielsilvadarosa9734 [Short man starts shooting with Grog Noozle and Unkempt Harold]

[@reaperaf9511]

​@@joaogabrielsilvadarosa9734 blaine from predator 1. The guy with the minigun. Played by jesse ventura. Says a line involving the words "goddamn sexual Tyrannosaurus" in the very beginning on the helicopter ride into the mission zone.

[@stahlhelmturtle9822]

I always thought that wh40k was kinda funny bc the writers for it desperately want their setting to be huge and overscaled, but they never paid attention in history so they end up with a supposedly hyper devastating gigantic planetary scale battle that has less casualties than the battle of fucking Stalingrad.

[@vonfaustien3957]

Thats not unique to 40k. Master kenobi we have 6 million clones ready to go with another million well on the way. Or in the clone wars cartoon My hand maiden doesnt have power the repiblic must stop its war mongering we simply cant afford to expand the clone army by a few million more troops. And the best part is even in G canon and disney canon the droids number in the trillions to quadrillions.

[@stahlhelmturtle9822]

@@vonfaustien3957 I never said it was unique to 40k lol. I just said it was funny. I feel the same way about star wars since they basically deleted several decades worth of lore and canon in favor of what we now have today.

[@papapalps2415]

@@vonfaustien3957 "And the best part is even in G Canon and Disney canon the droids number in the trillions to quadrillions..." If you wanted to just purely go based off of G-Canon (ala the movies and novelizations and such) then it would be quintillions. And I'm decently sure that is also the case in the new canon too, and it explictly was confirmed in the old canon.

[@emojothejojo]

That's possible but extremely very unlikely

[@KT-pv3kl]

a writer cant write a character more intelligent than himself and neither can a writer write a story that is more educated than himself. sadly many writers arent the smartest or most educated people around and one of the first victims of this lack of intellect is scaling. humans in general are VERY bad at extrapolating exponential correlations and any number with more than 6 zeroes could as well be the same.

[@RunningWithRoses]

one of the main issues nobody really considers about 40k is, ironically, logistics, and speed. In almost every other match up, 40k is crawling while everyone else is sprinting. it can take anywhere between 1-6 months, due to warp, just to travel from Ultramar to Earth. It takes most snubfighters with hyperdrives in star wars a mere 6 hours to go from coruscant to the corporate sector. Communication also takes a long time in 40k, whereas in most systems like star wars its damn near instantaneous. This means that star wars factions, and other space factions with similarly fast FTL speeds, could jump into a 40k system, overwhelm its defenses (which considering in old canon [the most fun canon] star destroyer fleets could comprise as many as 500 capital ships), glass the surface, and repeat this probably 10 times before the Imperium would even be aware its happening, much less muster a response. Not to say that star wars would ultimately win, but it wouldn't be as one sided as everyone thinks, especially considering the death star had a hyperdrive on it. Star wars fleet wants to take out a fleet? well they can mass a huge portion of their ships, annihilate the fleet, and then have a british style tea break and disperse before the call for reinforcements from the imperials even reaches the next poor, stress-ridden psyker listening for disturbances in the warp now I do acknowledge that star wars would get bodied heavier by other factions, specifically the necrons, but I was just using that as an example.

[@MarkLeiderman]

We know a few things about the distances in star wars and distances in WH40k, and the time factor is only there because Milky Way in it's entirety, as is used in 40k, is bigger, and distances are way, way longer. We also know that FTL of starwars, the hyperdrive is not instantaneous. A couple parsecs is a few hours of hyperspace flight, but so this is in 40k. You don't even warp jump for that kind of distance unless it's urgent. Also, there is no indication that these are different FTL technologies. Warp drive and hyperdrive are pretty much exactly the same. However, the 40k's version of the plane through which FTL travel occurs, is infested by powers of chaos. Also, Imperial Star Destroyer's fold like paper and have shield generators on the exterior, in what universe would a fleet of these withstand a barrage from Glory of Macragge or Phallanx, of the named ones... Let alone Death Guard ships like Terminus Est... Bro, the biggest and meanest battlestation in Star Wars history was boomed by a dipshit farmer and an astromech in an old X-Wing with a couple of guided projectiles, what are you even saying?

[@RunningWithRoses]

@@MarkLeiderman lmao what? bruh, star wars galaxy is only like, 20% smaller than the milky way. and no, dude, both in old and new canon you can travel literally halfway, from galactic 0 to outrim, in around 6 hours with a .6 or better hyperdrive.

[@helloinsertnamehere2]

They would still need to get the stuff to do that stuff which would take a while

[@RunningWithRoses]

@@helloinsertnamehere2 yeah but my point was more just an example of how its not so cut and dry as SOME people, like mark above, thinks. obviously it gets more complicated the more you think about it

[@Noorthia]

@@MarkLeiderman if you dont warp a "couple parsecs" you WILL have to fly for actual years.

[@im2randomghgh]

Supreme Commander shits on 40k as well. Churning out mechs bigger than titans in seconds, being able to convert entire planets into resources for mech production etc

[@GoldenArbiter01]

Huh, I never actually thought of that... 40k would absolutely lose a ground war to SupCom... I'm not 100% on a space war, due to lack of any actual space stuff (excluding seraphim), but like, if a single com somehow ended up on terra, and it wasn't immediately shit upon, it'd have a massive army in a matter of minutes... Turn tyranid bioforms directly into energy, and convert the energy into mass; walk fearlessly towards a titan who's reactor is about to explode and just hit the reclaim button; Void dragon took over some of your things? Make more things.; Titans? Meet orbital space lasers. Basalisks? Meet T3 arty. Ranged weapons? Shields. Nanolathe OP as fuck boiii

[@Darkwings01]

@@GoldenArbiter01 It really puts into perspective how much SupCom fucks when it can take on the Tyranids, bar for bar. It would literally be Swarm vs. Swarm lol

[@GoldenArbiter01]

​ @Darkwings01 Just spam some more t1 factories, duh. I'm also a big fan of the whole... literally infinite resources... Oh, you guys have fusion reactors? Cool, we have an Aeon t3 builder.

[@papapalps2415]

Supreme Commander is probably overwhelmingly dominant over most popular sci-fi franchises, or frankly most sci-fi in general, assuming most or even some of the presumptions people take away from some calculations are true, when it comes to ground combat, yes. Of course, there's also a reason why, as you increasingly climb up the totem pole, so to speak, ground combat becomes less and less relevant and focused upon in stories generally. It's because it increasingly ceases to become relevant as a civilization increases in sophistication and overall 'power'. Space dominance (or, alternatively/also, towards the highest end, time dominance) is what actually matters. Who cares if you can arbitrarily shit out a trillion GIGA-OMEGA-OMGFUL-MECHS a day or second, when they are simply going to get nuked from orbit the moment the other party gets tired of having to deal with it? And that's, really, the issue with SC; space combat, by and large, doesn't seem to meaningfully exist in the setting as a whole, in any real respect, and when/if it does, it evidently doesn't seem to be anywhere even vaguely close to as impressive as their ground combat abilities, because it isn't ever presented as being all that important or relevant. Meaning, they can body many sci-fi factions simply by dint of their hilarious ground advantage mixed with teleporation, but their disadvantages (and there are several, beyond even The Big One with space) doom them against settings or factions that are much, much larger in scale and (in space) power than them. 40k is one of those settings.

[@GoldenArbiter01]

​@@papapalps2415 Counter point: SupCom doesn't focus on space due to it being a video game. I would also imagine that any faction capable of creating portals that allow for instant transportation between anywhere, and anywhere else would *likely* also have a decent amount of space warfare stuff. Or alternatively, when you can turn 'mass' into anything, there is nothing stopping them from turning a planet into a big ol gun. But as far as I'm tracking, there's no lore to support that, nor any lore to debunk it, so... Also: The spiritual successor, Planetary Annihilation (Of which I played once, but didn't really enjoy) has much of the same scaling, but also has space stuff...

[@strolker94]

Also worth noting that entirety of the 40k takes place in one galaxy. There are sci-fi series with universe spanning empires.

[@davidsplooge14]

steven universe's gem-pire will absolutely destroy the imperium.

[@drxtale9446]

*cough cough* The Universal union/Combine… *cough*

[@侍-u1k]

Incorrect pancreas doesn't understand the warp

[@Piotr-u1z]

​@@drxtale9446Universal Union .

[@marley7868]

@@davidsplooge14 oh yeah there empire of what? no seriously how many do they have? cause while I haven't watched it I"d give rita repulsa pretty good odds at matching there threats of the weak by a decent bit

[@toaster8901]

Fun fact: Viltrumites are actually even stronger in the comics. They're a bit nerfed in the show.

[@matthewecho9061]

Ya but aren’t there only like 100 left

[@bajscast]

@@matthewecho9061 50 left

[@spiffygonzales5160]

I love the invincible series, but I've never read the comics. Could you explain to my who people actually put OmniMan on par with the justice League? Like... How does Aquaman not just minefuq his brain or magic him to death? How does flash not just phase his own cells into each other? How does Green Lantern not just make a thousand green omnimans each stronger than OmniMan? And so on. I've heard so much stuff comparing OmniMan to silver&bronze age superman that I'm actually curious if he has any feats or even scaling to get that far?

[@bajscast]

@@spiffygonzales5160 He isn't and he doesn't. Nolan is strong but no viltrumite is as strong the average strength of superman in canons. People will cite things like "Well they blew up a planet", which refers to an incident where three viltrumites fly through the core of a planet to explode it, but are only able to do this due to a powerful beam that can instakill viltrumites destabilizing the core. They outright say that otherwise they'd just die on impact. They're not able to survive in suns either

[@spiffygonzales5160]

@@bajscast See, that's what I figured. Over hype is real these days man.

[@fomod_]

The Grim-Darkness of 40k is that they _USED_ to be overpowered. They may seem overpowered now at a glance, but they were unfathomably more advanced during the Dark Age of Technology, or Golden Age if you will.

[@victorpedrosoceolin3919]

just reminding that the entire setting takes place in a single galaxy, even the daot humans didnt go outside, which puts into question, why?

[@sephiroaone-of-nine101]

Ok and? Plenty of fiction races are like that, it's a cop-out

[@bodricthered]

How do you know that the daot humans didn't get outside the milky way?

[@lostnemesis]

When he brought up DC I was like "oh yeah DC forever could have kicked their ass" because something you need to know if Magnus decides to get all uppity or someone does the same damn thing and goes to Lucifer Morningstar you suddenly have quite a large swath of things that just disappeared 😂

[@wolf2965]

@@victorpedrosoceolin3919Humans didn't, Necrons and Orks apparently did - and Tyranids are literally an extra-galactic threat. Humanity is not everything in 40k.

[@CyberController-]

Warhammer 40k Necrons: We've got a superweapon that detonates stars Doctor Who Time Lords: Almost all of our ships can destroy a star

[@laurentiuvladutmanea3622]

And most insanely of all, all Time Lord ship also double as time machines, and can go everywhere in the cosmos. And have the potential to turn you into a reality warper if you look into their heart. And can also move planets. Time Lords make everything in 40k look like hunter gatherers.

[@papapalps2415]

​​​@@laurentiuvladutmanea3622​ A very amusing quote that is incredibly applicable to almost all cross-universe battles between the Time Lords and almost anyone or anything else is actually one from Doctor Who itself; "The Time Lords were the Type 4 civilization. We had no equals. We controlled the fundamental forces of the entire universe. Nothing could communicate with us on our level. Most races pray to lesser beings than the Time Lords."

[@Overlordough1201]

I propose: Armored Core Where Imperial Knight-sized mechs can move at Mach 1, and where superstructures the size of continents are just made in, at most, a few months.

[@pancreasnowork9939]

“621, there are some strange forces that appear to be dressing their Cores in medieval era finery. Take care of them if you can be bothered, the Coral takes priority.”

[@terrykrugii5652]

​@@pancreasnowork9939 "621, I just finished some last second negotiations with Arquebus. Those 'medieval' forces... they are willing to pay an extra 500 credits for each man you kill. Not because they're a threat, but because somebody in the treasury thinks it'll be funny. I'll let you decide how to proceed."

[@kryvex4996]

After beating it 3 times and seeing the weapon variety, as well as seeing how big and stupid fast the mechs are, I'm convinced the mechs could do some mad damage in 40k

[@侍-u1k]

​@pancreasnowork9939 kzbin.info/www/bejne/gYnTeKKbq892Y5Ysi=fUWryaSlqFf4Ne3v kzbin.info/www/bejne/nnitemevnsaLftksi=A2cBkGyHEiicXvgg These videos automatically debunk this Also in terms of power scaling The warhammer 40k verse scales to High Outerversal to possibly Boundless And those verses you stated above are absolute fodder kindly stop downplaying 40k when you ckearly dont know what youre talking

[@elpito9326]

​@@侍-u1k It's really not that serious

[@snipersougo13]

40k isn't that overpowered compared with itself Every faction is a shell of there former self.

[@tigersebel]

Except the tyranids and the tau i guess

[@snipersougo13]

@@tigersebel true and if they came even close to the others height they would absolutely dominate

[@gampie13]

@@snipersougo13 yes and no, the 40k universe has a weird balancing force written in to it in how krorks/orcs work like a living immune system for things within it's own universe. If the tyranids actually got big enough, the orcs would start becoming krorks again, but then again, krorks are not that scary, seeing as they lost to necrons during the war in heaven

[@snipersougo13]

@@gampie13 not that scary? the Necrons where extremely strong during the WIH and had the full power C'tan on their side

[@cookiecraze1310]

Thing is, if you compare any settings at their "peak", HALO wins pretty much every time since the precursors weren't just chaos god level, they were capital G God level, and there was an entire civilisation of them.

[@nathandavidson7298]

I love how he casually admits that a Necromorph outbreak would be a huge problem that would integrate readily with the setting . He learned a lot from the debate 😂

[@christiandauz3742]

Chaos corrupts the Dead Space Universe Now Horus has more Cannon Fodder Humans and the Necromorphs to use at the Siege of Terra

[@ranbojd1070]

@@christiandauz3742 nah, Brethren moons remain their own thing

[@pancreasnowork9939]

I can assure you I was secretly rooting for Dead Space the entire time

[@nicholasray3749]

I dont think the marker can work on space marines of the of the psyco conditioning

[@thecommentguy9380]

I mean the Marker is a giant fucking headache. It's like the tyranids, except it convert your entire population into crazed psychos the moment they expose themselves to its radiation. Make matter worse, it can convert ANYTHING dead into necros and those fuckers won't stay dead until the Marker deems them ineffective for combat, then it just bring that lump of flesh to build something bigger. Tyranids got a bite out of that? Well tough luck, nids, cos your entire swarm is infected

[@kirinthewanderer5896]

I feel like doctor who has a surprisingly good time against 40k. The time lords are practically unkillable turbo necrons. The daleks almost killed the practically unkillable turbo necrons. Not to mention the black and white guardians and the toymaker are practically chaos gods in and of themselves. I'm at least 99% certain the Osirans are the inspiration for the c'tan (or the nightbringer at least) and I haven't even mentioned literally satan.

[@papapalps2415]

'Suprisingly'...? The Time Lords and the Daleks are some of the most powerful civilizations in the entirety of fiction, flat out, lul. They don't even notice 40k exists.

[@kirinthewanderer5896]

@@papapalps2415 I mean surprisingly insofar as doctor who is a light-hearted family show which Douglas fucking Adams used to be a frequent contributor and about as far from military si-fi as a si-fi show can be and yet the powerful civilizations in the verse make the armies of most si-fi properties look like children's toys. To put it a different way, 40k has tens of billions of soldiers with hyper advanced weaponry, but Doctor Who has a funny man in a box, so none of them stand a chance.

[@nine-tailedfox1243]

I think you should have mentioned the daleks from doctor who. At the height of their power, they managed to fight and nearly defeat a race of what were essentially time traveling gods, who only “won” by removing both races from existence. And who also removed magic from their universe. To put it simply, they have a few feats comparable to 40k

[@human3745]

I’d like to add that the War in Heaven (different from the Time War) in Doctor Who was a war fought throughout the entirety of space time by the Time Lords (who casually made a side dimension out of pure thought and had a celestial orrery, but for the entirety of space-time) and the Enemy, (who’s identity most Time Lords didn’t even know, and who were less an actual species, and more an aspect of reality itself).

[@cataclysmusultimus]

And the daleks don’t even (or just barely) reach top 10 most powerful species and creatures in the dr omniverse

[@iansahleen1173]

They were able to weaponize platonic concepts via the nightmare child and destroy the entire omniverse via the Reality Bomb

[@HydratedBeans]

Yeah but doctor who is goofy, so who cares. Goofy ass trash cans get beaten by a tumblr era skinny steampunk boy wielding a vibrator.

[@christiandauz3742]

Daleks are stupid. Can't even use stairs!

[@jamzee_]

I appreciate mentioning the insane universe of Xeelee, such an underrated book and stories series thats not just grimderp, its grimDARK.

[@xenon3990]

Yea, you think 40k has weird sci fi concepts with the warp and Necrons and their shit like exterminatus and that and then you find out about the xelee who casually use suns as interstellar missiles

[@XraynPR]

​@@xenon3990 The Chaos gods wish they were as hardcore as the Monads

[@edmondroberts8494]

I’m honestly having a full on mental breakdown trying to process all the crazy shit in that series. Like oh my God

[@MisterZimbabwe]

Fun fact: Stephen Baxter, who wrote the Xeelee series, was one of the original writers for 40k. He left Games Workshop around 3rd or 4th edition due to, in his words, "The writing becoming too juvenile".

[@thorshammer7883]

There is also Manifold which introduces the Downstreamers.

[@craneum123]

im very glad you mentioned Xeelee Sequence. I love introducing that special kind of 40k fan who has to sit in discords and go off about how overwhelmingly powerful their setting is to a single Xeelee Nightfighter 💀

[@lelouchvibritannia7809]

You are a hero

[@redjirachi1]

You see them mentioned in a bunch of power scaling videos but there's very little content explaining and detailing the actual lore and stories of it

[@craneum123]

@@redjirachi1 Comes with being a niche hard sci-fi setting i think, the fanbase just isn't there to cultivate a comprehensive wiki and the books themselves can be a bit hard to digest and untangle, though the author does a wonderful job at taking all these incredibly complex theoretical science things and making them understandable to the average reader. I'd really recommend the books, Raft is the first book he ever wrote in that setting and while it doesnt actually contain the titular xeelee at all its still an awesome bit of hardcore sci-fi.

[@thorshammer7883]

I wonder how the Xeelee and the Downstreamers would react to something like the Glory from Doctor Who. That's got to be impressive to them.

[@Conejoazul2018]

I enjoyed the setting but no the stories. I know they are supposed to be grim but i never feel they were showcasing me something grim but rather exlaining it to me.

[@spriggylotus4476]

People are sleeping on Transformers. You've got fleets of cyberformed planets, Decepticon Worldsweepers, Phase-Sixers like Black Shadow and Sixshot who regularly solo worlds as their job, characters with armour made from collapsed stars, Megatron is powered by a black hole with a fusion cannon, quantum engines, space-bridges and time-dilation as usual fare, reality-warping relics like the Matrix and Sword of Primus that can kill the embodiment of evil universes, ftl lasers are seen as bog-standard things people dodge all the time, regular Cybertronians tanking nuclear-level blasts and drops from orbit, multi-billion-year-old sentient cities like Metroplex, astral-planet-gods like Unicron, and Optimus Prime straight up beat Cthulhu. As in, in a head-to-head fight.

[@papapalps2415]

This entirely completely, totally, and utterly depends on continuity, as Transformers varies DRASTICALLY in power depending. There is a unimaginable gap between, say, well, almost every continuity, and the Alternity Transformers. You seem to be referring to IDW, which is also very high up there, so far as I have heard (not terribly surprising, given, well, comic books). On the other hand; the vast, overwhelming majority of continuity's, quite frankly, simply aren't at all very impressive relative to 40k. Most get splattered simply by dint of being irrelevant in numbers and scale.

[@mikd157]

Heck, one estimation I saw for fortress Maximus was that he was 3 KILOMETERS tall. What’s the emperor gonna do against that?

[@papapalps2415]

@@mikd157 Nuke him from orbit...?

[@mikd157]

@@papapalps2415 I meant in a 1v1 you goober

[@papapalps2415]

@@mikd157 Why would the Imperium care about or oblige a TEH LEL EPICZ ONE VZ 1 DUELZ TO TEH DEATHZ, ONE STOCK, FINAL DESTINATION...? That isn't how war actually works, dude, lul. Neat, Maximus can beat a Titan, maybe, if you take a few estimates of his height. And...?

[@Jambonneau826]

This talk of necromorphs in 40k reminds me that Mortarion's homeworld had necromancers but we ended up never getting proper necromancers in 40k. The Imperium justifying the use of necromancy would have been a neat lore point and necromancers could have been an actually original 40k faction / SM Chapter. Before you say Necrons, they have more in common with polar bears than necromancers.

[@sirshotty7689]

They’re probably some form of nurgle worshippers that’s usually the case when it comes to reanimate the dead. I know nurgle has reanimated corpses before. Imagine an army of nurgle cultists that just keep getting back up after dying because they keep getting reanimated by a psyker cultist, that sounds awesome imo.

[@richardround2071]

I would say they took necromancy and split it towards necrons as the soulless undead, and elder, with the ability to use the souls of the dead in war. Id personally like to see the ynnari with more of a necromancy theme, with ethereal troops, more wraithbone constructs and a more necromancy look.

[@weldonwin]

Way back in the day, in the old Necromunda game, there was a character called Karloth Valois who was pretty much straight up a Necromancer. He was a psyker, heavily implied to be dead himself but kept undead by his powers, which allowed him to suck the life out of people to keep himself going and then control his victims as zombies.

[@Oryzaki0]

Necrons are more like the things a necromancer would summon rather than the summoner themselves. Aside from a few unique individuals that from what I remember are basically not around anymore.

[@sentane8031]

Dark Machinicum aren't necromancers in the traditional sense but if Necrons are undead aligned and the DM is famous for the use of Necron tech, among other races, wouldn't that make them the stand in we have to necromancers? sucks tho wish we had some full on skeleton summoning, death dealing, converse with the spiri- wait, every human soul gets eaten by warp entities and that might be why no one can do necromancy.

[@jonathantreleven1823]

I know one name that would make any Warhammer fan boy froth at the mouth: Kirby. This little puff ball is literally a foot tall and could curb stomp any deamon primarch into non-existence. Hell, even the Chaos Gods have nothing on Kirby being he is a force of good so potent that all he needs is the 'power of friendship monolog' to create a laser that could blast a Lovcrafian God into smithereens. And, no, Kirby can't be corrupted by Chaos. He just ignores conventional rules and just be himself no matter what universe he is. Like that one time, there was a universe of evil body doubles, and the bad version of Kirby is just that he is only scared. That. Is. It. Really, he was just a scaredy cat, and it didn't take much pushing for the mirror version of Kirby to help the original, and he still kicked Evil Metaknight's ass. Chaos will not touch him, and I don’t think the Chaos Gods even want to be near him either, it's not even a contest.

[@christiandauz3742]

Kirby is basically Galactus but more powerful, nicer and cuter If Kirby was in Marvel he would be a god above other gods!

[@clonewarsenthusiast5711]

​He can only be pacified by friendship and Strawberry cake. Most Daemons wouldn't dare give Kirby those.​@@christiandauz3742

[@bigburkhart2293]

Kirby would be anathema to the forces of chaos even greater than the Emperor. Not only would Kirby be incorruptible, but his mere presence would make chaos recoil.

[@Sara3346]

On the other hand someone plying him with enough cake toys and videogames would I bet probably be able to keep him distracted from doing anything ad infinitium.

[@tincano-beans2114]

Infinite suck eh? I know someone who has several questions for the suck machine 😮

[@bottasheimfe5750]

I'm a huge Stellaris nerd and literally everything you said about it had me doubled over from laughing so hard

[@berilsevvalbekret772]

Is it a good or bad?

[@indrickboreale7381]

Most space empires in Stellaris function like Warhammer 40k - bad economy that runs on Grand Admiral cheats

[@dodojesus4529]

​@@indrickboreale7381everything is dependent on me winning thise subjugation

[@TheAsylumCat]

If i recall correctly, there was a dlc that let you build a weapon that could destroy stars from another star system​@@berilsevvalbekret772

[@You-to-be]

the enslaving and turning into food only to be sold back to your brethren bit, got me.

[@GateCaptain]

My main problem with 40k fans is when you mention any another series and you end up with the sort of fan who goes "actually, they suck because the imperium would send a quiadrallillion ships and a gigabillion space marine chapters to wipe them out in three hours but actually all they need is a dropship and 20 imperial guards." like, dude; we are dealing with an empire that can't even muster enough troops to contain the threats they are already dealing with and often just forget that units or entire sectors of space even exist. Most factions from other series would be able to muster enough strength to carve out a small chunk of space for themselves and offer enough flexibility/adaptability to reverse engineer the imperium's technology and (assuming they don't have to follow the 40k thing where anything more complicated than a typewriter will immediately try to wipe out all life in the galaxy) both modernize and industrialize to the point that they can very quickly match whatever the imperium has to offer. Edit: is able/willing to send to deal with a Tau level threat. My other problem is that Games Workshop is a dogshit company and I don't want to financially support them in any way.

[@_NIKOS9_NIKOS]

@GateCaptain and if it all fails they will always fall back into "uhm actually the chaos gods will just corrupt x character super easy because they all all powerful and stuff". Like even the most hardcore Imperium fan will much rather become a chaos cultist than let 40k take the L.

[@Arlington_Menendez]

That's the problem I always have with Warhammer 40k fans, they're a bit like Dragon Ball fans when comes to (insert favorite) vs (insert opponent's favorite) debates. Including they don't give any sources (like linking to certain website or other material) to their claims on said subject and be unreasonable to have a conversation with, like the situation you just described, with some exception a few cases on conversations I had and/or came across in certain forums and some comment sections on videos.

[@tau-5802]

I understand about things like Dragon ball Z, and time lords Not so much about star wars The thing you must understand is whenever there is a battle, each side throws billions at each other [save eldar] Its also made more confusing via named characters with questionable levels of plot armor There isnt any ONE scource for war hammer as it spans multiple books Just to be sure, I myself look it up on several sites, youtube, reddit and other questionable 3rd party websites and cross reference it to be as accurate as possible I do however understand your frustration with GW Not so much its fans You have a 50 50 of getting a "Erm actually 🤓 " or someone who actually tries to explain And yes, the Imperium will end like a thousand marines or more along with a whole Imperial regiment or two if things turn south Or if you really are unlucky Custodians or Assassins And about your "carving a sector for themselves" part If its any godlike factions or genre like Dragon ball Z or the Viltramites they would be significantly better off But generally speaking, you got Gene stealers tryna steal them jeans and constant harassment from other factions If you meet factions like the Tau, you would be in great care but if your sector is next to a tyranid hive fleet or a Ork Waagh, just be prepared for a endless battle Orks have been known to [somewhat] retreat and inform them of the good fighting youve given them and more will arrive In cases of hive fleets, you will be eaten alive Also, War hammer understanding of its lore is difficult to say the least. You can enter from any timeline but you have to piece together the puzzles of the lore If you need anything about wh40k, im here

[@Arlington_Menendez]

I do agree with what you're say with the whole thing even though I know a good amount of base knowledge on 40k and some other lore regarding some of the usual known (supcom, dbz, etc) fictional universes. GW is to blame a lot of it and some of it can be on the authors that worked on 40k lore with some fans making it a bit worse. But I do agree with you on it. And I'll thank for offering help on 40k lore if given, and it's nice to see something of a comment being formal and being able to be read/understood.

[@pyrrusi6070]

17:02 Oh my God... It is my story! Very unexpected to see it here. What can I say? I wanted to do some charity work, and after conquering half of the xeno empire I was sure than heck that the other half was starving. So, I decided to give them a hand. Both in metaphorical, and literal sense. Thanks for the compliment!

[@alexbedel6320]

That's so awesome lmao.

[@paulsmart4672]

Sort of weird that you went into obscure high-brow scifi and instead of The Culture being your pick you went to the *even more* obscure and highbrow Xeelee Sequence.

[@vonfaustien3957]

The Culture at least is kind of comparable to 40k being a galaxy spanning civilization even if the culture equivalent of a fed ex truck outguns a blackstone fortress the participants of the war in Heaven would at least qualify as middle powers in the cultures universe. The Xeele probably wouldnt even notice anything was going on in 40k the scales to small.

[@longwlenguyen4214]

"Do not remember heroes. Do not speak their names. Remember my words, but do not speak my name. I have a vision of a Galaxy overrun by mankind from Core to rim. Of four hundred billion stars each enslaved to the rhythms of Earth’s day, Earth’s year. I have a vision of a trillion planets pulsing to the beat of a human heart. And I have a vision of a child. Who will grow up knowing neither family nor comfort. Who will not be distracted by the illusion of a long life. Who will know nothing but honor and duty. Who will die joyously for the sake of mankind. That is a hero. And I will never know her name. Always remember: a brief life burns brightly." Hama Druz founder of ICoG from Xeelee Sequence

[@berilsevvalbekret772]

​@@longwlenguyen4214 ah yes. THE CUNT of Xeelee verse.

[@erdachtzumuntergang]

​@@longwlenguyen4214 Can we have that IRL?

[@jonatand2045]

Even real life in 40k years might beat warhammer 40k just because every star system and stray planet in hundreds of light years might have scores of superintelligent machines in them.

[@1EthanCC]

About a week ago I ordered Flux, which is a Xeelee book about a heavily modified version of humanity living in the mantle of a neutron star. By heavily modified I mean they're made of nickel atoms, about a million times smaller (their capital city is a centimeter across) due to their higher density, and smell photons because of how slowly light moves in a neutron star. Their sight is based on sound instead. The humans that initially colonized the neutron star used bodies that were were fractal patterns of hyperdense material from the core, and connected the various parts of the mantle using wormholes to speed up travel. They have a machine that lets them pilot the neutron star, which is a big part of the plot.

[@jhonnoilcringeincarnato8593]

Hold on they use a neutron star as a car? WTF? 💀💀💀💀

[@indigowest6894]

​@@jhonnoilcringeincarnato8593 No. They use neutron stars as *ammunition*. The one this comment refers to was fired at the Xeelee Ring, to destroy it because humanity thought it was a superweapon.

[@adalsal816]

I WOKE UP IN A NEW BUGATTI!!!​@@jhonnoilcringeincarnato8593

[@Sh1tbagActual]

@@indigowest6894oh. Humanity evolved an entire subspecies to make a Piloted bomb out of a Neutron Star.

[@indigowest6894]

@@Sh1tbagActual Yep. SPOILERS: They did the same thing to Earth's Moon as well, flinging it at the Xeelee Ring. They also sent a fleet of ships towards the Ring, with a crew that was engineered in such a way that when certain key phrases that formed a poem were uttered by people at their various stops along the journey (Stops included the neutron star and the Moon, btw, so this was a multi-millenia spanning plan) and the final line was spoken, the harmless looking colonisation fleet would turn into a battlefleet, and all the crew would become fanatical soldiers instead of peaceful religious messengers. And it still failed.

[@TheHungfoo]

Let's be real here, if every faction in 40k teamed up together, I don't think it could even beat Krillin

[@theavatarofinsanity]

For some reason, I feel compelled to mention the cthulhu mythos and the "Character" Azathoth. Who by himself could quite literally destroy the entire setting of 40k by simply waking up from his afternoon nap.

[@JohnDoe-sx6iw]

That is a different old one, Azathoth is just super hungry to the point that other old ones play trumpets for all eternity resulting in our physical reality.

[@Beepers559]

Imagine being so peckish that everyone has to serenade you to sleep with bedtime stories

[@pope4510]

@@JohnDoe-sx6iw No, Azatoth is the one sleeping and dreaming the reality into existence. And he is one of the most op beings in all of fiction

[@Silungar]

@@pope4510 He is literally commonly interpreted to be a metaphor for the uncaring cruelty of the universe, so, yeah... Also, as dumb as it is to throw beings like that into power scaling: It is said to sit specifically both in the center and outside of EXISTENCE, not the universe, so even multiversal entities from other settings couldn't do shit - how even? The Outer Gods are literally immune to the very concept of change. (Nega-Chin from Cosmo and Wanda could still beat it tho, because he can canonically leave the realm of fiction and beat up the writer until he makes him win)

[@Asterion_Mol0c]

A better one that is technically more powerful than azathoth is Yog-Sothoth

[@Ace_Of_Spade639]

The universe of the Finno-Korean Hyperwar would probably absolutely BODY 40k Edit: wow 500 likes didn’t expect this but thanks

[@iansahleen1173]

That’s just our universe before they turned physics off and on again

[@Blaze6108]

The WHAT

[@Trazynn]

@@Blaze6108 Before the Dark Ages there was the Roman Empire. But before the Roman Empire there was the Egyptian empire which were basically the remnants of Pre-diluvian Babylon which was built on the foundations of Atlantis which recovered from the destruction of Maldek after the Centaurian Expansion. Eitherway, all these periods in our history are mere footnotes to the Finno Korean Hyperwar that preceded all of this.

[@엄희성-t3u]

As a veteran of the hyperwar, I think the current generation is pathetic. The Gaza Mass Autism Array really did it's job too good.

[@justanaverageguy912]

@penileymajorey7174yes.

[@DigiThorn]

The biggest weakness 40k faces when in a versus series situation is the lack of technological development Almost all of the factions that exist in 40k are, at best, trying to get back to what their technology was some millions of years ago, and at worst are pretty much actively *stifling* technological advancement. Which is pretty much the exact reason why Stellaris would win, even if not immediately.

[@diggman88]

Yeah, I think Star wars would eventually out tech 40k in a war. For a long time the standard warship was the dreadnought cruiser in the Republic. By the end of the galactic civil war, the ISD-1 was considered baseline. Star wars doesn't build big ships because they don't need to. They are perfectly capable of escalating when they need too.

[@XD-sc4ix]

​​@@diggman88 eeh not really star wars for the most part is just as stagnant as 40k since they still use the same five weapons also a big reason why I think they wouldn't win is that they simply lack the robust and long lasting imperial industry that has been going strong for over 10000 years of non-stop war without any sign of stopping sure the empire had over 20000 star destroyers but that was during a period where the only foes they've encountered were a bunch of space pirates, some jedi in hiding and disorganized freedom fighters

[@JakeBaldwin1]

@@XD-sc4ix The thing is that the republic has regressed and stagnated in the military department for at least a thousand years. (At least in legends, although the blaster tech has been improving in less obvious areas like ammo capacity and size.) But during both the clone wars and the galactic civil war major tech and industrial advancements were achieved in as little as a few years. That rapid advancement combined with the imperium's slow response time would really improve the empire's or republic's chances. What would be an awesome fight would be the old republic/ sith empire, that was basically their military height, not technologically but socially.

[@cosmictreason2242]

Star Wars would get dhitstomped unless a brilliant general uses ISDs in guerilka operations in order to force a truce upon threat of systematic world annihilation as a form of MAD

[@Betrix5060]

Stellaris wins because “Tau on crack” is the baseline for technological development. Really the only thing holding them back is gameplay constraints, particularly galaxy size. The playable galaxy is canonically hundreds of thousands of light years across so unless 99.99999% of star systems are being ignored for some reason there should be hundreds of billions to claim. Hell one of the trailers drops “trillions of stars”, so good luck beating that “empire of a million worlds”.

[@rakisuzuki-burke4148]

Another one: Space Battleship Yamato: Take, for example, the Dreadnought class battleship. It's 242 meters long. In addition to its main guns, which fire beams of antimatter, it carries a spinal-mounted Wave-Motion Gun. The first time a Wave-Motion Gun was used (mounted on a different class of ship), it vaporized a floating continent the size of Australia. The crew of that ship were unwilling to use it against an alien base on Pluto because they were *scared that it would destroy the entire dwarf planet*. In a flashback scene, six wave motion guns destroy a full-sized planet, with a seventh vaporizing the planet's moon. The Dreadnought-class battleships aren't even the most powerful ships used by the UNCF, and they aren't the smallest ones to mount a Wave-Motion gun.

[@Hypogeal-Foundation]

Dark Age WH40K had Vortex Guns, they could create black holes. Easy win. WH30k had 20 Gloriana class ships 30Km in length. Probably going to win. WH40K will swarm the UNCF.

[@rakisuzuki-burke4148]

@@Hypogeal-Foundation Six wave motion guns will vaporize most of a planet. I'm fairly sure *one* would be enough to obliterate a Gloriana. What dark age humanity had doesn't matter very much when we're talking about 40k. Sure, some of that tech might still be around, but it will be incredibly rare.

[@PoIy178]

​@@Hypogeal-Foundation "BUT MUH DAOT" hate that argument so much, because, besides the fact that we're not talking about it at all, there are still other fictional factions FAR stronger than it lmao

[@strilight]

2202 UNCF Wave Motion Fleet at its peak during the Gatlantis War was bloody crazy. Thousands of Andromedas and Dreadnaughts-class ships and the hundreds more being manufactured each day by the Time Fault Factory, I actually don't know if they'd even notice Battlefleet Solar if they came up against it. Speaking of Gatlantis, the Ark of Destruction is legitimately one of the most powerful sci-fant space stations to ever exist. There's... basically nothing in the 40K verse that can do anything about it.

[@blizzardgaming7070]

Especially if you compare stuff like Armoured Core, the mass produced MT's are the equivalent of a dreadnought with a reaper autocannon. Those mass produced MT's can be dispatched by an Armoured Core in a matter of seconds, not even taking things like the fourth gen Nexts or prototype weapons like the Institute mechs into account. Some of the top AC pilots have mission success percentages in the 90s. The minimum caliber that an AC uses is fifty millimetres (upscaling 9mil by the same factor of an AC's height) and their laser weapons have all the pros of 40k plasma with the only drawback being that they overheat after constant use and need to cool down for a few seconds.

[@ASNS117Zero]

High tier ACs unironically, and reliably beat Imperator class titans 1v1. One of the early game "bosses" - that is, the Strider - in AC6 is at least an order of magnitude bigger than an Imperator class titan, and it gets brutalized by 621.

[@blizzardgaming7070]

​@@ASNS117Zero Not to mention stuff like Balteus, the Enforcer, Cell 240, Sol 644 and the Ice worm

[@dodojesus4529]

​@@ASNS117Zeroyeah the titan cant do shit, the ac dodges and even if a stray shot hits acs are tanky as fuck

[@dodojesus4529]

​@@blizzardgaming7070a moderately well managed iceworm would genuinely require exterminatus to do shit. We beat it because it was alone and restricted to defend an objective+ we had equipment and tech to disable its shields. If you werent going at it from the perspective of the humans in ac doing anything is just not possiblr

[@blizzardgaming7070]

@@dodojesus4529 since an AC was able to survive a high powered rail gun while entering a planet from orbit, anything short of overcharged plasma or melta shots wouldn't do much.

[@S0meRandom_MoFo]

I think it's pretty accurate calling 40k the Dark Souls of sci-fi. Not only are they pretty powerful while still keeping it "fair" in each respective setting, most of the stuff you encounter are a shadow of its former self

[@danielgudi7446]

That is actually a fair point.

[@Bang-ld4be]

This is a VERY observant take, love it

[@bruticus1496]

Right until you meet the molecular disintegrator beams of a necron hunter

[@S0meRandom_MoFo]

@@bruticus1496 And yet they spent more time fighting each other rather than taking over the galaxy. Every 40k faction has their own reason why they hasn't rule the galaxy yet because then GW can't milk them

[@kronos661]

@@bruticus1496 What we see of necrons is also only pale shadow of what once was.

[@bthsr7113]

For me, one of the best things about CIVIL who would win debates is getting to learn about new characters, new settings, and new details. Also, those "multiple levels beyond cosmic" birds form the Xeelee Sequence reminded me of the cosmic birds briefly mentioned in a dreadnought lore bit from Destiny. Also also, that frame of the TARDIS reminded me of that time the Daleks built a "bomb" to wipe out their multiverse.

[@russellstephens3580]

The deep lore in destiny is cracked. I'm so bummed that the people running bungie now don't deserve any of my money, I was real excited to get some of the recent expansions on sale. The lore card where rasputin encoutners the darkness is one of the best bits of writing for higher dimensional fighting at a level people can't comprehend I've ever read. "IT was stronger than everything. I fought IT with aurora knives and with the stolen un-fire of singularities made sharp and my sweat was earthquake and my breath was static but IT was stronger so how did I survive?" Google "Ghost Fragment: Mysteries" for the whole thing, it's great writing.

[@Retrosicotte]

Civil comparison was how I learned about Battletech's real detail. Now it's one of my favourite, most followed universes.

[@Zeliegrim]

I know a little bit about everything in this video except Xeelee. Thanks to this I have my next read.

[@DrWise-ut7jh]

Bionicle contains several beings that solo 40k

[@allcoolmrdon]

If anyone had read the ‘Three body problem’ book series, specifically the second book. I think it provides an excellent and kinda realistic depiction of what massively powerful alien technology could be like

[@durazno4948]

I came to say this one, too. Our three-dimensional universe being the bombed out ruins of a 10-dimensional universe is a pretty fun idea.

[@ananonymousnerd.2179]

"tHe TrIsOlArAnS aRe ****Ed" - Words spoken before your (almost) entire navy gets annihilated by a very dense teardrop.

[@ananonymousnerd.2179]

@@durazno4948 That moment that Holy Terra gets turned into a 2D painting by some random Xenos guy who likes to sing on the job. Oh, wait, that's already happened before. Goodbye, Imperium!

[@remainprofane7732]

@@durazno4948monodimensionality, here we come.

[@ciscornBIG]

That series was so awful. If that is the crown jewel of Chinese sci fi then they have a long way to go. So cringe. All of it.

[@theduchyofmilanball3157]

Another thing that people rarely bring up about 40k in vs debates is just how *slow* information moves in the setting. Like, y'know how in 40k, it took the imperium 300ish years to learn that a bunch of their planets fell to some new upstart blueberries (the Tau). And thats how the Damocles crusade happened. Thats basically the norm. So any faction with truly ftl communications alone has a notable advantage. We glossed over star wars. But... Hyperspace travel and the Holonet are... fast. Fast enough that there's a non-zero chance of a competently lead faction from that setting being able to attain victory on a strategic level if they pick their battles well enough. Though they'd have to give alot of the bigger threats a wide birth. If not the empire, then possibly the Old Republic or Legends New Republic. Similiarly, Battletech's HPG network represents a massive step up over 40k's communications infrastructure. I dont know how best they could leverage that... maybe Commstar makes a deal with the mechanicus. Extending the HPG network to the Imperium in exchange for them leaving the Inner Sphere alone.

[@19Pyrus70]

The Word of Blake would side with chaos & corrupt the HPG network.

[@pyotrbagration2438]

1. How many hyperspace lanes exist in the 40k galaxy? 2. How many years before they chart them? 3. How does the rank'n'file SW civilian battle Chaos corruption? 40k trumps SW, it has been debated ad nauseam.

[@papapalps2415]

@@pyotrbagration2438 1. None, initially, presumably, seeing how hyperlanes are the equivalent to roads and highways. Of course, in much the same way, hyperdrive does not require hyperlanes to function, nor are they impossible or even particularly difficult to make. And even 'offroading' is still going to be leagues faster than Warp travel. 2. I dunno. Probably less than a decade, especially if they droid spam to brute force the charting process. Amusingly, it doesn't really matter how long it takes. The Empire, or whoever, has literally more or less all the time in the world. It's not as if the Imperium, especially as it is currently, has the capability to do much to the Star Wars galaxy directly, ESPECIALLY if it is a wormhole (aka; chokepoint) situation. They physically do not have the abillity to mount an invasion of a literal entire ither, new galaxy, nevermind one with a peer-level civilization inside, lul. The idea is laughable on the face of it, given how dire the Imperium's situation is. And none of the other factions bar the 'Crons (who have no real reason to do so, or even care) have the abillity, either, at least assuming it's a wormhole (and even if it isn't, only the Orks and 'Nids could do anything, and only the latter could do any real damage). 3. They...presumably don't even need to, lul. The wormhole situation would more or less make the issue moot, and even if the SW galaxy were somehow magically interposed somewhere nearby to the Milky Way, it still isn't going to be as huge of an issue as it for the Imperium for any number of reasons; the utter and total lack of psykers, who are and always have been the main victims and liabilities for Chaos corruption and invasion; the sheer astronomical distance from the Milky Way, the main bastion of Chaos; the fact that, without the pre-history genetic tampering from the Old Ones/whoever, humanity in SW and the various aliens won't be at risk of suddenly developing massive numbers of psykers over time, ala again the IoM; and perhaps most importantly of all, simply because the galactic population in SW should all have the same rough Warp presence as the Tau, making them terribly unappetizing and uninteresting to Chaos. It really doesn't, though, no.

[@theduchyofmilanball3157]

​@@19Pyrus70I mean, its the WoB, they're literally made to be just the absolute worst. Commstar overall was morally dark grey at best. And WoB is just its worst aspects taken to 11. No shit they would side with chaos.

[@pyotrbagration2438]

@@papapalps2415 1. Good luck off-roading without a Geller field. 2. If you dont know dont act as if you know, in 26,000+ years, SW still doesnt have hyperspace lanes in almost 1/2 of their setting, plus their biggest one is the oldest one, meaning it is either extremely difficult to chart ones, or the SW setting has forgotten how to. 3. Only Pariahs dont have a presence in the Warp. Tl;dr , read more lore, dont take what you read on reddit as lore.

[@Darek_B52]

I'm never a fan of these debates mainly because ppl tend to have their own vision for the scale of the question. I mean a Stargate squad could reasonably take on an Imperial Guard squad. Now a ship load of imperial guard will probably only lose if they clog up the Stargate.

[@mcmarkmarkson7115]

Sure if you set up the elite of the elite of the planet vs the weakest imperium soldiers.

[@yaelz6043]

A guardsman is as good a soldier as the writer needs him to be. A squad could either lose to an asthmatic child or beat the entire SG earth. They can't even decide what their weapons and armour are like. Does the standard issue guard flak stop M16 (stubbed?) rounds or not?

[@Darek_B52]

Well a Cadian standard Guardsmen has enough open spots that enough .50 cal will hit flesh and there are ballistic munitions used in 40K by notmal humans. Does the lore ever say what caliber that is? ​@yaelz6043

[@mcmarkmarkson7115]

@@Darek_B52 earth weapon can kill regular guardsmen for sure. At least the ones without cybernetic implants.

[@rubbykibress7808]

@@Darek_B52 pretty sure a standard autogun is stated to fire "long 8.25" caliber bullets

[@tor4472]

The Dark Forest Universe also fucks up 40K on a level they can't comprehend

[@The-Samuil]

Let me bring up All Tomorrows. Even the Star People were fully capable of destroying stars without much dificulty. And then we have the Qu who defeated them with ease, the Second Humanities, the Machine Empire of the Gravitals and finally the Asteromorphs

[@AvantGardeCuration2299]

Doesn’t matter how many space marines are planetside if you throw a moon-sized asteroid at them. Even if you only put the Qu against 40k they’d still beat almost all factions akin to how they conquered the Star people.

[@theodorehodbor5080]

Drukhari: "Oh look at how I turned the pitiful mon'keigh we just captured into a funny looking chair!" The Qu: *Prowler theme plays*

[@FifingFossil]

Tau: ha! We evolve from strange things and now we spread cooperation! Secound human empire: bitch please, my ancestors are bricks

[@orionthanathos8861]

The Qu would definitely turn Imperium of Man into Xeno freaks.

[@fifervonpiper6707]

@@theodorehodbor5080 40K is a eugenics haven for the Qu. So many species, so many All Tomorrows. Maybe we can make sentient waste-eating flesh bricks out of the Chaos gods.

[@silentnight6810]

I sense the rage of thousands of people slamming their keyboards

[@clan741]

It’ll be very cathartic

[@Beepers559]

The curse of a vs debate

[@BillBrasky5351]

Yeah. It's called rage farming. Kinda pointless. Like a dick measuring contest between incels.

[@Gibson7Clans]

I'm really happy more people are pushing 40K off it's high horse. XD it's about time they stop being arragent with other sci-fis

[@BillBrasky5351]

@@Gibson7Clans being Arragent is every 40k's fan fatal flaw.

[@triplehelix3207]

I've read only 2 of the Xeelee books when i was a teenager, they are wild stuff Baxter's Manifold series has the Downstreamers, future humans who've lived as the only sentient life in their whole universe which allowed them to master everything, who could probably beat the Xeelee. they used that knowledge and power to create the multiverse which they basically exist as custodians over

[@jacobsheehan5775]

So if I get this right they can do to the xeelee what the xeelee did to the transcendent

[@TonyStark-qe3kd]

@@jacobsheehan5775yeah so basically we are insects for 40k and 40k are insects for the inner coalition of governance and they are insects for the transcendence and the transcendence are insects for the xeelee and the xeelee are insects for the Downstreamers they are basically gods even more then xeelee and they play Lego with Galaxy clusters to build a supergate like the ancients in stargate to escape black matter beings

[@blackshogun272]

@@jacobsheehan5775 I just realized that any high ball interpretation of an IRL primordial + chief deity washes the Xeelee.

[@triplehelix3207]

@My_pfp_beats_all_dog_breeds. yes and easily

[@TonyStark-qe3kd]

@My_pfp_beats_all_dog_breeds. i would see yes downstreamer are stronger then xeelee and timelords and are also not effected by space and time and have made their finite multiverse to an infinite also very important they can’t be erased if you kill them as child for example cause they are acausal mod I don’t know what their limits are but I think qu can’t do more then what they can

[@TheOrijinalPajeet]

Ah, no Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, where mechs larger than the universe chuck galaxies at one another like they´re frisbees.

[@TheOrijinalPajeet]

Oh, there is Gurren Lagann.

[@aredjayc2858]

Also Tanking the equivalent of Big Bang, absorbing a multiverse, moving so fast that essentially speed is no longer able to be conceived, reality warping Mass/Energy etc. Unironically Simon is the Strongest fictional character with a known limit

[@secondarytrollaccount666]

The thing about the necromorphs that's scary is that very few people are immune or resistant to the markers signal. If all of Terra started killing each other and turning, the custodes would have a hard time protecting the palace and I mean a very difficult time. It depends on how quick they get ahold of the outbreak honestly if a marker hit earth and started popping off they better get to work immediately and start retaliating or its ogre.

[@cosmictreason2242]

People wouldn't turn unless they died though. Similar to the walking dead

[@GeminautVA]

​@cosmictreason2242 imperial citizens, especially terran pilgrims, would immediately ritual mass-koolaid themselves if the marker signal got in their head and presented itself as anything close to the emperor. Billions of willing converts become massive hordes of necromorphs in hours at most.

[@Firesnake905]

@@cosmictreason2242 Yeah, the marker should not be underestimated, the signal is a potent effect. It causes mass psychosis and mania to pretty much everyone in its radius. Also, eating necromorph flesh can also turn someone, slowly overtime. It would more require the emperor to immediately and violently remove the marker from Terra as soon as possible, as a marker is capable of surviving planetary level destructing in shards.

[@apileofcocaine6855]

Isn’t the emperor technically dead? Doesn’t the marker turn dead meat into necromorphs? the emperor might just turn into a necro as soon as the marker hit

[@Firesnake905]

@@apileofcocaine6855 That is a bit harder to determine, cause the Emperor is technically still alive, but barely. Also he is mostly bones at this point, so you know. Also the marker signal takes time with reanimating bodies, it does not happen instantly.

[@DrawPG]

I think you forgot Settra. Just give him an ftl powered chariot and he can solo anything. He might die but he's coming back more pissed that the demons that was planning to mess with him in the ftl warp would speed him up while giving him upgrades to his chariot and giving him a spa day before he appear to send you to the afterlife and then go to the afterlife and slap you for the stupidity of challenging him

[@christiandauz3742]

End Times say other Settra is a Sigmarine in AOS while Archaon is a minor Chaos God

[@kaiserofkush]

average opponent dies while waiting for his herald to finish announcing Settra's titles

[@TheBenjiNebby]

​@@christiandauz3742no he is not

[@rodan9596]

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@christiandauz3742 A quote from Manfred to Settrus “You lie, thief. You are not the king whose name you bear! If you were he, I would be slain already.”

[@stephencowie696]

Why would he even bother going solo... first thing he does he crump every ork warboss create a Settra Waargh - waargh power plus Settra = 40k down.

[@randomarcgunner4543]

Whenever someone says how OP 40k is I mention how in doctor who the Cybermen were considered dangerous to the point humans destroyed the Milky Way to try making the Cybermen extinct.

[@gabbonoo]

i think the OP comparison is based on common happenings. Else you could assume their multiverse is some variant of cluster realities in a wizard's bauble.

[@thegrouchization]

And it didn't even work!

[@Xo-3130]

Here the thing to remember for scale. The Time Lords and the Last Time War Daleks are about on par with the Xeelee.

[@zhcultivator]

I wish there were more Alien species in Sci-Fi with "Consciousness cloning" tech, quantum teleportation tools, 3-D space manipulation tools capable of flattening 3D space into 2D space and disrupting the quantum states of enemy lifeforms' neurons, headgear capable of repelling the beforementioned neuron quantum state disruption, digitally preserving rare life by converting Lifeforms into maths equations, weapons capable of generating gravity wells & creating spatial snares for trapping others, devices capable of stealing info by reading entageled qubits, 'Galactic Supercluster Civilizations', geometric weapons that can emit focused waves of energy to fold & bend the fabric of space to create portals, "Galaxy Group-controlling Species /Galaxy Cluster Civilizations", time-warping devices with the ability to put a confined area of space in stasis that nullifies the superhuman capabilities of everyone inside ot and negates all scifi tech's capabilities inside the field too, etc

[@gabbonoo]

@@zhcultivator OP pseudoscience is too hard to write around. leaves you with a whole lot of "why didnt they just..."

[@starspace352]

Half Life 2's Combine would also probably fuck over 40k. And to those that will say "MIT graduate with crowbar", we have never seen the ACTUAL power of the Combine. All we know is that they are a multi-dimensional empire, that has conquered entire universes. While they could not beat the Xeelee, or more likely, we don't know if they could do it. Their strength, governance, technology is as incomprehensible for the human brain as the Xeelee. Another aspect that is worthy of mention is tied to the name, The Combine. They somehow force everything to work as a "single organism". They look at humans as blood cells, they basically look at all living beings as stuff to be dominated, assimilated and combined into the Combine. This is another reason we have absolutely zero idea if they have a slight chance against the Xeelee. Combine cool 🙂

[@papapalps2415]

There is basically zero information on what the Combine can actually do, unless you take concept art and discarded story ideas as canon. To say they can (or cannot) beat 40k, or, well, literally any sci-fi setting or faction that's roughly above modern Earth in a military and industrial sense is absurd.

[@starspace352]

@@papapalps2415 Well, going with the entire multiuniversal thing, even if we canonically don't know much about the Combine, we saw how they integrated their tech into anything human. So, perhaps they could combine their stuff with 40k stuff to kick butts. But you are right tho, we know next to nothing about them and I went with my guts with this idea.

[@Dotanalyst]

For all we know, the Combine's "universal union" could be nothing more than them hopping around in parallel dimensions and conquering various copies of Earth, using Xen as a sort of hub to access all these different realities. For example, the Vortigaunts could be from one version of Earth, the Headcrabs from another, the Nihilanth and Contoller race from another etc. That would also explain how all these different alien species can breathe Earth's air. If their homeworld is another Earth, well there you go. Before coming to Half-Life's reality, the Combine didn't even know how to do localized site to site teleportation, which is why they wanted the Aperture Science ship called the Borealis, which had the same type of local teleportation that the portal gun has. Of course, having access to a potential infinite number of Earths would make the Combine a rather unique superpower in fiction, but they wouldn't stand a chance against an actual galactic or universal empire with interstellar tech.

[@tiolloyd9555]

​@@papapalps2415yes, but let's still remember that from the little we know of them, they are OP as fuck. You know the 7 Hours War? The war that literally wiped out entire countries and the fee military that could keep fighting until sid 8 hours were over were all reduced to scavenging groups hiding in ruined cities with guerrilla tactics since their weapons couldn't do shit and they still lost? Well, I I'm not misremembering, this was done by the ranger/recognition forces of the Combine. They literally turned an entire planet to ruin effortlessly and without using an actual army

[@papapalps2415]

@@tiolloyd9555 Destroying early 2000's-Earth militarily in only a few hours is something *Literally Almost Any Science Fiction Faction In Existence* can do if they put their mind to it. Orbital supremacy makes such a thing utterly trivial. There's also zero proof whatsoever I'm aware of it was 'just' recon forces or some such, although even if it was, it doesn't matter. A 40k escort cruising into bombardment distance, demanding a surrender, and destroying a major population center every hour until that is achieved would accomplish the exact same thing, practically speaking.

[@ethangonzales8230]

In my personal opinion, the star trek universe could reasonably do catastrophic amounts of damage purely because the federation can explore hundreds of worlds within 5 years, while the imperium could barely even react in time for the federation to outpace anything they could organize.

[@HolyApplebutter]

Ah, yes. The Imperium's greatest weakness. Logistics.

[@bthsr7113]

This is tot say nothing of all the pseudo gods, the Borg, the Q, and the Federation's most dangerous weapon of all. Technobabble.

[@raccoononymous]

​@bthsr7113 The Borg would probably be the greatest threat to thr 40k setting. If they can assimilate 40k warp tech and psykers you now have psychic borg to deal with who will never be corrupted since they are the most orderly existence imaginable, always united in thought and purpose. The Borg would fear being corrupted less than Chaos should fear being assimilated.

[@usernamealreadytaken9330]

The imperium of man is a carcass of once great empire though, most of the technology they have was a fraction of the age of technology, which is a golden age of humanity lasting about eight thousand years before Cybernetics uprising. Which arguably similar to Star Trek. So they have no chance on a technological whatsoever, the imperium probably still standing on a faith and duct tape.

[@christiandauz3742]

Chaos would cause the Q to commit suicide then corrupt the rest of Star Trek. Then Star Wars, Halo, Transformers, etc

[@peterhurst6782]

The Lantern Corps would actually really fit in to 40k. They are basically chaos lords. Seriously, each lantern represents an emotional (or conceptual) spectrum which is embodied with a magical entity that literally cannot be destroyed unless the concept itself leaves reality (most famously Parralax of the Yellow Lantern being fear incarnate). I think the lantern corps in the 40k universe would be accidentally making minor chaos gods... Or at the very least be dominated by a red lantern corps which straight up would love Khorne.

[@jacobsheehan5775]

The rage I mean red lanterns might go after khorne because their thing is revenge and khorne does a lot of revenge worthy stuff

[@YouthRightsRadical]

The Emotional Entities would be akin to Chaos Gods, just embodying all of a particular emotion in the universe rather than in a single galaxy. The various Lantern Corps regularly imprison said entities in batteries like the Necrons do to C'tan shards.

[@valletas]

The black lantern corp would have a field day with 40k Like imagine they having sixtillions of zombies all being able to carry lantern rings

[@YouthRightsRadical]

@@valletas Absolutely. The sheer numbers of dead would be great for the Black Lanterns, but they would also benefit from the numbers of the living. Imagine how many hearts they could claim to charge their Central Battery when attacking a hive world before anyone noticed there was a problem. And then there's the mind games Black Lanterns love so much. Malcador and Horus get to go taunt the Emperor about his many many failures. (Black Lanterns don't bring back the original soul, so Horus' soul being destroyed would not hinder this.) Not to mention taking advantage of their knowledge to know where to hit the Imperium where it would hurt the most. Chaos would be getting its own ass kicking when all the dead Eldar gods Slaanesh ate get to come back for round two. Meanwhile, Fulgrim gets to have an intimiate discussion with Feris Manus plus all the Feris Manus clones he was killing for who knows how long for the sake of his ego. Then they've also got the option of getting, say, the Flayer, the one C'tan that was killed instead of shattered. Plus any Old Ones the Black Lanterns feel like bringing to the party to have a War in Heaven re-enactment. And between the knowledge of how the Necron command protocols worked that an unshattered C'tan would have and any control mechanisms the Old Ones built into the Krorks that were lost with the deaths of the Old Ones, the Black Lanterns likely got themselves a fair bit of additional support staff even outside their unstoppable army of super zombies. And THEN we get to the fact that you don't have to actually be dead to become a Black Lantern. You can be made into a Black Lantern if you have EVER died. Meaning Lucius the Eternal is getting a nice new piece of bling and Necron sure as hell isn't going to feel satisfied for having yoinked him, given what the Black Light even is and what it represents. Plus you've got pretty much everyone who's anyone among the Dark Eldar who now have a new master, given how many of them need to be resurected by the homunculi after they get killed by their rivals, including Vect himself. Also means the Black Lanterns get Vulcan whether he's really dead at this point or not. Oh yes, the Blackest Night in Warhammer would be fun.

[@TheRedMan77]

@@YouthRightsRadical Jesus Fucking Christ, I forgot how utterly horrifying Black Lanterns are.

[@bronybro1616]

Doctor Who, nuff said. Forget about Time lords and Daleks, some random UNAMED human empire wiped out an entire GALAXY just to try and fail to wipe out the cybermen.

[@spencerc4252]

who could likely with time adapt to make even the nekron tech meaningless in terms of threat. honestly, nightmare in silver is probably my favorite showing for the cybermen at least in terms of like "oh ... so this is what happens if we let them take root"

[@firetarrasque4667]

Go read some Faction Paradox shit, it’s beautiful stupid nonsense bullshit. The Time Lords fight a war against an enemy who may or may not be Dracula, Mammoths, Tardigrades, or the authors writing the stories. We had people regenerating into intelligent timelines, there’s a book about every alternate universe where Rome never fell went to war with every alternate universe where the Nazis won, every single human being to ever live comes back to life and lives together in one really big fuckoff city that used to be one of the Doctor’s companions - It’s fucking awful, and I love it.

[@JURASSICLEGO777]

That would be insane.

[@theapexsurvivor9538]

Hell, even the Vashtanarada or however you spell it is worthy of an exterminatus, preferably by nuking the planet into space debris. And god forbid they get into any ship.

[@Dracobyte]

In which season did The Doctor say that?

[@benjaminlammertz64]

Vegeta would walk into the eye of terror and tell Khorne "you're sitting on my throne".

[@papapalps2415]

He really wouldn't. Chaos is generally rather pathetic in real space, in the grand scheme of things, but to defeat Chaos inside the Warp, and the God's especially, is a different matter entirely, and so far as I'm aware, Dragon Ball simply doesn't have the hax resistance to deal with Warp nonsense. Throwing around giga-explosions and such means less than nothing inside it, and thats unfortunately basically all most Dragon Ball characters have going for them. To beat Chaos in their home turf requires an entirely different skillset and powers. There's, frankly speaking, not all that much in (popular) fiction as a whole that can deal with them inside the Warp, if only because there's not much in fiction, characters or factions, that can effectively deal with the combo of a realm wherein 'the laws of reality and physics literally do not exist in any way, shape or form' and 'the entities that inhabit it are basically one and all stupidly powerful reality warpers whilst inside who fight in such a way that the human mind can't comprehend in any meaningful way'.

[@yasquishyboi902]

thank god someone says it, there’s definitely stronger stuff in the world

[@darthchungus9964]

Scp,cthullu mythos,marvel,dc,trashy lightnovels and manhwas,Stephen king and many more 40k is middle of the road when it comes to overthe top powers and beings

[@yasquishyboi902]

@@darthchungus9964 Exactly my good fellow!

[@datuguro9029]

40k vs that one creature made in an argument to combat that other preschooler’s creature during lunch break.

[@mcmarkmarkson7115]

​@@darthchungus9964 sure but the way marvel does it is just too childishly op how about 5 magic stones that makes all your wishes come true somehow? Yea ok...very creative ^^

[@clan741]

⁠@genericdude5017his dark tower series goes into multiverse stuff and elder gods. And sometimes the crazy things happening to a small town in Main was because godlike alien children were bored. Just imagined up a surreal event happening on earth from trillions of lightyears away on a whim.

[@stormlord819]

I personally think that the Supreme commander universe would wipe the floor with 40k.

[@attila535]

It's al fun and games, until the fatboys start rolling out of the factories.

[@skytheannur6168]

said it before I did, SupCom will just drown out 40k

[@chrismath149]

@@attila535 Jealous Admech noises.

[@XD-sc4ix]

Unfortunately their spaceship capabilities are non-existent

[@joshdotavi]

I wholeheartedly agree with this

[@thecartooncollector1302]

Speaking of Star Wars vs 40k, theres a channel called AFanWithTooMuchTime who has an audio drama series on the concept. And its actually incredibly well written! He does a good job giving star wars an even fight without nerfing 40k. I highly recommend it. Theres like 60 plus episodes all at an hour or so length. Its a shame it doesnt have as much traction as it should!

[@zegawar1594]

Before I rant let me clear something. I'm interested in this audio drama. I just have some heavy things against it. I will keep watching it because the guy put effort into it, I won't dislike it cause this guy is actually doing something and getting people behind him. But now my rant. I would say he doesn't really give star wars a chance. I've watched the whole audio drama from start to finish and in one. He pretty much says the CIS was wiped out. You know the people with quadrillion droids and fleets with it. Yeah the capital was siege and no one was able to help. Also the republic has thrown everything at the battle of Axium. And he said everything. So far 2 dreadnought on the republic side are dead and omega is saying their suffering massive causalites. Now let's put this into perspective it isn't the combined republic fleets vs the combined empire fleets. It's the whole republic fleets vs a few empire fleets. The republic looses. If they come out with a price victory and somehow wipe out the empire fleets. Well they lost 75% of all their fleet assets. That leave only the pdf left. Which the empire can sweep since they were able to wipe the cis and Axium's psf forces that were on the planet. Sw vs 40k is a 40k wank fest. The story could be leagues better than what it is. But the guy is going in saying 40k triumphs. And that's the default. For example the clone troopers in the newest episode were fighting space marine and winning. But nope turns out that it was dead clones piloting robotic space marine armor. Which is the biggest driving rug pull. There was no previous talk about the clones being used like this no hint about it. He saw he wrote that the clones killed an actually space marine before hand and dramtically corrected himself. But for me the worst example was a dreadnought marched out in front of the republic army and faced tanked everything. Railgun shots, rockets, blasters, energy beams, everything. Tanked it like it was nothing. In lore dreadnought died to tau railguns which is the tech level that star wars is on. How could it take all that stuff even if it's a special dreadnought and not get cratered.

[@HalfDecentTrashCollection2001]

​@@zegawar1594hes actually trying to give star wars an implied long term pyrrhic win, ironically some 40k fans still think he's nerfing the imperium

[@zegawar1594]

@DiddyKongsTrashCollection2001 well it's hard to see a long term win if the two major powers get blasted so hard they turn into Iraq. I mean if he's trying to go for the empire fall apart because of trying to occupy a galaxy that is truly actively trying to fight against them. I can see that being a good story that can come up but by his writing pace it feels like the heat death of the universe will occur before he gets to the first neo-republic uprising. But yeah I can get 40k fans being upset. They really like to over powerscale their guys. I mean GW don't make it east to powerscale where in one book space marines fricking body slam demons. But in another 2 chaos infused super space marines get killed by a commisar. Granted said commisar is Cain but so far no lore has come out saying he's anything but a baseline human.

[@HalfDecentTrashCollection2001]

@@zegawar1594 no I mean some were wanting a 40k steamroll win. And yeah the pace is glacial, there's a CIS remnant faction led by the '03 series Grievous that was set up but that was like 30 parts agk

[@zegawar1594]

@DiddyKongsTrashCollection2001 yeah and og gracious might be a beast but unless he starts mass producing like sovereign ssd ships in mass he ain't gonna win. Gonna make em bleed but not win. Also this is steamroller but like the austinnpowers steamroller but in slow motion.

[@dogbackwards7658]

I'll never get over how the seperatists were one of the most op military force in Star Wars Galactic history But Palpatine purposefully set them up to fail. They lost to actual plot armor.

[@papapalps2415]

The CIS were no such thing, though. They were very much losing to the Republic by the end of the war fair and square (as much as it can be, given the entire war was a farce to begin with), simply by dint of the Republic having a massive industrial advantage. It only took them time for mobilizing it.

[@anthonnynavarro8486]

23:15 a correction: even though there is time travel through time dilation in the sequence, it only works forward. They time travel because the speed of light is also the speed of causality, so if you go faster you can pretty much ignore it and move backwards or forward in time however you like.

[@venerablebrothergoriate5844]

Now, when it comes to a necromorph attack, I believe a space marine chapter or two could handle it, but there’s two things that really get me worried when it comes to that. 1: When the dust has settled, the inquisition is liable to attempt to study the Marker. Whether it’s the Ordo Xenos or the Ordo Malleus that does it, it ain’t gonna go great for the imperium either way. We saw in dead space just how dangerous a marker can be when it’s under the lock and key of a person in a position of power. They’d likely refuse the objections of any who had borne witness to what the marker does to people, and utterly refuse to destroy it, which, if the animation Dead Space Aftermath is any indication, it isn’t all that effective in the first place. Their best bet is to strap a bunch of thrusters to it and shoot it off into the middle of nowhere, or hell, maybe even dump it into the warp. But even with the intense xenophobia of the Imperium, I doubt the Inquisition would treat it with anywhere near the required amount of caution. 2: A psyker necromorph. Due to the immense willpower and resistance to outside influences, I think space marines and maybe even the Mechanicus would be able to resist it. But the imperial guard? Oh god no. And there are plenty of human battle psykers out there, a good chunk of them in the good old IG. It wouldn’t surprise me if a psychic necromorph would be able to act like a walking mini-marker, broadcasting the marker signal like a WiFi signal booster. Astropaths in particular could prove to be immensely dangerous in this regard, as they are practiced in transmitting astropathic communications across incomprehensibly vast distances of space. They’d be like cell towers for the marker signal.

[@what4521]

Well, actually, inquisitor from Ordo Xenos or Ordo Malleus may not be a radical... or that far radical, and may just decide to dump the marker into the nearest star, and then call it a day, burning every last one of corpses left after the outbreak and censoring all the reports about what happened. And in order to use the psyker powers, there need to be a soul in a living body, even demons can't possess corpses. And, considering the fact, that you need to die first in order to become a necromorph... necropsykers are highly unlikely to exist. Even more crazy homicidal-suicidal psykers, with too much voices in their already not-so-sane heads, who kill everyone else and themselves, on the other hand...

[@christiandauz3742]

Chaos corrupts the Markers

[@superthanatos00]

The Brother Moons affected the mind of the smartest first. They made them think that what they were doing was their own ideas while it was actually what the Moons needed. They would become obsessed with the marker overtime. The necromorphs are just remote controlled dolls that they can do whatever they want with. So necromorphs don't die. They would start moving again soon even if you cut off their limbs. The game ragdolls them like they were dead but the lore said they were just immobile temporary.

[@jasutinborchert4418]

“Astropaths could prove a risk” aren’t there a few stories where planetary astropathic choirs where specifically targeted by cults because they aren’t heavily defended, and easily messed with?

[@norrecvizharan1177]

Whether or not they can be corrupted depends on if they had any real desires to begin with though, and the moons only care about consuming 'n forming new moons. Though I suppose Nurgle and Khorne might be fans of the whole "bloodthirsty undead" aspect.@@christiandauz3742

[@DanDaMaN95cov]

Ancient Humanity from Halo vs Golden Age of Technology would be interesting. Considering Ancient Humanity fought a war against the Forunners while holding off the flood at the same time.

[@outerheaven4384]

343 ruined HALO lore

[@IanB3rry]

@@outerheaven4384I agree. Some of the 343 stories themselves are good, but overall, the mystery, ambiguity and little bits of info we could find were much better and atmospheric than laying out the entire story in rich detail.

[@dave38x]

Sees Xeelee Nightfighter in the thumbnail: Ahaaaa I'll enjoy this video.

[@ProjectZepdos42]

You forgot to mention that the Xeelee use cosmic strings created in the big bang as a construction material for not just the Ring (their escape route) but also for galaxy sized missiles made to destroy...galaxies...over the time span of hundreds of thousands of years. Humanity also developed technology that basically removed their ships from observable reality in by creating pocket realities around their ships to beat the Xeelee is their use of closed time like curves in battle scenarios. They also made guns that creat miniture blackholes as ammo. Oh then there's the nuetron stars accelerated to light speed that are used as long term stealth missles against the Xeelee. Oh then you have the many humans that are 20 thousand plus years old that compare to the God Emperor in terms of age.

[@longwlenguyen4214]

"Do not remember heroes. Do not speak their names. Remember my words, but do not speak my name. I have a vision of a Galaxy overrun by mankind from Core to rim. Of four hundred billion stars each enslaved to the rhythms of Earth’s day, Earth’s year. I have a vision of a trillion planets pulsing to the beat of a human heart. And I have a vision of a child. Who will grow up knowing neither family nor comfort. Who will not be distracted by the illusion of a long life. Who will know nothing but honor and duty. Who will die joyously for the sake of mankind. That is a hero. And I will never know her name. Always remember: a brief life burns brightly." Hama Druz founder of ICoG from Xeelee Sequence

[@longwlenguyen4214]

You forgot that the ICoG created mini human to live in Neutron Star and drive it like a car as a suicide missile, and the trenches on Rock basically hollow out asteroid turned into a child soldiers military base/warship/barrage/trenches and suicide missile. Mars had a post human race where an Eusocial human society where women can made many weird human species with specific tasks that made Daemonculaba seem tame by comparison

[@ProjectZepdos42]

I forgot to add that the humans developed Closed Timelike Curve computer constructs that were able to compute a solution to any problem before it's even asked through the use of micro wormholes. Along with that there's an alien species that basically modified pocket universes with optimized physics to create computers that are infinitely more efficient and powerful than any that could be constructed in our reality, solving previously non-computable problems due to the compute time exceeded the life span of the universe while needing to use every single atom within our observable universe as a transistor or qubit. That's only a small portion of the technologies covered in the Xeelee series.

[@IndyRead]

One faction I would LOVE to see compared to 40k would be Supreme Commander. Can just imagine Belisarius Cawl looking at this tiny Titan and thinking "Aww it's so cute wait that's a lot of tanks OMNISSIAH'S BALLSACK IS THAT A BATTLESHIP ON TREADS"

[@mariomario-dy1kc]

Well, as long as you don't pick its spiritual predecessor, Total Annihilation... If you did, the Arm and Core factions wouldn't even notice the 40K factions while attempting to annihilate the other.

[@atomicbuttocks]

everybody gangsta til the cybran battleships starts walkin

[@zhcultivator]

I just wish there were more Alien species in Sci-Fi with "Consciousness cloning" tech for uploading artificial minds in Virtual worlds, quantum teleportation tools, 3-D space manipulation tools capable of flattening 3D space into 2D space and disrupting the quantum states of enemy lifeforms' neurons, headgear capable of repelling the beforementioned neuron quantum state disruption, digitally preserving rare life by converting Lifeforms into maths equations, weapons capable of generating gravity wells & creating spatial snares for trapping others, devices capable of stealing info by reading entageled qubits, 'Galactic Supercluster Civilizations', geometric weapons that can emit focused waves of energy to fold & bend the fabric of space to create portals, "Galaxy Group-controlling Species /Galaxy Cluster Civilizations", time-warping devices with the ability to put a confined area of space in stasis that nullifies the superhuman capabilities of everyone inside ot and negates all scifi tech's capabilities inside the field too, etc

[@Deepkeel]

The problem here is that just a Tech 1 UEF Mech Marine is somewhere around 1 and a half or twice the size of an Imperial Knight mech... and has no actual pilot, the arm canons fire rounds that are bigger than the Knight's head... Did I mention that it would not be a stretch to assume the Tech 3 Artillery structures could be retro fitted into planet based anti-capitalship weapons?

[@IndyRead]

And call me a nerd, but I've always wondered what an expansion of the Supcom games into space combat would look like. All sorts of new and awesome-looking units. Still, even with just the ground combat you've gotta wonder at how any 40k faction could match the sheer output of a couple factories, to say nothing of the destructive capability of the higher tech levels.

[@fcomolineiro7596]

The imperium seeing the Xeelee sequence humans: hey, maybe , maybe we should not be assholes

[@youraveragescotsman7119]

Mfw you watch one ICOG mook bifurcate like 10 Marines at once with his *infantry-grade Starbreaker* The Imperium is gonna beg for mercy when they realize how outmatched they are. The Necron won't stomp them as badly as the ICOG would.

[@longwlenguyen4214]

@@youraveragescotsman7119 "Do not remember heroes. Do not speak their names. Remember my words, but do not speak my name. I have a vision of a Galaxy overrun by mankind from Core to rim. Of four hundred billion stars each enslaved to the rhythms of Earth’s day, Earth’s year. I have a vision of a trillion planets pulsing to the beat of a human heart. And I have a vision of a child. Who will grow up knowing neither family nor comfort. Who will not be distracted by the illusion of a long life. Who will know nothing but honor and duty. Who will die joyously for the sake of mankind. That is a hero. And I will never know her name. Always remember: a brief life burns brightly." Hama Druz founder of ICoG from Xeelee Sequence

[@longwlenguyen4214]

@@youraveragescotsman7119 “Breed, fight hard, die young and stay human: you could sum up the Coalition’s philosophy in those few words. In its social engineering the Coalition set up a positive feedback process; unleashing a swarm of fast breeding humans across the galaxy until every star system had been filled. Not a noble way to do it, but it worked. And we did stay human, for twenty thousand years. Evolution postponed!” -Michae Poole

[@longwlenguyen4214]

@@youraveragescotsman7119 "Do not remember heroes. Do not speak their names. Remember my words, but do not speak my name. I have a vision of a Galaxy overrun by mankind from Core to rim. Of four hundred billion stars each enslaved to the rhythms of Earth’s day, Earth’s year. I have a vision of a trillion planets pulsing to the beat of a human heart. And I have a vision of a child. Who will grow up knowing neither family nor comfort. Who will not be distracted by the illusion of a long life. Who will know nothing but honor and duty. Who will die joyously for the sake of mankind. That is a hero. And I will never know her name. Always remember: a brief life burns brightly." Hama Druz founder of ICoG from Xeelee Sequence

[@spartanalex9006]

@@youraveragescotsman7119No, not Space Marines. Titans. Infantry Star Breakers still have stellar destruction capabilities.

[@ZLEEP2324]

When people compare Star Wars and 40k, ppl think knights and titans are just anti everything units, and completely forget that basic ground units like the ATTE which has been used as an anti capital ship weapon

[@CreatureCreator765]

Finally someone who notices that 40K doesn’t automatically win because ‘it’s 40k’ when franchises like doom and halo exist

[@memosanchez8916]

I can understand doom but Current halo loses though the forunners are extinct , the flood is no longer a threat and factions like covenant , banished and unsc can’t produce anywhere near the scale the imperium of man can

[@sephiroaone-of-nine101]

​@memosanchez8916 define a win? Total annihilation? Intense damage conducted? What is a win(?)

[@memosanchez8916]

⁠@@sephiroaone-of-nine101a combination of both and whether it’s one on one while the covenant would definitely do damage to the imperium it can’t do enough to cripple or destroy it the covenant killed close to 20-25 billion humans in the human -covenant war that’s not even a drop in the bucket to the imperium true the imperium can’t dedicate its full attention to the covenant due to being surrounded on all sides but if that’s the case it’s not a fair one on one is it ?

[@clan741]

⁠@@memosanchez8916the flood are still a threat. They are active on the Ark and there are still preserved specimens on rings and other containment facilities. It takes only one flood spore for things to spiral in an early grave for 40k; but Pancreas already did a vid on the flood in 40k so that is worth a watch for how the flood would devour the 40k galaxy.

[@markhohenbrink5230]

​@memosanchez8916 the next book coming out for Halo is about how the Ur-Didact is still around and kicking, so there is a good chance the prometheans are still a major threat in halo.

[@wanderhillen2435]

There's a scene in a Culture novel where one of the warships tears through several hundred enemy warships in a few milliseconds while going at hundreds of times the speed of light. Several of the kills are the warship convincing the AI controlling the enemy warship to commit suicide. 40k machine spirits won't stand a chance lol. There's also a chapter in another book where a ship details the exact procedure they would use to eradicate the Tyranids (ie use your perfect FTL to stay out of range and tear apart their ships on a subatomic level from several lightyears away). The Culture could probably beat Dark Age of Technology humanity tbh, let alone anything that exists in 40k today.

[@EvelynNdenial]

when the very early culture very easily won a war that had casualties of 851 billion people, 91,215,660 starships some of which continent sized vessels, 14,334 planet sized orbitals, 53 planets and major moons, one ring world, and three dyson spheres. then other settings have a really hard time comparing at all. dark age of tech humanity would get curbstomped.

[@InputMiner]

Culture would beat most popular Sci-Fi settings just based on the merit of Minds being untethered, unrestrained, hyper AI. The difference in reaction and response time alone is just too great. A Mind would pick up sensor data, process the information, decide on a course of action and then act on it before a human crew member can even relay the info he's seeing to his superiors.

[@CTCParadox]

For the Culture you have to scale it down to something like "can a GSV solo the Imperium?" otherwise it's too curbstompy.

[@GMSTuatara]

Culture craft have been said to be capable of speeds up to and beyond 233,000 times the speed of light. That fight in the book took 0.11 seconds and covered billions of cubic kilometres of space

[@swimmingmide]

@@GMSTuatara Isn't that only for craft with no biological crew? Going that fast would still kill the "living" pasengers and force the craft to either back them up digitally and regrow their bodies or just let them die. I think the "Algebraist" book had gas giant planets having instant transport between them due to some gravety stuff.

[@FattyMcFox]

Arthur Dent from hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy could beat the imperium. It is highly improbable that a lone un-augmented human in a bathrobe would beat the Imperium of mankind, so he is sure to do so, because the ship he is one works by making improbable things happen on command. He likely wouldn't know he was doing it, he just bumped a switch and the Ultramarines are turned into a set of expensive figures used in a wargame he never got into but used to see all the time down at the shops. Now how improbable is that?

[@UKCrazy007]

This now my head canon for how the game of 40K came to exist. God bless Douglas Adams.

[@kaiosamatlj4031]

You also forgot about another deadly weapon the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy setting has against 40k: Vogon poetry.

[@goingblargh]

One setting I think can definitely survive in 40k would be the manga series _Blame!_ And the singular reason for that would be its setting. For those of you who don’t know, _Blame!_ takes place in a single, incomprehensibly massive city that is still continually growing. And it’s not really built for anyone either. Its geometry and layout are incomprehensible, not in some esoteric or eldritch sense of the word, but because it _just doesn’t make sense._ There are bridges extending over bottomless pits with no railings, staircases that go on for miles, only to run into a wall, there are even elevators that take days to reach the top. You might say, “The Imperium could easily conquer a single city! They could even blow it up!” However, the city in _Blame!_ is so massive that there are vast, empty caverns the size of _planets, planets the city consumed to fuel its growth._ It’s in fact estimated to be around the size of Jupiter’s orbit, so even if the Imperium recruited every single human in its armed forces to try and conquer this one city, they would still need thousands of years just to begin to explore the city’s depths.

[@sudanemamimikiki1527]

It's a big city. But all of imperiums forces would be too much...even by low estimates the imperial guard alone numbers in the trillions. You take pdf and the other military factions along that and you have potentially tens if not hundreds of trillions of soldiers.

[@poggestfrog]

So the average space hulk/hive city? (note: I just read the size of Jupiter's ORBIT and holy fuck)

[@silentnight6810]

​@@poggestfrog I feel like your average space hulk and hive city is a bit smaller then a city planet with a diameter of jupiters orbit. You could fit several dozen sun's in there. And still have room.

[@poggestfrog]

@@silentnight6810 read the part in parentheses

[@sorakh4119]

The City is too massive for the Imperium to conquer

[@grugmangaming5152]

SupCom if we ignore the warp/scrapcode would obliterate 40k. A UEF Mech Marine is the size of a Warhound titan, and those can be mass produced in three seconds by massive printing factories that can be laid down in less than a minute.

[@rahulbinov1987]

Great comparison but are you sure about scale? I remember the standard ACU was just twice the size of an ingame tree? Correct me if i’m wrong though.

[@mcmarkmarkson7115]

Yea lets ignore one of the main problems that makes it so hard to survive in 40k XD

[@myduckisonqauck7227]

​@@mcmarkmarkson7115 Chaos is only a threat if there's a massive war in heaven level conflict, or psykers start popping up in mass.

[@oliviaaaaaah1002]

SupCom commanders teleport onto planets with nothing but their 100m tall mech suit, and 20 minutes later they are launching tactical nukes, which is one of those gameplay things that gets really amusing when you think about it too much.

[@sevenclovers7]

Hell, in Supreme Commander 2 you can build a unit cannon to shoot like 12. Don’t forget the experimentals that are way stronger and don’t take more than 15min I think. Not to mention you can launch them half baked after they’ve built enough.

[@winndypops]

It is gonna sound kinda weird but I kinda like the 'grounded' strength of 40k stuff. Like yes the scale is massive, that makes sense but the on the ground strength of individuals is on a scale that we can understand and the thing to keep in mind for 40k is that it is in some ways a post apocalyptic setting, twice. The Imperial, hell every faction has not had a chance to actually develop and become more overpowered because if they took a breather for a second they'd get rolled over. A lot of crazy powerful settings had various species just vibing it out for like 12000 years or whatever, doing all that science and shit, not a luxury the 40k boys have.

[@kingalphawerewolf]

Actually a ton of stuff has just been vibing, It's also as about ungrounded as you can get, by original design. Though the current runners of the game seem unaware of that fact. Krorks sat around for so long they just vanished, eldar and humans have multiple factions who could, if not upend the game of chess, at least scorch a decent bit of the table and make everyone in the game center look over at the commotion. Who have been sitting around forever, actively doing nothing despite terrible things being done in their own backyard.

[@Firehawk376]

Except, well, here's the thing: The scale ISN'T massive. 40k is TINY. The IOM's famous million worlds is a population density lower than that of Antarctica. The galaxy has about 250 BILLION stars in it. This is why Star Wars roflstomps 40k. Star Wars has had a number of authors writing for it who understood the scales involved, and the galactic core worlds of the Republic? Double digit millions of them. That's just the core. The middle rim is way bigger than the core, and the outer rim is even bigger than that.

[@darthkek1953]

Mate, it's the far future and soldiers have plate armour and swords. It's a comedy setting.

[@dantewilliams2757]

@@Firehawk376and yet it still loses hard

[@Firehawk376]

@@dantewilliams2757 Star Wars? No it doesn't. Pound for pound, Star Wars is better than 40k, and it gets just as big. Both settings feature 20 km battleships, but if you put an Executor up against a Gloriana, my money is on the Executor. If nothing else it's definitely faster, and they both have similar firepower and durability. Or, if you wanted to be really unfair, put the Gloriana up against an Eclipse. That puts both speed and firepower firmly in Star Wars' favor.

[@andrewnewell1142]

There’s definitely more OP settings, The Culture series springs to mind

[@myduckisonqauck7227]

Dr who, Macross, gun buster, marvel, manifold, ect.

[@thomaseasley2938]

And then you have the Xeelee

[@thelordz33]

Star Wars and Star Trek mogs it

[@berilsevvalbekret772]

Downstreamers

[@melikwalker296]

​@@thelordz33Star Wars Maybe Star Trek hell no

[@Nineball459]

One universe I'd like to bring to the table is the Supreme Commander universe. A single Mech Marine, the weakest unit in the game that can be produced by a starter factory in a few seconds, is an 8 meter tall mech that can move at 300 kph and fires battleship rounds at the speed of a machine gun with perfect accuracy. Supcom doesnt have spaceships, at least not much in the way of military spaceships because Commanders can just teleport to any planet they desire within the galaxy, and then from there all they need is mass and 20 minutes to have an army that can stomp half the planet ready to go. Sure, the imperium could bombard the planet from orbit or even resort to full exterminatus (which they likely would considering by the time any ships arrived the planet would literally be impossible to assault conventionally), but then the commander will just be recalled, and all the units he made were constructed using the planet's mass, so an exterminatus would be a pure net loss for the defenders. Then the commander would just teleport to another planet and do the same thing, repeat ad nauseum. Some of the larger experimentals which can be cranked out once a Commander has a base up could literally step on smaller titans since their size got nerfed, the Galactic Colossus belonging to the Aeon is 130 meters tall. All commanders are anywhere from 35-48 meters in height and they can survive thermonuclear explosions at point blank range with minor issue (from other ACU explosions anyways). The one downside to them is a single commander can only keep track of so large a force, so multiple commanders would be needed to conquer just one planet. Then of course there's the Total Annihilation universe, which does not have this issue, with a single commander easily controlling multiple planets worth of armies due to them being either cyborgs or full robots. The TA units are significantly smaller in size but they could still very easily Von Neumman their way across the 40k galaxy in very short order, most things would be pretty powerless in stopping them.

[@SurvivorNVL]

I think the fun part for a lot of people is imagining the horror of important characters / common people in a setting like Star Wars or Star Trek, reacting to the shear brutality of one or all 40K factions bleeding over in to their universe. How a setting would have to change to meet the challenge of scale and the threat posed by any one of 40K's factions. There's a KZbin video that kind of gives a sense of what I mentioned above called "On the Nature of the Imperium of Man" which is narrated by Grand Admiral Thrawn, and it's fantastic.

[@yourgodemperorofeverything1354]

I mean, it depends. Galactic Empire deals quiet well with coming to therms with strange alien crap and dealing with them. In fact, I don't think they would be suprised by IoM actions at all. There was a planet where aliens were living evern after they were shred to pieces, and their bodie parts would start to move and attack imperial soldiers at night. Solution? Drown entire planet in bio weapons and dissolve the xenos. Extrrminatus is completly easy to understand concept, after all if you put one or two ISD's over the planet without any planetary shield you can turn into glass planet essly and it was done, death star was scary because it destroyed entire planet in one hit no matter shields, amount of strongholds etc. And they were quiet capable to do terrible deeds for less than IoM does. IoM destroys planets when they completly turn into chaos, or are overrun by orks and are.lost, or to starve cosmic horror bugs (most of the time), but Galactic Empire does that because there are terrorists on that planet. Sure, in SW strange alien crap.is mostly inside certain planets or sectors, but there are plenty of worlds in 40k that do not deal with chaos or orks on daily basic. If anything, Empire would be disgusted by religious fanaticism of the Imperium of Man, more than anything other.

[@sidecharacter7165]

Yuuzhen Vong man. Look up those books from Star Wars Legends.

[@KingOfMadCows]

Star Trek is only up to the 25th century, or 31st if you count stuff like the Temporal Wars and Discovery season 3/4. Considering how crazy fast the Federation can develop new technology, they would probably become insanely overpowered in another 37,000 years.

[@Azorees-oj5zr]

@@sidecharacter7165yeah Star Wars has seen just as much brutality as 40k, I mean the Clone Wars erased several species, cultures and left thousands of worlds dead forever. That was just a 3 year war in Star Wars, most last much longer and are typically just as, if not more devastating.

[@xenon3990]

Read raptor imperialis. It’s a very well written fanfic about the Enterprise D finding a boarding torpedo with Sigismund of all people in it and it goes into great narrative detail about how Sigismund has to get used to treks utopian setting and struggles with the absolute peacefulness and harmlessness compared to his native galaxy, while the crew of the Enterprise all have collective anxiety since they quickly figure out what Sigismund is And begin to question why something like him could exist

[@NaiyaTheTiger]

Stephan Baxter has a way of writing that I find absolutely terrifying. He writes some of the darkest and bleakest settings, into Xeelee Sequence and his other works, not as a self-indulgent edgefest, as so many works of grimdark fiction does, but as a cold calculus. ICOG isn't a monument of human cruelty and sin, the way the Imperium is, meant to be taken as parody and metaphor on how people should treat each other. The cruelty of ICOG comes out of desperation. It is the indominable human spirit of every living person giving their absolute all against a universe where they just weren't meant to play a role, and all that effort accomplishes is being a slightly more noticeable blip in the background of the true conflict. I find this writing more comparable to H.P. Lovecraft, but where Lovecraft wrote from a place of ignorance, Baxter writes from a place of knowledge. His degrees are in mathematics and engineering. His worlds aren't just grey morality, they are without morality.

[@KillerOrca]

Absolute full math autist moment

[@berilsevvalbekret772]

His concepts are amazing his writing of characters are pretty shit. The reason ICOG is a shithole is because the guy IS an edgelord when it comes to humanity. Barring silver ghosts themselves almost no character in the stories are well written and thats okay. Xeelee books are about the physics and mathematics and how cool they are. What they are NOT are character driven stories and should not be compared as such. I was cheering when the Xeelee FINALLY put an end to humanities bullshit.

[@aquila4460]

I agree with a lot, but there is no indomitable human spirit in surrendering to the darkness, especially in a Universe like the Xeelee Sequences were there is not only a better way but you are offered it. And quite frankly, I find it a bit disturbing how often brutal authoritarian regimes get fetishized as indomitable human spirit, when they are so far removed by it. The ICOG is a failed abomination that wasted resources in a stupid war, and made humanity worse because a self important asshole managed to shape our future.

[@benvacco8997]

Honestly the scariest part of battletech to me is Elementals, that’s a whole as space marine (8ft out of armor genetically modified super soldier without emotions other than pride and hate) with power armor a lascannon (medium laser) and krak missiles. They also all fly.

[@grugmangaming5152]

Not to discredit the Elementals, they are *lethal*, but isn't the laser arm a small laser rather than a medium?

[@nicolasgodines1129]

Small Pulse Laser, and that's still enough to wipe out almost an entire squad of​ non-Battle Armored infantry, so probably the size of a lascannon, with a Medium Laser being a Heavy Lascannon, and a Large Laser being a slightly larger Heavy Lascannon. Now Heavy variants of these weapons would be primary Knight weapon grade.@@grugmangaming5152

[@clan741]

@@grugmangaming5152a small laser is still something you equip on a 2 story tall mech or tank, so for an infantry to carry it around is still pretty absurd.

[@grugmangaming5152]

@@clan741 Defs, Just was doing a equipment check. Regular infantry squads tend to get augmented with Small Lasers as well from what I recall for some anti tank and mech punch

[@nihil2157]

THEY FLY NOW???

[@bizbe4465]

Honestly i would put battletech at the level of the Tau. Pretty neat, smart, decent population size, enough resources to fund a war, and strong enough weapons to hit above their weight class. But they are both horribly out classed by the sheer "fuck you" power of literally every faction.

[@AmurTiger]

Yeah, and one critical similarity. New production, albeit not every faction in Battletech manages that there's always someone cranking out new mechs and usually at least a handful of factions that produce reasonably state of the art stuff. They're not living off the fumes of some military stockpile built thousands of years ago. Also the tooth to tail ratio of the clans is kinda ridiculous and if they were able to scale up ( a perennial problem for them as they were always short on man power ) they'd be scary in a way that the Tau couldn't even manage. The largest fleet in Batteltech with around 30 or so warships was entirely supported by infrastructure based out of Lum a world of 32 million and they had the capacity to build new warships and also were key contributors to their mech and aerospace forces. If they could maintain that with a low level hive world worth of people, ~2 billion or so, we're suddenly talking about tossing more then a thousand warships around the void. Enough to ruffle any Snow Raven's feathers.

[@rpk321]

The whole Battle Tech being able to fight 40K on the same level outside of scale is really dependent on the era. And even then, it is incredibly iffy.

[@Ydrakar]

Dark age would be interesting, battletech wouldn’t win, but neither would 40k… glory to Blake!

[@iglidor]

@@Ydrakar WH40k Dark age would eat Battletech for breakfast. At that point humanity was taking full advantage of AI and progressed technologicaly to such degree that they could create black holes at will (vortex weapons), had disintegration weaponry, functional cloak fields, use limited time travel and turn stars into novas, effectively destroying everything in that system. On other side Battletech even during Star League was not dramaticaly more advanced. Not by several orders of magnitude like the WH40k Dark age vs 41M (current era). Battletech during Star League had more effective factories, more effective agriculture, able to construct stronger alloys etc. in comparsion to its later eras, but all they had were just more efficient things that they still have now. Single Star League mech will not hold up against 10 Succesion/Clan era mechs of similiar weight. Single Dark Age WH40k vehicle will vastly outperform any 10 vehicles of same category/size from 41M.

[@spartanalex9006]

@@iglidor He's referring to the Dark Age Era of BattleTech. It's one of the furthest points of the BT Timeline that we have playable rules for. You can't even debate 40k Dark Ages since we have so little information on it that we can't tell whether half the stuff in it are standard feats or exceptional examples, have no records of factions, or even have any idea of events that happened in it other than broad stroke details.

[@valletas]

Seeing people argue that the emperor of mankind can somehow win fights against characters that can destroy the entire universe is wild Like horus couldnt even destroy a planet but was able to mortally wound the emperor The emperor is strong and has probably become stronger since but he still cant do shit against some of the most powerfull characters out there

[@Lightscribe225]

He's also the dude who soloed a Ctan shard when humans were still in the Bronze age so power levels are all over the damn place with 40k.

[@valletas]

@@Lightscribe225 yeah This is usually the thing people use to prove that he could win against the demi fiend or goku and stuff but that honestly makes no sense considering how badly his fight with horus went I can only think that he lost most of his powers fighting the ctan shard and was left with only a small fraction of what he had Or warhammer is just full of plot holes...

[@Lightscribe225]

@@valletas Go with the latter. Tau crisis suits can whether bolter fire without a dent one day, then the next day bolters shred battle suit armor like it's paper. Angron is shown to be this unstoppable mountain of rage and death, but his tabletop rules lets him get bodied by an ork warboss. Problem with 40k is power levels are constantly changing to fit the narrative. Everyone and everything is only as strong as they need to be for the current story.

[@youraveragescotsman7119]

@@Lightscribe225 To be fair, using in-game stats to debate things has been a horrible idea ever since the SC "Mega Marine" thread happened on SB. Using in-game stats is a pathway to madness, unless there is no other media to use.

[@dc7981]

Level 99 Jack Frost also solos

[@lechevalier-ns2pt]

About dragonball ftl Doing some quick maths, Jupiter is 590 million kilometers from earth and it takes like 10 seconds for the namekian ship to travel from earth to Jupiter. So that is basically 59 million kilometers per second while light travels at 300 thousand kilometers per second. The namekian ship travels 196,6 times faster than light. The namekian ship takes three months to reach namek. The saiyan ship that goku used takes 6 DAYS to make the same trip. Dragon ball ftl is absolutely insane

[@XD-sc4ix]

FR dragon ball tech is bonkers

[@OnePlayer480]

​@@XD-sc4ixIt's really high up-there but everything Ki related is so absurdly powerful that the scientific (fiction) solutions usually come short. Except for a few hail Mary's that didn't work because they would have worked better against someone 3 arcs before the one it is used at.

[@XD-sc4ix]

@@OnePlayer480 eeh not really remember that android 17 and 18 are literally some of the strongest fighters in the universe alongside cell having the highest potential in the entire series

[@amargwari2431]

God Emperor of mankind when Uncle Grandpa pulls up : 😨

[@QuentinofVirginia]

I'm glad that you brought up Super Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann because as far as I'm concerned at the end of TTGL, Simon essentially becomes greater than the Chaos gods simply because of how crazy broken the idea of spiral energy is.

[@seb24789]

Green Mecha Space Magic > Everything else.

[@zoro115-s6b]

The power of massive shoulder pads is no match for the power of epic sunglasses.

[@doubleoof7907]

Pitting gurenn lagann against 40k is like the whole “indomitable human spirit vs the cruel indifferent universe”

[@QuentinofVirginia]

@@doubleoof7907 It literally is. Like the whole point of the Anti-Spirals choosing to fight Team Dai-Gurren on their own terms with a mecha was to create despair to try and stifle the human spirit. Because he realized if he tries to curbstomp them, they'd just go full throttle on spiral energy.

[@zoro115-s6b]

@@QuentinofVirginia I thought that was a really neat plot point really. If the anti-spirals just put up what seemed to be an impossible obstacle, then all that would do is make team gurren power up more. The only way to actually win against spiral energy is to make it seem like they have a chance, then snatch that chance away at the last minute to try and make them despair. You can't overpower spiral energy. You literally can't. All you can do is try and make the people using it THINK you can overpower them.

[@strategossable1366]

The RTS, Supreme Commander: Factions fight over the entirety of their galaxy, able to teleport around it in a matter of hours via gates, and when a commander mech (which is the size of an imperial titan) lands on a planet, it, and its one (1) pilot, is able to create an army of pilotless robots out of raw matter materials it finds on the planet in a matter of hours. One of the cheaper units, which you can build in the game within about 15 seconds of starting a match, is comparable in size and firepower to a dreadnought. This can be built in about 3 seconds from then on. This is not a mid or late game unit, this is the cheapest, most expendable unit in the game. Later game units which you can build at more like the 1 hour mark are the size of skyscrapers and can sweep entire battlefields with lasers, launch ICBMs, can be flying aircraft carriers that carry hundreds of planes, or be portable factories which are the size of small towns, are fully shielded, and can produce baneblade-sized tanks on the move in a matter of seconds. One single Supreme Commander Armoured command unit could land on Maccragge, and within 6 hours could have not only wiped the Ultramarines from the face of the planet, but also built enough firepower to make the planet utterly unconquerable for any faction besides through exterminatus, and then have teleported offworld to conquer somewhere else. get 100 of these commander units, and you could wipe out whole sections of the IoM.

[@papapalps2415]

They also have no spacecraft, nor any viable way to meaningfully counter or retaliate against such, meaning they lose.

[@icegemgaming1255]

@@papapalps2415Spacecraft is cannon to supcom, look at the intro cutscene for supcom 1 it shows a spacecraft traveling through a quantum gate. The reason we don't see space warfare in supcom is because is obsolete. Even the seraphim dont use spacecraft. You don't need to win a space war if you can teleport plane side from anywhere in the galaxy. Bear that in mind, space warfare is obsolete in supreme commander. Something like the UEF mavor (or the T3 artillery structures in general) could and probably did double up as anti-space defenses aswell, its probably why we see one on cappella in UEF mission 1. With this in mind and a good commander being able to get one of more up around 40 minutes or so after deployment means even if there is a fleet above a planet there could be a decent amount of time before detection (depending on planet) before you'll have to deal with orbital bombardment. Threes also tactics to deal with massive artillery barrages like cycling your shields that can be used to avoid orbital bombardments meaning anything less than planet killer could be countered. Combine this with multiple commanders and even terra could theoretically be taken. Cybrens should have a great time hiding with alot of their tech outfitted to be hidden and the UEF have air mobility with the best transports so they should be able to keep moving away from space craft. With that being said, a planet with a fleet and no way to challenge them on their own terrain will cause alot of issues and headaches but not enough that can't be outsmarted, and most ACU commanders tend to be smart. There is also good chance that at some point in supreme commander time (even if nots written down) ACUs did have schematics to build some form of interstellar buildings and units like planetary anhelation does.

[@nukclear2741]

​@@icegemgaming1255"Most ACU commanders tend to be smart." Meanwhile im sitting here being like "I SAID DEFEND OUR SKIES, WHY DID YOU GO AFTER THE ENEMY!"

[@sernoddicusthegallant6986]

Not me contructing an aeon tier 3 missile ship and once its finished it immediately blows up half my allies air base to get the one enemy scout in it.@@nukclear2741

[@Vaz44-4]

you're wrong and for the reasons you don't expect. A mech marine is the size of a WARLORD TITAN. And that's basically a scout. Good luck when Titans start rolling through or worse, imagine if a Supcom match lasted days and it was a whole planet. You would see an army composed of hundreds of Ythothas, a robot the size of the Eiffel Tower with the capacity to level a city to the ground, but it's a whole army of them, and sweeping through the skies Ahwassas, gigantic bombers spewing small nukes like it's nothing.

[@HalfTangible]

10:40 I will note that Viltrumites do have issues dealing with intense heat (and by intense I mean 'bathing in a star') so Psykers and high-end plasma weapons might have a better chance than you're giving here. That said, they're still bodying basically everything else in 40k.

[@bthsr7113]

There is firepower that could end them, but the tricky part is actually hitting them.

[@HalfTangible]

@@bthsr7113 True.

[@christiandauz3742]

Imagine Chaos Viltrumites during the Heresy

[@bthsr7113]

@@christiandauz3742 A Viltrumite who can't die and is enhanced? Yeah, that's a pile of nightmares.

[@Blacktoothoneil]

@@bthsr7113exactly, plasma bolts move around as fast as a regular bullet, viltrumites can easily dodge those, maybe if you hit one close range with a concealed melta pistol it’d hurt them pretty bad, but the other issue is their durability and healing factor, they can survive and recover from being insanely wounded, mark gets beaten half to death like every arc, and he’s healed up and back ready to fight in a couple days at the start of his career, let alone when he’s older and more powerful. Ya might get one shot off but then they’ll just kill whoever shot them and leave to go heal up, they can fly faster than light so nothing in the setting can really catch them if they decide to retreat.

[@fabiopauli420]

16:00 i dont think mods should be considered in powerscalling. If i write a homebrew that the 2nd loyalist primarch can walk up to the golden throne and resurrect big E just by touching him and also ascents him by doing so into a 6 dimensional god. That shouldnt be cannon either just cause a couple people like the story...

[@marrvynswillames4975]

In the ends, its just a question of 40K being more famous it was kinda funny seeing people arguing the custodes could beat the viltronvites because of the dark cells, as if its something they can just pull out of their pockets anytime if they didnt used them against Horus, I dont see them using against Omni-man

[@opticalduck2587]

I suppose the 3 body problem series could also body 40k, they can literally flatten 3D space into 2D. The tear drop ship, well, that’s something I don’t even know how to describe in terms of power

[@xninewxw7559]

I’ve thought about that question and the Trisolarans don’t even have FTL drives. The tear drop also went against what is basically UNSC ships so I dunno. The dual vector foil can be a problem but necrons have similar tech so I dunno.

[@opticalduck2587]

@@xninewxw7559true that the trisolarans probably couldn’t do too much, but the other races in the universe, maybe

[@Doug-Strong]

@@opticalduck2587 just transmit coordinates for a star system and watch some rando supernova the system's star(s) from lightyears away

[@fetusdeletus9266]

I will always stand by my opinion that 40k has always been and will always be a relatively big fish in a small pond like yeah it could beat the brakes off a lot of factions in different fictions like the UNSC from Halo or the Empire from Star Wars but then you toss any 40k faction against some of the bigger names like The Flood or god forbid The Forerunners or even godlike individuals like Superman or any number of names from different animes and suddenly 40K isn’t looking so hot anymore.

[@voomvoom4522]

Because if you have to go back thousands of years from the current setting to find something to defeat the Imperium, you're basically cheating. Why are the forerunners never pitted against DAOT humans or the war in heaven races?

[@BackupSix76066]

I'd love to see necrons vs forerunners lol

[@RageAgainstTheDyingOfTheLight7]

​@@BackupSix76066that would be rad or Dark age Humanity versus Forerunners or Eldar it would be cool

[@BackupSix76066]

@@RageAgainstTheDyingOfTheLight7 yeah maybe, but the war in heaven necrons had stuff like the breathe lf the gods which was able to literally suck the energy of suns FROM THE PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE like how the hell are we supposed to deal with that lol

[@KillerOrca]

Honestly, this. Then again when you have 40 years of lore to go on, things get lost and muddled