Panel Discussion - Do we need to eat plants?

Do we need to eat plants? Dr Shawn Baker, Dr Chidi Ngwaba, Dr Anthony Chaffee, Dr Hayley Wood & Patrick Holford - Chaired by Dr Campbell Murdoch
---
Filmed on Saturday 20th May 2023 at the seventh Public Health Collaboration in Sheffield. World-renowned speakers convened to share their expertise about how we can harness the power of lifestyle to help fix healthcare together.
---
Conference 2024 @ www.PHCuk.org/conference
Twitter @ / phcukorg
Facebook @ / phcukorg
Instagram @ / phcukorg
Linkedin @ / public-health-collabor...

[@realjasondaniels]

I’ve been a vegetarian, a raw vegan, a paleo, and a pescatarian. Those diets made me sicker and sicker. Since going carnivore about a month ago, my IBS is fixed, my GERD is gone (except if I overeat), my sense of smell returned, my appetite returned, my energy levels are through the roof, my brain fog is gone, my depression has lifted, my self-confidence is growing, my anxiety is nearly gone, my ability to maintain my body heat returned, my acne is gone, the plaque in my mouth is gone, my allergies are gone, my itchy skin is gone, I’m healing faster from cuts and bruises, my arthritis is improving, my fibromyalgia is improving, and I’m off 3/5 of my meds. I don’t care what plant based doctors and documentaries say, I’ve run the experiments and carnivore is the proper human diet. 🦁🥩💪

[@richardstravelingchannel2397]

Stop with your stories. All of them diets proves you have always been unhealthy. Your a lost sheep get back to your herd. WFPB is not a diet it is a lifestyle.

[@billdublewhopper3064]

I have the exact opposite reaction. Meat ruined my health

[@TheStephanieGilbert]

Yep, exactly the same story here. #meatheals

[@billdublewhopper3064]

@@TheStephanieGilbert I wish it were true. Meat ruined my health

[@NekarXenos]

​@@billdublewhopper3064"the exact opposite?" So you were carnivore for a long time, it messed up your health and now you're healthy on vegan? What diseases did you get on carnivore?

[@jodisoakenwolf1950]

Carnivore has prolonged my life, reversed type 2, reduced all auto immune associated flare ups. Out living my brain tumours. Living well with less pain on carnivore. I am at my best eating only meat salt and water. Bowel movements are no longer inflamation, bleeding, or constipation. Meat is life.

[@billdublewhopper3064]

You sound very sick

[@lionyahud]

Tens of thousands of testimonies reveal miraculous healing in carnivore diet

[@billdublewhopper3064]

@@lionyahud losing weight and not eating Doritos and donuts all day will usually help.

[@lionyahud]

@@billdublewhopper3064 are you confirming that eating Doritos will give you depression? I never use to eat Doritos. Mostly organic fruit and vegetables and fish. And very little meat

[@billdublewhopper3064]

@@lionyahud Doritos are shit. Vegetables will not give you depression. They will give you health.

[@lenkajf7816]

Hats of to doctor Chaffee, his presentation was so engaging. Some other presenters were rushing a lot, mentioning studies so fast, but he made it flow 🎉❤

[@eugene3801]

He is BRILLIANT !!!!!!!!!

[@brandinshaeffer8970]

@@eugene3801and hot 😅

[@jessie9653]

​@@eugene3801lol I could sit and listen to him all day 😊

[@chrisbrown2211]

💯

[@Thleta]

Chaffee gets better at discussion every appearance he makes. He makes things so obvious when he speaks, its like he lifting the veil better than others.

[@wellnesscanceradvocate8564]

Loved When Doctor Baker proved his point with a live audience!!!

[@benjamindorsey2058]

This is not science. It is nonsense. In fact, it’s exactly what I would expect a fraud and snake oil salesman to do. There is a long history of frauds operating based on truth by popularity. Exactly what the carnivore proponent did.

[@dylanfgarrison]

I’m just going to say it. One of the greatest benefits to being 100% carnivore is the bowel movements. No giant hard stools, no grunting, no pushing, easy as pie every time. Small and manageable. Always soft. I can’t imagine going back to what fiber made me go through.

[@jobrown8146]

Thank you for sharing your experience. This is the sort of information that is good to know but can be difficult to find.

[@mikepullman2513]

My 35 years my stomach has always been upset. Gassy. Boated. Always in pain trying to take a shit. Switching to carnivore is so simple and quick. I used to spend 30 minutes to an hour on the toilet. But since I started eating meat only I have had zero stomach issues or pain. I literally feel free.

[@jobrown8146]

@@mikepullman2513 That good to hear. Thank you.

[@timnestor3005]

My 35 years of chronic bowel disease disappeared in about three days. Carnivore for life.🔥💪♥️

[@ghost9-9ghost]

I've been Vegan for 15 years...I've enevr once had that stool experience and I eat a aLot of plants and Fibre Likely you were dehydrated or inactive.

[@critter505]

I love looking through the comments and seeing the amazing results of people going full carnivore. I have to ask the medical establishment though, at what point will the tens of thousands of anecdotes about the benefits of the carnivore diet be numerous enough for you to take it seriously?!

[@Jer0867]

It would threaten/overturn years (decades, in some cases) of everything they have spent their lives learning, and then telling patients. It would shatter & devalue all that they have held to be true. It would cause them to have to totally re-think much of what they have spent their lives doing...and they can't have that, can they?! It's hard for someone to admit that they have been fundamentally wrong about something, for many years. It hurts, to have your life's work undone and diminished.

[@swedesruleallothers]

Anecdotes can never be trusted. When there is non industry funded peer reviewed studies backing up the claims then and only then can we determine whether a carnivore diet is healthy.

[@JohnSmith-lk8cy]

Exactly! All those research studies on reversing heart disease are just plain rubbish! All the anecdotes here are a much better way of finding out which diet is best. It is about time the scientists listened to the meat eaters of youtube.

[@swedesruleallothers]

@JohnSmith-lk8cy 🤣 My grandpa smoked a pack of cigarettes a day and lived to 100. Therefore, smoking is healthy.

[@ernesthader1109]

​@@swedesruleallothers, have you asked your grandpa what theybused to eat? I've seen so many commenters from your grandpa's generation where there was less processed foods, less sugars, practically no vegetable oils and people fried their food using animal fats. Smoking is just an association and not causation for him livibg longer.

[@LENA9196VALHALLA]

The hulk doctors (Chaffe and Baker) is who I want to listen to for health advice. #carnivore changed my life.

[@ghost9-9ghost]

Baker is almost certainly on steroids of some sort.....you like taking health advice from liars?

[@jhandy4161]

@@ghost9-9ghost You seem to have overlooked all of the data offered to you and just attacked them. 🤡🤡🤡

[@Nick-gg6tg]

Neither have a steroid physique

[@annfraley-mylife]

@@ghost9-9ghostbased on….?

[@WideAwakeHuman]

@@ghost9-9ghostthe dude has been a very high level athlete his entire life and has a totally proportionate looking physique, no huge traps or delts - there’s zero reason to think he’s on steroids. Idk the guy, but he looks like someone that’s lifted heavy weights and worked his ass off for decades, not someone who hopped on sauce.

[@cyndimanka]

I agree with the anti-meet doctors about the tangible results that they are seeing but I was keto for six or more years with lots of veggies, tons, and tons of salads and vegetables and I did not heal. It wasn’t until I got them out of my diet. I wasn’t already eating the sad diet I wasn’t already eating processed foods. I was already eating the so-called health foods that they said I should eat, and they were detrimental to my health, including spices.

[@cyndimanka]

So he just actually made a point. He said seasonally. We have access to these grains that have been ultra. Processed 24 seven. You cannot compare what you found in the teeth of people before processed foods.

[@sanelaimamovic2621]

@cyndimanka Same here...that's why Im trying carnevore right now

[@forester057]

Whole food vegan improves things. Carnivore improves the things broken by the veggie toxins.

[@forester057]

Never felt better after going keto then dropped greens and all nuts (tree and peanuts). Eyes are clearer. Brain fog and low energy is gone. Plants suck.

[@billdublewhopper3064]

You ate lettuce. You missed all the rice potatoes and starches all civilizations eat for success.

[@TheStephanieGilbert]

I’m about 6.5 minutes in and just came here to say that Dr. Baker is HUGE!!!! Dr. Chaffee is big, as well, but Dr. Baker is kicking it out of the ballpark. Go carnivores!!!

[@ethanreeve9823]

Charles Poliquin was large as well, as a carnivore, while living to the age of 57.

[@mackerelgainz541]

​@@ethanreeve9823I'd rather live life to the fullest, rather than the longest. And no, they are not one in the same...

[@GaryHighFruit]

Oh shlt. THE DIET DIDN'T MAKE HIM HUGE, YOU FVCK. genitics do.

[@GaryHighFruit]

My comment was removed. I expected that. Meat-movement 'gatekeeping'(censoring info that does not fit narrative

[@pizzaearthpancakesandother2549]

Ngl, Shawn is swole af son.

[@alananderson5202]

Now that I have autoimmune disease and serious gut inflammation I can no longer be an omnivore. Carnivore is all I can do now. Carnivore with seafood. I am Norwegian after all.

[@davidryan0808]

i feel super lucky not having these issues

[@davidryan0808]

i feel super lucky not having these issues

[@jameswredfoxslaughter2913]

The fact that any other food causes you or I issues is a reality check on what we should be eating. 🧠

[@onepunchflan3071]

​@@B33Healthyyour impossible to communicate with and your reading comprehension is abysmal. Your diet is destroying your brain man eat more animal fats

[@jameswredfoxslaughter2913]

Is that not still part of healing? Nobody is "giving up" everyone is doing their best.@@B33Healthy

[@cassieoz1702]

I'm afraid 'lifestyle medicine specialist' will never rest well with me since Belinda Fettke exposed how the Seventh Day Adventist Church corrupted the term.

[@onepunchflan3071]

Exactly. The "science" is corrupted so I stick to hearing the stories of people and study what food we evolved

[@cyndimanka]

It’s like we say in the keto carnivore world don’t blame butter for what the bread did

[@jobrown8146]

I added lots of butter on top of my cooked pork for dinner last night. It was very yummy.

[@northerncoloradotransparen1454]

yummy cow lactations

[@dwbpqfpg5929]

A few days ago I ate a ribeye and dipped each bite in butter. Very decadent, I know, but so so good.

[@northerncoloradotransparen1454]

Saturated animal fats have been proven for over 100 years to cause a wide array of health issues! Diets high in saturated are associated with several health issues. They negatively impact cholesterol levels and contribute to various cardiovascular problems. 1) Saturated fats can raise low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol levels, often referred to as "bad" cholesterol. High levels of LDL cholesterol are associated with an increased risk of atherosclerosis and coronary heart disease. 2) A diet high in saturated fats is a known risk factor for cardiovascular diseases, including heart attacks and strokes. It can contribute to the development of atherosclerosis, which is the buildup of plaque in the arteries. 3) While saturated fats themselves don't significantly affect triglyceride levels, they can be part of a diet that includes excessive calories, leading to weight gain and elevated triglycerides. 4) Some studies suggest that diets high in saturated fats contribute to insulin resistance, potentially increasing the risk of type 2 diabetes. 5) High intake of saturated fats contribute to inflammation in the body, which is associated with various chronic diseases, including cardiovascular disease. 6) Diets high in saturated fats are calorie-dense, leading to weight gain and an increased risk of obesity. Obesity, in turn, is associated with numerous health problems, including heart disease, diabetes, and various cancers. Saturated fats impair the function of blood vessels, affecting their ability to dilate and regulate blood flow throughout the body. It's important to note that not all saturated fats are equal; some sources, such as those found in coconuts, avocados, and nuts and have different effects on cholesterol levels compared to others. However, in general, health experts recommend limiting the intake of animal saturated fats and replacing them with healthier fats, such as monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats found in olives, avocados, nuts and seeds. Common Sense? .@@dwbpqfpg5929

[@dwbpqfpg5929]

@@northerncoloradotransparen1454 okay.

[@Pinkorchid72]

I love how Dr. Baker shows up in workout gear like he’ll jet to the gym to get in a workout after this conference!

[@CudKidi]

He said at the start he was dressed like that because the airport lost his luggage haha

[@oliviakhwaja7175]

Unfortunately he didnt have any of his clothes as his suitcase didn't make it over

[@Pinkorchid72]

Oh that’s unfortunate! And I thought he was just owning his love of staying strong and fit!

[@22448824]

Glad to hear his suitcase was lost because I thought he looked a bit of a dick head.

[@northerncoloradotransparen1454]

Baker looks quite a bit older than his real age. If you eat dead animals it absolutely brings on premature death, aging, and disease. Common sense in my opinion.

[@cojocaru25]

Carnivore for 5 mounths best decision in my lyfe😊

[@hotbeefman69]

Hyper-carnivore since early 2023 here. I've gone from lazy and complacent to working out 3+ hours a week, in school full time (while working full time) and now I can play basketball with my son. My knee pain didn't start getting better until I stopped eating plants. 🙃

[@carlwatts1230]

A zest for exercise was awakened in me as well when I started eating plant-free (or nearly plant-free. still coffee for now.) Now I've got to make sure I dont spend too much time training whereas before i could go weeks or even months sometimes without an impulse to exert myself physoically

[@MrCiaranm]

I am 80-90% carnivore, and my knee pain went away. I had it for 20 years from my 30s. I just figured it was getting old. I can still remember it was my left knee, but no pain at all now. amazing.

[@hotbeefman69]

@@MrCiaranm ​So happy you got relief as well. This makes me so glad I'm working on it in my 30s. It's crazy what inflammation can do. Got my A1c tested yesterday and amazingly I'm not pre-diabetic despite all the red meat I eat. Don't tell the WHO. 🤭

[@hotbeefman69]

@@carlwatts1230 Yeah I've certainly tweaked my back a time or two since starting to be more active and not really thinking about overdoing it. Thankfully it just healed and came back stronger now.

[@carlwatts1230]

@@hotbeefman69 I've got to back down myself a bit now on the upper body training. Something in my bicep or the tendons is telling me. I've been focusing more on the lower body and flexibility / increasing range of motion in recent days

[@alananderson5202]

The two carnivores are big, healthy, muscular guys. The plant based are almost without muscle, fleshy looking. A no-brainer to figure out what eat and what you want to be.

[@yummymealsss]

Do you think they have normal Body mass index?

[@Engrave.Danger]

@@yummymealsss the idea of normal health metrics is flawed by all of the sick people that move the average into a sick range and so far as BMI goes, it's flawed as well because if someone were to workout and gain a bunch of muscle, even if their body fat percentage were under 10%, a BMI calculator would label them obese. The waist to height ratio or waist circumference index are considered to be better predictors for central obesity, and superior for cardiovascular risk factors.

[@jsblastoff]

🤯 I hope one day to meet an intelligent carnivore! Based on your logic. Elephants, Bulls, Stallions, Gorillas all herbivores. But you make your judgment based on looking at few bro’s addicted to steroids 🤯

[@jessebest3006]

There are also vegan bodybuilders! My wife won her ifbb pro card vegan and Ive benched over 400lbs 9 years Vegan.

[@Engrave.Danger]

@@jessebest3006 what's your monthly pea protein bill look like and are you on and APEDS or TRT?

[@vplan]

Dr. Baker and Dr. Chaffee - incredible presentation!!!

[@shopnstuff8228]

been suffering with IBD for over 10 years andhave never seen so much improvement since i cut out most veg and try to keep as close to 0 fiber as possible :)

[@richardstravelingchannel2397]

You have what is know as GUT DYSBIOSIS and are completely stumped, lost, and ignorant. Get Educated!

[@marisamarino7596]

Same

[@danielcohen24]

Awesome!

[@themightypotato3857]

you're not representative.

[@Cyclone546]

@@themightypotato3857😂

[@musiolikart]

Awesome round and no-one went hostile in this conversation! Stay away from any proceed food.

[@musiolikart]

And refined sugar...

[@ThelmaFulcher]

Including ice cream which many are addicted to.

[@marekdvorak6126]

Carnivore simply saved my life. I have tried every diet in last 15 years. Anyway the carnivore has been the game changer to my digestion issues, chronic fatique, anxiety and depression. I have been examined by so many doctores and hostely they do not really have a clue... Only one advice do not underestimate the oxalate dumping ;). It could have been easier for me if I started using lemon juice and black tea during the oxalate dumping symptoms a bit sooner. I am 9 months on carnivore.

[@Engrave.Danger]

Have you been able to stop the black tea oxalate titration yet?

[@maksymhryb1723]

Also interested regarding oxalate dumping. Do you still experience symptoms? I've 5+ month on carnivore so far. Still have huge symptoms and trying to manage it with black tea and chocolate.

[@Engrave.Danger]

@@maksymhryb1723 it depends on how compromised your gut permeability was and how many oxalates you were consuming for how long and how much your body is able to excrete each day. I'm a little over 3 years carnivore and still clearing some from a previously injured hip and my eyes, though I didn't titrate. I wanted that crap out, even if it made me feel like crap. When the dumping finally stops, consider taking inositol IP-6 before bed to help further demineralize then introduce some mineral citrates during the day. My whole body used to hurt, my joints were trash, I had neuropathy and intermittent eye pain/blurred vision. Everything's 98% better.

[@MrWhite-7]

Doctors are legal drug pushers, they couldn't care less about your health

[@MrWhite-7]

​@@maksymhryb1723look up oxalet content of teas, there's your answer

[@deniseragona2383]

Dr. Anthony Chaffee killed it!!!!! Thank you.

[@22448824]

Have you tried a carnivore diet?

[@ptegsotica5895]

killed any respect as he wouldn't shut up

[@richardstravelingchannel2397]

A true salesman he is for sure! He sold your foolish ACE! You believe in 0% financing too I bet?!?! Eh?!

[@dountoothers]

Like he killed it here?: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aXeph2OtapqeaKs

[@user-cy3rz2kt8v]

@@dountoothers epidemiology lover isn’t these comments saying the opposite when switching to carnivore their health mental health is way better I know it’s hard for vegans to accept reality sadly

[@thehoteldeveloper]

She said she can resolve depression in several months. I can resolve my depression in THREE DAYS on carnivore. Great discussion though. It was nice to see some rational vegans for a change. Everyone made some good points.

[@carlwatts1230]

Rational to a greater extent yes but what I appreciate the most about these two plant advocates is that they have manners and behave themselves with basic decency, quite a bit more than basic decency in fact. These seemed like genuinely warm-hearted folks. Basic decency and a respectful attitude is something which many vegans seem unable to express, or even feign to express. The characteristic plant-based petulant arrogance thankfully was absent from these plant-advocates. Kudos to them.

[@thehoteldeveloper]

@@carlwatts1230 Completely agree!

[@BossOfAllTrades]

@@thehoteldeveloper What I got from the presentation is if you dont suffer from immune issues when consuming plants, some may be beneficial such as the ones with certain compounds that are beneficial as medicine such as the ones with nitric oxide and what not, So a good diet aligns some where along a carnivore diet including about 10% of plants in the diet in my mind.

[@thehoteldeveloper]

@@BossOfAllTrades Yes. I think occasionally having some every once in a while is fine once you resolve all your issues. I do like berries as well. Unfortunately the sugar can cause me to lose control and over eat them. I think there is a very valid reason they are not available all year in nature.

[@forester057]

Likely being rationale just because of the audience and hoping not to get booed lol.

[@Watts378]

Basically, nobody know which study is correct. But I'll tell you, after 3 months on Carnivore, I won't go back anytime soon to plants. I can't believe how incredible I feel on this, and I have always been eating a very low carb / lots of fruit and veg diet before. If eating a meat based diet is bad for you, why is my digestion system working better ever than before? No more gas - like none! No more large smelly dumps which were at least twice a day when I ate fruit and veg. No more stomach bubbles or urges to go. I eat like a champ on Carnivore and only have 1 small bowel movement per day. No more joint pain / inflammation. More energy and mental clarity. I run further, and lift more at the gym. No bags under my eyes. Now I don't care about these studies that say Carnivore is good or bad or if plants are - I just know that I feel incredible.

[@jobrown8146]

Thank you for sharing your toilet habit on carnivore. It's helpful to hear of other people's experiences regarding this.

[@Watts378]

@@jobrown8146 Thanks Jo, it is important to hear the good, the bad, the ugly. Cheers.

[@jobrown8146]

@@Watts378 Benefits I've got: remitted diabetes, my hair is getting darker, reduced blood pressure, metabolically healthy, lost 25% of my starting weight (I now weigh what I did before I had my first child in 1985), arthritis pain not bothering me very much, better quality sleep. I'm low carb since Oct 2021 but over the last few months I've been having a lot more meat and only a few veggies. That's why I'm interested in how it affects "elimination".

[@Watts378]

@@jobrown8146 Wow those are some amazing benefits, keep it up 💪

[@jobrown8146]

@@Watts378 Thanks. I will. simply because I feel so much better. I'm so dedicated that I took my own lunch for the Christmas work lunch. A couple of diabetics mentioned that I had brought my own and I said yes, my health doesn't take a holiday.

[@westnewwest4325]

Im carnivore but the real success story in my family is my wife. Before carnivore, she fell into the calorie counting low fat BS story and was always tired, achy and brain fogged. Now she kicks ass at the gym, she has graduated from tenderloin to the fattier cuts and last night, for the first time, I caught her picking up a lamb chop up off the plate and chewing the last of the meat off the bone.....it was wonderful. She is even fitter than was she was before she converted to this lifestyle. I think it is much harder for fit women to make the jump from low calorie bird food to the proper human diet, due to so much societal BS

[@tatianesoarespereira]

Has your wife lost a lot of weight? and did she always eat fatty meats? butter and bacon too?

[@dan-qe1tb]

Yeah? I had lost 18 pounds eating less meat and counting calories. Have been going to the gym since 1995. I am never tired or achy. Your wife was probably overweight, eating a lot of junk food and getting no exercise, so, the benefits from avoiding carbs are probably imagined. All more fatty beef will do is put the both of you in an earlier grave. My doctor will be pissing herself laughing once I show her the video.

[@onepunchflan3071]

​@@B33Healthyyour making pathetic assumptions about people who have inspired and helped thousands. Your experience is valid but it doesn't invalidate the experiences of carnivores who thrived and reversed diseases currently and for thousands of years

[@TTR83]

​@@dan-qe1tbYou eat less meat now but why do you count calories?

[@dan-qe1tb]

@@TTR83 I suppose you're right about counting calories I can feel when I've overdone it and try and burn it off. I can't believe how many overweight people there are: this won't happen unless we overeat. Carbs or protein or fat can all get stored as fat cells by your body if eaten in excess.

[@CapoKabar]

Boom! Chafee strikes again!

[@rickjean63]

You can eat plants if you want to and can tolerate them but we don´t need to.

[@XeL__]

animal corpse and secretions are also un-needed or else id be dead by now

[@jbbolts]

@@XeL__ or you wouldn't be suffering with depression

[@drip369]

Exactly. Use plant foods for medicinal use, and eat meat for sustenance and survival

[@dickdyson3100]

@@XeL__ give it time.

[@DAViDD767]

​@@XeL__wrong

[@0Vegan]

Thank you for giving voice to the carnivore diet, and after 16 yrs on a vegetarian diet in the SAD church I'm so glad to have healed all my arthritis lethargy, so called allergies and gas, farting and belching by going carnivore.

[@jaxiusmusic]

That's a big jump from vegetarian to carnivore, glad to hear your feeling better.

[@richardstravelingchannel2397]

That is a tall tale. Sadly many have no idea what a vegetarian, vegan, or whole food plant based lifestyle is. Any story to make others feel better about poor choices? Eat your fruits and veggies. Oh wait my 3rd grade teacher told us that before the majority of you were born!.

[@aimeegunderson6852]

​@@richardstravelingchannel2397 Funny how when hundreds of people come forward and talk about how much a veggie and fruit free diet has increased their health others have to call them liars. When I was lots of spinach salads, veggies and a "low fat" diet I was fat, gassy, bloated, constipated and got kidney stones and joint pain. Now I eat meat, eggs and dairy, lost weight and no more digestive issues.

[@richardstravelingchannel2397]

I have learned over and over, time and again 98%are clueless about nutrition, confused 😕 about health, and sadly lost sheep. 😞 get educated just eating a few salads is not going to lose your weight, and certainly not optimal health. I have said it many times and will repeat again. There are no top tier, record setting longevity athletes consuming meat only diets. Your sadly misled and extremely confused 😕 regarding optimal health. Are you consumed with greed? Eating dead animals only leads to premature, death, disease, and aging while you continue to support a horrifying industry driven by pure profit. If want to find the crime against humanity follow the 💰 right into animal agriculture. When that is not enough and your sick, obese, and diseased not to worry big pharmaceutical has got you covered with an array of pill that come from plants.

[@richardstravelingchannel2397]

It is a guarantee that you have what is known as gut dysbiosis on your imaginary diet plan. Humans are not carnivores no matter how much denial people claim/ It is not something you feel in your fantasy, it is a test that requires a stool sample. Sadly you have no idea what optimal gut health is because you have never experienced it. There is a huge difference between diet and lifestyle. Your on a diet because you have not learned how to eat correctly, what to eat for optimal health, and what real nutrition is about. Your continue to support an extremely poor narrative that is a huge risk for all of humanity. GET A CLUE! GET EDUCATED! @@aimeegunderson6852

[@TheRandomGuyTheFarNoGameCat]

I was Vegetarian for 6 years and my health deteriorated. I was instructed by a gut Doctor to try Carnivore as I couldn't poo without a regular colonic. Now I feel incredible, my Type-2 is gone and my obesity is rapidly becoming a thing of the past. I'm happy for those people Dr Chidi helped, but it absolutely isn't for me.

[@markbailey6051]

Carnivor menu for your best health. Thank you doctor Shawn Baker. Fiber is unessential fluff. Ribeye Rules!

[@richardstravelingchannel2397]

Fiber is essential to optimal gut health and nutrition. Your confused and misled

[@markbailey6051]

@@B33Healthy 10 thousand years ago humans ate only meat because all plants would make them sick or worse. Todays plants are hybrids and are recent history and all have toxins. The human brain is very fatty and can not be fed by plants alone.

[@richardstravelingchannel2397]

Amen! So much truth in your comment. Carnivore is synonymous with denial. Truly sad how the industry has driven people to this belief. I wished I had figure it out 50 years ago vs. 12@@B33Healthy

[@richardstravelingchannel2397]

Sadly your completely misled

[@HelloKitty-pu2qq]

I used to be 80% veggie and fruits plus lean meats. I felt completely terrible. Since I moved to carnivore, I feel the best in my life.

[@2Goldens1Rott]

In my observation, the carnivores look solid and strong, plant pushers look small and frail. Just what I see, I could be wrong. I have a lot to learn

[@henrituhola]

PATRIK BABOUMIAN is weak and frail. Got it.

[@ghost9-9ghost]

There's many ways to be inadequate on a vegan diet....I've been thru it myself...I use protein supplements.....and most people assume that I do strength training when they see me.... There'd also A LOT of scientific research showing the benefits of plant foods in the diet.... Humans have been eating both for 2 million years....and before that as well likely. Why do you need this to be black and white?

[@Engrave.Danger]

If you want to get big fast a carnivore diet is inferior to a plant-based diet loaded with pea protein and roids. Eating meat or even carnivore is gonna be a lot healthier than that and loaded with bioavailable nutrition though.

[@weedylock]

a lot of meat eaters like to work out because they know eating meat is the only way to grow muscles tissue! Carbohydrates gives you mass but its 60% water retention ie glycogen

[@2Goldens1Rott]

@@ghost9-9ghost in reality and not this matrix there would be no such thing as supplements. I’m pretty sure the creator(whatever you believe in) did not say humans better build industrial machines so they can get adequate nutrition. Majority of carnivores I have studied do not recommend or advocate for supplements not to mention, the large profit margin. I’m looking for organic optimal human health. Look around seems like majority of people including myself have been surviving and not thriving. I believe the human mind has been hijacked and been misled by people with so call credentials. Again only in the matrix. When I see certifications, licenses, letters by names, experts etc. I start to ask deeper questions and am a little concerned. If all of those titles mattered, then why do we have the sickest population ever. Hmmm

[@steveherridge8965]

Great chat and both have good points, but I still can't help seeing a physically frail side vs a vibrant healthy side in these chats.

[@dorsetboronia6744]

Member of my household, carnivore for 16 months, No fibre, No constipation, soft stool, second daily bowel motion no problem. No pushing, no hard stool, no griping, perfect bowel movements. So no fibre is excellent.

[@dadbosworth6838]

Hi from North Queensland Australia thank you for sharing this debate, civilised and constructive.

[@JennifertxCarnivore]

Carnivore has healed so much for me! I started off carnivore in hopes to reverse my fibrocystic breast masses that have built up over 6 years eating half a dry skinless chicken breast piece a day with half cup of broccoli and little bit of wheat noodles. We are told don’t eat very much meat- so the world is almost vegan just about. I would eat red canbbage too- cooked it and ate cabbage about 3 times a week. That was about it. So I was mainly chicken, broccoli, and little wheat noodles. So from age 40-46 I started getting all that “aging” health issue mess- and the fibrocystic breast “disease” started and kept building up! When I hit age 46 I was done with it! The fibrocystic masses were getting me scares- and I started getting huge painful breast cysts too! One was around 2” long and 1” wide! Docs would say, “we don’t know what causes fibrocystic breasts disease” and “fibrocystic breasts is now normal because everyone is getting it” and “fibrocystic breast could turn into cancer” and “there is nothing you can do for fibrocystic breasts” and “diet doesn’t cause fibrocystic breasts!” I was gaining weight too and by summer of 2022 I hit perimenopause at age 46 and got every symptom you could think of. My joints were hurting too, no sleep at night, dizzy at times, it was ridiculous! I know it had to be diet! Little did I know that all the other health issues I had all my life, in addition to this mess listed above, was all due to diet! I went searching online and found the truth of my fibrocystic problem! Found out cruciferous veggies (broccoli, cabbage, cauliflower, brussel sprouts, and asparagus) are all cruciferous veggies that block natural iodine absorption found in foods! And if you become depleted in iodine it messes up your thyroid which controls all- even hormones! And all organs need iodine including breasts! They swell if you are deficient! And I read these cruciferous veggies can cause cancer due to lack of iodine in body since they block absorption! Bingo! We are all being told to eat cruciferous veggies, that they can prevent cancer, and to eat lots of it including broccoli!! But in fact they are causing cancer and I truly feel it is causing all the fibrocystic breast cases that have been escalating lately that we are seeing! When I post about this and ladies write back saying they too had fibrocystic breasts, I ask, “do you eat cruciferous veggies, especially broccoli” and they all have said, “YES!” I did more research and found carnivore! I Jumped right in! In 6-8 weeks I lost 45 pounds! My perimenopause reversed! In fact don’t even get PMS symptoms and my cycle is perfectly paced! And so much more reversed that I started writing it down! And yes, my fibrocystic breast masses shrank! I share my progress because I want people to see how carnivore can heal so much and most of these things are commonly healed for many, not just me! I want to help and this is how I do- by sharing. No I am not paid to do this, I just want to help people see and be aware of what carnivore can do! I do update this list as I have been on carnivore (more lion diet version) for 1 year and 4 months now. I feel this has helped so many decide if they should try carnivore. I always say go watch Dr. Baker, Dr. Chaffee, and Dr. Berry- my three most favorite doctors. They are truly amazing! I call them my carnivore doctors! ☺️ * No more perimenopause- completely reversed! *Period cycles all timed perfect with 4 week intervals.And no PMS symptoms, but only the actual menstrual cycle itself! *No more night sweats *No more waking every 2 hours at night! *It used to take me 20 minutes or longer to fall asleep at night when I would first go to bed at night- before carnivore. Now it takes like a minute or less. Haven’t noticed since I am out fast! *No more life long eczema *No more cold hands (may have been Reynold’s disease, never diagnosed.) *No more cold body temp in general! Used to feel like a reptile - only warm in texas sun. (may have been Raynaud’s disease, never diagnosed.) *No more IBS symptoms (gas, bloating, stomach pain, constipation, diarrhea) *No more feeling low energy by 12pm and zombie by 4pm *No more purple looking hands in winter (may have been Raynaud’s disease, never diagnosed.) *No more brain fog *No more arthritis that I felt in hands, knees, and hips- or elbows *used to have sore hips when sleeping on my side. No more! *Lost 45+ pounds from former baby weight and peri menopause weight. *Always had 20/20 vision with slight stigmatism- but in March doctor said my stigmatism is reversing! *Don’t sunburn as easily anymore and tan well. *Wrinkles around eyes seem to be much less. I am 47 and look like I am in early 30’s. *Gums look super healthy. Dentist seems irritated as my teeth are not dirty when cleaning every six months. Think they know they won’t make money off me. *No more sore chest from monthly periods- no swelling feeling of fullness or discomfort that prevented me from sleeping on my stomach. Now I sleep every night on my stomach! *Fibrocystic Breast issues reversing! Almost all gone after 6 years of buildup! *no cravings unless they are for meat *no more angina symptoms before a period- which started about 3 years ago. *No more feeling weak like almost passing out and dizzy around ovulation and periods when walking around. * no more fingers swelling- that started a few years ago- rings kept being tight- is pattern I noticed. One ring I had resized larger and it’s super loose now. Will have to resize smaller. *feel stronger- now lifting barbells not just hands weights. Dr. Baker said since I am 46, and 5’7” at 122lbs- need more resistance training to add more muscle weight. . So bought a 47lb barbell off Amazon and have 90 extra pounds added to it. Will continue to progress with that. *Before carnivore- i had started growing grey hairs in one of my eyebrows, few hairs at a time, but no grey in my blonde hair yet - but assumed it was coming. Now on carnivore I have had no new grey hairs growing in eye brows and still no grey hair in my natural blonde hair. And in the sun it gets super light highlights. * no more body odor! * I used to get a little anxiety with large crowds- like if attending special events- but since on carnivore I don’t get it that much. *I was a bit OCD before carnivore, but so much more relaxed so barely like that. * I was a relaxed person before, but somehow am even more relaxed and never stress about things. *Since I was a young child my sense of smell has been terrible. But not even a month in on carnivore my sense of smell has gone crazy! I smell things even far away! Amazing! *no more allergies! I was allergic to cedar and oak pollens- and mold- but since carnivore I am no longer reacting to those outdoor pollens which is amazing! * I have had no more issues from ear wax build up. Had it twice after having kids and docs would say it was a hormonal problem. Carnivore cured that too! *Veins in my arms look healthier. They were almost invisible before. *Legs no longer hurt on longer road trips or plane rides! *I used to get a popping sounds in my right shoulder when lifting weights. Was probably a pulled ligament. That is now gone! *I have been lactose intolerant since I was a kid, and I feel my nails are a bit stronger than before. They do break if I catch them on things but I feel they are getting stronger on carnivore. *My teeth look more white on carnivore. *My blood pressure has improved on carnivore. 6 years before carnivore up to starting carnivore my blood pressure was increasing. Now on carnivore it is back to normal like when I was younger. Last reading it was 100/75 which is awesome! *i used to get eye twitches in my eye lids, but that is gone. * at times when trying to fall asleep I would close my eyes and at times felt dizzy like falling feeling or spinning. But haven’t has that since I have been on carnivore for 12 months. *the skin on the heals of my feet are no longer cracked and dry! *little leak from sneezing or coughing that ladies get from estrogen dominance is gone on carnivore! Hormones balanced so no more estrogen dominance! *The top inner corner of both my larger toes have felt a little numb for years. Never had it diagnosed. But being 1 year on carnivore I no longer feel that numbness! My nerves have healed in that spot on both toes! Crazy! *My slightly receding gums behind my center bottom front teeth have rebuilt so gums all over are super healthy! I have flossed daily for years, but gums look even healthier! *my skin on my face isn’t as oily as it used to be. *My hair used to be super oily if not washed daily, but carnivore has regulated my hair so I can now go days without having to wash it- doesn’t get oily after one day like before! (Newest update added!) So there you go! ☺️ I hope this helps people on their journey to fins out what works for them! Carnivore is working for everyone that tries. Go watch Dr. Baker, Dr. Chaffee, and Dr. Berry! And go visit Kerry’s channel at Homesteadhow! We love him too! ☺️

[@kerrydesilets4226]

That's amazing!! I was wondering about dental and eye health. Those are the big ones I'm hoping to protect going forward. I'm already blind in one eye (physically damaged, not diet/health related) and the idea of various forms of vision loss because of diet terrifies me. I also want my teeth until I die, I see quite a few family members who are looking at needing dentures in their 60s and I really don't want to be like that.

[@eugene3801]

This is so very encouraging to me as I have fibrocystic breasts, I've been carnivore for a month now, already huge improvements but seriously can't wait to REVERSE my fibrocystic issues that I've had all my life... I'm 63 now. Thank you very much. God Bless

[@JennifertxCarnivore]

@@eugene3801 you are very welcome! Anyone that replies back saying they too had fibrocystic breast masses, I have to ask- did you consume cruciferous veggies like broccoli, cabbage, cauliflower, brussel sprouts, and asparagus? I truly feel that going carnivore reverses all, that plants are so damaging. And the cruciferous veggies harm the lady organs and male organs in addition to the thyroid that controls all!

[@debramoore1428]

Jennifer, 👏👏 I think your healeds are lmportant. Someone will find them. A new life is out there. Thank you.

[@22448824]

Run that by me again

[@annettestephens5337]

A very interesting discussion with plausible arguments on both sides. However, I’ve tried the low fat/ high fibre method and I became so ill over the years even without consuming ultra processed foods. Gradually switched to carnivore and will never go back to eating fibre.....ever!

[@NiekLodewijkx]

Great to see the Hulk is attending

[@trianglehat6994]

The black guy just made the stupid statement I've heard a million times: "the rich areas of China were eating meat, dairy and processed stuff". Maybe it's just the processed stuff!

[@jessicarocks1329]

Pretty much everything he said was stupid😂

[@Ded-Ede]

The doctor is correct. Metabolic disease disorders are diseases of excess. So yes rich regions get sicker than naturally living people who eat more plants and less meat.

[@hobblestv1442]

The first thing I thought was polution. Chinese cities are hellholes compared to the countryside.

[@melere777]

@@hobblestv1442 This was my thought as well. Diet is super important but there are so many factors outside of that that would contribute to those results besides quantity of meat consumed. And "vegetables" is a very broad term--what kinds of fruits and veg? Were they the same on each side?

[@ramblinrozz2242]

My mom went on a juicing diet after being diagnosed with cancer she was gone in 8 months. Many cancer patients are curing there cancer with carnivore. Sugar as in plant sugar feeds cancer.

[@mikeparker444]

I thought the same when I watched videos by Gerson and others advocating juicing as a cure for cancer. Whilst I'm sure its a great way of packing in micronutrients, its also packing in the sugar without the fibre to slow its release into the blood stream.

[@billdublewhopper3064]

Most die listening to Quackery like eating fatty meat as a cure for cancer.

[@GaryHighFruit]

Shame on you. You should be put in prison.

[@GenMEI-FM]

@@GaryHighFruit organic local produce in season is the ONLY produce that humans should eat!

[@WilliamBTCWallace]

Sugar literally damages Mitochondria which is what feeds cancer. What a horrible idea. I’m sorry than anyone recommended this to her. So sad. Sorry for your loss.

[@user-ud5sm2de4l]

Carnivore team WINS.

[@eugene3801]

Absolutely... and for good reason

[@CazalasMichele]

I am the healthiest I have ever been now that I am Carnivore, 4 months only. I will never go back to carbs, sugar and processed foods. Low glucose levels❤❤

[@deivismacas]

Great presentation from Dr Chaffee. Thank you ❤

[@dountoothers]

Almost as good as his performance in this debate: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aXeph2OtapqeaKs

[@mathewiacobbe6106]

At 1:33 - good point Anthony. Big difference in surviving vs thriving on an optimal diet

[@alananderson5202]

So many people now have gut issues which fiber only makes worse, which I know from personal experience. The IBS may have started from consuming processed food but that hardly matters now. Maybe good fiber is helpful for a healthy person which so many of us no longer are. For the inflamed gut crowd fiber is fuel for more inflamation, bleeding etc.

[@limitisillusion7]

@@B33Healthy That's the way i think about it too. I can eat anything and feel great. If you have a diverse gut microbiome from a diverse diet and various sources of fiber, you'll feel fine eating anything. I eat a lot of different fruits and raw veggies and nuts everyday. If your diet restricts you from being able to eat certain foods, your gut isn't healthy.

[@Nick-gg6tg]

Chaffee always on point. 💯

[@healthyandwellinformed]

I was born and grew up in Africa and my sister and I were teethed on wild meat biltong (jerky), and every meal contained meat. I became a vegetarian when moving to the UK as a teenager for ethical reasons after learning about factory farming in Europe and just continued into adult hood. We are biological carnivores/omnivores and this has remained my viewpoint throughout my vegetarian decades. My only animal-based foods were eggs and dairy for 33 years until 2022, and I was reasonably healthy… or so I thought. A close friend became unwell, I took to researching how to help treat cancer with nutrition. The rabbit hole ensued…vegetarian Keto/very low carb mid 2022, followed by pescatarian Keto late 2022, and now grass-fed Beef 3 or 4 times a week (from mid 2023). We source this and all our meat locally from Deersbrook Butchery and Farm shop in Shalford Green, Essex. Beautiful tasting meat, and most importantly the application of compassionate and sustainable farming practices. What most people don’t realise is that discomfort, aches, pains, ill-health conditions etc set in so insidiously over time. I did not know how unwell, and in discomfort physically I was until I just wasn’t anymore. My husband says the same. He has always been a meat eater, but loved his sweets, chocolate, soda, potatoes crisps, bread etc, he too is Keto/very low carb wholefood diet and is experiences massive health improvements since starting with me. We are both desperate for those we love to shed their ill health and experience what we have. We just don’t understand why they choose not to. 😔 I am actually ‘healthy’ now and have so much energy…my hiking poles are even in retirement, all aches and pains have ceased! Eating meat has been a difficult thing for me to do after 33 years but I am getting there, I no longer cry with every mouthful, but will not eat meat when I am not confident about the ethics or conditions of which the animals were raised and slaughtered.

[@ttalvit1e]

Thanks for sharing. I think I might have been where your husband was. And what you said about the ills going unnoticed I can agree completely. The contrast is huge, so much so that it is almost unbelievable how I could not have noticed it.

[@adamarmstrong9408]

I took see friends and family really I'll and I know for a fact if the changes there diet they would feel so much better, but they either don't believe me or they are just so addicted to sugar and processed food

[@RosellaHomecare]

@@adamarmstrong9408 Any change is difficult & most people expect that some kind of pill will make everything work. As we get older it is even more difficult.

[@opticalman6417]

even the none organic meat is better than any plant based food

[@BretAtwood]

This is a great point, I never realized how bad i felt until i healed myself with a full carnivore diet. That was even before losing the 90 pounds that I did. The effects were almost immediate.

[@sophiel5202]

Shawn Baker is huge bruh

[@davidjackson4112]

Thanks and kudos for Dr. Baker and Dr. Chaffee for their information about carnivore diet.

[@kryscsatlos3888]

Great discussion! Kudos to the organisers for being able to get engaging and rational speakers from all sides.

[@billpoole8541]

I wish more keto/carnivore doctors were in these debates. All I ever see is Dr. Chaffee, Dr. Baker, and alot of Dr. Berry...there are many more who I would love to hear from in a debate setting.

[@cyndimanka]

Excellent. if not for the carnivore diet, I would still be the miserable person I was almost 2 years ago. I suffered chronic diarrhea for 20+ years and my asthma was off the charts, eating cheese and other fermented things. My joints were inflamed before I started the carnivore diet. I don’t know what anybody else thinks or what they want to do but as for me, vegetables were inflammatory. Fruit does not really cause any issues other than if I eat it in the summer I will gain weight. The fructose is my enemy. If anybody reading this or watching this is on the fence if you have any inflammatory issues you need to get off everything and start with meat and eggs.

[@carlwatts1230]

I'd been meaning to do carnivore for a few years and finally did so in late january 2023. Not when exactly it will be but my 1 year anniversary is coming up soon. Wish I'd done it earlier. I had been keto for years and that was a giant improvement. I had been trying out Gundry style keto with lots of olive oil and avoidance of certain classes of plants but also eating lots of the approved plants. I felt pretty good on that but carnivore is without a doubt the way of eating most compatible with feeling great I've come across. I think I'll quit coffee this year. Been meaning to stop the habit or at least interrupt it for a while for quite a few months now.

[@lenorepaletta9267]

How do you do with eggs?

[@peterlongprong7521]

see... those cannibalistic hillbillies in horror movies that eat lost campers were onto something - ! rev up that chain saw and find yourself a hockey mask

[@boumahmoudmohamed900]

Carnivorous all the way ❤

[@richardstravelingchannel2397]

ignorance is bliss@@boumahmoudmohamed900

[@Gesundheit888]

Dr. Chaffee, you outdid yourself, super presentation. I will listen to that part again.

[@user-tx1ec9wb1z]

I'm carnivore on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays, Raw vegan Tuesdays and Thursdays, Fast on the Sabbath, then Cake and ice cream on Sunday's. My favorite diet so far. I call it the Schizophrenic Diet.

[@carlwatts1230]

I like the combo of Shawn Baker and Anthony Chaffee. Shawn on defense and Anthony on offense. Shawn on defense focusing on carnivore diet being sufficient and a good idea at least for some people. I think it's very hard for people to disagree with Shawn's public statements around this stuff. He makes sure not to use absolute language and to leave lots of room. He will make weaker claims so the case is stronger. It's a good defensive line to be able to fall back on. I'd say that at least as much is true as Shawn Baker states about carnivore. Anthony on offense focusing not just on the lack of necessity of plants but also on the harmful nature of plants to most animals and that there is good reason for humans at this point in genetic history to actively avoid them if one can. I also like the offensive action towards fraudulent studies. These should be called out. Anthony's claims are stronger or bigger and so more easily attacked.

[@barblacy619]

Baker had to fight to get his license back, he’s been a bit more cautious since. Chaffee never lost his license.

[@carlwatts1230]

@@barblacy619 Maybe but I don't think that's the reason. I'd think it's just a difference in temperament. Another part of his history: Baker used to serve as a link in the chain of folks between the president and nukes being fired. He's a very based and even-keeled guy. At least I'd hope they're select for that sort of person for that job in particular. He's also probably de biggest de facto ambassador for the carnivore diet and I'd suspect he feels some responsibility to remain a credible voice relative to the mainstream / orthodoxy of medicine and to the wider culture in general by sticking close to observed fact and the current state of evidence.

[@barblacy619]

@@carlwatts1230 you are correct in your assessment of his temperament and particularly with that career path. My father was a Bomarc (spelling?) missile man who served in ‘Thailand’ running covert operations in Laos and Cambodia installing radar. He died before they declassified his operation and we never heard a word. My brother who was a Cold War veteran was in a covert operation stateside also declassified by time but with his clearance found out about our father’s operation while still classified-not a word. After everything was declassified we got the story reluctantly out of my brother as he was dying of cancer. I have nothing but respect for our military and contempt for current ‘leadership’. I love to listen to Chaffee and Baker, Berry and Paul Mason. Dr Eric Westman includes too many plants for me personally but he appeals to a lot of diabetics starting from scratch. He is also like Baker in temperament. Berry and Chaffee cut from the same cloth.

[@Crushonius]

@@barblacy619 you should also listen to ben bikman he is a great scientist actually researching low carb diets as we speak brilliant man

[@tammyday9389]

When I adhered to a strict, whole food, plant-based diet, from being omnivore, for 4 months I my aching joints got worse and I was so cold all the time. In an environment where -40 C is common in winter, I needed a meat based diet to get warm again.

[@billdublewhopper3064]

Did you eat rice, potatoes and pasta?

[@tammyday9389]

@billdublewhopper3064 No. I haven't eaten any grains in years. Nor have I eaten fruit or berries. At Christmas I at broccoli, carrots, and yam.

[@tammyday9389]

@@billdublewhopper3064 I did eat bacon a few times in the past month, too.

[@billdublewhopper3064]

@@tammyday9389 not eating starches is a problem. You will never be satisfied. We are starchivores. All large successful healthy populations of people have eaten the majority of their calories from starches without exception.

[@GaryHighFruit]

@@tammyday9389 I once did fruitarian in the winter. I wasn't cold the entire time. I'd say it was just better circulation. But I'm seeing that this channel is just a front for low-carb propaganda, so I guess no one here is interested. I bet this Baker clown is one of the founders of this Public Health Collaboration.

[@Brani1974]

As a 98% carnivore for last 3 years I found this discussion frustrating... especially when that plant based doctor talked about that poor malnourished girl feeding her more plants...

[@jessicarocks1329]

Yep, it doesn't even prove that pants are good, it was just better than what she was already eating. She would have thrived on meat.

[@jessicarocks1329]

Also the black man talking about fibre. So many have cured diverticulitis with carnivore. When I eat fibre I get bowel trouble.

[@bradleybisson5938]

Yeah, I actually felt pretty bad when I heard her story. It's like she has a bias blocking her current health issues.

[@BaddestCat]

I hadn't heard about this. What an exciting panel line-up!

[@cyndimanka]

Omg love Dr Baker

[@codinginflow]

Amazing video! We need more of these fair and calm discussions between plant-based doctors and carnivore doctors!

[@craigsimmo83]

Great discussion. Lovely to see respectful exchanges of opposing views too

[@Hemebean]

Wonderful discussion where everyone seemed to searching for the correct answer rather attacking each other. More of this!

[@ktermalkut8332]

Thank you very much for your video. May The LORD GOD The LORD JESUS Bless you abundantly!

[@reggiedunlop2222]

Praise Lord Jesus 🙏🏼

[@alexandrafreed4172]

My digestive system has truly and genuinely never known peace the way it does on carnivore .. 2 and a half years in. Any time i attempt going off it my stomach kills me, my hormones are off and periods are horrible, and my skin looks bad, its just not worth it for me. Never going off carnivore. Meat eggs grass fed butter and a little bit of cheese is what personally works for me.

[@northerncoloradotransparen1454]

Gut Dysbiosis

[@JonLG490]

you have a gut imbalance if you cant go off carnivore without a negative reaction. carnivore isn't addressing the root cause of your issues, its simply suppressing it. Slowly and properly reincorporating plant foods back into your diet is the only way to address the root cause by training and rebuilding your gut microbiome.

[@vandpiben]

I had the same. Cut out all corn products. Potatoes and root vegetables are no issue

[@northerncoloradotransparen1454]

All I eat is potatoes, root vegetables, and fruits. No meat in 39 years! Completely vegan for nearly 12 years. As close to whole foods as I can be. AH meat is not a whole food, highly processed, and carcinogenic. Common Sense? @@vandpiben

[@northerncoloradotransparen1454]

Peace for all of humanity begins on our dinner plate

[@paulinedawber3306]

Dr. Antony Chafee and Dr. Shawn Baker, simply stars ✨🙏🙏

[@n8doc]

At least these doctors are smart enough to agree on no need for statins. Carnivore for the win

[@gofityourself1]

So, my wacky theory as to why a "plant based" works short term for weight loss, diabetes control, and energy levels. The plants you are eating are so devoid of "bioavailable" nutrients that you are essentially fasting. Your body IS living off of animal fat (your own gut) but, you are simply eating nutrient-less fiber and antinutrients, so it's like you aren't eating anything. After a few months all the toxins start catching up to you and you quit and switch to carnivore to fix everything.

[@ghost9-9ghost]

I've been vegan for 15 years....and almost everything I eat is non-refined...I don't eat bread or crackers or cookies... How come I can still shovel heavy snow faster than my 18 year old neighbour despite that HE goes to the gym 5 days a week and eats meat?

[@Engrave.Danger]

@@ghost9-9ghost have you considered that your kid neighbor doesn't really care about his technique and performance? Most of the people I see are pretty mopey and unmotivated. Humans can certainly survive on plants short term or plants and supplements long-term. Whether it's ideal to thrive or not is more the question.

[@dawnwin8257]

​@ghost9-9ghost does he know you are competing? 😂

[@dawnwin8257]

​@ghost9-9ghost is he a carnivore or is he eating Standard American diet?

[@gofityourself1]

@ghost9-9ghost You are failing to activate the "Randle Cycle", an inflammation risk that is activated when carbs and fat are eaten together. You are surviving off your own body fat, as mentioned above. However, with the lack of (bioavailable) amino acids you are ingesting, the loss of muscle will catch up sooner or later. No offense, just facts.

[@robertoperaza2683]

Missing Dr. Paul Mason in this panel

[@toni4729]

Dr. Zoe Harcombe as well would have been fun.

[@alananderson5202]

A rainbow of foods has only been possible for a few years. Historically, food was scarce, limited, and simple. And the most nutrient dense is animal and fish meat.

[@ghost9-9ghost]

Humans have been farming and cultivating a rainbow of food varieties for 15,000 years....that's more than a "few"..... And....there's plenty of colour in nature as well....do you think humans just invented colorful food from nothing? Get an education...read some actual books....don't just listen to biased youtubers

[@alancameron6937]

​@@ghost9-9ghost15,000 years is a mere blip in terms of human existence ... Check out early man cave paintings ..... I don't see any carrot eaters

[@victoriar9728]

I Used to eat whole plant based, most of my life. then I lost my gallbladder and developed a lot of ailments like arthritis, aches and pains that i thought was attributed to ageing. but when I found out about carnivore diet, I tried it as a last resort because i tried all the diets out there. And I reversed all my ailments - and as a bonus, lost weight and regained my health. lost the arthritis, aches and pains, etc. I am eating plant-eating animals now - cows, goat, sheep those sort. so i am indirectly vegetarian coz I eat plant-eating animals. this is all the "evidence" I need. Hurray for Dr Shawn Baker and Dr Anthony Chaffee!!! great presentation.

[@cyndimanka]

Another problem I have with these plant pushers is my father-in-law who had high cholesterol for many years and was told to eat low fat. Had a triple bypass 17 years ago. He has since had three stents put in. He ate meat like anybody else, but had a high carbohydrate diet, when he had his surgery, he told me that his surgeons told him that it was the carbohydrates. Yes, he ate vegetables and fruit but his diet was perfectly normal except for a lot of carbohydrates and no fat.

[@vandpiben]

If you cut out bread and refined carbs its hard to be high carb. Traditional Foods make you satiated way faster

[@jeltoninc.8542]

Bread makes me 💤

[@vandpiben]

@@jeltoninc.8542 thats the insulin spike causing you to get tired

[@annalancaster9357]

Dr. Anthony Chaffee and Dr. Shaun Baker, out numbered but shined bright with rapid facts.

[@mikereuther690]

fantastic panel, really enjoyed the discussion. I actually learned a lot.

[@ScepticalWoman]

Watching this video whilst eating a ribeye 👍😄

[@khunmikeon858]

I will be doing exactly the same in 20 hours.. after I finish my current 72 hour intermittent fasting. 😀

[@keenansmith3418]

Same!

[@22448824]

I don’t like eating dead animals. But my health comes first.

[@AlsoLizard]

Isn't it kinda telling how Dr. Baker and Dr. Chaffee are the only 2 up their with bodies that look better than most people in their prime? But the plant enthusiasts are actually quite scrawny im comparison. I myself am now feeling better at the age of 35 than I ever felt in my 20s on a pure carnivore diet. It's hard to believe that plants are really that necessary when my health has been drastically better just eating animal products. Beef, butter, bacon, and eggs forever.

[@dountoothers]

Yeah, steroids and plastic surgery are marvels.

[@AlsoLizard]

@@dountoothers you have proof of that?

[@dountoothers]

@@AlsoLizardJust some subjective observations. I do have solid evidence though that he’s a quack, and will likely kill people with his advice - if he hasn’t already.

[@Primalchico]

So what, being muscular isn’t a signal of physical health. Look at all the bodybuilders thAt die young from heart attacks and strokes. On the inside their bodies are suffering. I’m not saying that the two doctors aren’t healthy though. They very well could be. Just saying that having muscles does not mean you are healthy

[@dountoothers]

Odds are he'll drop dead fairly soon -- although I take no pleasure in saying that. @@Primalchico

[@ktcarl]

I'm glad Dr. pointed out that fiber isn't essential. As far as humans are concerned there are essential amino acids and essential fats. There are no essential carbohydrates.

[@kevinsmith5318]

You should have invited Dr. Georgie Ede to join the panel.

[@elizabethlepla6714]

She gave a presentation and took part in an earlier panel at same conference. Excellent! Check it out!

[@clintcarter]

Baker and Chaffee…my brothers from another mother. 🥩💪🤘

[@sciencebehindthehype8136]

Never seen many carnivores turning vegans again

[@XeL__]

and the one that dont die of cluged arteries cant go vegan if dead

[@MrEric0576]

Excellent discussion. 👏

[@ttalvit1e]

I have been very heavily meat consuming for a long time Also a lot of bread, dairy, fruit, vegetables. Using intermittent fasting often. And it was working, although I was really easily eating a lot of bread and ice cream etc. And it showed in the mirror fast. What I have now noticed after doing carnivore for only couple of weeks, is that all the positives of IF seem to be there but enhanced. Energy is high from wake up to bed time. I'm not sore after training. I seem to be able to keep on going as long as needed when training or doing physical labor. My mind is clear and I seem to be able to hold on to things better. Hard to explain the feeling. And basically no hunger.

[@cynthiadavis176]

I have to say though, unless a child had been consuming a lot of sugar , I have never ever seen one turn down meat for plants!

[@jessicarocks1329]

My kids love fruits but the only veg they like are peas, carrots & broccoli. I never made them eat stuff the didn't want. The only times they don't like meat is if it's chewy.

[@GaryHighFruit]

Cooked, sure. But there's a thing called "The terrible 2's". Parents feeding their 2 year-olds notice it's hard introducing meat. And there's a saying: Give a baby a rabbit and a piece of fruit. And see which one the baby eats.

[@SkeenDogger]

Went vegan for about a year and I got fat plus lost a lot of muscle. I never really ever felt great and I started having dreams of food with meat. Now I am back being an omnivore but starting Monday I'm going to be a full blown carnivore. I just bought $100 worth of beef and I'm super excited to start this journey and see if can help me with a couple problems I have.

[@jonathanjones2435]

A billion Japanese ate a traditional whole foods, unprocessed omnivore diet of plants and animals and were fine. We're all messed up because of antibiotics, pesticides, microplastics, lack of sunshine, stress, lack of exercise, lack of socialization, lack of purpose, lack of self esteem, lack of minerals, industrial toxins, drugs, etc.

[@denisecatlett7203]

Yes, exactly! It’s not just what you eat. It’s all the crap. I love veggies, not a huge grain fan, I like a little starch (sweet potato, a little rice) and moderate meat. I could not imagine eating just meat, the thought makes me want to vomit.

[@Mauitaoist]

Well because you're maladapted to an improper diet for a human being it's logical that thinking about eating a normal healthy diet that's meant for a human would make you sick because the gut biome that you have is not natural ​@@denisecatlett7203

[@mohammedrehman8306]

Dr Chafee killed it.

[@doddsalfa]

Usually with nonsense and bro science

[@bradleybisson5938]

​@@doddsalfaHe literally supplied by far the most studies, analytical data, anthropological knowledge of anyone on the stage.

[@dahof2789]

Interesting how there are almost no "eating plants made me healthier" comments.

[@shanerichard6000]

Anthony top notch .....meet up with Dr. Georgia Ede.....develop more protocols ....appreciate the studies presented.

[@TheSusu125]

I love looking at Doctor Baker's body. What a beautiful build. The vegans never look this healthy or attractive. They seem to mostly have thin legs and arms and look far older than they are.

[@EarmuffHugger]

When yolks are runny life is sunny ✌️😁👍

[@jobrown8146]

I prefer mine mixed in with the whites and cooked firm.

[@cmorrison5466]

❤ 🥚🍳Yep! 🍳🥚❤

[@JennifertxCarnivore]

Dr. Baker and Dr. Chaffee, excellent job. They work hard to heal human kind around the world from the false info we have been told. They follow the science! Any people supporting eating heavy plant based on this panel has their own agenda- keep everyone sick and they are paid by big plant food industry to say plants are good when in fact they are toxic!

[@Engrave.Danger]

I 100% believe that a plant-based diet can heal the damage created by a standard American diet but I also believe that a meat-based diet would be ideal for repairing the damage done by the plant-based diet. Why not save some time and cut out the middle step?

[@BossOfAllTrades]

@@Engrave.Danger good one

[@dountoothers]

a voice of reason:@@Engrave.Danger

[@dountoothers]

Did you see Chaffee defend his diet here? Amazing stuff: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aXeph2OtapqeaKs

[@breannajoy]

Eliminating fiber from my diet completely eradicated my lifelong mental health issues. I went from being bedridden to being full of energy, pain free and thriving. I’m so grateful I found carnivore. I was vegetarian, raw vegan, whole food omnivore and none of those ways of eating felt as satiating as fatty ruminant meat.

[@artimuscoffee8921]

Shawn ! YOU DA MAN !!! Walking into the Lions Den - you are my freakin hero pal 😂😂😂

[@dickdyson3100]

Look for three years now I have ate my meat and smoked my greens and I feel amazing at 40 years. Lost 60lbs and made big gains.

[@m1stern00by]

Smoked his greens... Like a real man fuck yeah bro me too later tonight

[@oscarsh2909]

So wait are you plan base or... I don't know, you eat smoked broccoli and not smoked meat?

[@dickdyson3100]

@@oscarsh2909 I smoke weed and eat tons of beef and eggs.

[@dickdyson3100]

I smoke my meat at times. It's BBQ every day.

[@oscarsh2909]

@@dickdyson3100I was just joking, I get you. Nice Omnivore diet 😂

[@AKMcF]

Great discussion.

[@beardumaw24]

Ill tell you what every animal based foods eater looks way healthier and stronger than the vegetarians i see, full stop ! I was an organic vegetarian for mamy years "10+ years", and towards the end i was getting weak and sick. After i switched to a mostly whole foods animal based diet including lots of pasture raised beef, wild caught fish, fermented foods, olives, avocados some veggies and i was healthier and stronger within a few months, now after 3 years on mostly animal based diet i feel fantastic ! And blood work is great, strong and healthy now. Fact. Now any diet that includes prossessed foods will make you sick and unhealthy. Fact .

[@scottywills124]

Fantastic panel. As for the anecdotal stories I tend to tune out for obvious reasons. But to my surprise that didn't derail the Debate at any point. 2 solid hours. Great stuff

[@magicf7076]

Of course we are dominant carnivore. We have a topical carnivorous digestive system. However we can also handle a small amount of seasonal fruits as well.

[@LittleRadicalThinker]

We don’t need plants, but we can eat a very modest amount of plants if it doesn’t trigger anything. Essentially, we can just spice our meats, but more than that it’s a problem.

[@mikepullman2513]

Can you moderately shoot up heroin if it doesn't kill you or make you feel bad?

[@whatabouttheearth]

The Carnivore diet is absolute bullshit (probably being pushed by the meat industry). Homo sapiens evolved as omnivores, we have always been omnivores since way before our genus evolved, it is healthier to eath both meat and plants, and less healthy to eat only plants or only meat. At least veganism is usually based off of a morality against any harm to animals, the carnivore diet is just a bullshit reactionary fad.

[@JolicoeurAbear]

I eat nothing but red meat, and eggs and some fermented plants

[@ghost9-9ghost]

Ive eaten exclusively plants for 15 years....way more than "spices" How come I'm still here?

[@LittleRadicalThinker]

@@ghost9-9ghost Ya, why? I heard some people survived on instant noodles for sometime. Optimal vs survival, you can survive on something, it has nothing to do with optimal. The world has been running on coals and petroleum products for a century, how come the world hasn’t turned into hellish Venus? There is a buffer that you can survive bad diet before you get detrimental consequences. Everything in biology in life built upon all kinds of buffers. The mechanisms are different, but everything has a buffer so that we can survive and adapt. Why can you survive on blood glucose spikes without losing consciousness? Your body has buffers to deal with blood glucose spikes. Abusing your body build in buffers will eventually lead to detrimental consequences. 15 years, so you are depleting your body’s resources to buffer yourself against something. Consequences will come soon then with 15 years of abusing your body. Bone fractures, less muscle strength, malfunctioning brain, more colds/sicknesses than normal, faster than usual aging, you will be attacked by all kinds of things.

[@kevinsmith5318]

Ever wondered why caveman drawings on cave walls were always of animals and not plants?

[@MmartinL]

You think this is a factor in diet quality?

[@richardstravelingchannel2397]

New study released! Animal fats are plugging their brains.@@MmartinL

[@richardstravelingchannel2397]

Ever wonder why science has advanced and evolved to where it is today? There is a huge difference between those surviving thousands of years ago to those thriving today. Ever wonder why there are no professional athletes that set records, excel in their respective sports, and have a history of longevity? There are so many top tier vegan athletes it would be an arduous task to list them all. Care to compare lists? Get a clue your a lost little sheep displaced from the herd!

[@notanymore9471]

@@MmartinLit shows that meat has always been the center of our diets.

[@MmartinL]

@@notanymore9471 It doesn't. It means that hunting was a special event more likely.

[@LowCarbLowDrama]

Plant based has been our diet for 5 decades, and it has killed enough people prematurely.

[@markcampbell6249]

The vast majority of the calories consumed on a global basis are derived from plant based sources and the world has never been fatter and sicker. The health benefits aren't being seen

[@henrituhola]

Where do oreos grow?

[@ghost9-9ghost]

Incorrect you fool....bread and snacks and candies aren't foods.... You're conflating....the mindless Vegans do this too...they say that most is bad because pizza and McDonald's. Humans have been eating both plants and animals for millions of years...

[@Engrave.Danger]

​@@henrituholathey're not a whole food but they're certainly vegan. 70% of the grocery store is cheap ultra-processed plants matter. Mainly fat and carbohydrate without the nutrients.

[@henrituhola]

@@Engrave.Danger If you take fiber out or add saturated fat, it ceases to be a vegetable. Low fiber kills people.